00:02Well, we're telling us a few things that, first of all, school leaders and teachers
00:06are saying that AI is well and truly in schools, it's here now, this is not a problem in the
00:11future. Second, they're echoing the research about the concerns that AI actually is not
00:16good for student learning, it's not a partner in learning, it is a substitute for learning.
00:21So students using AI, they're very concerned and the research shows that actually students
00:25don't learn when they're using AI like this and also about the integrative assessment.
00:30A lot of teachers and school leaders are highlighting that they have trouble picking when students
00:34are using AI, but they are using AI for assessment and that's causing problems in schools and
00:39I think has implications for the broader system.
00:42Yeah, I mean, it's hard to keep up with it, of course, but this review, it's calling for
00:46an urgent review of the use of take-home assignments in year 12, of course the final assessment
00:52year for students. Tell us, why is this so urgent and what can be replaced there to make
00:56sure it's not being used in that setting?
00:58Well, I think we just need to understand that in year 12, we're looking at the HSC obviously
01:03in New South Wales there and the assessments or the marks awarded, the grades given in HSC,
01:10obviously important for families and students. That is based on a mix of external assessments,
01:16normally exams say at the end of the year, for example, or in-school assessments. Those in-school assessments,
01:21students are obviously more susceptible to AI when they are perhaps not done under supervised
01:26conditions. So, there is already some talk and some concerns in education that people are concerned
01:33about this and if we start to lose faith in whether or not some students are using AI to get
01:38better
01:38marks and some students aren't, then we start to lose more faith in the system more broadly.
01:42What are teachers saying about the use of AI, their ability to spot it and am I missing the point
01:49there? Is it really move beyond just spotting AI?
01:52Well, I think teachers will tell us and told us in some detail that, you know, if students use it
01:58badly,
01:59then it's pretty easy to spot. Like, if they've used AI and it's really different from what they would
02:03normally write, then it's pretty easy to spot. But if you've used AI for a little while, you realise that
02:07AI is
02:08just getting incredibly good at mimicking or reflecting how you write, the vocabulary you use,
02:16the style of writing you use. So, if you say, I want to write like a year 11 student and
02:20you put in
02:21some examples of your writing, then it will give you back an essay that actually looks very much like
02:28something you've completed yourself. And teachers are saying that's very hard to pick. And trust me,
02:34we've done these tests a few times, it is almost impossible to pick.
02:38We know that AI is present in everyday life, but what do we know about the effects on education
02:43and students' learning and what you hope to come of this report?
02:47Well, I think the research is now showing very clearly that AI is not a partner in learning,
02:53it's a substitute for learning. The research uses the term cognitive outsourcing, where basically
02:57artificial intelligence short circuits learning for students. So, while they may produce assignments,
03:03essays and so on that look fantastic when it's being done by AI, they're not actually learning
03:08much at all. And so, therefore, they're going to fall down and those problems will compound over
03:13time. So, student learning could go even further backwards over time. What we hope we do is actually,
03:20therefore, raise awareness about this issue, highlight the need for further training and education of
03:25schools, teachers, school leaders, students and parents of the broader community. But also then,
03:31that's going to have to lead to changing of assessment programs in schools, changes of learning
03:36tasks, because we want to address the issue of AI, but therefore, we don't want to throw everything
03:40out. We don't want the idea that students should never do, say, long assignments or larger essays,
03:45because they might use AI. We just have to control for these effects and try and create probably an
03:52enriched learning experience, but it also accounts for the potential problems of AI use.
03:58Dr Ben Jensen, report co-author and CEO of Learning First, thank you for speaking with us this morning.
04:03Thanks, Gemma. Have a good day.
04:05you
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