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00:00Global hit and it's had 45 billion streaming minutes last year and the
00:06number one most watched show in the U.S. beyond Grey's Anatomy Stranger Things.
00:19Hi guys how's your can line going so far? Very well, very hot but very enjoyable.
00:25Met a lot of very interesting people which has been very helpful. So our
00:29conversation today is gonna be about powered by fans and sorry Shelly I cut
00:34you off. Were you gonna say anything about CanLion? Do you have anything you
00:36want to say? Okay, powered by fans, creating entertainment brands that last.
00:40Obviously the two of you both work for huge brands that have a very very long
00:44legacy and I was wondering if we could start with what is the difference
00:47between having an audience and having a fandom? Darren do you want to start with
00:51that? Sure I mean first of all not every show we make is going to have that fandom,
00:57that passionate level. Having the viewership, having the success for a
01:01business property is our goal obviously but when you have the fandom you have a
01:06different level of connection. It's a different opportunity for marketing also
01:10to really go deep and really expand on what the show makes. We don't make the
01:16show, we hopefully help make it better and that opportunity can last all year long
01:21versus just when something is on versus a show that has a passive group. We are in
01:27the moment and then we move on and we come back to it for the next season. So
01:30levels. Shelly, same question for you. Yeah, so BBC Studios makes so many
01:36different genres of shows and that find an audience and the audience is really
01:41important but the audience is quite passive. And when it comes to fans and that's
01:47really what my division does at BBC Studios, brands and licensing, it's about when a
01:52show becomes a brand or a franchise and there's a connection and we build out the
01:57story worlds for people to experience the IP in a way that extends it beyond the
02:01screen. So I'd say audience is passive and fandom is active. Can you give me an
02:06example of a show at the BBC Studios where the fandom helped enhance the show or
02:12enhance the longevity of the show? Yeah I could give two examples and we have
02:17Dancing with the Stars. She's had a phenomenal year in the US and Bluey. So
02:24let's start with Dancing with the Stars. We reinvented how the voting system worked
02:29on the show because we saw it was finding a fandom but the fandom couldn't get
02:33involved sufficiently well. So what was wrong with the voting beforehand in
02:39terms of people not being involved? So it was cost prohibitive, it was old
02:46fashion, so it was a phone in, whereas now it's fully on mobile and fully
02:51accessible, low barrier to entry. So it just enables more conversations and
02:55interaction with your mates and engagement with the show storylines as
03:01they're unfolding. For Bluey, for those of you who aren't familiar, it's because some
03:08people don't have children so I wouldn't expect you to know the IP. It's a
03:12phenomenal global hit. It's had 45 billion streaming minutes last year and the number
03:19one most watched show in the US beyond Grey's Anatomy Stranger Things. It's really
03:23found its following and of course there's a huge franchise that extends the Bluey
03:31world. But listening to the fans, we've set up spin-off YouTube channels to tell the
03:37story of Bingo, Bluey's little sister, and Muffin, another character in the show who
03:42has a lot of emotional meltdowns and parents and children alike can identify with Muffin
03:49in a way that extends the show beyond Bluey, the character herself. So those are a few examples.
03:56Interesting. Okay. And Darren, same question for you. What is an example or a few examples of
04:02fandoms that have really helped propel a show's longevity or the success of a show?
04:06I can first riff off what Shelley just said is I launched season one of Dancing with the Stars
04:11and Grey's Anatomy and the way they started were so uniquely different where for Grey's Anatomy was
04:17episode one. People went crazy for it. I remember it was the first time we did a Facebook page which
04:23was like so cool. It was in like 2005, 2006. Grey's was the spring of 2005. Yeah. And Dancing with
04:32the
04:32Stars was a summer show and I remember I'm like, you want me to promote a celebrity ballroom dancing
04:37show? Like it was, but you know, once it took off and what has happened this last year in the
04:43US at ABC
04:45is phenomenal. But you know, for Grey's Anatomy, those characters just pull people in so fast. But specifically at
04:52Fox, fans saved Family Guy twice. It was canceled two times. But back in the day, the DVD sales pulled
05:00it forward. And when it was initially scheduled on the network, the competition was opposite friends
05:05for some weird reason. And it collapsed. But fans, the passion brought it back. And now it's one of the
05:11longest running shows on TV. How important is the dialogue of the fandom on social media? And how much
05:18do you monitor that or gauge that as a metric for what people actually believe about programming?
05:25Okay. I'll go. So our team are interacting with fans day in, day out. So it's part of the team
05:33DNA,
05:34understanding what people care about, what the sentiment is. I'd say the affinity worlds around the core
05:42fandom that they're in there for, which gives us clues on how to expand the franchise in a way that's
05:48true to the brand in question. So yeah, it can be just replying to comments in a feed. But of
05:56course,
05:56we use other tools like Tubular to understand the themes of what's being talked about, or even
06:01through content ID, getting clues on how we can extend the stories or new passion verticals that we
06:09take the brand into that we might not have considered, but have suddenly become relevant
06:13because the audience is indicating that's where their passions lie.
