- 2 days ago
A year after the AI 171 crash shortly after takeoff from Ahmedabad, the delay in releasing the investigation report has sparked concerns over transparency and potential cover-ups.
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00:00It brings me to our big question that I want to ask today. Why is the AI-171 crash probe
00:05taking
00:06so much time? Every few months we are told the report is about to come but it hasn't.
00:11Is there pressure on the investigators because of the high stakes involved?
00:15Is there an attempt to a cover-up as some allege? Will AI-171 air crash probe be an eye
00:22wash in the
00:23end as some fear? Is more transparency needed in the way the probe is being conducted by the air
00:29accidents bureau? I'm joined by Captain M.R. Wadia. He's founder, president of the Federation of
00:35Indian Pilots. Captain Sam Thomas, president, Airline Pilots Association of India. Mirza
00:41Faizan is aerospace scientist, aviation safety expert and Captain C.S. Randhawa is the present
00:49president of the Federation of Indian Pilots. So good to have all of you on the show today but
00:56before I come to you, a short while ago I spoke to Captain Gopinath who founded Air
01:02Deccan and he has very strong views on the subject. I want you to listen to him and then I'm
01:07going to
01:08widen this debate. Listen in.
01:14But before I come to my live guests, I earlier spoke to Captain Gopinath, formerly of course the
01:21founder of Air Deccan and someone who has spent a lifetime studying aviation. Captain Gopinath, do you
01:28find it unusual that it's been a year and we still don't really know what happened to that Air India
01:34flight
01:35that crashed soon after takeoff in Ahmedabad airport?
01:39Yeah, it is unusual in the sense all over the world, especially in the U.S. and Europe mainly,
01:49they put out a preliminary report after five to six months so that the people who are involved in aviation
02:01are warned or cautioned against the preliminary report so that they can immediately take corrective action
02:12and normally they'll put out a report after one year. Sometimes it may be longer.
02:20But I think in India, unfortunately, not just during this comment, I think since many, many years,
02:30reports are not circulated widely because of our Orcaic laws which says that it has to be approved by the
02:38parliament, apart from the fact that the investigation itself is slow. So therefore, I think it is an issue
02:47that the preliminary report was officially not released by the government or the ministry.
02:53And I think that's troubling because people should know so that you can put to NTLX speculation
03:01because everybody is speculating, you know.
03:04But there was, but, so are you saying, are you saying even before the final report comes in,
03:13there should have, because the government, you will recall, sir, in June of 2025, late June,
03:21the preliminary finding had allegedly revealed that the Boeing 787's engine fuel control
03:27switches moved almost simultaneously from run to cutoff, cutting the fuel supply to both engines shortly
03:35after takeoff. The moment those findings were made public, the pilots were irate suggesting
03:41that there was an attempt to blame the pilot or pilot error and allowing the manufacturers
03:46to get away. So the Federation even filed a writ petition in the Supreme Court on this.
03:52So there are dangers in perhaps not giving the full picture. Should we be waiting for the full picture
03:58as the AIB is requesting rather than jumping to conclusions?
04:03No, no. What I'm saying is, officially, the government normally, that's why I said normally,
04:10in the US and in Europe, they release an official preliminary report,
04:18which gives some indications. But here, it was not done in that professional manner because,
04:25as you know, there are conflicting interests and the conspiracy theories. Everybody is jumping onto that.
04:32As everyone knows, it could be largely three main reasons. One is the aircraft malfunction,
04:41the manufacturing defect, which Boeing wants to protect. And there's also people who are knowledgeable
04:51people who wrote articles, editorials, saying that it is a strategic decision because there's pressure
05:01from Trump to ensure that Boeing is not affected. That will affect the sales of Boeing. Because Boeing was
05:08already under severe pressure because of many other mishaps. Then there could be a maintenance issue,
05:17which will then point to the fact that Tata's maintenance was bad. The third is the pilot error.
05:24There's also a possibility because of the FDR that came out, which said that the pilots are talking to
05:31each other, where one pilot said, did we switch it off? And the other says, no, I did not switch
05:36off.
05:36So that report was released. But it was not an official report released where all the three
05:46investigating agencies, which were enrolled, where the NTSB from the USA, which is because it's from the
05:52US, they joined in the report, DGCA and the Tata's and Boeing itself. So they should have put out
06:01together a 22 report because of these conflicting issues and conflicting interests. It was not put out
06:10because the moment the pilots went up in arms, then the government, you know, backtracked.
