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00:00Fans of McLaren, they all submit stories of why they're like the greatest McLaren racing fan ever,
00:06and then they get picked to go to the F1 race, but they have an experience that blows their mind.
00:21Thank you both for joining me.
00:24Talking about making moments matter.
00:26So I wanted to start by asking both of you to talk about a campaign that you recently oversaw and
00:32how you actually made it matter.
00:34You want to go first?
00:35Up to you.
00:37Go ahead.
00:37Okay.
00:39First of all, we were talking about, I'm just happy to be doing anything with my friend Jill, so this
00:43is fun.
00:44We actually love to talk to each other.
00:47We're emotional support systems for one another.
00:49That should be a whole separate conversation.
00:51Look, we're already throwing your discussion guide into chaos.
00:54We should have just had a camera.
00:56I mean, we just need a coffee clutch.
00:57It's too hot.
00:59Okay.
00:59Let me see.
01:00I have been fortunate to be talking quite a bit about what we're doing with JCPenney the past couple of
01:06days,
01:06which I will admit as a marketer is not for the faint of heart to go after a true legacy
01:13mid-tier department store,
01:16but there's so much in that proposition that I've really fallen in love with,
01:21and the idea of getting past maybe some dated notions about it.
01:26A lot of people are like, oh, I shopped at JCPenney with my mom or my grandma.
01:29I'm like, come now.
01:31Give it a try.
01:32And it's an alternative to a lot of places you shop, like Off Price, which is why we sort of
01:37have created this declarative.
01:39Like, my dress is JCPenney.
01:41This is JCPenney.
01:43I wanted to, yeah.
01:43Yeah, Belle V, our new private label brand, and people go, JCPenney, like you just did, and it's like, yes,
01:52JCPenney,
01:52and I want you to own it with pride as opposed to any other emotion that is more of a
01:59question mark.
01:59So the declarative, yes, JCPenney, and surprising regular people with great things at great prices is, I mean,
02:11I just think it's hugely meaningful in, with forgiveness to the fact that I know this is a global conference,
02:18I will say, for our American consumers who have genuine affordability issues right now,
02:24but they don't want any less than people with huge economic means.
02:29They want Nike sneakers for their kids, and they want the beauty products that they want,
02:34and they want really cute fashion for themselves and for back to school,
02:38and we make that really accessible and affordable, and I just love that.
02:42So that is the overall approach, more than a campaign.
02:47I would love to also give you a Brooks Brothers example, but maybe we should let Jill go,
02:52and then I can go to Brooks Brothers next.
02:54Yeah, why don't we talk about MasterCard, and then we'll come back to Brooks Brothers.
02:56All right, great.
02:56You know, so I'm new to MasterCard, so I've been there almost seven months now,
03:01and obviously Priceless is an iconic brand campaign, but I was learning it from the inside.
03:06In terms of moments that matter, we're a sponsor of McLaren, MasterCard, Formula One team,
03:12and I went to my first F1 race, which is a whole other thing I had to learn,
03:16and we do this thing called Team Priceless, where fans of McLaren, they all submit stories of why
03:24they're like the greatest McLaren racing fan ever, and then they get picked to go to the F1 race,
03:30but they have an experience that blows their mind.
03:33So there were these four women.
03:35So first of all, McLaren is a really popular team with women and with younger fans.
03:41And I went in, and I just sat with them.
03:43They were sitting in the paddock club.
03:45The day before they had met the two drivers, Oscar and Lando,
03:49they had no idea they were going to meet them, and they were all telling me,
03:52I asked them, like, what did you submit?
03:54They were so different.
03:56It was so personal.
03:57They were then ending up in this experience that was life-changing for them.
04:04But it was just so beautiful to see up close, and I love that.
04:09That, to me, is like an authentic way of saying, if we say that, you know,
04:13there are priceless moments and these moments that really matter,
04:16and then seeing it, and I loved that it was for women.
04:19I really loved that.
04:20Okay, let's go back to Brooks Brothers now.
04:22That was a great story.
04:23Thank you very much.
04:23Well, I love that, and I know Jill and I will talk more.
04:26I mean, what I, I was just going to reflect on your work.
04:29What I think is so cool about the universality of priceless is that it's not really monetary.
04:35You're not putting a price tag on it, and I think there is an analogy to what we're trying to
04:40tell you
04:40is, like, you can have great things in an affordable way,
04:44and that thrill you get when you get something great for a great deal, it's kind of real.
04:50I mean, I love that personally as a shopper.
04:52So spreading that.
04:54Okay, Brooks Brothers.
