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Belgien auf dem Weg zum Narco-Staat? Brüssels Bürgermeister und N-VA in „The Ring“
Brüssel und Antwerpen erleben mehr Schusswechsel und Revierkämpfe im Drogengeschäft. Verliert Belgien die Kontrolle? In dieser Sendung diskutieren Brüssels Bürgermeister Philippe Close und Oppositionspolitiker Mathias Vanden Borre.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/07/10/belgien-auf-dem-weg-zum-narco-staat-politiker-streiten-in-the-ring
Abonnieren Sie! Euronews gibt es in 12 Sprachen.
Brüssel und Antwerpen erleben mehr Schusswechsel und Revierkämpfe im Drogengeschäft. Verliert Belgien die Kontrolle? In dieser Sendung diskutieren Brüssels Bürgermeister Philippe Close und Oppositionspolitiker Mathias Vanden Borre.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/07/10/belgien-auf-dem-weg-zum-narco-staat-politiker-streiten-in-the-ring
Abonnieren Sie! Euronews gibt es in 12 Sprachen.
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NewsTranskript
00:08Hallo und willkommen zu The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
00:11Today, broadcasting from our studio in Brussels, I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:15Thank you for joining us.
00:17On The Ring, our debaters go face-to-face on some of the biggest issues of the day.
00:22Today, on this special edition from the European Capital,
00:25we want to talk about a big problem in Belgium, but not only there.
00:29Drugs, crime, and what to do about it.
00:32Luis Albertos has more.
00:37Belgium's drug problem is centered around one word.
00:41Antwerp.
00:44It's home to Europe's second biggest port,
00:47one of the continent's main entry points for drugs from Latin America.
00:52Last year, Belgian authorities seized 55 tons of cocaine here,
00:56but officials admit that much larger quantities likely get through,
01:00often in hidden shipments of bananas, frozen food, or timber.
01:05The problem has become a national security issue.
01:08Drug-related violence has spiked in Antwerp and Brussels,
01:12and gangs are even infiltrating parts of public administration
01:15through bribery and intimidation.
01:19Has Belgium evolved into a narco-state,
01:22as one senior Antwerp judge warned?
01:24Are the many measures taken on a national and local level having any effect?
01:32Well, a lot to unpack here for our contenders, and here they are.
01:38Philippe Clos, the mayor of the city of Brussels for nine years.
01:42This politician from the French-speaking Socialist Party
01:45takes a dual-track approach to drug-related problems,
01:48being firm on trafficking while addressing the social issues.
01:51He champions supervised drug consumption centers,
01:54saying these offer solution to tackling the drug problem in Brussels.
01:58Taking tough and effective action against dealers alone is not enough.
02:02We must also continue to treat drug addiction as a genuine public health issue, he says.
02:08Matthias Vandenbohrre, a Brussels Member of Parliament for the Flemish National Party NVA.
02:13He's a former city councilor, primarily responsible for home affairs, including security.
02:18According to him, his love for Brussels is great,
02:21which is why solving issues like drug trafficking is so close to his heart.
02:25He believes breaking the business model of criminal organizations is essential in this fight.
02:30By focusing on tracing, freezing and confiscating criminally acquired assets,
02:34we make organized crime less lucrative and dismantle the financial structures, he says.
02:41So, let me welcome to the ring Philippe Clos and Matthias Vandenbohrre.
02:46Great to have you here, good to see you.
02:48Are you ready?
02:49Yes, ready.
02:50Perfect.
02:50So, certain Brussels neighborhoods have seen drug-related violence,
02:55including shootings, in which bystanders have been injured.
02:59Who carries the greatest responsibility for this situation, Mr. Mayor?
03:03Well, first of all, it's always the mayor and the public authority.
03:06We need to give peace in every neighborhood.
03:09But, first of all, to take the responsibilities for very important for a politician.
03:13And after, we need to find some solution and also to learn about the cause.
03:19Why so many people using drugs?
03:22Why there are so many traffics in the street?
03:24And it's true that in Brussels we are regarding that, not only in Brussels, but for all the Belgian territory.
03:31Right.
03:32Is Brussels still a safe city?
