- 6 weeks ago
A lot of these guys are now being called overrated after being disrespected their entire careers
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IG: aj_mckenzie416
Twitter: AJMckenzie94847
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00:15Welcome to another edition of Who's Number One.
00:18I'm Trey Winko.
00:19Listen, are you feeling unloved, underappreciated?
00:22You have two choices.
00:24You can either call a 900 number
00:27or just look at the names that made our list on this show.
00:31Never has number two, next in line, also ran, looked so good.
00:34These guys have been called modest, selfless, and unassuming.
00:38They're also known as ESPN Classics' 20 most underrated athletes of all time.
00:462020.
00:48That's good.
00:50Tom Watson was everyone.
00:53Tom Watson was the consummate grinder,
00:56going resolutely about compiling a Hall of Fame resume
00:59that included eight wins in majors, five of them British Opens.
01:03He massed 39 tour victories and his NBA title shy of a career grand slam.
01:10Six times he was player of the year,
01:12but always hovering over him, the shadow of a certain golden bear.
01:17Tom Watson is definitely underrated,
01:19but you know, he was a victim of this time.
01:21Tom Watson is, he's Wayne Gretzky,
01:24he's Michael Jordan.
01:24Tom Watson was next.
01:27That's still great, but next is always next,
01:29and next is never best.
01:36He wasn't the most flamboyant guy, obviously,
01:39and he used to take a lot of heat for that.
01:42Tom Watson was a worker.
01:44There's no question about that.
01:45He was famous for, even when he was playing well,
01:48he'd finish a round and go out and practice.
01:52Dull guys who are great.
01:53What you're supposed to do is not about being flamboyant,
01:56it's about being productive.
01:58We always underrate them.
02:00They can win eight major championships,
02:01they can win all this stuff,
02:02but it's all about excitement.
02:04There was not a lot of pizzazz there.
02:06He's a guy from the Midwest who won golf tournaments.
02:09Definitely underrated.
02:20Edgar Martinez, a fly ball to deep center field.
02:23When you hit over .350 for a season in the major leagues
02:27and nobody knows who you are after you retire,
02:29that's a problem.
02:30It will fly away, Edgar Martinez.
02:34Nineteen.
02:36Edgar Martinez was a DH.
02:38Emphasis on the H, a hitting machine who,
02:41by dint of geography, never got his just due.
02:45In 18 seasons, all in the Seattle frontier outpost,
02:49he wrapped out more than 2,200 hits,
02:51averaged 312, and drove in more than 1,200 runs.
02:55When Ken Griffey Jr. was traded before the 2000 season,
02:58Martinez more than filled that power vacuum
03:01with a league-leading 145 RBI.
03:15Edgar Martinez has to be one of the most underrated baseball players in history,
03:18one of the most clutch hitters in the game,
03:20and defined designated hitter in the American League.
03:23This guy couldn't lose because he never won anything.
03:27Hit for average.
03:28Left-handers, right-handers.
03:30He was a doubles machine.
03:31Yanks it to left center field,
03:33and Edgar's double is tied the game.
03:35He played for a team like the Red Sox or the Yankees.
03:38He may have gotten a bit more pub,
03:40but playing 3,000 miles away from the media center of the country
03:43definitely hurt him.
03:45There is something to Seattle being in the wilderness.
03:48It's not fair to people in Seattle, great athletes,
03:50but they kind of go up there and they disappear from the rest of us.
03:54If you were in New York, you'd be a legend.
04:0018, 18.
04:04Juan Marischal was such an artiste on the mound
04:07that it was a pleasure to see him warm up.
04:09It was a pleasure to sit and watch.
04:1218.
04:15Juan Marischal was such an artiste on the mound
04:18that produced 3,500 innings over 16 seasons.
04:23In a seven-year stretch in the 60s,
04:26the Dominican maestro was a 20-game winner six times for the Giants.
04:30In all, he won 243 games
04:33and compiled an ERA of 2.89 during his Hall of Fame career.
04:39So many outings, so many innings, so many wins, so many things.
04:44I was like shocked.
04:46I'm like, wow.
04:48This is unreal, these numbers.
04:51Oh my God, he's great.
04:55Juan Marischal was the greatest pitcher I ever faced in my life
04:58because he had five pitches he could throw for strikes at any given time.
05:01If you were around when he pitched, he wasn't underrated.
05:04Now he is because no one remembers who he was, and that's the problem.
05:06We're all too, I'm too old and everybody else is too young.
05:09My son has a poster on his bedroom wall of Juan Marischal
05:13at the peak of his high-kick wind-up,
05:15and he knows that it's a wonderful baseball game.
05:17When he played, it was Cepeda, McCovey, and Willie Mays.
05:25It was all about the San Francisco Giants' offense,
05:28not their pitching staff.
05:31...poster, but he didn't know it was Marischal,
05:33so I told him, I bet if it was Koufax, he'd have known.
05:4017, 17, 17.
05:46Evander Holyfield is reckoned to be one of the great fighters of his time.
