- 7 weeks ago
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00:00It's like a psychological torture experiment.
00:04You know, people are in a bubble and they're kept away from their normal lives
00:08and they, I mean, to me it's fascinating.
00:11I call it Lord of the Flies with Botox.
00:23We are grateful for you joining us today
00:26and I think all we want to talk about in this crowd is the traitors.
00:31We want every bit of dish.
00:32No.
00:33But we really thought what a great opportunity
00:35to really look at a focused example of a show
00:39that was, I think you guys, it was a sleeper hit
00:42by I think any definition in the U.S.
00:45It kind of came out of nowhere.
00:47We knew Alan Cumming was hosting a show.
00:50We knew that was going to be a good time.
00:52But this show I know from my friends,
00:54it just built and built and built
00:56and all of a sudden everybody is like,
00:58I got to watch the traitors.
01:00I can't miss that episode.
01:02And so first of all, congratulations.
01:03It's very hard for new shows and new concepts to break through.
01:08So congratulations.
01:09But let's just, let's talk about sort of where it started.
01:13How did, Frances, tell us,
01:15how did the traitors come to the U.S.
01:17through on Peacock
01:19and now a new iteration is coming to NBC.
01:23But how did the original come to Peacock?
01:25And then, Alan, you can tell us how you became involved.
01:28So it was basically a format
01:32that they had done one season of in Belgium.
01:34That's where it was created.
01:36We actually went after the format
01:38and were successful in getting it,
01:40but it really had only worked in one territory.
01:42And so, you know, there's a bit of a leap of faith
01:46in thinking that we could translate it to U.S. audiences.
01:50We launched the first season in 2023.
01:55We went for, unlike the Belgian version,
01:57which just had civilians,
01:59we did a combination of civilians
02:02and some celebrities,
02:05some Bravo-leberties,
02:06some other gamers,
02:08because we thought that that would help bring in an audience
02:11for a completely unknown piece of IP over here.
02:14And then that season did well.
02:16The next season doubled the numbers
02:20and we launched it out of a big NFL-exclusive game on Peacock.
02:25And we got a lot more male viewers as a result,
02:27and it grew.
02:29And then season over season,
02:30it's built every single season.
02:32And season four, which we aired earlier this year,
02:34was up by 72%,
02:376.4 billion minutes.
02:39And it really is on a roll,
02:41because I think it is a perfect format
02:44and there's something for everyone in it.
02:46Male, female, it's got strategy,
02:49it's got psychology,
02:50it's got a lot of friendships and relationships,
02:54suspense, drama, comedy,
02:56and of course, Alan.
02:59Alan, what made you say yes to this project?
03:03Um, I just, I liked the people.
03:06I thought it seemed like a fun idea.
03:09I didn't quite understand why they wanted me to do it.
03:12And then I met with them
03:13and I understood it was to sort of play a character.
03:17And so once I got the hang of that
03:20and I sort of was able to develop what the character was,
03:23and in a way that sort of character
03:26sort of sets the tone for the aesthetic of the show.
03:29And I just, I don't know,
03:30it's just sort of,
03:32I'm quite good at staying open to new things
03:34and giving things a go.
03:36And I think it's been a great,
03:39obviously it's been a huge success
03:40and really I love doing it,
03:42but it's also been really affirming
03:45in my sort of understanding
03:47of when I do just stay open to things
03:49and give things a go,
03:51they usually turn out quite well.
03:53Yeah, you took a gamble and it paid off.
03:57Yeah.
03:57You've done so many different things,
03:59stage, movies, other television.
04:01Do you, the work of hosting a show like this
04:04and kind of being the audience's guide through it,
04:07do you enjoy that?
04:08Did you find it challenging to really,
04:11how to, you know, hit the marks
04:12and really make things land
04:14in the way that you do
04:15that are just, that adds so much verve to the show?
04:18I mean, I've sort of hosted lots of things in the past
04:22that as me or, you know,
04:25fronted documentaries or things like that,
04:27but this is a very different thing
04:29and it's sort of this hybrid of,
04:30yeah, I am the host,
04:31but I'm not really,
04:32like I don't sound like this
04:34or look like this.
04:36I, you know,
04:37I have this sort of crazy character.
04:38So I do think of it as sort of like
04:40an acting, hosting hybrid.
04:44And so that was,
04:46and the first season we did it,
04:48when anything's new,
04:49it's always, there's, you know,
04:51everyone's a bit stressed out about it
04:52and I was just finding my feet
04:54and I, you know,
04:55have a little thing in my ear.
04:57I'd not really done that before.
04:58To have someone constantly talking to you
05:00whilst you're, you know,
05:02sort of broadcast news kind of vibe.
05:04So, yeah, there were challenges,
05:06but I really, really enjoy it.
