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00:00Tonight is the night. The U.S. men's national team begins a knockout phase of the 2026 World Cup
00:06as they face off with Bosnia. Round of 32 in Santa Clara.
00:12Brian Dunthish is an absolute star. He joins me right now. He serves as a match analyst for MLS
00:17on Apple TV. Brian, of course, represented Team USA at the 2000 Summer Olympic Games in Sydney
00:25and played nine seasons in MLS. Unbelievable. Brian, welcome to Shine Time.
00:30I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
00:32You've been covering the World Cup. You've been all over the place.
00:36In general, we've been talking about it nonstop. I think this has been, and Team USA is part of it,
00:41but in terms of the quality of the matches, the stars coming to play, the upsets,
00:46best World Cup I've ever seen.
00:48It's certainly checked all the boxes. Listen, I've been in Mexico. I've been based in Monterey,
00:52which is arguably the most beautiful setup with the stadium and the mountains in the background,
00:57and just being amongst the Mexican fans each and every game. For them, they just wanted to be
01:02wowed. They wanted to be, you know, impressed and fall in love. And they became Swedish fans.
01:06They became Japanese fans. They became Moroccan fans. And all of a sudden, in these songs,
01:10they're saying, now you are Mexican because you've impressed us. But here in the States,
01:14up north of the border in Canada, it's been incredible to see the fandom. And the numbers
01:18certainly prove that this has been the biggest World Cup we've seen so far.
01:22Without question. And look, Team USA has looked amazing. First two games, which to me,
01:27that's all that matters, right? I could say that. You know, just absolutely dominant. The last game
01:33didn't matter. I like the way that we played it in terms of getting guys, different guys into the
01:39mix, into the rotation. Pulisic getting Kim back involved. What has stood out to you how Team USA has
01:45played? Urgency. Urgency on both sides of the ball. Listen, I've been based with primarily a British
01:51based group on the production side. And as we're watching the games, I was almost just waiting for
01:55them to start to needle me and look to kind of make fun of like the American version of the
01:59World
01:59Cup. But they instantly fell in love. They couldn't believe how physical we were defensively,
02:03how quickly in transition moments we were. And none of us should really be surprised. And listen,
02:08I've been very fortunate. I've been covering the U.S. for the better part of the last three and a
02:12half years. I was there day one when Marisa Pochettino joined up in Austin. And what I can
02:16tell you is there's we often kind of like weaponize the conversation about vibes and atmosphere,
02:21which is like relaxed and a brotherhood. And these guys have been together for the better part of the
02:25last 10 to 11 years. But the moment they step on the field, there's this sense of urgency. There's
02:31this sense of passion and commitment. And I think for Mariso being an Argentine, having played in the
02:35World Cup, having experienced Europe, the moment that you step on the field and that crest is on your
02:40chest, there is a there's a responsibility to give everything to lay it on the line. And the sweat,
02:46the blood, the tears is everything that we've seen. And I think that's what surprised people the most.
02:50Man, the way you just said that, Brian, I had the chills up and down my body. I mean,
02:54that's incredible. And you feel it, right? I mean, the vibes, the coaching, Pochettino's an
02:58unbelievable job. So I want you to kind of slam that home because I loved his strategy. I thought he
03:05nailed it last week. I thought that was the right thing to do. I also thought what he did,
03:10the way he handled Pulisic was unbelievable and really gained, I thought, between the years for
03:16Christian, for the team, for everyone, a lot of confidence leading into tonight. Take us through
03:22the stamp that he's put on Team USA. It's no frills. It's very simplistic and it's all about
03:29commitment. Yeah. And listen, I can separate all of the different conversations because I
03:34absolutely understand where Christian, Eunice Moussa and anyone else involved in the summer last year
03:39were thinking about how can I physically be as refreshed as possible to make sure once kickoff
03:45happens at SoFi, I'm flying and raring to go. But within that conversation, there's a notion of
03:49subtraction equals multiplication. And during the Gold Cup and the buildup in the fall when Christian
03:54was injured in the second half against Australia, all of a sudden there was like this belief that
03:59the guys could actually win without Christian. And that's not a negative, that's a positive.