06:18The reason why pilot went up in arms, they said, you have done a harsh job of it.
06:25And I think the larger question here is, right, that there is a credibility issue of the Indian
06:32investigation agencies. Just like, you know, in other cases, if it is a state police investigating,
06:40the center doesn't accept it, because they think the state will be, you know, not bipartisan,
06:48it will be partial to protect a state's interest. And similarly, the CBI investigates,
06:54the states are against it, because they think the center will use the CBI and the ED to come after
07:00them. So the investigating agencies have lost their credibility. And similarly, I think in the DGCA,
07:07it is not coming out in shining colors, because firstly, the DGCA is loaded with
07:14the top echelon is all the IAS people, you know, they're all administratively brilliant,
07:20some of the best minds go there, I'm not denigrating them. But why should an IAS guy who
07:27was in animal hospitalry or some other department take over as a DGCA, right? If you have an ISRO
07:35as a scientist, if you are an army chief of the army, if you have the CSIR as a scientist,
07:42Automic Energy Commission as a scientist, why do you put a, to use a derogatory term,
07:48which has become derogatory, you have Babu there? So you're, I take your point.
07:54Yeah. I take your point. You're calling for expertise, you're calling for a need for,
07:59for transparency, you're calling for a need for greater expertise to ensure that the process of
08:05finding out what really happened in that air crash is seen to be as credible as possible.
08:13We'll wait and see whether that actually happens. But good to talk to you,
08:18Captain Gopidath on the show today. Thank you, Rajdeep.
08:23Okay. Let me go to my live guests. I want to go to you, Captain Sam Thomas,
08:26President Airlines Pilot Association of India. I know you've been among those who strongly questioned
08:31the way in which that the preliminary findings were, were being put out as if to suggest pilot error.
08:37One year later, we still don't know what happened to AI 171. The speculation continues.
08:43What do you, what is your response? How do you see what's happened over the last one year?
08:50Good evening, Rajdeep. Good evening to all the panelists and my seniors.
08:54It's an absolute joke. And I know that Captain Randhava and Captain Wadi are going to tear into that report.
09:01So I'll refrain from that. And I'll just point out to you that if you look at the system and
09:08what is
09:08lacking thereof, just mark, the first thing is we do not have a professional aircraft accident investigation body.
09:17We have some Air Force officers, engineering officers on deputation to this body. It's not an independent body.
09:26It comes under the Ministry of Civil Aviation, I think. And they have co-opted officers from DGCA,
09:33which they are not supposed to do. And sure enough, they came up with that preliminary report,
09:39which is an insult to a tissue paper, actually. Post that, what is glaring now with you have
09:47interviewed the passengers or the survivors kin is the lack of any kind of support system for them to
09:58tide over this trauma. It's enormous. And we don't have a professional body that looks into the
10:05trauma that the families are going through. And the pressure from Air India to sign away some of their
10:12rights in order to get the compensation is absolutely reprehensible. And the and the clarification that
10:22they have given is not acceptable at the moment. And we, I do not hope that a proper report will
10:30come
10:30out. The proper report can only come out if you have a professional body handling this particular case.
10:40Those are very strong words from you. I want to come to you, Captain Wadia, because you are founder,
10:45president of Federation of Indian Pilots. And when you all went to the writ, filed a writ petition in July,
10:502025 in the Supreme Court, you accused the AIIB, the Accidents Investigation Bureau of a biased,
10:59non-transparent investigations and leaking unverified data. A year later, do you think anything has changed?
11:07Nothing has changed at all. And please listen to what Sam Thomas has just said. And I hope you can
11:14repeat it 10 times over and over again. Not today, not for this accident. For the last 50 years,
11:21we've been asking the government and asking the Prime Minister to have an independent safety board.
11:27That is what is prevailing all over the advanced countries in the world. Why do we not have or want
11:34to have an independent safety board? Do you want to just keep on protecting the DGCA or the airport
11:41authority or the Ministry of Aviation so that the truth never comes out? That is the fundamental
11:48problem, not for this accident alone, for all the accidents that have happened in the past. And that's
11:53the most important point. As far as this accident is concerned, please understand that there are huge
12:01financial losses to a lot of agencies. And let's not speculate. Let me give you some evidence.
