An Affair- My Wife's Friend

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Transcript

00:00:05his wife kind of made a pass at me and we have been in an affair now for the last

00:00:12eight months

00:00:13or so you're not calling me to ask like oh god i've blown up my life and my wife's life

00:00:19it's not why you're calling you're calling to ask is this true love or not

00:00:28what's going on what's going on this is john with the dr john deloney show hope you

00:00:34have a lot of joy in your life today may not be the best day of your life you may

00:00:38not be super

00:00:39happy but i hope that you're where you need to be doing the things you need to be doing

00:00:43to help create the life that you want to be living man on this show i sit with hurting people

00:00:47trying

00:00:48to figure out what's the next right move in these crazy lives we're trying to live in these crazy

00:00:54times and um i know when this show will come out hopefully things will dramatically have improved

00:01:00but man we are a week into just the caustic caustic wildfires going on with our friends and family in

00:01:06los angeles and the surrounding areas and so just know that um if you're listening to the show right

00:01:12now it was shot a month earlier and um but we are actively thinking about and praying about and

00:01:18involved in supporting our friends and loved ones so everybody listening from out there thank

00:01:24y'all for joining us and um please don't be shy about asking for the help and care that you

00:01:28need

00:01:28and uh give her you give your neighbors and friends a chance to step up if you want to be

00:01:33on the show

00:01:34give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com slash ask a s k

00:01:41let's go right down the

00:01:43street here in nashville tennessee and talk to will what's up will how we doing man

00:01:48hey john how's it going i'm doing all right brother what's up hey so i got a quick question

00:01:53for you here i uh i kind of uh got myself in a little bit of predicament and uh so

00:01:59uh i'll just

00:02:00get right into it um my wife and i we've been married uh for about five years and um in

00:02:08that

00:02:08time frame i was able to reconnect with a friend of mine uh that i had made a male friend

00:02:15of mine that

00:02:16i had made after high school um and whatnot started to kind of hang out with uh with him

00:02:21and uh found out kind of through hanging out with him that his uh his wife kind of made a

00:02:28pass at me

00:02:28and we have been in an affair now for the last probably eight months or so um we've obviously

00:02:38talked about uh just about everything under the sun and i guess i'm trying to figure out um you know

00:02:46if i am i interested in this person um or is it just the thrill of having an affair and

00:02:54and doing

00:02:55something obviously that you know you're not supposed to do um and so i'm trying to trying to figure out

00:03:01how

00:03:01to figure that out um because uh you know i i just want a little bit of advice on trying

00:03:10to how to

00:03:10progress forward with that

00:03:16oh man um so let me just walk it back and you can just yeah tell me up or down

00:03:27so you are sleeping with a great friend's wife correct does your friend know he does not does

00:03:37your wife know she does not and so you're not calling me to ask like oh god i've blown up

00:03:44my

00:03:44life in my wife's life and i've blown up one of my close buddies lives it's not why you're calling

00:03:50you're calling to ask is this true love or not i'm calling to ask because uh you know in the

00:03:58time

00:03:58that i've chatted with this person you know we've obviously we've we've talked a lot more about the

00:04:05the just the the physical nature of of things and you know there's been times where we both had the

00:04:13idea that you know our lives potentially could be better with that other person but obviously

00:04:19that's not something that i you know want to i don't want to jump into something or i don't want

00:04:26to technically uh pursue something and then turns out it was just because of the thrill of an affair

00:04:33i mean my my wife and i we've had our struggles and our issues pre the involvement of the affair

00:04:40or

00:04:40my friend um almost called it off a few different times without that being a factor um so i think

00:04:48it

00:04:48was just kind of came across at the timing that i was the most uh vulnerable to accept it um

00:04:55but

00:04:59yeah so

00:05:04so i guess the best thing i could tell you or the right thing i could tell you is you

00:05:09are so um

00:05:11what what it's like you're watching um the lion king you're watching like you're watching like a

00:05:18disney movie in the theater and you're watching these animals all talking to each other

00:05:26and you're wondering what it would be like to talk to one of those animals too

00:05:32like okay you're

00:05:36your questions are so divorced from the reality with which you actually find yourself that it

00:05:42tells me that you've had to construct a world where this is okay and there's a world that

00:05:47everything's going to be okay on the other end of this because if you didn't have that kind of

00:05:51psychological uh moat around what you're actually doing you would implode because you become

00:05:58somebody that you could never have imagined you would be

00:06:02you're sleeping with that makes sense you're sleeping with one of your closest friends wives

00:06:09period right actively for over a year having sex with somebody that's not your wife putting her at

00:06:15physical danger putting her at grave emotional danger i mean like and what you're thinking about

00:06:22is man isn't this going to be wonderful on the other side of this thing it's kind of like watching

00:06:28it's like it's like you're in los angeles right now watching your house burn down

00:06:33and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild

00:06:37right like you're not absorbing reality and so number one no place in this conversation are we

00:06:47talking about how are these feelings real or not not until we've looked your wife in the eye and

00:06:55said i've blown our marriage up and i don't want to be with you anymore not until you've looked your

00:07:00buddy in the eye and said i've been sleeping with your wife for a year i'm sorry and after the

00:07:06ash

00:07:07settles back to earth after that conversation those conversations then you can ask yourself okay and are

00:07:15we are we in a relationship are we going to try to build this thing and make it go and

00:07:19move forward

00:07:20together which the percentages on that just the the scientifically the the percentages of those

00:07:25relationships being successful are very very very low right because in the old bumper sticker like

00:07:34it's true somewhere somebody else is tired of her too and you also right like y'all get y'all

00:07:40just

00:07:40living in a fantasy world we don't have to deal with reality you just get to have these romantic