06:20What used to be sporadic research that was come out of our team is now daily feedback. And it has
06:28absolutely impacted our guest casting. It has changed storylines. You need to fuel those people who take
06:34their time to give you feedback and comment. That's your core. And once you turn that, once you lose
06:40that, it's very hard to get it back. So we lean in a little bit. We want to understand what
06:44people
06:45are liking, not liking, and we react. It impacts marketing, impacts our actual show content.
06:50Can you give me an example of guest casting that was influenced by the fans?
06:54The type of people we are looking to cast right now onto Baywatch, which we're remaking to come out
07:00in January. We went very social, influencer heavy in the casting, people that have a strong appeal.
07:06People were actually putting out names, and some of them were like, it's not a bad idea. Some were.
07:12But for the most part, we really want to take this seriously. And when then you can cast somebody
07:17that brings 10 million fans, yes, please. That way we're not starting at zero. It helps.
07:23Yeah, I would say there's been such a shift in the last five years. We really feel in service of
07:30the
07:30fans, whereas before it would be using the platforms to find and extend an audience. It's now
07:37listen to the fans. They've adopted the IP, and we're in tune with them all the time to feed back
07:43into
07:43the production ecosystem of the business, which is really exciting because people have real leverage
07:49and influence over what gets made. Fans have gotten ahead of marketing now. They're jumping
07:54in when a show is announced. I'm like, I'm not ready. But they are.
07:58Yeah, they move faster than maybe we can sometimes.
08:00Fandom is largely positive, and it helps boost shows. But there's also toxic fandoms. And we saw
08:07that, I think, recently in the United States with Heated Rivalry, where the actors behind that show
08:11issued statements on social media asking people to stop dissecting every single thing that they did in
08:16public. Is there a line in which the fandom goes from being a positive to a negative, or where you
08:24have to sort of juggle that and monitor that for the sake of the welfare of your casts or the
08:29people
08:29that work on your shows? I don't know how you necessarily can turn that off, unfortunately. It's
08:36whether you react to it or not. Controlling talent sometimes can be part of the challenge in that,
08:42is not poking the bear. And some people like to respond. They want to have their voice. I respect
08:48that. But you cannot compete with the silent majority out there where they're going to come
08:53out. And, you know, it's all anonymous. So people feel free to say whatever they want, obviously.
09:01I can't say we take it too seriously and react to it. You can't stop it. So I don't know
09:06if that's
09:07really the best answer. But unfortunately, it's reality. Yeah, I think fans expect transparency. So
09:13it's even trying to control it is probably, you know, it's not our remit. We've got to respond. So
09:20it depends what the case of the day or the month is to think about kind of come back to
09:26first
09:26principles of what the brand and the IP is and respond appropriately or not respond at all. So you
09:31know, you don't not every comment or situation requires a response. The fans want to own it.
09:38They want to have dialogue. They are the community. Sometimes it's not the place of the brand to
09:43And they will regulate them themselves. Sometimes you'll see people kind of pounce on the trolls,
09:49which helps. Right. This dialogue that emerges on social media and then it does kind of correct
09:54if people step out of line. How do you when you're evaluating fandoms and when you're monitoring
09:59fandoms, how do you account for bots or accounts that are not real that are just, you know, trying
10:06to spread the messages that aren't really generated by human beings? I mean, where you can control that
10:13and stop it is sometimes if you don't catch it in time, that is where some really damaging things
10:19can happen where you start a message. People are so hypercritical right now of what's real,
10:25what's AI, what's not. People are picking up on things faster versus being duped as much as they
10:31have been in the past. So I think, again, crowds will self-regulate. We've had fandom point things
10:37out to us. You know, they're getting into it faster. But we have people now that are specifically
10:43monitoring for those things, which never existed two years ago.
10:47Yeah, the best we can do is 24-7 moderation. We have a partner who does that for us and
10:51things
10:52get flagged very quickly if it's an issue, but they're empowered to take things down if it's not
10:57real. Darren, you mentioned Baywatch. Talk to me about when the decision to bring back IP or to
11:05reboot a franchise. What role does fandom play in deciding what franchises are relevant for a new
11:13audience or maybe a show has a new life for a new generation? When you can see these fast channels
11:21of like Baywatch 10, 11 seasons from the 90s are still getting viewership. And our partners over
11:28at Kubi or Airing have all those seasons as well. And there's still an active audience. There's
11:34something there, obviously. So you're looking for the pulse. And if it's, you know, there are dead
11:38franchises that don't need to come back. We all know that. But there's some that when you
11:43can bring them back and continue the storyline, stay true to where it started, and then ideally
11:49bring in a new audience. That is our goal and what we hope to do, why the casting reflects what
11:55it is
11:55now with all these social influencers I mentioned. But each episode right now, we're looking to bring
12:00someone back from the OG seasons. So just to kind of spark that and if we can move the audience
12:05forward,
12:05you know, that is the dream of our, hopefully, the Baywatch 2.0.