05:50The problem is he kept going after his time was over.
05:53An excellent round for Holyfield.
05:5717.
05:59Evander Holyfield was once thought to be too small to be a heavyweight.
06:03He responded by becoming the first to hold that title four times,
06:07in the process confirming his nickname, The Real Deal.
06:11Always fit, you could strike a match on his chiseled physique.
06:15He beat such marquee names as Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, and Riddick Bowe,
06:21winning 36 of his first 39 fights before hanging on too long.
06:27It's a shame that a guy who was such a great champion for so long
06:31will probably be known as the guy who got his ear bitten off by Mike Tyson.
06:35His signature moments are that he beat Mike Tyson,
06:38when we thought Mike Tyson was invincible.
06:41Turns out we were wrong about Tyson.
06:43So what does that tell us about Evander Holyfield?
06:46Evander Holyfield was just a good boxer.
06:49That was not enough to sustain the heavyweight division.
06:52I think he was a good fighter, but he had no charisma.
06:55You can't be like that if you're going to be in the popular guy.
06:58As great as he was, he just kept fighting.
07:01Larry Holmes knows about being underrated.
07:04He was fighting, and it was like, enough already.
07:06You were great.
07:11Sixteen.
07:12Sixteen.
07:13Sixteen.
07:16Maureen Conley was somebody that really played and fun to watch,
07:19and she was so consistent.
07:24Moe was a machine out there.
07:28Sixteen.
07:28Sixteen.
07:31She was called Little Moe, but her talent was taller than a Redwood.
07:35With a winsome smile, Maureen Conley fired baseline bullets and flitted about the court like a butterfly.
07:41In 1953, at the age of 18, she became the first woman to win the Grand Slam.
07:46But a year later, a horseback riding accident cut her career short.
07:53I never saw her get nervous.
07:55Never saw her get the elbow, as we say in tennis.
07:58She just hit the ball harder and harder all the time, whether she was winning or losing,
08:01and she just got better and better as she went along.
08:03Look at her shaking her fist.
08:06Absolutely, I will do it.
08:09Maureen Conley was a huge influence upon me.
08:12She was the first woman to win a Grand Slam.
08:16And the other girls, and ran them around more than they ran her around,
08:20so she could dominate the play.
08:22And a squeak of delight, and she's done it.
08:25Maureen Conley entered nine Grand Slam tournaments in her life and won them all.
08:29Nobody will ever do that again.
08:34Fifteen.
08:35Fifteen.
08:35Fifteen.
08:38Lefty Grove was as dominant in 1929-31 as Sandy Koufax was from 1962 to 1966.
08:46I believe that Lefty Grove was the greatest pitcher of all time.
08:49Fifteen.
08:51He was hawk-like, lean and lanky,
08:55and if you managed to squeeze scores out of Lefty Grove, you'd accomplish something.
08:59He led the American League in ERA an unprecedented nine times,
09:03and for the Philadelphia A's, won 20 or more seven straight years.
09:07In 1941, after 17 seasons, he retired with 300 wins and, in the lively ball era, an ERA of 3
09:15.06.
09:18I never saw the man pitch.
09:20He had 300 wins.
09:21You can make a case he's one of the top five pitchers in the history of baseball.
09:26Take a look at how much better he is than the rest of the league
09:30and the next best pitcher in any given year, and you just have to marvel.
09:34Could Lefty Grove have struck out the side against the 1996 Yankees?
09:38Who knows?
09:39Of course, he had a 102-mile-an-hour fastball,
09:41so I imagine he'd have done very well against any team.
09:48Forty.
09:49Forty.
09:52Harry Carson was a great player who had the misfortune.
09:55Super underage because Lawrence Taylor.
10:00You know, sometimes in sports, it's like real estate.
10:03Location, location, location.
10:05Standing next to Lawrence Taylor is a very bad location.
10:10From his middle and backer position,
10:12Harry Carson did all the down and dirty work for the Giants
10:15for 13 star-spangled seasons.
10:18Collapsing blockers, flushing quarterbacks, and smothering running backs.
10:23Despite his selfless work, he was rebuffed 12 times for the Pro Football Hall of Fame
10:28before finally being elected in 2006.
10:32He was the top five or six guys I've ever coached.
10:35He was a nine-time Pro Bowler.
10:37You don't have too many of those.
10:38Have you ever seen these old westerns where one guy holds down the fort
10:42until he gets help?
10:43That was Harry Carson.
10:45The heart of that defense was Harry Carson.
10:47He never made a mistake.
10:48He never found himself out of position.
10:50He'd end up with 12 or 13 tackles,
10:52and at the end of the year, he'd be playing in Hawaii.
10:54He's the reason why Lawrence Taylor got all those sacks and all those tackles.
10:57Because he was the one taking on all the blocks.
11:00Lawrence made headlines on the football field,
11:02off the football field, during his career, after his career.
11:04Oh, by the way, Harry Carson was good, too.
11:07Big, strong, physical middle linebacker.
