- 2 hours ago
Black men have always been at the center of the movement — organizing, marching, demanding change. But what does that look like right now, in the halls of Congress, in our neighborhoods, and in our everyday lives? This conversation Moderated by Kenny Burns with Congressman Troy Carter and Rev Sharpton gets real about power, policy, and what it means to show up for Black men.
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00:01What's up Essence Fest how y'all doing? Welcome back to the Swade Man's Lounge and we have an
00:08amazing amazing conversation with three great panelists. Black men has always been at the
00:14center of the movement organizing marching and demanding change. Today Kenny Burns sits down
00:21with Congressman Troy Carter and the Reverend Al Sharpton for a real conversation about power,
00:26policy, and what it means to show up for black men right now. Please welcome Mr. Kenny Burns,
00:33Congressman Troy Carter, and Reverend Al Sharpton.
00:44How y'all feeling? Y'all feeling good? Happy birthday to all of Kansas first and foremost. I know it's
00:50Kansas
00:50season some of y'all celebrating the birthday. Congressman Troy Carter make some noise ladies and
00:55gentlemen. The legendary Reverend Al Sharpton. So happy to be able to spin America's 250 with
01:04these amazing gentlemen. Let's have a seat you guys. How you feeling today at Essence Festival of Culture
01:092026? Fantastic. I'm great. I'm great. You look good, Rev. I feel good. You got it on, Rev. I do.
01:18Yeah.
01:20Congressman Troy Carter, we are in your home state. There's nothing like the Essence Festival of Culture. And how important
01:28is
01:28that to your city and state, the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana?
01:32Well listen, I was a part of the, I served on the New Orleans City Council when we first attracted
01:38Essence to this city 30 plus years ago. Right. So now today, being a member of the United States Congress,
01:45recognizing that Essence is more than just a party, it's just a party.
01:48It's a party with a purpose. That's right. And on this 250th anniversary of our country, time for us to
01:55talk about what America needs to do to make it better for the next 250.
01:58That's right. That's right. Rev. Al Sharpton, I've been seeing you outside forever at Essence Festival of Culture. What does
02:05Essence mean to you?
02:07Essence means everything to me. I was here at the first Essence Festival. Make some noise for that. The very
02:12first.
02:14And I've not missed any, even when they had to go to Houston because of Katrina. I spoke with everyone.
02:21And I was thinking as I was walking around today, that the first one, I did the panel with Reverend
02:29Jackson.
02:29Wow. And a couple of John Lewis that are no longer here. So I feel like I'm continuing to hold
02:37a tradition because Essence is about purpose. And Essence is about the best of our culture. So they're celebrating 1776.
02:48I'm celebrating that we survived since 1776. Come on. Listen, I'm so honored to be here with both of you
02:55amazing gentlemen. I want to start this conversation off because black men have always been central to the movements, to
03:01justice and change.
03:03What does the responsibility look like right now in this moment for us?
03:09To love each other, to stand together, not allow anybody to divide us. See, there's a movement out there. And
03:18sometimes it's within our own group.
03:20Social media. Social media, social this. Listen, we are Democrats. We're black folk. We're not a monolith. We can have
03:30different ideas, different philosophies.
03:32What we cannot do is allow outside forces to divide us among ourselves. Listen, there are far too few of
03:41us to be working against each other.
03:43That's right. There's a responsibility for us to spend more time talking to each other and less time about each
03:50other.
03:51Listen, I love the era that you both come from. And I want you to answer that question, too, because
03:56it was gatekeeping the way we needed to be gatekept.
03:58There's so much hatekeeping happening in the world, to your point. And the reason why I want to say social
04:03media is because there's so much misinformation and disinformation on these platforms that continuously divide us.
04:09So how important is this moment? It's very important. And see, the thing I think that brings us together, as
04:16the congressman referred to, talking to each other, is the fact is that we all don't do the same thing.
04:23We have different lanes. We have different lanes. He's a legislator. I'm an activist and host a radio and TV
04:28show. But if we are all in our lane headed to the same place, as long as you don't switch
04:36lanes without a signal, we won't have an accident.
