- 19 hours ago
After years of waiting, Eve Plumb is sharing her story in her own words with a new memoir, Happiness Included: Jan Brady and Beyond . In a candid conversation with LifeMinute editor-in-chief Joann Butler, Plumb reflects on her decades-long career, from child star to artist, and life beyond The Brady Bunch . She also sets the record straight on long-standing misconceptions about her relationship with the iconic series. In reality, she maintains positive relationships with her castmates and views the show as enduring 'comfort food' for generations of fans. Beyond her TV legacy, Plumb opens up about her creative passions, her 30-plus-year marriage to husband, Ken Pace, and her experience surviving breast cancer--now using her story to support other women facing similar challenges. This is a LifeMinute with Eve Plumb.
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00:00I kind of want to know why that bothered you, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
00:04It feels like somebody was making, you know, like making fun.
00:07You had a crush on Peter. Did he know?
00:09I don't think so.
00:10Does he know now?
00:11Probably.
00:11I'm Eve Plum, and you're watching Life Minute TV.
00:15All right, Eve Plum in the house.
00:18Welcome to Life Minute.
00:20Thank you. Thank you for having me.
00:21Oh, it's so good to have you.
00:23A new book, Happiness Included, which I just finished.
00:26It's wonderful.
00:28Oh, thank you.
00:28I enjoyed it so much.
00:29What made you decide to do it now?
00:31Well, for so long, so many people have asked me to tell my stories for their books,
00:36and I never did it because they're my stories, and, you know, I figure, well, when I'm ready,
00:41I will tell my stories myself, and so I'm ready.
00:44I felt it was like a love story to all the people you love.
00:48Yes.
00:48And yourself, too.
00:50It wasn't just about Brady Bunch.
00:52It was your whole life from your childhood to present time, which I loved.
00:57Did you find it cathartic in a way or difficult?
01:01Yeah, a little bit.
01:02It was, it takes forever.
01:04Because I'm so used to television.
01:05I would say to the publisher, why is this going to take two years?
01:09Because I'm used to, you know, you get the script on a Wednesday, you're working on Friday.
01:12So it was very, very slow, but also I was working with a writer, so she certainly needed time
01:19to craft the things that we had talked about.
01:21But it was great because I've just always wanted to talk about the pre-Brady stuff that
01:26I really loved doing.
01:27You came into the Brady Bunch kind of, besides, you know, mom and dad, you were probably the
01:33most experienced actor of the bunch.
01:35I guess so.
01:36I guess so.
01:37I had been working for four years steadily.
01:39It was, I don't know, it was more rare for me not to get a job than to get a
01:44job.
01:45I just kept booking things all the time as a kid.
01:48I could read, I could study lines, I could cry on cue.
01:51So I got constantly cast as a little girl in peril.
01:54I fell down a well, my dog ran away, died of leukemia, so many problems.
01:59So it was nice to come to this happy show, kind of?
02:02I guess so.
02:03It was, because I had done two other pilots as well.
02:06So it's always just, this is what's happening now.
02:09But yeah, coming to a happy show, it was the 1960s and I had some awareness of the world
02:15at large and I somehow thought that this seemed like it wasn't something that was going to
02:19be important to the world in some way of solving some problems.
02:24And my mother was very kind and said, you know, well, people need to be entertained, you know,
02:29and it's okay to entertain people.
02:31So I did the show.
02:33It sounds like you had good parents.
02:35Very good parents, yes.
02:36They were smart and taught you the work ethic.
02:38Yes.
02:39This was my mom's bracelet.
02:41Really?
02:41Yeah, it was my mom's bracelet, yeah.
02:43I was looking at that.
02:43Oh, it's beautiful.
02:44Thanks, yeah.
02:45Is it one piece?
02:46It's like, no, it's like this thing and it's probably from the 1930s.
02:50Wow.
02:50I just never wear it, so it's in really good condition, yeah.
02:53Oh, it's beautiful.
02:54Yeah, thanks.
02:54Did your mom get along with Florence?
02:56Of course, everybody got along with Florence.
02:59Yes.
02:59Oh, she was great.
03:00She's such a consummate professional, so good to her fans, just, you know, came from the
03:05theater, came from, you know, really pulling herself up out of a difficult home life of poverty.
03:11And so she was the one to watch for how you do this.
03:15So you had two good families.
03:17Absolutely, yeah.
03:18And your dad in the music business, RCA, I found that interesting as well.
03:23Yeah, he was in the music business his whole life.
03:26And he had played saxophone and clarinet in the big bands.
