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00:00We're constantly being told that health is something we can perfect.
00:03Eat better, sleep more, optimise your routine, fix your mindset.
00:07But what happens when your relationship with food, your body and your health is complicated
00:11and staying well feels less like a lifestyle and more like relentless management?
00:16There's a lot of mental effort and I say quite a lot, as a lot of type 1 diabetics do,
00:21it's like having another job, a 24-hour job. So constantly in the background you're thinking
00:26what's my blood glucose level? Do I need to give more insulin? Do I need to give less insulin with
00:31this meal? You're trying to estimate the amount of carbs in a meal to work out how much insulin to
00:36give to cover that amount of carbs. Constantly going on in the back of your head.
00:40Ed Gamble is a comedian, presenter, podcaster and author best known for Off Menu, Great British Menu
00:46and his stand-up tours. Diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 13, he spent more than 25 years
00:52navigating the chronic condition alongside a lifelong relationship with food, body image,
00:57performance pressure and the mental load of trying to hold everything together.
01:01It's impossible to have perfection because you are being your own pancreas. You're controlling
01:06something that your body should be doing naturally.
01:09Today we discuss diabetes, chronic illness burnout, male body image and perfectionism,
01:14as well as wellness culture and why being well enough might mean letting go of the idea of doing
01:19health perfectly. Ed Gamble, comedian, podcaster and presenter, welcome to Well Enough.
01:24Thank you very much. Nice to have presenter on the end there.
01:26You are a presenter, right? The trainers?
01:27Yeah, I am, but I would never whack that on my CV, but it's good to know I'm now
01:33fully on the presenter train. Hey, we're recognising you for it.
01:35We think it's great. Thank you so much, please.
01:37But I want to talk to you about your podcast, obviously, Off Menu. Big fan. I listen to you every
01:42week. Thank you very much.
01:43And I love how joyful you are about food. I love listening to you get excited about when people are
01:48listing their dream menu. And your book, Glutton, obviously details your relationship
01:53with food throughout the years. And I really like the way you home in on the joys, the highs,
01:59the lows. Food is really emotional. And I think a lot of people maybe don't realise that,
02:04especially when we talk about our relationship with family or the past or things that might have
02:09happened. We attach that to significant moments in our life when we think about food.
02:12I feel like it's everything, right? Totally. I think, yeah, I think
02:16people's history is through food. I think that's the big sort of sense memory you have
02:20from certain events is definitely food. And I think that's why the podcast works is
02:24no matter what people pick on their dream menu, they're going to have a reason for picking it.
02:29They're going to have a story behind it. And, you know, even if they pick a dreadful menu,
02:34which we've had many times before, people who I consider to have awful taste in food,
02:38if there's an emotional story behind it or a funny story behind it, I'm on board with it.
02:42You can kind of let them off, can't you? Yeah. Even though I'm hugely judging them secretly.
02:46I remember certain ones where, I mean, maybe I would pick a protein shake as a wellness editor,
02:50but you weren't happy with that. No. Your dream drink. And also, I don't,
02:56when we have guests on, and they're normally American guests, to be fair,
02:59who pick like a really healthy menu or like they're thinking about wellness through their menu. It's like,
03:04that's not your dream menu. That's, that's what you would eat in your day-to-day life for obvious
03:10reasons. But your, your dream menu, surely you shouldn't be thinking about what's my health
03:16going forward. It should be, this could be my last meal. I mean, do you think it's all about
03:20indulgence then? Because you write a lot in your book about kind of overindulging. Yes. When you were
03:25growing up, you talk about being like a little round kid. Yes. Lovely, lovely fat little boy I was.
03:33But do you still kind of have that relationship with food now? Do you sort of watch what you eat
03:37and think about it more? Yeah, I, I do. I do have to, to think about it because if I
03:42just went for it, I could, I could eat all day and all night. Yeah. And I did enjoy doing
03:47that
03:47back when I did it. But now I think getting older as well, I can get a hangover from food
03:52now.
03:53If, if I eat a massive meal and then go to bed, I can wake up thinking, God, did I
03:57have eight pints
03:58last night? I go, no, no, no, just had too much chicken. Yeah. Do you think that's the process
04:03of aging? Is that something we've all got to look forward to? I think so. Gosh, it's quite sad,
04:07isn't it? It is, it is sad. We might not be able to have as much chicken as we want
04:09to. Yeah.
04:12I mean, I was talking before we started recording about how I've now
04:14randomly got an allergy to onions, which I never had as a kid. Yeah.
04:19Um, and it's weird when we have to kind of navigate these little rules.
04:22Mm-hm. And certainly you have that in your life because you've talked a lot about having type 1
04:27diabetes. Yes. A lot of people don't have to consider the emotional labor of dealing with
04:33rules and regulations when they're eating. I mean, is that quite hard work for you?
04:38Totally. I mean, obviously I've been type 1 diabetic diagnosed since I was 13. So it's been a long time.
04:44You can work out how long it's been. Um, but, uh, yeah, there's, there's a lot of work that goes
04:50into it.
04:50There's a lot of mental effort. And I say quite a lot as a lot of type 1 diabetics do,
04:55it's like having another job, a 24 hour job. So constantly in the background, you're thinking,
05:00what's my blood glucose level? Do I need to give more insulin? Do I need to give less insulin with
05:05this meal? You're trying to estimate the amount of carbs in a meal to work out how much insulin to
05:11give to cover that amount of carbs constantly going on in the back of your head. Um, and some days
05:16it's
05:17fine. Some days it sort of behaves itself. I think of my, uh, glucose levels as like, uh, as having
05:23a puppy who's constantly sort of excited and unpredictable and sometimes the puppy's just
05:28having a nap and that's a great day. But then sometimes normally when there's other stuff going
05:32on, it decides to kick off and I have to like ultra manage my type one and be constantly checking
05:38what my glucose levels are at and stuff. Um, but yeah, it's, it's easy and it's easier now.
05:44It used to be certainly when I was diagnosed, you'd have to do the blood test. So you'd be
05:49finger pricking, constantly getting blood out, putting it in a machine, seeing what your glucose
05:53levels were, not knowing what direction they were going in. So you'd have to base it on feeling.
05:58You get a certain feeling when they're going up or down. Now I've got a thing called Dexcom G7.
