00:05Now, five candidates are interviewing for the job of the Secretary-General of the United Nations.
00:10Incumbent Antonio Guterres finishes his term at the end of the year,
00:14and one of the contenders is Rafael Grossi, who's head of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
00:20He says that navigating some of the world's most sensitive nuclear crises has prepared him for the top job at
00:26the UN.
00:26Well, Grossi told our correspondent, Li Jianhua, what he thinks of the UN.
00:32The role of the UN is clear. The thing is whether it is fulfilling the role, and I think it
00:40is not.
00:41For a number of circumstances, it's not a particular person or country responsibility,
00:48but the reality is that when you look at today's international peace and security agenda,
00:54as I was saying, with wars in Europe, wars in Africa, in some parts of Asia,
01:00as well with conflict, Middle East, etc.,
01:04we can see that there is a common denominator, which is very, I would say, disappointing.
01:11Do you think we have entered an era where power outweighs international law?
01:17That is not new.
01:19That is not new.
01:21When you look...
01:22But do you think it's getting worse?
01:24It may be getting worse.
01:26It may be getting worse.
01:27In any case, it's something that needs to be addressed.
01:30The thing is whether in the UN we will have an instrument that will be able to mitigate conflict
01:37and to work towards a world not in total peace, perhaps, but in a better place.
01:45You remember this quotation that is often cited from one famous secretary-general
01:52that said that the United Nations has not been created to take us to heaven,
01:56but maybe better to prevent us from falling to hell.
02:00So, in this dichotomy that he is describing lies, perhaps, the essence of what the UN can do for all
02:10of us.
02:10How can you uphold multilateralism under the framework of the United Nations?
02:15Because without that, we can't reach any consensus.
02:18Look at the P5.
02:19Well, I would say, yes, the P5 are divided, are fragmented, but it is not...
02:25Some are saying now it's P3.
02:27And some P2.
02:30And you know what I mean by that.
02:32So, yes, these are realities, and the structure of power is not going to disappear.
02:38I'm a realist, so I recognize that these realities are going to be there,
02:44but at the same time that we have instruments to improve situations,
02:51to avoid the exacerbation of conflicts, and, of course, if possible, to stabilize conflicts.
02:59And this cannot be done by, sometimes, by the actors themselves.
03:05It may be the case, but the UN as a structure, as a buffer, can play a distinctive role.
03:13Otherwise, I would not be doing what I'm doing.
03:15The UN does not have power, or the Secretary-General does not have power.
03:19He has something different, which is authority.
03:22Do you think the authority has been undermined because of trust in the United States?
03:27The authority is there for you to exercise it.
03:32It's up to the, you know, in music, you have the music, you have to play it.
03:37The authority is there, the charter is there, the instruments are there to be exercised wisely and efficiently.
03:45But some countries are not really sticking to it.
03:50It may be the case.
03:51And what would you do?
03:53It may be the case.
03:54Well, you know, when we have a crisis and a nuclear power plant is seized and is under attack,
04:03I could say, I could throw my hands up and say, well, this is terrible.
04:08And there might be a nuclear accident, or you can get involved and prevent it.
04:13It may fail, or you may have a success.
04:16But you have to exercise your role in the dynamic, in the metabolism of that situation.
04:23Do you think your experience from the IAEA is applicable to this top job at the UN?
04:28Indeed, because it's about, of course, it's a narrower area.
04:33Although nuclear power and nuclear weapons and non-proliferation, I would say, is a pretty sensitive area in the international
04:41agenda.
04:42But setting aside that, what I'm trying to explain with this comparison analogy is that the methodology is the same.
04:50The methodology is a methodology of engagement.
04:54When the war broke out between Ukraine and Russia, I went to Russia and people were telling me, you shouldn't
05:02go to Russia.
05:03Why? I was saying, why?
05:04I need to talk to both the belligerents.
05:08My job as IAEA is to reach out to both and to see what can be done to avoid an
05:16incredible nuclear accident with radiological consequences.
05:20And this is what we did. Impartiality is not indifference. Impartiality means action which is not biased.
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