- 6 hours ago
Lara O'Reilly speaks with Charlie Smith and NOTHING’s collaboration with Charlie XCX, making tech cool again and taking on the phone giants Apple and Samsung.
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00:00Inherently, if you're following some kind of like playbook that has worked in the past,
00:06it's highly likely it's not going to work now because the pace of change is so fast.
00:13This is CMO Insider, where you'll get candid takes from marketing power players.
00:17My name is Lara O'Reilly. I'm a senior correspondent at Business Insider.
00:22And today I'm here with Charlie from Nothing.
00:25Now, Charlie Smith, your chief brand officer at Nothing, a tech brand.
00:29You can pride yourself on your minimalist kind of chic design, headphones, smartphones, wearables.
00:35And you joined, I think, earlier this year?
00:38Very recently, yeah.
00:39I joined at the beginning of January after seven years at Loave, the Spanish luxury fashion brand owned by LVMH.
00:47And what brought you to Nothing? What was what was so compelling?
00:50I knew after kind of that seven year stint that I wanted to do something different and nothing just really
00:57appealed to me as a brand.
00:59First off, it's British and I'm deeply patriotic and love the idea of being able to create another British super
01:05brand.
01:06I think the last one to emerge here was probably Dyson.
01:09So that's very exciting.
01:10And then also, I think the aesthetic and the values of the company really appealed to me.
01:15And a kind of kind of retro futurism, you know, it reminds me of kind of like 90s Casio and
01:21Blade Runner and all of that kind of fun stuff.
01:24And I think what what Carl's been trying to do is to call pay.
01:29Sorry, I should say, call call pay, the founder of nothing previously of OnePlus, who, you know, he's an incredible
01:36person to work with real visionary.
01:38And has built nothing, I think, very much in a community driven way.
01:44And we've got this incredibly engaged community.
01:46It's very open in the way that sort of Apple and Samsung are probably actually kind of very closed.
01:52And that kind of really appealed to me. It felt very modern.
01:54And what's the brief then? Why did they need to bring in a chief brand officer, you at this time?
02:00Well, I think we really want to be the most fashionable tech brand there's been for a while.
02:07And it's a pretty low bar because I think most tech tech is deeply unfashionable.
02:13Right. Again, I was I was trying to think about it and I was really going back to like things
02:17like the G-Shock watch as being something that was like genuinely a trend and genuinely cool.
02:21I think obviously Apple did it a bit in the late 90s with, you know, the iPod and stuff that
02:27really felt like a kind of like cool accessory in in marketing in general, not just in tech.
02:33There was this trend in roughly that same period outside of luxury fashion where performance marketing was the new exciting
02:41thing.
02:42And lots of brands began chasing kind of like conversion and efficiency and kind of really focusing on the data
02:50at the expense of brand building.
02:53And ultimately, I think we can see if you look at Nike's share price, what that's done for them, that
02:58that pivot.
02:58Whereas me kind of growing up in my early career, they were the bar in terms of kind of cultural
03:06brand marketing.
03:07And that's why they became so cool.
03:09But on the flip side, is that because there aren't things like mass reach vehicles like TV aren't aren't what
03:15they were.
03:16You can't do that like iconic 30 second spot in the same way.
03:20One hundred percent.
03:21And actually, the way that I described it as Lwabe is that we had to act like a publisher, like
03:27a kind of magazine in our own right.
03:30So, you know, instead of doing three big campaigns a year, we moved to doing like two shoots a week.
03:37Like it's a different model of working, but I think you can have the same cultural impact that you could
03:43before.
03:43But it's more of like a drip feed thing.
03:46Yeah.
03:46And that's why nothing.
03:47So we just announced Charlie XCX is our first global brand ambassador and shareholder in the brand.
03:53I think it's a really big moment for us as a company.
03:57And I've definitely seen that it's kind of the pickup and traction from it has been, you know, really strong.
04:02That's such a get.
04:03This is someone at the kind of like height of their career.
04:08Also, I imagine a brand ambassador that a Coke or a Dove might might not feel comfortable with.
04:14Why does Charlie XCX and the nothing brand like work well together?
04:17I think one of the reasons why is that it kind of it was a rallying against the fake perfection
04:25of social media and that world in a way.
04:28I think, you know, she's previously described Brat as being like, you know, sort of a strappy top, no bra,
04:35pack of fags and a big lighter.
04:36You know, it's kind of this this rawness and this realness that I think really resonated with her community and
04:43this kind of younger audience.
04:44And I think for nothing, we're kind of railing against the sort of boringness that has taken over tech and
04:54hardware recently.