00:07:44oh my gosh conversations and you get me in passion and we get to have sex and there's nothing anchored

00:07:50to it in reality like dishes and bills and hey we're trying to build a life together and i want

00:07:55to do this but i want to do this yeah y'all y'all have to y'all are skipping

00:07:58all of that so until you

00:08:00anchor back into earth any conversations y'all have are just fantasy they're just disney movies they're not

00:08:07real what why why haven't you sat down and had that conversation with your wife yet um so we've been

00:08:16obviously dealing like i had previously stated we had been dealing with um our own obviously struggles

00:08:23um yeah but you took you took struggle every marriage i've had nightmarish struggles you went

00:08:28you went the next step right so uh i haven't sat down and talked with her uh about it because

00:08:36um

00:08:38i guess i'm kind of put it in my mind that if this marriage that i have with my wife

00:08:45were to

00:08:46potentially fail that i didn't want this reasoning of what's going on be bro you have failed it

00:08:58like you're the failure you get what i'm saying right and i'm sure she's got her own challenges

00:09:03i'm not saying she's perfect but right like you're actively sleeping with your buddy's wife like well if

00:09:08this thing doesn't work right it's like you're the one that's not working right in it you get what i'm

00:09:16what i'm saying is that like obviously our marriage pre this had obviously its problems we're trying

00:09:23we were trying to you know work on those things and i obviously made the mistake initially and

00:09:30you know her and i we haven't engaged in anything in a while because obviously i'm taking a step back

00:09:36but it's also one of those that it's at the point where i feel like in order to

00:09:43build with my wife if that's what her and i choose to do then i need to obviously be up

00:09:49front and honest with her about everything that has happened and if i do that then

00:09:56bro listen listen listen listen listen listen listen you're and i like

00:10:03i'm really close to compassionate for you right now

00:10:07i'm frustrated with you i'm angry with you but i'm also compassionate because i think you have

00:10:12created a delusion that you live in and you use i wouldn't disagree with that you use these huge

00:10:19circular well you know and then we might listen to me so carefully

00:10:27you're having sex with another man's wife and you're getting going home and you're laying in your bed

00:10:33next to yours you're having sex with your buddy's wife and then y'all go have dinner together as a

00:10:41foursome

00:10:45that is where everything has to start

00:10:50you can't be sleeping with somebody else's wife and trying to see if your marriage is gonna make it

00:10:57that's madness will madness and you can't be hanging out with your buddy while you're banging his wife

00:11:05and be like well i'm trying to figure out if our feelings are right or wrong or what what are

00:11:10you

00:11:10doing man you get what i'm saying

00:11:16no i get what you're saying i think so like today today needs to be the day

00:11:21today needs to be the day that you tell your wife we got to talk i've been having an eight

00:11:26month affair with our mutual friends and i've blown our marriage to smithereens yes we had problems

00:11:33yes there were holes in the boat and i detonated it

00:11:37and you being a grown man need to say i've already got me an apartment i've already got me a

00:11:42friend's

00:11:42couch to crash on because i know i've blown your world up and i don't want you to have to

00:11:45move to

00:11:47and maybe she comes back and says well i should probably tell you i've been sleeping with somebody

00:11:50else too maybe right maybe who knows is she having an affair too i would doubt it okay

00:11:59obviously i don't know but and then you ask your friend i'm going to meet you in a diner

00:12:02here in nashville we got to talk

00:12:07or you tell your the woman you're having an affair with hey you got 24 hours because

00:12:11i got to come clean with my buddy i've become somebody that i never dreamed i would be and

00:12:19i have to stop i think that's that's where i've been struggling because it's like i have gotten

00:12:26far down the road obviously and i think in my mind i have this delusion that

00:12:33there is a different path out besides going back there's not a way to land the plane there is no

00:12:38going

00:12:39back but your fantasy about how this plane lands is false too both are true so there's no going back

00:12:46you blew it up the boat's gone you and your wife might choose to go to swim to shore amid

00:12:53all the

00:12:54rubble and rebuild a new boat that happens all the time and i'll walk with you if that's what y

00:12:59'all want

00:13:00to do you and this other person have a sliver teeny tiny sliver of statistical probability that

00:13:10you've blown up your life she's blown up hers and y'all choose to build a boat together on whatever

00:13:16shore y'all swim to maybe but you'll always wonder if she's sleeping with somebody else like she did with

00:13:21you and vice versa this is very shaky ground to build a new thing but it happens

00:13:30but there is no like then you have a hard conversation with your wife and she's like

00:13:35well i don't really want to work on this and you're like that's cool i already have a four

00:13:38bedroom three bath house with somebody else and her your buddy her husband is like ah well it didn't

00:13:43work out this time that's just not how this ends man right and so the quicker you can re-anchor

00:13:52to reality

00:13:55and from a place from the inside out because dude you have you have created a verbal

00:14:03gymnastic studio that you just swirl around and ride the monkey bars and but your feet never touch

00:14:08the ground you've got to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say dude i blew my life

00:14:13up

00:14:18like do you feel that yeah uh i think like i hear no room i hear no remorse no like

00:14:27yeah yeah well

00:14:29no i i think it's it's one of those that i'm trying to you know obviously i haven't let

00:14:37many people if anybody know about this situation you know so obviously i've only ever had

00:14:42my opinions weigh on it and so having you know an outside source weigh in on it is obviously

00:14:49beneficial but it's also making me hear things that i haven't heard obviously things that were are

00:14:56accurate but i haven't heard because i'm not telling myself those okay you need to

00:15:05after this call everyone like everyone likes to think that obviously there's

