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What does a returning El Nino mean for Malaysians already coping with a changing climate? YUFE’s Raihanah Lukman and Greenpeace Malaysia’s Weng Dun Xin unpack the impacts of hotter and dried conditions, as well as Malaysia's preparedness.
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00:06hello and welcome to it's about youth with me fei kwan el nino has officially begun now
00:13conditions are underway in the tropical pacific with sea surface temperatures rising sharply in
00:19recent months what could that mean for malaysians who are already coping with a changing climate
00:25uh joining me in the studio today to break this down further is rahana luqman she is the project
00:31and grants focal point for youths united for earth or youth as well as wang dunsin better known as
00:37yan campaigner for greenpeace malaysia thank you both of you for joining me today thank you for
00:41having us i mean it's a pleasure to have you here now firstly forecasts are suggesting that el nino
00:48could persist into 2027 well into next year uh yan for young people who are watching this today
00:55what does that actually mean for them in practical terms like could you could you tell us what sort
01:00of changes may they notice in their daily lives perhaps in the next year or two yeah um so to
01:06put
01:06things a little bit more into context we have to understand what exactly is el nino it has been
01:12reportedly um uh mentioned in the news and warned by un agency as well that there is very high likely
01:20chance that el nino is going to come and it has also been dubbed as a godzilla el nino if
01:27you heard
01:27of it and also a super el nino well it sounds super scary um with the mix of climate change
01:34actually
01:35um it's a whole whirlwind of different impacts that people will feel across our daily lives so what el nino
01:43brings actually it's um due to the warming of the pacific ocean so just imagine that it is now a
01:51warm
01:52hot bath in the pacific ocean so our oceans are also absorbing a lot of heat causing now all these
02:00different extreme weather patterns um scientists had also warned that it is irregular and they have not
02:08seen readings like this any before and um we had also been warned by mad malaysia that um this
02:15phenomenon will most likely lead until earlier next year 2027 so what it will mean for everybody
02:23living a daily life is definitely the heat that it will bring you know it has been super super hot
02:29already since um last week i for one did not did well with the heat i was like melting yeah
02:37um
02:38so uh imagine weather hotter than that and that um unpredictable um patterns as well
02:47meaning that we will have drier drops that's going to happen um causing much more heat stress
02:55what this will mean for people on the ground especially for our farmers and agribusiness small
03:01medium enterprises as well is that they really have to well manage their resources because there
03:07will be a cascading and a domino impact into our supply chain as well and also food security um on
03:15top of that we already are facing inflation um from the impacts of the war so it's just additional stress
03:23that is going to be um put on to the public a lot of layers there and i'm sure a
03:28lot of people are able
03:29to relate to you when they talk about not being able to cope with the heat stepping out into the
03:34sun
03:34and sometimes can really feel like an inferno uh and it's as you've mentioned this godzilla el nino
03:41with forecast saying that it could be the strongest on record uh rahana we know we've
03:46established that malaysians are no stranger to hot and humid weather but in your opinion what makes
03:52this so different from a typical hot season and why should young people especially pay attention to it
03:58so i think that yes as malaysians were so used to it being so hot and humid but that's exactly
04:04why el nino is different because it's actually stripping away our humidity so now it's going to be
04:10hot and dry instead and with that brings things like the droughts and heat waves but and also things like
04:17wildfires which don't impact us directly more to indonesia and sumatra and kalimantan but the air
04:24pollution that those bring pushing the winds pushing it towards us here in malaysia and then
04:29we experience things like haze so el nino is kind of the cause of those kind of things and then
04:36it's
04:36also the prolonged heat that we'll experience like you guys have mentioned it's going to be lasting until
04:41early 2027 so this is going to put a strain on our water reserves on our already aging infrastructure
04:47like electricity and public transport and also to our agricultural businesses as well so el nino is
04:55basically pouring fuel on the fire of an already warming world so those was the words from the un
05:02and um as youths why we need to pay attention is because you know this is the earth that we're
05:06going
05:07to inherit so how are we going to make sure that the policy is being put in place now the
05:13infrastructure
05:13that we have currently how is this going to last for the next few decades and what will that look
05:19like that's what we need to pay attention to and when you're talking about that climate impacts are
05:24really often described in averages right but in reality it's just that some groups are far more
05:30affected than others who else do you think will bear the greatest burden if this el nino becomes as