04:56I remember going to hi-fi shops growing up and it was super exciting.
04:59There were all of these hi-fi stacks with like flashing lights and scrolling text.
05:03And, you know, my hi-fi used to say good morning to me when I turned it on.
05:07And I feel like we've lost some of that playfulness and personality.
05:10So it kind of feels quite powerful to me to have this kind of alignment of, you know, being a
05:18bit kind of countercultural and sort of believing that there's kind of an alternate exciting future out there that's maybe
05:25not the present that we've been living in.
05:28But I guess for all like the kind of the clinical aspects to what they do, you know, these are
05:32hugely successful companies that are very mass market all over the world.
05:36They have huge marketing budgets.
05:39So how do you kind of cut through at a time when, you know, Apple's marketing budget is in the
05:45multi-million and Samsung's is in the billions?
05:48I think when you're small, you can't follow the same paybook as your bigger competitors because it will just be
05:54a drop in the ocean.
05:54So you have to take on guerrilla techniques.
05:58And I love this example about Bumble, right?
06:02When it first launched is that they went into loads of college campuses and put up posters saying no Instagram,
06:09no Facebook, no Bumble.
06:11And so all of the students were like, wait, what's Bumble?
06:14Why am I allowed to use it?
06:15And it was super cheap to do because they literally just printed out A4 sheets.
06:18And then they also kind of paid student ambassadors to wear Bumble merch and turn up late to lectures that
06:26everyone turned around and looked at them.
06:28You know, I think stuff like that is actually really creative and imaginative.
06:32And, you know, we're thinking of things that we can do.
06:35So, for example, when we launched our pink phone, the 4A, we actually graffitied our own billboards with pink spray
06:43paint.
06:44And also our store, you know, with things like I miss Paris Hilton.
06:49How do you kind of maintain that element to your marketing as you get bigger?
06:55You're looking to massively scale up in the U.S.
06:58You're opening new stores.
06:59Presumably you want to expand globally.
07:02The idea is to be not just a challenger, but hopefully to challenge some of these bigger tech giants.
07:07So how do you maintain what feels super creative but also perhaps can't be mass produced?
07:14But I think if we really want to become the most loved tech company for this generation, we need to
07:21show how we're kind of giving back to culture and actually really sort of, you know, leaving it with more
07:30than when we first kind of got involved.
07:33And I think some brands are very obviously just like sort of hijacking culture or kind of taking from it.
07:39That's why I think it's really important if we take music as an example, you know, I really want to
07:43in the future be able to create like a platform where we can support emerging artists and kind of, you
07:49know, show them to a new audience.
07:52And now a word from our sponsor, LinkedIn Ads, to talk about how to cut the ballspend from your marketing
07:57budget.
07:58Marketing leaders today are under more pressure than ever to prove real impact and concrete business outcomes.
08:05I'm joined by Keith Browning, Director of Global Brand Marketing at LinkedIn, to learn more.
08:10What makes LinkedIn uniquely suited to deliver measurable business outcomes, especially in B2B?
08:16LinkedIn is the largest professional network in the world.
08:18So we're built for this.
08:20We're built for B2B.
08:21So that means firstly, being able to find the right people.
08:23So, you know, you can target by job title or seniority company, etc.
08:28But there's also the professional context component as well.
08:31So people come to LinkedIn to learn, to evaluate potential solutions and certainly to make buying decisions as well.
08:40What's your biggest challenge right now as a marketer?
08:42As I say, you're kind of advancing in the U.S.
08:44I mean, I know you exist in the U.S., but you're moving there in a big way.
08:48So for the U.S., I think we have quite a few plans.
08:54And I think Charlie XCX being one of them.
08:56Obviously, she's a British artist, but with, you know, huge cultural relevance in the U.S.
09:01And we're also opening stores with kind of a store slash studio in San Francisco and also another store in
09:09New York.
09:10I think one of the biggest challenges, not just as a marketer, but for the industry more broadly at the
09:16moment, is the cost of memory.
09:19Because I'm not sure if you're aware, but it's increasing exponentially.
09:23So that's like an interesting challenge as we grow to kind of navigate the next 18 months.
09:31And does that become a brand challenge for you?
09:33I mean, it sounds like a manufacturing one.
09:35I think it's going to be a challenge over the next six months.
09:39I think you're going to see most tech companies putting their prices up.
09:42Yeah.
09:43And that's going to be an interesting thing to explain to consumers, because for a very long time, we've been
09:48used to the price of technology decreasing.
09:50And it feels counterintuitive as we're on the cusp of this AI revolution for the price to be going up,
09:56not down.
