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Who Do You Think You Are Au S17E05 engsub fullepisode⚡️
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00:11I like to say I'm a life enthusiast. I am not risk-averse. When I get an idea and
00:23that it might be a bit dangerous or risky or scary, that's when I know I have to do it.
00:30In 2003, when Chrissie Swan boldly appeared on Big Brother, it shot her to fame.
00:38Amazing! Since then, Chrissie has built a career on her gutsy, relatable personality, entertaining
00:46audiences in a swathe of TV shows. Please stay away from my dressing room. And now hosting
00:53her own radio program. Let's move on to an am I the bad person question.
00:59I'll just talk about anything. I've got nothing to be ashamed of. I'll talk about
01:03it all. He's only got one trick, but I like the trick. Good trick!
01:10Having recently turned 50, Chrissie's keen to shake her family tree in the hope of finding
01:16like-minded ancestors. I don't really know where my rebellious side came from. I don't
01:26have any stories from my family that make me go, I do that too. I'm the same. Imagine if
01:37they looked like me. That'd be amazing. On a quest for stories of her own. Oh my god, I've
01:45been dying for this. That's extraordinary. Chrissie makes a shock discovery. What? Delights
01:57in echoes from the past. Oh, look at the showbiz in the middle. She looks like my daughter so
02:04much. Anne confronts profound tragedy. We don't talk about this one.
02:10you?AH
02:56Media personality Chrissie Swan
02:58lives in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne
03:00with her three teenage children.
03:04I've always felt like I have got an abundance of love
03:07and ever since a young age,
03:10I've had to find vessels to put it into.
03:14I used to give it to pets and then I got to school
03:18and I gave it to my friends and then I had kids
03:22and I was just like, oh, my God, I get it.
03:25It's like the best pet in the world.
03:31They're charming and they're funny
03:33and they teach you stuff that you didn't know.
03:37It's just the biggest adventure of my life.
03:41I do believe personality traits are passed
03:44down from generation to generation.
03:47I can see very clear little bursts of my dad
03:54or a look or a mindset
03:57and it feels like a little dip from beyond.
04:03Hi.
04:05Good, how are you?
04:07Chrissie was born in Melbourne in 1973,
04:10the third and youngest child of Gary Swan
04:13and Patricia O'Malley.
04:17Because I was so much younger than my sisters,
04:20I almost had like an only child experience.
04:23I was just left to my own devices in the kitchen
04:26and I could have a crack at a carrot cake if I wanted.
04:29It was great.
04:31I had my little brother AX10 typewriter
04:34and I would write stories.
04:36By the time Chrissie was six,
04:38her parents had separated.
04:40I don't really remember living with my dad.
04:43I was always just with, you know, my mum,
04:46so I had this whole single mum thing.
04:50Mum and I were very, very close.
04:52She was very busy.
04:54She was working several jobs to keep us all happening.
04:59I only knew one grandparent, my mum's mum, Reet.
05:05She was just so wonderful
05:07and chose to remain single after becoming a widow.
05:11There was a little bit of sass about her, actually.
05:15Harry, have you seen these?
05:17Although Chrissie knew her maternal grandmother well,
05:20she knows very little further back
05:22on her mother's side of the family.
05:28Maybe there's stories that are too sad
05:33or too awful or too shameful to share.
05:40But they're the good ones.
05:47Keen to delve into her maternal family history,
05:50Chrissie's visiting her mother, Pat Swan,
05:53who lives close by in Melbourne.
05:55Hi, Patty.
05:56Oh, hi, darling.
05:59Come on.
05:59Over.
06:01Hi.
06:02You're up early.
06:03You're a bit of a lush.
06:05I know.
06:06I'm very early for me.
06:10Look at my little face.
06:12Isn't it precious?
06:13Look at it.
06:14Was I a sad child?
06:16I looked so sad in that photo.
06:18You weren't.
06:19I do look a bit like a boy.
06:21A bit?
06:22Well, you have no hair.
06:23Yeah.
06:24Oh, that's a lovely one, Mum.
06:26Look at that.
06:27Gran.
06:29She was a beauty.
06:31I just love that she did her own thing,
06:34lived on her own.
06:35Yes.
06:36She just danced to the beat of her own drum.
06:40So this is your dad?
06:42Yeah, that's Patty.
06:43Patty O'Malley.
06:44Mm.
06:44And what sort of dad was he?
06:46He was very funny.
06:48What did he do?
06:49I don't know.
06:51I mean, why would you?
06:53It's your father.
06:58Following her maternal line,
07:00Chrissie's grandparents were Rita Muriel Abbott
07:03and Kevin Innes O'Malley, known as Patty.
07:07Continuing back, her great-grandparents
07:10were John O'Malley and Cecilia Bond,
07:13who the family knew as Granny O'Malley.
07:19And this one is Granny O'Malley.
07:24Granny O'Malley married Mr. O'Malley?
07:28Yeah.
07:29John O'Malley.
07:30When I knew them, they had separated.
07:33Your grandparents had separated back then?
07:36Yeah.
07:36Yeah.
07:36And wow, that's modern.
07:38Why did they split up?
07:40I think she might have been a tough Catholic, I think.
07:44Granny's not.
07:44Is that an awful thing to say?
07:46Not at all.
07:47You know how they could be so difficult?
07:50About intimate things, maybe?
07:53She didn't want to have sex with him anyway.
