- 2 days ago
Matt Bernier joined this week's TDN Writers' Room to reminisce on his time at FanDuel TV and look ahead to what's next in his career. He also debated the talents of Steve Asmussen's Magnitude compared to Gun Runner. Elsewhere on the show, the team analyzed last week's top performances at Saratoga and looked ahead at this weekend's racing.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:18Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:21My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:22I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, also co-host the Down the Stretch Radio
00:00:27Show on Saturdays with Dave Johnson.
00:00:29Tune us in, Channel 85 at 10 a.m. Eastern Time.
00:00:34A plug, a plug from Bill.
00:00:36I love it.
00:00:37How's it going, Bill?
00:00:38I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Byers Speed Figure crew.
00:00:42How are you all doing?
00:00:43Very well.
00:00:44Zoe Cablin here with First TV and First Racing.
00:00:46I'm in the middle of Nebraska at a rest stop somewhere.
00:00:50I don't know where I am.
00:00:52I've just been cornfield after cornfield.
00:00:55I don't know if you can see the doodle.
00:00:57Can you see the doodle?
00:00:59He's down there blending in with the rug.
00:01:02Anyway, he's taking a nap.
00:01:04And we are on our way to Saratoga.
00:01:08Zoe, last time this happened, you got lost in Utah.
00:01:10I hope you have your better maps or GPS this time.
00:01:15Yeah, that's what you get for driving a Jag, right?
00:01:17It blew up in Utah, in St. George, on 4th of July weekend a couple of years ago.
00:01:22So that's now gone.
00:01:24And hopefully I'll get there in one piece.
00:01:28Well, I think the place for us to start this week was opening weekend.
00:01:31Well, the second opening weekend of the Saratoga meet.
00:01:34And some very interesting races.
00:01:37And why don't we start off with the Suburban?
00:01:40And I know Phileas Fogg won the race last year.
00:01:43Phileas, it's Phileas.
00:01:45Phileas, Phileas.
00:01:46I'm sorry.
00:01:47Calm down, Zoe.
00:01:49Phileas Fogg.
00:01:51And, you know, you don't get the Puma right, so we're even, okay?
00:01:58But anyways, he comes back out.
00:02:00And Kendrick Carmouche, you got to give him credit.
00:02:03He really knows how to ride a speed horse.
00:02:05And there was some other speed in the race.
00:02:07He didn't fool around.
00:02:08He just got the fog horse, Zoe, to the front, ran around the racetrack and won by 10.
00:02:15And for the second straight year, and, Zoe, kudos to trainer Gustavo Rodriguez.
00:02:21You don't hear a whole lot about him.
00:02:23But, boy, he's done a great job getting this horse to win this race.
00:02:27This is his name horse.
00:02:29He's always a big horse in the barn.
00:02:31He always works terrifically well at Saratoga.
00:02:34He loves Saratoga.
00:02:35Gustavo, if you don't know anything about him, he's the brother of Rudy Rodriguez.
00:02:40Gallup for Rudy for a long time, went out on his own.
00:02:42And this is his marquee horse, back-to-back runnings of the Suburban.
00:02:45Great ride by Kendrick.
00:02:47I guess Flavian decided he was going to sit off.
00:02:50Forged Steel took him out of his game.
00:02:53And Kendrick was loose on the lead.
00:02:54And any time Kendrick is loose on the lead, he is extremely dangerous on a horse who loves Saratoga.
00:03:01So it was a very good outcome.
00:03:03It really was.
00:03:05And Forged Steel didn't like that strategy of Flavian Pratt either.
00:03:09He was tossing his head around when Filius Fogg crossed in front of him.
00:03:14But Filius Fogg reminds me a little bit of Nick's go in that they were both sort of underrated during
00:03:23this stage of their careers.
00:03:24And maybe it was because they didn't have the blue-blooded connections or the blue-blooded pedigree.
00:03:30But they were both just pure runners.
00:03:32And this horse especially, Filius Fogg, when he can get a clear early lead, oh my gosh, is he double
00:03:39tough.
00:03:40Ten times in his life, he has had a lead of at least one length after the opening quarter mile.
00:03:47Seven of those times he won.
00:03:50He's previously recorded buyer speed figures of 105, 104.
00:03:54But I think he got a 108 in this spot.
00:03:58Wins by 10 lengths.
00:04:00I mean, very, very strong performance.
00:04:03And he can beat a lot of really good horses if they let him control the pace like that.
00:04:08But the Belmont Oaks kicked off those really good three-year-old grass races they have for fillies and boys.
00:04:16And Kensington Lane was the winner for trainer Donick O'Brien.
00:04:19Of course, the son of trainer Aiden O'Brien.
00:04:22Wins by a length of three quarters.
00:04:23But one of the stories was Abisheri, trained, of course, by Charlie Appleby, ridden by William Buick, was the 6
00:04:30-5 favorite.
00:04:32Joey, what a strange trip that horse had.
00:04:34He broke behind the field and then Appleby's rider, William Buick, rushed him up.
00:04:39Was he rank?
00:04:40Was Appleby doing that on his own?
00:04:42It was obviously a strategy that if that was his strategy, it certainly backfired.
00:04:48It was a strange ride because she didn't break well at all.
00:04:52And then she got rank and she kind of, he should have just let it go to the lead, if
00:04:57you ask me.
00:04:58I only saw the race once.
00:05:00I've not watched the replay.
00:05:01So, this is just from the initial stages that I saw.
00:05:05She broke slow.
00:05:07She went to run off.
00:05:08He let her run off.
00:05:09He should have just let her go right to the lead because she never settled.
00:05:12And then he tried to wrestle her back and that just wasn't happening.
00:05:15It's a complete toss for me.
00:05:17Look, William Buick is obviously a world-class rider.
00:05:20He's one of the best.
00:05:21It may be the best in the world.
00:05:22Who knows?
00:05:23It's very subjective.
00:05:24And he's ridden so many unbelievable races in the United States.
00:05:27This was not one of them.
00:05:29It was a horrible ride by Buick to just blow by the field.
00:05:34Looked like Secretariat in the Preakness around the outside on the first turn to totally, you know, use up all
00:05:41the energy the horse had.
00:05:42And she had nothing for the stretch.
00:05:43But what was interesting to me is that how many times, and I'm guilty of this, too, in this particular
00:05:49race, how many times do we have to say that turf horses in Europe are superior to turf horses in
00:05:57the United States?
00:05:58It's just a given.
00:05:59And here you have two Europeans in the Belmont Osh.
00:06:03You've got Abashiri, and you've got Kensington Lane.
00:06:06You've got Donika O'Brien as part of Kensington's leg.
00:06:0923 to 1 on Kensington Lane.
00:06:12Unbelievable.
00:06:13And her form was not that bad.
00:06:16I mean, how many times is this going to have to happen before people catch on?
00:06:19I hope they don't, because I'm going to have to really start buckling down here on this European influence.
00:06:26And it also, by the way, as you're getting ready to get to, Bill, it also was a primary storyline
00:06:32in the Derby as well.
00:06:36Yes, in the Belmont Derby, once again, won by a European horse title role, and not necessarily the, you know,
00:06:43highly regarded horse.
00:06:45I believe he went off at 7 to 1.
00:06:46Yeah.
00:06:46Trained by Simon Crisford, once again, Charlie Appleby's Abbey Pacific did not, Pacific Avenue did not fare that well, finished
00:06:577th.
00:06:58But I guess the story here, Randy, was A, the European horse winning, but B, what a finish.
00:07:03With West End, nosing out West End kid.
00:07:05I know you were a big fan of, remember Mamba, that horse ran another sizzling race, just couldn't get up
00:07:12in time.
00:07:12But once again, you know, just like you said, we're seeing this.
00:07:16I don't think title role is a first string European horse, but he can come in and win our grade
00:07:22one Belmont Derby.
00:07:23And, you know, kudos to Simon Crisford.
00:07:26He's going to stay in one more race with the Crisfords.
