- 7 hours ago
Long before Soundgarden helped shape the Seattle grunge movement, Kim Thayil says the band sensed they were creating something that 'didn't really sound like anything else.' In a revealing conversation with Joann Butler on Joann Butler In Studio With... , the guitar great discusses his new memoir, A Screaming Life: Into the Superunknown with Soundgarden and Beyond , and reminisces on early days jamming with Chris Cornell and Hiro Yamamoto in Seattle, the moment they realized their chemistry was undeniable, and why nobody in the scene actually liked the word 'grunge.' Thayil also discusses Cornell's evolution from drummer to frontman, the emotional responsibility of finishing unreleased Soundgarden recordings, and his experience with synesthesia, describing how he associates music with colors and shapes. He shares how his perspective on the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame changed over time and recalls the surprising moment Soundgarden collectively decided to turn down Gene Simmons, despite being longtime Kiss fans. Thoughtful, funny, and deeply reflective, Thayil offers a rare inside look at one of rock's most influential bands -- and the stories behind the music that shaped a generation. This is a LifeMinute with Kim Thayil.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00It would have been tougher to write about it in the 90s,
00:02although it might have been more popular.
00:04The last time we spoke, you were like,
00:06grunge wasn't even a thing.
00:07At the time, nobody liked the term grunge.
00:10How could you say no to Gene Simmons?
00:12I wouldn't have said no to Gene Simmons.
00:14If he made a request of me, that'd be different.
00:16But the request was of the band.
00:18When did you realize, oh my gosh, like, this is good?
00:21I mean, instantly.
00:22That first day, we wrote three songs.
00:24We were just looking at each other and smiling and dumb
00:27talented, like, how did that happen?
00:29After Chris passed, you were having issues getting the rights.
00:32You got the rights.
00:33So tell us about the new music.
00:34This material has been in existence for over 10 years, in some cases.
00:40It's important for the legacy of Soundgarden.
00:42It's important for the legacy of Chris Quinrell.
00:45Hi, I'm Kim Thile of Soundgarden, and you're in studio with Joanne Butler.
00:52Kim Thile.
00:53I haven't seen a copy yet.
00:54Let me see that.
00:56Oh, cool.
00:56I have to tell you, I'm really enjoying this.
00:59It's really good.
01:01Congratulations.
01:02Really well done.
01:03I believe it reads quickly like a Kurt Vonnegut book.
01:06I thank Adam Teppetlin for that.
01:08He has an experienced sense of pacing, you know.
01:11Yes.
01:12So what made you do it?
01:13Why now?
01:14It was actually proposed to me by Adam Teppetlin, you know, like, probably back in 2019.
01:20And we had some mutual friends, and he came to me with the idea of doing a book.
01:26I kind of hesitated a little bit.
01:27You know, there were a number of other things going on.
01:29I was somewhat busy.
01:31Then the pandemic hit, which both afforded us some more time, but also impeded our ability to get together.
01:40For one, he's based out of Victoria, you know, in British Columbia.
01:45And I don't recall how far into the pandemic this occurred, but they eventually shut down the border.
01:53So my interest was in getting together with him over a few beers at like a pub or a tavern,
02:00you know, have dinner and stuff.
02:02He had previously written, one of his first books was on extreme beers, you know, odd beers.
02:07And he kind of paired it thematically with heavy metal culture.
02:11And so I thought, well, let's get together and drink a few beers.
02:14And when the pandemic shut everything down, we thought, well, we can do it by phone.
02:19And I thought, well, then it'd just be a decade's worth of phoners.
02:24And I thought that would be satisfying.
02:26And we thought we could do it by Zoom.
02:28And I had no idea what that was until pandemic proceeded.
02:33And I became obligated to extended family get togethers via Zoom and then eventually business meetings with attorneys and accountants.
02:46So I got a little bit more accustomed to it.
02:49See, here I am.
02:50It worked.
02:51Let's talk about it.
02:53Let's talk about you.
02:54Why did you feel compelled to tell your story?
02:57Partly Adam talked me into it.
02:59You know, I talked to a few other friends and they thought, oh, yeah, you know, it's there were certainly
03:02things to cover.
03:03We're far enough away from the initial impact of Seattle and the Seattle milieu and there'd been enough transition.
03:13Bands had broken up and come and gone and people got married, had kids, et cetera.
03:18It seemed like, well, we could talk about it now.
