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Mehr Geld fürs Militär? Abgeordnete streiten über Europas Rüstung in 'The Ring'
Mehr Rüstungsausgaben in Europa: strategische Investition oder Zugeständnis an Donald Trump? Darüber debattieren im Format „The Ring“ die EU‑Abgeordneten Marc Botenga und Lukas Mandl.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/05/22/mehr-geld-furs-militar-abgeordnete-streiten-uber-europas-rustung-in-the-ring
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Mehr Rüstungsausgaben in Europa: strategische Investition oder Zugeständnis an Donald Trump? Darüber debattieren im Format „The Ring“ die EU‑Abgeordneten Marc Botenga und Lukas Mandl.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/05/22/mehr-geld-furs-militar-abgeordnete-streiten-uber-europas-rustung-in-the-ring
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00:08Hallo und willkommen zu The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show,
00:12broadcasting from the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
00:15Today, I'm Stefan Grobe.
00:17On The Ring, members of the European Parliament go face-to-face
00:21on some of the biggest issues facing Europe.
00:24Today, we're going to talk about European defence efforts
00:27in a fast-changing geopolitical environment.
00:30Luis Alberto has more.
00:34Wars in Ukraine and Iran, economic insecurity
00:37and questions about the future of NATO.
00:40Europe finds itself at a moment of profound uncertainty.
00:44That sense of vulnerability has triggered a historic shift
00:48in European defence policy.
00:50Countries that for decades reduced military budgets
00:52are now dramatically increasing defence spending.
00:56Europe is also trying to redefine its alliance.
00:59And many European leaders argue that Europe
01:01must become more strategically autonomous.
01:03At the same time, Europe fears being sidelined
01:06if the world increasingly becomes shaped
01:08by deals between the United States, China and Russia.
01:12Can Europe successfully navigate this turbulent period?
01:15Can it emerge as truly independent global power?
01:21A lot to unpack here for our contenders.
01:24And here they are.
01:27Lukas Mandl, an Austrian MEP
01:29from the Central-Right European People's Party.
01:32He's a member of the Committees on Development,
01:34Legal Affairs and Civil Liberties,
01:36Justice and Home Affairs at the European Parliament.
01:39Regarding the EU's priorities
01:40at a time of growing global uncertainty
01:42and geopolitical turmoil,
01:43he said,
01:44It's the economy, stupid.
01:46Let's put first things first.
01:49Mark Botenga, a Belgian MEP from the Left Group.
01:52He's a member of the Committees on Foreign Affairs
01:54and Security and Defence at the European Parliament.
01:57He has criticised the EU's position on the global stage,
02:00arguing that the double standards of this Europe
02:02are not only a disgrace,
02:03they also allow the creation of a world of chaos and war.
02:06So be ashamed,
02:07because today this Europe is not a force for good,
02:10but an accomplice to crime.
02:14So let me welcome to the ring Lukas Mandl and Mark Botenga.
02:19Good to see you.
02:20Great to have you here.
02:22The aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse
02:25at European Parliament debates,
02:27so you should feel right at home.
02:30Are you ready?
02:31You're ready.
02:32Thanks for having me.
02:33Good.
02:33I want to start with something provocative, Mark Botenga.
02:37Will more money, more defence money,
02:40actually make Europe safer,
02:41or are governments confusing spending with strategy?
02:46Oh, I think definitely we don't have a strategy right now,
02:49so I think that's very impressive.
02:50Like, we put in a lot of money, right,
02:52hundreds and hundreds of billions going to the defence sector,
02:55very often with little conditions, first of all.
02:57So we also see that at the same time
02:59you have these multinational companies
03:00that are now sending a lot more money to their shareholders.
03:03But I'm like, are we just sponsoring basically not just their profits,
03:07but even their dividends, their share buybacks?
03:09So this is one question.
03:10But secondly, what are our priorities?
03:12We see that people are buying, you know,
03:15armoured vehicles to be used in the West of Africa.
03:18We're seeing the F-35 fighter jets being bought by member states.
03:23And I'm like, what is this for?
03:24This is not for our defence.