04:03So within all of this, I think guys like Chris Richards really started to shine. We already knew
04:08Tyler Adams and we already knew Weston McKinney, but kind of the margins of players that maybe were
04:14seeding responsibility because Christian is such an incredible player that all of a sudden they kind
04:19of chest was back a little bit, a little bit deeper breath, bigger presence. And all of a sudden
04:23they're like, hold on a second. We know what we're capable of doing. So it was more, and again,
04:28separate the idea of individuals, more about the collective of the responsibility of how Mauricio
04:32wanted to set the tone. So I love that. I also love what Mauricio said after the last game last
04:37week.
04:37He said, look, we're not in it to get out of the round of 32. We're in it to win
04:41the World
04:41Cup, which I loved. And I appreciated that in terms of a perspective. And I thought last
04:46week was great and the vibes are great. You hit it home. And I can't believe I'm going
04:50to ask it this way, but I know what I'll say tomorrow if we lose tonight. So if Team USA
04:57loses tonight and I think we're going to win and win big, is the World Cup a failure?
05:03Listen, reality would say yes. The problem that I have that is because the expectations in the bar
05:09have been set so much higher because of the way that we're playing and the perception that Bosnia
05:13and Herzegovina isn't a massive team. This isn't like Netherlands getting Morocco, who's the best
05:18team in Africa. This is a different conversation. So in this conversation, Bosnia and Herzegovina,
05:23six consecutive draws. But in that, they've knocked out Wales and knocked out Italy out of World Cup
05:28participation. Drew against Canada, they lose against Sweden. They beat Qatar. So based on the
05:33numbers, based on the idea, everybody expects the U.S. to be comfortable. As I say that, everybody
05:39expected Germany to be comfortable. And Paraguay, the team that the U.S. dismantled in the opening
05:44game, all of a sudden the context of that result looks different now that they've sent Germany home.
05:48Take us through Bosnia, a breakdown of the team. What stands out when you started them?
05:53One of my favorite stories is obviously Edin Dzeko and the history of a goal scorer and everything.
05:57When you talk about Benzema and you talk about Harry Kane and you talk about all of the goal
06:01scorers of kind of that last generation, he is etched in stone in terms of like the culture and the
06:08identity and the ability, everything that is Bosnia and Herzegovina football. What I will tell you is
06:12there's a young player named Ezra Bayraktarovic. He was in Wisconsin, went to the New England
06:18Revolution as a 14-year-old to join the academy. He's tried, he's trusted, he's built through Major
06:22League Soccer and he was actually played for the U.S. men's national team. Very first game that he
06:28starred, two nutmegs quickly, but he made it very clear, I'm going to play for Bosnia and Herzegovina
06:32if that opportunity shows itself. Major League Soccer has been an incredible development and we've
06:37seen that for Bosnia and Herzegovina as well as the U.S. Those are the two major players, but again,
06:44heart and soul, grit and determination. Between the years, the margins are incredibly thin.
06:48I want to talk to you about the incredible record, the impact, the MLS, which to me is hotter and
06:54better than ever. I love watching the MLS, love watching them on Apple TV. The record impact the
07:00MLS has had on the World Cup because it's really, it's incredible. The league has already set, you
07:06know, all sorts of records in terms of all the different categories and the number of players to
07:11play. So take us through that because I think it's just absolutely amazing. Well, first, I need to make
07:16it very clear. I joined in 1997. I was the second Project 40 player. I was the youngest player in
07:20Major League Soccer. And when I look at the facilities, when I look at the infrastructure,
07:24when I look at the investment, when I look at the ownership, Major League Soccer, I am so envious and
07:29jealous at the same time because this generation has everything at their fingertips, which is what
07:34Tony Miola and Alexi Lawless and Marcelo Balboa, John Harkes, Eric Winola, Tabra, it's what we all
07:38dreamed of back in 1996. I was a young kid coming out of Southern California watching the World Cup at
07:43the
07:43Rose Bowl, being on the outside looking. I couldn't afford tickets. So to think about from that
07:47moment, the launch of MLS being a part of it and now seeing, you know, guys like Alex Freeman, 18
07:51months ago, he was making his debut in Major League Soccer. Now he's over in Spain, $6 million going in
07:57the opposite direction. Mauricio Pochino says he is the future, potentially the best in his position