11:09Playing in the media capital of the world.
11:11No, class act, but yet he seems to be on the outside looking in.
11:1913, 13.
11:23One of the greatest Packers,
11:25if not one of the greatest football players of all time,
11:27was Don Hudson, and he's a guy that gets overlooked.
11:30He was as dominant for his time as anybody in the history of the National Football League.
11:3413, 13.
11:38Don Hudson was to pass receiving what the Red Baron was to aviation.
11:42He ran precise patterns with a long, loping stride,
11:46and is credited with pioneering the art of getting open.
11:50Every fifth catch resulted in a touchdown for the Packers.
11:53When he retired in 1945 with 99 TD grabs,
11:57his closest pursuer was 62 behind that total.
12:02You can make an educated argument that Don Hudson is the greatest offensive player,
12:07or I would say the greatest player ever to play.
12:09To me, this guy set standards that I was trying to go after,
12:13and I could never surpass those standards.
12:1699 touchdowns.
12:1799 touchdowns.
12:18He was holding a career record for about 50 years.
12:25I was on 480-some-odd catches.
12:29That is phenomenal.
12:31Don had the speed.
12:33In fact, there's some records at Green Bay today still that Don Hudson holds.
12:36He's underrated in the history of the NFL
12:40because he literally invented the idea of running a pass pattern
12:44the same way every time.
12:46When you see great wide receivers,
12:49the most basic thing they do started with Don Hudson.
12:5512.
12:5612.
12:57Martin runs left side.
12:59He's at the 5,
12:59and he's into the end zone for the touchdown.
13:0214,000 yards.
13:04Nobody knows who he is.
13:06Is the dictionary definition of underappreciated.
13:09You look up underappreciated in the dictionary,
13:12there should be a picture of Curtis Martin.
13:1412.
13:16In each of his first 10 seasons,
13:18Curtis Martin amassed more than 1,000 yards rushing,
13:21a feat equaled only by Barry Sanders.
13:25First as a Patriot, then as a Jet,
13:27Martin has inched up on the list of total rushing yards,
13:30along the way becoming only the fourth running back ever with 14,000.
13:35He's a strong runner.
13:37Don't get too much credit for being a strong runner.
13:39I hit him a couple of times, and, you know, he keeps his legs moving,
13:43and you've got to make sure you hold on, because he'll take you for a ride.
13:45What's up?
13:46Short range to the flat with Curtis Martin.
13:50Breaking tackles for the first down.
13:53He's not a guy that brings a lot of attention to himself,
13:56but the one thing you know with Curtis Martin,
13:58he was always consistent, consistently good.
14:01Curtis Martin is the emblem of consistency.
14:04Here's a guy who plays in New York,
14:06the media capital of the world,
14:07one of the best running backs of all time,
14:09and how could you possibly be in New York and be underrated if a Curtis Martin is?
14:13He wasn't the guy that played to the media.
14:15He always played hurt.
14:17He always rushed for 1,000 yards.
14:19He had years where he had double-digit touchdowns,
14:21and that doesn't sell even in New York.
14:24Guys like that never get the recognition they deserve,
14:26and he's not the only one.
14:28He's the poster child, maybe, for that group.
14:30This guy was top shelf, no dust.
14:32The day he arrived in the NFL, I think, way underrated.
14:4011-11.
14:4111-11.
14:45Jack Morris was one of the biggest big-game pitchers
14:49in the history of Major League Baseball.
14:51And nobody knows about it.
14:5311-11.
14:56Jack Morris was a snarling, hyper-competitive pitcher
14:59who thrived on center stage.
15:01He helped three teams win the World Series,
15:03the 1984 Tigers,
15:05the 1991 Twins,
15:07and the 1992 Blue Jays.
15:09In 18 big-league seasons
15:11and nearly 4,000 innings,
15:13he won 254 games,
15:15compiling an ERA of 3.9.
15:17His 10-inning shutout of Atlanta
15:19in Game 7 of the 91 World Series,
15:22Sparkle Stills.
15:25I'll tell you why he's underrated.
15:27He wears the number 47.
15:30Nobody knows what that number is.
15:33It's not a good-looking number.
15:37Jack Morris was a really good pitcher
15:39who pitched one of the great World Series games of all time.
15:42My face can't die.
15:47A World Series.
15:49I'm not sure how much more anyone can ask of you.
15:52Game 7, on the line,
15:5410 innings,
15:55gave them nothing.
15:57Jack Morris was the ace
15:59for three different World Series teams.
16:02Jack Morris is underrated.
16:04He gets really dissed in the Hall of Fame balloting
16:06when you can definitely make the case
16:07he belongs in Cooperstown.
16:09Got him swinging,
16:10and he has his no-hitter.
16:12Morris pitch.
16:13He used to get guys food down from the other dugout.
16:15Why?
16:15Because he was competing so hard.
16:17He's one of those guys looking at the dugout,
16:18and I mean,
16:19he's out there to beat you.
16:20I think if the one word described him,
16:23he'd make a competitor.