03:26This is, if we, with all of the money and all the material we have,
03:29you know, which is much more than what Russia has,
03:31you know, we have many times more tanks,
03:33many times more fighter jets,
03:34many times more battleships than Russia has.
03:37We see Russia struggling, you know,
03:38they were unable to even organise the parade in Moscow.
03:42Why are we not able to defend ourselves
03:44with the money we're already spending?
03:45Yeah.
03:46Let me take that question right to Lukas Mandel.
03:49Defence strategy or not?
03:50Oh, it's like everybody needs an insurance
03:52if you're driving a car or doing whatever,
03:55you need insurance and spending money for defence
03:58is an insurance for our security in the first place.
04:01And secondly, it's also for the very cause of Europe's prosperity
04:05because the more we can innovate and produce on European soil,
04:09the better for jobs, for growth, and for Europe's economic future.
04:14On this point, connecting Europe stronger,
04:16I mean, it's not like Europe doesn't have armies,
04:20it doesn't have had armies or defence spending before.
04:22Isn't the problem really inefficiency and fragmentation in Europe
04:28when we talk about military...
04:29Well, I remember the European Commission,
04:31the previous one, the one of Jean-Claude Juncker, you know,
04:33saying if we work together better at the European level,
04:36we can save up to 100 billion euros on defence spending.
04:42I'm like, that's marvellous.
04:44Let's do that, right?
04:45And now you see, no, we work together better,
04:46but we also need to spend hundreds of billions more
04:49while we're already outspending vast amount of countries in the world.
04:54Most countries in the world spend a lot less than European countries do.
04:57We need to really, really be aware of that.
05:00So there is no underfunding?
05:02Oh, there's absolutely no underfunding.
05:03There might be a very bad use of some of the funds.
05:06This is something else.
05:06We've seen it at European level as well.
05:08You know, until very recently, drones were not a priority,
05:11not a top priority of the European defence spending.
05:14Then suddenly it became everything, you know, drones were everything we needed,
05:18the Alpha, the Omega.
05:19And now we're again, yeah, maybe it's not drones that are the main priority.
05:23So this is what I was saying.
05:24There's no real strategy, but there is an idea of saying
05:26Europe, you know, should be a main player globally.
05:30This is not about defence.
05:32This is about Europe being able to project power in the rest of the world,
05:35you know, in Africa, in the Middle East.
05:38Not defence, attack.
05:39Do you agree?
05:41We have big underfunding.
05:43We have had it for many decades in Europe.
05:46We have to invest in drones.
05:47I really want to address these conspiracy theories that are there
05:51as if it would not be for our defence, but for a different cause.
05:54It's for our defence.
05:55Europe is the very entity on this planet that's planning military matters
06:01in the very field of defence, not in the field of attack.
06:04And drones are obviously what's really needed in today's warfare.
06:08And if we are well equipped in the field of drones, if we have innovation also in the drones
06:13field and also production on European soil for jobs and prosperity, then we have a smaller
06:19probability that we will be attacked because we will be more secure if we are able to defend
06:24ourselves.
06:24And this is the whole philosophy of defence.
06:27So our security is at stake.
06:29And I think conspiracy theories are rather harming our European unity and our European defence
06:35capability.
06:36First of all, I don't think the massive increase is justified.
06:39Let's say this first.
06:40Secondly, I think it actually will weaken Europe on the long term as well, because contrary to
06:45what you're saying, it is not a good idea for our industry.
06:47You know, we have, you speak about jobs.
06:50Basically, the defence industry yields less jobs for money invested than other sectors
06:54do.
06:55You will not save the steel industry with militarisation.
06:58You know, producing 1,000 tanks, it's about three days of production of a steel factory.
07:03So you can see that you're actually weakening.
07:05Also, there's a negative multiplier effect that might be applied to other industries.
07:10So you're weakening structurally the industrial base of Europe by saying we put more defence,
07:14but we will lose other sectors.
07:15First, look at the automobile sector.
07:18And secondly, indeed, what is the threat that justifies, you know, this massive...
07:22Why, for example, if I hear the German Chancellor, right, saying, I want to have the biggest
07:27army in Europe.