04:40That's right. And the other challenge to black men, for the black men that when we were here two years
04:47ago and was supporting Kamala Harris, they were saying, I can't support a woman.
04:52Well, now that you're paying higher gas prices and now that you can't afford living, how you like her now?
04:58Come on. Come on. If you believe that black women run the world, say yeah. Yeah!
05:05I think we're at a pivotal time. When we talk about power, policy and progress, what are the issues impacting
05:12black men that need more urgent attention?
05:15I personally think we tend to fall into the patriarchal system too much thinking money is better than community, that
05:22we should choose money over our women, our families.
05:26And I just think we're in a weird place that we need some reconciling.
05:30Can I pivot just a little bit off that one? Absolutely.
05:32We need health care. Black men need to be healthy. We have to recognize that we got to take care
05:39of ourselves.
05:39We can't be good men to our women. We can't be good fathers to our children. We can't be good
05:44men in the community if we aren't healthy.
05:47If you think about what happens when you get on an airplane, put your mask on first.
05:51So we talk about prostate cancer. We talk about having your colonoscopy. We talk about mental health.
05:59See, we've been taught as black men, as men in general, but particularly black men, suck it up. Big boys
06:06don't cry.
06:07So we have learned to adapt and adapt to pain and not get help. Well, your body gives you signals.
06:16Like you're driving your fancy BMW and the check engine light comes on.
06:20You pull that thing over because you don't want to blow a gasket. But when you've got that persistent pain
06:25in your chest, in your arm, that headache that won't go away, that's your body telling you something.
06:30We don't have to die at a young age. If you get pre-screening, if you go to the doctor,
06:37if you make sure that you're taking care of yourself.
06:40And listen, from a mental health standpoint, brothers and sisters, it's okay to not be okay sometimes.
06:48It's not okay to ignore it because with medicine, diet and counseling, you can have a wonderful life. You are
06:57not alone.
06:57Amen.
06:59No, I think that we've got to redefine manhood so that...
07:11One of the things is you shouldn't be hitting women with a pillow.
07:15That was not...
07:16That rev...
07:18I've been married 27 years.
07:20I couldn't resist that one.
07:21But anyway, we've got to...
07:23Lord, forgive me.
07:24Touché, brother.
07:26I think that manhood is not playing macho games.
07:33Yes.
07:33Manhood is taking responsibility.
07:36And I think that we have allowed Hollywood and music world, the negative side, to redefine manhood.
07:45That I can, like he said, not look out for health.
07:48I can make babies that I'm not going to take care of.
07:51A man takes care of the responsibilities and we need to find manhood that way.
07:59My father left when I was 10.
08:01But James Brown, the godfather of soul, I knew his son.
08:05He took me in as a son.
08:06Jesse took me in as a son.
08:08And that's manhood.
08:09Because you've got to teach a man how to be a man from another man.
08:14And if a man is not being a man, he can't teach a man how to be that.
08:18That's right.
08:19Make some noise for the Rebs.
08:20Let's...
08:21Gospel before Sunday.
08:23Congressman Carter, from the halls of Congress to communities here in Louisiana,
08:28what does it mean to turn advocacy into policy that actually reaches people?
08:34So I grew up in a community in Algiers called the Cut-Off.
08:37So I often say from the Cut-Off to the Congress.
08:40And what it means is to sit at tables that we were never allowed to sit at.
08:46Although many of which we built.
08:49To be in the room when we're talking about policy, not just for black folk, but for all folk.
08:55To make sure that healthcare is affordable.
08:58Unlike the big ugly law that strips some 17 million healthcare policies away from people.
09:05Being in the room makes a difference.
09:07Listen, we're outnumbered in the United States Congress.
09:11We're further outnumbered when you talk about the 64 members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
09:16But guess what we don't do?
09:18We don't run.
09:19We don't quit.
09:20We don't cry.
09:22We show up.
09:23We fight.
09:24We learn how to maneuver and use technique and technicalities to move the ball for the American people.
09:31So I will say that to say, just because we are outnumbered in votes, we're never outvoiced in effort.
09:41Amen.