09:56And what is your AI positioning?
09:59And we've been speaking mostly about your kind of hardware products, your phones and earbuds and so on.
10:04But you are embracing AI in your OS.
10:09I think our long term plan for AI is that all devices are going to become AI native in the
10:17next couple of years.
10:18And that we're going to move from this kind of app world to a more agentic world that's more kind
10:24of widget based, where essentially, you know, the interface can adapt to your needs and deliver you the relevant information
10:33that you require.
10:35So everything that we're building now is kind of towards that vision.
10:38And how do you think AI kind of stands at the moment sort of as a brand?
10:42It feels like there's a bit of an anti-AI backlash going on, especially among Gen Z.
10:47We're seeing lots of, you know, boos at commencement speeches and...
10:51For sure.
10:51And I think, you know, we're calling our sort of AI powered products essential, because it's more about what they
10:59do.
11:00It's like, this is a better version of dictation.
11:02I think a lot of these leaders in tech of these AI companies are really talking up AGI and the
11:12fact that AI is going to take over our jobs in order to inflate the valuation of the company and
11:18get more funding.
11:19But I strongly believe that that's not the reality that we're heading towards.
11:23I think if you look at the Industrial Revolution, there were sort of headlines in the newspapers that machines were
11:29going to take our jobs.
11:30And I really believe that we're going to enter a new era of creativity, because like me, for example, now
11:37if I think of an idea, I can build it myself.
11:40To me, AI at the moment is an incredible tool for creativity and productivity.
11:46And it's really a kind of marketing and a branding problem that's creating this very strong backlash towards it.
11:53Because all of these kids, by the way, who are anti-AI are on ChatGPT the whole time.
12:00So you're a marketer then.
12:02How do you solve a problem like the AI brand problem right now?
12:06The focus has to be on the value it can deliver, not on it as a sort of concept with
12:13kind of like robotics and kind of all of that stuff.
12:17I think it's interesting, right?
12:18If you compare the approach of the US and China, in China, AI is just being implemented in different categories
12:25and different businesses in a very practical way.
12:28And no one's talking up this kind of sort of, you know, artificial intelligence kind of robotic future.
12:34And so people are much more comfortable with it.
12:36How has it changed how you work and the people that you hire?
12:41Yeah, going back to this point on kind of creativity and productivity, we're trying to automate everything that we can.
12:48So these business as usual tasks of analytics and optimization and data reporting can all basically be done no longer
12:56manually, but kind of using AI.
12:58So that the very talented humans we have on the team can spend less time on the reporting and more
13:03time on coming up with great ideas to move the business forward.
13:07So, yeah, I sometimes think that maybe we've just reached this point of kind of peak work and that actually
13:12we're going to have more time in the future to come up with ideas and be creative.
13:17And now a word from our sponsor, LinkedIn Ads, to talk about how to cut the bullspend from your marketing
13:22budget.
13:23LinkedIn's Cut the Bullspend campaign urges marketers to rethink how they evaluate performance and where their budgets actually drive impact.
13:31I'm here with Keith Browning, Director of Global Brand Marketing at LinkedIn, to learn more.
13:37How do you define bullspend in practical terms?
13:40So I'd say bullspend is really wasted advertising spend.
13:43It's any investment that leads to a great looking dashboard.
13:46So the numbers look good, the arrows are going in the right direction, but really it's not actually doing anything
13:51to drive the business forward.
13:53So it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
13:54How does LinkedIn help marketers reduce waste and increase efficiency in real terms?
14:00At LinkedIn, you don't have to pay for attention from people who are never going to buy from you.
14:05A mass reach works great if you're selling breakfast cereal, not so much if you're selling CRM.
14:10That's really where LinkedIn is different.
14:12There does seem to be a big trend in tech at the moment and in Silicon Valley more kind of
14:17broadly about going direct, right?
14:20Like bypassing traditional media, traditional reviews maybe, starting your own podcast, starting your own media brands.
14:28Is that something that you sort of subscribe to as well?
14:30I don't really see it so much as bypassing as more just kind of working across all of the different
14:37sort of available channels that there are.
14:40One of the things that, you know, this is even before my time at Nothing, the team had done this
14:45amazing job of acting kind of like a new age kind of content creator and publisher.
14:50Now other brands are approaching us to work with us as a content creator, which is a really...
14:55How does that work?
14:57Well, because I think they see us as experts and being able to create this kind of new age media,
15:01you know, for YouTube, for social.
15:04And so we can do these kind of brand collaborations where we're telling different stories.
15:09Because that's the thing.
15:10I think we're not just telling product stories on social media, right?