03:29And then he got Bell's palsy and lost his lip, was unable to play.
03:33So he had to pivot, as we started saying in 2020.
03:37And he did.
03:38He went right into being, you know, a record producer and signing artists and did an amazing
03:44job.
03:45I grew up thinking, well, doesn't everybody's dad have gold records in his office?
03:50Did he turn you on to any music?
03:52No.
03:52We actually, because he was also an arranger, he could, he could, he's one of those people
03:57who could write down the arrangements for an orchestra and hear all the parts in his
04:01head and write it down.
04:03He always had a thing where he didn't really want to listen to a lot of music because if
04:07he was going to write a song, he didn't want to end up subliminally copying someone.
04:12So he wasn't like, you know, listen to this music.
04:15We had music.
04:15I mean, they, I played music.
04:17I played vinyl in my room.
04:19But yeah.
04:20That's wonderful, Jan.
04:21What's his name?
04:22His name is George.
04:25George what?
04:26George, uh, George Glass.
04:29George Glass.
04:31I'll go wash up for dinner.
04:32I'm starved.
04:33You said in the book that it's a misnomer that you didn't really like to be associated
04:38with Brady Lines.
04:39Why is, why do people think that?
04:41I don't know.
04:42And the only Brady thing I didn't do was the variety show.
04:45And so somehow it's so weird.
04:48I think people want to believe bad things more than they want to believe good things.
04:51There are several points that I could tell it till I'm blue in the face and people will
04:55still ask me.
04:55And it's made up by somebody else who has broadcast it.
04:59I don't know.
05:00Well, all I hear all day long at school is how great Marsha is at this or how wonderful
05:05Marsha did that.
05:06Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
05:08I kind of want to know why that bothered you, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
05:12It feels like somebody was making, you know, like making, making fun.
05:16Like it was a taunt.
05:17Yeah.
05:18Doug was making fun of my acting, making fun of me as a little girl.
05:21I'm sure everybody's in a schoolyard has had somebody make up some nasty rhyme about
05:26their name and pointed at you, chanted at you.
05:29That's what it feels like.
05:30I guess when you're so little.
05:32No, it's happened as an adult.
05:33It wasn't until it was on Saturday Night Live that it became a thing.
05:37Because all I ever hear about is Marsha.
05:40Marsha, Marsha, Marsha.
05:42And it bothered you.
05:44And were you always friends with everybody, like right from the get-go?
05:48Yeah, you know, but you're working together.
05:50So you don't want to, you know, always hang out with the people you're working with.
05:53But we did.
05:54And yeah, we all, we all got along.
05:56We still, we still, for the most part, get along.
05:58For the most part.
05:59Well, you know, there's always going to be some sort of a, not a, not a contentiousness,
06:03but if you're negotiating and trying to do a new show, sometimes there's differing opinions.
06:08Do you have a favorite episode?
06:09I always liked the ones where we traveled, where we went to Hawaii or the Grand Canyon.
06:14You know, that was always fun.
06:15And you've done so much after Rady Bunch as well.
06:17Yeah.
06:18Anything you regretted doing?
06:20No, no, because as I look back, none of it is too embarrassing.
06:24So, no, I don't.
06:25It's all great stuff.
06:26I don't regret it.
06:26And you kept, I was like, oh, yeah, I saw that.
06:28Oh, I saw her in that.
06:29Right, yeah.
06:30You know, things that I forgot.
06:32Right, yeah.
06:32There was a lot.
06:33Oh, and you said you had a crush on Peter.
06:35I thought that was such a...
06:36Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
06:37I mean, it was proximity, you know, as a little girl and he's a little boy and we're hanging out.
06:42And so I didn't have any other pool of applicants.
06:46Right.
06:46Did he know?
06:47I don't think so.
06:48Does he know now?
06:49Probably.
06:49Probably.
06:50People like to talk about it.
06:51I know you guys are probably still the best friends now.
06:53Yeah, we are.
06:54We are good friends with Chris and Kara, yeah.
06:57What do you think it is about that show that just made it so iconic?
07:00It's just never been off the air, you know, and people.
07:03So it's sort of comfort food.
07:05I think of it as kind of like a Friends, you know?
07:08Sure.
07:08And you were kind of like Courtney Cox coming on to that, I think, because she was like established.
07:13Oh, I see.
07:14You know, in that way.
07:15And then I loved what you said about, I always thought Alice was gay, too.
07:19I didn't know that she was.
07:20Yeah.
07:21Why do people think that?