09:41And so showing up, being in the room makes a difference.
09:46There was once when we had no members of the Congressional Black Caucus.
09:48Then we had one.
09:50Then we had three.
09:50Then we had seven.
09:51Then we had 20.
09:52Well, now we got 64 and building.
09:56Our presence will be seen, felt, and heard for generations to come.
10:02And all of you play an important role of being a part of that.
10:06All of you, albeit as the good Rev just said, different lanes, but equally as important.
10:13Amen.
10:14Rev Sharpton, you spent decades organizing, marching, and holding systems accountable.
10:20What lessons from the past movements still apply in this very moment?
10:24You have to be able to capture the imagination of the community to give them, even in dark times, hope.
10:32You can't organize people by telling them we can't do it.
10:36We have faced things worse than this.
10:39We have beat people worse than Trump.
10:41Yes.
10:42If we could beat slavery, segregation, we can certainly handle Donald Trump.
10:48Yes, sir.
10:48Don't let people gorilla us.
10:51Like, we face much harder adversity.
10:55So we've got to dramatize.
10:57My job is to keep the issue out there like others before me did.
11:01His job is to change it in the law.
11:04But if we are afraid to put our issue out there, everybody talking about everything other than us.
11:09So you've got to break in the conversation.
11:12People are always saying, why is Red Mal always marching?
11:14Why is Red Mal raising sand?
11:17Because the people that are victims want the attention on that.
11:21Don't nobody call me to keep a secret.
11:23They call me to make some noise.
11:25We need to make noise until everybody understands.
11:28Yes.
11:29Using your voice is most important.
11:31And I think the fear tactics are at an all-time high.
11:34I mean, and it's so overabundant because of social media.
11:38But the one thing that is true is that that's a small faction of people if you think about who's
11:43in power and who is America.
11:45Can you speak to that a little bit?
11:46Because I think people, to Rev's point, they get confused.
11:50Like, it's so bad.
11:51It's so dark.
11:52He's so crazy.
11:53He says all the crazy things.
11:54But it's just hyperbole on some levels.
11:56Well, listen.
11:57It is dark.
11:58And he is crazy.
11:59And he does say stupid things.
12:01But he ain't going to beat us.
12:02That's right.
12:03Because hate cannot fly for a sustained trip.
12:07He's on a flight, but hate cannot fly for a sustained trip.
12:10All we have to do, as my mother would always say, keep our hands clean before the Lord and do
12:17his will.
12:17Keep showing up.
12:18Keep loving each other.
12:20And never quit.
12:21Listen.
12:22I am not going to sugarcoat how bad it is for us.
12:25It's bad.
12:26This man is seeking to turn our Constitution upside down.
12:31To take away the guardrails of the checks and balance system.
12:36To have a Supreme Court that's complicit in letting him do whatever he wants.
12:40See, in the 60s and 70s, we always had the courts that we can depend on being able to at
12:46least have the courts to fight for us.
12:49To have a federal government to send in marshals if local and state officials weren't recognizing us.
12:54He's taking that away.
12:56But guess what?
12:57Project 2025 is in our rearview mirror because we're building Project 2026, 27, and 28.
13:03And it's going to be built like the Freedom Riders built it with a voting card at the ballot box.
13:10Let's put some time limits on that Supreme Court.
13:13Rev, how do you feel about that same question?
13:15No, I think that we definitely need to, first of all, we need to have an offensive strategy rather than
13:23defensive.
13:23A guy stopped me at the airport about three weeks ago.
13:26And he said, Ramal, what are y'all going to do about crime in your community?
13:32I said, well, first of all, we are against crime.
13:36But I said, why would you ask me?
13:38Well, you know, I'm a Republican and I voted for Trump because I'm worried about crime.
13:44I said, so let me get this right.
13:45The way you fight crime is put a man convicted of 34 felonies in the White House.
13:51There's no bigger criminal in the history of the country than Donald Trump.
13:56So we got to stop apologizing for the negative in our community to deal with it and call them out.
14:02They got a thug in the White House who is robbing the treasury.
14:08This man, this man made $2 billion last year.