06:04People probably see now and again, you'll be walking around and you'll see the back of someone's
06:07arm. So you can probably see that there. You'll see like a little thing like this and they're probably
06:13a diabetic because that goes through to my phone. Then I can check my glucose levels.
06:19Yeah. It's, it's taken so much of the, that labor out of it that I can just look at my
06:23phone.
06:24It's going up or down or just completely steady. That's the ideal. And then I know what I need to
06:28do with it. I need to eat something, inject insulin. And it does help me just get on with
06:32the rest of my day quite easily. And an alarm will go off if it's, you know, too high, too
06:37low.
06:37Really good. I mean, because when did you get that? Because I can imagine,
06:41especially if you're trying to become a comedian, you're on the road a lot,
06:43you've got a really unpredictable schedule, you're maybe eating at service stations,
06:47like having to prick your finger all the time and no one else is having to do it.
06:50So it's not like you're doing it together. That must've been really challenging.
06:53Yes, it certainly was. Yeah. I've had it for a few years, sort of never imagined this technology
06:59would even exist, certainly when I was diagnosed. And I spent a long time after I was diagnosed,
07:03not properly regulating my type one and not looking after it properly because I was a teenager,
07:08you know. But now I think if I had had this technology when I was a teenager,
07:12I would have been way more across it. Also, it's an excuse to look at your phone in public.
07:16Right. You're like, excuse me, I'm very busy and important.
07:19Yeah, exactly. Excuse me, it's actually a medical thing.
07:21Yeah. And yeah, while I'm here, I will check Instagram if that's all right with you.
07:24Of course. The thing about type one is it's not an exact science,
07:26like there's always going to be different things that affect your blood glucose, like
07:29the weather, your stress levels, how much you've slept. And certain people are impacted
07:34differently by certain types of food. So like I, now I have the Dexcom G7, I can see exactly where
07:41my blood glucose goes after I've eaten certain things and how quickly it'll go up and sometimes
07:46then come down very rapidly. So the upshot of it is I don't eat oats.
07:49Right. Okay. Because that causes a big spike.
07:53Yeah. And I think that like there are non-diabetics who don't, who just don't know how, I spoke
07:58to someone who has a CGM, who is a non-diabetic and they were like, I ate your punnet of
08:04grapes
08:04the other day and my blood glucose started going up. And I was like, yeah, it's a box of sugar,
08:08mate. But I guess the word isn't necessarily out there. You know, I'm a total nerd for this sort
08:12of thing because I have to be.
08:13Yeah. It's interesting though, because I think some people have started to demonize
08:18certain foods because of the sugar content too. And if it's not going to affect you,
08:22or if it's not going to be a life or death situation, you could probably have some grapes.
08:26It's probably fine.
08:27I think that's the message we need to put out on this podcast is why not have some grapes?
08:31Why not have some grapes?
08:32I hope that you're enjoying this episode with Ed Gamble and we'll get back to it in just a second.
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09:47So I'm still multiple daily injection, which means I have the physical sort of insulin pen,
09:52and I have to judge how much insulin to give. And you know, it makes it slightly more difficult,
09:57but that's sort of what I'm used to at the moment. But I'm thinking about going on to
10:01a hybrid closed loop, which people are starting to do now, where you have an insulin pump,
10:07which a lot of people have an insulin pump rather than multiple daily injections,
10:10where it's something that's like attached to you, and it has the insulin within it.
10:15And it just gives you a tiny bit of insulin throughout the day, like drip feeds you insulin,
10:19basically. Oh, wow.
10:21But now they've worked out ways of linking up the Dexcom G7 with the insulin pump, so they talk to
10:27each other. So there is some way of the pump knowing that you need more insulin and delivering
10:33you more insulin. So I think when I was diagnosed, however many years ago, they said,
10:39oh, there'll be a cure within 10 years. And they still told people that, like right up until like 10
10:43years
10:43ago, I think they were like, there'll be a cure in 10 years, I'm sure. But now I think the
10:47future
10:48is a closed loop system that is essentially an artificial pancreas. So you don't, you won't need
10:55to check as much what your glucose levels are, it just all, it does it all for you. So that's
11:00the
11:00closest to normality, I think we'd ever get as type one diabetics. And I'm not, I'm not sure how
11:05quickly it's going to happen, that it's going to be really efficient, that you don't ever need to think
11:09about it again. But I think it will one day. What about your, your job as well, though, because
11:13that must really spike your adrenaline. And does that have an impact too? It can do. Yeah, 100%.
11:20When you get adrenalised, quite often, your blood glucose can, your glucose can shoot up because
11:27you go into fight or flight mode. So what your body's doing is it assumes that you're about to be
11:33chased
11:33by a T-Rex or something. I don't know, it's all caveman stuff. So it gives you all of that
11:38glucose
11:39to, you know, run away and panic. And then the issue is straight afterwards, once you relax,
11:45it'll start coming down again. So I know I can, I can see all that. Now I get, I get
11:50my alarms and
11:50I know to not panic and start injecting insulin massively before I go on stage. I've had situations
11:55before where I've been doing a show and had a low blood glucose, which is an absolutely horrible
11:59feeling. But now I'm a bit more across it now, which is great. Yeah. What happens if you have
12:04that kind of emergency? Is there sort of protocols in place that you know what to do? I just rush
12:08through the show. Right. Okay. Just get it done. Well, what's good about having it on my phone now
12:13because of Dexcom is that I will hear the alarm go off. Okay. And everyone in my audience knows I'm
12:19type one diabetic. Yeah. So I can just tell them. And they're actually quite interested to find out
12:23about it and learn. And also my tour manager, Paul, is a wonderful man and he's very across this as
12:28well. He probably now knows as much about type one diabetes as I do because we're in the car for
12:32hours together and they just tell him all the stuff. So yeah. Do you think you're quite in tune
12:36with your body though? Because I think some people aren't. I went to a really interesting talk recently
12:40and there was a doctor who said 65% of people are not very good at tuning into their own
12:45heartbeat.
12:45They just, they can't notice signals in their own body. Right. Are you quite good at doing that?
