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Aus den Augen? EU-Abgeordnete streiten über Rückführzentren in „The Ring“
Die neue Ausgabe von „The Ring“ kommt aus dem Europaparlament in Brüssel: Die Abgeordneten Lena Düpont (EVP) und Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) streiten über Rückkehrzentren für irreguläre Migranten.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/04/09/aus-den-augen-eu-abgeordnete-streiten-uber-ruckfuhrzentren-in-the-ring
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Die neue Ausgabe von „The Ring“ kommt aus dem Europaparlament in Brüssel: Die Abgeordneten Lena Düpont (EVP) und Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) streiten über Rückkehrzentren für irreguläre Migranten.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/04/09/aus-den-augen-eu-abgeordnete-streiten-uber-ruckfuhrzentren-in-the-ring
Abonnieren Sie! Euronews gibt es in 12 Sprachen.
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NewsTranskript
00:09Untertitelung des ZDF für funk, 2017
00:30Luis Albertos has more.
00:34On the 26th of March, the European Parliament adopted a reform enabling member states to set up migration return hubs
00:42in third countries for rejected asylum seekers.
00:46The measure marks a significant hardening of EU migration policy, allowing deportations to external facilities negotiated with partner states.
00:55The vote unfolded against escalating turmoil in the Middle East that has led to massive displacement in the region.
01:01In Lebanon alone, over 1 million people have been forced to flee their homes, according to the UN's International Organization
01:08for Migration.
01:11Although large-scale onward migration to Europe remains unlikely, the EU is moving towards stricter migration policies.
01:18In this context, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz faced widespread backlash after stating that over the longer term of the next
01:26three years, 80% of the Syrians currently in Germany should return to their homeland.
01:33What does the European Parliament's rightward shift on migration mean for the future of asylum?
01:38And can the EU balance stricter migration policies with growing human rights concerns?
01:47They're the questions that we have for our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:52Lena Dupont, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party.
01:57She serves on the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs.
02:01Regarding returns in the third country concept, she said,
02:04The EU must speed up the rejection of clearly unfounded asylum applications.
02:09By applying the safe third country concept and an EU list of safe countries of origin,
02:13asylum procedures become faster and more efficient while protecting those in real need.
02:19Juan Fernando López Aguilar, a Spanish MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.
02:24He serves in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs
02:27and is one of the European Parliament's most influential figures on migration and asylum policy.
02:33Before being an MEP, he served as Spain's Minister of Justice.
02:37Migration is a fact. It is not a threat.
02:40And walls are not the answer, said López Aguilar,
02:43highlighting the need to manage migration while respecting human rights.
02:49Juan Fernando López Aguilar and Lena Dupont, welcome to The Ring.
02:53The aim here is to give our viewers a glimpse of your debates inside the European Parliament,
02:57so you should feel right at home.
02:59So look, let's pick up on that vote.
03:01On these return hubs, you voted in favour.
03:04You say it's the missing piece of the puzzle. Why?
03:06Well, because it is the missing piece of the puzzle.
03:09We invested quite heavily in the previous term in the so-called Asylum and Migration Policy Pact,
03:14so the new Pact on Asylum and Migration, and that was always the missing part to that pact.
03:19It has been part of it before.
03:21It was taken out for political reasons because we were not able to find an agreement.
03:24And in this term, we really need to make sure that this last missing piece of a pact is indeed
03:31implemented.
03:32But on the other hand, we've seen bodies like the Council of Europe warning that these hubs could create human
03:37rights black holes.
03:39Juan Fernando, what is your view here?
03:40Of course, we are concerned.
03:42Return hubs are not the answer, particularly when they are outside the borders of the European Union.
03:49Return hubs have no guarantees of respect to fundamental rights.
03:52They are not consistent with EU law.
03:53They are not consistent with the architecture we put in place when we adopted the Migration and Asylum Pact.
03:58And, of course, they give the chance to member states to, for an economic compensation,
04:04to some kind of a ruler outside the European Union, keep migrants out of our sight.