05:37severe as we're discussing right now so unfortunately you see a lot with climate change impacts especially
05:44the most vulnerable groups are also the ones who actually contribute the least to climate change
05:48right the same goes with el nino most likely the ones who will be affected are rural and orang asli
05:54communities who are much still dependent on their own water sources they're still not properly connected
06:00to the infrastructure and therefore they rely on their streams and rivers and those are tend to dry up
06:05during el nino and you also have v40 communities which will feel the impacts of inflation and of the
06:11agricultural harvest yield being lower therefore increased prices so they will be impacted too but
06:17not only that youths who are vulnerable in terms of the health and also their education like it's i personally
06:26have experienced like my school closing down due to haze and although maybe in the time it was a happy
06:31thing for
06:32me but um with school closing down and moving to online platforms it does bring um exposing the gaps
06:40to people who do not have access to proper internet to proper devices to be properly immersed in their
06:48lectures so there's that gap that comes exposed yeah thank you for pointing out that that inequality
06:54there that's a very crucial point for us to take note of right and the the the impact the impacts
07:00your talk the both of you have talked about this domino effect and how it will trail down to our
07:04agriculture how we're going to see that in our food prices at the supermarket the thing is that
07:11youths may not immediately connect el nino directly to their wallets or their livelihoods
07:17jan i wonder if you could elaborate this further how does this in our phenomena really affect
07:21our cost of living and education yeah so from education point of view just like what
07:28uh my friend he had mentioned is that you know we are not increasingly talk about the mental and
07:34eco-anxiety that comes from it uh not just from the impact of climate change uh but from the impact
07:41that
07:41el nino will bring as well um so um in malaysia it's not typically and generally discuss and talk about
07:49when it comes to mental health issues but we know that youth are much more increasingly
07:54uh facing echo anxiety and all the dooms and glooms and like it seems like all these news headlines
08:01are like so bombarding with like godzilla and you know right right so it seems like sometimes this
08:10could be overlooked but it is something that we should really talk about with a one health approach
08:16when um our planetary boundary so many layers had been breached already but it will still comes down to
08:23the public health as well um so when we talk about the cascading effects of the super el nino with
08:30inflation increase food prices what is much more special and um alarming this year is that with the
08:38impacts of the war as well plus el nino impacts it will be further escalated because people now had
08:47really been um put on the extra burden of um inflation prices and then subsidy being uh decreased as well
08:56um so yeah our wallets are the one that are you know facing the front the very first front line
09:03at the
09:03moment we will see prices in a supermarket in our fresh agri as well it's going to increase um but
09:11behind the
09:12scene we also have to talk about smaller uh business uh enterprises uh petty farmers where you know
09:19koda had been uh reported that because um low level of water reserves that they had troubles with um their
09:27plantation and um with the impact of super el nino it's also the warming climate as well so when our
09:36oceans
09:37are absorbing all these heat it will also directly impact the ocean health the marine ecosystem and
09:44leading to mass coral bleaching as well so i would just like to point out like back in 2016 when
09:50we have
09:51the el nino as well what happened uh that followed is also a mass amount of coral bleaching and we
09:58see
09:59that um the quality of uh seafood has also been decreased so what does this mean is also um our
10:06fisher folks it's going to face um all of this impact of lower yields of quality uh seafoods so in
10:16directly it's going to impact um people's livelihood as well um so we definitely have to be prepared
10:24for what is to come uh yeah and on that topic of being prepared just to sort of also paint
10:32the on the
10:32wider scale bigger picture of it how much of what we're experiencing experiencing today is actually
10:38driven by natural climate cycles how much is being amplified by long-term climate change yeah so i'm not
10:45a scientist probably you are not a scientist as well um so i would just like to make this um
10:50as
10:51straightforward as possible so what has been reported and um repeatedly talked about by the
10:58scientific community is that they are also quite uncertain if this super el nino event have is driven
11:05by climate change um the impacts that will follow from this super el nino is also quite uncertain until
11:14it is here until we are facing the brunt the raft of it right um so what will this
11:20mean as well is that with the impacts and the catastrophe that people might feel with super el nino
11:28it is um some examples that we could link to as well of like yep these are some of the
11:36negative
11:37impacts that will also comes with uh for example like um the climate change impact although they might
11:45not be similar or everybody around the globe might feel the impact of el nino uh differently but in
