00:07Mica, hoje em 12 Minutes, é o CIPRES's Deputy Minister
00:12for Migration e Internacional Protection, Dr. Nicolás Ioannidis.
00:17Sir, muito obrigado por estar aqui no Euronews.
00:19Meu prazer, obrigado por estar aqui.
00:20A CIPRES tem um acordo com o que ação de reformas mudanças
00:27deemed not to have the legal right to stay in the European Union.
00:31Some would say this is the most major hardline shift
00:34in EU migration policy in decades.
00:38When do you expect to see the results of this?
00:42Because we know that at the moment only 27% on average
00:45of the migrants ordered to return
00:47are actually returning to their countries of origin.
00:50Of course, this is a crucial matter for the European Union member states
00:56and our European citizens.
00:58So we wanted to conclude the negotiations
01:01with the European Parliament and the Commission
01:04in order to enact a legal basis,
01:08a new legal framework in order to increase the number,
01:13both the number and the rate of returns.
01:17Because as you rightly mentioned, the rates are low.
01:20And it is quite important to have an effective return system
01:27in order for the general, overall European migration policy
01:32to function properly.
01:35Thus, we believe that the missing piece
01:38of the EU Pact on Migration and Asylum,
01:40namely the return regulation that we agreed on on Monday,
01:45will contribute to the effectiveness of our migration policy.
01:49Let's get into the details of this.
01:52Because for our viewers at home, it might be a bit confusing,
01:55but this is about making sure that those people
01:58who are ordered to leave,
01:59because they don't have the legal right to stay,
02:01they have not been granted asylum,
02:03to go to their home countries.
02:05But isn't it true that the problem in many cases
02:07is that those home countries, the countries of origin,
02:11are not accepting those migrants back?
02:13And if so, what do these new rules do to tackle that issue?
02:17Well, this is part of the problem,
02:20namely countries that do not accept their nationals.
02:23The other problem, or aspect of this problem,
02:27is the fact that third-country nationals
02:31do not cooperate with member states
02:34in order to repatriate.
02:36Therefore, the new regulation envisages measures
02:41that would accept pressure on individuals
02:46to collaborate with member states.
02:49For instance, there will be stricter detention rules
02:53and law guarantee bans
02:55that will actually push, to put it this way,
03:00third-country nationals to work with member states
03:04and accept their repatriation.
03:06And when it comes to third countries
03:08that do not accept their nationals,
03:09we're actually discussing measures
03:11like trade agreements or visa measures
03:16in order to make those third countries
03:20to work with us,
03:21so as to improve the return rate.
03:23Yes.
03:24At the heart of this, obviously,
03:26are the new return hubs.
03:28So these would be centres that the EU can build
03:32in countries outside the EU,
03:34provided they strike a bilateral deal
03:36with that country in question.
03:38And any migrant that has rejected asylum
03:41could be sent there, essentially.
03:43Isn't there a risk that these people
03:45could become stuck in a legal limbo,
03:48for example, if their countries of origin
03:49do not accept them back?
03:51Well, of course, the main issue
03:53we've been trying to deal with
03:54is the fact that third-country nationals
03:57do not have a legal right
03:59to stay in the European Union.
04:01Therefore, they have to depart.
04:03So if they're not collaborating with us
04:06or the country of origin won't accept them,
04:10then we have to find a solution.
04:12And this solution is a so-called return hubs.
04:15And something that is quite important
04:17to everyone, to member states
04:20and the Commission,
04:21is that the human rights
04:22should be upheld and safeguarded.
04:25How will that be ensured?
04:26And that is why one of the means
04:29to ensure this
04:30is the engagement
04:32of international organisations
04:33such as the UNHCR
04:35and International Organisation of Migration.
04:38And, of course,
04:40we'll be monitoring the situation.
04:43We don't want to punish those people.
04:45We just want to make sure
04:48that those who have no right
04:49to remain in the European Union
04:51will depart
04:52and will protect our asylum systems
04:57from misuse.
04:58If there is a case
05:00where there is a return hub
05:01where basic rights
05:03are not being upheld,
05:04what then happens to these people?
05:06There will be safeguards
05:07in the agreements
05:10concluded between member states
05:12and the third countries
05:13hosting such centres,
05:17which will stipulate the details
05:19of what's happening
05:21in case there's a human rights violation.
05:24But in any case,
05:26these are still,
05:27there are no tangible results.
05:30We've just been discussing some ideas.
05:32But now that the regulation
05:34has been agreed,
05:37it will start delving into the matter
05:40in order to adopt more tangible measures.
05:46Because we are talking as well
05:47about children
05:47and accompanied children are excluded.
05:49But if they are with their families,
05:52they can also be sent
05:53to these return hubs.
05:55These miners, of course,
05:56cannot be blamed
05:57for being irregular migrants.
05:59They are miners.
06:00They are with their families.
06:02but yet they are being sent
06:03to these camps.
06:05Are you concerned
06:06about their safety,
06:08their well-being?
06:09Yeah, I mean,
06:10I mentioned that earlier
06:11that upholding human rights
06:13is a red line for everyone.
06:15We don't want any violations
06:17of EU and international law.
06:19But at the same time,
06:21we have to strike a balance
06:22between illegal stay
06:23and the need to uphold human rights.
06:27Therefore,
06:27before a family is being sent
06:30to an accommodation centre,
06:32a return hub,
06:33we will examine
06:34all relevant aspects.
06:36And one of them
06:37is the best interest of the child.