12:07Right from the second day itself, all the Western media were harping on the fact that the pilots made
12:13some mistake, that the pilots put the switches off. There was an attempt to suicide. It's all totally
12:22rubbish, and no one should pay any attention to that. What the facts are that there is a malfunction
12:28that has happened. Please investigate. A flight that took only 30 seconds. You've wasted one year to find
12:36out. You couldn't get some information from the CVR. Why can't it be made public? What they actually...
12:41Only two seconds video call has been understood by the public that the pilots asked whether the switches
12:49were put off, and they said no. So that is a fact. The switches were not put off. So then
12:54why have the engines
12:55failed? There is a tremendous amount of investigation to be done, and the facts will not come out,
13:03unless there's a lot of independent pressure on the investigating agencies.
13:11So what you're calling for is an independent air safety board. You seem to be suggesting, Captain
13:19Wadiya, that the CDR transcript should be made public? You're saying that the cockpit data recorded
13:27transcript should be made public? Why not? What is the secret about it? What's the secret
13:31what has transpired in the cockpit for just about five to ten seconds? Why can't it be made public?
13:36What is there to hide in that? And also what is important, I believe Sam Thomas is now the
13:42India director for AIFA ALPA. Now the AIFA, that's the International Federation of Airline Pilots
13:47Associations. And to my mind, that is the most professional body in the world. And all the countries
13:53that have least failures or accidents are the ones who have an independent safety board. And that has to
14:00be done by professionals and not by people who are mandated or appointed by the government.
14:05Right. I want to come to you, Captain Radhava, because you're also from the Federation of Pilots.
14:14Are you convinced that the investigation, as it's gone on so far, has been free or fair?
14:18Or do you fear, given the stakes involved, that there is pressure not to make the findings public?
14:24Do you believe that the time has come to put out whatever has come, even an interim report in the
14:31public domain? Because pilots, I am told, have opposed an interim report?
14:36You see, the thing is, first and foremost thing, what the ICAO NXJ13 says, they have to first submit
14:44to the stakeholders a draft report. After the draft report has come, it will be again, it will take
14:5230 to 60 days and they have to disseminate the final report. So before they put it on the public
14:58domain, they have to make sure that they share the draft report with the stakeholders.
15:04But we don't even have a draft report yet. We don't have a draft report yet. That's why there
15:10is so much of speculation as to what happened to the flight.
15:14No. So that means you can imagine from the day you get the draft report, it will take 30 to
15:1960 days.
15:20So they have not given. I believe there is some statement by the minister today that they
15:25are still investigating. So it will take longer. Yeah, there is just a general statement that it
15:31will take a couple of months more. But I repeat my question. Is the fear that the pilots association
15:36has that someone is being protected or that the revelations, if they come out, will be of a nature
15:41that will be hugely damaging to big stakeholders? Why is the report not coming out in any form,
15:46in your view, so far? The report is not coming out. As I said, they lack the expertise. We have
15:55been
15:56saying since June last year, we have been making one statement that they do not have that kind of
16:03expertise in the present investigation board. That is one of the handicaps. Secondly, I have told you that
16:10they are investigating other crashes also because they can't close all the crashes. They're insufficient,
16:17man. I would say last year when they came out with the preliminary report, it was too premature to
16:25give a clean shit to Boeing, Honeywell, and to GE, all three American companies. And green shit was
16:31given. You just now started the investigation last year and you gave a green shit. So we have been asking
16:37the government how the green shit has been given. And what does that indicate? That means you've made
16:43up your mind that you are to blame the pilots and close the inquiry. So we are sceptical the way
16:51the
16:52investigations are going on. And we have been airing our views and we have reached.
16:58Mirza Faizan, you want to respond because you've been someone who's been a safety expert,
17:04trained on air and trained air crash investigator. How do you see the investigation that has taken
17:10place in AI-171 compared with global investigations? Have we been, where have we gone wrong and where
17:17have we gone right? Good evening, Rajdeep. I totally agree with the point Captain Wadia just made that it was
17:28in 32 seconds of flight. There are 32 seconds of FDR and CVR data. Why are we keeping it secret?
17:39It should
17:39not take so long. Competency, as Captain Sam mentioned, I definitely agree to that. There is a lack of
17:49competency. Indian investigation agency AIB. But if we make it public, there will be speculation. Just a
17:56minute. No, no, just a minute, sir. Sir, if we make the data recorder transcripts public, the government
18:03could say that could lead to more speculation. Was it pilot error? Was it malfunction? And they don't,
18:09they want to avoid that, they say, till a final report is ready?