03:21We probably have a different perspective and be able to reflect on the scene, our friends, our colleagues, where we
03:30were, where we are now.
03:32It would have been tougher to write about it in the 90s, although it might have been more popular.
03:37But we were still either ascending or moving sideways or whatever.
03:41But I think I think things had calmed down enough, especially during the pandemic.
03:45I thought, well, you know, there's there's certainly a volume of anecdotes and references and reflections that we can now
03:55address.
03:56Yeah.
03:56But one of the things you said, I found it interesting because the last time we spoke, you were like
04:01grunge wasn't even a thing.
04:02I don't even know.
04:03But now here you say, you know, before grunge.
04:07So that that's one of the things that you look at.
04:09At the time, nobody liked the term grunge.
04:12I think everyone just kind of saw themselves as we kind of came out of the sort of the punk
04:18rock, art rock sort of scene underground, indie underground.
04:22But it was definitely post post punk.
04:26So I just don't think we had a clear reference or label.
04:30And when grunge is is is hooky.
04:33It's one syllable.
04:34It's kind of got the you know, it's alliterative with punk to some degree.
04:38And so, you know, you appreciate it now, it allowed for retail to file things and also for magazine.
04:46It probably helped editors like understand, you know, what what the story is and how it you know, how it
04:52fits with things.
04:53It's just an easy way to package it and sell it.
04:55It's a little ribbon, but none of us liked it.
04:58Here's why we now use the reference, because no one expected, of course, Nirvana to go through the roof, followed
05:05by Pearl Jam.
05:06And then subsequently, you know, Alice in Chains and us smashing pumpkins, even the presidents of the United States.
05:13There's so many things happening that we were dedicated to the investment in time and in our career, because as
05:21more demands fell upon us, you know, traveling, touring, work, interviews, TV, radio.
05:28So what was just that weird little beer fueled hobby to aunts and uncles, bosses and co-workers now became
05:40that thing that those guys are doing.
05:43That's their career.
05:43We saw them on TV.
05:44We heard them on the radio.
05:45So other questions come up in conversations.
05:51Usually my family or friend's family or girlfriend's dad wouldn't really bother with your rock and roll hobby that you
06:00that you have.
06:02Now people are curious.
06:03I've seen you before.
06:05I think, you know, do you play in a band?
06:08Yes.
06:08What is the name of your band?
06:09And of course, everyone knew Nirvana and Pearl Jam there.
06:14They might have at the time in a certain time, early in the 90s, people were less familiar with, you
06:19know, the bands that hadn't become as huge or ubiquitous household names like Nirvana and Pearl Jam were.
06:26So we would just say, you know, grunge.
06:29Have you heard of Nirvana?
06:30Have you heard of Pearl Jam?
06:31So grunge was a term that was adopted more by the mainstream that allowed us to connect with older people
06:40and maybe people who are less involved with the music business to let them know what you do and where
06:46you do it and with who.
06:48Yep.
06:48What about your early starts?
06:51So Hero kind of got you in, but you were not so sure about it.
06:55You were like, meh, who is this guy, Chris with the short hair, like, and then you were like, wow.
06:59I've known, I've met Chris and I played in a couple shows in a band with Chris.
07:06It was a band that Chris actually had started with one of my other roommates and with Hero.
07:13Heroes actually went on the record on some video telling that origin story and it's all inside out and sideways.
07:19I watched it and I thought, there's demonstrable evidence that what you're saying did not occur or could not have
07:25occurred.
07:26One of them is a photo of Hero and Chris and my two roommates, Matt and Dean, together in the
07:32band.
07:32One of my roommates was the founder of this band called The Shamps.
07:36He was a guitarist, a very good guitarist.
07:39I mean, I learned stuff from him in high school.
07:41He was like the hotshot.
07:43And my other roommate was a drummer.
07:45They auditioned Chris to sing, although Hero reports in a few interviews that they auditioned Chris to drum.
07:52No, we had, they had a drummer.
07:54And by the way, this was Hero's band.
07:56It wasn't my band.
07:56It was Hero, this drummer, this guitarist.
08:00And then they auditioned Chris to sing.
08:01And then they did a bunch of press photos.
08:04And then Hero quit.
08:06And they had a bunch of gigs lined up.
08:08And my roommate said, can you play bass?
08:12We can borrow a bass.
08:14Can you learn these parts?
08:15Because we have these gigs coming up.
08:16And I did.
08:17I played about five gigs of them.
08:19Two of them with Chris singing.