16:24Some guys are magical.
16:26Jack Morris was magical.
16:38If I had the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
16:41golden ticket,
16:43you know,
16:43the free admission,
16:44and I could give that to any baseball player
16:46into the Hall of Fame,
16:47I would give it to Jim Russell.
16:48And there's a line shot,
16:49left field,
16:50looking up.
16:50He's in now.
16:52This ball is going to home run.
16:5610.
16:58Jim Rice was both fearsome and feared
17:00in a 16-year career spent entirely with Boston.
17:03In half those seasons,
17:04he was an all-star
17:05and three times led the league in home runs.
17:07In 1978,
17:09he was the MVP,
17:10hitting .315,
17:11cracking 46 home runs,
17:13and driving in 139.
17:15His numbers are on the razor's edge,
17:17but he remains standing on the other side of the door
17:19into Cooperstown.
17:21Jim Rice hit
17:22the most prodigious home runs you ever saw.
17:26Here's a guy
17:27that is on the cusp.
17:29298 batting out,
17:30not quite 300.
17:32382 home runs,
17:33not quite 400.
17:34He was a good athlete,
17:35good run.
17:37I think one year he hit 16 triples.
17:39Rice is on his way to third,
17:41and Strawberry's throw,
17:44not in time.
17:46Jim Rice was the single most frightening hitter
17:50I think I ever saw as a fan.
17:52And look at the Red Sox
17:53greet Jimmy Rice at home.
17:55Are you serious?
17:58Jim Rice, I think,
17:59is a very underrated player
18:01when you look at him history-wise.
18:02How can you keep this guy
18:03out of the Hall of Fame?
18:04His numbers are there.
18:06You know why?
18:06Because a couple of guys
18:07got snubbed for an interview
18:08back in the day.
18:09He was a surly guy at times.
18:11He was moody,
18:11and those guys keep him
18:12out of the Hall of Fame,
18:13and it's totally unfair.
18:14If you go by and look at that time
18:16compared to the players
18:18that are in the Hall of Fame,
18:19I should be in the Hall of Fame.
18:21Jim Rice was playing at a time
18:22when 38 home runs
18:23and 109 RBIs
18:24was a huge year.
18:26The fact that they aren't anymore
18:27should not be held against him.
18:29Jim Rice is underappreciated.
18:40Homes dominating
18:41throughout the early going.
18:42The Easton Assassin.
18:44Yes.
18:44He was a great fighter.
18:45He is underrated.
18:47And under...
18:47He's not high enough.
18:48...to appreciate it.
18:49This may convince
18:51a lot of skeptics
18:52about Larry Holmes.
18:53Nine.
18:56In 1978,
18:57Larry Holmes pounded out
18:59a 15-round decision
19:00over Ken Norton
19:00for the heavyweight championship.
19:02He held the title
19:03until 1985,
19:05along the way
19:06winning his first
19:0648 professional fights.
19:08He held the distinction
19:09of all-time great heavyweights
19:11who fought
19:13until they were 35 or older
19:16and never lost
19:17until they were 35.
19:20Nobody beat Holmes
19:21until he was old.
19:23People beat Ali,
19:24people beat
19:24Lewis,
19:26Frazier,
19:27Tyson,
19:29Holyfield,
19:29Jack Johnson.
19:31Nobody beat Holmes
19:32until he was old.
19:35It's one short
19:37of Rocky Marciano's
19:38heavyweight record
19:39for a career start.
19:40Holmes seemed always
19:42linked to Muhammad Ali
19:43as a sparring partner,
19:45conqueror,
19:45and unshakable shadow.
19:48I'm glad Larry Holmes
19:49made the list.
19:50He was a good boxer,
19:52had enough power,
19:54had great ring smarts.
19:57And he has been hurt.
19:58A white wobbles.
20:00Larry Holmes
20:01had the terrible misfortune
20:03of following Muhammad Ali.
20:05No one was going
20:06to follow Muhammad Ali.
20:07It's like whoever
20:08came on the Ed Sullivan Show
20:09after the Beatles.
20:10You don't remember,
20:11there's no reason
20:12to remember.
20:13It was the Beatles.
20:14I'm sorry that
20:15I can't be a Muhammad Ali.
20:16I was born to be
20:19myself,
20:20Larry Holmes.
20:23I don't think people realize
20:25that this guy
20:26was the longest reigning
20:27heavyweight champion ever.
20:29He is just killing him.
20:30You got to be around
20:32for more than
20:32a ham sandwich
20:33and a cup of tea.
20:35And he was around
20:35for more than
20:36a ham sandwich
20:37and a cup of tea.
20:38Hold that right.
20:39Hurt Ali.
20:40Tough act to follow
20:41with Muhammad Ali,
20:43but he handled it
20:44pretty well.
20:44And he's a guy
20:45that really is
20:46somebody to be appreciated.
20:53He was the longest reigning
20:55heavyweight champion
20:56of the 20th century
20:57that wasn't Joe Louis.
21:03Talk about being underrated.