14:14And they telling me about somebody that stole a piece of chicken from Popeyes?
14:18Let's be serious about this.
14:21It's unbelievable to even think that the level of grifting, the level of stealing,
14:27the people that, and I want you to do this too, and this is off the script for two seconds.
14:32Remember these people's faces.
14:35Pete Hexeth, remember these people's faces.
14:38J.D. Vance, they will be here long after Donald Trump is gone,
14:43but his ideology is living well in their brains rent-free.
14:48Do not forget these faces.
14:50What's the one, the bald-headed one, the real one in the office that I'm very scared of?
14:55Stephen Miller.
14:56Stephen Miller.
14:57Stephen Miller.
14:58Put him on a board like the mob, the police, and the FBI did the mob, and put him at
15:03the top of them.
15:04Ten most unwanted.
15:05That's what, listen, but don't forget these things.
15:07But we've got to get to this voting process.
15:09This is a huge year for us, meaning Democrats.
15:12Now we have a bunch of different factions starting, socialists and all types of things within the party.
15:17I don't want to go there.
15:19We don't want to go there.
15:19I don't want to go there, but I do want to go to the importance.
15:21What we need to go is you can be as independent in your thinking as you want.
15:25Yes.
15:26We cannot let people divide us on the things that are most important.
15:30Facts.
15:30But this is what I wanted to say.
15:31The best idea wins.
15:33If Mondomini is doing the things and turning the court, take the ideas and put them on the list.
15:38And we're not in that debate.
15:40I told Mondomini, I told AOC, it's not in our community capitalism against socialism.
15:49How we capitalists, we couldn't get capital.
15:52Right.
15:52The problem is we can't get the money.
15:55Right.
15:55So y'all arguing about stuff that don't mean nothing to us.
15:58And Brother Ken, let me be clear, lest anybody misunderstand my comment.
16:02Yes.
16:02What I say is be all those things you want to be.
16:06You don't have, they're not mutually exclusive.
16:08Yes.
16:08We can be all that under the color of the rainbow in our party as long as we're all fighting
16:14for equal pay for women.
16:16That's right.
16:16Minimum wage for all of our workers.
16:19An educational system that works.
16:21An environment where people can breathe and drink clean water.
16:25Education and opportunities.
16:26No foreign wars where we're sending our young people to die and we're sending billions
16:30of dollars to other people while we're dying on the streets of America.
16:34That's what all of our universal issues are.
16:37And these data centers, I want to bring this up too, because I think if you look at what
16:41Elon Musk did by being the head of Doge for two and a half weeks so he can get his
16:46data
16:46centers placed in these communities, these communities are going to be poisoned by that
16:49type thing.
16:50Ain't nobody thinking about Mars.
16:51We're thinking about the problems here on Earth.
16:53Yes.
16:54And I think too, like locally, statewide, obviously national and what you do and you're, you're,
16:59you know, you're, you're explaining the narrative to our communities.
17:03We have to talk about why these things can't exist in our communities.
17:06Right now, Tennessee, they have an unregulated data mining system and it's polluting the,
17:10you know, the area.
17:12What are we going to do about these things and how can we stop it?
17:14Well, I think, I think we, instead of saying stop it, we've got to stop them from doing
17:19things without talking to us and making sure it's good for us.
17:22And so then we stop it.
17:24You've got to come and explain to the community, what is a data center?
17:28Most people don't even know what it is.
17:30They don't know what it produces.
17:31They hear that it's going to be jobs.
17:33They hear that it's good for this and that.
17:35What we're not hearing is how is it going to be good for my community?
17:38Am I going to get those jobs?
17:40Is it going to impact the price of my, my, my utilities?
17:44Am I going to have some environmental issues as a result of it?
17:47Will it be a drain on my power source?
17:50Will it be a drain to my community?
17:51See, you can't think that you can sneak these things in our communities in the middle of the night.
17:57You've got to talk to the people.
17:59And so if they are interested in doing anything and I tell them they come and see me,
18:04Hey man, don't talk to me.
18:06Have you talked to the community?
18:07Because you've got to talk to the people where they live.
