During a Senate hearing on the circumstances surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s 2019 death in federal custody, Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana sparked major attention with a blunt remark comparing Epstein’s death to things that “don’t hang themselves.” The hearing, held on November 19, examined why Epstein—who officials reported died by suicide—was left unsupervised for nearly eight hours in a Manhattan jail. U.S. prosecutors continue to investigate oversight failures and procedural lapses at the facility as questions about Epstein’s treatment persist.
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00:00Christmas ornaments, drywall and Jerry Epstein. Name three things that don't hang
00:07themselves. That's what the American people think. That's what the American
00:13people think. And they deserve some answers. And I know that you're not in
00:20charge of these investigations. Yes sir. But you talk to the people who are. And I
00:27need you to take a very respectful message today. Tell the American people
00:37what happened. And don't rush it so that they don't do a thorough investigation.
00:44But you and I both know they can make this a top priority and get it done more
00:50quickly than they normally would. As I indicated in my opening statement I
00:54wanted to talk about the death of Mr. Epstein. Do you concur with the opinion
01:01that it was a suicide? That was the finding of the coroner sir. Okay. Do you have any
01:06evidence suggest otherwise? I do not. How could this have happened? Unfortunately sir
01:12this thing is this the death and the whole situation is still under the
01:15investigation of the FBI and the inspector general's office. And I'm really not at
01:20liberty to discuss specifics of this case. I can discuss issues around
01:24institutional operations. But I can't specifically talk about that particular
01:29issue. Okay. With a case this high profile there's got to be their major
01:36malfunction of the system or criminal enterprise at foot to allow this to
01:40happen. So are you looking at both? Is the FBI looking at both? If the FBI is
01:46involved then they are looking at criminal enterprise. Yes. Do we have people in in
01:51custody today of this high profile nature? Have we done anything to adjust since
01:56Mr. Epstein's death? Sir we take every inmate's life very seriously in the Bureau
02:01of Prisons. A high profile inmate is no more important or significant in terms of
02:06our operations than just the average inmate that comes our way. I mean high profile
02:09somebody's on a suicide watch. I would like to explain our suicide watch system if I
02:14may. I can't talk specifically about Epstein. But we have different tiers of
02:18response if we identify an inmate who appears to have suicidal thinking. And I
02:23came into the Bureau as a psychologist. I worked with lots of suicidal inmates. I was
02:26warden at our psychiatric facility in Butner and I know how difficult it is to
02:29always be able to predict who is suicidal and who is not. But once an inmate is
02:33identified as potentially suicidal we have a suicide watch operation that we can
02:37place them in. It's a very stark, very difficult setting where everything is
02:41stripped from the room except a mattress. They get a coarse gown like to wear that
02:45cannot be twisted in any way that they could hang themselves from it. They have
02:49one mattress and one blanket and they are watched constantly. There's nothing
02:53else in that room. Is Mr. Epstein on suicide watch? Yes he watched. However the
02:57average time on suicide watch is only about 24 hours because it is such a stark
03:01and actually depressing situation. We then can move them to another tier of
03:05observation which is called psychological observation. Did that happen in
03:09this case? I can't speak specifically but I am sharing this with you so that you
03:12understand our procedure sir. They then can move to another tier which is
03:17suicide or psychological observation where they get their clothes back. They're in a
03:21more normalized setting. They are watched and scrutinized every moment of the day.
03:25But that is a much more normal environment. Do they have roommates?