00:07:29It'll probably be the Saratoga Derby.
00:07:32They're also looking at possibly the four-star day, and then he'll move over to Brendan Wall.
00:07:36So he's going to be a good one, though, because he certainly fits in at this level.
00:07:40Yeah, and title role, one thing that Christopher did that a lot of European trainers don't do when they come
00:07:50over to the States is he picked a veteran American rider in John Velasquez.
00:07:55Now, William Buick has gotten the job done many, many times over here.
00:07:58So has Ryan Moore.
00:07:59But to me, it's an advantage to go with a rider who is American when you're riding in the United
00:08:07States.
00:08:07And I thought Velasquez put on an outstanding ride on title role.
00:08:12But it's just a typical grass race in that they're just so exciting sometimes when you get these top-level
00:08:19grass horses, and they all fire, and three of them hit the wire right together.
00:08:24And really, I mean, the eighth-place horse was beaten a length, three noses, and three necks.
00:08:32It's unbelievable, the finish in this particular race, and it's what makes turf racing so exciting.
00:08:39It was a terrific race.
00:08:40Obviously, I was rooting for West End Kid for Scott Milwaukee because we bought him at OBS.
00:08:45But what a good race.
00:08:47What a brilliant race.
00:08:49And I can't wait to see all those horses come back at the Saratoga Derby.
00:08:53We've got a terrific turf division.
00:08:56The other graded stakes race on the Saturday card was the Sanford for two-year-olds.
00:09:01No surprise there.
00:09:02Booked, who was the favorite, looked on the buyer edge a little bit faster than the rest of the field
00:09:07coming in.
00:09:08But, Randy, I'm not surprised he won, but I'm a little surprised he won by six.
00:09:13He just dominated those horses.
00:09:15Yeah, two huge performances in the two-year-old stakes races.
00:09:18On Friday, Harper's Corner won the Schuylerville by five and three quarters and got a nice 88 buyer.
00:09:24And then Booked wins the Sanford by six.
00:09:27So, a couple of really promising two-year-olds to watch going forward.
00:09:31Book's a very nice horse.
00:09:32Didn't switch leads in the latter stages, but that's okay.
00:09:35He's kind of a big version of a two-year-old by Yalpon.
00:09:40Obviously, Steve trained Yalpon.
00:09:42He was brilliant at Saratoga.
00:09:43Who was the horse he got in the fight with down the lane at Saratoga?
00:09:49Remember he got bitten?
00:09:50Oh, that's right.
00:09:51Yes.
00:09:52I don't remember.
00:09:53Really, the horse came over and bit him in the final stages of the race, and he managed to win
00:09:59on the rail.
00:09:59It was a fantastic race.
00:10:02But that just shows you what kind of a racehorse Yalpon was, and he's passed that on to his babies.
00:10:07Randy's thinking he'll come up with it in just a moment.
00:10:11But if you looked at him physically, he doesn't look like your typical Yalpon, which is exactly what Steve Asperson
00:10:17alluded to in the pre-race and the post-race, was that he's kind of a bigger sort of Yalpon.
00:10:24It was forensic fire.
00:10:26Thank you very much.
00:10:27Yes.
00:10:28Yes.
00:10:29Good job.
00:10:29Forensic fire.
00:10:30And I think a lot of people have forgotten how tenacious Yalpon was to come through a win after that.
00:10:37I mean, I don't know if Katie can find it and we can replay it again in the edits, but
00:10:41that was a terrific race by Yalpon.
00:10:44One of the other big stories at Saratoga was a horrific spill on Friday with four horses going down and
00:10:50four jockeys.
00:10:52Zoe, it looked like it could have been one of those just catastrophic spills, but for the most part, everybody
00:10:57is okay.
00:10:58One horse by the name of I Love Giraffes broke a hip, be out four months.
00:11:03Javier Castellano didn't ride the rest of the weekend.
00:11:05He was just banged up, but he's back.
00:11:08He'll be back next weekend.
00:11:09And, you know, you see this and it's a reminder of how dangerous this sport is.
00:11:15And every time we have an outcome like this, we can't be more happy and optimistic that, for the most
00:11:22part, everybody walked away.
00:11:24Thanks be to God.
00:11:25Opening day, turning for home, four riders, four horses down.
00:11:30I'm just thankful I wasn't watching live, and I wasn't.
00:11:33I saw the aftermath and I knew everybody was, you know, semi-okay so I could watch it.
00:11:40I don't know who was at fault.
00:11:41I don't know if Paco could tilt.
00:11:42I don't know what happened.
00:11:44It was very, very hard to kind of see exactly what went on.
00:11:48Randy's probably watched it half a dozen times and might be able to shed some light.
00:11:53But I was just so thankful that most everyone was okay, so to speak.
00:11:58The replays have obviously been scrubbed from the Naira website and from all the race replay vendors and things like
00:12:05that.
00:12:06It does live on social media, which is where I saw it when I heard about it.
00:12:10It's unfathomable to me, watching that replay, that there were no serious injuries to the riders and that I love
00:12:21giraffes.
00:12:21She may have suffered a career-ending injury, they're not sure yet, but there were no horse fatalities because that
00:12:27was just a gruesome spill.
00:12:29And I know it started, Zoe, with Paco Lopez on I Love Giraffes, clipping heels, bumping into the rear end
00:12:37of the horse just to his inside, and then clipping heels at about the quarter pole.
00:12:41And I've already heard in the industry a lot of people pointing fingers at Paco Lopez because of his riding
00:12:49style with the loose reins.
00:12:52And people have always accused him of that, of being a dangerous riding style because you're not quite in as
00:12:58much control.
00:12:59And it just takes a beat longer.
00:13:02You know more about this than I would.
00:13:04I hate it.
00:13:05I can't stand the dangling reins.
00:13:07It doesn't help the horse.
00:13:09It doesn't help the rider.
00:13:10A horse takes a stumble.
00:13:11You can't grab a hold of him.
00:13:12I don't like it at all.
00:13:14And I've voiced my opinion.
00:13:16In this situation, I couldn't see a head-on replay.
00:13:20So, you know, it was hard to judge who came in, who came out, if Paco had a chance, you
00:13:26know, to recover and steer the horse around.
00:13:30I don't know.
00:13:31But I know that there's been a lot of criticism out there just because it was Paco involved,
00:13:38and he was the first one to go down.
00:13:42So, some business figures from the opening weekend of Saratoga.
00:13:45And I know it's going to change next year when they go back to Belmont.
00:13:49We're going to go back to the traditional 40-day meet.
00:13:52But there is too much of a good thing, and I think it's finally starting to show up.
00:13:55I mean, you essentially have three opening days.
00:13:57You have the Belmont Stakes opening day.
00:13:59You have the July 4th opening day.
00:14:00than you have coming up this weekend opening day.
00:14:04And Naira took it on the chin a little bit this year.
00:14:08All sources handle in 2025 was 83 million versus 69 million this year.
00:14:14Tendons went down from 52,000 to 46,000.
00:14:18There were some numbers they threw at me about CAW play.
00:14:21I got a little bit too murky to go into there.
00:14:24But, you know, Randy, are we seeing the possibility that, yes, there is too much of a good thing?
00:14:30I mean, those are pretty sharply down numbers.
00:14:34Well, if those numbers are accurate, the CAW play was down 40%.
00:14:38I saw that, yes.
00:14:40We can only assume it's because of some of the safeguards that David O'Rourke and Naira have put in
00:14:47to, you know, to sort of assuage some of the criticisms of rank-and-file players about the late odds
00:14:53drops and things like that.
00:14:55If that's the case, I mean, kudos to Naira for really being at the forefront of trying to correct those
00:15:02sorts of things.
00:15:03If the CAW had been the same, I think, as it was last year, you know,
00:15:09I don't think we'd be talking about the kind of drops that we saw.
00:15:13So perhaps it's a bit unfair, but great racing, nonetheless, and good weather, and that helped as well.
00:15:20We're going to take a commercial break.