03:34Last year, there were, I think, almost 100 shootings, which makes Brussels one of the top three cities with the
03:41most gun violence in Europe.
03:43Marseille, Napoli, and then you have Brussels, which is very alarming, of course.
03:48And this gun violence is really increasing the last few years.
03:51And for me, I think there's still a lack of urgency in Brussels itself, from maybe the mayors, but also
04:00on the regional level, to have unified, strong response.
04:03Also, this year, we see over 30 shootings already happening this year.
04:07So, there is, I think, more needs to be done, of course, yes.
04:11On what level?
04:12It's a local level, there's a federal level, because the drugs come through the big ports.
04:16Yeah, which is one of the biggest assets in Belgium, is all ports in Antwerp.
04:20It's true that for the Belgian economy, it's so important, but it's also the principal default, because 60% of
04:27the drugs, cocaine, who comes in the European field, come from the port of Antwerp.
04:32Then we need also to regard what we can do together to shoot this problem together.
04:38And I always propose also that the Brussels Police Department help the colleagues of Antwerp to help that, because if
04:45the cocaine comes in our territory, we know that they are in the street of Brussels a few days after.
04:51Still, drug-related crime and shootings have become routine.
04:56You just mentioned the numbers.
04:58At what point do politicians have to admit that policy has failed?
05:05But first of all, for me, it's a real problem, because we have this sort of impress that it's only
05:10the police department and justice who can solve this problem.
05:14We are always a problem to speak about health, and why so many people are using drugs.
05:19In the past, it's, for example, for heroin, these people, very poor area, we're using that.
05:24But no, the cocaine is everywhere, in every works, in every culture of the society.
05:29There are so many people using drugs, and it's not only the people who are poor with a disease problem,
05:35health problem, mental problem.
05:37And I think we need to work very strong against the drug traffics, but at the same time, to understand
05:44why so many people from our population are using drugs.
05:48And how we can find an issue to help these people to go out of the drugs addiction.
05:54What is the most urgent thing here? Is it the social issue, the social aspect? Is it the crime aspect?
06:00Of course, you need to work on all levels, of course.
06:03You need to have a strong, integrated government to attack these problems.
06:07I think this is partly what's lacking also in Brussels.
06:10The organization of government is very fragmented.
06:12You have 19 mayors. We're standing here with Philippe Close, one of the 19 mayors.
06:16But maybe all of these 19 mayors are not really agreeing on the measures that should be taken.
06:22And to have a unified, strong response, of course, you need to have this one vision of how to tackle
06:29these problems socially,
06:31but also attack these problems of gun violence.
06:34And for me, this is what is lacking a bit in Brussels, is the structure of Brussels itself as a
06:39capital region is very fragmented.
06:42And which makes response also very fragmented.
06:45So if one thing needs to happen, is that you have to unify, strong response is necessary.
06:51Speaking of unifying, there are six police bodies in the city.
06:58It's finished.
06:59It's finished. There's going to be one.
07:02Is that a measure that will help increase the security for Brussels?
07:07Yes. But if you take, for example, our colleague from Antwerp, this is only one police department,
07:12only one mayor, will become now our prime minister.
07:15And you know that all the drugs come from the port of Antwerp.
07:19Then, you know, unified is maybe one of the options.
07:22But the best option, I repeat, is first of all, collaboration between the different services on the whole Europe territories.
07:29Look what it happens in Le Havre, for example.
07:32The drugs coming from first from Rotterdam, then Antwerp, non Le Havre, and you talk about Marseille.
07:39And also, I repeat, only work with the police department and justice and not with the health department.
07:45And I have always impressed that the people are afraid to speak about health and the mental health problem of
07:51a part of our population.
07:52For me, it's impossible to win in this fight.
07:55Yeah. I mean, we come to this aspect later.
07:58Is Belgium spending enough on police or is it just spending badly?
08:04Well, police needs to be funded on different levels.
08:07You have the local police, which is mostly funded by the local authorities.
08:12And this we see in Brussels, maybe Brussels of City or Brussels is not a bad example, but there are
08:17other communities, municipalities, with mayors,
08:20who are really lacking the proper funding of police.