07:55There couldn't have been something like that.
07:59She moved up to Queensland
08:01and then she worked cooking
08:04at, I think they used to call them, refreshment rooms.
08:08I just want to know what sort of woman
08:10lives the single's life in the 40s.
08:14Yeah.
08:16Why don't I have a little dig now?
08:18Why not?
08:20OK, here we go.
08:22Birth, marriage and death.
08:24Oh, gosh.
08:25The big three.
08:26It's get the glasses on for this.
08:28Do you know the year
08:30and where she might have been born?
08:341880.
08:35Go with that.
08:36Goulburn, maybe?
08:38Goulburn, New South Wales.
08:40Search.
08:42There it is.
08:431879.
08:44We were right, sort of.
08:46So her dad is a guy called Joseph Bond.
08:49Yeah, I've never heard of a Joseph.
08:52And her mum is Agnes Mary.
08:55Mary.
08:55Yeah.
08:56And then there's find a grave.
08:59Oh.
09:01Let's have a look at what was written on her.
09:04She didn't have a grave
09:06because she gave her body to the medical people.
09:12What?
09:13The ashes of members of the public
09:16who have generously donated their bodies
09:17to the University of Queensland
09:19for the advancement of medical science
09:21are interred in this section.
09:28She must have thought it was a good thing to do.
09:31I think that's a really hard thing to do.
09:35That shows that you're a really hard, tough person.
09:39So, Cecilia O'Malley, she sounds so fascinating.
09:43Yeah.
09:43Born in Goulburn.
09:44Mm-hm.
09:45I think that that is where I've got to go.
09:56Picking up the trail of her maternal family story,
09:59Chrissie has come to the New South Wales town of Goulburn
10:02on the Southern Tablelands.
10:06This is the traditional land of the Gundungurra
10:09and Ngunnawal people,
10:10who were largely displaced
10:11when European settlement began in the 1820s.
10:18It's very weird to be somewhere that I've never been before,
10:21but that is important to my family.
10:26Having identified a spirited streak
10:29in the women in her maternal line,
10:31Chrissie wants to know where it originates.
10:37Ooh.
10:38At Colonial-built Gugurra Gang House,
10:41Chrissie's meeting with local historian Jennifer Lamb.
10:44Here, see you, see you.
10:45Yes, I can sit down.
10:48And this is the first document that we want to show you.
10:52Mm-hm.
10:53So, here's you.
10:54Yep.
10:55Mother and your grandparents.
10:57And here's Cecilia.
10:59She's your great-grandmother.
11:01Who I knew as Granny O'Malley.
11:04Now, Cecilia was born here in the Goulburn District.
11:09But I want to take you even further back to Mary Whelan,
11:14who's your great-great-great-grandmother.
11:18Now, Mary was born in Ireland in 1815
11:23at a place called Perlis in Tipperary.
11:27Okay.
11:28And when she was 17, she married an Edmund Doran.
11:32And very soon, they had a son, Timothy.
11:36Then, unfortunately, three years later,
11:39Edmund died.
11:40We don't know why.
11:41So, she's left a widow with her four-year-old son, Timothy.
11:48Wow.
11:48Then, a year later, she became involved in a scheme
11:52that really changed the course of her life.
11:54And that was a bounty emigration scheme.
11:59The bounty emigration scheme was largely set up
12:02to address the gender imbalance among European settlers,
12:06which had been skewed by the male-heavy convict population.
12:13Many of the women who came were young and single
12:16and able to be employed as domestic servants.
12:20In the 1830s, 14 ships brought 2,700 women
12:25to the Australian colonies.
12:27One of these women was Chrissie's three-times-great-grandmother,
12:31Mary Whelan, who arrived in Sydney in 1838.
12:37Mary was 24.
12:39She was a laundress.
12:41Did she bring her four-year-old son with her?
12:44No, she couldn't.
12:46But the scheme did not cover the cost
12:49of children travelling with their mothers.
12:52So, she had to make the decision
12:55to leave Timothy behind with her mother
12:59and go to Australia.
13:01She's caught between a rock and a hard place, if you like,
13:04because if she stays back in Ireland,
13:07she's a widow, there's no government support.
13:10The only thing she could do was to go to a workhouse
13:13or go to a new country,
13:17then hopefully in the distant future bring Timothy with her.
13:20A terrible situation.
13:22Did she ever see him again?
13:25Well, we'll have to wait and see, won't we?
13:28Oh, what an awful decision to have to make.
13:32She arrived in Sydney and she went to work at Newtown,
13:39but within two months, we'll see that something's happened.
13:44She got married within two months.
13:49God, she wasn't mucking around, was she?
13:51She marries Joseph Ockenden.
13:54Joseph had come to Australia as a convict.
13:58He had received his Certificate of Freedom
14:01and he and Mary settled down in the Goulburn District.
14:05They had ultimately four daughters within about eight years.
14:11Four daughters in a row?
14:12Four daughters, yeah.
14:14Joseph was obviously a really good worker
14:16because he was given a block of land of 40 acres,
14:21which is not insubstantial.
14:23And in 1846, we have this document.
14:29Application for free passages for children.
14:33I, Mary Ockenden, a married bounty immigrant.
14:38Children's names, Timothy Doran, 12.
14:45Wow.
14:47So she's trying to bring him out to join her four girls?