03:29I'm sorry sir? Do they have roommates? No they do not when they're on
03:31psychological observation because they're being watched continuously. Did Mr. Epstein have a
03:35roommate when he allegedly committed suicide? No he did not. Okay. They move into
03:42psychological observation. Psychologists see them routinely, interview them
03:46repeatedly and once it's determined that the threat of suicide seems to have
03:52passed then that inmate can be returned back to open population. Well clearly it
03:58didn't work here so we await the report because all the victims of Mr. Epstein
04:04have to have their heart ripped out. I'll still never see justice. Dr. Sawyer can
04:11you think of any other incidents in the history of the BOP that have caused as
04:15much crisis for public trust for your institution as Epstein's death? I can only
04:20speak for the since 1976 when I joined the Bureau. I don't know prior to that but I
04:25would say it's probably gotten the most public attention. There are lots of
04:29taxpayers and citizens who've never thought about the BOP and you have lots of
04:32good patriotic hard-working folks there. I get that but in terms of a crisis of
04:36public trust in general but also in terms of your workforce this death
04:40happened in the middle of August, early August. It's Thanksgiving and you're
04:45here to testify today and you say you're not allowed to speak about this
04:47incident. I think that's crazy. Can you distinguish among types of
04:52investigations at least for us? Because I'm aware of at least three Epstein
04:55investigations. You get a whole bunch of women who were raped by this guy. This is a
04:59sex trafficking ring in the United States. This guy had evidence. He's got
05:03co-conspirators and there are victims out there who want to know where the
05:07evidence has gone. Can you tell us a little bit more about the different
05:11investigations? I understand there's at least one that you're directed by Maine
05:14Justice not to speak about but there are at least three investigations. Can you
05:18unpack them please? There are there are two investigations that are ongoing. One is
05:22the FBI's investigation and the other is the Inspector General's investigation. Both inside BOP but
05:26there's a third one outside which is why Epstein was in your institution to begin
05:30with. Yeah and that sir is completely out of my... I get that. There's there's a lot
05:35here where DOJ has failed. There's a lot here that BOP has failed. Let's just be
05:38clear so we have a level set for everybody in this room. You're in your job because
05:42of this crisis right. You come here today and you say you can't testify about it but
05:47the reason your director now is because the last guy got fired right? Senator I
05:50can't tell you what I don't know. I have received no information from the FBI
05:54investigation yet nor no information from the Inspector General. Once those
05:58entities go into one of our facilities we are forbidden from talking to anybody
06:02in the institution. We can send in a team and look at wherever there might have
06:06been a security flaw or something but we are not allowed to talk to anybody in our
06:10institutions about anything that happened over the episode. With all due
06:13respect you still have an obligation to speak to the girls who were raped by this
06:17guy today. You may not have to speak about every particular of the guards that
06:22were arrested last night but the fact that there is an ongoing attempt by the
06:26United States government to find out if there's still any evidence about the
06:30co-conspirators you do have an obligation to speak to those girls who were
06:33raped today. You may not speak about the specific of the charges against the
06:37specifics of the charges against those two guards this morning who were taken
06:41into custody but more broadly you should be able to unpack have we changed any
06:45processes about how cases like this are handled. It's been more than 90 days and
06:50you said I think your quote was we treat every inmate the same. We believe in
06:54America that every individual has equal dignity but not every inmate has equal
06:59value for future criminal investigations. Jeffrey Epstein was still to testify in a
07:04case somebody who's already been convicted who may be on suicide watch there are
07:08lots of good reasons to not want that guy to be able to kill himself. This is
07:12different because it isn't just about the individual inmate who might kill
07:15themselves. It's about the fact that that bastard wasn't able to testify against his
07:20other co-conspirators. So it is wrong as a management matter for you to say we
07:25treat everybody the same. We should be treating people who are yet to testify
07:29against other felons against other rapists. They have a lot more priority for
07:34your institution don't they? Senator all of our pretty much all of our inmates that are
07:38any of our jail facilities are pretrial. They're still yet to testify to be
07:42involved to share information on other cases. I don't know what evidence you're
07:46asking of me. If you're saying was there any evidence in his room in his
07:49possession at the time no that was all confiscated by the FBI. In his brain and
07:53in the cameras and in the tapes that the American public well understands
07:56appear to not be urgent enough for the Department of Justice. No it's very
08:00urgent for the Department of Justice and it's all been confiscated by the FBI
08:04and it's all part of their investigation. That's why none of that is
08:07shared with the director of the Bureau of Prisons or anyone in the Bureau until