12:50I think so. And I wonder if that is connected to being type one diabetic that certainly, you know,
12:55I know what certain foods do to me. I mentioned that already. And also I know, I know the feeling
12:59of having a low glucose level. I know the feeling of having a high glucose level. So I wonder whether
13:04that's made me more in tune with my body in general. What does it feel like for you? Does it,
13:08do you feel nauseous or do you feel uncomfortable? The low glucose level is like shake, a bit shaky
13:13and sort of a bit, a bit sweaty. And those, those levels are the ones to worry about immediately.
13:19Those are the ones you need to deal with and have some glucose to bring the level back up
13:23to normal. Whereas the high glucose levels, you feel a bit fuzzy and a bit tired and a bit thirsty.
13:29And you know, they're not the ones you just, you need to do something, otherwise you're going to pass
13:34out or whatever, but you've got to deal with them because consistently over time, that's when it can
13:38cause trouble. And that's like, I think if I didn't have something like the G7, I'd be in trouble
13:44because you know, you're constantly checking it. And sometimes you're just like, I can't be bothered.
13:48I'll just leave it. I'll leave it high for now. But now I can be a lot more on it,
13:52which is great.
13:52Do you carry snacks around with you? Have you got go-tos? All the time.
13:55Because I've got a friend who always has a little bag of what she calls her fainting snacks.
13:58Yeah. And no blood sugar snacks, which I think is a very charming way of putting it.
14:03Yeah. I've always got these like gummy sweets with me that are really good. And I think,
14:07I think they're made for like long distance cyclists. Okay.
14:10Like, so the easiest way to basically get, to get glucose into you. Yeah.
14:14And then normally what I'll do, if I'm having a hypo, low blood glucose level,
14:19I will have immediately absorbing glucose. So something like that to try and get the level
14:24back up and then a little snack afterwards to maintain it throughout the day. So I've always
14:29got like a protein bar because I've fallen for the protein thing, by the way.
14:33I like a protein bar. I mean, I don't think it's the end of the world. We did,
14:37we did have Joe Wicks on this podcast and he was explaining to us why he wanted to make that
14:41documentary. And I, you know, I really get it. Yeah.
14:44But I also think balance is essential and sometimes I eat protein bar.
14:48Yeah. I think it's fine. Yeah.
14:49But you've been very clear on educating people about the difference between type one and type
14:55two as well. So obviously type two can be influenced by lifestyle factors.
14:59It can be, but I've, I've also been schooled by many type twos in the past as well,
15:03because I think the, I think the stereotype about type two is it's always lifestyle induced,
15:09which is just not true. I actually think it's way, the percentage is way lower than
15:13people know. You know, it can just, it can be genetic. It can be, you know, later on in life,
15:17you know, older people get it. And that's more to do with insulin sensitivity. Your pancreas
15:21is still producing insulin. Whereas my pancreas is an absolutely useless bit of kit. It's completely
15:26dead. It's just floating around in there. So, uh, so yeah, there are, there are differences,
15:31differences, but we're, we're all in the same family. I don't want to turn this into jets
15:34v sharks. No, of course. Um, but am I right in saying that type one is classed as an autoimmune
15:40disease? Yes. So it's, it's living with a chronic illness essentially. Yeah. I've, I think I've always
15:45resisted the, uh, the illness label because quite often I, you know, I don't feel ill because of it.
15:52And it's just something I have to manage really. Uh, I know I, you know, the, the days are very
15:57different sometimes and I just constantly have to be on it. So I, you know, I say condition or,
16:02uh, or superpower. Yeah. If you want to, but I think it's interesting because the more we talk
16:08about chronic illness now, it doesn't look a particular way. Lots of people have different
16:13issues. I've got an endocrine disorder means I'm always really tired, but you wouldn't think,
16:18oh, she looks ill. Yes. Look at me. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, it's one of those things, I guess,
16:22the more we're able to educate people about, you know, what it's like to live in different bodies
16:27and, you know, how we show up in our jobs and what we do the better, which is kind of
16:30why we're doing
16:30this podcast. Yeah. That's nice. But you've also been really great, I think, at talking about certain
16:35things in your shows with levity that are quite heavy, things like male body image and mental health.
16:41Did you ever think when you decided to become a comedian that you might be a voice for those kinds
16:45of issues? No. And I sort of, I, when I started doing comedy, uh, the, the thing in comedy was
16:51like,
16:51just be as funny as you can. And then there was a huge shift, maybe a couple of years after
16:55I
16:55started doing it where a lot of people started doing very serious shows about very serious things.
17:00So I've always thought, oh, maybe, maybe I should be doing that. But funny is always funny is always
17:04the aim. But I think, and you're looking to talk about things that everyone's observed or everyone's
17:09going through. And I think that's the best way to do it for me is just to do it in
17:13a funny way as
17:13possible. And certainly when I wrote the book as well, that was more of an opportunity to talk about
17:18those things. Whereas my instincts on stage is normally just make a dick joke as quickly as
17:22possible. Yeah. But I do think the book does a really good job of balancing humour with serious
17:28stuff. But you kind of passed the point of feeling stressed out or kind of depressed or angry about
17:34it. Did you ever feel like that? Or is that something? Oh, very, yeah, very much. I really,
17:38I really felt that. I mean, certainly not when I was first diagnosed, because like I said, I didn't
17:42necessarily pay it the attention that it deserved. But then when I started to try and get on top of
17:46it
17:47and get the glucose levels under control and, and all of this and, and this is when I was starting
17:52to lose weight and trying to get on top of my lifestyle in general, also trying to get on top
17:57of my type one, it's an incredibly frustrating thing to try and get to grips with. And it feels
18:01like you need to limit your social activity, you need to just focus on this. And eventually, I think
18:06like with anything, you just you just find a balance. So it certainly doesn't stress me out as much
18:11anymore. But there are definitely days where I could really do without it. And it's, it's the
18:17worst thing to be doing seems like going into meetings or going on stage. And it's just playing
18:20up and you don't know how to deal with it. But yeah, it definitely does cause some some anxiety,
18:25but way less than it used to. Yeah, because I suppose as a young person,
18:28there's a feeling of it just not being fair. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it, you know,
18:32it isn't fair. No. And wanting to kind of, like you say, do social things and go out with your
18:38friends. And I mean, if you are a similar age to me, you probably lived through the era of
18:44everyone just going out and getting blind drunk, binge drinking, like, that must have been quite
18:49difficult with the amount of sugar and alcohol and trying to kind of hang out with your friends.