14:53She had to explain as part of this why she'd left her child.
14:56Right.
14:58I was compelled to leave my child at home.
15:02Oh, that's so sad.
15:03I can't imagine.
15:05In consequence of being unable to pay his passage money.
15:15Oh, God, I came and read it.
15:19Did that work?
15:21We don't know what happened
15:25because the following year,
15:27her life then takes another turn
15:29because Joseph dies.
15:31So she's a widow again.
15:33Can we?
15:34Oh.
15:35So she's left on her own
15:39with four little daughters.
15:42What was she to do?
15:44And the answer came in the form of Charles Huggins.
15:49About 15 months later, she marries him.
15:53Charles and Mary were living near Braidwood.
15:56So what I really think is important to understand about Mary,
16:01she was a resilient woman,
16:03and I know we use that term a lot,
16:05but she just kept going.
16:07What an extraordinary woman.
16:09Yeah, isn't she?
16:10You know, it'd be lovely to see a picture of her,
16:13and I would imagine that you look a bit like her
16:14because, yeah, I think you're a bit tough too.
16:18I think I have a bit tough.
16:19I think we've got in common the, you know,
16:21when life gives you lemons.
16:23Yeah, that's right.
16:24You squeeze them.
16:30Impressed to have discovered another bold woman
16:32in her maternal family,
16:34Chrissie's following her three times great-grandmother's story
16:3785 kilometres south of Goulburn to Braidwood.
16:44I do want to know if Timothy ever made it to Australia
16:49and what happens next for Mary Whelan.
16:53Looking for answers,
16:54Chrissie has arranged to meet Peter Smith.
16:56Story, Peter.
16:57Let's get cracking.
16:58Come in.
16:59President of the Braidwood Historical Society.
17:03As you know, Mary and the family had settled on Charles' land.
17:09So in 1849, their first child was born.
17:14That was Ellen.
17:15Another girl.
17:16Another girl.
17:17Lots of girls in the family.
17:18Yeah, lots.
17:19And that time on,
17:20the family appeared to be doing rather well.
17:22Very, very enterprising.
17:24They bought lots of blocks of land.
17:25They actually accumulated something like 1,600 acres.
17:29Wow.
17:30So in 1850, we have some very exciting news.
17:34Okay.
17:35It's a passenger list from a ship called the Osprey.
17:39Have a look at the names of the passengers there
17:41and see if there's a name that you recognise.
17:43Oh, my God.
17:43I'm desperately seeking Timothy Doran, her son from Ireland.
17:49There he is.
17:51Timothy Doran.
17:53She got him out.
17:54She did.
17:54Oh.
17:54She did.
17:56How wonderful.
17:5916 when he arrived.
18:00Wow.
18:02That is brilliant.
18:03Oh, I'm so happy for her.
18:05Two years later, another daughter is born.
18:07Her name is Agnes.
18:09She's my girl.
18:10And she is your great, great grandmother.
18:13Great.
18:14So four years later, in 1856, there's a minor gold rush to the area.
18:19So Charles, being very enterprising, he supplied provisions.
18:24People coming to the gold fields would actually call in
18:27and be supplied with whatever they wanted.
18:29Like a Sanger, coffee on the go, that sort of thing?
18:32They were like a BP server.
18:34I don't think 7-Eleven had been in at that particular time.
18:37Well, maybe that was the start of it.
18:38But it was something like that.
18:40But as well as that, they also bought a hotel in Bradwood
18:43called the Horse and Jockey Inn, 150 metres down the road here.
18:47Wow.
18:48So everything's looking incredibly positive for Mary.
18:56Unfortunately, it doesn't exactly stay that way.
18:59Oh.
19:00In 1861, Timothy and Charles, they'd come to Bradwood.
19:05We speculate that they would have stayed at their own hotel.
19:08I want to show you this document so that you can see for yourself,
19:14in Mary's words, what happened.
19:17When Charles returned home.
19:20So this is from the Goulburn Herald, June 15, 1861.
19:25Shortly after coming in, he complained of a severe headache,
19:28which he said was caused by a blow.
19:31He had got on his head in Bradwood on the previous Thursday evening.
19:36God, what happened?
19:37Well, this is from the later court case
19:41where Mary is recounting what happened.
19:43OK.
19:44On awakening, he began to talk nonsense
19:46and continued to do so till a few hours before his death.
19:51When he came home on Saturday,
19:54he told me that my son by a former marriage
19:56named Timothy Doran was the person who struck him in Bradwood.
20:08So they've had a fight here.
20:12Timothy came into the pub.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Very drunk.
20:16Yeah.
20:16He then started to abuse his sister and Charles obviously stepped in
20:25and tried to take control of the situation.
20:28Timothy then picked up a jug and hit Charles on the side of the head.
20:35What a situation for Mary to be in after all that effort of getting her son to come out.
20:45In due course, Timothy was charged with the murder of his stepfather.
20:50Oh, my God.
20:52What a nightmare.
20:53He actually pleaded guilty of manslaughter.
20:57Mary came to his defence and said that Timothy and Charles generally got on fairly well.
21:05OK.
21:06Except when Timothy was drunk.
21:08Oh.
21:09Timothy was sentenced to 18 months, hard labour.
21:13Well, that's not too bad.
21:15It's a relatively light sentence.
21:17That's an unbelievable story.
21:19Isn't it?
21:20Yeah.
