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Romantic love gets all the ink — but Ashton Lattimore is writing about something just as complicated. Her new book puts friendship and family at the center, and they're sitting down to talk about what it takes to document the relationships that shape us most.
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00:05Good, good, good. Thank you all for being here. We're talking about writing on relationships.
00:12Today I am here with author Ashton Lattimore. Thank you so much for being here, Ashton.
00:20Yes, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
00:23You're welcome. You're welcome. So we'll just jump right in. I'd love for you to share with
00:28us a little bit about you and your background. Okay. Because I know, so she is not only an
00:36amazing author, she's an attorney. She like, yeah, tell us all the things. Sure. So I started off as
00:43a lawyer. I started off as a journalist actually, and then switched to law and then switched back
00:48to journalism just because I love writing. And I think the way that I found my way into fiction
00:54was as a lawyer, you end up doing quite a bit of research for the writing that you need to
00:59do for
00:59briefs. And I just discovered a love of historical research. So that's how I ended up writing historical
01:04fiction. And how do you think that background beyond research, how do you think that background
01:14informs your approach to storytelling? Sure. So I think part of what we're talking about today
01:19is relationships. And so much of the law is about the breakdown of relationships. You end up in court
01:26against somebody because something has gone terribly wrong, whether it's a business relationship or a
01:30personal relationship. So just exploring the different ways that things can go right as well
01:36as go wrong between people within their relationships. I think the law informs a lot of that. And as a
01:42journalist, I just have a love of storytelling in all of its forms. So that shows up, I think,
01:47across the page in both of my books as well. Okay. So your next book, which is out the end
01:54of this
01:54month, I believe, Runner. Yes. Make note of that, everyone. It's about someone who's a rum runner.
02:02Yes. And the, what decade was it? When was it? It's in the 1920s. Prohibition era. Yes. During the
02:09prohibition era. Okay. And that alone resonated with me because my maternal grandfather sold moonshine
02:16in North Carolina, I think around the same time. Yeah. And, you know, it's, there are a lot of family
02:23stories and legends about that time, but it's a taboo topic, right? Because, you know, it was illegal then.
02:31And why were you both, how were you bold enough to say, I want to tackle this? I want to,
02:38you know,
02:38put this on the page and depict black people in this time? Because we hear a lot about white folk,
02:45like, yeah, in prohibition and how a lot of people got rich from it.
02:49I think that's part of the answer. I think so many of the prohibition era stories that we see
02:54on TV and in books are really centered around white characters. So to be able to take a prohibition
03:00story as taboo a topic as it is and put black folks at the center of it just felt really
03:06exciting
03:06to me. And it's also a prohibition era story set in an unusual location. I think we usually see
03:11prohibition era stories in New York and Chicago, sometimes in the South where people are making
03:16moonshine and selling moonshine. But runners set in Martha's Vineyard. And it's set during a period where
03:22a lot of the black community there and everybody else who were fishermen, who were whalers, who had
03:27these boats, had the ability to take those ships and turn them basically towards crime, you know,
03:32for lack of a better purpose. And that's the way people made their money. In a lot of ways,
03:37people survived the era. And it was also really nice to take that kind of taboo story and use it
03:43as a way into a community that people don't often hear too much about, both the early summer
03:48community in Martha's Vineyard and also the year round black community who lived there really for
03:53hundreds of years, even before black folks started summering there. Okay. And we're talking about
03:58relationships. When you think about relationships, though, on a bigger scale, more of a micro scale,
04:04in terms of community, in terms of class, like in Martha's Vineyard, there is the population of
04:11people, you know, who summer there and have, you know, their vacation homes there. But then there
04:16are people who live there year round who don't necessarily fall in the same tax bracket usually.