04:55So Brooks Brothers, do you know Brooks Brothers is the oldest retailer in America since 1818?
05:00Did you guys know that?
05:01I didn't know that.
05:02The oldest.
05:03So many firsts, like, invented the button-down collared shirt.
05:08Like, so many firsts.
05:11And so in thinking about how to take the marketing forward, there's a bit of, how do we do two
05:17things?
05:18So I have kind of two campaigns that work together.
05:20One we're calling Moments, because there are people that have these beautiful, like, Brooks Brothers has a place in their
05:28memory.
05:28Like, that is where my dad took me to get my first suit.
05:32Like, those types of stories.
05:34And I do think there's something about taking a regular shopping moment and making it a Brooks Brothers moment for
05:40these special occasions that is real.
05:42It is authentic, it's not contrived, it's not marketing, it is truly pulling out something to the, you know, the
05:48name of our panel that is real in culture and telling those stories.
05:53Wedding day.
05:54First job.
05:55So you're going to see us celebrate kind of the classicism and the weight of those moments.
06:00At the same time, there are probably a lot of people out here that might not think of Brooks Brothers
06:05as being for them.
06:06I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, you are not probably a head-to-toe Brooks Brothers customer, but if
06:11I could get you to see how incredible quality and great the pieces are and make it yours.
06:17Throw a great cashmere sweater on, put a blazer on over your own pair of jeans.
06:21So that's the other campaign we've been doing is kind of themed to the idea of make it yours and
06:25showing interesting people like Leslie Bibb, the comedian Alex Edelman, style icons.
06:32Very, very, like, interesting, smart people.
06:34No one who looks, no one who doesn't have substance.
06:37And showing how they styled Brooks Brothers.
06:40And I think it's, to be able to do both of those things at the same time is, for me,
06:46very exciting for this brand.
06:48Marissa, you're very good at your job.
06:49I suddenly had an image of Brooks Brothers in my closet after you appealed to me directly.
06:55Game on.
06:55Listen, anyone, I will get, by the way, anyone who wants a JCPenney gift card to give it a try,
07:01I will have one for you after you just have to show me.
07:04Look at the hand.
07:04You just have to show me when you go back.
07:07You've got to, like, actually use it and send me, like, a DM on Instagram what you bought.
07:11Okay?
07:12We had a lot of raised hands.
07:13All right.
07:14Deal.
07:15Afterwards, you got it.
07:16You got it.
07:17Jill, talk to me about what risk-taking looks like for MasterCard.
07:20And how do you sort of stay true to the brand but also push the envelope and appeal to new
07:27consumers?
07:28Yeah.
07:28The first thing was, like, having a 30-year-old brand line is a blessing.
07:33But you also don't want to take it for granted.
07:35So the first, I don't know if it was a risk or not, but we clearly had permission to interrogate
07:42it.
07:42Like, don't assume it's going to still work, but really, no.
07:46But I think, for me, it's less risk-taking and more lifting up voices.
07:52Like, I talked to the team members today from Poland and Germany and Singapore, and they had this great idea.
08:00Like, one of the best ideas I've heard about, in a 10-minute coffee, quick connect this morning.
08:05And so for me, it's the risk is if you don't let all these great ideas come to life.
08:11Because when you have a big global brand and you really do know who you are, you could get into
08:15a repetitive space.
08:16And actually, the risk is not letting new creative ideas bubble up.
08:21So what I'm obsessed with is how do we find ways to make sure that those ideas would normally just
08:26get executed quietly in Central Europe?
08:29And it may not even be overly discussed, but it's actually such a big idea.
08:33I'm like, can we take that to Southeast Asia?
08:35Can we take it to Latin America?
08:36It was so smart and so creative.
08:38So for me, it's creating the conditions where every idea feels like it has the right to be heard is
08:44the most important moment.
08:47Will it be risky or not?
08:49I don't know.
08:50But I know what's the danger of getting too homogenized.
08:57Marissa, I wanted to talk to you about right now in the fashion space, obviously, there's lots of fluidity, right?
09:03And people are trying to find brands that work for them.
09:05How important is getting people to come into your stores versus the online experience?
09:11And how do you make both those moments matter?
09:13It's very important.
09:15And I will tell you, the majority of our business across the whole Catalyst portfolio, so obviously, JCPenney, Brooks Brothers,
09:23Aero Postal, Lucky Brand, Nautica, they are still predominantly stores first in where the majority of the business is.
09:31It doesn't mean we don't love and need and rely on our dot-com business and, of course, thinking about
09:36it in an omnichannel way.