21:30What a story.
21:33So much happened.
21:37Mary Whelan, I think she's amazing and brave and really smart.
21:52So she's got seven children, an enormous property.
21:56She just would have been on cloud nine.
22:02Then turning into horror and despair when her son was responsible for the death of her husband.
22:11I wonder if she was a bit like me, though, and she's gone.
22:14This is shit.
22:16Everything's gone to shit.
22:18What can I do?
22:20What can I do to turn it around?
22:27Tracing the life of her maternal ancestor, Mary Whelan, Chrissie will discover yet one more cruel twist to her story.
22:45Television and radio host, Chrissie Swan, is on the New South Wales Southern Tablelands, pursuing the rollercoaster life of her
22:53maternal three-times great-grandmother, Mary.
22:59Having heard the devastating news that Mary's third husband, Charles, was killed by Mary's own son, Timothy Doran, Chrissie's keen
23:08to know if her gutsy ancestor can turn her fortunes around.
23:14Sacred to the memory of Charles Huggins, who died at his residence, aged 56 years.
23:24At St. Bartholomew's Church in Wendellamar, Chrissie's meeting with Ken Buck, a local history researcher.
23:32Hi.
23:33Hi.
23:33Hi.
23:34How are you?
23:34You're asking me, Ken.
23:35That's right.
23:35Who has details of the final chapter in Mary's life.
23:39You've got some news for me, Ken.
23:41I have some news for you, yes, about your three-times great-grandmother, Mary.
23:46She managed the property after Charles' death.
23:49She leased the horse and jockey inn.
23:52Yeah, bad memories.
23:53And she threatened trespasses with legal action.
23:59Very tough lady.
24:02That's an article written by a journalist who was visiting the area.
24:07Okay.
24:08The evening news, Sydney, January 18, 1870.
24:12Mrs Huggins' estate comprises 5,000 acres of purchased land and 10,000 acres leased.
24:1930 acres are undercrop and the rest is pasture for sheep and cattle.
24:24It is perhaps the best watered of any estate in the country.
24:28Well, she's done well, hasn't she?
24:30Very successful.
24:31But then, unfortunately, I'll give you that document there to read.
24:37Oh, a death notice from the Northern Argus in Rockhampton.
24:41Hmm.
24:42At the Union Hotel, Rockhampton, the result of an accident.
24:46Mr John T. Britton.
24:49It's a name I haven't seen before.
24:52Husband of Mrs Britton of Gordon Downs and son of Mrs Huggins of Budjgong.
24:57Who's Mr John T. Britton?
25:00That is Timothy Doran.
25:04He marries some.
25:05Timothy was released from jail in late March 1863.
25:10So he served his 18 months.
25:12No, he served his 18 months.
25:14Man's slaughter?
25:14Yes.
25:14Gone interstate to Queensland.
25:18He's changed his name and got married in Queensland.
25:24And he died at a pub?
25:28Yes.
25:29That seems to be a habit forming in this family.
25:32What sort of accident was it?
25:33There's another document there.
25:37A man named John Britton died at Rockhampton on Wednesday last from the effect of injuries
25:41received while fighting with a man.
25:46Wow.
25:47Do you know any more about that?
25:49Yes.
25:50An autopsy was held.
25:51He died of a brain injury.
25:54And he would have been drunk again, I would say.
25:56Could have been.
25:56How ironic.
25:57He died a similar way to his stepfather.
26:00Yes.
26:02So young.
26:03How sad.
26:06It's been a rough 10 years for Mary, hasn't it?
26:08Yes, yes.
26:11Mary kept her property running until 1883.
26:16And by 1885, she was living in Goulburn.
26:19Evidently, she accumulated a fair amount of property.
26:23Like what?
26:24Did she build other houses?
26:25From record, she had other houses and property in Goulburn.
26:29Wow.
26:30She would have been a fiend on realestate.com, like me.
26:33Yeah.
26:34Unfortunately, she passed away in 1889, aged 77 years of age.
26:40That's not a bad ending.
26:41They have a copy of her last will and testament.
26:44This is the last will and testament of me, Mary Huggins of Goulburn.
26:49So she didn't remarry after child.
26:52She didn't remarry.
26:53She had enough.
26:54As I hereby declare that it is my intention that if any of my children or grandchildren turn out to
26:59be or become a spendthrift,
27:02if they just splash their cash around and don't save any of it, or a drunkard, or cease to be
27:09a member or members of the Roman Catholic Church,
27:12he, she or they shall forfeit all interest under this, my will.
27:17Oh, so she's saying, if you end up like my first son, Timothy Doran, you can count yourself out of
27:24any of this cash.
27:24That's right.
27:25God, she's so tough.
27:27She is.
27:28She was a tough lady.
27:29And the last item that I have for you is a photograph of Mary.
27:33No!
27:34Oh, my God, I've been dying for this.
27:36It was taken just prior to her death.
27:39Oh, my God.
27:42She looks like Bert Newton.
27:45I always loved Bert.
27:46Yeah.
27:47I think she looks like Bert Newton in drag, like back in the crazy energy days.
27:51She could be, yeah.
27:55God, she looks really staunch.
27:59Doesn't she?
28:00Yeah.
28:02My face.
28:03I think I'd be a bit like that, too, if I'd had her life to you.
28:08A bit cranky.
28:17I would love to meet Mary, but I think I'd be a bit scared.