04:22Talk to us about writing about that dynamic and how people navigate that. Because even within the
04:28black community, we know we're not a monolith. Yes. And there are differences in our relationships
04:35based on class. Yeah, I think the opportunity, yes, yeah, to write across class lines is something
04:42that was important to me for Runner and for my first book, All We Were Promised, which is set in
04:47antebellum Philadelphia and also has characters who are kind of colliding with each other, you know,
04:52some from the upper class, some who are more working class. But to tell kind of a Martha's Vineyard
04:56story that's not just about the black elite, but is also about the working class folks who lived there
05:01in the 1920s and earlier and how they might have interacted with one another and, you know, maybe clashed in
05:07some ways and formed relationships across those lines. It was just a really interesting space to
05:12explore. And the way that the story unfolds, the two protagonists, one is someone who is summering
05:18there and she is part of one of these elite black families. She's from Boston. That's where a lot of
05:23the early summer families in Martha's Vineyard came from. And then the other main character is someone
05:28who lives there year round. So they're from two different places, two different classes. They interact with the
05:33island in completely different ways. But the two of them end up locked together, basically on a crime
05:38spree, for the lack of a better term, after our main character, Lena, takes over her father's
05:44rum running operation when he disappears in a shipwreck. So you have this sort of upper class
05:49woman who can navigate all these clubs and, you know, the jazz and the cities in Boston and New York
05:54where they're going to sell their liquor. And then you have Lena who, you know, she's the daughter of a
05:59fisherman. She's working class. And there's a lot of really interesting fascination between the two
06:04of them, admiration, curiosity, some envy that I think shows up in really interesting ways in these
06:10cross-class relationships. But part of it's also just education. You know, it's exactly like you said,
06:15the black community is not a monolith. There have been black elite for almost as long as black folks
06:20have been in this country. And there have been working class black folks as long as this country has
06:24been around. So just taking the time to introduce people to communities they might not otherwise have
06:29seen before, especially in historical fiction, is something that I love to do.
06:35Thank you for doing that.
06:38You touched on the dynamic between the two main characters in Runner.
06:43One thing that I notice we don't talk about nearly enough
06:50is the beauty of same-sex women's relationships, right? Platonic relationships, that is. So there are
06:59hundreds of rom-coms about like, you know, a breakup between a romantic partnership. There are so many
07:10songs about, you know, someone getting their heart broken, right? But we don't talk about what it's like
07:17to have your heart broken when you and your best friend of the same
07:21sex are no longer rocking with each other. Like, that's huge.
07:25Yes.
07:25So in talking about, you know, writing about relationships,
07:29how do you approach
07:32those types of relationships that aren't romantic? And we, you know,
07:35romantic relationships are definitely important too, and we need to read about those and see ourselves seen
07:40in that way. But there's so much,
07:43there's so many layers and there's so much depth to our sisterhoods that isn't necessarily explored
07:51as much in, you know, in literary fiction. So yeah, talk about that, please.
07:56Sure. I think I approach it with really deep reverence for the sisterhood that exists between
08:01two women or multiple women, especially because for so many of us, those relationships, platonic
08:07friendships are the longest standing relationships that we have. My best friends from college,
08:13there's a little sisterhood group, there are about seven of us. We've been together walking through
08:17life for 20 years at this point. I've known them longer than I've known my husband, and you know,
08:22they'll be around for the rest of my life. So I think having stories that really capture what it
08:28means for somebody to walk through all those different seasons of life with you, to grow up with you,
08:33to become mothers alongside you, to walk through a career with you, to experience, you know, getting
08:39married, breaking up, whatever it is, those relationships, those sisterhoods are really what
08:44stick with us often more, more than anything else. So putting those at the center of my stories
08:50just felt very natural, I think. Both of my books, they have romances, they are not romances,
08:57because, you know, they may or may not have a happy ending, I won't spoil it for you.
09:01So, but, you know, the romantic relationships are important, but I think that that sisterhood,
09:07and showing the ways that, as you said, it can be really heartbreaking when they break down,
09:11and how that shows up in a story, just can be really cathartic for readers to read about,
09:17just to recognize that those relationships matter just as much, if not more.
09:22So you write about, well, you have thus far written about historical fiction,
09:27and you mention how much, you know, the research piece is important. How do you, like, prepare for
09:37writing a book? Do you just go into full-on, like, I don't know, like, breakout, I was gonna say
09:44encyclopedias, that's how old I am, but, like, what do you, do you sort of create these profiles for
09:50your characters, like, kinds of, this is what she would like, this is what she doesn't like,
09:55or, like, tell us about that process for you.
