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Podcast exploring the Royal Highland Show's commitment to sustainability
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00:03Hello I'm Rosemary Gallagher and welcome to our Sustainable Scotland podcast brought to you by
00:08The Scotsman. Scotland's national newspaper since 1817 may bring you fresh and relevant content
00:14for the 21st century. Sustainable Scotland looks how we're doing our efforts to be cleaner and
00:19greener for the next generation. In this episode, in partnership with Royal Helen Shoal, we're
00:25focusing on the sets been taken to encourage sustainability at the Shoal and in farming in
00:29general. Our guests are Hannah Lermond, Royal Helen Centre Event Manager on Special Projects, who's the
00:34venue's environmental lead, and John Jimmison of Upper Lockerwoods Farm, an organic dairy farm in
00:39Rothwell near Dumfries. John is also Dairy Director at this year's show. Would you both please introduce
00:44yourselves and tell me a bit about your roles, your background and your involvement with the show?
00:48Hannah, can we start with you please? Yeah, so I've been with the society for about eight years now
00:54and I've kind of moved between roles in the Royal Helen Centre, the venue side and the Royal
01:00Helen Show, the organising team. So I used to be an event manager for the Royal Helen Show organising
01:08team and just recently I've moved back to the venue side for more of a project role looking at things
01:15like sustainability, accessibility, but still with a big involvement in the Royal Helen Show.
01:20Thank you Hannah. Over to you John. Yes, thank you. John Jimmison and I am an organic dairy farmer from
01:34Dumfriesha
01:35and the family, we have a family farm, Upper Lockerwoods and we've farmed at Upper Lockerwoods since 1952.
01:47We farm, it's primarily dairy under an organic system. We have 260 Pedigree Holsteins and we've always been involved
02:00with showing and promoting our dairy herd, hence my involvement with the Highland Show and probably
02:09the reason I'm involved today is that in October we were very honoured to be awarded Sustainable Farm
02:21of the Year at the Scottish Agricultural Awards. So that was a huge honour to be recognised for many of
02:34the things we
02:35we have always been interested in creating habitats and wildlife corridors and water margins on the farm
02:45and we also have created footpaths for the local community and we also made land available five years
02:56ago for allotments. So we've always enjoyed interacting with the local community.
03:06Thank you John. Congratulations on your award, it sounds well deserved from all you're doing there
03:10of sustainability and John could you explain to you what the Royal Highland Show is and what it means to
03:14you?
03:19Yes, my association with the Highland Show has been forever. I have always enjoyed attending the Highland Show
03:29as a spectator, exhibitor and now as a director and always keen to support the Highland Show. It is so
03:39important
03:40to the rural community and farming community and I think it's important that we all congregate
03:51and share our interests once a year at the Highland Show. It has so much to offer everyone really, whether
03:59you're
04:01into farming or into rural life, there's all sectors to entertain everyone over the four days and as I say,
04:13over 200,000 people are proof of that annually and it is important for people to engage together
04:22and the Highland Show. It's all about friendship and enjoyment and sharing all the things that we love about agriculture
04:31and as I say, I'm involved with the livestock sector and primarily the dairy
04:39and people just love to see all the breeds and all animals over the over the four days and it's
04:49just a
04:50great value for money and a great experience for everyone. Thanks John, sounds great. Yeah,
04:58so the Royal Highland Show is a great event. It takes place over four days in the middle of June
05:03and we have
05:04over 200,000 people on site during that time which is massive. There's lots to do from an agricultural
05:14section as well but even if you're not from the agricultural world there's also a lot of things
05:20that if you're from more of a rural urban setting that you'd be interested in as well. So we have
05:26music, the best of Scottish provenance, we have an arena showing demonstrations from workers in the
05:36forestry industry, we also have an arena that shows the best of country living as well and so there's
05:43absolutely loads to do if you're thinking of coming along this year. So are you looking forward to this
05:47year's show both of you? I know it's not far away now until it all starts so Hannah how excited
05:52and also
05:53very busy are you at the moment? Yeah no this is always a bit of the kind of crazy time
05:59and it's always a
06:00bit manic but we're definitely on track and it's really exciting that it's just around the corner.