04:10And that's not the idea.
04:11Lena Dumont, how do you address these concerns?
04:13Well, first of all, your concerns were not just basically neglected or ignored.
04:18There have been part of the discussions.
04:19You have been, and your group have been on the table as well, but you decided to leave.
04:24You also did not support the compromise, for example, from the liberal rapporteur.
04:30And that was also not only about return hubs.
04:32Indeed, return hubs are in there, but still in the parliament's mandate, we have the article on the fundamental rights,
04:38which are the basic assumption for the whole concept as such.
04:42We are speaking about security cases.
04:44We are speaking about really bringing the resources of the member states together with that of the European Union
04:50to make sure that afterwards more than one in five returnees actually is returned, which is the current case.
04:56But how can you be sure there will be oversight?
04:57On the return hubs as such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements, which are bilateral or trilateral, multilateral.
05:05But do you really deep down trust these arrangements?
05:08Will it not be more kind of out of sight, out of mind?
05:10Well, if you look at the debate as such on return hubs, for example, when you're also debating with international
05:16organizations,
05:16they're also not saying it's not feasible.
05:19They're saying under certain conditions, it is workable.
05:22And it stems from the fact that we know that most of the people actually do want to return to
05:27their region, to their country, if it's possible.
05:30But if it's not possible, and there are other opportunities in the vicinity of their home region,
05:34it should be feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:38But you fear people could be left in legal limbo.
05:40Of course, let's make it clear.
05:43We socialists, we try to be part of the equation, but we're left aside.
05:48And the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far-right groups of the European Parliament,
05:55which are three far-right groups, and they were the ones to adopt this instrument.
05:59Of course, we understand that member states are concerned about returns.
06:05But return hubs, absolutely not.
06:07Because they are externalizing the management of the whole issue.
06:11Besides, there are no guarantees to protect fundamental rights when they're outside the European Union,
06:16because those third states are not bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations.
06:23Besides, they're extending the time frame.
06:26There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of the...
06:32You're nodding your head in disagreement here, but Juan Fernando López had a point.
06:36In the past, you worked a lot, very closely with the socialists in this European Parliament,
06:41but now you're working much closer with the far-right.
06:44Well, let me probably get two things straight here.
06:47A, this question about the detention is not connected to return hubs.
06:51It's a different part of the legislation that we were discussing upon.
06:55And for security cases, I do think that there are credible reasons and credible examples in all member states
07:01why a prolonged detention sometimes can be not only necessary, but needed.
07:06Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns of the member states,
07:12the mandate we put forward for a vote is based on the council's position,
07:17on the commission proposal where we thought that we needed to protect specifically the European angle of that proposal,
07:24and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced for a very long time.
07:28So known positions of ours.
07:30If we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote because someone else might jump on it,
07:35then actually we do have a bit of a difficult political discussion.
07:39And I very much respect the position of the S&D here.
07:42I know that it also has been a tough negotiations for them,
07:45but they were the ones deciding to leave the table.
07:47It was not us.
07:48We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority to adopt the Migration and Asylum Pact.
07:55But the thing is that ever since this mandate started, there's been a new majority,
08:01the EPP leaning with three far-right political groups,
08:03and they have been the ones to somehow legalize the so-called Meloni practice with Albania.
08:10But it's not only Albania.
08:11It can be whatever, third country, maybe in Africa.
08:15Why should a third country ruler accept that kind of a deal from a member state?
08:20Only because of economic compensation?
08:22Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights involved, to protect the minors, to protect the economic component minors, fundamental
08:29rights involved?
08:30Are there any legal considerations which are actually considered with the architecture that we finally adopted?
08:36No, the answer is not.
08:37Are there?
08:37We didn't have best to meet that concerns, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis.
08:46And that, of course, allows the European Union, the member states on their bilateral or multilateral level to really follow
08:53up.