18:53Well, I mean, my, my compromise with the amount of sugar and alcohol is just red wine.
18:58Right. Okay. And of course, polyphenols supposedly good for you. Although we had an
19:04alcohol expert on this podcast, it was Professor David Nutt. And he's a really cool guy.
19:10I remember David Nutt. He's the one who was like, yeah, have an E. He was the drug
19:14star. Yeah. And you know what? I went to see him speak after all of that kind of big who
19:21-ha in the media.
19:22Didn't he say horse riding was more dangerous than ecstasy? Yeah, exactly. And he said,
19:25well, you know, these, these are the stats. Um, so I went to see him speak when I was at
19:30university
19:30and then full circle moment, he came on the podcast and he said, no amount of alcohol is safe. Yes.
19:36So you take your life into your hands. If you want to do it, do it. But you know,
19:40it's had great press and, um, you know, there's a lot of money behind it, but just know that it's
19:46not
19:46good for you. So who was the one glass of red wine a day is good for your heart person?
19:50Well,
19:50this is the other interesting thing. Can people stop lying then? Yeah. There's a lot of conflicting
19:55information, isn't there? This idea that, you know, there are antioxidants, polyphenols,
19:59all kinds of different things like resveratrol in grapes that are supposedly good for you. They
20:05extract them, they put them in skincare, they sell them back to us in expensive pots. Supposedly
20:09really good for us. But I don't know whether that's fermented grapes in wine or whether it is just
20:15the grape itself. Yeah. It all comes back to grapes. Yeah. We've talked a lot about grapes.
20:21I like a grape. Do you have any other, um, sort of wellness non-negotiables like outside of having
20:27a morning routine or doing anything really, um, you know, really intense? Is there stuff in your
20:32life that just keeps you at a happy baseline that you like to do? Well, I mean, it's so focused
20:36on
20:36type one diabetes. So there are, you know, certainly things that I wouldn't eat massive meals before
20:42I go on stage. There's certain things that I try and avoid eating on a regular basis. Like I'm a,
20:47I used to be a big pizza guy back in the day, but weirdly, I mean, for me, and I
20:51think a lot
20:52of type ones, pizza is pretty much the devil because it's high carb and high fat and you eat carbs.
21:01But
21:01if you eat carbs with high fat, it takes longer to absorb the carbs because the fat prevents the
21:05absorption of the carbs. So you're injecting for a certain amount of carbs, but then it doesn't get
21:10absorbed. So your blood sugar crashes after you've injected because there's no carbs to cover.
21:14And then later on it shoots up because the carbs get absorbed and the, uh, excess fat gets turned
21:20into, into glucose. So these are all things that I need to think about on a regular basis. So this
21:25is where it's not fair as well because pizza is one of the best foods there is. It truly is.
21:29And you
21:29know what? I just don't need it on a regular basis, but I still, I still enjoy pizza if I
21:33can,
21:33if I can be bothered with the extreme medical admin that comes with it. Do you kind of allow yourself
21:38those moments where you think I want to enjoy this cause I'm with friends or this is a particular,
21:44I don't know, like a special occasion. I'm just going to do it. Yeah, absolutely. And I think,
21:48you know, I think, I think that's a hurdle to get over with type one as well is it's important
21:53to be
21:53across it and it's important to be obsessed with it and make sure that you're handling it well.
21:58But then also I did go through a period where I'd be like, well, no, I'm not eating that. I'm
22:02not doing
22:02that. I probably won't come out because I know you're all eating this or whatever. And I definitely had a
22:06period of my life like that. And then you've just got to go, no, socializing and having fun with your
22:11friends is also incredibly important for your health. Of course. Um, so now I'm, I'm a lot more
22:17free with it. And as, as a diabetic, I can eat anything. I just need to do the correct admin.
22:22Yeah. You have a lot of wisdom with age, don't you? And I wonder, do you have any advice maybe
22:27for
22:27someone in their teens who's just had a diagnosis and is wrestling with that bit?
22:32Yeah. I mean, it's, I would say it just look after yourself, but do know that it's certain,
22:38it's certainly not the end of the world. And honestly, there, there are some benefits to it.
22:41I think you're going to be very in tune with your body and, and also there are lots of us
22:45out there.
22:45So just speak to other, speak to other type one diabetics.
22:48Yeah. The community element I think is really important. I think whatever you're going through,
22:51whether it is diabetes or mental health or hormones, you know, social media is kind of great
22:57for that. It's one of the good things about it.
22:58Yeah. And perfection is totally impossible. Yeah, that's true.
23:02It's the real thing to remember. And that's the thing it took me a long time to get over
23:06is if my glucose levels weren't between four and seven, which is the normal glucose level
23:12at all times, then I'd be really worried. I'd be like, well, what does that mean for my future?
23:16Because you hear loads of scare stories about what will happen to you and the side effects later
23:21on down the line if you don't, if you don't look after your type one levels. But as long as
23:26you're
23:26across it most of the time and you're dealing with the hurdles as they come up, that's what
23:30you should be doing. It's impossible to have perfection because you are being your own
23:35pancreas. You're controlling something that your body should be doing naturally. So perfection is
23:40totally impossible. Yeah. And even if you don't live with type one diabetes, I think perfectionism
23:44is quite a masochistic concept. Oh, totally. Yeah.
23:46I've certainly experienced that myself where I've really given myself a hard time in the past over
23:52not being able to achieve a particular benchmark that I've essentially imagined or created.
23:59Yeah. You know, it's come out of nowhere and we self-impose those rules a lot of the time and
24:03I think we can be quite hard on ourselves. You talk about being obsessive about weight and, you know,
24:08having quite obsessive behaviours. Do you think you're quite an obsessive person naturally?
24:12I am, yeah, yeah. I tend to go through massive hyperfocuses every couple of years and certainly
24:19for it when I started losing weight, that was definitely one of them. Like, I was very,
24:24very focused on doing it and then stopped focusing on that and then focused on it again
24:31and then got obsessed with trainers and now it's watches.
24:36There's always something, you know? Yeah. You've done things like CrossFit and have you done
24:39marathon training and that kind of thing in the past? Yeah, I've done the London Marathon twice.
24:43Gosh, okay.