08:24We see that the areas where the problems are the greatest now, in the south of Brussels, there is a
08:30lack of 600 to 800 police officers in the field.
08:34Of course, this is a lack of funding, which firstly needs to be addressed on the local level.
08:38And then you need the help, of course, of the federal level as well, with the federal police and federal
08:43investigative police, federal structures, which needs to be reinforced as well.
08:47But for me, one of the biggest challenges, of course, is to integrate the police on the Brussels level.
08:53Now this is going to happen.
08:55This is a reform taking place.
08:56But then, of course, you need to adjust the budgets as well.
09:00I think the local level, the regional level, need to invest more in safety issues, safety measurements.
09:07I think this needs to be a priority.
09:09You know that now, since a few days, we have only one police department for Brussels, with among 7,000
09:16police agents.
09:18But around Brussels, just 100 meters at the border of Brussels, there are some police departments of 50 police agents.
09:27It's ridiculous.
09:28I propose that this police department, around Brussels, work with us in the same zone.
09:34Because the border of the city, for the drug traffic, this is nonsense.
09:38Of course.
09:38And more collaboration.
09:39Federal level for all the big inquiries.
09:42And the local level with more integrated policy departments.
09:47But I know that in Brussels and Belgium, there are always people who resist to work with Brussels.
09:52It's very strange because we are the other assets of this country, Brussels.
09:57Like I speak about the port of Antwerp.
10:00And I'm sure that the more we integrate it, the more we work together, it's better for our population.
10:05Marius, are you resisting working with Brussels?
10:07I think it's a bit contradictory.
10:10Brussels never really wants to integrate their own police force.
10:14And now they're asking to integrate other police forces.
10:16I think the main challenge right now is to integrate and have a fully operational police force for the whole
10:25of Brussels
10:25with unified policies regarding drug trafficking and gun violence, etc.
10:30This is a major challenge right now for Brussels.
10:33And I urge the mayor, because he will be head of this police force, to really take up this responsibility
10:39and to have a unified response.
10:41And then, of course, you need to cooperate also with Barthe Weaver.
10:45He was also mentioned, our prime minister, because he acknowledges the problem.
10:49As a mayor of Antwerp, but also as a prime minister, he's clearly stating that he's almost becoming an existential
10:56threat,
10:57the gun violence and the drugs trade.
10:59And he's really trying to, on a national level, on an international level, putting this higher on the agenda.
11:04And in this way, I hope we can cooperate.
11:07Okay, quick response.
11:08But quick response, I repeat, we need to work also about public health.
11:12I repeat, only police department and justice department is not enough.
11:16I think in Europe we have a good example is what it happens in Portugal.
11:20I have meeting with Antonio Costa, our president of the council, the European council,
11:24to say, okay, how can we also manage this so huge challenge?
11:31And I repeat, so many people are using drugs.
11:33And why are they using drugs?
11:35And we have also the expertise of a lot of medics, psychologists, all the people who try to help the
11:41politics
11:41to build another policy about drugs.
11:44And it's not a debate about the legalization and all this motto that if you want to talk about health,
11:50it's because you want legalization.
11:52You know, I want to find an issue.
11:54And also when I speak with the police department, they say, okay, we are police agents,
11:58and the justice department does the same.
12:00We can fight against drug traffic.
12:01But to convince all the people to stop with drugs is another question.
12:06It is not the police department with the solution.
12:08I need to stop you here.
12:09Thank you very much for this first round.
12:11I think we're just getting warmed up here.
12:14And now it's time for gloves off.
12:20In this segment, we want our guests to ask each other questions and challenge each other directly.
12:27I'm going to start with Matthias.
12:29Do you have a question for the mayor?
12:31Uh, many questions.
12:35But can you, for example, name one policy which you implemented yourself,
12:40which helped the security of our neighborhoods here in Brussels?
12:43Yeah, for example, we have a lot of problems of mental disease in Brussels, in the field.
12:49And the justice said, okay, these people are drug addicts, but it's not regarding the justice.
12:55That we call the EMUT program.
12:57We build it with the federal government.
12:59And the police department said, we are not psychologists.