00:15:09a good way to land you know every plane in life obviously so you know i think i have been

00:15:16caught up

00:15:18trying to figure out if it's or if it's possible to land it versus actually realizing that it's not

00:15:27what you're trying to do is to convince yourself that if this is actually love or this is actually

00:15:34viable these feelings and the excitement of sleeping with somebody that's not your wife

00:15:40which dude i don't i don't i don't begrudge you that one bit you probably feel alive every time you

00:15:45sneak away every time you almost get caught and you don't it does it won't surprise me at all if

00:15:52you

00:15:52felt dead in your own skin for the last five six seven years however long you've been with her i

00:15:56get

00:15:56that but you're trying to convince yourself that these feelings are somehow valid in the grand scheme

00:16:05of the cosmos and that it will justify destroying your wife's life and destroying the life of your buddy

00:16:17and so two things love is not a feeling it's a choice you make every single day

00:16:25it's a decision and a marriage is a choice that two people make every single day of their life man

00:16:34and so whatever happens with this other person you all have to choose that every single day

00:16:39right except that choice is going to be anchored into styrofoam because you know

00:16:44oh she's capable of blowing this whole thing up at any time and i am too and she'll know that

00:16:49about you

00:16:52that's why statistically speaking it's very unlikely that it continues

00:16:56but again it's part of this psychological construct you're trying to build

00:17:02like your plane is going down and you're trying to like figure out the right way to pull the cushions

00:17:08off of the the airplane seats so you land comfortably it's not going to happen so what i'll tell you

00:17:17is

00:17:17at the end of this thing there's a fire you can do a control burn right now and try

00:17:23or you can just wait till the whole thing goes up in smoke but it's going to catch fire it's

00:17:27already on fire

00:17:33yeah i think i've just i spent too much time dancing around and trying to figuring out how to

00:17:40make the fire as small as possible when in reality the focus should be on that the fire is happening

00:17:46regardless and i need you to internalize in your guts your house has already burned to the ground hers too

00:17:57they're gone they're gone they're over

00:18:02the marriage you had is over the marriage she had is over the little plate time y'all have together

00:18:11is over

00:18:14y'all have to decide what we're going to build next

00:18:18but bro you've got to come back and re-anchor to ground man

00:18:23you've blown your life up and you've blown her life up

00:18:29and she's blown her life up

00:18:35so i mean i i don't know a way that you're gonna sleep all night i don't know a way

00:18:39that you're gonna

00:18:39have peace at all until you sit down and have a conversation with your wife until you let her

00:18:46know you got 24 hours and i gotta come clean with my buddy because i'm not going to be this

00:18:50guy anymore

00:18:52and there's a high statistical probability that when the smoke clears you've got nobody you got no

00:18:59friend you've got no girlfriend you've got no wife that's a high high probability

00:19:07and then you'll have to choose to do the next right thing amid that ash

00:19:12but man stop with the verbal gymnastics stop with the are these feelings real but start with

00:19:20i've cheated on you and i blew our life up i've been doing it for almost a year now

00:19:25through the holidays through your birthdays i i was seeing somebody else i was sleeping with our friend

00:19:35let's start there we'll be right back

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00:22:54join delete me dot com slash deloney all right let's go out to greenville south carolina and talk to

00:23:02ashley hey ashley what's up hi dr john how's it going it's going good um i'm a huge fan i

00:23:10found your

00:23:11show a couple months ago and uh it helped me through some things that i didn't even know i needed

00:23:17help

00:23:17well i appreciate you being with us man that means the world to me thank you what's up so my

00:23:24question um

00:23:26is basically how do i set some boundaries with my in-laws and have them respect the grandparent

00:23:33role or is this a me problem and if so how do i work through it

00:23:40oh man

00:23:43well i guess my initial question is like where's your husband in all this

00:23:48um he is on my side he's a coward i'll say it for you he's a complete and total coward

00:23:58i think i think he he tends to be like be a complete total coward either i don't think that

00:24:05any of any of their behavior is malicious um and i think that he looks at it in a different

00:24:12light than

00:24:13maybe i do and i don't know if it's just because um maybe his parents just feel like they are

00:24:19able to

00:24:20be way way way more involved than and whereas my parents are involved but they kind of take a step

00:24:25back and let us do our own thing and only give advice or recommendations so if you could if you

00:24:32if

00:24:32you could wave a magic wand what behaviors would you want your in-laws to stop doing undermining my

00:24:40parental decisions give me an example um for instance uh around christmas time um we were

00:24:49trying to lay our one-year-old down for a nap he was very over stimulated with you know just

00:24:54the

00:24:54holidays the people the gifts everything um and just trying to give him a little bit of quiet time

00:25:00away because it was you know he it was about nap time it was time you don't have to justify

00:25:06it one

00:25:06need naps it's perfect it for sure for sure and you know um went to go get him quiet walked

00:25:13out of

00:25:13the room to go make him a bottle turned around to go back in and uh one of my in

00:25:20-laws you know went in

00:25:21and picked him up and said i didn't want to hear him crying it's christmas and you know i'll take

00:25:26care

00:25:26of him and brought him right back out and just kind of you know undermined us in front of the

00:25:31entire

00:25:32family of no we're going to take control and we're going to handle this so did you had you slipped

00:25:37out

00:25:37of the room quietly like you kind of nodded at your husband like i'm gonna go put him down or

00:25:40did you

00:25:41make an announcement to everybody nap time make an announcement i said okay i think it's time for

00:25:46someone to have a little bit of quiet time okay um i mean there have been there have been countless

00:25:56other

00:25:56situations and you know trying to you know take control of well you know when he's when it's time

00:26:03for school you know and it's time for him to go to school he's two now so we've got a