05:09And I actually, you know,
05:11when I'm shooting it,
05:12it's like I am in an immersive,
05:14well, I am,
05:14I'm in an immersive version
05:15of what you see on TV.
05:17And I just,
05:18I can't go to bed,
05:20go to sleep
05:21until I know who's been murdered.
05:23Sam, the producer, texts me.
05:24I get these like R.I.P.
05:27blah late at night.
05:29So, yeah,
05:29it's a really fun thing to do.
05:31And I get to be at home
05:31in Scotland as well.
05:32I see an after show coming
05:34where we just see
05:35your text messages.
05:37That would be very terrible.
05:39Francis, let's talk about
05:41from a, you know,
05:42obviously this is all joyous.
05:44The numbers you cited
05:45are all going
05:46in the right direction.
05:48Talk about what, you know,
05:49how something, you know,
05:51a hit show
05:51is the most precious commodity.
05:53Nobody can predict it.
05:55It's very much
05:56in the hands of the audience.
05:57When you started
05:59to see that traction,
06:00as you said,
06:01you know, maybe season one
06:03you built, season two
06:04really started to see it.
06:06How did you then
06:07really start to build out
06:09the trader's business?
06:10Because, boy,
06:11when you go to Peacock,
06:12when you go to NBC,
06:14it's very threaded through.
06:16You feel like it's,
06:17you can tell
06:18it's a big priority for you
06:19and it's a big hit.
06:20And we,
06:20all the Peacock ratings info
06:22is how many, many,
06:25you know,
06:25billions of minutes
06:26are being viewed.
06:27Yeah, it is a big hit
06:29but it's not a static thing.
06:31As with any of these
06:33unscripted reality shows,
06:35you have to keep evolving it.
06:36So we're incredibly
06:37intentional about
06:39both the creative
06:40and how we add new twists.
06:43We're very intentional
06:44about casting.
06:45We always want a mix
06:47of people who are really
06:48sort of strategic
06:49and can play games
06:50very well
06:51with surprising choices
06:53and some people
06:54who bring in
06:55a completely different
06:56fan base.
06:58Sometimes we're intentional
06:59about what's in the zeitgeist
07:01and so that's why
07:02we cast Johnny Weir,
07:03two Olympians,
07:04Johnny Weir and
07:05Tara Lipinski
07:06because the show
07:07is going to be dropping
07:08right the way
07:09through the Winter Olympics.
07:10And so really
07:11sort of thinking about that
07:12but then building out
07:13the world of it
07:14to have a bit of an
07:15always-on strategy.
07:17So it's not just
07:18one time in the year.
07:19It's one of the things
07:20that led to the decision
07:23to do a civilian version
07:25on NBC
07:26so that we can
07:28sort of drop it
07:28as the BBC does
07:30twice a year.
07:31And then we added
07:32a podcast
07:33which really gives you
07:35a lot of inside scoop
07:37with two of our
07:38former players,
07:39Bob the Drag Queen
07:40and Boston Rob
07:41and they sort of
07:42deconstruct the action,
07:44the strategy
07:45and then of course
07:46the fashion
07:47which puts one of them
07:48way out of their
07:49comfort zone.
07:50And so,
07:51but really sort of
07:52thinking about
07:53how we can create
07:54more interactivity
07:55with the audience
07:56and so we have
07:57a prediction game
07:58on Peacock
07:58that people can
07:59play along with
08:00and looking to do
08:02more of that.
08:04Again,
08:04you can see
08:06the infrastructure
08:07that you've put
08:08around it.
08:09I'm trying to think
08:10have you had
08:11much interaction
08:12with brands?
08:13Have you been able
08:14to do any brand
08:15partnerships that have
08:16been significant
08:16for you?
08:18We certainly do
08:19brand partnerships.
08:20I will say
08:20that we want
08:22to make sure
08:23that our brand
08:23partnerships are
08:24always organic
08:25so being in a
08:26Scottish castle
08:27limits that a bit.
08:29My dream is to
08:30have a smoked
08:31salmon sponsor
08:33because last season
08:35everyone kept
08:35ribbing us for not
08:36or the cast kept
08:37saying they didn't
08:38have enough smoked
08:38salmon so if
08:39anyone's out there
08:41but you know
08:42so that limits a bit
08:43but we certainly
08:44have an auto
08:45and car sponsor.
08:46Fruit plays a big
08:48part in this
08:48civilian series.
08:50So maybe a fruit
08:51sponsor.
08:51A fruit sponsor.
08:52Okay.
08:53Wait for fruit.
08:54Maybe avocados
08:55of Mexico.
08:56We've got a value
08:57add opportunity
08:57here folks.
08:58We've got market
08:59opportunities just
09:00for the offing.
09:01But I mean it
09:02would seem this
09:03type of show
09:03you know it can
09:04be hard to sort
09:05of force those in
09:07but this type of
09:08show has so many
09:09natural and I
09:10realize there might
09:11be some folks
09:12that haven't seen
09:13it but will rush
09:14out of here and
09:15go check it out.