08:09the investigations are completed. Once those are completed I'd be very happy to
08:14come up here and talk with any one of you that want to hear everything about
08:17we glean from those investigations. But until I have that information there's
08:21nothing I can tell you. If I don't have the information I cannot share anything
08:24with you. Then how widespread is the problem of sleeping on the job? There are
08:29lots of people in the public who think this seems a very convenient excuse and so
08:33tell us is it a systemic problem? Do we have a lot of people who sleep on the
08:37job when they're supposed to be guarding federal inmates? We have a few sir and we
08:40we have been monitoring the cameras that are existing in every one of our
08:44institutions to determine how well and how effectively our inmates are I mean our
08:47staff members are doing their rounds and counts in the institutions. We have
08:51found a couple of other instances and we have immediately referred those to the
08:55inspector general's office and I'm encouraging that if people just chose not
08:59to do their job we're hoping the US Attorney's Office will pick up those cases
09:03and prosecute them for us because we don't want those people in the Bureau of
09:06Prisons. They are dangerous to everybody the inmates and the staff and so we are
09:12zealously going about trying to determine which of our employees are good
09:15employees and who do their job and that is the vast majority of the prison staff but
09:20we do have some I know out there who obviously choose not to follow policy
09:25choose not to do their job and we want them gone. I do not want them in our
09:29institutions and I am exploring those very very carefully to identify them and
09:33get them out of our system. Now if it's a training problem and they didn't know
09:36what they were supposed to do that's our problem that's management's problem we
09:40have to do a better job training our staff but if someone is well trained well
09:43experienced and chooses not to do their job we want them gone. I assure you of that.
09:49I'm at times so I'll just give you a preview of something I'm gonna ask you for the
09:52record after the event you made a really important statement about drone drops of
09:56different kinds of contraband into your institutions. That's obviously a new and
10:00hard problem. That's a problem against which we have to play defense but there's
10:04also new opportunities for offense and so what's your long-term strategy is
10:08inside the institution about cameras is something that I think a lot of us would
10:11like to hear more and I'll send you a letter with some questions because
10:14Epstein's hallway should have still been monitored by cameras even if his guards
10:18were asleep and we don't have information about whether or not there were
10:21adequate cameras there and so I think a lot of us would like to
10:23understand where technology dollars are going. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Star. Thank you, Senator.
10:27Senator Blumenthal's next but just follow up on this. Will there be an IG report
10:31regarding what happened? There should be. Usually after the Inspector General's
10:35Office investigates they do come out with a report. If people are pending criminal
10:38charges we're not going to interfere in their cases but if there's an IG report I
10:42promise you we'll get fully briefed by the committee here.
10:49How can I put this? Christmas ornaments, drywall, and Jerry Epstein.
10:58Name three things that don't hang themselves. That's what the American people think.
11:04That's what the American people think. And they deserve some answers. And I know that you're not
11:12in charge of these investigations. Yes, sir. But you talk to the people who are. And I need you to
11:20take a
11:20very respectful message today. Tell the American people what happened. And don't rush it so that
11:34they don't do a thorough investigation. But you and I both know they can make this a top priority and
11:41get
11:41it done more quickly than they normally would. Director, the first time you saw Donald Trump's
11:47name was in the Epstein files. Did you close the files or keep reading?
11:54I have reviewed not the entirety of the files. So you haven't reviewed all of the Epstein files?
12:01Personally, no. You're the director of the FBI. This is the largest sex trafficking case the FBI has
12:07ever been a part of. Buck stops at the top. And your testimony today is you have not reviewed all
12:12the files. What I've been doing is been busy providing the safest country this country has
12:17seen in modern U.S. history in historic speed, because the men and women in the FBI are given
12:21the resources to reduce the homicide rates, to reduce the drug trafficking rate, to reduce
12:25the amount of children that are being trafficked, and the number of pedophiles that we have
12:28It sounds like those children being trafficked would appreciate the director reviewing the files.
12:32You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files.
12:36So it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right?
12:40The number is a total misleading factor. We have not released anyone's name in the Epstein files
12:47that has not been credible. We have released every piece of legally permissible information.
12:53You can characterize the numbers however you want it. You claim your time, director.
12:57It sounds like if you don't know the number, it could at least be a thousand times.
13:01It's not. It's not. Is it at least 500 times? No.
13:04Is it at least 100 times? No.
13:06Then what's the number? I don't know the number, but it's not that.