00:15:22When we come back, you're going to hear from Matt Bernier, late of FanDuel TV.
00:15:25He's going to join us as the Gainesway guest of the week.
00:15:28Stay with us.
00:15:29The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:33Last week, we had Steve Asmussen on the podcast talking about how much he thinks magnitude is the best horse
00:15:39in the world.
00:15:39And you know where he has purchased Keeneland September for a bargain $450,000.
00:15:46This year, September yearling sale begins on Monday, September 14th.
00:15:50A little over a month later, Keeneland will host the championship sale on October 28th on the eve of the
00:15:56Breeders' Cup.
00:15:57It's an invitation to play at the highest level.
00:16:00Who doesn't want to do that?
00:16:01Make plans to attend both sales.
00:16:03We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:07We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:16:12So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.
00:16:16That's why we come to work every day.
00:16:19Obsess over every single detail.
00:16:24Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.
00:16:28And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.
00:16:33Keeneland. Every moment matters.
00:16:37Now for the fastest course of the week brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:16:43So what's better than two fills?
00:16:44How about ten fills?
00:16:46That's how many two fills first crop yearlings are on offer at the upcoming phasing Tipton July sale.
00:16:54Those ten yearlings are the most of any sire in a sale where yearlings are always chosen for their precocity.
00:17:00And of course, two fills had a nice dose of precocity himself.
00:17:05He was a two-time stakes winner as a two-year-old, including the grade three Street Sense stakes at
00:17:12Churchill Downs.
00:17:12You'll recall Sovereignty won the Street Sense by five lengths when he was a two-year-old.
00:17:18Two fills won it by five and a quarter lengths.
00:17:21Two fills now stands at Windstar for a bargain fee of just $7,500.
00:17:28Now, the fastest horse of the week, we have already talked about the win in this Suburban at Saratoga on
00:17:34opening weekend by Phileas Fogg.
00:17:36I think I said earlier that he got a 108 buyer speed figure.
00:17:40I ticked it up by one point.
00:17:42He actually ran a 107 in that 10-link victory.
00:17:46Phileas Fogg had just won the Suburban the year before, desperately hanging on by a head over Antiquarian.
00:17:53Well, he was much better than Antiquarian in this year's Suburban, although Antiquarian didn't get off to the best start.
00:17:59So for the first time, our fastest horse of the week, Phileas Fogg with his 107 buyer.
00:18:10We welcome now the Gainesway Guest of the Week, and it's Matt Bernier, and he's wearing a hat, and he
00:18:14wears many hats in the TV and broadcast field.
00:18:19He works with Randy Moss and that team on NBC Sports for their Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup coverage.
00:18:25But I think he might be best known for his work with FanDuel TV.
00:18:29And Matt, as everybody knows, this is not a good time for FanDuel TV.
00:18:34All things getting down to the bottom line, they're going to pull the plug on at the end of 2027.
00:18:39And a lot of people, yourself included, have been laid off.
00:18:43And they're going to go with less on-air commentators going forward.
00:18:48When you got that original memo telling you and others what was the future of FanDuel TV and what your,
00:18:55in particular, your future was,
00:18:57A, did you see that coming, and what kind of kick in the stomach was that?
00:19:01Well, first, thanks for having me on, guys.
00:19:03I can't say I saw it coming.
00:19:06I don't know many that did.
00:19:08And even if you thought perhaps there was an inkling at some point in the future,
00:19:11I don't think any of us thought it would be now.
00:19:15And I've had enough people kind of ask me about it.
00:19:18And I'm of the opinion that who am I to suggest what a company should or shouldn't do or someone
00:19:23should or shouldn't do, right?
00:19:24If they decided this was the best move going forward, then that's their prerogative, unfortunately, for me and some others.
00:19:31It's definitely we're the ones that will take a bit of the brunt of it.
00:19:33But when it happens, it happened on a Friday morning when we were in South Florida.
00:19:37There was an NBC show that Saturday as well.
00:19:40And I was on site at Gulfstream.
00:19:42And we just kind of needed to regroup a little bit afterward.
00:19:44But, yeah, you have that sort of dazed moment of am I hearing all this correctly, trying to process it
00:19:50while also not chiming in on the meeting,
00:19:53saying, can you repeat that three or four more times just to make sure that I'm comprehending it all?
00:19:57But, yeah, I mean, it's anybody that's gone through this.
00:20:00And I think that's the other thing that for me personally, I've gone through a layoff in the past at
00:20:05the racing form a number of years ago.
00:20:07So it's not a comfortable feeling.
00:20:09But at the same time, I think the sooner you can kind of come to terms with the reality that
00:20:14things are about to change,
00:20:16the sooner you can kind of take that step forward to whatever may be next down the road for you.
00:20:21So I tried to kind of be, I don't want to say positive.
00:20:25There's only so much that you can say, you know, good about it at the time when you're involved.
00:20:29But I tried not to dwell on it too much.
00:20:31I tried to kind of dust myself off and say, OK, well, one page we turn, we move on to
00:20:37the next one.
00:20:38Well, that's a good attitude to have.
00:20:39It's obviously not good news for people like yourself, so many of you who are involved with the network,
00:20:44and also for the sport in general.
00:20:48How long were you working for FanDuel and did FanDuel slash TVG have anything to do with sort of formulating
00:20:57your original interest in horse racing?
00:21:00Yeah, very much so.
00:21:01So, Randy, this would have been, I've been here for about three and a half years or was with FanDuel
00:21:06for about three and a half years from my official start date full time.
00:21:10I had done a few things prior to that with them.
00:21:12And I would make some runs back and forth from Boston to L.A. for a week or so at
00:21:16a time.
00:21:16But that was before COVID and things changed.
00:21:19So all in, I had been there for about three and a half years.
00:21:21And kind of going back to my starting off point with the industry as a whole, I didn't really grow
00:21:27up paying attention to horse racing.
00:21:29And I'm not even ashamed to say that.
00:21:31I think a lot of people just assume we're all born into it or you come into it growing up,
00:21:35going to the racetrack.
00:21:36That simply wasn't the case for me.
00:21:38I don't think I paid attention to a Triple Crown race probably until mid-2000s, late 2000s.
00:21:44I graduated high school in 2007.
00:21:46And when I went to college, which was only a town away from where I grew up, I would go
00:21:51back and forth because I didn't want to have any of the dining hall food.
00:21:54And we had a sports package primarily for European soccer.
00:21:59And TVG happened to be part of it.
00:22:01And I was just home one night going through the channels.
00:22:03And there was a harness race on.
00:22:05I don't remember exactly which track it was.
00:22:07But I couldn't figure out why certain horses were certain odds.
00:22:11And that just sort of sparked my interest.
00:22:13I've always had a little bit of a gamble in me.
00:22:15And one thing led to another.
00:22:16You start reading books and you start doing your homework and doing research.
00:22:19And very quickly, you realize from a gambling standpoint and sort of a, I don't want to say an intellectual
00:22:24standpoint, but there's definitely that part of it, a puzzle piece to it, as opposed to just sitting there saying,
00:22:29you know, give me red on the roulette table.
00:22:33There was definitely a little bit of input that went into this about making decisions and how the odds came
00:22:37about.
00:22:37So without that night going back home to my parents' house and happened to stumble across some harness race, whether
00:22:44it was from Yonkers or the Meadowlands, I certainly wouldn't be here.
00:22:48I wouldn't have gotten to this point.
00:22:49How much does it concern you that now that possibility might be lost for someone else who was never exposed
00:22:58to it before?
00:22:59Yeah, it's definitely something that, you know, piques your interest and not necessarily in a positive way,
00:23:05just simply because I know the entry point for so many people was TVG and FanDuel TV.
00:23:12And I think the good news is for the industry, if we're trying to, you know, silver linings,
00:23:18it does seem like there are other entities trying to step up and put some more things together.
00:23:21So while one chapter may be ending, maybe this does mean the expansion of things for a network like Fox,
00:23:28along with Naira and some other tracks that may be getting together.