09:16But the show
09:17let me see if I
09:18do this justice.
09:19You bring I forget
09:21the number of
09:21people but you
09:22bring a 22
09:2322 thank you
09:2422 people to
09:26an old
09:28incredibly gothic
09:30picturesque Scottish
09:31castle and they
09:33live together and
09:34there's a some of
09:35them are the
09:36faithful and and
09:37there's a few
09:38there's some of
09:39them are the
09:40faithful but there
09:41are a few
09:41traitors built in
09:44and they're faithful
09:45are trying to figure
09:46out who they are
09:46and murder them
09:47before they can be
09:49murdered by the
09:50traitors.
09:50It's really it's
09:51really fun.
09:52Did I do that
09:53right?
09:53Did I get and
09:54it's for a $250,000
09:56purse.
09:56With the yeah the
09:58faithful banish
09:59people they don't
10:00murder.
10:00They don't murder
10:01them but they
10:01exile you know
10:02get them exiled.
10:03It's carnage.
10:04Yeah and it's fun.
10:05I mean you have
10:06it's one of those
10:06things you have to
10:07go with it but
10:08once you go with
10:08it it's actually
10:09fun because in
10:10the back of your
10:11mind you know
10:11that nobody's
10:12actually dying and
10:13it's just a lot of
10:14fun but can you
10:15talk a little bit
10:16more about sort of
10:16how you figured
10:17out how to play
10:18it because your
10:20hosting or the
10:21character you play
10:22as host is just a
10:24delicious delicious
10:25part of it.
10:26Well I mean I
10:28sort of we really
10:30leant into the
10:31thing saying it was
10:31my castle and that
10:34I lived there.
10:35I mean still all
10:37these years on and
10:38seasons on people
10:38still ask me if that
10:39is actually my
10:40castle.
10:42and it's not.
10:44But I think we
10:46I think the sort of
10:48idea of making it
10:50seem like a sort of
10:51murder weekend thing
10:54we all know those
10:54tropes and that sort
10:55of genre and so
10:57the fact that it is
10:58in an old castle it
10:59kind of makes it a
11:00little more timeless
11:01there's not really
11:02contemporary references
11:03on screen so it
11:05has this makes it
11:06more easy to sort of
11:07be removed from the
11:10present and and a
11:13lot of the games are
11:14sort of you know
11:16doing sort of old
11:18parts of the estate
11:19or old mausoleums or
11:21things like that so I
11:22guess it's just a thing
11:23of trying to create a
11:26world that is very
11:28very different from
11:28what people are used
11:30to and also it's like
11:31a psychological torture
11:34experiment.
11:35you know people are
11:36in a bubble and
11:38they're kept away from
11:39their normal lives and
11:40they I mean to me it's
11:41fascinating it's I
11:42call it Lord of the
11:44Flies with Botox
11:45because it's sort of
11:47you see people
11:48spiraling.
11:49That said we're very
11:51big on duty of care.
11:53Yeah yes indeed.
11:54Yeah there's lots of
11:56psychological help but
11:57it is a really
11:58interesting experiment
11:59sociologically as well
12:00to watch.
12:01Oh and I think there I
12:03think you may have a new
12:04tagline there that's
12:06awesome.
12:07Frances what have you
12:08from a pure audience
12:10perspective what is it
12:11meant to have this very
12:13very marquee show have
12:15you seen can you trace
12:16viewership to subscriber
12:19acquisition for Peacock can
12:21you tell me sort of what
12:21it's really meant is
12:23buzzy this and Love
12:25Island it seems like a
12:28one-two punch of really
12:29good reality for you.