07:28Why do you want the biggest army in Europe?
07:30Is that your threat assessment?
07:32That the problem is you don't have the biggest army in Europe?
07:34We need to be very clear.
07:36There are threats, you know, and one of the threats is the arms race.
07:39One of the threats is nuclear war.
07:40Let's be very clear.
07:41This is very clear.
07:42How do you deal with that?
07:44During the Cold War, we knew disarmament, transparency, limitations on arms control systems.
07:51All of these things we knew during the Cold War with the Soviet Union that was vastly more
07:56powerful and vastly more ideological than Putin or Putin's Russia will ever be.
08:02In the Cold War, freedom won against dictatorship.
08:05And this was, of course, due to deterrence.
08:09And deterrence is what is needed.
08:11Deterrence will also save us.
08:12And deterrence is only possible if we can take care of ourselves.
08:15And the security sector and industries is not isolated from other sectors.
08:20We have to understand Europe.
08:21And I really care for Europe's prosperity, for jobs on our continent and for the future of the generations ahead.
08:28Europe became a continent of consumption.
08:30We have been consuming over decades innovation from America, production from China and other parts of Asia.
08:37Asia, also innovation from China in the meantime.
08:40So we need innovation on European soil.
08:42We also need production on European soil.
08:44And when you talk about the automotive sector, there are not many sectors as much connected to the security sector
08:49as this one.
08:50So security and economy has to be taken serious.
08:55That's why I'm also saying let's put first things first.
08:58This must be the priority.
08:59But I guess the threat assessment is different in the Baltics and in Portugal, right?
09:06So I'm coming back to Putin here.
09:08Shall we take him seriously?
09:09Shall we fear him?
09:10Is this whole buildup a response to Russian assertiveness and aggression?
09:16I think we invoke the Russian aggression in Ukraine to justify programs that existed before.
09:22Let's not forget that, for example, the European Defense Fund was started before the current war in Ukraine.
09:26So there is, of course, you know, I mean, the defense fund was so important for for Europe to be
09:31started ahead of the Russian attack.
09:34But the quantity is so important.
09:36The connection is so important.
09:37When we see that, I mean, you should not underestimate it.
09:39Let me get back.
09:41First of all, with these things, we're putting a lot of money, extra money, you know, by saying Russia is
09:47going.
09:47There's this very there's a contradiction in European mainstream discourse, which is saying at the same time that Russia is
09:53extremely weak, is losing in Ukraine.
09:55And we might be able to free Ukraine from Russian occupation militarily.
09:59And then you have these these these images of the Red Square in Moscow where there's no parade.
10:04And on the other hand, the fact that Putin would be able to conquer the whole of Europe.
10:08You know, these are two things that are obviously incompatible right now at the same moment.
10:12But we don't want to find out what we don't want to find out is right now.
10:16What, for example, a desperate Russia would do.
10:18Right.
10:19But could it be more desperate than it already is?
10:21Sorry.
10:22I mean, do you see any reliability or predictability in Putin's regime?
10:27There is already desperation.
10:30So we have to be able to defend ourselves.
10:32I agree with the commission's president who has stated we have to keep our hand reached out to the other
10:38Russia.
10:38I'm absolutely aware of that, that after Putin's regime, we have to give Russia the chance to become a democratic
10:46rule of law.
10:47We need to have diplomacy right now.
10:48We need to do diplomacy right now.
10:50And this is the disaster, the disaster of this European Union.
10:53We have forgotten what diplomacy is.
10:56Talk to other people.
10:57And diplomacy doesn't mean going having a drink with a friend.
11:01Diplomacy is talking to the opponent, to the adversary, to the enemy.
11:05This is to de-escalate and to limit conflict.
11:09And most countries in the world have tried this, and the European Union has refused.
11:12Now I see Angela Merkel, you know, who got the Order of Merits.
11:15I see Alexander Stobsting.
11:17We need to do that.
11:17Right.
11:17A lot of names floating around.
11:19We'll come back to this later.
11:21But I want to stop you here as we're just getting warmed up, as you can see.
11:29Now it's time for our viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament chamber, where members ask each
11:35other questions.