24:45And yeah, I was doing CrossFit for a long time. I've stopped in the last couple of months.
24:48I don't know if this is the podcast to tell you all my health complaints.
24:52Please.
24:52But I've got something called a frozen shoulder.
24:55Oh, gosh. See, that's normally something that's quite common for menopausal women.
24:58Oh, well, and type 1 diabetics, apparently.
25:00And type 1 diabetics, okay.
25:01So this, basically, this hand I can't get behind my back at all.
25:06Gosh.
25:07So I'm quite scared about being arrested.
25:11Just in case.
25:12Yeah, just, I was just like, well, I'm going to have to explain to the policeman.
25:14Someone tries to slap the cuffs on.
25:17But yeah, it's really painful and like, and apparently it can last for like two years.
25:21So at the moment I can't really do the sorts of things I want to do exercise wise,
25:26which is really hard. Like, especially as I think I'd found a really good balance between
25:31eating what I wanted to an extent and enjoying food and also enjoying exercise.
25:35Hmm.
25:36And then just proceeding with that balance.
25:38But now I'm a little bit like, I'm starting to think I need to watch what I eat a little
25:42bit
25:42because I can't, I can't lift up heavy things anymore.
25:44Yeah.
25:45Yeah.
25:45Did you enjoy lifting weights?
25:46Was that like a need to do because you enjoy the food or did you actually really enjoy the process?
25:51I enjoyed the feeling of lifting weights and the feeling doing CrossFit,
25:54like you, you get exhausted.
25:56Like if you do like a big conditioning workout or a big weights workout,
25:59you, you see that workout before you do it.
26:02And you're like, well, there's no way any human being could do that.
26:04And then you just pick your way through it and you actually manage it.
26:06And that was an amazing feeling.
26:08Um, so I do miss, I miss the lifting weights.
26:10It's, it's a different sort of adrenaline and a sort of sustained high throughout the day,
26:14which is really good.
26:15Our, um, we were talking about CrossFit before we started recording and someone in the team
26:18called it type two fun.
26:20So apparently you get all of the benefits afterwards, but during it's horrible.
26:24Oh, it's horrendous.
26:25Yeah.
26:26It really is.
26:26Yeah.
26:27I've actually never tried CrossFit because it's not really my kind of thing.
26:30I'm more of a, more of a Pilates and yoga kind of gal.
26:33But I need to start doing that because I'm one of the least flexible people on the planet.
26:37Yeah.
26:37I mean that kind of, that's really good for longevity.
26:39Yeah.
26:39That kind of ability to move is, is really essential.
26:42If you want to live a long life where you've got a long health span as well, as well as
26:46a long lifespan.
26:46Well, at the moment I can't even move this up.
26:48I can't move this up.
26:51Well, I do think with that kind of thing too, everyone's got an opinion.
26:55So like, say you start talking about that online.
26:58You probably get loads of people in your comments saying, you should be doing this.
27:01You should be doing that.
27:03It's quite a noisy world.
27:04And I wonder as someone who has a podcast, do you feel that you've got quite good boundaries?
27:09Or do you feel like there's constant noise?
27:11There's constant people commenting and having an opinion on what it is that you're doing?
27:15Oh, there definitely is.
27:15But also I'm very stubborn.
27:17So, I mean, in terms of things like exercise and people saying you should be doing this,
27:20you should be doing this.
27:21There's no, there's no should.
27:22No.
27:23If you find something that you enjoy and that you can maintain,
27:26then that's, that's the dream really, isn't it?
27:27I do think it's interesting though, that now we've got this amazing wellness technology
27:31and lots of people do wear CGMs that aren't diabetic.
27:33You know, they're, they're using it because they're trying to be across different biometrics.
27:38Do you think people are kind of a bit too intense with that kind of thing?
27:41And maybe we can chill out a bit, you know, because if you don't have type one diabetes,
27:45you might not really need to be doing that kind of thing.
27:47Sure.
27:48I mean, I can't, I can't speak for these people if they want to,
27:50if they want to be across their health to that level, that's, that's up to them.
27:53That's up to them to deal with.
27:56But personally, I consider people who have CGMs who don't have diabetes,
28:00it's cultural appropriation, which is, which is, which, you know,
28:03it's the only time a white straight man can feel culturally appropriated, I think.
28:08Sure, you hang on to that.
28:11Non-diabetics wearing a CGM, it's my equivalent of jerk rice.
28:14Right, got it.
28:17No, I mean, they could, obviously, the technology is there.
28:20If they want to look after themselves to that extent,
28:23and they can deal with that mentally, then absolutely fine.
28:26Yeah.
28:26I mean, I wear a tracker and I think, you know, it's great because it's helped me
28:31figure out my relationship with my sleep, which was what was really terrible.
28:34And that was making me feel anxious all the time.
28:37And I mean, we all have these kinds of issues because we all have different types of jobs.
28:41I mean, I suppose with touring, you must go to bed quite late.
28:44Are you burning the candle at both ends as well?
28:46And is that something to keep an eye on?
28:47Yeah, yeah, definitely.
28:48I mean, it can be, it can be long days, getting up early for some stuff and then gigging at
28:53night.
28:53I've got one of those days today.
28:54So it is helpful, certainly having this equipment.
28:58And I'm sure having a tracker or tracking my sleep would help as well.
29:02But then sometimes that sort of stuff would make me anxious.
29:04I mean, like, well, I can't, I can't sleep properly.
29:07I'll just stay up all night thinking about that.
29:09Yeah.
29:09I mean, I did do that this week.
29:11I had a big talk and I couldn't sleep the night before.
29:13And then I was kind of obsessing over the number because I'd only got about four hours sleep.
29:17And I thought I won't be performing well because I've only had four hours sleep.
29:20But if I hadn't counted, I wouldn't have known.
29:22Yes.
29:22So it probably would have been easier.
29:23Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:24It is a tricky one.
29:26I mean, sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's not.
29:28I suppose it depends.
29:29Also, I think it probably teaches people things that I assume everyone knows,
29:34certainly about how your body reacts to food, because this is one of,
29:36obviously type one diabetes is very difficult to manage sometimes.
29:41But I think there are advantages to it.
29:43And I think one of the advantages is it's improved my knowledge of my relationship with food and
29:48how certain food affects me.
29:50And there's so much content online about wellness and optimisation.