08:20A couple, he, a couple, he was underage.
08:23And a couple of them were at bars.
08:24I think he needed to get a permit or whatever.
08:27I think we had a keyboardist in a band at some point.
08:30And then I think Chris, Hero's roommate, who was a drummer in Hero's previous band, moved out of that house.
08:39And so Hero had space available.
08:41And Chris was a drummer looking for a place to live and put his drums.
08:46But now he wasn't drumming in this band.
08:48It was his opportunity to try singing in this band, The Shemps.
08:52But he was looking for a place where he could bang on his drums and not disturb the neighbors.
08:56And Hero had that place.
08:58And a drummer had just vacated.
08:59So that's how that happened.
09:01So they were jamming together as a rhythm section.
09:03They were looking for lead instruments to perform with them.
09:06They jammed with mostly guitars, but I think a few keyboardists.
09:09And yes, Hero tried to get me into jam.
09:13I was going to college.
09:14I was at the University of Washington.
09:16I had a couple more quarters to finish up.
09:19I just started this amazing relationship.
09:22That would end up lasting for 10 years.
09:24And I was working at the United Indians of All Tribes Foundation at the Daybreak Star Cultural Arts Building in
09:33Discovery Park in Magnolia.
09:35All these things took up a lot of time.
09:37Plus, I was DJing like once a week or had been DJing at the university's radio station, KCMU, which became
09:46KEXP.
09:47So that's why I declined.
09:49I just didn't have available time.
09:51And weekends were made for my – were set aside for my new girlfriend, going to movies, going to dinner.
09:56I had work during the May part of the week and classes.
10:03So we agreed that I'd come by on Mondays or Tuesdays.
10:08So he pushed me to come jam with them on Monday.
10:11It went great.
10:12He said, can you come back the next day?
10:14I'm not working the next day.
10:15Yes, I'll come back.
10:17We enjoyed it.
10:18It was amazing.
10:21And subsequent Mondays and Tuesdays, we did as well.
10:25So that became the thing.
10:26Thank God it became the thing.
10:28But what was it like?
10:30When did you realize, oh, my gosh, this is good.
10:33It's working.
10:34We sound good.
10:35I mean, instantly.
10:37And I just thought – seriously, I thought I was just going to humor hero, jam for a bit, have
10:44some beer.
10:45I didn't know Chris was a drummer.
10:47I was only aware of him singing in this band that did Doors and Stones covers.
10:52But my focus at that time wasn't being in a band.
10:55I mean, I was totally filled up, full-time job, full-time school, relationship, DJing on the side.
11:03So that's what was amazing about it is that I was not prepared and barely interested.
11:10I just thought it would be something social to do, just do some music and drink some beer.
11:15That first day, we wrote three songs.
11:18I mean, we were all so excited about them.
11:20I mean, we were just looking at each other and smiling and dumbfounded, like, how did that happen?
11:26We all immediately thought this is cooler than any band we've ever been in before.
11:31And Chris felt that way.
11:33Hero felt that way.
11:34I felt that way.
11:35It was original music we were coming up with.
11:38It didn't really sound like anything else.
11:40We can kind of reference things like Bauhaus or Killing Joke or maybe Susie and the Banshees or something.
11:48But a little bit heavier and a little bit – it was interesting.
11:53And it was more than interesting.
11:55I mean, we were all kind of slap-jawed, smiling, like, did that just happen?
12:01Let's – Hero would say, hey, I got this other riff.
12:03Do you guys want to jam on that?
12:04Sure.
12:05And bam, bam, bam, all of a sudden we have another song.
12:08We decided to just document them.
12:10We just had a cheap little four-track, reel-to-reel recorder that Chris and Hero knew how to operate.
12:15And let's record that so we don't forget it.
12:17The next day, we come back and listen to it.
12:20And we're still enthused by it.
12:22It's like, oh, my God, we did that?
12:24We jam some more, we write two more songs.
12:27So just like that, in two sessions, maybe they were three or four-hour sessions each,
12:33we've written five songs, and we've impressed each other and ourselves.
12:39And that was that.
12:41It just became so exciting.
12:42And then I couldn't come back and jam for a while for a few weeks because I had other things
12:47to do.
12:48And Hero kept calling, saying, you liked what we did, didn't you?
12:52Yes, I loved what we did.
12:54Well, why don't you come back and jam?
12:56I'm just so busy right now.
12:58You know, well, eventually, he goes, when?