11:52malaysia yes we do have to be prepared with uh drought drier weathers heat um wildfires as well and also
12:00like my friend he had mentioned definitely air pollution and the haze issue as well um the national
12:07disaster management agency or nadma has said that it's stepping up their preparedness measures so that's
12:13looking at cross-agency coordination potentially cloud seeding operations and also hotspot monitoring um
12:19rehana looking at what is currently being planned do you feel malaysia is preparing early enough
12:25are we doing enough thanks for the question so i do think that nadma is doing a really good job
12:31in terms
12:31of the cross collaborative action they're covering a lot of aspects from health ministry having like hot weather
12:38health advisors and like education ministry being involved in spreading awareness programs then you have
12:43like the geoscience and irrigation departments actually looking for different water sources
12:47and as you've mentioned the cloud seeding operations that have been running as well
12:51so i think in terms of our reactive actions we are doing a really good job but i do think
12:58that
12:58there are definitely gaps to be filled and improvements to be made when it comes to mitigation because
13:04at the end of the day this is something that will be reoccurring and we don't want to be reactive
13:08in the sense of it happens then we do something about it we want to preempt this and therefore be
13:14able
13:14to be more prepared when it does come something like when how prepared japan is for the earthquakes
13:21you know a policy level implementation where their buildings need to be earthquake proof something like
13:26that so we want to have mitigation where there's parliament level accountability and also policy changes that we
13:33see things like our national energy transition roadmap we want it to be accelerated we want there to have
13:39policies on reducing urban heat such as like green building codes and mandatory tree coverage you know
13:46things to reduce our emissions like improving the walkability and also the public transport so all these
13:54different elements play a role in making malaysia much much more prepared for the future climate change
14:00issues and also for the coming el nino's because it does reoccur every two to seven years and based on
14:07our experiences the el nino's are only getting stronger and stronger so it really it really is important
14:13for us to be prepared for the coming ones so not working in silos is already a really good step
14:19but the
14:19fact that we need to go even further back to be even more prepared in advance yan what what do
14:25you think
14:25what sort of what should preparation really look like before temperatures peak yeah so we know that
14:31there are you know technologies are advancing as well and scientists are getting smarter of detecting this
14:37kind of phenomenon and weather changes um so what we do definitely need is also disaster risk management
14:45policies unlike what my friend had said we do not want to be reactive we have to be prepared for
14:51timely
14:51mobilization but behind the scenes we also do need stronger policies to support all of these
14:58actions being taken place mitigation adaptations uh effort that will help us be building more resilient
15:06not just along our food supply chain uh energy security but also looking at um the wellness the
15:13well-being of the public as well um expanding the use of early warning system would definitely help in the
15:21release but um with the prediction of different weather patterns um cross-cutting um across agency
15:29definitely will have to work hand in hand um within the time frame to mobilize themselves really really
15:36quickly on the ground um so yes there are measures being uh implemented um with better policies i do believe
15:44that we could be well prepared in the future but the time to act is now we cannot you know
15:50spend
15:51another second another minute to wait for action um to happen while discussion is happening behind
15:58meeting rooms right the people outside are actually feeling the impact already so putting el nino aside
16:07when weathers are getting hot especially in urban settings we also do have um people that work
16:14outdoor are we seeing any actually um heat shelter that is being set up across city and um we are
16:22always
16:22impacted by flash flood in urban setting as well we know that sometimes in flip flip prone areas
16:30there should be alarms that goes off but sometimes that could come a little bit late and sometimes people
16:38might not hear it so um in other countries um typically sms would be sent out in a blast so
16:44that people in the
16:45area are kept alerted so you know just things like this um that needs to be improved as well well
16:53you've
16:54already pointed um out one where sometimes we get warnings a little bit late and i wanted to expand on
17:00that a little bit more because in we're looking at previous extreme weather events in malaysia and rahana has
17:06also pointed out how these are cycles that reoccur once every few years it what sort of lessons did
17:13malaysia fail to learn from our previous um experiences with extreme weather events and what sort of
17:19mistakes can can we not afford to be repeated again this time yeah yep um so with the impacts of
17:27extreme
17:28weather events it comes with a lot of socio-economic and macroeconomic costs as well
17:34um on top of that sometimes unfortunately uh there is also loss of life so these are devastating events