00:23:31Maybe there's other things that come along.
00:23:32The NBC crew is still going to continue along as well.
00:23:36So I'm hopeful that that void will be filled.
00:23:39I don't know that immediately it'll be filled quite to the sort of expansive nature it was with TVG and
00:23:46FanDuel TV.
00:23:47And I think that was always the thing that made that network so successful was from start to finish,
00:23:53from noon Eastern to, you know, midnight Eastern.
00:23:57You ran the gambit.
00:23:58You went from thoroughbreds starting at one o'clock on the East Coast to quarter horses kicking off out West,
00:24:05harness mixed in throughout the day.
00:24:06And really, you could kind of find your niche or find whatever spoke to you,
00:24:11whether it was the thoroughbreds, whether it was the quarters, whether it was, you know,
00:24:28takes the ball and runs with it, that they do something and they're proactive with it and recognize just how
00:24:33important it is.
00:24:34That while this piece is no longer here, we still have a void and a need for that.
00:24:38And hopefully somebody can put it together.
00:24:41Well, it will be a tremendous loss, but I'll tell you what else is a loss.
00:24:45What happened to the beard?
00:24:46You have the best beard in the horse race.
00:24:48Did that go with FanDuel?
00:24:49What's going on here?
00:24:51I do like the mustache, by the way.
00:24:53You know, I don't want to go as far as to call it a midlife crisis, but when things start
00:24:56to change, you go,
00:24:57well, I've got an opportunity to throw a bit of a curveball.
00:25:00My wife was away on a girls' trip one weekend in Arizona, and I told my daughters, they're four and
00:25:0518 months,
00:25:06and I said, dad's going to look a little different when he picks you up from daycare.
00:25:09And my oldest was like, what are you doing?
00:25:11I said, I'm going to shave the beard off, but don't tell mom.
00:25:13So then my wife got home and she was like, what are we doing?
00:25:15I can't leave you for a few days until I come back.
00:25:18Something's wildly different.
00:25:19But I'm sure the beard will be back at some point.
00:25:22So, Matt, what's next on the docket for you?
00:25:25Obviously, you do do some work for NBC.
00:25:28A lot of the FanDuel peeps we've seen already, especially this past weekend, at LaSalle, we had people popping up
00:25:35at LaSalle.
00:25:36Fox may have a little bit of a presence in Southern California, perhaps with the Pacific Classic.
00:25:41Are you going to dip your toe in the water there, or are you NBC all the way?
00:25:46Yeah, NBC all the way.
00:25:48And I think this is one of the things, too, that perhaps going back to when we all got the
00:25:52news that for me, while it wasn't welcome news, maybe it wasn't as jarring as it is for some of
00:25:58the folks that had been at TVG and FanDuel for the better part of 25 years.
00:26:02And that, you know, I've gone the freelance route in the past.
00:26:05And there were certain aspects of that that I missed greatly.
00:26:09You know, I used to write a lot.
00:26:10I didn't really have the bandwidth to do that when you're doing TV for all these hours, you know, five
00:26:15days a week, whatever the case may be.
00:26:16And for me and for many of you as well, we're traveling all the time.
00:26:21So I'm kind of looking forward to getting back into that sort of hired gun mode of, look, I'm happy
00:26:28to talk to anyone.
00:26:29But I at the same time, I do feel a little bit of flexibility and freedom to say, well, maybe
00:26:34I don't really want to do this or maybe it doesn't fit the best for my family with the kids
00:26:38and my wife.
00:26:39And, you know, not that I dislike where I live, but Maine is not the easiest place to get to
00:26:44and from as far as travels go.
00:26:46So, yeah, I guess maybe this isn't the best way to answer your question, Zoe.
00:26:50But I'm very much looking forward to kind of picking and choosing who we dance with.
00:26:56Matt, I want to take another twist on the whole saga.
00:26:59And you talked about how if TVG is not suitably replaced, TVG FanDuel is not suitably replaced.
00:27:05Maybe the next Matt Bernier won't become a fan of horse racing.
00:27:08But how about the wagering side of this?
00:27:11I mean, people tune into TVG slash FanDuel to watch, get opinions and then wager.
00:27:18And the TVG betting outlet is huge.
00:27:21And I'm wondering if, you know, obviously there's not going to be nearly as many eyeballs on TVG going forward,
00:27:27especially in 2027 when it's going to be nothing but track feeds.
00:27:30And then 2028 when it's going to be out of business altogether.
00:27:35Could we see a genuinely large decrease in total handle because of TVG, you know, not encouraging fans and not
00:27:44encouraging people to follow the Matt Berniers in their picks and to go to the windows?
00:27:48I think that's the million dollar question, right?
00:27:51Right. I've always been of the opinion that, you know, there are there's to me, there are so many different
00:27:56tiers of players, right?
00:27:58There is your very casual player who likes to turn the television on and whatever's on they're going to dive
00:28:03into.
00:28:03Then you've got your far more serious player who is pulling up, you know, I'll throw it from pulling up
00:28:09an RTN, pulling up a track feed, watching Santa Anita, watching Belmont Park whenever we get back there in the
00:28:15fall, in the fall, wherever it may be.
00:28:16Some of your smaller tracks early part of the week.
00:28:19And they're just locked into that circuit and that circuit only.
00:28:22So I'm going to be very interested.
00:28:24I know Ed DeRosa had put a few different things out there and it's still so early to have a
00:28:28definitive answer one way or the other.
00:28:29But the early returns would seemingly indicate that there is a meaningful sort of downturn as far as handle goes.
00:28:37Now, with the big meets starting up for the summer, you know, Saratoga is already in full swing.
00:28:42Del Mar is going to kick off here in, you know, 10 days time or whatever it may be.
00:28:45I don't know that the summer is going to be the best gauge for us just simply because I think
00:28:50those two tracks will do their business no matter what, because they're I don't want to say they're too large
00:28:55to fail, but they are the two sort of tent bearers, them and Keeneland for your boutiques.
00:28:59Everybody and their brother plays those.
00:29:01I think you'll really get a better sense when we get into the fall.
00:29:05Keeneland certainly helps.
00:29:06I know Belmont coming back helps as well.
00:29:08But maybe when the sort of summer hangover kicks in and you get a couple of weeks before people really
00:29:14lock in to focus on the Breeders' Cup, that'll be the first inkling.
00:29:17And I'm fascinated to find out if that if there is a tangible difference, because for, you know, we always
00:29:24hear from the one percent that are the loudest that we don't like you.
00:29:27You're an idiot.
00:29:28You don't know what you're talking about.
00:29:29There is still that 99 percent that watch and whether they agree with you or not, they're taking everything in
00:29:35and they are making wagers.
00:29:37And at the end of the day, there's no wagering.
00:29:39There's no game anymore.
00:29:40So, yeah, I'm certainly concerned.
00:29:43Alarmed would probably be the best way to put it to see what these numbers might look like.
00:29:47I would say you probably need a good four or five month sample to really draw any kind of conclusions.
00:29:52But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some sort of alarm bells going off saying, oh, boy, I
00:29:57hope this isn't I hope this isn't a major, major slide.
00:30:00Matt, when it was first announced, I believe it was late March that FanDuel was going to be phased out.
00:30:07And then it was going to be like a three month period late June when some of the layoffs would
00:30:12start to happen.
00:30:13Right.
00:30:14And those of us not involved with FanDuel during that period of time, we're just saying to ourselves, I mean,
00:30:19what what would morale be like?
00:30:22In a situation like that.
00:30:23What was morale like after that announcement?
00:30:28Somber, I think, is probably the best way to put it.
00:30:31You know, I think we all have enough respect for the industry and for ourselves that, you know what?
00:30:35OK, while the end of the road for some of us was the end of June and for some others,
00:30:39it'll be the end of November.
00:30:41You still want to go out there and do the best job that you can, regardless of the circumstances behind
00:30:46it.
00:30:46And I think also whether it's the right or wrong mindset, you also looked at it as opportunities to to
00:30:54show to other people.