29:55And I want to ask you about that too, because often control is a really big factor in this.
30:00You can't control everything.
30:02Yeah.
30:02And if you've got a long journey to go on because you're going on tour, every variable is not
30:06going to be something that's within your control.
30:08Do you think that people are kind of over-egging it with this mega optimisation and wellness
30:13culture where they're trying to control every single facet?
30:15Because you're someone that does have to deal with control on a regular basis because of the
30:20condition that you've got.
30:21Yeah, totally. And that's the that's the one thing I have to control. And it's for a very
30:26important reason, because if I didn't control it, there would be very serious consequences.
30:31And, you know, obviously, ideally, I wouldn't I wouldn't have to do that.
30:35And I think sometimes people maybe look for things to control or look for things to worry
30:39about that they don't necessarily need to worry about. And I understand that there's just there's
30:43more and more technology and people are excited about it and they can they can work out,
30:48you know, issues or they can, you know, sort out other little things to control.
30:51But the technology is going to keep coming out.
30:54Once you get on top of one thing, I think they're just going to be like that, but you've got
30:57to worry
30:58about this. And by the way, you do need to spend hundreds of pounds to work out how it's going.
31:01Yeah, it's very trend led as well as something that I've noticed. Like for a while,
31:06everyone was obsessed with blood glucose, whether or not they had diabetes,
31:09and they were obsessed with HIV. HIV was the thing. Then it was VO2 max.
31:14Yeah. And there's all these different variables that people are really interested in. But you've
31:18got to ask yourself, what does this do for me? Because your body is not the same as somebody
31:23else's. And I think that's a really important distinction to make.
31:26Also, what's great about bodies is they do tend to tell you if something's wrong.
31:30Yeah.
31:30So if you don't feel like something's wrong, it might be it might be all right.
31:34Like, you know, I don't know my VO2 max, but I know at the moment I've got a bad shoulder.
31:39You know, I don't I don't I don't need a piece of tracking equipment to tell me my shoulder hurts.
31:42I think it's quite easy to fall into that, though, because especially if you are a social media user,
31:48it depends what algorithm you fall into. But then it's just constant. There's so much noise.
31:53And I think at the moment, like weight management, weight loss, GLP ones, like,
31:57it's really easy to slip into obsessive behaviors where you might be weighing yourself a lot,
32:02or you might be thinking about your body. You might be comparing yourself to other people
32:06and the way they look online, particularly if they're using filters, their body isn't real,
32:10using steroids. Yeah. And I would say I've noticed as well in the last few years
32:15that is the same for men as well, which it didn't it didn't used to be. But now it is
32:21like sometimes
32:22my algorithm is just like loads of ripped lads. Yeah. So I don't remember asking for this.
32:28No, we will just say everything sometimes. I get that. And I think I didn't. Yeah,
32:32I didn't ask for any of what I'm saying. I mean, they look lovely. Well done.
32:35But, you know, I've, I've been through, you know, I've done like a whole like body transformation
32:40thing where you go to a personal trainer four times a week and you, you stick to this very
32:45specific diet. And, you know, I looked, I looked, you know, toned and in, in a certain shape.
32:51But now, so now having done that, I just look at pictures of men who look like that and go,
32:56your life is horrible. Yeah, it's intense, right? The training schedules, the counting your calories,
33:01like all that kind of stuff. You kind of have to balance living a joyful life. Yeah.
33:05With wanting to look a certain way, don't you? Yeah. And you can't, I don't, you can't look like
33:09that and be a food lover. Yeah. In my mind or some, a food lover who actually indulges something that
33:15they love because it's just hungry all the time. It's so cold. Yeah. The idea of meal prep for me
33:22has
33:22never been something that's appealed. And often, you know, as a wellness editor, I speak to personal
33:27trainers and I speak to people who kind of give me great advice and I, I really appreciate it.
33:32But then I think, I just want to eat pasta. Yeah. It's lovely, isn't it? It's really nice.
33:38I've drawn the line at TikTok. I don't have TikTok. No, good for you. I decided I was, when it
33:43started
33:43becoming a big thing, I was like, I know, I'm just, I'm too old for this. Instagram will be the
33:47last social media platform I download. And also I hear people going on TikTok. It sounds like a panic
33:53attack. They're just constantly scrolling through it and it's like, like an intense music track and
33:57then someone waffling on about something and then a cat farting and it's just like, and they're not
34:01even watching the whole thing. They're just going through it. That can't be good for the brain, can
34:04it? I couldn't agree more. And you know what? He doesn't know on TikTok, but my partner does it on
34:08Instagram where he'll kind of be going through stuff because I'm not watching it. I'm just hearing
34:12the bursts of noise and you're right. It is really anxiety-inducing. Yeah. It's not something I enjoy.
34:17I, yeah, I'm very superior. I don't have TikTok. And then the other day my wife came in and I
34:23was
34:23watching YouTube shorts. She was like, you know, that's just TikTok, but you're getting it six
34:27months later. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't watch, I don't watch TikTok. I watch YouTube shorts.
34:32Yeah. Delayed gratification. Yeah. It's such an old man thing to do.
34:36But it's weird, isn't it? Because there are certain social media platforms that they say are
34:40better suited to particular demographics. So if you're a millennial like us, you're probably on
34:46Instagram. If you're a boomer, you're using Facebook. The things on Instagram which are
34:50people's daily routines drive me up the wall. It's like, well, if that's genuinely your daily
34:55routine, you are really boring. A lot of them are rage bait, I think, though. Yeah, do you think?
35:00You see some of them and just think, you're purely doing this for engagement because there's no way.
35:06Like some of the kind of morning sheds that you see women doing where they've got mouth tape,
35:11head mask, the head wrap, the collagen mask, the eye, under eye things.
35:15The mouth tape is so funny to me.
35:18And then they've got a thing underneath. I mouth tape though.
35:19Do you? Yeah.
35:20It's so funny.
35:21Because I know that I mouth breathe and I get really dry throat and it affects my voice the next
35:28day.
35:29And also I've got like, it helps me, because I've got like funny nostrils,
35:34like it helps me sort of train this nostril to be better.
35:37So you're nostril training, essentially.
35:39I'm nostril training. Yeah, guys, get across it.