08:01going down worldwide, not just in the league. Sebastian Berhalter makes his name without his father,
08:06a little bit different. And obviously, the context of when you think about Michael Bradley versus Bob
08:12Bradley, Sebastian's done it by himself, the same way Michael did. And now he's gotten a goal and
08:17assist playing for the Vancouver Whitecaps in the World Cup. All of these stories are phenomenal. You
08:21talk about Matt Freeze and goal. You talk about the depth of this roster. Even all of these players,
08:25when you talk about Chris Richards, Tyler Adams, Weston McKinney, etc., they were all built in the
08:29U.S. They started in Major League Soccer. So to see either games played or goals or minutes or
08:35appearances, all of these things, what it does is it continues to show the growth and how nimble this
08:40ownership and leadership group has been in Major League Soccer. I give them the utmost amount of
08:44credit. Brian, which nation is the team to beat right now? France. No hesitation. And I agree with
08:50you, by the way. Take us through it. Yeah, listen, I projected France, Argentina in a repeat of the
08:54final that we saw in Qatar in 2022. I just think when you think about Mbappe, you think about Dembele,
08:59you think about Due, Barcala. Eketike goes down with the Achilles injury with Liverpool. He's not even
09:03here. I mean, you can take off a Michael Alise, who's, in my humble opinion, if not the best,
09:09one of the best. And you can bring on Ryan Cherki, who's at Man City and absolutely flying. So
09:14the depth and position, the competition factor, and pure talent. I mean, there's a reason why
09:20they scored 10 goals in the first four matches. How would you rate the United States, along with
09:24Canada, along with Mexico, so far as host nations? I feel like it's been viewed in a successful way,
09:31but how do you rate them when it's all said and done? Yeah, so far, it's a 10 out of
09:3510 for all
09:36three. Listen, I know, let's start with Canada. Jesse Marsh and the emotional presence, and he's
09:41not afraid to be, what's the right way, very active. That's right. That's right. He's very
09:47active. That's Jesse. Now, that's Jesse in real life. It was as a player, is as a coach.
09:51The disappointment is they ended up in second, that they wanted to be in Canada throughout the
09:54course of this tournament until the very depth of the knockout round. Mexico and Mexico City,
10:00untouchable. And should England progress the next round, I think Mexico handles the business at
10:05Azteca, just when you talk about altitude, heat and humidity, everything that comes along with it.
10:09And then for the United States, listen, I can't even imagine stepping on the field with the crest
10:14on your chest. I was lucky enough to be the captain of the Olympic team in 2000, going to the
10:17bronze
10:17medal match, and I can vividly remember walking on the field, and you could hear the national anthem,
10:22you're like, oh my God, I've made it. But then I know I have so much further to go. There's
10:26nothing
10:27like that. And so for all of these guys, the one thing I'll remind everybody is that Qatar in 2022,
10:32they were babies, wet behind the ears. And now you talk to Tyler Adams, you talk to Wes,
10:36and they're like, we know what to expect, we know how to prepare, and we understand how we need to
10:41get
10:41ourselves into the right moment.
10:43Man, listen, Catlin has been great. Mexico has been great. That scene in Mexico last night
10:48was unbelievable. I mean, it was pitch perfect. And all these different venues for the United
10:52States, I mean, it's just been everything. Everything right with soccer, sports, patriotism,
10:58it checks every single box. I'm fascinated to get your take on the choice of MetLife Stadium,
11:04which to me, let me just say this as a football guy, kind of a nondescript stadium. What's your
11:10take on that as a choice for the World Cup final?
11:13Yeah, I choose not to walk myself into a cul-de-sac when it comes to this. What I will
11:17say,
11:17listen, I'm a kid from LA, right? So I grew up with like the Coliseum, and I grew up with
11:21just the identity of what the, you know, the Rose Bowl, these were, you know, even when the Big A
11:26was,
11:26you know, Georgia Frontier and the Rams were playing. So I'm in a different generation.
11:30What I will tell you, as a kid growing up in Southern California, my first stop was in Boston
11:35and coming down to play the Metro Stars in Giant Stadium on the AstroTurf, which is probably
11:40maybe one step above playing in the parking lot. To be in that stadium, it is truly epic,
11:46the size and the sound inside of that bowl. I was lucky enough to be the lead for FIFA Club
11:50World Cup last summer, and you could feel the atmosphere and the culture from a domestic
11:55club side. Imagining what that looks like in real time, and we've already seen glimpses.