15:14We're telling stories across tech and across culture.
15:17And that's really what...
15:19When I say I want us to act like a publisher, I want it to be like a new age
15:22media version of reading like Wired magazine or something where it's like you have your tech section, you have your
15:29fashion section, you have your music section.
15:31And I think that's why or like how you can build a community around the brand because people know you're
15:36not just selling products.
15:38You're also participating in culture and you're as interested as they are in the different trends that are emerging
15:46and how that all kind of connects together.
15:48And I think we want to give people that access.
15:51We want to let people in and make them feel part of the company.
15:55Like it's a mix between luxury and startup, the kind of thing that you're doing.
15:59Like there's like the grassroots level and then going up to the, you know, the incredible like billboards that you
16:04have in Shoreditch at the moment with Charlie XCX.
16:07I'm wondering how other marketers at bigger brands should think about applying some of these playbooks.
16:16Inherently, if you're following some kind of like playbook that has worked in the past, it's highly likely it's not
16:24going to work now because the pace of change is so fast.
16:27To me, that would be like my number one piece of advice to marketers out there, which is like be
16:33incredibly hungry to learn about your customer and where they're spending their time and how they're doing it.
16:42And then think about how you can then show up in an authentic way in that place in a way
16:50that's going to really matter to them.
16:53What are some of the newer platforms that you're getting excited about?
16:57Maybe they don't even have to be new, but kind of new to the brand.
17:00I'm really fascinated.
17:03I think it's less of a kind of new type of platform, but I'm really fascinated at the moment by
17:08kind of this whole thing of like clipping networks.
17:13Those clips people are watching on YouTube.
17:15They're watching them on TikTok.
17:16They're watching them on, you know, Instagram reels.
17:19So that's definitely something that I'm finding fascinating.
17:23I'm also fascinated by the fact that I've met a few people now who have created accounts solely using AI.
17:32And if you follow the logical progression of that thought, right, if more and more people do that and more
17:37and more of social media just becomes AI content,
17:41will we as humans want to spend less and less time on it?
17:45And therefore, will, you know, Meta and Google and others then try and fight it and block it off the
17:51platforms?
17:51Because they know that actually we as humans want to see content from other humans.
17:55So that's I'm just constantly thinking about, like, what's the dynamic and how will trends change?
18:00And I think one of the reactions to this might be the brand start doing more in-person physical events
18:08and activations again, which also is kind of interesting.
18:12Well, that seems to be the thing that gets cut for you now, right?
18:16It's not whatever the post was on Nike's account.
18:20It was the 10 people taking pictures of it or taking videos of it on TikTok.
18:25And one of those went viral.
18:26And that's how it reached a bigger audience.
18:29Exactly.
18:30Like the Arsenal players at five o'clock in the morning outside the Emirates Stadium.
18:34Glad you mentioned that.
18:35Yeah.
18:36So, yeah, I think that's why it's incredibly hard to predict virality.
18:42But I think it is really important when you're coming up with ideas to try and think, like, what's something
18:48about this that people might want to share with each other?
18:51And then how can we help kind of, like, build on that idea and amplify it?
18:56And just to end on, Charlie, I'm really interested.
18:59I imagine there's a lot of people who'd be interested in working with you or a brand like nothing.
19:04What could people do to stand out to make sure that they'll capture your attention, be it on social media,
19:11on a resume, in an interview?
19:12Like, what are the kind of things that stick out to you?
19:14Well, I think, first off, you know, you'd be surprised.
19:19I've hired people from their LinkedIn messages before.
19:23You're going to get a deluge now.
19:25I do think that being proactive and reaching out to people is important.
19:30I've had someone write an album as their resume and put it on vinyl and send the vinyl.
19:39Did you hire them?
19:42We, first off, we played it in the office.
19:45We all loved it.
19:46Then basically invited them for an interview.
19:49We didn't actually have a job opening at the time.
19:50But it got an interview, which I think just shows that, you know, it's really powerful to do things like
19:58that.
19:59Because it's showing your, you know, entrepreneurial spirit, your creativity, you know, all of those things together.
20:06That sets the bar quite high.
20:09Now everyone's just going to be turning their CVs into albums.
20:13Well, you know, at least it's physical copy.
20:15It's human endeavor.
20:15That's what we want to hear in this world of AI.
20:18Charlie, thank you so much for joining us on CMO Insider.
20:21I've really enjoyed it.
20:22And if you enjoyed this interview, please like and subscribe for more CMO Insider content.
20:26You can also find more marketing, news, analysis, scoops, interviews at businessinsider.com.
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