08:54We have the attention and actually also, if needed, and I think that this is something that should be taken
08:59into consideration,
09:00also the support by the international organization, so there will be a lot of emphasis.
09:05And describe a return hub to our viewers.
09:06How would it look like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now, together with the Commission,
09:11as part of the, let's say, integral approach also to our third country corporation.
09:15And again, we are investing quite heavily in third countries, not only when it comes to border management and asylum
09:21capacities,
09:22but, for example, when it comes to economic prosperity, when it comes to fundamental rights, and so on and so
09:27forth.
09:27Does that not reassure you that the Commission and the member states together will design how these hubs should look?
09:31Not enough.
09:33Of course, we are aware that, as to the so-called non-eligible people to stay, they are human beings.
09:40And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object to cannibalistic psychology because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways, and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group right from
09:55the outset.
09:56Legal pathways should be open.
09:58Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas, legal pathways so that they don't have to risk their lives to make it irregularly to
10:05the European Union.
10:06Once they are here, of course, you have to tell the difference between those who are entitled to some kind
10:13of human rights consideration,
10:14particularly in common minors and women with minors and families in special conditions, so that they are given the proper
10:24treatment.
10:25But as to putting them out of our sight and making a deal with some third country ruler so that
10:32they can be somehow piled up for indefinite period of time in some return hubs with no fundamental rights
10:41and with no binding legal considerations as to EU law, that's absolutely against the mandate of the European Union to
10:49respect international law,
10:51which includes humanitarian law, which includes human rights, as a first condition of EU external action and foreign policy.
10:59And the European Union, of course, fancies itself as a cheerleader of fundamental rights.
11:03Let me stop you there, as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers to get a real flavour of the European Parliament's chamber, where MEPs ask
11:15questions directly to each other, and sometimes it gets heated.
11:18So I would like to start with ladies first.
11:20Lena Dupont, you can address your very first question to Juan López Aguilar.
11:24Yes, for example, how do you actually get that together, that if Spain is going on such a huge regularisation
11:30programme,
11:31that it will have repercussions for the rest of the European Union,
11:35and then at the same time say, we're looking for European solutions here?
11:38First of all, what Spain has done is not unprecedented.
11:41Many member states have resorted to regularisation.
11:43And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49It's a positive approach.
11:50Rightly so.
11:50Everyone, everyone is agreeing on that Spain is now the locomotive, the number one locomotive when it comes to economic
11:59growth and job creation,
12:01precisely because it has an alternative, positive view to migration, as opposed to the negative approach, which is the predominant,
12:11which is the prevailing site to migration and contaminates not only migrants, but also asylum seekers.
12:17So the thing is that when you have a positive approach to migration, when you give the chance to those
12:22who are already staying on Spanish soil and Spanish territory,
12:26and you give the chance to regularise, you're enhancing not only their human rights, but also the economy and job
12:35creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer or would you like a follow-up?
12:38Well, it just basically creates another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing is...
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me, it's more or less a sign of an overstretched capacity if you need to regularise things,
12:50because you're not able to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates for so long.
12:55And of course, I understand it's a divisive issue.
12:57But having said this, there is nothing in the right and conservative rhetoric that does not lead to pull factor.
13:06Everything is pull factor to the negative approach to migration.
13:10When you treat them as human beings, that's pull factor.
13:14When you regularise them, that's pull factor.
13:17When you incorporate into the job market, that's pull factor.
13:20Apparently, the only answer would be expelling them out or having them out of our side, whatever the cost, whatever
13:27it takes.
13:28And of course, that leads to an utter contradiction with the values and the EU law which you should be
13:34standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando López, your opportunity now to address the question to Lena Dupont.
13:39Lena, I've known you for years.
13:41Are you happy that actually this return regulation was adopted by the EPP with the far right?
13:48I can picture the far right standing up in a standing ovation to themselves, happy of what they did.