09:37We also, on some of the other brands, have distribution in other retailers.
09:41Like, Lucky Brand, you can find it in Macy's.
09:43So it's multifaceted, but the stores part is real, and I think one of the interesting themes, I don't know
09:52how much you've been hearing it is, I mean, of course, everyone knew AI would be prevalent in Cannes, but
09:58there's this other piece that is about how much people are craving in-person experiences to kind of counterbalance that,
10:05right?
10:05What you just described in McLaren.
10:07You were telling me that, like, people are going back to the mall.
10:10They are going back to the mall.
10:11I was surprised at that.
10:13Yeah, and that's great when we look at, like, our Aero Postal business, which is young.
10:18I mean, it's more of a, like, let's call it a teen-first business, and they want to go shopping
10:23with their friends.
10:24And they also want the affordability, which is why that brand proposition's doing really well right now.
10:30So, yes, now, does it mean all stores in all locations are thriving?
10:36No.
10:36Sometimes they're in tough spots or in malls that aren't vibrant, and, of course, that's the challenge in any business.
10:42You have parts that are good and parts that aren't so good.
10:45But in general, we are firmly committed to real-world shopping along with digital.
10:53Jill, talk to me a little bit more about the real-world and MasterCard.
10:57How important is it to bring consumers together for experiential activation so that they can understand the power of the
11:04MasterCard brand
11:05but also experience something that may not be directly related to using their credit card?
11:10Yeah, I think for MasterCard, we're part of a much bigger ecosystem because the way we go to market is
11:16with partners, with customers.
11:18So it automatically makes you a very collaborative entity, which is really nice.
11:24And whether that be through co-brands that you have, it's through financial institutions who issue the cards, it's the
11:30small businesses that accept the cards.
11:33So there's all the ways that we end up going to market is really – it's never a just-us
11:40proposition.
11:40And it's a big part of how we market and how our brand is created.
11:44People have to feel like they have the right to participate in it, and you can, along with a co
11:49-brand, create a priceless experience.
11:51You can, along with a sponsorship partner, create priceless experiences.
11:55You can, with financial institutions, do that.
11:58That's one piece of it.
11:59The other piece of it is the different ways people now pay and the way they think of where the
12:06convenience for that and the value for that is.
12:09So the partnerships with Apple, for example, those are all really critical pieces of how we understand what actually matters
12:21to the end users.
12:22Because the brand never gets isolated, and that's a really big gift.
12:27And then when you do the priceless experiences, you really learn from the audience.
12:32We get more than we give.
12:35I can promise you that, as incredible as those experiences are, you really learn about those people, what matters to
12:41them actually.
12:42And that's a constant source of direct insight for the brand.
12:46Do the partnerships with Apple, does that reach a specific demographic that you may not reach otherwise, would you say?
12:53Well, you know, what's so interesting is, most people know, I mean, the biggest generational transfer of wealth is about
12:59to happen with Gen Z through 2030.
13:01And so, like, don't assume they're not going to make the rules.
13:05They will.
13:06And that's why you have to be, it's not going to be, this is how we want you to interact
13:11with the brand and our partners and our customers, but understanding how you want to interact with the brand.
13:16But there is a challenge of making sure that what has become seamless and almost invisible is actually critical to
13:26some of the things that matter most to those people as they participate in, like, shopping and buying and economies.
13:33And I really love this creator.
13:35I want to buy what they're selling.
13:36Is that a safe link to click on?
13:38You know, all of those things still exist.
13:40And we need to make sure that we're raising it up in the right way with the right audiences.
13:45This is a question for both of you.
13:47Speaking of creators, how do each of you work with creators?
13:49And how do you make sure that creators make sense for your brand and your mission?
13:56Well, we have a portfolio of brands.
13:58So it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
14:02I think it's nice that we're saying creators versus influencers, but however you dub it.
14:07I mean, look, I think it is...
14:10Is it important to have creators endorsing your product in the retail space?
14:14How important is it?
14:15I think it is if it comes from a place where it's not commoditized, if you can avoid that.
14:23Like, where I get a little allergic is when it's somebody who's talking about my brand today and talking about
14:30another similar brand the next day.
14:32And it's sometimes a little hard to control for that.
14:36So for me, and this has been...
14:38I mean, I go back over 10 years to my Taco Bell days when we were doing Friendsgiving before...
14:43I mean, before this was a thing, we were inviting influential friends of the brand to have dinner with us.
14:49And they would create content because it was so fun.
14:52Like, to me, that is still inspirational.
14:56People that actually love your brand are by far going to be the best people to tell your story.