00:26:08couple of years

00:26:08um but requesting that they are the ones to homeschool him um where in my head no he needs to

00:26:17go to school

00:26:17and he needs to be around you know other kids and if i do decide to homeschool him that will

00:26:23be me doing

00:26:24that but why why wouldn't you and or your husband especially your husband say no you're not homeschooling

00:26:30kid thank you for the offer but now we're gonna send him to regular school and just let that be

00:26:33a

00:26:33period at the end of that sentence i in a way did but i probably didn't do it as effectively

00:26:41um i probably left the door a little bit like oh yeah we'll see i think again when when my

00:26:49parents

00:26:51are making statements about what they are quote unquote gonna do or not do

00:26:55so my job is their kid i believe and i've got some colleagues that disagree with me that's fine

00:27:02but i need to tell my mom and my dad hey yeah we're not doing that with with with with

00:27:07a definitive

00:27:08answer and if i if i'm like if i tell my wife like hey you tell my mom that that's

00:27:13because i'm a coward if

00:27:14i do that yeah and see and i think like for instance there have been several times that you

00:27:20know i've shut my parents down and said this is a boundary you know do not cross it because you're

00:27:25an adult i have no problem doing that but i feel different doing it to his parents you should because

00:27:31it's his parents he needs to do it he's got it you're married to a coward why won't he stand

00:27:35up to his

00:27:35parents and i know i don't want to talk about the childhood dynamic honestly i think that's what it is

00:27:43okay so here's the thing you somehow have in your soul kind of a peeper a people pleaser like you

00:27:50want to make sure everybody else is okay for sure and at the same time you've got some pretty clear

00:27:55thing pictures of what you want your life to be like and what you want for your kid and what

00:27:58you

00:27:59want for you and for your marriage etc i want you to practice writing those things down and saying them

00:28:05out loud not like it's time for some quiet time it is all right i'm gonna go put him down

00:28:13or her down

00:28:14for a nap everybody wave goodbye we will see y'all again in an hour and a half

00:28:21yeah because then it's like well i'm gonna do some quiet time

00:28:24that kind of leaves it open to well i mean i'll hold them if you're tired of holding them

00:28:31but like i'm gonna go take a nap or well we're gonna be home we're doing the homeschooling for

00:28:36this but no doubt we're sending them to this elementary school we've already decided that

00:28:41well i don't think that's a good idea i i'm great i appreciate that but you don't get a vote

00:28:45because

00:28:45it's my kid so we're gonna send him over there and that's for your that's your husband's conversation

00:28:51to have and and comically what i would say is like a nonchalant way like i don't even know i

00:28:57don't even know if he needs to write unless you're unless your in-laws take it to the next level

00:29:01no great kid of mine's going to a school all right well then we're gonna have a serious

00:29:05conversation about whose kid this actually is yeah and see so my um my husband is a first responder

00:29:13okay so he well then he's not a coward stop me there then i'm talking all bad he's not a

00:29:18coward

00:29:19yeah no but he so he works a lot um typically he he works at two different departments so he

00:29:27works

00:29:27um 48 hours on 24 hours off okay um we're blessed enough that you know they live close

00:29:34um and they take care of watching him um on the days that you know i'm i'm working and he's

00:29:42not home

00:29:43um so i and that's been it's been that way since you know basically since he was born i returned

00:29:49back

00:29:49to work so they do have a lot of access to him okay but also they have something else they

00:29:55also have

00:29:55something else this is an important distinction in many ways you've put them in a parental role

00:30:02several days a week and if there's not caretaker boundaries so for instance if let's pretend they

00:30:10were out of the picture and you're not coward husband goes to like save the the city he's in

00:30:19right like he does every day and you go off to work if you had hired a teenager to take

00:30:23care of

00:30:24your kid you would have printed out on a word document nap schedule food schedule feeding schedule

00:30:31no screens playing here's how you text me etc but when it comes to in-laws or aunts or uncles

00:30:38it's very

00:30:38easy just to drop the kid off for sure and then they raise that kid like they would raise a

00:30:45kid

00:30:46mm-hmm and then really quickly over time it becomes our kid mm-hmm and it's we're all raising

00:30:53one big happy family raising this kid and so really the the thing here is is you need to be

00:31:00pretty direct

00:31:01your husband needs to be pretty direct well y'all need to get aligned first of all yeah and he

00:31:06might

00:31:07say actually i think it'd be awesome if my parents homeschool him well then that's the conversation you

00:31:12all need to have mm-hmm right and then i think you'll need to come back and circle back and

00:31:17say

00:31:18here is our caretaker expectations this is going to be different we're trying to we're getting my new

00:31:23schedule and then because again you you guys also want the best of both worlds you want them to do

00:31:29it

00:31:29exactly as you want to do it but you want free child care a couple days a week too for

00:31:34sure and so

00:31:35sometimes these boundaries cost you like financially when you're when your in-laws say well screw you

00:31:40then no young kids are going to lecture us on how to raise a baby right and that happens yeah

00:31:45i hope

00:31:47well and i know we've been looking into possibly doing um like a preschool program a couple days a

00:31:53week you know morning time um from like eight eight to twelve or eight to one or something like that

00:31:59and i know i i've mentioned it and there was kind of like this like no like we we love

00:32:06having him

00:32:07and you know but i i think it's beneficial for especially he hasn't been around other kids like

00:32:13in a daycare type of setting like i think it's important for his own you know emotional development

00:32:19to be around other kids then you know i i think that that kind of got overlooked in the in

00:32:25the fact of

00:32:26but wait no we want him like yeah oh yeah yeah yeah i guess i just like socially like if