21:05Andre Dawson is right there
21:06at the top
21:06or the bottom of the list.
21:09There's a lie.
21:11Way back.
21:11The Cubs win.
21:13The Cubs win.
21:14The Cubs win.
21:16Andre Dawson.
21:18The Cubs win,
21:20but that's something
21:21they did
21:22not too often.
21:24No wonder he's underrated.
21:26Andre Dawson amassed
21:27almost 2,800 hits
21:29and nearly 1,600 RBI
21:31and won eight gold gloves.
21:33And in 1987
21:34with the Cubs,
21:35he became the first player
21:36to be voted MVP
21:37on a last place team
21:39when he led the National League
21:41with 49 homers
21:42and 137 RBI.
21:44Despite such credentials,
21:46Andre isn't
21:47in the Hall of Fame.
21:50Going back.
21:51Oh, what a catch.
21:53What a catch
21:55by Andre Dawson.
21:56You know,
21:56one of the biggest mysteries
21:57known to mankind
21:58is why in the world
22:00is Andre Dawson
22:01not in the Baseball Hall of Fame?
22:03It's just incredible.
22:05There are not a lot of...
22:06When you're on a short...
22:07He was one of two players
22:10when he retired
22:10with 400 homers,
22:14300 stolen bases.
22:15The other was
22:16Willie Mays.
22:19Can't get into the Hall of Fame
22:20and you're in a class
22:21with Willie Mays.
22:30I think the thing
22:32that made him so good
22:34was that he knew
22:36the strike zone.
22:37To sustain a career,
22:39to be able to go out there
22:40and perform every day,
22:41I never took that for granted.
22:43Here's a guy
22:43that won a Most Valuable Player Award
22:46for a last place team.
22:47This guy was great.
22:517-7-7-7.
22:54There's a drive
22:55into left center field.
22:56That ball is gonna be
22:58out of here.
22:59It's gone.
23:01It's 7-15.
23:02Cameron Hank.
23:04Good pick.
23:05There's a new
23:06home run champion
23:07of all time
23:09and a pen...
23:10It's amazing.
23:11He isn't on the tip
23:11of our tongues
23:12every time we talk about
23:13the greatest player
23:14in the history of Bay...
23:157.
23:18No major leaguer
23:19has hit as many
23:20home runs as he,
23:21755.
23:22No one has driven
23:23in as many,
23:242,200.
23:25That didn't age well
23:26because mine broke it
23:28like the next year.
23:29In 97,
23:30Hank Aaron made
23:31the All-Star team
23:3221 straight times.
23:34For all his power,
23:36he still hit 305.
23:37For 13 consecutive years,
23:39he had at least
23:40100 runs batted in.
23:42The eternal mystery
23:43is how such a Titan
23:44could be underrated.
23:47If anybody can hit
23:49755 home runs
23:50and be underrated,
23:51it's Hank Aaron.
23:52I would say
23:53he was like
23:53the lost sheep
23:55of the great ones.
23:57He never got
23:58that great of attention.
24:00Aaron just came across
24:01as a passive,
24:02mechanical kind of player.
24:03Never got his due.
24:04I didn't do things
24:05with a flare
24:06by no scratch
24:07of the imagination.
24:08I just didn't feel
24:09like I needed to run
24:10after a ball
24:11if it was 20 rolls
24:12in the stands.
24:13You know what?
24:14Kicking up all that fuss.
24:15What you saw me do
24:16on Monday
24:17is what you probably
24:18would have come
24:18to ballpark
24:19on Tuesday
24:20and Wednesday
24:20in Sydney, dude.
24:21A swing and a drive
24:22back into center field.
24:23It's a home run!
24:25The Braves are the champions!
24:26He never hit 50 homers.
24:28He played in two
24:30bottom five markets
24:31in Milwaukee and Atlanta.
24:35And that'll get you
24:36underrated.
24:37How many people
24:37do you think know
24:38he still holds the record
24:39for total bases
24:41or RBIs?
24:45Third-o-time hits.
24:50I admire Hank Aaron.
24:51We know the situation.
24:53We can understand
24:54what he's gone through.
24:55Do we appreciate
24:55what he stood for
24:57and what he has given us?
24:59Oh, yes.
25:00I think Hank Aaron's
25:01always going to be
25:02underrated to an extent
25:03because of the person
25:03he passed on the
25:04home run list.
25:05Take a look at his
25:05other stats.
25:06The 3,000 hits,
25:07the RBIs.
25:08It all goes to the
25:09home runs.
25:09Total bases.
25:10He did it all.
25:11He was the
25:11complete player
25:12and nobody
25:13ever gives him credit.
25:20Six.
25:21Six.
25:21Six.
25:22Girvin,
25:23working against
25:24Magic Johnson.
25:25Smacks it in.
25:26George Girvin,
25:27he goes out
25:28and he scores
25:2840 points
25:29and you never
25:30see him sweat.
25:31Six.
25:32And he threw
25:33that off
25:33the top of the
25:34glitz.