13:09Do you think it might be your job to know the number?
13:11My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country. My job is not to engage in
13:16political innuendo so you can go out to the sticks and get your 20-second hit in your fundraising
13:21article. So reclaiming my time, director.
13:24Because the people of California are being underserved by your representation.
13:28If the president is not implicated, why not release everything that involves.
13:31We have released everything, the president and anyone else's side, that is credible and
13:36lawfully be able to be released. Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm
13:41hiding, child pedophiles, is disgusting.
13:44Interest.
13:44Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone and go back to the state of California,
13:48who's receiving the biggest surge in FBI resources through my redeployment because the cities of
13:53Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco need it.
13:56Reclaiming my time, director. Remembering your oath to tell the truth,
13:58did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files?
14:02I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.
14:06Did you ever tell the attorney general that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
14:11The attorney general and I have had numerous discussions about
14:14the entirety of the Epstein files and the reviews conducted by our team.
14:17Did you tell the attorney general that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files?
14:20And we have released where President Trump's name is in the
14:22It's a simple question. Did you tell the attorney general that the president's name is in the Epstein files?
14:26During many conversations that the attorney general and I have had on the
14:30matter of epstein we have reviewed the question is simple who can tell the attorney general that
14:38donald trump's name is in the epstein files yes or no why don't you try spelling it out yes or
14:42no
14:43the alphabet yes or no no abc director it sounds like you don't want to tell us did you tell
14:49the
14:49attorney general that donald trump's name was in the epstein files why don't you try serving your
14:53constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that
14:58are legally covered in sanctuary cities in california i'll work with you on that regular
15:04order mr chairman director i'm the honest gentleman from california did you tell the attorney general
15:10that donald trump's name is in the epstein files question has been asked and answered you have not
15:14answered it and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt director did donald trump
15:19ever say to you just find and release the entire truth don't worry if i'm in it the instructions
15:25from the administration were to release all credible information and we have done that did
15:30donald trump ever provide information about jeffrey epstein as an informant donald trump has not been
15:36and i can only speak for the fbi an informant of the fbi so director you've played this cute shell
15:41game
15:41where you say you can't release everything because the court has said that it legally is not allowed to be
15:47released but the court calls judge richard berman said that when you went to the court quote information
15:54contained in the epstein grand jury transcripts pales pales in comparison to epstein investigation
16:02information and materials in the hands of the department of justice so let's move on director
16:08you wrote a book called government gangsters you identified 20 individuals in that book you put me on that
16:15list at the top of the list thank you my children find it flattering 20 of those individuals have been
16:20investigated or have had adverse actions director considering that you have identified these people
16:26as quote government gangsters will you recuse yourself from making any investigation decisions
16:32about these individuals anyone that has been terminated at the fbi has been done so no the
16:36question failed to meet the muster of their constitutional obligation i will work on the audio visual
16:40capabilities i'm going to borrow your terminology and call on your entire career in congress
16:45i'm reclaiming my time it has been a disgrace to the american people you can reclaim your time all
16:49you want mr chairman you're going to allow a witness to speak this way mr chairman would you
16:54give a fuse yourself the gentleman has no time the chairman would you admonish the witness not to
16:59insult members gentleman has no time with the mr chairman just maybe we'll remember point of order
17:03um could the gentleman be extended an additional 20 seconds to complete his thoughts since the
17:09witness decided to interrupt him continuously and the witness will be able to respond if he wants we'll make sure
17:13thank you my question is will you director recuse yourself yes or no from investigating or making
17:20decisions about the 60 individuals including myself that you identified as government gangsters yes or no
17:26time of the gentleman has expired the witness may respond if he would like and the answer was no
17:30as i heard christmas ornaments drywall and jerry epstein name three things that don't hang themselves
17:39it that's what the american people think that's what the american people think that's what the american
17:45people think and they deserve some answers and i know that you're not in charge of these investigations yes
17:53sir but you talk to the people who are and and i need you to take a very respectful message
18:00today
18:06um tell the american people what happened and and don't don't rush it so that they don't do a thorough
18:14investigation but you and i both know they can make this a top priority and get it done more quickly
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