28:22She was a very fierce person.
28:27Her life was extraordinary, but she, like, just rolled with the punches, and there were
28:35a lot of punches.
28:37There's always been this, you know, undercurrent, I guess, in my family that we shouldn't ever
28:44limit our ambitions because of the gender that we were born into.
28:49And I think that Mary Whelan is probably the origins of that.
28:56And it was never said, but it was just there.
29:00Almost like DNA.
29:04Chrissie is delighted to have discovered generations of feisty female ancestors in her maternal family tree.
29:21She's now come to Gadigal land in Sydney, where she's turning her attention to her father's family.
29:28My dad, he's a great storyteller.
29:33His memory is extraordinary.
29:37He can talk to anyone.
29:40Even though I lived day-to-day with my mum in Melbourne, I saw Dad every holidays, and he would
29:48devise road trips.
29:51One holiday, we did a hunt for the best cream bun, and it involved stopping at all these bakeries, getting
29:58cream and jam all over our faces.
30:01It was great.
30:02We were very close and still are very close.
30:07Dad's parents were Sally Potter and Jack Swan, and I didn't meet either of them.
30:17Dad's mum looms large.
30:20I think she was lovely.
30:21I think she really loved those boys.
30:25The feeling is that they knew her.
30:30Her story is particularly tragic.
30:34I don't know a huge amount of details.
30:38I think it's very painful still for my dad to talk about.
30:45My grandfather, Jack Swan, wasn't a hands-on dad.
30:51My own dad hasn't spoken much about him.
30:55I get the impression from dad and his two brothers that he was rarely there.
31:06From what I can gather, he was, I think, a bit of a rogue.
31:13I never had a grandfather.
31:15I never knew either of mine.
31:17So, that sort of curiosity has always been present.
31:23Always.
31:29Determined to discover more about the character of her absent grandfather, Jack Swan, Chrissie has come to the rocks.
31:37Heather.
31:38Hello, Chrissie.
31:39Where she's calling on the expertise of genealogist Heather Garnsey.
31:46So, let's start just with a simple family tree.
31:49Yeah.
31:49There's me, Gary John Swan, my dad.
31:52Right.
31:53This is your grandfather.
31:54Gosh, he's got so many names.
31:55It's a very impressive name.
31:56It is, isn't it?
31:57John, William, James, Masson, Swan.
32:00But known as Jack.
32:01Yeah.
32:01Yep.
32:01Let's start with his mother, Jessie.
32:04In 1907, she marries John Swan in Glasgow.
32:07And then six months after they get married, they have their first child.
32:11It seems like everyone was doing it out of wedlock.
32:15There's a saying in family history that it's only ever the second child that takes nine months to be born.
32:19The first child can arrive at any time and often does.
32:22It seems like that is the truth.
32:23And that child is a girl and they call that child Jessie Blackwood.
32:28They then have a son, Robert, 1911.
32:31And then in 1913, they have your grandfather, Jack.
32:36This is so interesting.
32:37I love it.
32:38And this is a photograph we have of that family.
32:42Oh, look at the showbiz in the middle.
32:46That's Jessie.
32:47The daughter, Jessie.
32:49Oh, my God.
32:51She looks like my daughter so much.
32:54That is so funny.
32:56That's my granddad, isn't it?
32:57Yes, it is.
32:59God, he's so cute.
33:01They look like fun.
33:02That's so great.
33:03But the next time we find the family is in the 1921 census.
33:09But by then, they've actually moved from Scotland and they've moved to Barnsley in Yorkshire.
33:15I didn't know that.
33:17So, and you'll see the Swan family here.
33:19Here's my granddad, John William James Masson Swan.
33:24Hmm.
33:24Jack.
33:25We know that he remains at school in Barnsley until about 1927, finishes school, and he becomes an apprentice butcher.
33:33The next thing we find is that he does something quite different.
33:38In 1929, this appears in the paper.
33:44Overseas Settlement, Openings for Boys in Canada and Australia.
33:48Owing to the general depression in trade in this country, there are very few openings for boys which offer good
33:53prospects of advancement.
33:55In Canada and Australia, there are schemes by which boys of good character and brains,
34:01who do not possess any money at all when they leave England,
34:05may within a few years hope to be settled on their own farms.
34:09So he's read this and gone, that's a bit of me.
34:13So he's 16.
34:1516.
34:15That's extraordinary.
34:17Yep.
34:18Have you heard of the Dreadnought Scheme?
34:19Yes, I have heard that.
34:21What was that?
34:22This is this.
34:23Yep, that's that.
34:23Ah.
34:25The Dreadnought Trust was originally established in New South Wales to raise money to purchase a Dreadnought battleship for the
34:32British Navy,
34:33but the sale never eventuated.
34:37Instead, the funds were used to bring British migrant boys aged between 14 and 19 to Australia to be trained
34:45as farm workers.
34:47The first Dreadnought boys arrived in 1911, and the scheme continued until the Great Depression in 1930.
34:57Your grandfather, Jack, became one of the Dreadnought boys.
35:01And this is in 1929.
35:03In September of that year, he leaves England on board the steamship, the Bell Randall, and sailed to New South
35:12Wales.
35:12Wow.
35:14That's so brave.
35:16Hmm.
35:20Jack, my granddad, he's just gone, I've only got one life and I'm going to change the course of it.