25:36Six.
25:37George Girvin
25:38was Spider-Man
25:39in sneakers.
25:40He'd materialize
25:41out of thin air,
25:42float to the basket
25:43and deposit
25:43in a finger roll.
25:45He was elected
25:46to the Hall of Fame
25:46and named one of
25:47the NBA's 50 best players.
25:49During his 14-year career
25:51in the ABA
25:51and the NBA,
25:53he averaged 26 points
25:54a game
25:55and won four scoring titles.
25:57Only Wilt Chamberlain
25:58and Michael Jordan
25:59had more.
26:01I always liked
26:03George Girvin
26:03because he was cool.
26:05He was...
26:05The Iceman,
26:06he was cold.
26:08Cool in the NBA
26:09before there was cool.
26:11George Girvin,
26:11the Iceman,
26:12was one of those
26:12little viruses
26:13that got into the NBA
26:14from the ABA
26:15and added a lot
26:16of showmanship
26:17that later came to fruition
26:18in the 80s.
26:19Plus, George Girvin
26:20could score on anyone.
26:24I had my best
26:25defensive game
26:27of my life
26:28against Ice Girvin.
26:30Effort-wise,
26:30I got through
26:31every pick.
26:32I had a hand
26:32in every face.
26:33Still got 51 points.
26:34When you see
26:35Kobe Bryant
26:36score 81 points
26:37in a game,
26:37go back and look
26:38at Girvin's numbers.
26:39It's not like
26:39he was shot-chucking
26:40and doing that.
26:42He was efficient.
26:43He scored 50.
26:44He averaged 51
26:46percent from the field.
26:49Probably underrated
26:50in the sense of
26:50when we think
26:51great scores
26:51in the NBA history,
26:52he doesn't immediately
26:53come to mind.
26:54You talking about
26:55a guy who can
26:56make things happen,
26:57all-star,
26:58this guy is definitely
26:59underrated
27:00because you know what?
27:00He was so sweet
27:02going to the glass.
27:06Five, five, five.
27:08Freezes Jordan,
27:09spins inside,
27:09reverses,
27:10hits it off
27:11the high glass.
27:12Two dozen for Joe D.
27:14We're still in the first half.
27:16Joe Dumars,
27:16in many respects,
27:17is perhaps the most
27:18overlooked of the bad boys
27:19because maybe he was
27:20one of the good boys,
27:22one of the very few
27:22good boys,
27:23maybe the only good boy.
27:24Joe Dumars,
27:25perhaps the most
27:26underrated player
27:27in the league.
27:30Defending you,
27:31he was harder to shake
27:32than Velcro.
27:33With the ball,
27:34he could score
27:35more than 16,000 points
27:36or dish
27:37more than 4,600 assists.
27:40Joe Dumars played
27:41his entire 14-year career
27:42with Detroit,
27:43winning back-to-back titles
27:44as a member of the infamous
27:45bad boys in 1989 and 1990.
27:48And then he transitioned
27:50smoothly into the front office,
27:52producing another
27:53Pistons championship
27:54in 2004
27:55while president
27:55of basketball operations.
27:58Everyone talks about
27:59the identity
27:59as the bad boys,
28:01but the baddest boys
28:02is probably their backcourt.
28:03The problem Joe Dumars
28:05had is he is cursed
28:07by the fact that
28:08he wasn't even the best guy
28:09in his own backcourt.
28:11Joe Dumars won
28:12an NBA Finals MVP.
28:14If you ask Michael Jordan
28:15who's the best defender,
28:16whoever guarded him,
28:17it's Joe Dumars.
28:18I covered Michael Jordan
28:19for years,
28:20and I can tell you
28:21nobody gave Michael Jordan
28:23fits like Joe Dumars.
28:26Jordan,
28:27knocked away by Dumars.
28:29Great defense by Joe.
28:31Joe Dumars just did
28:33everything right.
28:34Everything you would want
28:35a basketball player to do
28:36on the court,
28:37off the court,
28:38and as an executive,
28:39he hasn't done too bad either.
28:40He's less underrated now
28:42because of the credit
28:43he gets in management
28:44with the Pistons.
28:46Joe Dumars has become
28:47the ultimate GM
28:48in the NBA.
28:50He's one of the most
28:50successful basketball people
28:52of his generation.
29:00Robinson on the right end better.
29:03Robinson.
29:07586 home runs.
29:11League MVP in both leagues.
29:14I mean,
29:15didn't even make the
29:16old century team.
29:18If he played somewhere else
29:19besides Baltimore,
29:20he would have.
29:25Frank Robinson
29:26definitely falls into
29:28the underrated category.
29:30My goodness,
29:31what a blast.
29:32Nobody has been
29:33through the mill
29:34as long and as well
29:36as Frank Robinson has.
29:404-4.
29:43Frank Robinson's initials
29:44might as well
29:45have been MVP.
29:46He earned that honor
29:47in both leagues,
29:481961 with the Reds,
29:491966 with the Orioles,
29:51and also in an
29:52all-star game
29:53and in a World Series.