11:59We saw it last night with France. To think about a World Cup final is extraordinary.
12:04I'm fascinated to get your take on penalty kicks, deciding these matches, because I almost feel
12:10like, and you're obviously American, and you understand TV and radio and takes and how this
12:15all works. Look, no one's ever had a problem with it, right? But now it's on U.S. soil, and,
12:20you know, people with microphones and wearing makeup with hair, and now saying, oh, you can't
12:25do this, and you can't do that. I'm fine with it. I don't think we should be telling everyone
12:29how soccer should be played. Like, I'm cool with it. What's your take?
12:33Yeah, listen, again, I was in Major League Soccer when they had the shootout from 35 yards
12:37out. You know, if it was a tie, you had the ball at your foot, you had five seconds to
12:40beat
12:41the goalkeeper from 35 yards out. The jeopardy with penalties is not physical, it's psychological.
12:46And I can promise you, and we saw Joshua Kimmich kind of looking at his teammates,
12:53be like, come on, like, who's next? Who's next? There are guys, and I can promise you,
12:57I played with these guys that are the goal scorers, that are the money makers, that are
13:00like the face, the heart and soul of clubs, and they're scared to death of taking a penalty.
13:04I loved it. I loved just the pressure. I fed off of it. I wanted to be one of the
13:08guys,
13:09but I had teammates that wouldn't show up. And then afterwards, they were kind of like,
13:12oh, well, like, oh, you missed. And it's like, hold on a second. You didn't even take one. You
13:16can't, you can't complain. You can't say anything. So what I'll say is, if you're stepping up to take
13:21a penalty in the World Cup, man, you got guts.
13:24Yeah. Well, and I'm fascinated to get your take on video replay. And by the way, I thought they
13:29got it right in the Germany game. Let me just say that for the record. I thought it was absolutely,
13:33the usage was great. The call was correct. That's how they've been calling that specific penalty
13:38in that play all World Cup long. What's your take on the usage of? I think there's one thing that
13:43we have to understand is it's not universal across all leagues. And the challenge is what we see in
13:48Champions League on a Tuesday and Wednesday night is different than what we see from Premier League
13:53is different. What we see from Major League Soccer. So until there's more of like a universal
13:57understanding of the idea, like subjectiveness, right? What's clear and obvious? What's the idea of,
14:03you know, a penalty with a handball situation, a handling situation? All of these moments. So what
14:09I will say, the consistency in the World Cup has been, it's been consistent in terms of the referee
14:17gets to make the decision. And unless it's insanely clear and obvious, VAR for the most part is letting
14:23the referee have the responsibility of being the right decision or the wrong decision. But that doesn't
14:29lessen the fears or the struggles of when the call doesn't go your way. That's exactly right. Now,
14:34it's been reported that four different players from Germany turned down the chance to take that
14:39six penalty kick before it was ultimately missed. What's your reaction to that? So I did Netherlands,
14:44Morocco, and it was fascinating because Morocco, the coach is like, you, you, you. And whereas
14:52Netherlands is like, okay, who wants to go? And so you already really know. And so what it says,
14:57there's a great article right now, Henry Bushnell over at The Athletic was talking about what the
15:01U.S. is doing and putting on skull caps and doing the whole technology thing and thinking about dominant
15:07right eye, dominant left eye. How can you just calm your nerves, your cerebral vortex, something that's
15:12way outside of my Cal State Fullerton three semesters education. So through all of this, I'm not
15:19surprised. And again, the jeopardy in those moments where fear overtakes confidence, it's a real thing.
15:25All right, before we let you go, give me a prediction on tonight's winner, score, hero,
15:31zero, ebb, flow, who we got and why? I will go U.S. 3-1 winners over Bosnia-Herzegovina and
15:39Chris
15:39Richards gets a goal off a corner. Oh, I love that. Off a corner. Yeah, big man's gonna,
15:43big man's gotta eat. I'd sign up for that. Of course, you catch Brian on Apple TV's MLS coverage
15:49all season long. Brian, great stuff. Enjoy the match tonight and thanks for joining us. Appreciate you, my man.
15:56that's retirer, thank you.
15:56Bye-bye.
15:57Bye-bye.
15:57Bye-bye.
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