13:02And the goal is to also say that the police department that we reinforce against the drugs traffic and the
13:09drugs traffickers first.
13:11But for the people who are in drugs addiction, there are another solution.
13:16And we work with the different hospitals of the city to link police department and health department.
13:23It's, for me, very, very important always to do this sort of cross-border between the different public services.
13:29Okay, your question to your opponent?
13:33I think, Matthias, you know, that collaboration and work together is maybe the only issue.
13:40And it's true that I'm a little bit provocative when I say that, okay, we can do a big police
13:46department with the border outside of Brussels.
13:49But I think that you have a special role, your party, with all this municipality at the border of Brussels,
13:55to convince them, okay, one police department I know is very difficult, but to integrate a sort of task force
14:02together, to work together for the welfare of the population.
14:07Yes, I think this is on a federal level, there's now projects being formed to unify police zones.
14:15And as you know, it's voluntarily.
14:17So I think, except for Brussels, of course, which is implemented.
14:22But I think this is the challenges that some communities are facing right now to fill their annually budgets for
14:28the police force.
14:29And I think this is an exercise that will happen in the next few years.
14:33And how exactly, which forms, which zones will be unified, I don't know.
14:38Of course, this is for the mayors and the local level to decide.
14:41But I think this evolution will take place.
14:43Yes.
14:44Okay, question for him.
14:46Another question maybe is, how do you see the further cooperation with your other mayors?
14:50Of course, you're one of the 19 mayors.
14:53You also have a minister-president.
14:54And how do you see this to better unify, to have a stronger response as a whole, with your cooperation
15:04with the other mayors and minister-presidents?
15:07I think all the mayors are very concerned about that.
15:10And the federal law decided that it's the mayor we need to lead the police department.
15:14We have in collaboration with the minister-president, whether it's a level of the region, there is more to give
15:21a sort of help to this new form of police department.
15:28But I'm very positive.
15:29I'm saying, first of all, it's a sort of state of mind.
15:32If we want to succeed, I'm very sure that we can do it.
15:37And now, okay, that's not the law that we expect.
15:40Everybody knows about that.
15:42But we respect the law.
15:44And now we build this new police department together.
15:47And I hope and I'm sure that for the best welfare of the population, that is going to be a
15:52success.
15:52What makes this topic so relevant and so important that it's not only Brussels, Antwerp, Belgium.
15:58This is the major hub because you're close to all the important markets.
16:02The Dutch, the Germans, the French around you.
16:05What about European cooperation?
16:07Yes, I think for the Europeans it's very important, but not only Europeans.
16:12It's a world cooperation because you know that the large part of the cocaine was made in South America.
16:18That we need also this contact with South America.
16:20But I repeat, war against drugs, only with police department, that's not enough.
16:26We need also to share the experience of other countries.
16:30I repeat, like Portugal, about the health, public department, who can help all the drugs.
16:36Okay, and now your question, your last question to Mathieu.
16:39But I think what we need to do with the drugs is also a big conference when we stop with
16:45the motto and all the slogans and all the people say,
16:48I do that better than you, do you have the feeling that our Prime Minister is from your party, not
16:54from mine, is ready to organize a big conference with all the people who are leading local level, regional level,
17:03federal level, to try to build together a Belgian policy about fighting drugs.
17:11I think he's very open to the suggestion.
17:13I think you will know him personally as well as you have contacted him and also publicly he's very outspoken
17:19in his war on drugs.
17:20As a mayor, but also on a federal level as a prime minister, he has opened a task force, which
17:26is integrated all the different ministers who have also, for example, in health care policies, which are implemented and also
17:34have a role to play.
17:36And he's really trying to move forward.
17:38So if there is a question maybe from Brussels to cooperate or to have issues and to debate them on
17:43a national level, I think there always is a possibility.
17:46All right.
17:48Well, we have heard the views from our guests.
17:50Now it's time to introduce a new voice.
17:57And I would like to bring in Belgium's drugs commissioner Iné van Wiemers, who spoke about the social aspect of
18:03Belgium's drug problem.
18:05She said this.
18:06We cannot expect the military in the streets to solve the root causes of this problem.
18:11We know that we have to develop an educational policy and poverty policy.