29:54In 1966,
29:56he also won
29:56the Triple Crown.
29:5749 homers,
29:59122 RBI,
30:00and a 316 average.
30:03Triple Crown winner.
30:05Nobody does that
30:06these days.
30:07That's leading the league
30:08in average home runs,
30:09RBIs.
30:10Frank Robinson
30:11is the most
30:12underrated player
30:13in the history
30:14of Major League Baseball.
30:15The only guy ever
30:16to win
30:17Most Valuable Player
30:18Awards in both leagues.
30:19Played hard.
30:20For the longest time,
30:22he was fourth
30:22on the all-time
30:23home run list.
30:24Nobody knew it.
30:25I think with
30:25today's medium,
30:26he'd be a mega star.
30:28It would be Jordan Ness
30:29if a guy was that good
30:30and dominated the sport
30:31as long as he did.
30:33Line drive to left field.
30:35Will Vance.
30:36It is gone!
30:39He didn't make
30:40that all-century team,
30:41which was preposterous.
30:42They had Pete Rose
30:43on there as an outfielder.
30:44Ridiculous situation.
30:46It makes me laugh.
30:48When I saw those guys
30:49picking out
30:50the all-century team,
30:52and I didn't see
30:53Frank Robinson's name
30:54in that thing,
30:55and I said,
30:55what a joke this is.
30:57I know I'm not
30:58real popular
30:59maybe out there
31:00as some of the other guys
31:01are among the fans,
31:03and it does bother me.
31:06I would have loved
31:07to have made
31:07the all-century team.
31:14Three.
31:15Three.
31:16Three.
31:17Bob Pettit is underrated
31:19because that entire
31:21entire generation
31:22of NBA players
31:24is underrated.
31:25Largely because
31:25the NBA reinvented itself
31:27in the 1980s
31:27and almost anything
31:28that happened
31:28before Magic Johnson
31:29and Larry Burton
31:30has been shunted aside
31:31like the Dark Ages
31:32or something.
31:34Three.
31:37Long before
31:38there was a Carl Malone,
31:39there was Bob Pettit.
31:40In his worst season,
31:42he still averaged
31:43a double-double.
31:44For his 11-year career
31:45with the Milwaukee
31:46and St. Louis Hawks,
31:47he produced 26 points
31:49and 16 boards a game.
31:51Pettit had a ferocious
31:52hunger for the ball.
31:53He remains third
31:54behind Wilt Chamberlain
31:55and Bill Russell
31:56in career rebounding average.
31:58In 1958,
32:00he led...
32:00He was 26-16
32:01and let's get to
32:031958 later.
32:13Bill Russell was 20-1
32:15his first 10 years
32:16in the league
32:17in the playoffs.
32:19Guess who beat him?
32:20Bob Pettit.
32:23Led the Hawks
32:24past Russell Celtics,
32:25for the NBA title.
32:28He was just smooth
32:29and had a great baseline shot.
32:31Pettit was the real deal.
32:336'9", good build,
32:35fluid, fabulous power forward
32:37who even today
32:38would still be an all-star.
32:39Bob Pettit still to this day
32:41is my prototypical power forward.
32:47No one with his size
32:48at that time
32:49could do what Bob Pettit did
32:50in the 50s.
32:51Incredibly out there rated.
32:52He kept the ball high,
32:53which was smart
32:54because he was tall.
32:55He never brought the ball down here.
32:56Like a big man,
32:57I don't want to put it
32:57and bring it down low.
32:59He kept it up high
33:00and dominated quite well.
33:02I never walked out on the court
33:04that I wasn't ready to play
33:05to the best of my ability.
33:06And that doesn't mean
33:07I played well every night,
33:08but I was...
33:09I had a desire to excel.
33:11I was always striving to be better.
33:14Never seeks too much attention
33:16and is probably okay
33:19with the fact that he's underrated.
33:30If we had the Super Bowl
33:32and Otto Graham's day,
33:34when we do these lists
33:35of who's the greatest quarterback
33:36in Super Bowl history,
33:37it'd be Otto Graham.
33:38That's the list.
33:39That's it.
33:41Otto Graham threw perfect spirals.
33:43He was, in fact,
33:44just about perfect, period.
33:45From 1946 through 1955,
33:48he threw 174 touchdown passes
33:51in leading Cleveland
33:52to 105 regular season wins
33:54with only 17 losses
33:56in the All-America Football Conference
33:58and the NFL.
33:59Graham had the Browns
34:00in the championship game every year
34:02and they won seven times.
34:04To the delight of those
34:05with broken noses,
34:06he was the first player
34:07to wear a face mask.
34:09Because...
34:10I'm like 86% of his games
34:12or something like that.
34:13Pro football was,
34:14in its infancy
34:15as far as its popularity
34:16and because television
34:18wasn't then what it is today,
34:21Otto Graham is generally forgotten.