00:32:36if a young

00:32:36child is surrounded by uh sturdy regulated caring adults their socialization is gonna be fine

00:32:45yeah right they're gonna be fine that's often a a proxy for i don't want to deal with this situation

00:32:54so

00:32:55i want to i just want to run other kids because if you want to run other kids you can

00:32:59set up play dates

00:32:59you can have kids over all the time you can have kids over on saturdays i mean you can make

00:33:03that happen

00:33:06i think that you're trying to avoid the harder conversations yeah and i guess for me

00:33:15that's a skill i want you to have because you walk around on eggshells in your own house

00:33:23yeah

00:33:24and i just think you deserve more than that

00:33:29and your husband sounds like he's a like he's a gangster man he shows up for the

00:33:33least of these in our communities day in and day out i don't want him walking around eggshells in

00:33:36his own house either yeah and i think i think he feels a lot of you know i think it

00:33:43goes back to

00:33:44his childhood not really being able to properly voice how he feels that's fair that's fair him and i have

00:33:51worked through that you know within our relationship and we've gotten to a good place with it but

00:33:55i know there's still that that wall up when it comes to how to talk to his own parents

00:34:02um i get that and it's with difficult conversations typically i mean yeah so i i think often the

00:34:11conversation about um protect and provide he's an amazing protector and amazing provider and i think

00:34:17you need to have the conversation the next level that says hey right now providing for us is less

00:34:24economic it is family boundaries protection for us right now is less about can you fight and can you

00:34:32handle a gun and can you put out a fire protection is more i want what we want for our

00:34:38kid voiced to

00:34:39everybody whether it's a teacher whether it's a caretaker whether it's our in-laws i want that i want

00:34:45that universal that's what protection looks like right now protecting our son's heart and mind

00:34:52and when you frame it that way um often it sinks in a little bit differently

00:35:00do you know what i'm saying yeah for sure because here's i think i think at the end of the

00:35:05day i think your frustration is with him not with your in-laws that's fair that's that's that's very

00:35:12fair and if your frustration is with him i think he has a right to know that you're this frustrated

00:35:17with him yeah is that fair absolutely okay and can i tell you something else yeah y'all aren't crazy

00:35:27you're not crazy he's not crazy this isn't like a unique thing it happens to everybody

00:35:32good to know it just sucks like you're not broken your family's not falling apart nothing like that

00:35:36this is just the worst yeah and here's what makes it even extra worse is probably your in-laws are

00:35:41pretty great oh they they 100 are they're just doing the best they can with what they got because

00:35:46they don't have that printed off piece of paper in front of them absolutely absolutely yeah i i like

00:35:52i said i know that they're you know anything that they do it's not malicious at all we're so grateful

00:35:58and i'm so grateful for everything with them you know but i'm just trying to figure out that

00:36:05healthy healthy boundary and i think i think you got got it spot on well and the healthy boundary i

00:36:12think for you is i think you need to define that for yourself and here's what's annoying it won't

00:36:17feel a certain way do you know what i'm saying like you think there's gonna come a moment when it

00:36:21feels

00:36:22so good or feels so peace it's just that feeling is just gonna morph and move because your kid's

00:36:28gonna turn four and you're gonna want to put him down for a nap and then it'll be like they

00:36:30don't

00:36:30need a nap he's four let's go out with and then it's or your husband's gonna have a picture of

00:36:38what it looks like on saturday you're gonna have a different picture of what it looks like so

00:36:41like it's just a common thing happens all the time you'll aren't broken but i think it's being

00:36:46honest about hey husband we've worked so hard on us talking to each other this is the next layer

00:36:55absolutely and i feel like it's your responsibility to help lead the charge with your parents and vice

00:36:59versa and so y'all get out on the table because he might say i love the idea of my

00:37:03parents being the

00:37:05you know my my parents homeschooling i love it i love that idea and you might be like no way

00:37:10jose

00:37:11that's the conversation to have um then the boundary part just becomes y'all just saying i'm

00:37:16gonna bite the bullet we're gonna say our boundaries out loud and we're gonna hope that everybody

00:37:20respects them and we're gonna deal with it when they don't but thank you so much for the call

00:37:24you're not broken you're not failing your marriage is probably amazing like things are good

00:37:30this is just a common thing that comes up in a high majority of first-time parents second-time

00:37:37parents whatever and it's just deciding what do we want for our kid and how do we develop the

00:37:42courage to communicate that to everybody thanks for the call we'll be right back

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00:39:08all right we're back let's go out to san diego california and talk to crystal hey crystal what's

00:39:13up hello how are you remarkable how are you i'm doing fantastic so definitely can't complain

00:39:21um okay john so here's my question for you i'm a 27 year old female and my partner is 30

00:39:29and i

00:39:30am obviously having conversations with him moving forward in marriage having children

00:39:35but the biggest thing i have going on for myself right now is how do i make my partner feel

00:39:41respected

00:39:41and fulfilled in our relationship

00:39:46oh man there's there's a lot of tentacles to that question be more specific

00:39:50so something happened something happened for you to call why would you call yes

00:39:55so we are in a time where everything in our day-to-day will be good and we have

00:40:02a conversation that will come up or some sort of disagreement slash argument and it really just like

00:40:09ask like really escalates to you know zero to a hundred and it just leaves me kind of feeling in

00:40:17turmoil and in those conversations you know my partner i just feel like he keeps referencing that he

00:40:23doesn't feel heard he doesn't feel respected um in the way that i communicate um and so i think just

00:40:30because i keep hearing those words of not being heard not feeling respected i don't really know where

00:40:35to turn um and you know what to work on you know because those conversations are always coming up in