12:11Shelley, is there an example at the BBC studios where a reaction from the fandom made you realize
12:17that something should be rebooted or given another chance?
12:24Actually, listening to the fandom gives us lots of clues to how we develop new IPs. So I'm more
12:30looking, that's more my remit is where, where's the scale of interest and how do we feed that into
12:37what production are creating that's coming through the pipeline. And we have another team who run the
12:42productions who listen, who do their own listening. But we've got a couple of shows coming through. We've got
12:48My Friend Maisie, which has just been commissioned for two seasons, released on Sky. We're really
12:55expecting that to do well. It's another potential franchise that taps into the emotional connection
13:02and emotional awareness that we've seen work so well with Bluey, but it's done in a slightly different
13:08way for a slightly younger audience. We talked about the Grey's Anatomy Facebook page. I think that
13:14you said that was the first TV show that had a Facebook page. I remember there was a period where
13:20everyone was asked to tweet, live tweet, right, during their shows to get fandoms encouraged and
13:25engaged. Can you talk a little bit about, are there examples of showrunners that are doing
13:31interactions with fandoms in the right way right now in 2026? Can you give me an example of the
13:37right way to engage with fandoms? I mean, I'll just take it from the Grey's Anatomy example.
13:42That evolved into Scandal and the way Shonda Rhimes has always been so fan first. She writes for the
13:50viewers. She listens to the viewers. She was reading. I mean, I can't speak for her now, but back in
13:54the
13:54day, like she was looking at what people thought of, you know, what Patrick and Ellen were doing as their
14:01characters. And when characters were killed off, what was the reaction? And, you know, what they do in their
14:07real lives, how that span into the storylines. It's very interesting. And people who are engaging with fans
14:13and give them somewhat of a voice, it also has led to how all of her other series have come
14:18up. So it's
14:19interesting the way to see how her mind has always worked into the Bridgerton days now, which is a whole
14:24other level of fandom for her, which is, you know, very different genre. But I think it speaks a lot
14:30to
14:30paying attention to what the audience and the viewers are reacting to.
14:35And I also want to talk to you about the difference in fandoms when it comes to scripted
14:39versus reality TV. We talked about Dancing with the Stars. Is there, when you look at it in terms of
14:45green lighting, producing, engaging with fandoms, is there a difference in scripted versus the reality
14:52TV world? Reality TV world requires you to be very responsive to the fandom and in the moment.
15:00So why is that? Because, well, something will happen on the on the show that's dropped right
15:06that moment. And you need people on to be able to know what's being talked about and to respond in
15:12an appropriate way. So we the producers of the show actually are the people who moderate that fandom
15:17because it's the most appropriate people who are in the DNA of the production of the show.
15:21Whereas something like an animation, which is, you know, it's already the storylines already told.
15:26And it can be managed by a different group of people who aren't in the live production,
15:29but are more thinking about the story arc of what's coming and respond in an appropriate way.
15:36We have time for just one last question. So I want to ask you both about the future of fandom.
15:41So where are we headed in terms of the way in which fans engage
15:44about their favorite TV shows? And how is that connected to advertising when you look at the way
15:49in which you try to monetize TV programming?
15:54So future of fandom, I mean, we're going to see a lot more from our creators and building multi
16:01touchpoint media businesses and actually for our properties, thinking about how we behave
16:07as creators ourselves. And we already are, but I think that's just going to
16:11to, uh, expedite. Um, and then it's for us, it's then how do we serve that fandom by moving them
16:18through the ecosystem? So whether that be through gaming game, obviously gaming is huge. Um, it's
16:24playing a much bigger part in how we're telling our stories beyond, um, streaming platforms. Um,
16:31also audio books, podcasts, that the whole content ecosystem, it's really exploded in the last
16:37couple of years and making sure we're leveraging that sufficiently and working with partners
16:41who want to find an engaged audience, who want to have the associations with the properties we have
16:46that are highly trusted premium. Um, so it's, it's serving the fans of our, like who are our tribe,
16:53but also serving the fans of partners who have an affinity crossover.
16:59And just to close, Darren, any last thoughts on the future fandom?
17:02The ecosystem word was what I was going to say. It's, we used to support fans while the show was
17:07on. Now we're engaging with them all year long. You know, we could have a show on for 12 episodes,
17:13but you know, all 52 weeks of the year, they're still fans and I have to now create extra things
17:19to
17:19keep feeding that. So it is the behind the scenes. It is the creators. It's the podcast. It's throwing it
17:25all in and somehow that all falls on marketing now. So it's a lovely thing. It's just some job
17:30security and that, but it is a lot more to lift when you're keeping it going all the time.
17:35Yeah. It's quite a lot of pressure to keep up, but it's fun.
17:38Yes, exactly.
17:38It is. I know. Remember back in the day, you would only get fan letters in the mail and it's
17:45a very
17:45different world now. Thank you both for your time. Very, very interesting conversation. Really,
17:49really appreciate your time. Thank you guys.
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