18:18If the data is put in the public domain, it will actually lead to less speculation, Rajdeep, not more
18:26speculations, because there are experts who are going to analyze that data. For example, let me tell you
18:31something. If we have the FDR data, let's say, as they tried to blame on pilot that the pilot cut
18:40off
18:40the switch. Now, a pilot cannot cut off both the switch with one hand. If the pilot has cut off
18:46the
18:46switch with one hand, two switches, it will take a couple of seconds between the two switches being cut
18:52off. When we have that data, what is the time gap between the two switch going off, if the switch
18:58has ever
18:58gone off, right? That will tell us clearly that it was not the pilot, it was the plane. So there
19:04are
19:05some critical data which will tell us, which will point us in the direction, which is the right
19:11direction, right? That's number one. Number two, the preliminary report which was published, in my
19:18opinion, in fact, earlier when I was with you on your show, I told and I reiterate the fact, that
19:24was
19:25that they were going to be able to do it. They were going to be able to test the waters
19:26by blaming it on
19:28the pilot who are no more alive to defend themselves and see how the world reacts. If the world would
19:33have reacted, favor, I mean, silently or accepted it, they would have put it on the pilot. Because
19:44sometimes an air crash becomes a matter of national prestige. Sometimes an air crash becomes a matter
19:51of the prestige or even the survival of large corporates. Boeing cannot afford a crash at this
19:58point of time, right? So some data, if they would have made more public, speculation could be avoided.
20:13Okay, so you're making the point that actually putting out data in the public would avoid the
20:17speculation. Just to put this out there and then I'll come to you, Captain Thomas. Air crash probes
20:22in this country in recent times. AI Express from Dubai crashes in Kodiko, 21 kill. Final report was
20:29submitted 13 months after the crash. In 2010, an AI Express overshot runway in Mangalore, 158 kill.
20:37Probe report was submitted five months after the crash. In July 17, 2000, plane crashed landing in
20:44Patna, 60 dead. Report was released nine months after the crash. November 12, 1996, two planes crash
20:51collided near Delhi, Charki Dadri, 349 kill. Court of inquiry report submitted eight months later. Do you
20:59believe that one year is sufficient time in a case like this to have got the report? Is that the
21:06reason
21:06why many pilots fear that someone is being protected by constantly delaying the report or some adverse
21:12findings that could shake the nation are not being put out? Rajdeep, it's not unusual for
21:20investigations to take more than one year. Now, the speed of the investigation, the thoroughness of
21:26the investigation is directly proportional to the intellect of the investigators. That is the reason
21:32why we've been harping on the fact that you must have subject matter experts. I was shocked to see
21:38a headline day before yesterday which said AAIB says no necessity for subject matter experts to be on
21:45board. So, I don't know how they're going to do with this. And as far as the crashes that you
21:49mentioned,
21:50not all the data is absolutely accurate. It has taken more time and most of that has been wrong.
21:56That is one of the reasons. And in fact, it is the Air India Express, that Mangalore crash that brought
22:05about this AAIB. Like everything in India, after the hijack of IC 814, we formed BCAS. What does BCAS do?
22:13If there's a hijack, they'll sit and issue passes for all the hijackers also. So, all these bureaucratic
22:19bungling that we've been doing is not helping the cause at all. Therefore, we reiterate that
22:26we are not here blindly like some people are thinking to protect the pilot. We want the truth.
22:32And I'm going out on a limb. And as I said on the other channel, they are going to come
22:36out with a
22:37report under political pressure, blaming the pilot somewhere down the line. Captain Randhawa is already
22:43in court. We will also go to court. And just like the Air France 447 that you just had the
22:50result,
22:51about five, six years later, we will win the case. By then, it will be justice delayed, therefore denied.
23:02So, you're saying there will be political pressure to not to give the full report, is it?
23:09You're saying you fear there will be political pressure to protect someone?
23:14Always. As always. Not just this crash. Why did the MAX crash go against the pilots till they actually
23:20found out? Every crash has a political angle to it. And, you know, every OEM is entitled to defend
23:29himself. But in these big corporates, what happens? The governments get involved. And it's very clear,
23:35it is not the first time that it's going to happen. And neither is it the last time that it's
23:39going to happen,
23:40Rajdeep.