00:40:42a

00:40:42time of a flare-up quote-unquote to say do you respect him i do and everything he does from

00:40:51work to how

00:40:51he treats people i mean i feel that i rave about him those are external those are external things

00:40:57those are external things those are certificates on the wall do you respect the man he is i do does

00:41:06he make you feel safe when he walks into a room yes when he sees you do you feel loved

00:41:10yes okay

00:41:14so when you say um how can i best love you what does he say what are some actions that

00:41:23he has put

00:41:23on the table before when he said i don't feel heard or respected and then he says this is how

00:41:29i would feel

00:41:29heard this is how i would feel respected what are some of the things he's put on the table

00:41:35to be up front and to just speak very black and white and if you know i want something

00:41:43um to just blatantly say it and that's just how his brain works and i feel that you know i

00:41:51maybe try to protect myself to protect him and so i try to say it and you know advancing neutral

00:41:58party

00:41:58type of way and we just you know dance around in conversation every all the time so what why

00:42:05why don't you feel safe enough going back to my original question you said when he walks in a room

00:42:09your body feels safe why can't you just say what you need or what you want

00:42:18i'm a little nervous that he'll be upset with me even though my brain knows that he won't be

00:42:25there's just something that it's just i have such a hard time just letting it out do you have an

00:42:31example of a time you've told him just directly in the truth in a loving compassionate way and he

00:42:36has exploded on you or run from you no i mean that's i that's i it's this internal and i've

00:42:45noticed

00:42:46that ever since he's pointed that out that i do that in a lot of areas in my life i

00:42:51was going to ask

00:42:51like where else do you hide from him what do you mean by by hide from him you know like

00:43:01what are

00:43:02things going on in your mind that he doesn't know about um i would just say there's just some anxiety

00:43:14there i know that's what i'm asking what is that

00:43:19or let me let me ask it another way why is your body through feelings through anxiousness

00:43:26through holding biting your tongue through talking in circles

00:43:31those are all ways your body's trying to keep you safe

00:43:35why is your body decided that you being seen and heard is not safe

00:43:45that's a good question um because here's what i think is happening i think he is

00:43:51probably pretty direct probably like hey just tell me what you need so i can love you

00:43:56and you make these big laps around the building and he's like what and then it feels frustrating and

00:44:02then it feels deceptive and then he goes to bed every night feeling like he doesn't really know you

00:44:10and you feel that gap

00:44:14and every time you try to bridge that gap your body electrocutes you and it's like no no no no

00:44:18don't get that close

00:44:22right yeah i think you definitely hit the nail on the head for sure so let me ask so let

00:44:28me ask you why

00:44:31um i think over time maybe that when we've been pushed into those conversations and moments of zero

00:44:39to 100 that it's either like do i need to you know leave and do we need to take a

00:44:44break so i feel that

00:44:46over time because those conversations have alluded to that from him or from you

00:44:54from both i would say my majority myself and i feel that i put myself in this place

00:45:00so when you get in one of those situations where you're going zero to 100 you explode on him or

00:45:04do

00:45:04you build a quick concrete fortress and hide fortress and hide i'm a i shut down in conversations okay

00:45:17and so at some point does he find himself inadvertently banging on the door to try to get in

00:45:23um i definitely wouldn't say to that degree like even in those conversations we both try to

00:45:29have respect for one another um and to never raise your voice and things like that's not respect

00:45:34that's not respect you'll try to be polite okay and you'll try to be polite so that if something goes

00:45:41wrong both of y'all can say i didn't do fill in the blank i didn't yell i didn't hit

00:45:45anybody i didn't

00:45:46punch a hole through the concrete i didn't i didn't i didn't and so it's two teams playing

00:45:51football and both feel sent your defense out and nobody will hike the ball

00:45:59yeah and then one of one of you just gets so mad like let's play ball and there's like well

00:46:04you know

00:46:04and then like i get and then and then it's like i just i want to go i want to

00:46:11go be with somebody

00:46:11who will play offense yeah and i want to go be able to play offense sometimes so circling all the

00:46:18way back take him off the table i want to talk to you who told you the safest thing for

00:46:25you to do

00:46:25is just to be quiet i always grew i grew up that way and it was a very unless you're

00:46:33spoken to

00:46:35you know you don't really say what you need to say um so yeah i think i just i've always

00:46:44grown up with

00:46:45especially you know from my father that was his big you know unless you're spoken to

00:46:51you your opinion doesn't really matter so have you heard have you heard me say on the show um

00:46:57the things that kept you safe as a kid will destroy your adult relationships

00:47:02yeah that's definitely where i'm at right now okay so here's it's really a binary choice

00:47:08you continue running on the same roads that were built out of out of safety and necessity as a kid

00:47:16and you can run on those roads and you will not die you'll stay alive and you'll be alone

00:47:24and you might be alone sharing a bed with somebody that says i do and that i love you

00:47:30but that gap will always exist

00:47:35or you have to choose to do something that feels initially unsafe and unnatural with somebody that

00:47:41you know to be safe okay and that means you have to go into a season of practicing discomfort

00:47:55okay does that make sense because because here's here's what i man

00:48:03the walls you built will affect your finances it will affect you professionally it will affect your sex life

00:48:10it will keep everything you'll never be able to fully let go

00:48:16yeah that's it's funny you say that too because that's something that i hear you know from him of

00:48:21like you know i feel that you've built up this brick wall and you know how are you supposed to

00:48:27let me in

00:48:28and like you said even in the bedroom so many different areas um that he's this person is showing

00:48:34up and this person is every day like i let me be there for you let me be there for

00:48:38you and i just

00:48:40cannot let me rephrase that because i can i need to let those walls down because you are right and