07:22When anybody, sometimes, you know, when a woman is single past the age of 30, you know,
07:27she's immediately branded one way or the other.
07:29So, and also she was a no-nonsense person.
07:31I don't know.
07:32People like to make things up about other people.
07:34Did you feel like you learned things when you're, you know, around them, around the elders?
07:38Well, sure.
07:39I mean, it was sort of by osmosis, you know, just being around them.
07:42Just, I think that's how a lot of kids learn.
07:45You learn by example, the example that people are setting, or by direct instruction.
07:50So, of course, yeah.
07:51And then, of course, they reinvented the house, HGT.
07:54Yes.
07:54It's just so neat.
07:55Yeah, that was so amazing.
07:56Tell us about that.
07:56What they did was such a great idea, but that they did it to such an amazing degree.
08:01It is to the inch.
08:02You know, you forget that you're not on the set, except for there's a fourth wall.
08:06It was just really amazing.
08:08It was a great experience.
08:09It just really went well, and it was a lot of fun.
08:11So, what did you do exactly to help?
08:13Well, it was sort of, you know, I mean, we certainly weren't going to be able to design it or
08:18actually do a lot of things.
08:19So, we did a little bit of demo.
08:21We brought some things from home.
08:24We would tell our stories, but it wasn't as if they were like, well, what do you think we should
08:28do with this room?
08:29They had their own designers, and it had to be them doing it.
08:31And that you're into design, too.
08:33That was kind of neat.
08:34Right, yes.
08:34Yeah.
08:35And they didn't know you survived breast cancer.
08:37Yes, yeah.
08:38And a lot of people didn't know.
08:39A lot of times when you tell somebody you've got an illness, they're going to tell you, A, what you
08:43should do about that illness, or B, their illness story.
08:48And I had things to do.
08:49You know, the last thing I wondered was like, oh, honey, are you okay?
08:53I don't, I don't, I just need to take care of this, you know.
08:56But now, I'm perfectly happy to talk about it.
08:58Of course, happy to talk about it.
09:00And that's just it, is that I ended up helping or advising other women, just like two or three women,
09:06other women with breast cancer in my life right at that time.
09:09So, anytime anybody talks about that, you know, I'm certainly interested in giving my story to them and telling them,
09:17you know, helping them through that.
09:18What would you tell them?
09:20Well, I'd say, okay, go here, try this, you know, go ahead and make sure that you're your own advocate.
09:24Make sure you have somebody to really help you because a lot of times, you know, dealing with insurance is
09:29hard.
09:29And, you know, I know women who have had to go through it by themselves, dealing with the insurance and
09:35the health problems by themselves.
09:36And it's, it's a slog.
09:38But fortunately, because of science, I'm still here today.
09:41And then you're a New Yorker.
09:43Yes.
09:4415 years.
09:44Yeah, yeah.
09:45And you brought Ken today, which I'm so happy to meet him.
09:47Yes, yes.
09:48He's so, so supportive.
09:50So, you know, such a guy.
09:52It looks like, like I'm doing a lot, but it's us.
09:55You know, he's, he's the one figuring it out.
09:58I love how you just, like, just decided, you know, hmm, I think we want to go to New York.
10:03And he was like, yep, okay, if you get work, and you did, and you just, like, picked up and
10:07went, I love that.
10:08Yeah, it's great.
10:10What's your advice for a good marriage?
10:12I think Ruth Bader Ginsburg said in a long marriage, sometimes you need to be a little deaf.
10:19You know, remember to just walk away before you flame out.
10:24And what do you guys like to do when you're not working and you just hang out?
10:27Well, we, that's the other thing about a long marriage is we both have our own interests.
10:31He has friends.
10:32I have friends.
10:33It's not a problem if he, he goes to the Hollywood Bowl Jazz Festival every year.
10:39And I, I'm not a jazz fan, and he knows that.
10:43And that's fine, but I'm not going to keep him from having a good time.
10:47He should absolutely go that.
10:48He should absolutely watch all the basketball and do all that.
10:51I've got other things that I can do.
10:53Why wouldn't you want somebody you love to have some enjoyment?
10:57The people that, that are like, oh, my wife wouldn't let me do that.
11:00My husband says I can't go.
11:01I'm like, hmm, that does not sound like a partnership.
11:03Right.
11:04What about New York?
11:05What do you guys like to do in the city?
11:06We are pretty much homebodies.
11:08Ken cooks.
11:09We watch TV.
11:11So people are like, what's your favorite restaurant?
11:12Well, there's one right around the corner from us.