06:05And John I think you're busy obviously day to day with your farm but are you looking forward to this
06:09year's show and being the Dairy Director? Yes as I say that is my passion in showing and exhibiting
06:19dairy cattle so we've always had a strong connection with the show and as director I'm happy to lend a
06:28hand
06:28and try to make it as enjoyable an event for everyone involved.
06:38It's always a great day out and I think you've probably answered this question already in terms of
06:42how important is sustainability to you given what you've explained you're doing but John could you
06:46just sum up how important it is to you and has that grown over the years? Obviously you've been an
06:51organic
06:52farm for a long time because it's becoming higher up the agenda to be fully sustainable.
06:56Yeah it's encouraging that it's become more topical within the industry sustainability and how important
07:07it is it probably didn't get the focus that it deserved in the past so the recognition from the
07:17industry that that is the way forward as long as it's in harmony with the farming industry I think
07:26that's important. It must be a difficult balance at times and Hannah from your point of view and your
07:32role just how important is sustainability to you? Yeah I think it's really important it's events it's
07:39important now that events are now incorporating sustainability into their planning as previously
07:45I think events had quite a bad reputation they produced a lot of waste created a lot of carbon
07:51emissions and would bring a lot of temporary infrastructure in so I think it's great now
07:55that the industry is starting to think about it a lot. Thanks Hannah and that brings me on to
08:00the next question just in terms of what sustainable initiatives you have in place for the show
08:04and the Royal Highland Centre in general because I know you did a lot around the summer sessions
08:08last year if you could explain a bit more about what you're doing there that'd be great.
08:11Yeah so we do we have a really good relationship with our public transport partners and for all our
08:18large events we have a dedicated lobbying bus service from the city centre and are also our
08:24venues close by to tram stop. So like you said an event that's doing great things around sustainability
08:30is Edinburgh Summer Sessions which we have back here in August. So last year Edinburgh Summer Sessions was the
08:37most sustainable event the promoter had ever put on which is an amazing accolade to have at the venue here
08:45and so their their carbon emissions were 41 percent lower than the average UK music festival
08:51which is just outstanding and they did this through things like they had a hydrogen generator
08:57and they reduced the waste per customer and increased the use of public transport
09:04and also I think as well it helped having it at our venue due to all the permanent facilities we
09:10have
09:10in place here. Thanks Hannah that sounds a great achievement and obviously there's big opportunities
09:16as well as challenges around sustainability what are the what are the main ones for you at the moment?
