00:07Mr. Barnier, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews.
00:11You were one of the key figures in the Brexit process.
00:15Ten years on, what is the assessment that you make?
00:18Ten years after, the Brexit remains for both sides a lose-lose game.
00:26So, we have to draw the lessons about the reasons of the Brexit,
00:33why 52% of the British people vote against Europe.
00:39Brussels was presented by everybody, the nationalist side, Farage, Johnson,
00:45as a kind of scapegoat. Everybody knows that isn't the case.
00:50A part of the answers, a part of the solutions are in Brussels, but just a part.
00:56A large part of the other answers are in London or in the regions.
01:00But nevertheless, the point is that the Brexit is done.
01:07For us, it is on the book.
01:09And now, we have to work in the best way as possible.
01:16The FTA, the trade agreement, is clearly done.
01:22And there will be no cherry-picking in the future.
01:25But we have lots of things to do with the UK for the stability,
01:30the security and the defence of Europe, in my view.
01:32And when I listen to your words, the impression that I get is that you do believe this process is
01:38over.
01:38The conversation of returning to the EU, is that something that you'd say it's a fantasy?
01:44No, I don't think so.
01:46I think the Brexit decided by a sovereign vote ten years ago is done.
01:54But the future is open and the door is open.
01:58The door is open?
01:59Yes, the door is open.
02:00And the UK government, the UK authorities, the UK party, the public parties know clearly what are the conditions.
02:10And what are the conditions?
02:11Because it seems to me, in the UK, those who have tried to implement Brexit,
02:16they hit a wall with the economy, because it doesn't really work.
02:19And those who tried to reset, they struggled to explain how it would work.
02:23Once again, you can have the cake and eat it.
02:25You cannot dance in two weddings at the same time.
02:29So, the conditions are very clear.
02:32If you want to join the single market, being outside of the Union.
02:38Look at the Norway case.
02:39Norway is inside the single market.
02:43Their choice, the right choice in my view, for the mutual benefit.
02:47But they didn't want to be inside the Union, the European Union.
02:54So, it's perfectly possible.
02:55But the conditions are for any country joining the single market, for instance,
03:01to respect the four freedoms and the indivisibility of the four freedoms.
03:05And to make those decisions, the next UK Prime Minister will have to make very bold choices.
03:13Do you see the political courage to openly say to the public opinion in the UK,
03:18we are going to start a process that maybe brings that back into the Union?
03:23It will be a sovereign choice of the UK to engage in new negotiations.
03:28But the conditions are clear.
03:30I think it will take time.
03:32So, in the meantime, we have a lot to do together.
03:38For instance, for defence, for security, for cooperation between the services,
03:44even for investment in artificial intelligence or new technologies.
03:51I think we have lots of things to do together.
03:56And I have even proposed to facilitate this cooperation between the UK and the EU
04:03to create a new body, which could be a kind of a European Council for Defence and Security,
04:10on the side of the current institutions, open to some countries.
04:15We are not longer or no longer or not yet in the EU, for instance.
04:20Obviously, UK, but also Norway or Ukraine.
04:24When you see that Nigel Farage, and you know him from Brussels,
04:29he really orchestrated this idea of Brexit liberation for the UK.
04:33Now he is polling very strongly in the United Kingdom,
04:37even though you could argue he was not able to deliver on those promises.
04:40Is that something that shocks you?
04:43No, it is the proof that in any case, in each and every country, even in France,
04:49we have to address the problems of the people.
04:53And the problems are very serious.
04:58There is even a kind of anger in many countries, in many regions, about unemployment,
05:04about public services for health, for transportation, about uncontrolled migration.
05:11We need to address this problem at the right level.
05:14This is the difference with Mr Farage.
05:16During the campaign, Farage said every day, every night,
05:20everything is the responsibility in Brussels as a scapegoat.
05:23It was not true.
05:24And we will get the money.
05:25But now he has no longer the scapegoat to use, but he can use the problems of the people.
05:31So we have to find the right answer at the right level, national level, local and regional level.
05:36If there was a sort of re-engagement, what should the head of the commission do?
05:41How do you go about a re-engagement?
05:43If this idea of the UK may be one day rejoining in some capacity?
05:47Once again, it will be the choice of the UK to open this discussion.
05:51And we are ready.
05:53The door is open.
05:55And at that time, there will be a new negotiation.
05:57I wonder, however, the return of the UK, assuming that is the choice of the UK people,
06:03to say, we tried, didn't work, we want to be back in the union.