11:14I've got two, but we're not big foodies, and it's really pricey to go out in New York.
11:20I'm sorry.
11:21And because I'm not a foodie, it's not like I enjoy spending that money on the food.
11:28I'm not the best audience for gourmet food.
11:31What are you doing in New York, not a foodie?
11:33I am enjoying my life in New York.
11:35What about L.A.?
11:37Did you like being in L.A.?
11:39It's like when you grow up in a town and you know it.
11:42You're sort of like been there, done that.
11:43That was sort of how it was.
11:45It wasn't that much with Laguna.
11:46That's where we moved from.
11:48It was that Laguna, we realized we were getting to be a certain age, and Laguna is a great town.
11:53It's very quiet.
11:55And we decided if we were going to do something big, that was the time to move.
11:59And that's what's great about New York, is that it's open late and busy and bustling
12:04and things to do, places to go, people to see.
12:06So that was, again, part of why we moved.
12:09I love that.
12:10And if you didn't do acting, what do you think you would have done when you were young?
12:14I was never encouraged to do anything else.
12:16I probably would have.
12:18And as you look back on your life, man, I would have gone to design school.
12:23I would have been some sort of a designer of furniture or tiles or homes or be some sort
12:28of designer wearing very interesting glasses.
12:32Maybe have a little bit of an attitude.
12:35Very short hair.
12:36Well, you do it except for the glasses.
12:39You know, like a buzz cut and weird glasses.
12:41Well, you could still do all those things.
12:42I mean, you are doing them.
12:43You're designing.
12:44You're an artist.
12:45You've been an artist for a very, very long time.
12:48Yeah.
12:48You know, Mom would always say when I would say I was bored, she'd say, draw me something.
12:51So I'd draw.
12:52And then when I got divorced, I was married one time, and I needed something to do.
12:57And I needed something to do that wasn't going to cost a lot of money.
12:59And so I started painting and drawing and started teaching myself things, started asking other
13:04artists for techniques until I was able to finally get something that I liked well enough
13:07to put up on the wall.
13:09And that's sort of been my way I do it ever since.
13:13And what mediums do you use?
13:14I went through all the mediums.
13:16And another thing about painting and drawing or learning anything is that you have to be
13:19willing to get past the hard part because you're always going to come up against it where this
13:23isn't working and I don't know how to do it.
13:24And I liked it well enough to get past the hard part, except for watercolors.
13:28I haven't buckled down on those, but I went to watercolors and acrylics.
13:34Casein is an interesting paint.
13:36Gouache, but settled on oil.
13:38It's very, very, I was going to say transformative, but it's so flexible.
13:43You can do it heavy or light or dark and you can layer it and, you know, change it.
13:49You'll never stop learning about painting and oil.
13:51Are you still doing it?
13:52Yes, yeah.
13:53And then plum goods as well.
13:55Plum goods was something I'd always rattled around in my head for a long time and I'm
14:00not quite sure how we decided, okay, let's do it.
14:03And I thought I knew what I wanted to do, but then we went ahead and met with a branding
14:07company, this wonderful couple.
14:10And that was really, really great.
14:13It really does help you focus and keep focus because what they said was, okay, finish this
14:19sentence.
14:20Plum goods exist too.
14:22And I said, put a smile on your face.
14:24So that became plum goods, happiness included.
14:27That's where then we did that for the coffee, the happiness included coffee, which is all
14:32each of the little flavors that have a little dog icon on them and they're based on little
14:36terriers.
14:37It's also cute.
14:38So yeah, I had thought we were going to have to get wholesale products and warehouse them,
14:42but then we discovered that you can put your designs on products yourself.
14:47You don't have to warehouse.
14:48It's printed when you order it.
14:51So that's been so great to be able to design something in the morning and order it that
14:55afternoon.
14:55I love it.
14:57Really, really great.
14:57Tell us about the coffee story with Ken.
15:00Well, yeah, Ken and I, Ken and I both have always loved coffee since we ever, since we
15:04met.
15:05But our original email was Coffee Mates.
15:08So that was sort of a, again, that was Ken's genius idea.
15:11We should do a coffee line.
15:12I'm like, okay, great.
15:14And we, you know, researched lots of coffee providers, you know, the beans and whatever,
15:19and decided on one.
15:20And then designed the packaging and did all of that.
15:23So that's been great.
15:24And then, you know, then you have the line of the mugs that look like the labels.
15:27And I just, it's, it's just endless, this whole process.
15:30I love it.
15:31Do you think you'll get any more pets ever?