00:30:56Look, I can I can do this if you need someone to, you know, do X, Y and Z.
00:31:01You need somebody to host. You need an analyst. You need a reporter.
00:31:03You need somebody that can identify a horse horse flesh.
00:31:06You know, whomever it may be. Raise your hand. I think we all looked at it as sort of an
00:31:10open audition where we can possibly show off what we're capable of if you hadn't been locked in prior to
00:31:16the news breaking.
00:31:16But, yeah, for the longest time and right up, especially for the past few weeks, it's definitely been a somber,
00:31:22somber mood counting down.
00:31:24I think the initial shock slowly wore off a little bit. And even for those of us that were done
00:31:30at the end of June, there was still a few month runway where you said, OK, well, we're we're here
00:31:36for another 12 weeks or whatever the number may have been.
00:31:38And then you got down to those final few and everyone started realizing, especially the people.
00:31:43I'm a bit of an anomaly in that I've been based here on the East Coast and I basically just
00:31:47traveled all over the place.
00:31:48The folks that were in Southern California and were into the studio every day and seeing the people behind the
00:31:54scenes.
00:31:54And I think that's the biggest thing. A lot of us talk to one another, the on air folks.
00:31:58But at the same time, we've got great relationships with all the people that make the thing operate, you know,
00:32:03whether it's producers, directors, camera folks, sound people, graphics, you name it.
00:32:07You dealt with all these people on a day to day basis.
00:32:10And I've always joked that some of the producers that I worked with and directors that I worked with, I
00:32:15never actually met them.
00:32:15But for the better part of four years, they were just voices in my head.
00:32:19But they felt like some of your best friends because you talked about people having children, people going through different
00:32:24things, getting married, whatever the case may be.
00:32:27It was just kind of all of us realizing that this this is about to change and some of us
00:32:31may never speak to one another again.
00:32:33So somber would be the best way to kind of button it up.
00:32:37Do you have a favorite moment working for FanDuel?
00:32:40Do you have one moment that sticks out and you're like, oh, man, that was awesome.
00:32:44Or one horse or just one particular thing that went on?
00:32:48I don't know that I have necessarily a singular moment that that I think is there was sort of my
00:32:54favorite.
00:32:55I I had many highs, you know, whether they be performances that we saw or, you know, sort of scores
00:33:02amongst the crew.
00:33:04Right. You know, I had I was fortunate to have some good betting days.
00:33:07People that we worked with, some other folks that had fantastic days as well.
00:33:10And I think that's another piece of the camaraderie that I'll miss most now that it for at least my
00:33:15chapter is come and gone that, you know, you're you're finding out who's alive to what and you're cheering them
00:33:22home.
00:33:22If I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm hopeful that you can seal the deal with whatever you've
00:33:27got alive, too.
00:33:27But I think from a horse racing standpoint and a performance standpoint, the one that probably sticks out the most
00:33:34and maybe it's not high on a ton of people's lists.
00:33:37But the rebound for fierceness in the Florida Derby was because he was so bad for just being brutally honest
00:33:45in his three year old return that I don't think anybody knew what you were going to get in the
00:33:49Florida Derby.
00:33:50You knew how good he was when he was right, but you also knew that he could throw in a
00:33:53dud.
00:33:54And I was on the set right there. Our set for FanDuel TV was right basically at the shoot when
00:33:59they were coming out from the, you know, the saddling area.
00:34:02And when you saw him open up at the top of the lane, we all just kind of turned and
00:34:06we're like, oh, oh, the big boy's shown up.
00:34:09And that's why I was so granted it ended up being totally incorrect.
00:34:12But going into the Derby, I said, there's just I can't I can't pick against him.
00:34:16If that version shows up, he's winning by five.
00:34:19Lo and behold, he didn't show up. But that was probably the one race that we all looked around and
00:34:23had that kind of like spine tingling moment saying, oh, boy, that was something else.
00:34:27There are many silver linings here, but, you know, we've seen so many times in business or heard about so
00:34:34many times in business where people show up for work and then the doors are locked.
00:34:38And the company is like, that's it. That's it. You're done.
00:34:40Man, at least the three month runway, as you put it, gives people a chance, gave people a chance to
00:34:46sort of make alternative plans and and and look for other avenues and things like that.
00:34:53You know? Yeah, very much so.
00:34:55And I think the other thing, too, I think it gave all of us a bit of time to process
00:34:58all of what was going on or what the coming months were going to look like.
00:35:03To your point, Randy, it wasn't like we just showed up and the lights were off and the whole thing
00:35:07was done.
00:35:07And we all had a little bit of a heads up. And again, some of the folks I don't want
00:35:11to speak for all of us, that the network's not totally done.
00:35:13They're going to go right through the end of November. So there's still folks there that are, you know, day
00:35:18in and day out, grinding it out.
00:35:19But I think it gave all of us an opportunity to also come together.
00:35:24You know, I'll never forget that final week there at Churchill Downs leading into the Derby, the final on-site
00:35:31experience for the Derby, for that crew.
00:35:33And we would have nights at the hotel just out front, everyone hanging out.
00:35:38And not to say that you wouldn't do that before, but I think we all looked at it.
00:35:42The best analogy I've made is it felt very much like senior year of high school, where, look, we're all,
00:35:47all parties are probably going to go off and do something.
00:35:50You just don't know where it's going to be.
00:35:52And the likelihood of all of us doing it together again, frankly, is fairly slim.
00:35:57So I think we all kind of took a little bit of an internal look and said, let's try to
00:36:01enjoy this.
00:36:02Let's make the most of it that we can and enjoy everyone's company while we still have it.
00:36:08Matt, before we let you go, I want to segue to one other thing, because I was doing my dill
00:36:13diligence and looking at your Twitter feed.
00:36:16And at one point you tweeted, Magnitude is better than Gunrunner.
00:36:22I want to hear.
00:36:23Wow.
00:36:24That's a nice statement, my friend.
00:36:26I would say just at this stage in the game, and I think that's the sort of stressor, is that
00:36:33Magnitude's got a lot still to do.
00:36:35If you take a look, this is really at this point in the game when Gunrunner kind of took his
00:36:39game to the next level.
00:36:40But through the Foster, if you look at the back half of their three-year-old campaigns through the Stephen
00:36:45Foster, they ran in all the same races.
00:36:47They went from the Traverse to the Pennsylvania Derby to the Clark.
00:36:51I know Gunrunner ran in a Breeders' Cup race and Magnitude did not.
00:36:54But then you come back with the Razorback and you go over to Dubai and now you've got the Foster.
00:36:58And the races that Magnitude has run and won compared to those that Gunrunner did at the same juncture,
00:37:05not only are they faster, but he's got more great ones, including the Dubai World Cup.
00:37:11And he beat, my estimation, and I guess it's in the eye of the beholder, but I think on speed
00:37:15figures,
00:37:15we're talking about it from sort of a buyer standpoint, he beat more talented horses.
00:37:20I mean, you take a look.
00:37:21As much as I love the FNXs and the opportunities of the world that Gunrunner defeated,
00:37:24they pale in comparison to the Forever Youngs and the Sovereign Tees and the Baezes and the White Barrios.
00:37:32So the caveat is, again, that stressor that Gunrunner then ripped off quite a run for the rest of the
00:37:39campaign.
00:37:40If I'm not mistaken, it was the Whitney, it was the Woodward, the Breeders' Cup classic,
00:37:43and then he wrapped things up with the Pegasus.
00:37:46To suggest if Magnitude goes and does that and he does it against the caliber of competition that is still
00:37:52in training
00:37:53and is still going well and seemingly getting better, boy, I don't know.
00:37:56I think it's going to be kind of difficult to sit there with a straight face and suggest that he's
00:38:01not at least every bit as talented,
00:38:03if not more so.
00:38:04He still does need something to find.
00:38:05And I brought up sort of the speed figures that he's earned.
00:38:08I believe his 114 is better than Gunrunner's high at this point.