09:21Yeah so I think like I said the Royal Highland Centre is a great venue to help produce sustainable events
09:27due to we've got a large volume of permanent buildings toilet blocks hard sanding and also in-house
09:33electricity so it just means less temporary measures are needed. At the venue we have so all our
09:40flushing water in our toilets is grey water so this comes from a rain tank rain water tank that holds
09:471
09:47million litres so the tank is filled by an underground borehole from a natural stream that runs under the site
09:56so at the Royal Highland Show specifically our toilet blocks are flushed an average of 360 000 times throughout
10:04the whole event which I can't even comprehend how much that is and we also we use a full the
10:12full rainwater
10:12tank every day of the event so it's four million litres which is this massive. So our pavilion as well
10:19that turns into our members village at the Royal Highland Show that's got 75 solar panels on the roof so
10:26that helps to power the building. I think one of the challenges that we're facing is looking to introduce
10:34reusable cups as a venue project and I think obviously it sounds great and it's a really good initiative to
10:42get behind but unfortunately sometimes it can be it's quite logistically hard to put in place and it can
10:49be quite expensive and there's quite a big educational piece for our customers as well just getting them
10:55on board to actually follow the process. Yeah I was going to ask more about that in terms of customers
11:01do they ask more about sustainability now or is it still not something they're thinking about that
11:05much and one thing you mentioned to me was car parking and just encourage people to travel to the
11:10site of the show by public transport what more can you do there what should consumers be thinking about
11:16do you think? Yeah I think they should be thinking about their their carbon footprint and one of the
11:21things we do encourage when you're coming to the show is to take public transport I mean we have
11:28this great transport hub that's right outside our east entrance and it's got buses that come from the
11:33city centre and from local train stations and and we've also got a shuttle bus that goes back and
11:39forward from the tram stop so we've got all these great resources there to make things easier for
11:45people to get get to the show and all our communication that goes out you know we're really
11:50trying to promote the use of public transport rather than traveling by car. Yeah that sounds like
11:56challenges to get people to switch their behavior yeah as well as visitors obviously work with so many
12:02suppliers and your exhibitors and what do you have to encourage them to be sustainable I know you've
12:07mentioned to me before you've got charters in place your food charter and you've talked about how
12:11you deal with waste can you expand a bit more on those sort of areas? Yeah so I think the
12:17thing we're
12:17most proud of is the RAS food charter so we introduced that in 2014 and our ambition is to have
12:23catering
12:24options available at the Royal Helen Show that showcase the best that Scotland has to offer
12:29and we want to give visitors the best experience to recognize and promote Scottish provenance
12:36and so it's a three-tier system of compliance and all our caterers are audited before and during the event
12:43so we say that all caterers must try to source Scottish produce which is where the three-tier system comes
12:51in
12:51and this is something that we try and then promote out to our customers to encourage them to support local
12:58as well
12:59and in terms of waste so our cleaning and waste contractor is immediate waste so they try and promote a
13:07zero to
13:08landfill scheme and instead promote the reuse and recycle so everything that gets all the waste that gets collected at
13:18the
13:18Royal Helen Show is then taken off site and segregated so there's things like aluminium cans that they'll
13:25remove and they'll be sold on to commodity markets and we'll come back to something else and things like
13:32pallets and wood will be reused and then we also if there's any residual waste so anything that can't be
13:39recycled or reused will be incinerated and used as electricity and steam for local projects which I think is
13:46really lovely you know the Royal Helen Show is a fundraising event for RAS so it's nice that from
13:50that then we can give something back to local charities as well. That sounds great Hannah and
13:57obviously a lot going on there a lot of a big logistical yeah I think what's on the agenda for
14:03you then there's lots happening already what are the kind of big priorities for you coming up for this
14:06year's show and the centre as a whole and looking forward? I think we're just we're looking to work
14:12with our waste companies more public transport companies more and just to see what else we can
14:18do and what other sustainable initiatives are out there that are bigger and better and and also
14:25as I said before when we've got DF concerts and the Edinburgh summer sessions coming back in August as
14:31well so we're working really closely with them with new initiatives as well. So lots to look forward to.
14:37Yeah definitely. Over to you John at the front line in farming and can you tell
14:44a bit more about being an organic dairy farm and just a bit more about your history and your focus
14:48on sustainability and how that's developed and evolved over the years? Yeah we made the decision in 1999 to convert
15:01to organic farming mainly to add value to our milk and also investing in a more sustainable future for our
15:12family and our farm. Organic conversion is a very slow process and it can be challenging but also very rewarding
15:29so obviously the land and the animals have to evolve to a completely new system so as I say it
15:42does take time. Now we are part of an organic group of dairy farmers in Scotland, 18 farms and we
15:58created a group of Scottish organic milk producers and when we started and that was to promote
16:07organic milk to increase sales which was a great success. We ourselves produced 2.4 million litres of organic milk
16:21per year
16:21and that sold through Muller and they will supply many of the main supermarkets. So if you look for the
16:36saltire on your organic milk carton then that will guarantee that that organic milk has come from a Scottish farm.