13:55Are you happy with that legalisation of the Meloni practices, of externalising the migration management, of giving the third countries
14:05the chance to pile migrants and asylum seekers altogether in indefinite time,
14:11only for the sake of reassuring the member states that we will be somehow countering back the numbers of migrants
14:19which keep knocking on our doors?
14:21Are you happy?
14:23Well, of course, as you can say, it was a difficult decision.
14:27When we see that only one in five returnees, only 20% of those who do not have a right
14:32to stay within the European Union, are still staying in the European Union.
14:36And it was always an integral part to the pact, because on the one side of the medal, you have
14:41the protection of those who are in need and granted protection.
14:45In the midst of the medal, you have the solidarity of the European Union taking care of responsibility and solidarity
14:51together.
14:51And on the other side of that coin, you have the return policies, because the ones who do not have
14:57a right to stay within the European Union,
14:59and this is not against a positive approach to migration or a treatment as non-humanitarian,
15:05it's just the simple following our own rules, which has always been part of the pact, basically.
15:10And you know that, because when we started negotiation on the pact, there were 12 regulations in there.
15:15And just because I'm aware you haven't answered the question, so I think you want to ask a follow-up.
15:18Let me make one point clear. Yes, the rate of returnees is low, but it's because of the lack of
15:25an architecture,
15:26a diplomatic architecture of agreements being negotiated with third countries by the European Union in all,
15:32which has got a single legal personality. And of course, those returns should be dignified,
15:38consistent with the fundamental rights and human rights involved, and preferably voluntary.
15:43Okay, we've heard from our MEPs. Now it's time to bring in a new argument to this discussion.
15:51I would like to bring in the voice of Yves Getty, director of Amnesty International's EU office.
15:56She said that this vote marks a growing trend towards increasingly harmful, exclusionary,
16:02and draconian policies on migration, with worrying repercussions for due process and evidence-based
16:08policymaking. Far from reducing irregularity, these proposals risk trapping more people
16:13in precarious situations. Lena Dupont, that is the concerns that NGOs are having.
16:18Well, again, we are speaking about a process that has been followed through from the asylum
16:23application onwards to the rejection of the asylum claim and forward to the return procedure.
16:30So it's not like we are just basically rejecting people on unfounded base.
16:36But again, it's in the pact itself. It is said that a fact of protection needs to be there.
16:42And this is not only a moral obligation, but it's also a treaty obligation, a law obligation
16:48for every member state of the European Union. And this is the principle of everything that can be
16:52done under the arrangements or agreements.
16:54And we've heard from Charlie Weimers, that's the Swedish negotiator from the right-wing party,
16:59the European conservatives and reformers hailing this as the new consensus in Europe,
17:04chanting the new era of deportations has begun. This is why NGOs are so concerned, Juan Fernando.
17:09I reject that kind of a rhetoric, for sure. And I agree with the concerns that have been expressed
17:16by NGOs as to the flaws of this new policy and legislation that the European Union is putting
17:22in place with the cooperation of the right with the far right. It is the contrary. The thing is that
17:28for member states to have agreements with third countries, it deters the very possibility of the
17:35European Union deploying a diplomacy in itself. And it should be the European Union negotiating with
17:41countries of transit and origin, so that that cooperation with countries of transit and origin would have as a result,
17:50first, giving opportunities for people to stay where they are born, instead of doing whatever, even resorting
17:57to human trafficking and international criminal organizations to make it to the European Union.
18:02But once they are in the European Union, I insist, they are human beings and they are subject to the
18:09Charter of Fundamental Rights,
18:10which protects not only European citizens, but all human beings under EU law. And they have been applied EU law,
18:18they have been implemented EU law in the worst scenario, in the worst possibility you might think of,
18:24which is precisely that member states are now legalizing those practices with third countries,
18:31with no legally binding agreements, whatever. No, no legally binding agreements, just some kind of a deal
18:39suffices to keep human beings out of the European Union without human rights considerations.
18:45Just let me, also from my understanding, because I fully agree with you on the point of the diplomacy,
18:52actually, and I fully agree also with you on the redemption of that language, because we're speaking about human beings.