18:16We need to get people back to work.
18:18We really have to raise the quality of life in our city.
18:22Does she have a point here?
18:24I think it's the best woman at the best place.
18:27Inge do very good jobs.
18:29It was formed also in Brussels and the Justice Department.
18:34We work also in the police department of Brussels.
18:37And Iné van Wiemers is very, very realistic.
18:41And Trey also to make collaboration with all the people.
18:45And as I repeat, drugs is not only for the police department.
18:48She speaks about education, about poverty, about what we can do together.
18:54She also speaks about military in the streets.
18:56That is an interesting aspect.
18:58Military, it exists.
18:59It exists, but does it help?
19:01Well, the main focus on military in the streets was first the security of public buildings which were under threat.
19:08Jewish synagogues, also public buildings in EU quarters, etc.
19:13Of course, they will never solve the drug problem as a whole.
19:16That is not their purpose to have them patrol in the streets.
19:20You need to have other measures as well, police measures, but also other health care measures, etc.
19:24To have a whole-of-government approach.
19:27And in this way, I agree with our drug commissioner.
19:31She compared it to an iceberg.
19:33I mean, the violence is at the top of the iceberg, very visible.
19:37But you need to increase the temperature to make the iceberg melt.
19:41And then, of course, you need to work on poverty issues, safety issues, homelessness, etc.
19:46All right, let's take a break.
19:48Here on The Ring, we'll be back with more after this.
19:51Don't go away.
20:00Welcome back to this special edition of The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:05I'm Stefan Grob, and I'm joined by Philipp Kloos, the mayor of the city of Brussels,
20:09and Matthias Vandenbaure from the opposition NVA party.
20:13We have data here from the Belgian Public Health Institute using wastewater measurements
20:18that show that during weekends, the amount of cocaine found in this water
20:23is significantly higher.
20:25This was especially the case in Namur, Liège, and Brussels South.
20:30The difference between weekends and weekdays was in some cases as high as 90%,
20:36indicating use almost doubled.
20:40Matthias, is this a surprise for you?
20:45I think the drug use in general and cocaine, it's almost everywhere integrated in our society,
20:52but we cannot really normalize it.
20:54Even though we know that it's readily available, we still need to consider it as a problem drug,
21:00I think.
21:00But you were talking obviously about nightlife, right?
21:03Yeah, yeah.
21:03Maybe in higher circles?
21:05You know, something I heard, that the highest level of cocaine in the water
21:10is in this neighborhood, in the European neighborhood.
21:14It is not only against...
21:15But this is dead on weekends here, right?
21:16And this is during the week.
21:19And in the worst water, we learn that because they can also study well in which part of the city.
21:27And it's true that it's in the south of Brussels, which is in the rich part of Brussels,
21:31and here in the European area.
21:33Then also, I always say to the European responsible person that be careful.
21:39It's also a large part of people walking because the work is so hard.
21:42They're using drugs not only to be fun, to go party, something like that,
21:48but because they need drugs to work.
21:49And that's a real problem for me.
21:51More and more people using drugs only because they need the drugs they need between...
21:57Should that type of consumer face harsher penalties?
22:01I think you need to responsabilize the drug use as well.
22:04I mean, this is part of the integrated approach.
22:07I mean, you have to focalize on the gun violence, of course, and the gangs,
22:10and you need to attack also the middle and the higher management and the trades, the money, and all those
22:15measures.
22:15But in a way, you need to also responsabilize the users.
22:19And this is what Barthe Weaver also is saying in Antwerp and in his fight against drugs,
22:24that it's not really so innocent to use drugs yourself because you're really compliant or a part of this whole
22:32scheme.
22:33And the real drug violence originates in the South of America with all the extreme gun violence.
22:41And in a way, as an end user, you're a part of this.
22:44For example, if you compare it to the trade of clothing, when it's really made in an unsanitary way or
22:53with child labor, etc.,
22:55people will say, okay, we won't buy this anymore.
22:57But I think you need to say the same about drugs.
23:00I mean, you're part of this very disorganized crime, in a way.
23:04I'm going to bring up against the educational aspect, and you alluded to that earlier.