13:00He was just really pushy.
13:02Like he was my lead in some factory or something, you know.
13:05I don't know, man.
13:08And I think a week or two later, or the subsequent week, maybe two weeks later, he was getting kind
13:14of antsy and saying, look, dude, do you want to do this or not?
13:20I go, yeah.
13:21I just don't know where to find the time.
13:23He goes, just come by tomorrow.
13:25Let's just try it again, okay?
13:26All right, all right.
13:28He talked me into it.
13:29I had to move a bunch of stuff aside, go back there, jam, write another song.
13:36So next thing you know, I'm sitting in philosophy of art class, just doodling in my notebook and writing lists
13:44of art songs.
13:45Oh, my gosh.
13:47Possible titles for the songs we worked on.
13:49And then has Matt come in yet?
13:52No.
13:53Okay.
13:53Matt hasn't come in for another three years, I think.
13:56Remember, we had a drummer.
13:58His name was Chris.
13:59Right.
13:59So when did you realize he was a better singer than a drummer?
14:03Like, how did that come?
14:04How did that happen?
14:05That took a while.
14:07Chris was a perfectly adequate singer.
14:10I mean, he had no problem.
14:12I've said to some few interviews, we just thought that Chris's singing style was more, you know, a bit conventional
14:18because our experience was with Chris singing Doors and Stone songs.
14:24I mean, you bar rock.
14:25I mean, every city has that area or had, at least in the 70s and 80s and 90s, they all
14:32had that area of town where the tourists go, you know, and there's bars.
14:37And it's kind of blues based and boogie bass and classic rock bass, mostly 60s and 70s stuff.
14:45Every city has that district or two.
14:48And Seattle was not, you know, it was not unlike the rest of the country or Canada or Europe in
14:55that regard.
14:56So if Chris is singing something that, if his singing style is somewhat commonplace, maybe even pedestrian from our perspective,
15:07playing in this cover band, then that is not going to be the focus or stand out, you know, quality
15:16about his performance.
15:17What we liked was the way he played drums with Hero and the way they wrote.
15:24Chris would have ideas for arrangements.
15:26And then he'd go down to his room and say, you know what, I've got some lyrics that might fit
15:31that.
15:32And he would.
15:33He'd keep a little notebook full of lyrics and he'd try the lyrics to see if they fit with the
15:37meter and tempo of the song.
15:40And he'd kind of play drums and sing at the same time, which is a difficult thing to do.
15:45Eventually, at some point, we, you know, we had to decide, well, he'll sing better if he doesn't have his
15:51four limbs committed to a drum kit.
15:55But we really like Chris as our drummer.
15:59We like the way he plays.
16:00We like the way he writes, the dynamic.
16:03He has an idea of the songs instrumentally.
16:05So what do we do here?
16:07Well, we can keep writing.
16:09He can keep writing lyrics and we'll find someone else to sing.
16:12Someone who maybe, stylistically, someone who had a broader palate than simply a beer bar, you know, on the weekend.
16:21That's what we were thinking.
16:23But really, when Chris was freed up from the drums, he pretty much left a few anchors or weights aside
16:31that liberated him.
16:33Not just in terms of his stage presence, but in terms of his ability to sing, what he could sing.
16:41He wasn't weighed down by his duties as a drummer.
16:45And so what we saw then was that his vocal range and abilities were greater than what he was doing
16:52in a limited capacity.
16:54I tried to do both.
16:56Amazing.
16:57And then as the songs grew, his style changed and grew to accommodate the themes of the songs and the
17:04musical style.
17:06So.
17:07You know what I said?
17:09Synesthesia.
17:10That was neat.
17:11I found that interesting.
17:13We guys are creating.
17:14You said, like, I might object to one part that someone was proposing.
17:19I might object because purple clashed with other parts.
17:24This song is a yellow triangle and you're presenting me with a purple circle.
17:28Yeah.
17:29It's terrible.
17:30That was a humorous reference.
17:31I did not know what synesthesia.
17:33I do have synesthesia, but I didn't know that in the 80s.
17:37I don't think I learned what the term was until late 90s or early 2000s.
17:42I had described this aspect of the way I would perceive things, you know, in terms of colors and in
17:50some cases shapes with words and numbers and with numerals, letters.
17:57And I wasn't aware that there was a term for that or a word for that.
18:02And usually when I shared that with friends or family members, they just looked at me like, yeah, you're even
18:07weirder than we thought.