16:46So yeah it's been very rewarding and as I say it's been a bit of a success
16:56story in Scotland promoting organic milk. That sounds great. I'll look out for saltire the next time I'm buying my
17:02milk.
17:02Yeah good for you.
17:04Have you seen demand for organic milk increase a lot from the supermarkets and therefore from Muller has that increased
17:10over the years?
17:11Yeah they're seeing about 1 to 1.5% increase in sales each year and they're keen to promote mainly
17:23the producers that are organic just now to try and produce more in the future but it's not easy when
17:32you have to grow your own organic produce and forage.
17:36So but it's very encouraging. So no everything's very positive and Muller have been very good at encouraging the farms
17:50and the extra production.
17:53That all sounds very promising and thanks John. In terms of working with suppliers can you explain how you ensure
17:59they are sustainable? I believe you've got organic certification that they have to meet certain requirements, is that right?
18:04Yes, it's going to be organically certified whether anything comes from this country or from anywhere in the world it
18:16has to be properly certified and have all the appropriate paperwork.
18:21So and I know we're out of the EU now but we still work by the same standards, in fact
18:30probably more stringent standards than the EU now in the UK.
18:36So it's basically protecting our future. So we've got to have credibility to reassure the customers that it is what
18:53it says in the tin, as the saying goes.
18:57Thank you. In terms of your involvement with Royal Highlands Show, obviously you're very involved as Dairy Director. Tell me
19:03more about that and what that involves and how your farm's been part of Royal Highlands Show over the years
19:08and your family.
19:10Yeah, my grandfather even in the 1930s exhibited at the Highlands Show. So I think he would be champion in
19:211938 and then father would be champion in the dairy section in 1954 and then myself, we were champion in
19:341991.
19:34So we've been there or thereabouts over the years and always enjoyed supporting the Highlands Show.
19:44But in those days, prior to 1960, of course, the show travelled round Scotland. So that was, I think, both
19:57times we were champion, we were actually champion when the Highlands Show was at Dumfries, which was on home ground.
20:04And you could say.
20:06Well, success then, yeah. And your son's now involved in the farm, is that right?
20:13Yes, we're fortunate with Graeme. He's home now and he's probably even more keen than I was at the same
20:23age for organic farming. So we do costings and benchmarking. So he's keen that it's a profitable business, although, you
20:33know, organic and sustainability is important.
20:39But they've also to be backed up with a profitable farm.
20:44Is that quite a difficult challenge, especially given the pressures on materials and rising costs to be sustainable and profitable?
20:52Yes, with the turbulence in the world today, fuel and feed availability is quite a worry.
21:02We have managed to secure any feed protein that we import. We have secured prices for this year. So hopefully,
21:13by that time, things will have settled down.
21:16But it's quite a concern for businesses, availability of fuel and feed going forward.
21:24Especially in rural areas, I suppose, with increasing oil costs, it must be even more pressure.
21:29Yes. And it's not just price. It's an even bigger worry if a farm were needing fuel for field work
21:40and it wasn't available.
21:41That would be, as far as food security, that would be a disaster.
21:46I hope things will stabilise. And that's one of the challenges you're dealing with.
21:50What other are your big sort of challenging opportunities at the moment, would you say?
21:56Within organic?
21:57Yeah, I have a thing in your farm and the sector as a whole, I suppose.
22:01Yeah, yeah. Well, we're keen, obviously, to continue as organic.
22:07And just, there are always challenges within farming. There's no doubt about that.
22:18But, no, we're quite comfortable with the way we farm.
22:23And it's quite good that the industry is now recognising organic and sustainability as two things that go together.
22:36And that's reassuring.
22:38You're listening to our Sustainable Scotland podcast.
22:40This episode is brought to you in partnership with the Royal Helen Show.