15:01And by the way, that goes all the way up to if we're working with a bigger celebrity.
15:08Like, we have a bigger celebrity we're about to introduce on Lucky Brand, who's a musician.
15:13And it came out of him genuinely wearing Lucky Brand jeans and liking them.
15:18So for me, that's the best case scenario.
15:20It doesn't always work that way.
15:22But when you have people that have those genuine stories to tell, it's great.
15:27On Aeropostale, we also have our store associates who are able to opt in and be on our A-team
15:33and work as influencers, too.
15:36Which is perfect for that kind of a brand.
15:39And that's something I'd love to see us do on more of our brands.
15:41How big of an influencer do some of your store associates become?
15:44How big of a following do they have?
15:46Or is this still a pilot program?
15:49No, no.
15:50It's not a pilot program.
15:51It pre-existed me.
15:52I give the team credit.
15:54But looking at it and figuring out how to grow it and resource it.
15:57And, I mean, what better ambassador?
16:00Really, when you're in retail, your best ambassadors should and could and should be your own store associates.
16:06So when they're feeling that love, and then they're maybe even a little bit incentivized to feel like,
16:11hey, if you want to share that love and tell those stories to your own friends and followers,
16:16that that's good for you and it's good for us, it's a great model.
16:20Jill, same question for you about MasterCard, about influencers.
16:23And also, if you want to add social media, the role that social media plays in terms of connecting your
16:28consumers and the consumer experience.
16:30Yeah, for us, it's a very hyper-local play because of that whole ecosystem that I was talking about.
16:38Like, the influencers have to be really organic to the community that they're influencing.
16:43And that could be, so it always comes to us.
16:47It's the best when it comes to us the way Marissa just described.
16:50They reach out to us and they say, there's something we love about your brand.
16:54We love what you stand for.
16:55We love the concept of doing well by doing good.
16:57We love the way you help, you know, this, that, or the other thing.
17:00And so, giving the team the power to curate that everywhere is really critical to the authenticity of those communities.
17:09And that's the way right now we go about it.
17:12We then track them globally.
17:14We track them and make sure that the overall system and the investment is working, but they're curated team by
17:20team.
17:22We have time for one last question.
17:23I was wondering if you could both talk about, we talked about Gen Z and the amount of income that
17:28is coming into the marketplace.
17:30What do you think the future looks like for appealing to Gen Z and also engaging them with your brands?
17:35We can start with MasterCard.
17:37Yeah, I think it really starts with understanding what matters to them.
17:40I was just going through a bunch of data the other day, like what is affluent to Gen Z is
17:47very different than what has mattered to prior generations.
17:51And if you don't listen and you keep talking the previous story, I think that they will correct you very
17:57quickly.
17:58So, it's a gift.
18:00There is a very vocal audience.
18:01They very much know what they want.
18:03They will give you feedback.
18:05So, participate, listen, learn, and adapt.
18:09But that's going to be very interesting to watch.
18:11And I think the danger there is not listening.
18:15Well, Jill, you used the word homogenize before about something else.
18:18I mean, it's obviously dangerous to homogenize assumptions about an entire generation that's only united by age.
18:26I mean, there's so many differences.
18:29And like I said, I mean, even here at a global festival in Europe, global, mine are more U.S.
18:37Even within the United States, one market, profound differences.
18:40But I think to find those common threads, I mean, because Gen Z has grown up totally native to technology.
18:48And also, I think maybe even more aware than people my age of the craving the real world experiences.
18:57I think that's interesting that Gen Z is the one that's like leading the charge going back into the mall,
19:02for example.
19:03Well, I think they are savvy.
19:06I really do.
19:07And I think some of the, as Jill said, the preconceived notions we may have about what they consider status
19:14and maybe what they don't can be rearranged.
19:19So that, to me, creates a lot of opportunity, especially in leading legacy brands where reinvention is possible, is there's
19:29always a new moment to get them to reconsider.
19:32And actually, what's interesting, even with JCPenney, is we have teens.
19:36Our teen business is really good at JCPenney right now.
19:39So it's really, really interesting how we obviously have to bring our intuition, our expertise as marketers, but also be
19:47humble enough to learn about people who are different from ourselves and what they really want.
19:52And how lucky we are right now to actually have the ability and the means to meet that emerging generation
19:59on their terms as diverse as they will be.
20:03Because I think it would have been challenging in the past.
20:06The tools are a gift right now.
20:09Jill and Marissa, we could keep going on and on.
20:10This has been a fantastic conversation.
20:12Thank you both so much for your time.
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