17:42that actually governments do really have to step up on um some of these immediate measures so when we
17:49talk about things like haze people will be much more alerted when haze is actually here because they can
17:55see it and they can feel it um so what happens is with this super alino mad had also put
18:02out a press
18:02statement um saying that open burning uh should be avoided but you know this kind of wording should
18:10be avoided shouldn't be there in the first place so what does this translate that actually we need open
18:18burning to be banned and to be put in policies and with really strict implementation and enforcement
18:26not just putting that on paper and saying that hey people we should stop open burning because el nino
18:32it's coming and we're gonna have drier weathers so don't burn anything guys so that is not really
18:38helping right so definitely i do agree that with um better policies strong enforcement that being put in
18:46place and where we could have you know accountability from the government as well and also some of the biggest
18:52corporations out there um with better business practices is also have to be uh definitely encouraged
18:59as well accountability is a very big aspect there um and i just wanted to go back a little
19:05bit um to our earlier conversation where you talked a lot about this sort of eco anxiety climate anxiety
19:11that a lot of people are facing because of all the bad news and all those these warnings that we've
19:17been seeing
19:18it's natural for i think a lot of people to experience this sort of climate anxiety um rayhana i
19:23see you nodding your head a lot um as yan was speaking um what are your thoughts on this because
19:29every year just seems to be hotter than the last and now we're getting these repeated warnings of how
19:33the worst is yet to come how should we be balancing this concern with action especially among youths
19:40yeah i think um as yan mentioned earlier about climate anxiety it's a really
19:45real thing that impacts a lot of us who care and as you mentioned about concern it's really a double
19:52edged sword like on one hand it's like i care so i want to do something about it but at
19:56the same time
19:57it's like i care so i feel really upset when it doesn't go my way or it's so easy to
20:02get demotivated and
20:03get climate anxiety when you see all this news again and again on how things are really developing and
20:10becoming worse so um personally not to promote you fear or anything but honestly finding a community
20:17was something that really helped me with dealing with my climate anxiety you know being in a circle
20:22of people who are like-minded and not only that surrounded by people who are so inspiring generally
20:28just keeps you motivated to keep going because you see these amazing inspiring people in your life
20:33i want to be like that too you know and not only that having a community gives you this support
20:40and with that comes you not feeling guilty with needing to take a step back because i think a lot
20:47of us don't just have one thing on our minds we're not just where we work and stuff but we
20:52also have
20:52family we have our other projects you know other things on our plate so sometimes those things might
20:59get overwhelming and we might need to take a step back from climate activism right and it's okay
21:03because you know that there are other people in this community that will keep the work going
21:07and when you're ready to take the mantle up you can come back with no guilt and just keep working
21:12so i think climate anxiety is definitely a real issue and finding a community helps a lot
21:17but with the coming of el nino um there are actually really strong links of increased heat
21:24and mental health so there was a study by university malaya back in 2022 and in fact where they found
21:30that um depression and anxiety a big cause of it was constant exposure to high temperatures
21:35and links to suicide risk as well so high temperatures actually do exacerbate our mental health conditions
21:42and which is why i think it's good that the mental that the health ministry are having mental um
21:48um health advisors for hot weather but on top of that i think us needing to be more mindful of
21:56our
21:56mental health is really important as well yeah that's a very interesting link that you wrote up sorry yan
22:01yeah i do agree that it should also be discussed more publicly even in school it should also be embedded
22:07in the school syllabus and school counselors should also picked up signs that might you know um being
22:14impacted by kids in school i'm no longer a youth already but i do agree with finding your community
22:21and talking to people about it and especially when you need help do seek the help uh counselors in
22:28and school teachers do definitely have to be trained a bit more on how to identify some of the signs
22:34because like i've mentioned echo anxiety could be you know embedded in all of this it's just
22:40could be buried so deep down below that nobody can actually you know kind of instantly detect it
22:47right so yeah it's um a thing not generally discussed about but it's there we should also not um ignore
22:56it
22:56finding your community to um empower you to go further and to build the resilient as well like um our
23:05team
23:05would always like to say is that if you want to go far uh if you want to do things
23:10quick you do it
23:12alone but if you want to go far you want to be resilient you do it as a team so
23:17we are part of this
23:18global citizen when we when it comes to climate change um and the super el nino impacts because