34:23Otto Graham was a player
34:24that would fit now
34:25because, you know,
34:25you watch him back in the pocket,
34:27see all the athletic things
34:28that he'd do
34:28and, of course,
34:29he had the great arm.
34:30Otto Graham won the championship
34:31almost every single year
34:33he played.
34:34Otto Graham may be
34:35the most underrated quarterback
34:36in the history
34:37of the National Football League.
34:41We felt we could beat anybody
34:42and we were confident.
34:44if we could do this,
34:45of course,
34:46it didn't always happen,
34:47but playing 10 straight
34:48championship games in a row
34:49is a pretty good record,
34:50though.
34:51All the teams
34:51have become close to that.
34:53It's almost like
34:54nothing existed
34:55prior to the Super Bowls.
34:56There was a National Football League
34:58before the Super Bowls.
35:00You ask people
35:00who's the greatest player
35:01of all time
35:02and they will always tell you,
35:03well, it's Joe Montana
35:04because he won
35:05all those Super Bowls.
35:06Otto Graham won more championships
35:07than Joe Montana.
35:08To me,
35:10it goes Otto Graham,
35:11Unitas,
35:12Montana,
35:13maybe now Brady.
35:18I mean,
35:19he was 47-5-3
35:21in the AFC
35:22and had an undefeated season.
35:25Nobody talks about
35:26undefeated seasons
35:27when it's Otto Graham.
35:31What?
35:32What?
35:33What?
35:35Sullivan's first pitch to Stan
35:36has swung on
35:37as a drive
35:37back into right field.
35:39A man,
35:40Musial.
35:41Long one,
35:42the ball game is over.
35:43It just drives me crazy
35:44the way Musial
35:45has disappeared
35:46from baseball's consciousness.
35:47It's a crime
35:48because Musial
35:49was an absolutely
35:50great baseball player.
35:52Preacher Rose
35:53said the way
35:53to deal with Stan Musial
35:54was to throw four balls
35:55then try to pick him off.
35:57Before there was demand,
35:58there was Stan the man
36:00with the peek-a-boo stance
36:01and the magic wand bat.
36:03The St. Louis Cardinals
36:04icon retired
36:05with a .331 average,
36:07475 homers
36:08and more than 1,900 RBI,
36:10plus seven batting titles
36:12and three World Series rings.
36:13Only Pete Rose
36:15had more hits
36:15in the National League.
36:17Musial also led the majors
36:18in humility.
36:20You've got our official
36:21of Major League records
36:22behind us, Stan.
36:23How do you feel about
36:24this season
36:24as far as you're concerned?
36:26Well, I think I'm
36:27right in my prime
36:28right now
36:28and I'm looking
36:30forward to a fine year.
36:32He is great
36:33for this category
36:33because he's way underrated.
36:35You take power,
36:37average,
36:37lack of strikeouts,
36:40you know,
36:40you can make a case
36:41and put him
36:43easily in the top
36:43ten hitters of all time.
36:45The numbers are overwhelming.
36:46Stan Musial
36:47is ridiculously underrated
36:48and I have absolutely
36:49no idea why.
36:50For some reason
36:51when people talk about
36:52the greatest players
36:53in baseball history,
36:54his name does not come up.
36:55And that's an outrage
36:56because it certainly
36:57deserves to be
36:58in the discussion.
36:59There it is!
37:01Into left field!
37:02Hit number 3,000!
37:04A run is scored!
37:05Musial ran first!
37:07On his way to second
37:08with a double!
37:10Holy cow, he came through!
37:12St. Louis was,
37:13at the time,
37:14the west coast.
37:14I mean,
37:15it was a coast
37:15that was on a river.
37:16Yeah, it was
37:18pretty much
37:21Siberia or something.
37:23...south coasts,
37:24but it was as far west
37:25as you could get.
37:26Stan Musial
37:26was geographically challenged.
37:28Had he played his career
37:30in New York,
37:30we would have called him
37:31Lou Gehrig.
37:32He wasn't a great copy,
37:34didn't have enemies,
37:35didn't have tantrums.
37:37Consequently,
37:38the press ignored him
37:39more than they did
37:41the other superstars
37:42of that era.
37:43There she goes again!
37:45It might be out of here!
37:46And there's
37:47another home run!
37:49He's had a world-famous
37:50nickname,
37:51Stan the Man Musial,
37:51which was given to him
37:52by opposing fans.
37:54He was given to him
37:55by the fans of Brooklyn.
37:56Here's a man
37:56with an unorthodox
37:58batting stance
37:59that put up serious numbers
38:01year in and year out.
38:02Even with the numbers,
38:03he was unique.
38:053,630 hits.
38:07The thing I enjoyed most
38:08was just putting on
38:09the uniform,
38:10being a big league ball player,
38:11and hitting the 300
38:13a lot of years.
38:15He is one of God's
38:16chosen people,
38:17and his whole life's
38:18been that way.
38:19The legend's real.
38:21It's true.
38:21All of it.
38:233,630 hits.
38:253,630 hits.
38:273,630 hits.
38:275,630 hits.
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