12:31Yeah I mean that is
12:33actually our strategy to
12:34sort of build up the
12:35unscripted on Peacock
12:36really focusing on shows
12:38that will drive the
12:39conversation we actually
12:41want our viewers and fans
12:42to do the evangelizing for
12:44us and they do they
12:45really this social
12:47conversation around this
12:48show is really tremendous
12:51and you know huge volume
12:53and it does create a bit of
12:54a FOMO moment for those
12:56who aren't watching so it's
12:57very much a part of the
12:58temple and then we've
12:59just added married at
13:00first sight to that which
13:02will be bringing the next
13:04season right at the end of
13:06Love Island which is
13:06obviously sort of going on
13:07right now so that's a you
13:10know key part of the
13:10strategy you know in terms
13:12of the audience yes it is
13:14it is big our aspiration is
13:16we think that we're only
13:17just getting started on it
13:18it is very broad having the
13:21exposure on NBC the huge
13:23scale of broadcast which
13:25should open it up to a
13:26quite a different audience
13:28which is obviously somewhat
13:29older but very different
13:30from the peacock audience
13:31we think is a real real
13:33opportunity for it so and
13:35and that is the Traders
13:37New Blood yes it's
13:39premiering in September on
13:42NBC what is the what is the
13:44permutation there for the
13:46show it'll be you said
13:49non-celebrity yes the most
13:51critical difference obviously
13:53is these are regular people
13:55who play we cast from we
13:58had tens of thousands of
14:00people who wanted to do the
14:01show and it was sort of like
14:04a fairly rigorous casting I
14:06think we came up with a
14:07really amazing cast and we
14:10just taped it I don't know
14:11you want to add anything it
14:13is a really great cast I have
14:15I think the casting people did
14:16such a great job it's
14:17fascinating are you kind of
14:19the same character or do you
14:20have a new character no I'm
14:21still him and it's it's
14:24essentially the same it's
14:25just with everyday Americans
14:28that's what I keep saying I've
14:30invited everyday Americans to
14:32my castle and the other thing
14:34is that because of the 42
14:36minute broadcast hour it means
14:39that the show like on Peacock
14:41it's one whole day each
14:43episode usually and so on this
14:46it's kind of different it's
14:47sometimes splits up in the
14:49middle and so it's got an
14:50interesting I mean it's
14:52actually like you say it's
14:53constantly being rejigged and
14:56rebooted and there's some
14:57twists that are new and and
14:59actually the format with it not
15:01being in the same you know one
15:03episode per show really changes
15:05it up to the pacing that's
15:06very different the pacing has
15:08to be sort of much quicker I
15:10think the other thing is that
15:12the prize money is extremely
15:15meaningful for some of the
15:16celebrities the the prize is
15:19meaningful I am not going to
15:20lie I think Rob really you know
15:24that was life-changing money for
15:26him but for these people this is
15:28really you know that that's a
15:30very meaningful difference let me
15:32ask you Alan what's been the
15:34reaction in Scotland in the area
15:37where you where you film it and
15:39where just in general to having
15:41the spotlight on on this part of
15:44the country it's been pretty huge
15:47like the British but studio
15:49Lambert is the production company
15:50that makes it and we like they do
15:52the British one and the American
15:53one so usually I either go before
15:57or after the British one and so
16:00obviously that's on on the BBC so
16:03they have this and now right now on
16:05BBC iPlayer our last season is on so
16:09they have this double whammy of of
16:12it and I think it's sort of like I
16:16think you know there's a huge crew
16:17it makes a really big dent into the
16:21local community economy but I think
16:25people just really like the way because
16:26it is a very much we really showcase
16:29Scotland and it's beauty and it's sort
16:32of tradition actually so yeah and tartan
16:37sales and be going up the wazoo well
16:40that must be as a native son that must
16:42be that must be gratifying to see
16:44bring a little spotlight oh yes I
16:46really I really enjoy also I think you
16:48know we are very good at playing with
16:50our image and we're quite sort of we
16:53we're a very progressive country but we
16:55also you know have our traditions I
16:58always say that being Scottish it's
17:01sort of like all the tradition in
17:02history is sort of ground up and in the
17:04marrow of your bones it doesn't matter
17:06where you are you still you have
17:08Scotland in you you wear your crest on
17:11your I would imagine that it's done a
17:13lot for Scottish tourism absolutely it
17:16does really sort of showcase the
17:18landscape it's so beautiful that yeah
17:20totally okay last question if there was
17:25who who is the the the celebrity
17:28participant for the for the traders
17:30itself who is the person you would most
17:33like to cast in the show regardless of
17:36whether they'd actually do it who Alan
17:38would you like to see cast and who
17:40Francis from your long history of
17:43working with Bravo Leberties and
17:44others who would you like to see in
17:46that house well I saw a thing on
17:49Instagram last week that Michelle Obama
17:51said she would if there was any reality
17:54show she's going to go on it would be
17:56fierce but she would be a faithful she
17:59said and it's just so nuts to me that
18:02the idea of Michelle Obama and Barack I
18:05suppose watching the traders it's kind
18:07of crazy about the the sort of spectrum
18:10of the audience it's amazing but I think
18:15that would be unreasonable to imagine she
18:17might do it but I really think Martha
18:19Stewart should do it and I don't think
18:21it seems that impossible noted I would
18:25probably go might not be able to make it
18:30because of his schedule I'd go Jalen Brunson
18:32right now all right you would be really
18:35fun getting them in shape kill those
18:38challenges I wouldn't say no to Meryl Streep
18:42either okay no one says no to Meryl Streep
18:44anybody can give her a call we have a job
18:47for her thank you so much this has been
18:50really fun thank you so much for a very
18:52entertaining show and congrats again it's
18:55hard to get a hit these days people give
18:57it up for Alan Cumming and Francis Baring
19:00thank you very much
19:01thank you
19:01you
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