00:48:47it is

00:48:49impacting my life in so many other ways i need you to not let those walls down i want you

00:48:53to try

00:48:54courageously to bash through them

00:48:57because letting the walls down is still a passive stance

00:49:02it mimics bravery i guess that's not fair it it is it is initially brave that first step

00:49:11but i just want you to think of it like you come home and you see this man do you

00:49:15love this guy

00:49:16yes oh my gosh like and is he a good moment we met yes see a good guy oh that

00:49:22moment we met let's

00:49:23like dawson's creek but like you've grown to love this person right yes okay and he does the things he

00:49:29shows up always okay so you've got this person that you see that you love that you've probably

00:49:37thought about making plans with down the road right and you'd be crazy if you haven't had that imaginary

00:49:43picture pop into your head of a fireplace and a thanksgiving table and your four boys home from

00:49:49christmas and their girlfriends that you hate but kind of love right yes and if you have a picture of

00:49:56an older wrinklier grayer version of this guy at the end of that tape right so you have been there

00:50:02and you come home and he sees you and everything in his world lights up

00:50:08but there's a sheet of plexiglass in between you and he just can't touch you yeah

00:50:20exactly and the same with your customers to say i don't know what you do for a living but the

00:50:23same

00:50:24with your bosses yeah it's it's very true and i work with you know i'm my boss's right hand gal

00:50:32um and that is a topic that we have talked about of you know i feel like we work together

00:50:3624 7 but

00:50:37i don't really let you know he has no idea who you are victoria is yes right that's right

00:50:44yeah and and if we were in a different call i would ask you about your sex life and i

00:50:48can almost

00:50:48guarantee it i can pinpoint where you struggle yeah fair for sure okay yeah

00:50:55so here's the thing you have to make a choice that i'm going to be seen and i'm going to

00:51:02be known

00:51:04but it's not something you can lob on him that's a decision you have to make

00:51:12and you're going to have to practice a thing that i like where you put your hand on your chest

00:51:17or put

00:51:18your fist in your chest and you have to look in the mirror 10 times a day for 30 days

00:51:23you want

00:51:23homework assignment will you actually do it 100 yes for 30 days from today i want you to go look

00:51:30in the mirror and put your fist in your chest and look yourself dead in the eyes and say i

00:51:35love this

00:51:36girl and i want you to pause i want you to drop your shoulders and i want you to say

00:51:43it again i love this

00:51:44girl

00:51:48i can do that and i want you to say well hold on i'm not done i want you to

00:51:51say it 10 times

00:51:53and then i want you to say she deserves to be heard

00:52:02and then you got to go get weird and you're gonna have to tell i'm gonna here's what i'm gonna

00:52:05send

00:52:06you i'm gonna send you and it's gonna sound pedantic it's gonna sound silly okay what i'm

00:52:11gonna send you but i'm gonna mail you all of the questions for humans cards for free for couples

00:52:15and the intimacy deck okay but here's what i want you to do they're they're not complicated

00:52:23but you have to commit to telling the truth

00:52:27and so like the intimacy deck when it says what's one thing you really used to be into in

00:52:31the bedroom and you're not anymore you have to actually answer that

00:52:36what's our favorite memory of us kissing before

00:52:41what's your least favorite memory of us because like you got to be honest yeah

00:52:47and you need to have a series where you meet once a week with him and you say all right

00:52:51here's three

00:52:51things that scared me this week and here's three things that i thought were incredible about this

00:52:54week

00:52:57okay you've got to practice being seen and known and then y'all just need to come up with some

00:53:02sort of

00:53:03signal like i'm flooded i'm too much i'm gonna back up and he's gonna say okay cool because

00:53:08you're just all you're doing is practicing you're practicing a thing that got you electrocuted as a

00:53:13kid by the one man who you should have been able to anchor into for your entire life your dad

00:53:19and he weaponized your feelings your emotions he weaponized your personhood

00:53:24and said your personhood is mine and when i want to see it i'll let you know

00:53:30yeah instead of celebrating the crazy bananas wild little san diego girl you were growing up

00:53:37yeah i i could not agree more and i think you know again that we are in this period of

00:53:43our

00:53:43relationship of and you know he wants to so badly propose and he's talked about it and he just needs

00:53:50the utmost confidence in myself and i feel that i do as well um and because you know we've both

00:53:57gone through families of divorce and all of these things and so if we can have those hard

00:54:04conversations and put in the work now to give our future children a childhood and you know all of

00:54:10those healthy kind of relationships like 100 this has just been so helpful and if this can get me

00:54:17there like i don't know this is the best phone call ever well it's it's it's kind of like i

00:54:23just

00:54:23handed you a workout plan so for the next year you need to go lift weights yeah like the work

00:54:28is yours

00:54:29are you willing to for the first time in your life how old are you 27 okay are you for

00:54:35the first time

00:54:36in a quarter century are you willing to practice being seen and heard because here's the other side of

00:54:42being seen and heard he might look at you and say yeesh i don't want to propose and that will

00:54:47not make

00:54:48what you did wrong that won't make you wrong that will mean you've been giving a pretty remarkable

00:54:56theater performance to be his girlfriend

00:55:03yeah and hopefully my fingers crossed because i'm a romantic just kind of an oogie googie romantic

00:55:09i hope that he sees you and gets to know you like i don't like that or i love that

00:55:18and by the way

00:55:19i've been married for gosh 22 and a half years now i found out my wife said something the other

00:55:24day and

00:55:24i looked at her and i started laughing i was like i don't know you you what like i had

00:55:29no idea but can

00:55:30i tell you that's my freaking favorite part i found out something the other night about one of her