22:43If you'd like to discuss partnering with the Scotsman for an episode of Australia Scotland,
22:46please email podcast at scotsman.com.
22:49And now back to the Royal Helen Show.
22:51Just to both of you now, going back to the show, what would you say you're most looking forward to
22:56this year?
22:56Hannah, to start with you, what would be your big highlight?
23:02So, as I said at the start, I look after accessibility.
23:05So, this year on the Saturday, we're going to have sign language interpreters over quite a lot of our competitions
23:12and demonstrations.
23:14Which is something, we trialled it last year just in the main ring, but we're hoping to be able to
23:18have it just at other,
23:22so Food for Thought and the Countryside Arena at different areas throughout the event as well.
23:27So, I'm really keen to see how that goes this year.
23:31And as well, I'm just looking forward to the Sunday of the show this year.
23:36It's our family day.
23:37There's lots of family-friendly activities and lots for children to do.
23:42So, definitely, if you've not got your ticket already, definitely get it now,
23:47because it is a great family-friendly day out at the show.
23:50I'd second that. We go every year as a family.
23:52Oh, great.
23:53Yeah.
23:54My little boy loves the tractors. He's getting a bit bigger now, but he still loves the tractors.
23:58Brilliant.
23:58He's all the kids too.
24:00John, what are you most looking forward to, would you say?
24:03Well, this is only my second year as director, but it will be my first year as dairy director.
24:10So, you know, obviously keen that it's a success, and I'll be putting 100% into everything to try and
24:22achieve another successful show.
24:25Obviously, we want good facilities. Good facilities mean happy exhibitors.
24:31And obviously, part of the year is taken up with securing judges and stewards to make, without these people giving
24:42up their valuable time, the show would not happen.
24:46And at the end of the day, I'm looking forward to a great spectacle for all the visitors.
24:53Sounds fantastic. And Hannah, could you just remind us all of the dates of this year's show?
24:58Yeah.
24:59When to expect it.
25:02So this year's show starts on the 18th of June, right through until the 21st of June.
25:08So it's on Thursday to Sunday.
25:10Thank you, Hannah.
25:11That's great. Thanks.
25:11I think we covered a lot there in terms of sustainability and what to expect this year.
25:14Is there anything I would like to add that we haven't touched on in our chat today?
25:21I just think that it's genuinely a really great day out, whether you come with your family, come with your
25:26friends.
25:27I think if you've not been before and you're thinking about it, go and grab tickets and come along.
25:33It genuinely is one of the best events that we do here at the centre.
25:38So, yeah, come along. Thanks, Hannah. And John, Ez, you'd like to add?
25:44Yes. From the dairy side, a few changes this year and the Friday will be the main day for the
25:54dairy enthusiasts.
25:55That's when all the judging will take place. So it will be a full day on the Friday.
26:01And obviously over the weekend, there's always the Grand Parade is a big crowd cooler.
26:08Everyone enjoys seeing that spectacle. So we'll have that.
26:13And on the Sunday this time, there's a slight change in that we're going to have some demonstrations and a
26:24milking demonstration for the visitors, which will be quite near, just adjacent to the Highland Hall.
26:32And there'll be a bit of a commentary and that should be pretty good. So that's and I think there's
26:40a few celebrities maybe at the show this time.
26:46But as I say, watch this space. So all in all, it's we're all pretty excited about the prospects of
26:55another successful show.
26:57It all sounds very exciting. We'll look forward to it. Thank you both.
27:01Thank you, Hannah and John, for a great conversation on sustainability and the Royal Helen Show.
27:05And thanks you for listening to this episode of Steenable Scotland, produced by The Scotsman.
27:08This episode was delivered in partnership with the Royal Helen Show.
27:11Please listen out for and enjoy more episodes of Steenable Scotland on our main podcast platforms.
27:16This episode was presented by me, Rosemary Gallagher, and produced by Andrew Mulligan.
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