35:27It's impressive.
35:29His sense of adventure.
35:32I relate to that.
35:35Because that is absolutely me.
35:38I am an impulsive person within reason.
35:43And I think he was wildly impulsive.
35:47But we'll see.
35:52Continuing her investigation, Chrissie will discover the real reason her grandfather was largely absent from the family home.
36:07Having learnt that her adventurous grandfather, Jack Swan, left England at 16 as part of the Dreadnought Scheme,
36:15Chrissie's travelling 55 kilometres northwest of Sydney to Skyville National Park.
36:22It was here on the traditional land of the Darug people that her grandfather first came,
36:28after his arrival in Australia in 1929.
36:33So peaceful now.
36:35Here, Chrissie's meeting with local historian Lorraine Stacker.
36:40I've got something to show you.
36:42A photo of Jack.
36:44Oh!
36:44This.
36:46Oh, my God.
36:48He looks so naughty.
36:51That's a cheeky face.
36:53Do you think he looks like me?
36:56Yeah.
36:59Got that cheeky smile.
37:01A little squint.
37:02Yeah.
37:03His photo was taken when he was 14.
37:06So that was before he came to Australia.
37:08Yeah.
37:09I'll show you a document.
37:12Okay.
37:13So this is the passenger list from the P&O.
37:20I wonder if he got the drinks package.
37:23This ship arrived on the 4th of November, 1929.
37:28There he is.
37:29John William J.M. Swan.
37:33Yes.
37:33A butcher's assistant, 16.
37:37And all of these other kids are about of the same age.
37:41That's right.
37:42They're so young, aren't they?
37:44Yeah.
37:45So they're all coming out on the dreadnought scheme.
37:49Mm-hmm.
37:50At least 8,000 boys arrived on that scheme.
37:53And 4,500 of them came here.
37:58Wow.
37:59You can imagine what it's like for those boys.
38:03I imagine it would have been very noisy.
38:06Yes.
38:06And a lot of feeling of excitement and opportunity.
38:10Away from their family as well.
38:13There would have definitely been tears on the pillow at night.
38:16Yes, that's right.
38:17Jack was here for three months.
38:21He learned to look after pigs, milk cows, plough in the fields.
38:27Wow.
38:28And then once he got all his skills, then what happened?
38:31Jack was sent up to Kempsey onto a dairy farm.
38:36He was given a small wage.
38:39But Jack knew that his wage was never going to be enough to fulfil his dreams.
38:44So he supplemented his income by taking up boxing.
38:50And he competed in bouts in Kempsey.
38:54He did have a reputation to be a hard hitter.
38:57Really?
38:57Yes, yeah.
38:58And he's known as the Scotch Terrier.
39:01Oh, my God.
39:03Was he any good?
39:04So he did okay.
39:06Boxing.
39:07So after Kempsey, yeah, the story goes a little bit cold.
39:11Uh-huh.
39:12So you need to go and see what he did do with his life.
39:16Yeah, track him down.
39:17The wild goose chase, the wild swan chase.
39:20Yes.
39:30In pursuit of her paternal grandfather, Jack Swan, Chrissie has tracked him down to Brisbane.
39:38She's keen to solve the mystery of why Jack is remembered as an absent father.
39:44Hello, Chrissie.
39:45Hello.
39:45And at the State Library of Queensland, she's consulting with librarian India Dixon.
39:50You've got some juicy goss for me.
39:52I have no shortage of juicy goss.
39:58Jack is a young man.
39:59He ends up actually boomeranging back to the UK in the year 1933, just as he turns 20.
40:07He ended up enlisting in the British Royal Artillery.
40:10And then in 1934, he was posted to Singapore.
40:17Wow.
40:19Because of its strategic location in the Far East, the British colony of Singapore was vital
40:25in the Commonwealth's defence against the growing military might of Japan.
40:32During the 1930s, the British government developed a large naval base and invested tremendous
40:40resources to fortify Singapore against potential Japanese attack.
40:46Your grandfather, his primary job involved him building and manning coastal battery defences.
40:54He ends up spending several years in Singapore in those sort of intervening war years in total.
41:00Yeah.
41:01In 1938, once again, Jack is on the move.
41:04Leaving Singapore now.
41:05He was leaving Singapore, yes.
41:07Oh my God, he gets bored so easily.
41:10He boards a ship called the Gorgon and he travels to Australia.
41:17We have his quarantine records.
41:20What is he up to?
41:23Swan.
41:25Oh, he's going to the home of Mrs. G. Potter in Kempsey.
41:31Sounds like you know who that would be.
41:33Yes.
41:34So my grandmother's surname was Potter.
41:36Sally, or shall we say Sarah Charlotte Potter?
41:40Yes.
41:40Yeah.
41:42He must have met her when he was there on the Dreadnoughts game.
41:46Because otherwise, why would he be going back to Kempsey?
41:48Indeed.
41:50That's romantic, isn't it?
41:51It is a little bit romantic.
41:53He goes back to Kempsey.
41:55About six weeks later, another document gets published.
41:58So this here is a...
41:59Looks like an army record of some sort.
42:01It is.
42:01It's an army number.
42:02Mm-hmm.
42:03So it's a ledger.
42:06Number 835778.
42:07Swan.
42:08John William.
42:10Deserter.
42:12That was a very serious offence at the time.