00:55:35old boyfriends and her i did not know i didn't know but here's the thing it made me die laughing

00:55:41i started dying laughing because here's why she's not going anywhere and i'm not either

00:55:50you get what i'm saying 100 and so it it when you grow up in homes of divorce

00:55:57i just saw this recently i love it when you grow up in a home of divorce

00:56:00you realize oh they could somebody could leave that's a thing you can just leave

00:56:06and so what you do is you try really hard not to let the other person leave

00:56:12and that almost guarantees at some point they don't know you and leaving is still on the table

00:56:20the other side of that interesting perspective the other side of it is i'm going to be fully seen and

00:56:24known and we're going to become braided together like a like one of those ocean ropes that nobody

00:56:31can pull apart right it's awesome so let's call this what it is it's day one some of this may

00:56:39be

00:56:39hard so it may be that y'all start a journal together that you put on his pillow at night

00:56:43that he writes in then he puts it on your pillow the next morning or whatever and some of these

00:56:47things

00:56:47are easier done via letter some of these things are hard just to sit down and just say it in

00:56:52front of

00:56:52somebody like here's what i think about this and i don't like this and i want to get to know

00:56:54you here

00:56:56but some of it is we're just going to stop going to fancy restaurants and pretending like everything's

00:57:00okay we're going to go to crummy restaurants and just chit chat and you can chit chat nice restaurants

00:57:06but it's just a vibe i don't get to know you here's one thing that i asked my wife to

00:57:12do last year

00:57:13make me a syllabus of you what are the 10 podcasts you listen to i don't know what you listen

00:57:17to

00:57:17anymore what are 10 bands you like um i know what you used to like i don't know what you

00:57:21even listen

00:57:21to anymore what are 10 books you want me to read that you read not you want me to that

00:57:25you read

00:57:25that you love because i want to get to know you i might read those books some of those books

00:57:30i've

00:57:30gotten into did not like them a couple of them i've loved podcasts one podcast i i was listening

00:57:36to and i was like i know her like you want to meet her like i was a friend of

00:57:40mine she didn't even

00:57:40know we were connected so all i have to say is let's get to know each other here's books i

00:57:45like

00:57:45here's movies i like here's music i love i'd love to learn to dance i'd love to learn to sing

00:57:50i'd love to

00:57:51just learn to let go

00:57:56and this happens inside your chest i'm proud of crystal day one you love that girl she's worth

00:58:04being hurt we'll be right back let's talk about train well an amazing personal trainer and app all

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00:59:34that's t-r-a-i-n-w-e-l-l trainwell.net slash deloney all right we're back something cool

00:59:43happened what is

00:59:44it kelly all right this is from i'm hoping i'm pronouncing her name correctly myrta myrta yes all

00:59:51right she says we are family of five with three teens dinner time has always been a priority in our

00:59:56family ever since the kids were little i always made dinner together happen now that the kids are older

01:00:02with jobs and high school and activities it's nearly impossible to have everyone together at home

01:00:07at one time i've had to grieve that a little bit it was hard to let go of it however

01:00:12i decided to

01:00:13replace dinner time with questions for humans parents and teen cards i gather the family around nine

01:00:18o'clock as many times as a week as i can and we do a few cards when i first

01:00:23brought up the idea the

01:00:24teens rolled their eyes and rolled their eyes at me and gave me the bruh why i'm assuming she has

01:00:29sons because i've heard that my husband was skeptical let me tell you it has been amazing

01:00:35better than i expected it's not about the questions on the card it's the fact that each person has a

01:00:40space to talk a chance to express idea an idea or dream there are no wrong answers except a shrug

01:00:48or an

01:00:48i don't know i've learned new things about my family it has started conversations that otherwise would

01:00:53never have happened it has brought about admittance admittance to failures or dreams

01:00:59we just finished the deck a few nights ago and my husband has already asked if there's a second

01:01:03edition oh yeah dude that's awesome so hey here's what i love we grieved it the thing that was is

01:01:09no

01:01:09more just because of time and circumstance but i'm not going to give up on it i'm going to create

01:01:14a new

01:01:15thing and it's going to look different and it's amazing yeah because sometimes when you stick so

01:01:21legal well you're so legalistic about this thing that we do and you grasp onto it so tight

01:01:27you lose it anyway because you're forcing it to happen and yet if you want your kids to have jobs

01:01:33like you know my son works two nights a week they're going to be gone right and they have lives

01:01:37this is

01:01:38what's supposed to be happening they're supposed to be that kind of peeling away a bit but she just

01:01:41found a different different way to make it work and and i think it's important to push through

01:01:46teenagers i don't want to or i don't feel like it those are just soft squishy boundaries that they

01:01:52want to see do you like when you punch right through that right and then like in this case

01:01:57they end up loving it of course it's very important and it feels good in their nervous system

01:02:00right and all kids love hearing i told my son some like i will go back to one of the

01:02:07greatest things i've

01:02:08ever did was driving from nashville to texas just because i flying now is kind of chaotic for me and

01:02:17i lost my pre-check because i'm an idiot and so like the thought of of doing that during christmas

01:02:22so my son and i just drove to texas 12 hours one way drove all across the state visiting family

01:02:27and

01:02:27friends then we drove 12 hours back he learned some stuff i i he asked me questions about childhood and

01:02:33stories and i told him stories that he could not believe but we got to know each other and vice

01:02:39versa i got to hear his thoughts but it was just amazing never would have got there never got there

01:02:44so good call way to go god i don't know that just cheers me up those little questions for humans

01:02:50cards

01:02:50man all over the country people are changing their lives thread thanks for being with us stay in school

01:02:54don't do drugs bye

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