18:08And then eventually I saw some, like, documentary on, like, the Discovery Channel back when Discovery actually did things about
18:16science and nature.
18:18Yeah, I know.
18:19Me too.
18:19You're worried about it now.
18:20Before everything to think about aliens and crop circles.
18:23So I saw this program.
18:25I think it was that.
18:26It might have been on PBS.
18:27And, you know, it's the same thing.
18:29I just saw them.
18:30They were interviewing people who were describing some of these phenomena that they experience.
18:35And my mouth just, again, the same thing.
18:38My jaw just dropped.
18:39And I was like, this guy is specifically addressing a phenomenon that I've been telling people since grade school.
18:47And I was just like, holy, this is weird.
18:49Is someone, like, looking at my journals?
18:52Or what?
18:53It was the strangest thing.
18:55Because I'd never met anyone who had shared that kind of experience or perception.
19:05And now I hear it being described on some primetime TV show.
19:10And it was just so bizarre.
19:12It was like someone was in my head, like, describing a particular image or experience or even a dream that
19:22you had.
19:22And here they are describing it.
19:25So I waited until the show replayed again.
19:28And I watched the whole thing.
19:29And I kind of took notes.
19:31Like, what is it?
19:32Synesthesia.
19:33And then a few years later, my sister, who is seven years younger than me, so it's not the kind
19:38of conversation we would have had growing up.
19:40And she starts describing this phenomenon that she experiences.
19:44And I tell her, yes.
19:47And then you do this.
19:48And then does this happen?
19:49And then you see this.
19:50And she thought, oh, my big brother's making fun of me.
19:53Where are you getting that from?
19:54I go, because I do that.
19:55She goes, you're just saying that to copy me.
19:57I go, no.
19:58And then I go, perhaps because we're both our parents' children.
20:03And she sent me a book.
20:05She's worked in libraries much of her life.
20:08And she had found a book about it.
20:10She sent it to me.
20:11And I go, there was like this one chapter described, a few chapters described the phenomenon of something I did.
20:19So that was big.
20:21There now was a name for this thing that I'd experienced.
20:26How did it help you?
20:28How does it come to you?
20:29How does the music come to you and the sounds?
20:31It's not as profound as some people experience.
20:35Like what I learned, Natasha Snyder, who played.
20:39Yes, Alan's.
20:40Oh, I love Alan.
20:41Alan's a good friend, actually.
20:43Yeah, Alan Johannes and Natasha Snyder.
20:45He stayed here last year, actually.
20:47I should tell him that we spoke.
20:49Yeah, I got a text from yesterday.
20:52Natasha was telling me that when she heard music, she would actually see the notes as colors like in front
20:59of her.
21:00That's a more profound synesthetic phenomenon that she experienced.
21:05I don't recall doing that or having that kind of experience at all.
21:10You know, maybe when I was a kid.
21:12Mine is more with like letters and numbers and sounds, words.
21:17Oh, okay.
21:18And that really helped me growing up.
21:22I think it was beneficial.
21:25I was pretty good at math growing up, arithmetic at least.
21:28And I think part of that reason is being able to like each number had an assigned color.
21:33You can move around.
21:33It's easier to remember where things were and stuff.
21:36And similarly with words and letters and names that you have an idea of certain colors that work well together
21:43and pair together.
21:44So song titles, lyrics, things like that.
21:47There are references to shapes and colors that I've always gotten from music.
21:53Now, I don't know if that's synesthesia.
21:56I haven't seen that phenomenon described in that book.
21:59That may be just a way that people create references either through analogy or metaphor for the music that they
22:07have.
22:08Because many musicians and producers will communicate aspects of the audio in terms of visual references.
22:19And that isn't necessarily synesthesia.
22:21It's just trying to create a visual analog that people can understand.
22:25Like you refer to a song being angular or round or thick or sharp or bright or whatever.
22:34Last time we spoke, after Chris passed, it was right during COVID.
22:38You were having legal issues with his ex and everything, getting the rights.
22:42You got the rights.
22:43So tell us about the new music.
22:45You were saying it might be coming.
22:47That was the last thing you told me.
22:48It might be coming.
22:49And now we know it's coming.
22:52It's due me, I would say new recordings or newly published.
22:57This material has been in existence for over 10 years in some cases, you know, 14, 15 years.
23:04It was in various stages of writing, sharing, learning, recording.
23:15So what we need to do is finish that process.
23:21And most of the process, most of the writing had been complete.