23:25these are trans boundary issues what trans boundary really means by that is that there are no borders
23:31when it comes to the impact to climate change and super el nino so we should not leave anyone behind
23:38because those are definitely most impacted are not the ones contributing to all of these impacts and
23:46risk and sometimes you also have kids women and persons with disability uh beating up at the most front
23:55lines and they are also bearing a lot of the fronts as well that people might not directly link to
24:02definitely um ensuring that we don't forget these vulnerable groups these high-risk groups
24:09and then thanks to both of you for highlighting the importance of really having a community a
24:13support group and also driving more open conversations regarding mental health and
24:18especially now the link of it towards our weather um we are almost out of time but before we wrap
24:24up i
24:24just wanted to very quickly ask the both of you what do you think with all the steps that we've
24:29outlined
24:30here and seeing how it has impacts in all sectors industries whether it's youths women corporate sector
24:38schools um what does real climate resilience look like for malaysia and what should it look like for
24:45malaysia over the next decade jan should we start with you yeah it's kind of like a trick questions while
24:50we have you know the national policy on energy transition that would definitely guide us through and
24:56achieving to our 2050 net zero uh goals and objectives um we do also have a lot of dependence
25:05on fossil fuel what the impact of the war this year show us that it exposes our vulnerability on
25:14depending so much on fossil fuel the reliant on that because not everybody links the entire supply chain
25:20back to fossil fuel and pad cam but since the war had started we had seen you know the industry
25:26being
25:27faced with a lot of pressure on supply chain disruption hence a lot of these um leading to increased prices
25:34we are seeing those price increase on our shelves already when we go to the supermarket to buy our daily
25:39needs right um so yeah um definitely we need a just and equitable transition away from fossil fuel in the
25:49meantime not leaving anyone behind it and sometimes uh some of these transition projects uh is what we
25:57call it um investments into renewable energy might put some groups of people at risk so what we also have
26:05to take into consideration is that there is free prior and informed consent when it comes to mega
26:10projects on renewable energy as well because they also should not be left behind when we talk about
26:16our net emission goals um so definitely um you know changing our lifestyles although it might not happen
26:23instantly but keeping yourself um aware uh and reading much more about it discuss it a bit more
26:31do definitely help build the awareness in people on how you could be better prepped for climate change
26:37the impact of it and how you could also minimize your impact to ensure that there is also climate
26:44justice for everybody because um we do not inherit this earth uh for ourselves it is for our future
26:51generation as well so definitely yes collective action across is definitely quite important and you
26:59know our youths are the next brightest mind and rahana perfect segue to rahana what would climate
27:06resilience in malaysia look like over the next few years climate resilience for me means how well
27:11malaysia can adapt and recover from all these climate events without it collapsing so that comes in two
27:17prongs like the one i was mentioning how we are really good at reactive actions but then the second
27:22one is adaptive and mitigating right so i think mainly right now is we need to decentralize our supplies so
27:30for example water energy and also agriculturally we need to not depend on just one or two supplies
27:38instead we need to be able to um back ourselves up so even if these supplies collapse we have something
27:46to depend on so for example like with water we have states like kedah that has zero percent in water
27:52reserves you know melaka perles and kelantan all have like five percent or below in their water reserves so we
27:59need to have policies implemented where like for example rain water collection is made mandatory for all these
28:05commercial or condominium buildings where there's like neighborhood level treatment plants and even
28:11with energy you know having solar on our roof panels and having a battery for the neighborhood things like
28:19that where you are no longer dependent on one source so that in the future you are able to sustain
28:25yourself
28:25as well and then secondly is of course i think better urban planning for climate resilience because
28:31let's just take KL as an example you have all these narrow canopies that trap heat and have lower
28:37air circulation you have tall glass buildings that reflect all this heat onto tar and asphalt that just
28:43absorb heat so it's just heat upon heat upon heat so we need to find a way to actually introduce
28:49better
28:50policies and for our future urban planning to be more resilient for our climate right thank you so much
28:56both of you for sharing your insights it's been a great discussion i've been speaking to rehana luqman
29:01from youth as well as wang dunsin better known as yan from greenpeace malaysia this has been it's about
29:08youth with me fae kwan thank you for watching and see you next time
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