23:10Now, drugs, it's an old problem, right?
23:13And even when I was in school, many years ago, I was told that drugs are bad.
23:19Why is that system failing?
23:22If we see that drugs are among youngsters, the use of drugs is increasing.
23:29Remember in the 80s, because there was a slogan, a motto in the United States,
23:33it was just say no.
23:34But that's not enough.
23:35Just say no.
23:36Remember, it's Nancy Reagan who said that.
23:39Right.
23:39Just say no is not enough.
23:40If you want to educate someone, you need to explain, to find the issue, why so many people using that.
23:47So why is that not happening enough?
23:48But because the people doesn't want to pick up on public health.
23:52They say, okay, we ask at the police department to solve this problem.
23:55I repeat, when I ask to the youth people, why do you use drugs?
23:59It's because it's cheaper than to pay a cocktail.
24:02I want to be high.
24:03I want to go to a party.
24:04Then it's good.
24:05It has MDMA, cocaine, ecstasy.
24:07Then they're using that because I want to be high.
24:09And it's cheaper than to take a cocktail.
24:13That's a real big problem.
24:14And we need to, if you want an education program, first of all, politicians need to accept that we need
24:21to educate people with the drugs.
24:23Not for the people using drugs, but also because we need to learn about the different addiction.
24:29All right.
24:30Now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
24:37And here we want to do something different.
24:40I'm going to ask you a set of questions and you can only answer with yes or no.
24:45Most guests do that.
24:46Impossible for a competition.
24:47Maybe.
24:48Okay.
24:48Maybe not.
24:49So the first one is for you.
24:52Has Belgium lost control of the drug issue?
24:55No.
24:56Not yet.
24:58Okay.
24:59Is Brussels less safe than it was five years ago?
25:03Yes.
25:04No.
25:05Does Belgium need tougher sentencing laws?
25:08Tougher punishments?
25:10Tougher punishments?
25:13Yes.
25:15Should combating drug trafficking become Belgium's number one security priority?
25:22Top five, yes.
25:24Top three.
25:24Yes.
25:25Same answer.
25:27Okay.
25:28Police complain they arrest suspects only to see them released days later.
25:32Is Belgium's justice system broken?
25:35No.
25:38Yes.
25:39In that way, yes.
25:40Is there simply too little fear of punishment in Belgium today?
25:44Yes.
25:45Against the deterrence?
25:47Mm-hmm.
25:47No.
25:48Should Belgium legalize some drugs to undercut criminal networks?
25:52Yes.
25:53No.
25:55Is corruption linked to drug trafficking now one of Belgium's biggest internal threats?
26:00Yes.
26:01Yes.
26:02Okay.
26:03That word of the narco state by that judge is...
26:06I think we are not an narco states, but corruption exists, depends also on drugs.
26:11Do you trust your opponent's party to solve this crisis?
26:14No.
26:16Yes.
26:18All right.
26:19Was there anything your opponent said over the past half hour that you agree with?
26:23For sure.
26:24I'm sure.
26:24You know, in Belgium you are not agree alone.
26:26It's always the same.
26:28That's what we love about this country.
26:30Yeah.
26:30Yes.
26:31What was it?
26:33I think...
26:34I know Philippe Glose as a social democrat and his policies.
26:38I think as a mayor, he tries to be tough on law and tough on police.
26:44And I think this is very public about it.
26:47And in many ways today I heard the same.
26:50So I agree with that.
26:51Yes.
26:51Okay.
26:52One word to...
26:53But I'm sure I'm not just always ready, always to building bridge between Brussels and other
26:58level to convince also the level that Brussels is not only a hellhole, as Trent says, but
27:04they are always issue that we can build together.
27:07Okay.
27:07Fantastic.
27:08On that note, this final answer brings us to the end of the special edition of The Ring.
27:13Thanks again to Philippe Glose.
27:14Thank you very much.
27:15Matthias Vandenbauer.
27:16Thank you.
27:16For a lively conversation.
27:18Thanks to our audience at home.
27:19If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to theringateuronews.com.
27:25We'd love to have your feedback.
27:27That's it for today.
27:29I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:29Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
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