23:43You know, that's a very serious charge that you're making. But, Captain Wadia,
23:49your sense, therefore, do you believe that we need, as you said, a drastic change
23:54in the way air safety, air accident investigations are conducted in this country? Because otherwise,
24:02it's all about credibility at the end of the day. Do you believe whatever report comes out,
24:06will it be treated by the pilot community as credible? What if, God forbid, the report says
24:12it was pilot error in some form? Will the pilots accept it?
24:16Why not? If it's a fact, why not? We will accept anything which is factual. But let me reiterate
24:21what Sam just told you. It is not a drastic statement. It is a factual statement. And let me
24:29clarify, first of all, what all of the previous speakers have said that there are not credible
24:33investigators. Let me clarify that very clearly and properly. All countries in the world which have
24:39proper independent safety boards have aviators, not necessarily only pilots, aviators, maybe engineers,
24:46air traffic controllers, who are trained in accident analysis, who do the accident investigation
24:51thoroughly and properly. Not the political people, not the judges in the high court,
24:57but these accident analysis specialists. And let me also tell you, we've been insisting on that.
25:02And because we did not have any people who were earlier trained, I arranged from ICAO,
25:08a team to come to India and ask the DGCA to let maximum number of pilots attend the training course,
25:14which was brought in from ICAO, that is in United Nations. Can you imagine that the DGCA did not
25:22permit a single pilot, not a single pilot to attend the course, only the bureaucrats sat in that course
25:28for a formality of it and wasted everyone's time and money. And that is criminal, absolutely criminal.
25:39Mirza Faizan, therefore, in conclusion, if there was one advice that you would give the ministry or those
25:44who are handling the investigation, what would it be? A quick response.
25:49Get the experts.
25:53Now is the time we must get the experts. There are some great air crash investigators.
25:58They know the arts and science of it. They figured out a lot of things by looking at the air
26:05crash site.
26:07So please get the experts. That is my advice to the authorities, to the ministries, to the government.
26:14Please, get the experts.
26:21You are saying give the experts just to put it in context, the 32 seconds of AI 171 disaster.
26:27It was just 32 seconds. Remember, one minute, 38 seconds before the crash, just the chronology here.
26:33Before the crash, the aircraft was cleared for takeoff. 32 seconds before the crash, aircraft takes off from
26:40the Ahmedabad runway. 29 seconds before crash, aircraft achieves maximum recorded airspeed of 180 knots.
26:47Immediately thereafter, both fuel switches move from run to cutoff. 24 seconds before crash,
26:52ram air turbine starts supplying hydraulic power to aircraft. 19 seconds before crash, left engine fuel
26:59switch moves from cutoff to run position. 17 seconds before crash, air inlet door of auxiliary power unit
27:06begins opening. 15 seconds before crash, right engine fuel switch moves from cutoff to run position.
27:13Six seconds before crash, one of the pilots transmits a May day message. Flight data recorders
27:19stop recording at 139.11 seconds. Captain Thomas, in your view, do you believe this is extremely
27:27highly unusual? You're saying avoid the speculation. Come with the hard facts. Am I correct?
27:35Rajdeep, as an accredited air accident investigator, I am prohibited from giving you any kind of
27:43speculative answers because I could lose my accreditization. Now, as the details that you have
27:51put out, it is very clear that a lot needs to be looked into and not by bystanders. A lot
28:00needs to be
28:00looked into by subject matter experts on a lot of aspects, including the EFR, which must be tallied with
28:11the CVR, the EHM, the ACARS messages, and the ATC transcript. And also you will be shocked to hear that
28:20one of the, or rather the only surviving witness or the survivor of the crash was interviewed only after
28:30about four or five months. Now that's against the basic tenets of air accident investigation,
28:36because the witness must have his preliminary statement recorded as quickly as possible so that
28:44it's fresh in his mind and he does not get a chance to bring other thoughts into his mind. So
28:50therefore,
28:50I once again reiterate that only and only subject matter experts like all the panelists have pointed
28:58out can get you anywhere close to the actual reason for this particular disaster.
29:08Let me end on that slightly sobering thought that you've given us there. I hope that
29:14those in power, the Ministry of Civil Aviation and others are listening to what our top pilots are
29:20telling them, we want credibility. We want a credible investigation and a clear transparent probe that
29:28will give some kind of closure to the families who've been grieving for the last year. I appreciate
29:34all my guests joining us all my guests joining us and I really hope that someone out there realizes that
29:40human life doesn't come cheap in this country. All the 260 who died, their families surely deserve better,
29:48much better than just bureaucratic statements saying that the probe is going on. I appreciate my guests joining us.
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