18:10You can't come to 1, 2, 10, 12 of us and ignore the people in the community who are going
18:16to be impacted.
18:17When I served on the city council years ago and developers came in and want to do something,
18:22I always force them to have community meetings.
18:25That's right.
18:26Talk to the community people.
18:28Hear their concerns.
18:29Tell them you boast about all these jobs and how much money you're going to bring.
18:32Tell me how many of them are going to get those jobs.
18:35Tell me that it's environmentally sound.
18:37Tell me it's not going to be a drain on traffic in their community.
18:40Tell me it's not going to crack up their streets with heavy trucks.
18:43So you've got to make them understand and talk to the people.
18:48Otherwise, they'll run over.
18:49And you've got to make them train.
18:53One of the things National Action Network has done, followed the model of the American Federation of Teachers,
18:58we need training on AI.
19:00Before you even talk about a center, you can't take our jobs and we're not equipping people in the community
19:07on AI.
19:08It ain't going nowhere.
19:10People are saying the internet won't last.
19:12You can't replace humans.
19:14You cannot replace humans.
19:16You must train them.
19:17And we're making them put up the money to do that.
19:19I'm not supporting centers, but I am saying you're going to train us on AI or you shouldn't be able
19:24to get any legislation through.
19:26Come on, OG.
19:27Talk that talk.
19:28Make some noise for that statement.
19:30Y'all don't realize how to create our economy.
19:33The creative communities are suffering because of AI and they're not telling us all the things.
19:37Teach us more.
19:38All right, we have two more questions and I might open it up for a couple of questions in the
19:42audience.
19:42How do you get more black men engaged beyond election cycles?
19:46I feel like we get hyped up when it's time and someone to be on the fence because it's convenient
19:51or they don't like women.
19:53I'm saying how I feel.
19:54But what do we do to engage them ongoing?
19:59By doing something for them.
20:01By listening to them.
20:02By including them.
20:03We just can't ask people to vote for us and then I'll see you two or four years later.
20:08We've got to create an economy that works for them.
20:10We've got to create second chances for our brothers that may have been incarcerated.
20:14We've got to make sure that there are opportunities for health care, mental health particularly.
20:19And then we've got to create a system where they're not being pitted against sisters.
20:24See, it's not a sister's success against a black man's success.
20:28It's people's success together.
20:31And sometimes when you hear the brothers say, well, I'm not voting for that sister.
20:34Man, too many black women.
20:36What are you talking about?
20:36That sounds crazy.
20:38That is crazy.
20:39You love your mama?
20:40Brother, if you don't recognize that black women are the backbone of our community, past, present, and future, then you've
20:48lost something.
20:49And I want to say this.
20:50Black women, please don't ever give up on us.
20:52Please.
20:53If you don't care, we don't have a community.
20:56That's right.
20:56And I just get sad when I hear this music and it's so disrespectful and degrading and dividing.
21:04We need y'all.
21:05I've been married 27 years to a black woman.
21:07I've got two black boys.
21:08And I'm raising them in this world that is actually insane.
21:11I mean, the things that they, I mean, imagine waking up all of 70 babies.
21:16Let me see your hands high in the sky.
21:18Imagine us growing up having to compete and compare every day on the phone before you even brush your teeth.
21:25How do you feel about that, Rev?
21:27Let me just say one thing before you get it.
21:29You've got to manage expectations, though.
21:31Yeah.
21:31You're talking about the black men, black women, but black men, it ain't going to change overnight.
21:35I know it's been a long time coming, but we cannot get weary.
21:39But we also have to never let our expectations exceed our effort.
21:43We as black men want a whole lot, but we don't work for the shit.
21:45I'm sorry.
21:46I ain't mean the curse.
21:47I ain't mean the curse.
21:48My bad.
21:48Sorry, Rev.
21:49I'm going to have to pray for you again.
21:50But anyway, the other thing I think, to go to your question about how to keep them politically involved,
21:59people need to understand that everything they do is the result of a political decision.
22:07Facts.
22:07The food you eat was cleared by the Food and Drug Administration.
22:12The clothes you wear, your drawers had to go through apparel before it was allowed to be sold.