15:34Gosh, every day, I swear we, he's, he's on these, these rescue sites.
15:38I'm like, stop looking.
15:40You know, he sent one the other day of this cute little carrier.
15:44Oh, and I've read in the comments, I was like, okay, somebody's already applied because
15:47we're not going to go to Texas and get that dog because we have travel plans.
15:52We would have to either, I was like, he's like, oh, look at this cute dog.
15:55I was like, you want to cancel the plans?
15:57The snorkel trip?
15:58You might be done with that, you know?
16:00What's great about having a dog is that it pulls you out of yourself.
16:04You have to take care of something outside of yourself.
16:06And it can be expensive and it can be time consuming, but it's like the second or third
16:12day after chemo, I would take her for walks.
16:14You know, I had to take her for a walk or when I was doing a radiation, even though I
16:18didn't want to have to get up and take her out.
16:20And in New York, you know, in all kinds of weather and three times a day and it's 10 o
16:24'clock
16:24at night and it's freezing.
16:25So you put on your coat, you take the dog outside.
16:27And then you feel very self-important.
16:29You feel like I did something.
16:30What are you currently binging?
16:33Oh, I'm so sorry that shrinking is over.
16:36I love that too.
16:36The pit.
16:38Pluribus is great.
16:39Oh my gosh.
16:40I watched DT of St. Louis, which was odd, but wonderful.
16:44And then I, you know, I dip in with anything that comes new and I don't end up watching
16:49a lot of TV at night.
16:50I'd watch some after, you know, I can maybe good for only two hours.
16:53And if I'm into the second one that I'm trying, if I don't like it, you know, let it go.
16:59Maybe I'll come back later.
17:00What about comfort foods, favorite comfort foods?
17:03Like potato chips, spaghetti.
17:05I will eat spaghetti anytime.
17:07With cheese on top?
17:09Yes.
17:09A slice of cheese.
17:10A slice of cheese.
17:11Yeah.
17:12I, you know, it's one of those family things that you don't think is weird until somebody
17:16says it is.
17:18Yeah.
17:19I'm not, like I said, I'm not a foodie.
17:21I don't, I don't like spicy food.
17:22So that's a drag for Ken because he loves, he loves spicy food and he, he does.
17:27He's, he's an adventurous eater.
17:29I'm like, if there's chicken on the menu, I'm fine.
17:32What would your current self tell your younger self?
17:34I don't know.
17:35It's hard for me to imagine, you know, doing that.
17:39It seems like you're pretty good.
17:41Yeah.
17:41You're pretty smart along the way.
17:43Right.
17:43It's everything you did.
17:45Oh, thank you.
17:47What's the key to happiness in life?
17:50Right.
17:50Yeah.
17:51I'm going to know that.
17:53I think you have to find it for yourself.
17:55Well, that's good to look within yourself, maybe.
17:58Yeah.
17:58It's up to you.
17:59What's something no one knows about you?
18:01That isn't it?
18:01Well, I'm, whatever it is, I'm not going to tell.
18:07And you, well, you look amazing.
18:09You never age.
18:09You have a birthday coming up.
18:11Yes.
18:11Yeah.
18:11What do you do to take care of yourself?
18:13I don't know.
18:14I think I'm probably a fairly fortunate person is that I can do most anything I would like
18:21with my time because of my previous choices that have kept me and us and Ken's choices.
18:27It's kept us very comfortable.
18:28There's not a lot I have to fight against.
18:30A lot of times people say, as I often say, I don't need a vacation.
18:33I need a job, I would rather be working.
18:35And I usually work right around my birthday, oddly enough.
18:39And that makes me happy because that's what I want to be doing is working.
18:43Yeah.
18:43That's what's next.
18:44Yeah.
18:45That's what this is right now is doing this, the promoting of the book.
18:48Yes.
18:49Yes.
18:49What about acting?
18:51Anytime.
18:53I'm available.
18:54Well, I hope we do see you in more.
18:56I think it's going to happen.
18:58Me too.
18:58Get out there more with all the streaming platforms.
19:04Right.
19:04Yes.
19:05I can post you on some of these shows.
19:06Yes.
19:07And I know I will.
19:07I would be happy to be on those shows.
19:09I love TV.
19:10You're such a lovely person.
19:11Yeah.
19:12And your book and everything.
19:14And it's funny and it's sweet and warm and I love it.
19:17Thank you very much.
19:18Thank you so much.
19:20For more of this interview, check out Life Minute on all streaming podcast platforms.
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