18:59Whatever we did with the Asylum and Migration Pact, again, returns being integral part of it, we're speaking about human
19:05beings.
19:05So this is the first thing. Second thing, I agree with you on the migration diplomacy. But if now member
19:11states,
19:11together with the European Commission, or bilaterally, trilaterally, are actually implementing those treaties and corporations
19:18that you called for with the migration diplomacy, then how can it be bad? Because it is based on treaties
19:25and agreements
19:26and arrangements that are not only enforceable, but also are able to follow up. If we want to create more
19:32possibilities
19:32for people to stay in an area where they have a perspective, where they're close to their region,
19:38where they have safe and stable conditions, before making the route to the European Union, why shouldn't we do that?
19:45We've heard from our MEPs. Now it is time to take a short break here on The Ring,
19:49but we'll be back very soon with some more political punch.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring, Eurie News' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:06I'm joined by the MEPs Juan Fernando López Aguiar and Lena Dupont.
20:10This week we're focusing on the topic of migration and the point of return hubs, and we wanted to share
20:16this data with you.
20:18480,000 people were ordered to leave the European Union each year, but only 20% or 25% are
20:25actually returned.
20:26And according to Eurostat, in 2024, it was Germany, Spain, Italy and France that received 70 to 75% of
20:34all EU asylum claims.
20:36And this comes as 1 million asylum cases are pending across the European Union.
20:41So why, Juan Fernando, do you think this is happening? What is causing these delays?
20:46Because you need arrangements, agreements, legally binding agreements with countries of origin, not with any country.
20:54Because if we didn't have these figures, you wouldn't need the return hubs.
20:56This return regulation lacks every meaningful link with a country of origin.
21:02It doesn't matter where do you belong, as long as there's someone willing to keep you out of our sight.
21:09Meaning that maybe some sub-Saharian Africa coming actually from, let's say, Mali or let's say Ghana can be returned
21:20to whatever country, to Libya, to Morocco, to Tunisia, as long as the ruler is willing to have them.
21:29Is that fair? Of course not. What we need is a legal architecture with countries of origin, so that you
21:38make certain that you're actually returning someone to the country where that particular someone actually came from.
21:46But you, on the other hand, believe that the return hubs will increase efficiency and that in a couple of
21:51years those figures will be very different.
21:53Well, first of all, again, return hubs is not the only thing that is in the return regulation as such.
21:58We are also speaking about member states streamlining their procedures, helping each other out with resources, taking European...
22:05Do you trust member states will do that? I mean...
22:07Well, member states are the ones asking for that. So I assume they will also then follow up on your
22:11own proposals and policies...
22:12Because implementation is always the big challenge here, right? One thing is promising something?
22:16Of course it is. Implementation is the devil in the detail. And we will also make sure politically that we
22:21will follow up from the European perspective on member states fulfilling their not only implementation, but really also then driving
22:27up what they have been asking for.
22:29But again, I mean, Juan, your idea, and to a certain extent I do subscribe to that, but that would
22:35have already worked in the current cases because there is the international obligation to take back your own national citizens.
22:41And this is what third countries are not doing in some cases. So we need a leverage, of course it
22:46is, to the best use if we do it together at European level.
22:50But we also know that member states have to do some links to third countries where they have a good
22:55cooperation already.
22:56And the last point actually on that, it's about... And this is the part of the agreement or the arrangement
23:01then to really put forward perspectives for the people there.
23:04So this is an integral part of the policy as such.
23:07Let me tell you something. I chaired the Committee of Liberal Justice and Home Affairs for 10 years, and I
23:12represented the European Parliament, the Council of Ministers of Interior.
23:15I heard them saying, live, fly them to Rwanda. And my question was, why Rwanda?
23:22Because only do you think they are black, they're indistinct in Rwanda and whatever African country, no matter where they
23:28belong to?