35:42But I think it's effective, but I don't do it every night. And there have been nights where
35:48I have woken up and freaked myself out and thought I was choking. So word of warning.
35:51Or you've been kidnapped. That's what I'd worry about. Waking up with a tight mouth,
35:55going, oh my God, who's got me?
35:56I know. It is a bit freaky. And certainly I think sometimes there will be moments where
36:03my partner will be asking me a question and I can't speak to him. And he's worried,
36:07because he's like, she passed away in the night? Like, why is she not replying to me?
36:11Oh, she's taped over her own mouth willingly.
36:13Yeah, she's done that.
36:15Yeah. Oh, she's put a bag over her head and tied her hands behind her back.
36:17And that's all her. Whatever she wants to do for wellness.
36:20Yes.
36:21Oh, I think some of us do have some weird habits. But also, I think we have it kind of
36:26thrust
36:26upon us in a weird way. People message me all the time about weird trends and part of my job
36:31was trying them. So I will go out on a limb and do it. Yeah.
36:34Some things have worked for me, some things haven't.
36:36What's the weirdest thing that you have actually adopted into your life?
36:40It's a good question.
36:41Mouth tape's pretty weird, by the way, but I know a lot of people do it.
36:44You might like this one, rebounding. So it's basically jumping on a mini trampoline.
36:50It's really good for...
36:51It's not breaking up with your partner every day and then coming back again.
36:54No. The rebound. No, although I feel like that sounds quite toxic and not very wellness.
37:00I... Well, there's been heatwave recently and I basically every night broken up from my wife
37:05before we go to sleep so she won't touch me and then get back together in the morning.
37:09Um, yeah, no, rebounding is jumping up and down on a little trampoline.
37:12It's good for bone strength. It's good for joint strength.
37:15Um, it's good for your leg muscles. It's good for your calves. They say you should do calf raises every
37:20day.
37:20Wasn't that a thing in the 70s as well?
37:22Everything comes back around. This is the weird thing. We are...
37:25Are we going to get those, you know, when people have those machines that like a belt around them
37:28and then it basically just jiggles?
37:30That's a thing now.
37:31Is it?
37:31Yeah. And they've enhanced the technology and they will put it on, you know,
37:37here or on your bum or wherever and it delivers electronic pulses,
37:42but way more effective than these kind of slender tone belts were.
37:46Yeah.
37:46That everyone's moms were wearing.
37:47But I do also think there are fantastic people of influence online.
37:51You know, there's great doctors that you can follow now.
37:53Um, you know, even yourself talking about things like diabetes online.
37:57It's really helpful for some people.
37:59Yeah, this is what I found.
38:00And that's certainly not why I started talking about being type one, uh,
38:04in my shows or in the book or anything like that.
38:06I did it because it's,
38:07it's quite nice as a comedian to have something to talk about that no one else really is.
38:12Like I, aside from type one diabetes, I'm pretty much,
38:15when I started doing comedy, I'm the default comedian.
38:17I'm a, I'm a white, straight, slightly posh man.
38:20Like there's a lot of us out there.
38:21So to find, to find an angle that no one else has the dream,
38:25even if it does require managing a chronic condition.
38:28Sure.
38:29I mean, you win some, you lose some.
38:30But I found once I started talking about it,
38:32I got a lot of messages from people saying I'm type one diabetic.
38:35Thank you very much for talking about it,
38:37because it's very easy as a type one diabetic to feel quite alone with it
38:41and feel like people don't understand it.
38:43And you're having to deal with this thing all of the time.
38:45So it's really, really helpful to talk to other type ones.
38:48Like whenever I go and do like an event for a type one charity,
38:53or, you know, chat to other diabetics,
38:55I feel like a weight lifted off me a little bit,
38:57because it's very easy to think I'm messing this up.
39:00I'm not doing it well, because it's,
39:02you're trying to maintain something that doesn't want to stay the same every day.
39:06And you kind of, you take on a sort of an almost moral feeling that you're screwing it up,
39:12and that you're making problems for yourself further down the line,
39:14even if you're trying your hardest.
39:16And then you speak to another diabetic and they're like,
39:18oh yeah, that happens to me all the time.
39:19And perfection is totally impossible with it.
39:22That's why community is so important though, isn't it?
39:24Because I think any health condition or, you know, even just mental health,
39:29you talk to someone and you're like,
39:31oh, I feel like I'm not doing very well at the moment,
39:33because I'm failing at this or I'm failing at that.
39:35And they'll say to you, I feel exactly the same.
39:37And all of a sudden you think, oh, I'm actually not that bad
39:40because everyone else is going through it.
39:42Yeah.
39:42I think that's what a problem with social media, obviously,
39:46is that perfection thing of people are only posting their victories.
39:50And then people realise that we can post our flaws online.
39:55But then that somehow got co-opted into it's all very squeaky clean.
39:59And like, we all need to talk about mental health, guys.
40:02You're like, no, I don't want to talk about it with you.
40:04You seem really annoying.
40:06You're not messy enough for me.
40:07I can't relate.
40:09Sorry.
40:10It's not a mental health problem if you've put a ring light on.
40:13Right.
40:13Okay.
40:17It's funny though, because I see so much of that kind of content on social media.
40:22And sometimes it makes me feel good.
40:24Sometimes I can relate.
40:25And you're right.
40:26Sometimes I do think it seems quite overproduced.
40:28And therefore, I am a bit turned off by it because I think, well, maybe we're not the same.
40:34Yes.
40:35But you're not going to relate to everyone.
40:37Totally.
40:37Yeah.
40:38And I think health and wellness is very broad too.
40:40You know, when we talk about wellness, we could be talking about CrossFit,
40:44or we could be talking about meditation.
40:46Yeah.
40:46There are, you know, there's a broad spectrum.
40:48Well, these are other things I need to try, really.
40:50Because I think, to me, exercise is you've got to feel pain the next day.
40:57Right.
40:57Okay.
40:57But as it is, I mean, I'm getting older now.
41:00And just CrossFit is an absolute injury farm sometimes.
41:03Yeah.
41:03Do you think you'll be doing it for a long time?
41:05Because some people are, you know, they're doing it well into their sort of 60s, 70s.
41:08Yeah.
41:09I'll definitely do some sort of weight-based training for as long as I possibly can,
41:13because, you know, I'm sure the weights will reduce.