11:36And sometimes it can get heated.
11:38So let's get started.
11:40Lukas Madl, I'm going to ask you to ask the first question to Mark.
11:45Well, Mark Potenga, as a colleague in the European Parliament, how can we make sure that we establish more freedom
11:52for the Europeans to the inside and more strength to the outside?
11:55This is the overall issue of our time.
11:57I would say Europe needs more strength for its civilization, for its reliability.
12:01The diplomatic approach that you obviously do not see from the European side, while Europe is the strongest diplomatic power,
12:09given the geopolitical situation today.
12:11So how can we create more strength to the outside?
12:13And how can we establish more freedom to the inside for our citizens?
12:16I think that's a very interesting question coming from the center-right, who's governing in many governments in Europe, and
12:22who's basically limiting the right to protest,
12:25who's limiting the right to strike, who's limiting basically fundamental freedoms of Europeans.
12:31And so I would say, first thing, please tell the governments of your political group, of your political party, to
12:38stop limiting the fundamental freedoms of Europeans.
12:41And secondly, towards the outside, I need, we need, I think, to rebuild European credibility.
12:48And how do we do that?
12:49We do that by stopping the double standards, by no longer saying international law is important for us in Ukraine,
12:55but in Palestine we don't care.
12:57International law is important when Russia or Putin violates it, but we don't care when Trump violates international law.
13:04Because if you have these double standards, never, ever will other countries take you seriously.
13:10And never, ever will you be a decent player on the international scale.
13:14Okay.
13:14On this, I think you want to follow up.
13:17I mean, there is so much to be said.
13:20I think it was now the fourth or fifth conspiracy theory from Mr. Potenga in today's talk about freedom being
13:26limited in Europe.
13:27There is no part on this planet, no continent, no country where freedom is so much established and so much
13:32defended and strong as it is in Europe.
13:36Obviously, also that we have this debate today, also that extremists have all democratic rights in parliaments in Europe, including
13:44the very European Parliament.
13:46All of this is about freedom.
13:47And then mixing things up doesn't make it better.
13:50Of course, when international law is violated, Europe is the strongest voice speaking about that.
13:55Europe stood strong against Trump's attempt, for example, when it comes to Greenland.
14:00And we succeeded in that area.
14:02Europe stood strong when it was not clear whether the terrorists will go that way or the other way from
14:08Trump's side.
14:09He put us in a limbo again, but we didn't follow this pathway of a limbo.
14:13We didn't enter this political battlefield of Trump.
14:16We stood strong and we managed to succeed more when it comes to the geopolitical tensions given than other parts
14:24of the world.
14:24But, of course, we need more strength to the outside, especially in that field you are doubting, in the field
14:30of our own security and being able to take care of it.
14:33Mark Maja, you want to react?
14:34And then your question to Lukas Mander.
14:36Well, I think it's interesting because very often the EPP and central parties, when they don't have an answer, they
14:41say this is a conspiracy theory.
14:43What we see in many countries, like in Germany now, there's a debate even on saying we can't use the
14:47watermelon anymore as a political symbol because it would be anti-Semitic.
14:50This is what we are seeing. We're seeing this also with action against trade unions in different countries.
14:56So we see that there's a democratic backsliding, which human rights organizations are pointing out in Europe.
15:01You know, it's not some kind of left conspiracy to say that.
15:04But you don't want to see it because it's your government's doing it.
15:07Secondly, what I indeed want to ask now, and I think that's a thing.
15:12You say that Europe stands up for international law and you quote Greenland.
15:18But Europe didn't stand up for international law in Greenland.
15:22It stood up for its own territorial integrity.
15:25That is something very different because when we had to stand up for international law, the illegal war on Iran,
15:32you supported it yourself.
15:33When it is about denouncing the illegal occupation of Lebanon by Israel, you support it.
15:38When the International Court of Justice says that we should sanction Israel as third parties, we have a responsibility, you
15:45refuse it.
15:45So basically, when, you know, the Venezuelan president, whatever we think of him, is kidnapped illegally and the world globally
15:52condemns this, saying this is just absolutely not how we deal with, how would I say, with international relations and
15:58this is a violation of the UN Charter, you support it.