00:38:11I think it was 110 or somewhere thereabouts.
00:38:13And we know he ended up with that 120, which to me is sort of that line of demarcation
00:38:17between the absolute best of the best and the exceptionals.
00:38:22He's still got a bit to find there, but for him to run as fast as he has already and
00:38:25beaten who he's beaten,
00:38:27I don't know, through beginning of July of their four-year-old campaigns,
00:38:30I think it's reasonable to think that Magnitude might be better than Gunrunner.
00:38:35Well, Matt, you're very good at what you do.
00:38:37I'm sure you will land on your feet.
00:38:39And in the meantime, of course, we'll be watching you closely,
00:38:41along with Randy Moss and that whole team and Jerry Bailey on the NBC broadcast.
00:38:46Thank you so much for your time and your candor about the end of FanDuel TV.
00:38:50And thank you for being the Gainesway Guest of the Week here on our TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:38:55I appreciate it, guys.
00:38:56Thank you so much.
00:38:57Thank you, Matt.
00:38:57Our Guest of the Week, Matt Bernier, was brought to you by Gainesway,
00:39:02home to the dominant graded stakes winner, Chargit.
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00:39:16In that race, he earned a career-high 111 buyer.
00:39:19He also had a 106 buyer in his Suburban Stakes win, winning that one by four and three-quarters lengths
00:39:26at a mile and a quarter, tying the highest figure of all horses going a mile and a quarter in
00:39:312023.
00:39:32And by the way, Chargit is by Tappit out of an Indian Charlie Mare.
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00:42:01Welcome back.
00:42:02That was a really good interview with Matt Bernier.
00:42:05He was very professional, and I like the fact that he didn't feel sorry for himself, Randy.
00:42:10And also, you've worked with him.
00:42:12He's a very talented guy.
00:42:14I think he's going to land on his feet.
00:42:16But it doesn't overshadow the point that there's an awful lot of people out of work at FanDuel TV,
00:42:21and a lot of them probably will not get jobs within the racing industry.
00:42:25I don't think that's going to be a problem for Matt.
00:42:27But, you know, and some of the things he said about will Handel go down, I thought was very interesting.
00:42:34So, he had some very interesting things to say.
00:42:37Yeah.
00:42:37I mean, things are – it's very much in flux right now.
00:42:40We don't know exactly what's going to be – what's going to happen to that particular niche post-FanDuel.
00:42:48Who's going to step in?
00:42:49Is it going to be the same?
00:42:50Is it going to be better conceivably?
00:42:52Who knows?
00:42:54There's a lot of questions that are still out there that need to be answered and that we'll find out
00:43:00about later.
00:43:01But, yeah, Matt is a very, very talented guy.
00:43:03You heard how articulate he is.
00:43:04And I can tell you firsthand, A, what a good handicapper he is, and B, and a better, and B,
00:43:11how hard he works at it.
00:43:13I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with Matt.
00:43:15And we get into the deep, deep weeds of handicapping, questions about the speed figures and things like that.
00:43:22Really talented guy, and he'll be fine.
00:43:25Very smart.
00:43:27Very, very smart.
00:43:29And just a nice guy, you know.
00:43:31Can I say he looks hot with his mustache?
00:43:34Can I say that?
00:43:35I think he looks hot with his mustache.
00:43:37Of course you can, Zoe.
00:43:38Yeah, of course I can.
00:43:39Yeah.
00:43:39I like it.
00:43:40Make sure he keeps it.
00:43:42Okay.
00:43:43All right.
00:43:44So there was a story in the TDN this week where Tim Wilkin talked to Jose Ortiz.
00:43:49And Jose Ortiz says, wait a minute.
00:43:51I haven't wrapped up the Eclipse Award yet.
00:43:54I beg to differ.
00:43:56I don't care that we're only into the first week in July.
00:43:59This man has won the Kentucky Derby, the Belmont, the Dubai World Cup, the Stephen Foster with
00:44:05magnitude.
00:44:06He's won the Woody Stevens with Englishmen.
00:44:08He's won four graded stakes races with Lagnos.
00:44:11Now, ironically, he and his brother, Irad, are in a neck-and-neck race for leading money.
00:44:19Irad has $21,990,000.
00:44:21Jose right behind it, $21,924,000.
00:44:23Also worth noting that Irad did not ride that weekend at Saratogi.
00:44:28He was serving a suspension.
00:44:29Also, Jose rides nitrogen in the Octon Fips.
00:44:34I know anything can happen.
00:44:36Irad could go on a tear.
00:44:37Flavian Pratt could go on a tear.
00:44:39God forbid Jose could get injured.
00:44:42But he's in the middle of one of the superstar memorable years that we've seen.
00:44:48I don't think he's overshadowed by Iran anymore, Randy.
00:44:51And if we could bet on it today, our money would be betting on Jose Ortiz to be the Eclipse
00:44:57Award winner.
00:44:58I know it's early, but how are you going to top these accomplishments?
00:45:01Yeah.
00:45:01I mean, if the voting were held today, he'd be a solid favorite.
00:45:04If there were awards for the first six months of the year, he'd win it hands down.
00:45:09Chances are he's going to win the Eclipse Award.
00:45:12But, I mean, we're just through the end of June, and now we're starting the beginning of
00:45:16July.
00:45:17July, and like you said, if Irad goes on a complete heater at Saratoga and wins the
00:45:23Travers and wins a whole bunch of great ones and then has a fantastic fall and wins five
00:45:28Breeders' Cup races or six in two days, you know, there's still a lot of racing left to
00:45:34be finished.
00:45:36But, yeah, I mean, Jose's been doing great so far.
00:45:38That's for sure.
00:45:40I already said it last week.
00:45:41Slam dunk.
00:45:43There you go, Zoe.
00:45:44I like that kind of confidence.
00:45:46And you really think if, now, a million things can go wrong, but you really think if they
00:45:51meet in the Breeders' Cup Classic, he'll pick Golden Tempo over Magnitude?
00:45:55I don't.
00:45:55I think he'll pick Magnitude.
00:45:58I do.
00:46:00Okay.
00:46:00Because there's not a chance that Magnitude, well, I doubt Magnitude will run next year,
00:46:04right?
00:46:05There's always a chance that Golden Tempo will.
00:46:08Mm-hmm.
00:46:11All right.
00:46:11We will keep that in mind.
00:46:13Okay.
00:46:13We're going to take a break.
00:46:14When we come back, we'll take a look at the weekend racing coming up this Saturday at
00:46:19Saratoga, a couple other spots along the way.
00:46:21And I'll also have some YouTube comments for you and look back at the life and times of
00:46:28Mary Rapinelli.
00:46:29Stay with us.
00:46:31Nominations for the Thoroughbred Industry Employee Awards are now open through July 13th.
00:46:36Take a moment to nominate a member of your staff, recognizing and rewarding their hard
00:46:41work and dedication.
00:46:42Simply visit www.tiea.org.
00:46:49People at the racetrack so oftentimes, you know, don't get the spotlight that they deserve.
00:46:54There's so many great people back here.
00:46:56I mean, that work really, really hard.
00:46:58You know, they're back here seven days a week, you know, 24-7, you know, working hard every
00:47:03day.
00:47:03We're so grateful to be a part of this industry.
00:47:06They love their job.
00:47:07They love the horses.
00:47:08A little bit of recognition goes a long way.
00:47:10It's not too late.
00:47:12Nominate.
00:47:12Go to t-i-e-a.org.
00:47:22Be a smarter better with First TV, the best horses.
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00:47:50The TDN Writer's Room Work of the Week is brought to you by First TV.
00:47:54Micropole's Kentucky Derby's second and Belmont Stakes' third, Renegade, was on the work tab
00:47:59this weekend at Saratoga.
00:48:01This is Renegade on the outside working in company with Grande in 49.54 seconds for trainer
00:48:07Todd Pletcher.
00:48:08You'll recall that after winning the Arkansas Derby, Renegade went off the second choice in
00:48:12the Kentucky Derby and got nipped on the wire by Golden Tempo.