42:15It's highly likely that he deserted on the basis that he was in fact in love with Sally
42:19and he wanted to be with her.
42:20Oh, well, that's nice.
42:22Yeah.
42:22But that doesn't catch up to him for another couple of years at least.
42:26So he ends up marrying Sally on the 17th of June in 1939, right as the war is starting
42:33to brew.
42:34And then in December, their first son, Robert, was born.
42:37Yeah.
42:38Bob.
42:39Mm-hmm.
42:39And then came Gary.
42:41And then my dad.
42:42Yeah.
42:42Ezra.
42:43In 1941, I believe.
42:45Mm-hmm.
42:45Yes.
42:46And so the war at that point has well and truly broken out.
42:49Okay.
42:50And shortly after Gary is born, the British artillery, unfortunately, does catch up with
42:57your grandfather.
42:59Oh, to ask him about the desertions.
43:01Unfortunately, yeah.
43:02Oh, so how many years has that been?
43:04Three or four years.
43:04So it takes him a little while.
43:05He would have thought he'd gotten away with it.
43:07Absolutely.
43:08Yeah, you would.
43:09And the British Army offers him an ultimatum.
43:13So they can press charges and he can potentially be imprisoned.
43:17Or they will not press charges if he re-enlists again in the military.
43:22It doesn't have to be the British one, but it does have to be a Commonwealth force.
43:27Wow.
43:29God, what a bummer.
43:31Mm.
43:32So obviously he chooses not to go to jail and gets back into the service.
43:38He does.
43:39So when he enlists, he's quickly transferred into the Australian Infantry Forces.
43:44I have seen his service records and it is spaghetti bolognese.
43:50In that he's here, he's there, he's everywhere.
43:53We've actually got a map to show you just how many different places.
43:58Oh my gosh.
44:00What?
44:02All of these places?
44:04All of these places are places that he served at one point or another.
44:07Oh my god.
44:08Why?
44:10When he's entering the war, jungle warfare and jungle training was absolutely essential.
44:15And your grandfather actually had some of that already.
44:18Because he was stationed in Singapore, he was actually one of the few people who probably did.
44:22Yeah.
44:22And so his knowledge was clearly pulled in and he was taken to wherever those soldiers were being stationed
44:30throughout Australia to train them up.
44:33Did he take his young family with him?
44:36Unfortunately, during World War II, it wasn't possible to move your family with you.
44:41Okay.
44:41So Sally, your grandmother, was raising a family on her own in Kempsey.
44:47But based on Jack's records, he was taking his recreation leave to travel back when he could.
44:53How nice.
44:55Yeah.
44:56Well, this is so sweet.
44:57I didn't expect that.
44:59But we do actually have a photograph of them during this time period.
45:03Let me see.
45:04Let me see.
45:04I've never seen them together.
45:06Really?
45:07Yeah.
45:07Okay.
45:08I thought he was never there.
45:11Look at them in their finery.
45:14As the Pacific Campaign sort of kicks off in full force in 1944, he ends up transferring over to the
45:23small ships unit.
45:24You'll have to go and visit Bribie Island, I think, to find out more.
45:28Bribie, I want to meet Trey there once.
45:30It was the best day of my life.
45:37I always thought that Sal, my grandmother, was essentially a single mother because Jack had chosen adventure.
45:48He really didn't have a choice.
45:50I mean, he just would have been obligated on so many different levels to serve in the military.
45:57So that's good to know.
46:01In Queensland's Moreton Bay, Chrissie will finally gain an understanding and an affection for the grandfather she never knew.
46:15Radio and television host Chrissie Swan has come to Sandstone Point on Queensland's Moreton Bay, once a meeting place for
46:23the Ningi Ningi people.
46:28Having learned that military service kept her grandfather, Jack Swan, absent from the family home, Chrissie now wants a greater
46:36understanding of his elusive character.
46:39Hello, Michael.
46:40Hello, Chrissie. How are you?
46:41And she's hoping military historian Michael Kelly can provide some insight.
46:47In 1944, Jack was posted to the small ship's companies and here on Sandstone Point, this was a training area
46:55for amphibious operations.
46:58And Jack trained on the area we're actually sitting on right now today.
47:01Wow.
47:03He was actually living over here on Brabi Island with Sally.
47:06Over here?
47:07Yeah, with their two boys.
47:09He could go home at night?
47:10Yes, yeah.
47:11That's nice.
47:14He was here for several months and then he was off up to Malaya for the end of the war.
47:19Oh.
47:20Then in January 1946.
47:22Yes.
47:22He's home for the birth of his third child.
47:24Uncle Tom.
47:25Yeah.
47:26So from 1946, 47, he's found a way to stay in the services.
47:31Yeah.
47:31So he's gone from that volunteer soldier to a professional.
47:35The army's really started to sing to him.
47:37Found his calling.
47:38Yeah.
47:38Yeah.
47:39Yeah.
47:39But he spends a lot of time in the 50s on training courses.
47:43So trying to upskill in his navigation to lead men as well.
47:47This is Jack's course report from 1950.
47:51A navigation course including signalling.
47:53So you've got your final position in the course was four.
47:56There's only five.
47:57Only five.
47:58So second last.
47:59Must be better than last.
48:00I can't complain.
48:02When you look at the practical side of things, he's quite confident.
48:06Yes.
48:07Out on the water with his craft.
48:09He knows what he's doing.