23:28The thing is that we need actually to change our look, act more positively, and of course exert European diplomacy
23:38to come to terms with countries of origin and, needless to say, transit too,
23:43so that agreements are binding in the legal way and consistent with EU law. Not any agreement would suffice.
23:54And this language, Lena Dupont, that we're hearing inside ministries' meetings and used by politicians is having an impact on
23:59society.
23:59We've seen an increase in racist attack and xenophobic attacks in countries like Germany.
24:04Well, this was mainly because for far too long, actually, both at European level and also at a certain extent
24:09at national level,
24:10we tend to not address the concerns of the citizens.
24:14And there is an overstretch in capacities in almost all member states, which is why it is so important that
24:20we have a distinction between asylum and migration,
24:24because the people you're addressing are completely different.
24:28The capacities, the structures you need are completely different.
24:32And I think that this is one of the starting points.
24:33And what people experienced in the past is that people felt the need that actually we had lost control.
24:39What we have been proposing here, both in the pact and with the mandate of the parliament on returns,
24:44is that we put forward a structured, in order, a humane way of organising asylum and migration.
24:51And it is now time for the fifth and the final round.
24:58So now it's time for something a little bit different.
25:00I'm going to be asking our MEPs just one question, and you can only answer yes or no.
25:06Okay, let's begin.
25:09Are current EU returns too slow? Yes or no?
25:12Yes.
25:13Yes or no?
25:14Yes.
25:15You both agree on that one.
25:16Should EU countries set up return hubs abroad? Yes or no?
25:20Yes.
25:21No.
25:21Yes or no? No. Very clear no.
25:23Is irregular migration a threat today to the European Union?
25:26Léna Dupont, yes or no?
25:28Not as such.
25:29Yes or no?
25:30No, definitely not. It's a fact.
25:33And asylum is a right.
25:34But it needs to be in an ordered and structured way.
25:38Should rejected asylum seekers be returned to safe third countries, yes or no?
25:41Yes.
25:42No.
25:44Should minors be exempt from return hubs, yes or no?
25:48Yes.
25:48Okay.
25:49According to the mandate.
25:51Should the European Union prioritise efficiency over individual claims, yes or no?
25:55Yes.
25:56No.
25:57Should Frontex have greater powers, yes or no?
26:01In the returns process as such, yes.
26:04It should have a mandate to cooperate better with third countries.
26:08Is the EU's migration commissioner doing a good job, Magnus Bruner, yes or no?
26:13Yes.
26:16Well, well, well, well, I mean, it's not personal, but I can only be sorry to see that his proposals
26:23have been endorsed with standing ovation by the far right.
26:28Could the war in the Middle East trigger a new migration wave here in the European Union,
26:33yes or no?
26:33We are monitoring very actively the situation in the region and we are prepared.
26:39Yes.
26:40Yes.
26:40And we shouldn't panic.
26:42We can handle it.
26:43Well, that was my next question.
26:44Is the European Union prepared for this scenario, yes or no?
26:47Not in the current circumstances, not in the current so-called relation of forces, but
26:52according to EU capacity, for sure it should.
26:56So we shouldn't panic.
26:58We can handle it as long as we do it according to EU values and EU law.
27:01So what is of utmost importance is that we closely cooperate with our countries, our
27:07partner countries that we have in the region.
27:09Final question.
27:10Did you agree with anything you heard from Lena Dupont, yes or no?
27:14Yes.
27:15And did you agree with anything you heard from Juan Fernando López Aguilar, yes or no?
27:18Not with everything, but with anything, yes.
27:20Yeah.
27:20Well, we give a glimpse there of how you actually can meet compromises here in the European
27:25Parliament.
27:25Lena Dupont and Juan Fernando López Aguilar, thank you so much for joining us here on The Ring
27:29and thank you so much for tuning in.
27:32You can write us your views or comments at thering at yournews.com.
27:36That is our email address.
27:37Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:39Thank you so much for joining us here on Euronews.
27:40Thank you.
27:41Thank you.
27:46Thank you.
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