00:48:16Todd Pletcher said his next start would be in the August 1 gym.
00:48:19Danny Stakes at Saratoga.
00:48:21Well, Saratoga goes a quiet weekend of racing.
00:48:24No grade ones.
00:48:25We have the Cress.
00:48:26The fifth race going five and a half four longs on the turf.
00:48:29And then we have the Bowling Green.
00:48:30Another grade two later on in the card.
00:48:32Mile and three-eighths on the turf.
00:48:35In the Cress, I'll take a little bit of a long shot in here.
00:48:38A horse by the name of Suna, trained by Kent Sweezy.
00:48:40Horses on a roll of in one three straight.
00:48:43Also, there's not a ton of pace in this race.
00:48:46So I think with Joel Rosario, perhaps Suna can get to the front, get a comfortable trip.
00:48:50But I think that Italian soiree coming off a big second in the Intercontinental.
00:48:55Randy is the horse to beat.
00:48:57Yeah, definitely.
00:48:58The great emotion trainee.
00:48:59I mean, you know, the horse on numbers, the runner-up finish in the Intercontinental tops the list.
00:49:08Roja was the winner of that particular race at Saratoga.
00:49:12That was June the 4th.
00:49:13That was on Belmont weekend.
00:49:15And Roja, trained also by Graham Motion, is not running in this particular spot.
00:49:22So the staple-made Italian soiree certainly looks like the one to beat.
00:49:26But, hey, Suna, you know, speed is dangerous.
00:49:30On dirt or in turf sprints.
00:49:33So Suna has won three in a row and is certainly not without a good shot.
00:49:37Zoe, you can take a pass on this one as you're out in the middle of Montana or something with
00:49:41Doodle.
00:49:42Yeah, I'll take a pass on this.
00:49:44But knowing Italian soirees in there with Graham Motion, I'll just go there.
00:49:48Okay.
00:49:49All right.
00:49:50A bowling green and interesting race.
00:49:52And there's a fascinating horse in here.
00:49:54And if you talk about a horse that's been running against good company and why don't I have it in
00:50:01my past performances, this is the someone help me here, please.
00:50:07The horse shipping in from Dubai?
00:50:10Fort George.
00:50:12All right.
00:50:13Randy, take it away with Fort George.
00:50:15Look at the – I somehow did not bring that page of his past performances with me.
00:50:21But I'm sure you can tell us all about the company this horse has been running in, including some of
00:50:27the best horses in the world.
00:50:29But most specifically, the last two starts, if you go back to his race before last in February in Maidan,
00:50:36he was second.
00:50:37He was beaten a length and a half by a horse named Rebels Romance, who I think we're all extremely
00:50:43familiar with on this side of the pond.
00:50:46And then in his last start in the $5 million Dubai turf on the Dubai World Cup undercard, didn't run
00:50:53quite as well.
00:50:54He was ninth.
00:50:55He was beaten five and three-quarters lengths.
00:50:57But the horse that beat him was a horse named Ombudsman, who, of course, came back and was extremely impressive
00:51:04at Royal Alaska.
00:51:05So Fort George, again, we talked about it earlier.
00:51:08When you get these Europeans that ship over here that have – especially the ones that have company lines like
00:51:15Fort George has.
00:51:16If Fort George is four to one or nine to two or something like that, I would consider that to
00:51:22be a bargain on paper.
00:51:24Watch out for a horse in there by the name of Old Crazy Bone as well.
00:51:27Mike Maker just loves to win these mile and three-eighths turf races.
00:51:31Had a prep at a mile and a sixteenth.
00:51:33I think the race that was way too short for him ran a good second.
00:51:36I think along with the European horse we've been talking about, he's someone to keep an eye on.
00:51:43So we get also these B-level derbies.
00:51:48And we actually have two this week, the Iowa Derby and the Indiana Derby.
00:51:52Never quite understood why they ran them on the same day.
00:51:56But Randy Moss, great racehorses for 400.
00:52:01Who won the Iowa Derby last year?
00:52:04Oh, are you kidding?
00:52:05I have no idea.
00:52:06Oh, my goodness.
00:52:07You're kidding me.
00:52:08No.
00:52:10Magnitude.
00:52:11Who?
00:52:12Magnitude.
00:52:13Oh, there you go.
00:52:14There's his comeback race.
00:52:15Yeah, his first start since the risen start, correct?
00:52:18Yes, yes.
00:52:20So that is the claim to fame of the Iowa Derby.
00:52:24Don't think there's any magnitudes in here.
00:52:26Bob Baffert has cross-entered Desert Gate in both the Iowa and Indiana Derby.
00:52:34He has been nice enough to text me to say he will be running all of his horses in Iowa.
00:52:39So Desert Gate, a little bit of a disappointment in the Ohio Derby.
00:52:44Randy, can he make up for it here in the Iowa Derby?
00:52:46Oh, yeah, he'll be a pretty solid favorite.
00:52:49I mean, he's 9 to 5 on the program line, and he's definitely the horse to beat.
00:52:53But let me just maybe go in a different direction.
00:52:55We'll see what the price is going to be on the horse that comes out of the Preakness.
00:53:00Two of them actually ran in the Preakness, and they're in posts 1 and 2, The Hell We Did and
00:53:06Krupper.
00:53:07And the whole talk at Laurel all week on Preakness Week was what a beautiful physical specimen The Hell We
00:53:15Did was.
00:53:18And I don't think he broke all that well in the Preakness.
00:53:22He was 11th out of 14 early in the race, much further back than he needed to be.
00:53:27He sort of ran a clunker in that spot.
00:53:30But now he bounces back against a much easier spot in the Iowa Derby.
00:53:36No disrespect intended to Desert Gate.
00:53:39But he's got the rail.
00:53:40He'll save ground.
00:53:41He'll be a much better price than Desert Gate.
00:53:43So I'm very interested to see how The Hell We Did runs in this race.
00:53:50Moving on to the Indiana Derby, another interesting race.
00:53:53To me, it looks like two horses are going to take most of the money.
00:53:56Our money man, second last time out to further ado in the mat win, beaten only two lengths by a
00:54:02very good horse.
00:54:03A leading change is going to take a lot of money with Irad Artiza, but I don't think 5 to
00:54:071 in the morning line is a legitimate price for that horse.
00:54:11He's broke its maiden by 6.5, got a 92 buyer.
00:54:16Randy, what about Creole Chrome as well?
00:54:18He just dominates Louisiana Breds, won a Louisiana Bred race at Evangelion by 18.
00:54:23He runs against Open Company.
00:54:26He's just not the same horse, but he's got some pretty good numbers.
00:54:28An interesting race, Randy.
00:54:30Yeah, Creole Chrome's got a really good number in his last start at Evangelion.
00:54:34Before that, he tackled Crude Velocity and Englishman in the Pad Day Mile, and he was up there close and
00:54:40backed up in the bluegrass.
00:54:42He was up there on the pace.
00:54:44It was a pretty robust pace.
00:54:46And further ado, of course, swallowed him up and swallowed the rest of the field up.
00:54:51But, yeah, Joe Sharp has chosen to try him in this spot.
00:54:55And at 6 to 1 or higher, I think Creole Chrome might be a pretty decent play.
00:55:00I think our money man is definitely the horse to beat.
00:55:02I'm a little skeptical of the Brad Cox trainee just because it's so difficult to go from a maiden special
00:55:09weight all the way up into a graded stakes race like this.
00:55:13But, you know, this is not the Kentucky Derby.
00:55:15It's the Indiana Derby.
00:55:18I think Joe Sharp's horse, Creole Chrome, definitely deserves a shot because Joe will throw horses in there.
00:55:26He's kind of a guy who's not scared of the odds, and he'll throw them in.
00:55:29Leading trainer at Churchill Downs just last week.
00:55:32So he's got a definite shot.
00:55:33But I do like what you said about our money man.
00:55:36I like him.
00:55:37He will be my top choice in that.