48:10Yeah, that's where it counts, isn't it?
48:12General remarks.
48:13A real trier always.
48:15Yeah.
48:16That is a good thing to be.
48:18Yes.
48:18Give it a go.
48:19You never quit.
48:20He is inclined to make thoughtless mistakes.
48:23He has a good physique and was well turned out at all times.
48:27So 1953, Jack actually gets posted over to Japan.
48:32He's a warrant officer class two as well, so he's been promoted and was also given charge
48:37of the Kuranda and that's him on the far right with the Japanese crew of the vessel.
48:42Is that him?
48:43Yeah.
48:45Wow.
48:47So he was the boss of these guys?
48:49Yes.
48:50God, he's really doing well.
48:52I'm proud of him.
48:54That is fantastic.
48:55Yeah.
48:58After he's come home in 54, he's gone back into the water troop.
49:02By this time, Sally's moved in Queensland to Bulimba.
49:05Here's a photograph of her.
49:07That's my grandmother?
49:08Yeah.
49:10She looks so nice.
49:12She looks so kind.
49:13I just didn't know her at all.
49:16I just, I wish I had.
49:20The unfortunate thing with that is not long after, in 1956, she met with an awful lot of
49:26accidents.
49:29Oh, God, this is so sad.
49:33We don't talk about this one.
49:35No.
49:39The title's just too awful.
49:42Brisbane, June 25th.
49:45A 39-year-old married woman was electrocuted while using an electric washing machine at her
49:52home in the Brisbane suburb of Bulimba.
49:56At 9.40am today, the woman, Mrs. Sarah Charlotte Swan, was taken to hospital but failed to respond
50:04in an iron lung.
50:11I just feel so sad for Uncle Bob and Uncle Tom every time I think about it.
50:19The glue of their family is gone.
50:26You can see how much it's affected Jack.
50:30He's on a course only a couple months after Sal's death.
50:33An extremely keen, conscientious and hardworking senior NCO did not show his best under exam
50:42conditions, owing to overstudy and domestic worry.
50:46Oh, God.
50:49He failed general seamanship and chart work.
50:53You can see the stresses at home have led to that.
50:58He just would have checked out.
51:00Absolutely, yeah.
51:02In 1962, he's given a long service medal and good conduct medal for 20 years of service.
51:08And then he actually meets a lady called Mary White and they get married.
51:12But then the following year, he's hospitalised with diabetes.
51:15Oh.
51:15And his health is starting to break down.
51:18This is him when he enlisted in 1942.
51:23And if you turn it over, that photograph here is him in...
51:28Oh, dear God.
51:29...circa 1963.
51:31You can actually see the ravages of life on Jack.
51:36He's 50 at this stage.
51:38He's younger than me in that photo.
51:40Yes.
51:40He looks really tired.
51:44Oh, that poor man.
51:45I just feel sad for him.
51:48After he discharges, he stays in Queensland and works in the security industries.
51:54And then...
51:55Oh, so this is the death certificate.
51:59On the 5th of January 75, John Williams Swamp, security officer, 61.
52:06Wow.
52:08So the cause of death is cardiac liver failure, carcinoma, stomach cancer.
52:14Yeah.
52:16Sad.
52:18So I've got a photograph here of you with your grandfather.
52:23Yes, this is...
52:24There's me!
52:25Yeah, you with your grandfather.
52:26That's the only photograph that exists of me with Jack.
52:32And then there's my cousin, who was born around the same time that I was.
52:37So, yeah, Jack with two brand-new grandchildren.
52:41And proud as punch.
52:42This must have been early 74.
52:46A year later, he was gone.
52:48Yeah.
52:52The man that I thought Jack Swan was, I'm happy to report, is not who he turned out to be.
52:59I really thought that he was, you know, like a deadbeat dad.
53:03That turns out to be not the truth.
53:08He gave everything a go, in the army and in life.
53:13I think when Sal died, so tragically, so suddenly, I think that really devastated Jack.
53:22I feel affection toward him now.
53:25And even though I never met him, I understand him so much better.
53:29You know, he did his best, and I didn't know that.
53:37I'm a very impulsive person, and I thought that, you know, I had the gold standard in that,
53:44but I feel like Jack was more so.
53:48It's nice to have a kindred spirit, because I've always felt like, you know, too much all the time.
53:54And I feel like he was too much.
53:58More too much than me.
54:02My three times great-grandmother, Mary, she was certainly an unconventional woman,
54:07and I relate to that.
54:11I don't think she was as fun as me.
54:14I think she just didn't suffer fools gladly.
54:17And I love a fool.
54:21The pursuit of fun has always been the most important thing for me,
54:26and this experience has confirmed it.
54:30But you're here for such a short amount of time.
54:33So I'm going to keep on pursuing fun.
54:47Next time on Who Do You Think You Are, celebrity chef Curtis Stone...
54:52Did you ever hear her talk about her dad?
54:54Never.
54:55...unravels an intriguing family history...
54:58That is a mystery.
54:59There's even more mystery.
55:00...and uncovers desperate times...
55:04Poor Jane, my God.
55:07...scandalous behaviour...
55:08Oh, my gosh, you dirty dog.
55:09...and a secret romantic deal.
55:12So it was set up.
55:13It had to be set up.
55:14I'm conclusion.
55:20...I love her.
55:22You're here.
55:22Bye.
55:23You
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