06:39So all these factors
06:40will be taken into consideration
06:43prior to receiving,
06:45to making a decision
06:46of sending families
06:48to return hubs.
06:49What would you say
06:50to those critics
06:51that say that
06:51with the fixation
06:52on irregular migration,
06:54that the EU is losing
06:55its moral compass?
06:57Well, I'll disagree with this
06:59because it's not just
07:00about irregular migration.
07:02And as a matter of fact,
07:04there are several provisions
07:05in the new EU Pact
07:07on Migration and Asylum
07:08that actually enhance
07:10the protection of individuals,
07:11such as the provision
07:12of legal counselling
07:14and the establishment
07:15of a monetary mechanism
07:16for human rights.
07:18And other than that,
07:19in parallel,
07:20we've been working on
07:21creating legal pathways
07:24for migration
07:24through concepts
07:26like the EU talent pool
07:28through our visa policies.
07:30We'd like to open up
07:31legal pathways.
07:33And this way,
07:34we believe that
07:35we will tackle
07:36the regular migration
07:37facilitated by
07:39criminal smacking networks
07:40because that's
07:41the main problem.
07:42Just briefly on the return hubs
07:43before we move on.
07:44Will the Cypriot government
07:46be looking to establish
07:47these hubs itself?
07:48Well, we haven't discussed
07:50this yet.
07:51Of course,
07:52there was no legal basis
07:53until recently.
07:54there have been
07:55some discussions
07:55within the union
07:58between member states.
08:01And now that we've got
08:03our legal basis,
08:04of course,
08:05we're interested
08:06in participating
08:07in discussions
08:08with other member states
08:09so as to find solutions
08:12and implement
08:13these provisions.
08:15Because we know
08:15there are five member states
08:16that already said
08:17that we're exploring this,
08:18including the Netherlands,
08:19Denmark, Germany,
08:21Greece and Austria.
08:24What countries do you think
08:26could be possible partners here?
08:29Because, you know,
08:30we are talking about countries
08:32that must have
08:32some kind of democratic standards,
08:34yet these are countries
08:35that are willing
08:36to accept
08:37these rejected asylum seekers.
08:40Who do you see
08:41as possible partners in this?
08:43Well, I cannot refer
08:45to specific countries,
08:46but what you described
08:47actually is what
08:49of the regulation envisages
08:51that the countries
08:53where return hubs
08:55will be established
08:56should safeguard,
08:59protect and observe
09:00human rights.
09:01So these are the criteria
09:03set by the regulation.
09:04I want to ask you
09:05about the situation
09:05of Cyprus.
09:06It could be described
09:07as a frontline state
09:08when it comes to migration.
09:10How concerned are you
09:11about instability
09:12in the Middle East
09:13and the potential impact
09:14on migration flows,
09:15particularly, of course,
09:16the situation in Lebanon?
09:17Well, indeed, Cyprus
09:19is a frontline member state
09:20that has received
09:21massive migratory flows
09:23over the last years.
09:24And that is why
09:25our government
09:26has adopted strict measures
09:29in order to reduce
09:30irregular flows.
09:30And we've actually
09:31managed to do so.
09:33We managed to reduce
09:34irregular flows
09:34by nearly 90%
09:37over the last three years.
09:38But as you mentioned,
09:39we're in a volatile region.
09:41So we always remain vigilant
09:44lest a new crisis erupts,
09:46a new refugee crisis erupts
09:49in the region.
09:50And, of course,
09:52unfortunately,
09:52we've seen conflicts
09:53in the region,
09:54in Iran, in Lebanon.
09:56So far,
09:57no migratory flows
09:59have been created.
10:01We've received no migrants
10:03from this region.
10:05And in any case,
10:06the new Pact on Migration
10:07and Asylum
10:10also stipulates measures
10:13for crisis management.
10:15It's the first time
10:16that we've got
10:17such a comprehensive
10:18legal framework
10:19in order to address
10:20this foreign issue.
10:21Finally, Minister,
10:23before we finish,
10:24there is now a discussion,
10:25and I know you'll be discussing
10:27this with your EU counterparts
10:28this week,
10:29about whether the EU
10:31should continue
10:32to provide temporary protection
10:33to Ukrainian men,
10:35young men,
10:36approaching
10:36the age of conscription.
10:39Do you think
10:40that there should be
10:41a shift
10:41in these rules?
10:44Because Chancellor Mertz
10:45of Germany,
10:45for example,
10:46has been calling on this
10:47to avoid a situation
10:48where men approaching
10:49the conscription age
10:50are leaving Ukraine
10:51in mass.
10:52Well, as you know,
10:55protection to Ukrainian citizens,
10:59Ukrainian nationals,
11:00has been extended
11:01for a year
11:02to spring 2027.
11:05But of course,
11:06we have to discuss
11:07the future,
11:08as you mentioned.
11:09And that's what
11:10we're planning on doing
11:12in Luxembourg
11:13in order to listen
11:15to member states,
11:16listen to their concerns,
11:18to their views,
11:18and discuss
11:19with the Commission
11:20the way forward.
11:22We've made
11:22no particular decisions
11:24so far.
11:26And it's a first-class
11:27opportunity
11:28during the Council
11:29to exchange views
11:31and somehow decide
11:34on the way forward
11:35regarding this
11:36important issue.
11:37But our support
11:39to Ukraine
11:40is there.
11:43Nothing has changed
11:45concerning this.
11:46But at the same time,
11:48we need to see
11:50how things will evolve
11:52in the coming years.
11:54OK, Minister.
11:55Thank you so much.
11:56Thank you.
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