09:58Sure, so it starts with the historical research for me, because before I can create a character,
10:03I kind of needed to know that such a person could have existed. So they're often inspired by
10:08historical figures, they're not necessarily biographical, but they might be inspired by
10:11someone who really exists, and that's a place where I can start to kind of build their world.
10:16What kind of rooms would they have walked through? What kinds of things would they have done with
10:19their spare time? What would they like? What kind of problems would they have faced? So that's kind
10:24of how I start building out the characters. So it's a lot of just research rabbit holes, which honestly
10:28is the most fun part for me, sometimes even more than the writing, because, you know, writing can be
10:34really tough, but research is just reading, and I think a lot of us, before we're writers, we're readers,
10:39so getting a chance to just kind of sit and read historical facts and books, and sometimes
10:44encyclopedias. I'm old as well, so I do reach for an encyclopedia when I can get one. So yeah,
10:51it starts with research, and then as I get to know the characters, I think I find I get to
10:56know them as
10:57I'm writing sometimes, because what I do notice is I'll come in with an idea, okay, this character is
11:03going to do this in a given scene, and I get to it, and she does something else that feels
11:08more true
11:09true to who the character actually is, and then I have to rework the story around whatever crazy
11:14choice, you know, she's done. In Runner, for example, our main character, Lena, I think I started her off
11:20as a very reasonable person, but, you know, she's a young black woman walking through the criminal
11:25underworld, so she eventually makes some choices that are a little unhinged, a little bit poor,
11:32and I had to kind of rock with her through that, so letting the story unfold as I get to
11:36know the
11:37characters is also part of my process. That's interesting, and I wouldn't necessarily think
11:42that, because I think when you're reading these books, right, you just assume that you have the
11:48story, like, from beginning to end already mapped out, but so many authors that I've talked to the past
11:53two days have said, oh, the character let me know that this wasn't something that they would do,
11:58even though I had it in mind, so I had to pivot. That's really interesting. What is something that
12:03you learned from your two main characters in Runner about their relationship with each other
12:10or otherwise that surprised you and that you think would surprise us?
12:16I think the two main characters in Runner, they are new to each other, but there's a relationship,
12:25a connection between their mothers that kind of colors the way that they ultimately see
12:30one another, and I think what's ultimately interesting about the two of them is this idea of
12:36multi-generational conflict and sort of multi-generational forgiveness and what it looks like to forgive
12:45someone who maybe hasn't personally done anything to you but may represent something that's really painful
12:51and what that looks like and how you ultimately move past it, and it really starts with, you know,
12:56the two of them being honest with each other about who they are and what's important to them
12:59and what matters and the ways they do hurt each other over the course of the story, but yeah,
13:04I think that that piece of sort of multi-generational kind of forgiveness and conflict
13:08was interesting and surprising for me as a writer.
13:12Okay, and then for those of us who maybe are considering, you know, writing or maybe just want
13:20to write for fun, right, for pleasure, what advice would you give about incorporating authentic
13:27relationships, not just romantic relationships? For some reason when you say relationships, people
13:32automatically think romantic relationships when, to your point, most of our first relationships are
13:38not romantic, but what advice would you give about weaving, you know, real life-ish into those
13:47stories? Sure, I think if you're thinking about writing fiction, thinking about what your day actually
13:54looks like, how much time are you spending with a romantic partner versus how much time you're
13:59spending? Are you on the phone with your mom? Are you calling your dad? Are there co-workers that
14:03you have interesting relationships with? Are you texting back and forth with your best friend all
14:07day? Thinking about where the big moments of your life and the smaller moments of your life,
14:12actually, who's showing up in those moments and incorporating that into the story, I think can
14:17help the relationship show up in a really authentic way that actually reflects how much space non-romantic
14:22relationships take up in people's lives. Okay, okay, well, we're about at time now.
14:29Okay, but Ashton has Runner available for a pre-sale to our left, and then there are copies of your
14:40first book, physical copies here, that can be signed. Okay, so to our left in the book pavilion,
14:51please buy away. Thank you again for coming, okay, and joining us. Thank you, Bridget.
15:03You
15:06You
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