00:55:39Well, there's some sad news in racing this week.
00:55:42Mary Rampolini, who covered the Oakland Circuit and some of the other Midwest tracks for the Daily Racing Forum, passed
00:55:49away at age 53.
00:55:51Randy, I never got the pleasure to meet her, but reading in her obits, people just acted like she was,
00:55:57and I'm sure genuinely so.
00:55:59Just about the nicest person anybody ever met.
00:56:0253 is much too young to go, especially somebody who loved the game and apparently was a very good person.
00:56:09I'm sure you knew her well.
00:56:10What are some of your thoughts of Mary?
00:56:12I knew her pretty well.
00:56:14I mean, we both, you and I both, Bill, were in the newspaper business for a long time.
00:56:18And then toward the end of that part of my career, I sort of intersected with Mary in the press
00:56:26boxes at Oaklawn Park and at Lone Star Park.
00:56:29And, yes, you can say, and it would be accurate, that she's a very talented writer.
00:56:34She was even involved in writing children's books toward the end of her life.
00:56:38And, you know, she was raised around horse racing.
00:56:42She was a passionate, passionate fan of the sport.
00:56:48She worked for a long time for DRF and covered her beats with distinction.
00:56:56But even beyond all that, I mean, all that's true.
00:56:59But I think the most important thing to say about Mary Rampolini is what you said.
00:57:04You could search far and wide, and you will never find a nicer individual than Mary Rampolini.
00:57:12She was an absolute sweetheart, kind, generous, and, yeah, 53 years old, much, much, who's that?
00:57:24Honestly, when I read the rundown of what we were going to talk about, I had no idea that she
00:57:30had passed.
00:57:31I had to go to Twitter X and see exactly.
00:57:34I'm like, what the hell happened to Mary Rampolini?
00:57:37And just such shock.
00:57:39The first thing that shocked me, sepsis is a killer.
00:57:42Sepsis is the most awful thing you could ever get.
00:57:45I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it was quick because I looked at her Twitter feed.
00:57:49Her last post was five days ago.
00:57:52She was the nicest, most generous person you could ever meet.
00:57:56And the other thing that really shocked me, she was only 53.
00:58:00Now, I've been in the game a long time, and Mary has been in the game equally as long as
00:58:05me, if not longer.
00:58:07Not that she looked older.
00:58:09I just assumed that she was much older because of how long and how good she has been at her
00:58:17job.
00:58:18Just 53?
00:58:19Just an absolute shocker.
00:58:21You two both mentioned you were in the newspaper business.
00:58:23But Mary has a leg up on everyone else in the newspaper business.
00:58:27She has lived it.
00:58:28She has seen it.
00:58:29She's birthed old.
00:58:31She's done everything.
00:58:33You know, I hate to say it, but neither one of you two really has had their hands on any
00:58:38horses whatsoever.
00:58:39And Mary just had such brilliant insight, and she chose to put her pen to paper.
00:58:45It's just a goddamn shame.
00:58:47It really is.
00:58:48What a wonderful person she was.
00:58:51And she will certainly be missed.
00:58:53So, as we've been saying, ending up most of our recent podcasts, we'd love to get these comments on YouTube.
00:59:00People can post things on the YouTube site reacting to the previous week's or that week's podcast.
00:59:08And some really nice comments.
00:59:11This is from Kenny Neely7938.
00:59:13Thanks, guys.
00:59:15Capturing the joy with Steve Asmussen and the smile he had when speaking of his kids was fantastic and something
00:59:23I'll always remember about him.
00:59:25Yeah, that was really cool, Steve.
00:59:27We caught Steve Asmussen, a side of him that you don't normally see.
00:59:33And he was just so gregarious, magnanimous, and obviously very proud of both his sons, particularly Keith,
00:59:41is getting ready to marry Andy B. and Cohn, which is the racing equivalent of the Travis Kelsey-Taylor Swift
00:59:48marriage.
00:59:52Donald Bauer said,
00:59:53Boy, Donald, sovereignty isn't the horse he was last year, and Baeza would have won the Stephen Foster if he
01:00:00didn't get left at the gate.
01:00:02Steve Asmussen is wrong by saying magnitude proved he is the best horse in the world.
01:00:07Zoe, I thought I saw you shaking your head.
01:00:08You don't agree with Donald Bauer?
01:00:12Oh, no.
01:00:13We haven't seen the last sovereignty.
01:00:15Sorry, Donald.
01:00:17Well, you think you're going to agree with this comment because it's from David Walls.
01:00:22I met Zoe in the Atlanta airport a few days prior to the Kentucky Derby and talked racing over an
01:00:30adult beverage.
01:00:31Shocking that you were drinking, by the way.
01:00:36But, you know, we'll just have to look past that.
01:00:39She's a class act and super knowledgeable.
01:00:42So, David Walls, yes, she is.
01:00:44And thank you for summing up our very own Zoe Kapp.
01:00:48Let me tell you something about David Walls, right?
01:00:52So, I'm going through the Atlanta airport.
01:00:54My flight's delayed.
01:00:55There's a bar.
01:00:56There's one seat.
01:00:57It's David and his father.
01:01:00And they were just coming back from, I think they'd been playing some really famous golf course in Scotland.
01:01:07And been over there for a week playing golf.
01:01:09So, I've just grabbed a beer.
01:01:11I'm like, hey, do you mind if I sit here?
01:01:12I didn't know him from Adam.
01:01:13And we just started chit-chatting.
01:01:15And I just thought he was a casual fan.
01:01:18You know, he lives in Louisville.
01:01:19And he was going to Derby the next day.
01:01:21He reeled off off the top of his head every horse on the undercard, who they were trained by, who
01:01:27they were by.
01:01:28Like, he probably picked winners on half the card for Derby.
01:01:31He was absolutely amazing.
01:01:33You want to talk about a super intelligent super fan.
01:01:37That's David.
01:01:38And he had a very good mustache?
01:01:41He did not have a mustache.
01:01:42He had kind of like a five-day-old beard.
01:01:45Now, Matt Burnham needs to keep the mustache.
01:01:47That's hard.
01:01:48All right.
01:01:48All right.
01:01:49Well, David, thanks for writing in.
01:01:51And we encourage people to keep writing in.
01:01:52We can't read all the comments, obviously, on the air.
01:01:55But we pick out a couple each week to translate to our audience.
01:02:01Summer at Saratoga is always exciting for West Point thoroughbreds.
01:02:05But especially this year, it's already been productive for West Point.
01:02:09Counting Stars, of course, won the Grade 1 Acorn in dominant fashion.
01:02:14And now Counting Stars is being pointed for the Grade 1 Coaching Club American Oaks at Saratoga.
01:02:20That'll be on July 25th.
01:02:23And her trainer, Mark Cassie, who, by the way, is planning to run Nitrogen against males in the Whitney,
01:02:28has already said that if Counting Stars is especially impressive in the coaching club,
01:02:33he would consider running her against boys in the Traverse Stakes.
01:02:37If not, there's the Grade 1 Alabama.
01:02:39So that certainly is a good fallback.
01:02:42Meanwhile, this weekend, you'll have West Point's Grade 1 winner Carson Run
01:02:47starting in Saturday's Grade 2 Bowling Green Stakes for Miguel Clement.
01:02:52And also at Saratoga, Michael McCarthy is shipping Bullard from Churchill Downs.
01:02:56Actually, this is a Prairie Meadows for the Grade 3 Cornhusker Handicap.
01:03:02Bullard in the Cornhusker for West Point.
01:03:28West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:03:32Visit westpointtv.com.
01:03:36Thanks so much for tuning us in and viewing us.
01:03:38I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:03:42I want to thank our Gainsway Guests of the Week, Matt Bernier.
01:03:45And I also want to thank the people who work behind the scenes
01:03:47to really make this show look as good as it does.
01:03:50And that's Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:03:55We'll be back next week.
01:03:57Thanks again for tuning us in.
01:03:59See you then.
01:04:02See you then.