06:06Is that a process that goes bit by bit, the way that a country like Ukraine would have to?
06:11Or do you see a big ban saying, come on, they were in the union, we can't accelerate?
06:15The answer is in the hands of the UK.
06:19If from now to this time where a new negotiation will start, the UK creates a huge divergence
06:30from the standards, the norms for food, for security, we will have a problem.
06:39It will take time, much more time.
06:41The point is, if there is no divergence, no crucial divergence, it will be very rapid.
06:47And is this conversation…
06:48We can't compare, we can't confuse the very long process in some time with new countries
06:55we want to access to the EU and former member states.
06:59And is this conversation happening, would you argue, based on your political instinct,
07:03as a result of Brexit did not really deliver what it promised?
07:07Or is it also the product of Donald Trump, which now means the Europeans have realized
07:13they've got to come together?
07:14But we have to explain that Europe, the UK left 10 years ago, is not the same today.
07:22We have provoked and created a lot of change, in my view, in a good sense, in a good direction.
07:28Because of the Covid crisis, because of the problem created by the uncontrolled migration,
07:38because of the financial crisis 15 years ago, and also because of the incredible war,
07:45the aggression of Russia against Ukraine.
07:50So, each of these crises provoked a good reaction, in my view, of the EU.
07:59Obviously, the fact that the US president is so aggressive against us is an element,
08:09a very important element for us to be sure that we need to do for ourselves
08:14what nobody will come to do in our place.
08:19Because you say the US will no longer come to rescue the Europeans.
08:23Don't confuse and don't confront, if I may say, the current US president of the United States of America.
08:32For the long term, we will remain allies and friends.
08:36You do believe the relationship can go back even after Trump?
08:40I hope so.
08:41But there is a reality after Brexit.
08:42The idea of exiting the European Union no longer became as popular.
08:47We don't hear in France the idea of Brexit.
08:49In Italy, the intellects sort of basically died out.
08:52The populism within the EU talks about changing from within, not leaving.
08:56But the populists are sometimes clever.
08:58And they know that what happened in the world around us, with Trump, with the Chinese,
09:06aggressivity for trade and the aggression of Russia, give the proof to everybody that we need to be together.
09:14We are stronger together to defend our interests, our values and our continent.
09:20So it's clear for everybody.
09:22But I don't think that the populists in France, the nationalists from the far right and the far left, have
09:28changed their mind.
09:30Mr. Le Pen, when the day of the Brexit, the night of the Brexit, said congratulations to the British people.
09:39They have the courage to escape from the European servitude.
09:45So I don't think they changed their mind.
09:47These people from the far right and even the far left want to destroy the EU.
09:54They want to destroy the EU.
09:56They are nationalists.
09:57They are nationalists.
09:58You think even today when we see a younger candidate potentially in Bardella, you think ultimately the foundation has not
10:07changed?
10:08I don't know who will be the candidate.
10:11The problem is the substance of the program, of their ideology.
10:17They want to destroy the EU.
10:18They are anti-European.
10:20You think if there's a way in which they get to government, it would be almost fatal for the European
10:25Union as a construction?
10:26Do you think about that?
10:27Listen to Mr. Bardella.
10:28You just speak about him.
10:30He said a few days ago he want to cut from 50% half the budget, the contribution of France
10:40to the European budget.
10:41That means he want to destroy the EU.
10:44This is clearly the consequences of this decision.
10:48So then going into 2027 and this election, this is a crucial election in this country.
10:53Financial markets are looking at it already.
10:54Not only for France.
10:55This is a systemic country to the EU and a founding member.
11:00How do you see your role in this election?
11:03And again, what you said now is they want to destroy the EU.
11:05That's a big statement.
11:06The goal here in the French National Assembly, where we are today, in the French debate, and as a former
11:12prime minister, is to work for the unity of the center-right.
11:16Because I think that unity supporting one single candidate and acting about one single program is the only way to
11:26avoid the incredible duel in the second term of the presidential election between the two candidates from the nationalist side.
11:35Would you say that's an existential threat to France and therefore by the EU, if that is what it comes
11:41down to?
11:41I think it would be dramatic for France and for Europe.
11:44Do you consider playing an active role yourself on the ground?
11:48I don't want to personalize this debate.
11:50I am playing an active role.
11:52Well, thank you, Michel Barnier.
11:54On that note, thank you so much for joining us.
11:56Thank you, Michel.
11:58Thank you, Michel.
11:59Thank you, Michel.
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