41:15Well, that's what the longevity doctors say you should be doing.
41:18Yeah.
41:18They say you should be lifting and you should be doing zone two cardio every day.
41:22Yeah.
41:22Which is what I try to do with my dog every morning.
41:24Yeah.
41:24But that's a brisk.
41:25Which is just in zone two of London, right?
41:28Yeah.
41:28Just laps.
41:29Laps of zone two.
41:31Yeah.
41:31No, for anyone that doesn't know, it's like a brisk walk.
41:33So, you know, you'll still be able to have a conversation,
41:35but you'll probably be slightly out of breath.
41:37Yeah.
41:38Yeah.
41:39So, not that challenging, but good for your heart.
41:41I wonder as well whether you, do you have like a wellness routine?
41:45You know, do you get up, do you do certain things in the morning?
41:47Are they non-negotiables for you?
41:49My wellness routines tend to last 10 days.
41:52Right.
41:53So, the non-negotiables of getting up, necking a pint of water immediately,
41:58because otherwise I'm going to forget to drink water until lunchtime.
42:01And these are very basic things.
42:04Vitamins.
42:05But then sometimes I'm like, I don't know why I'm taking,
42:07I'm taking these because someone told me I should take them
42:10and they've not actually explained why and I don't know if they're doing anything.
42:13I mean, that's basically it.
42:15And then sometimes I eat breakfast and sometimes I don't.
42:17I go through real phases with it.
42:18I get very focused on doing it and then, you know, something will happen in my life
42:22where it means I don't do it for a bit and then I'll come back to do it, so.
42:25But the thing about habit as well is that you try, I think.
42:29Yeah.
42:29It's, you know, it's not that it needs to be perfect.
42:31And I know maybe you've said you're a perfectionist.
42:34You might struggle with that because I'm a bit like that.
42:36I think of it's not exactly how it should be.
42:38Yeah.
42:39I failed.
42:39What's the point?
42:40But actually, just trying a little bit and doing your best.
42:44Yeah.
42:44It's better than doing nothing at all.
42:46I have quite a severe morning routine, given the kind of person I am and the work that I do.
42:51Will you talk me through it, please?
42:52My own routine.
42:53I'm going to cherry pick from it.
42:55Okay.
42:56Well, I do.
42:56And I can't wait to tell everyone that you have to do, by the way,
42:59that what I love doing is learning about something in the next day, telling everyone
43:02that they need to be doing it.
43:03Listen, if you're not on this, guys, you're failing at life.
43:06I don't know what to tell you.
43:08No, I do things like I try to get morning sunlight in my eyes.
43:11I do a morning meditation.
43:12I'll get outside as quickly as I can.
43:14I'll do my zone two.
43:15So I'll walk with my dog and I'll do red light.
43:18So I've got like a red light hat and a red light mask.
43:20Red light hat?
43:21Yes.
43:22I've never heard of the red light hat.
43:23It's really good for hair growth.
43:24So I get my partner to wear it as well.
43:26Just, you know, better safe.
43:27Just in case, yeah, you've got to cover those bases.
43:29I've got to make sure the hairline stays intact.
43:31My wife's got the red light mask.
43:33Yeah.
43:33Which never fails to terrify me when I walk in and she's wearing it.
43:37They're quite uncanny, aren't they?
43:38Yeah.
43:38Really weird.
43:39I try to eat a, like a healthy protein rich breakfast because all you hear all the time,
43:44if you're a woman, is protein and lift weights, which is very cool.
43:48I think women lifting weights is, is awesome.
43:51Yeah.
43:51And I grew up in the era of try and be as skinny as you possibly can and don't be
43:56strong.
43:57And I think that kind of did us all a huge disservice.
44:00Yeah, I think so.
44:01Yeah.
44:01We want to be strong.
44:02We want to live well into old age and be able to pick things up.
44:06So it's, yeah, it's the weights.
44:07It's doing a workout.
44:08Yeah.
44:08My, my wife lifts weights and does all of that stuff.
44:12She's also a professional wrestler.
44:15So she's pretty, and now I'm injured.
44:17She's pretty much the strongest person in the house.
44:20And I'm very happy.
44:21I've not opened a jar in about six months.
44:23Does she want to come on this podcast?
44:25I would love to speak to her.
44:27So I'll probably buy a red light hat.
44:30That's what I'm going to take from your routine.
44:31I think they're really good.
44:32Do you have something that just helps you stay baseline and happy enough?
44:37Not perfect.
44:39My, my mantra that I do repeat to myself quite a lot is,
44:43well, you, you're doing it.
44:45Yeah.
44:46You're doing something, you know?
44:48Yeah.
44:48Like I used to, I'd go to the gym and I'd be like, well, this is,
44:51I'm not doing exactly what I wanted or the, I'm not doing this enough or I'm not,
44:55it's not heavy enough.
44:57But then I go, well, you came here, you walked here.
45:00So that's something, isn't it?
45:02As long as you're doing something, that's probably, that's probably enough.
45:05I think.
45:05I think that's brilliant.
45:06And it's a mantra that we can definitely all use ourselves.
45:09And it's certainly something I try to do.
45:11If I think I'm not doing enough, I'll think, well, yeah, I did something.
45:15Yeah.
45:15And I think perfection will never be possible because that's not how bodies work.
45:22And also, you know, they just keep bringing new things to worry about, right?
45:26You keep fighting.
45:27Like you can think, well, I'm nailing everything.
45:29And then someone says, how's your vagus nerve?
45:31And you're like, I don't even know what that is.
45:32Another thing to factor into the never ending list of things I need to perfect.
45:35Yeah.
45:36And I do think that there's a problem with wellness where if we're trying to fix ourselves,
45:42we therefore assume that we're inherently broken.
45:45And I don't agree with that.
45:47No.
45:47I think we're fine.
45:48Ed Gamble, thank you so much.
45:49Thank you so much.
45:50Thank you so much.
45:51If you enjoyed this conversation with Ed,
45:53I know you'll love this interview with clinical psychologist Dr. Julie Smith
45:57about perfectionism, self-judgment, and why constantly trying to optimize ourselves
46:01can actually make us feel worse.
46:03Thanks again for watching and we'll see you next time.
46:05And in the meantime, stay well.
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