22:18So why would you let political people make decisions for you and you might not participate?
22:26The fact that you drop out don't mean that you're not governed by that.
22:30And I have a friend of mine in Harlem, believing, you know, back in the day, he want to overthrow
22:36the government.
22:36Revolution.
22:37He run into me and we talked.
22:39And he was saying to me about six months ago, you remember Al?
22:43I see you out there.
22:44You're out there marching or whatever.
22:46But I keep telling you, I don't believe in the system.
22:48We got to overthrow the government and da-da-da.
22:50And we there back and forth, a debate we done had 40 years.
22:53He said, oh man, let me get ready to go.
22:55I got to go get my social security check.
22:57I said, I thought you don't believe in the system.
23:03You know, that's ironic.
23:05On the Poly Alert show, my show, I'm talking about news and culture.
23:09And I'm often amazed at that.
23:11How do they not see that it all comes back to one thing?
23:13Why do you think these folks died so you can vote?
23:17The only way to play the game or win it is to be in it.
23:20That's right.
23:21This is going to get us up out of here.
23:23And I hope we have time for one more question.
23:24I hope we, I'm going to come over there.
23:26Let me get this last question out.
23:27As we close, matter of fact, let me get this question.
23:30You got a question?
23:33Thank you all for being here.
23:36Reverend Sharpton, you frequently tell us that our struggle will keep continuing as black people.
23:43We realize that after November 3rd, when we're successful, when we vote, what do you see that we're going to
23:53have to do?
23:54What are the initial issues that we face when we see that we're going to be able to keep our
24:02democracy?
24:03I think the first thing, and a great question.
24:05The first thing is you know that we are highlighting, kicking off this voting by having a big march August
24:1228th in Washington.
24:14I hope everybody come.
24:15Because everybody marching but us.
24:17They don't have everybody out there.
24:19Black folk need to go to Washington and say, wait a minute.
24:22This is our agenda, dealing with our voting rights, dealing with our killing an affordable cat.
24:29Then we need to say, we need to have periodic town hall meetings to measure what we voted for.
24:36I have rallies every Saturday in Harlem.
24:39People need to be accountable on a continual basis to the people that voted for.
24:46I keep telling some of these black preachers and leaders, you keep talking for people that you don't talk to.
24:52You keep leading people you don't even like.
24:55We need to relate and hold everybody accountable.
24:59All right.
24:59As we close out, ladies and gentlemen, what do you think black men need to understand about their power and
25:05their responsibility in shaping what comes next as we celebrate America 250?
25:11Starting with you, Congressman.
25:13If you didn't have power, they wouldn't be trying to silence you.
25:19If your vote didn't matter, they wouldn't be trying to take it away.
25:23If they didn't like you, they wouldn't be trying to look like you.
25:28So you've got to see your own beauty.
25:30You've got to see your own strength.
25:33You've got to recognize how powerful you are, and then you've got to use your power.
25:38Listen, having power and leaving it in your drawer does nothing for our community.
25:45Having power and using it is when it matters.
25:49Do not, Rev, hide your gifts.
25:52Use them, because one day you will be asked, what did you do with your gifts?
26:00Congressman Troy Carter, make some noise, please.
26:04Rev?
26:04Rev?
26:05We need to challenge black men that when we had no rights, anyone was bound to respect.
26:12When we were named after our slave masters, when it was against the law to read and write, we still
26:19found a way to go forward.
26:21And here we are with more than any generation of black men before us.
26:27We have more to work with.
26:29We have more to fight with.
26:30We have more to pass on.
26:33Do you realize Martin Luther King never knew what a cell phone was?
26:37Fannie Lou Hamer never knew what the internet was.
26:40And they turned this country upside down.
26:42You got two cell phones in your pocket, all kind of equipment at the house, talking to everybody about nothing.
26:49We need to use what we got to get what we want.
26:53Use what you got to get what you want.
26:56On behalf of Congressman Troy Carter, the legendary Reverend Al Sharpton, I am Kenny Burns of Culture Man.
27:03Thank you for coming.
27:04This has been the Suede Lounge America 250.
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