23:25So it's mostly about recording.
23:28There were things that had been demoed by me, by Matt, by Chris, by Ben.
23:34But again, demo.
23:36They're very rough.
23:37They're sketches.
23:37Just you start with a little pencil sketch and you fill it in with whatever, chalks or oils or pastels.
23:45And that's what we have to do, is finish the sketches.
23:49And we're in that process.
23:51It is atypical in the way we approach it.
23:54There isn't a record label budgeting, time and money with a particular schedule.
24:00With everybody else's obligations, professionally or with family or whatever,
24:05we have to find the time and coordinate amongst ourselves to address the work.
24:13And it's being addressed.
24:15And it's coming.
24:16It's coming.
24:17I hope it's coming.
24:19It's very, very important to all of us.
24:23It's important for the legacy of Soundgarden.
24:25It's important for the legacy of Chris Quinrell.
24:27It is doing right by our collective work.
24:30It is doing right by our partner and friend.
24:34And what was he really like?
24:36I don't know if we have enough time.
24:38What is anyone really like?
24:40I think he's fairly straightforward and sincere.
24:44If you watch interviews with him, there's no reason for him to be anything other than forthcoming
24:51and sincere about his feelings and attitudes about his work or whatever people talk about relationships.
25:00Rock Hall, was that an honor?
25:02Yeah, I think so.
25:03No, I think it was an honor.
25:05You know, if you had asked me 20 years ago, I would have gone, ah, whatever.
25:08But, you know, I'm older.
25:10I've learned how important it is to friends, family, and fans.
25:13And would they get excited about that recognition, about something they believe in, something that they have supported for years,
25:21something they've enjoyed, something that meant something to them?
25:25And that is when my understanding changed.
25:27And that is when my understanding changed and grew over the years.
25:55And I regarded, you know, I regarded, you know, his insights and his experiences.
26:03And Matt said something similar when Pearl Jam went in.
26:07And so all of that changed my understanding and regard for the Hall of Fame.
26:12Is there anything in the book that you hesitated to include?
26:15You know, when you're a kid and there's things that you share with family and friends, you want to make
26:22sure that you're not breaching the confidence with your friends.
26:27You're nothing, there's, you know, there's no kiss and tell.
26:31I mean, I think there's enough discretion, you know, on my part that when I talk about friends or partners
26:39or family members who keep the salacious stuff, you know, between ourselves and any witnesses.
26:46I don't think I describe any juvenile crimes.
26:52All right.
26:52So now what's next for you?
26:55Are you going to be playing?
26:56I'm going to be doing some more interviews and promoting this book and then popping into the studio to make
27:03my guitar sound a little bit better and get these songs as exciting for us as they can be.
27:08Will you think you'll be getting together and playing again or touring or anything like that?
27:12We like playing and we like playing with the, you know, together.
27:16Matt and Ben and I like playing together.
27:17And we know that if we want to enjoy the songs that we've played for decades, that that satisfaction of
27:27performing this material can only really happen with the three of us.
27:32It could only happen with the four of us.
27:35But since there's three of us remaining, then we know that that is that window of opportunity for us to
27:43share with each other material that we'd performed on and wrote on together.
27:51Do you have a favorite song, a couple favorites?
27:53Yeah, that's always changing.
27:55You know, I might say something now and it'll be something later in the evening.
28:00I hear you.
28:01Oh, I love the Kiss story, too.
28:03Oh, my God.
28:03It was so funny.
28:04Do you ever talk to Gene Simmons now?
28:06Like, how could you say no to Gene Simmons?
28:09I wouldn't have said no to Gene Simmons other than if it was an individual.
28:14If he made a request of me, that'd be different.
28:16But the request was of the band and there was four guys in the band that didn't see eye to
28:22eye.
28:23We have a lot of shared references, you know, with the bands that inspired us.
28:29But there are places where it varies, you know.
28:32That's what made it so good, I guess.
28:34I was a pretty big Kiss fan as a teenager.
28:36I know.
28:36That was pure pressure.
28:37I can't believe it.
28:38So was Matt.
28:39Why did you say no?
28:41Did you ever talk about it later?
28:42Well, it's a collective decision because this is Matt and I.
28:47I mean, there's other guys in the band that weren't interested, you know.
28:50Aw.
28:51Kim, thank you so much.
28:53Thank you, Joanne.
28:55For more of this interview, check out Life Minute on all streaming podcast platforms.
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