16:01So this is the issue.
16:02These double standards, it's not Europe that has double standards.
16:05You know, it is you, it is the governing coalition of Europe that has these double standards.
16:10Look, who is dealing with international law, who is in the lead of preserving it and observing it is the
16:17United Nations.
16:18We had yesterday night in the European Parliament's plenary a debate on the United Nations necessary reform.
16:24United Nations have to be reformed for obvious reasons.
16:27And if you are telling now that the war on the Iranian regime was wrong, I say, yeah, it was
16:35amateurishly done by the United States while the decapitation of the Mueller regime's leaders worked very well.
16:44But the war obviously was wrong because it didn't work out well.
16:48The Mueller regime is still in place.
16:49I have been sanctioned myself by the Mueller regime since 2023, so I know what I'm talking about when I
16:54say women are suppressed in Iran.
16:57Iran is threatening the whole world, not only the region, and of course to threaten our only partner country in
17:04the region, the only democracy, the only rule of law-based state in the region, Israel, is part of the
17:10conspiracy theories of your political side.
17:12And this is a sign of freedom in Europe, that you can speak freely about that, even if it's a
17:18very much in minority being opinion.
17:22But you are allowed to say that, and there are no many parts on Earth where you can do that.
17:27And last point on Greenland.
17:28I mean, when international law is violated, it doesn't matter whether it's Europe's interest or ours' interest.
17:32We care for international law.
17:34We even want to save international law during these geopolitical times of tensions.
17:39And that means that we have to reform the United Nations.
17:42Okay, thank you for a great debate so far.
17:45We've heard your views.
17:47Now it's time to hear from a new voice.
17:54And for our quote of the week, I would like to bring in Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.
17:59In a letter addressed to Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, she said this.
18:04We cannot justify to our citizens that the EU allows financial flexibility to be used for security and defense purposes
18:13in the strictest sense, but not to protect families, workers and enterprises from a new energy crisis that threatens to
18:21severely impact the real economy.
18:25Your take on this, Mark?
18:27Well, two things.
18:28First, she's walked back to her statement.
18:30Secondly, it's terribly hypocritical because the fact that we now have, again, these horrible austerity rules was approved by her
18:38government.
18:38So first, this is fantastic.
18:40First, the far right approves this, or the center right, whatever you want to call her, approves these rules.
18:46And then they say, ah, it's not fair.
18:47So this is, you know, pure populism.
18:50But what is true is that Europe today says there's no money for your hospitals, for your pensions, for your
18:56schools.
18:57But, miraculously, we find hundreds of billions for the defense multinationals.
19:02You know, this contradiction is real.
19:04And so, indeed, we do not need these austerity rules anymore.
19:07And once again, they've been imposed by the mainstream parties, including Georgia Maloney's.
19:12Okay.
19:12Lucas Mandel, your reaction?
19:14Yeah, this is part of the extremist populist approach.
19:16I think also the consumers, viewers of this program should see that there is no contradiction between producing something on
19:22European soil instead from buying it from outside and having hospitals and schools and streets because the one thing is
19:31connected with the other.
19:32If we have strong prosperity, if we have growth, finally, in Europe, again, we will also be able to afford
19:37the social welfare states.
19:38We have established generations before us have established in Europe, and we will have schools and roads.
19:43All right, we're going to continue the conversation, but now I'll have to take a break here on The Ring.
19:48We'll be back with more after this.
19:50Stay with us.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:03I'm Stefan Gorbe, and I'm joined by Lucas Mandel from the European People's Party from Austria and Marc Botenga from
20:09the Left Group from Belgium.
20:11At this point, let's take a look at the Transatlantic Partnership regarding defense.
20:17Trump wants to weaken the NATO alliance and seems increasingly noncommittal to common defense.
20:23But the military business is showing a different picture.
20:26So here are some numbers from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.
20:31According to that institute, 64% of European NATO weapons imports come from the United States.
20:38And European arms imports rose by more than 150% between 2020 and 2024 compared to the previous period.
20:47U.S. arms exports to Europe increased by more than 200% in the same period.
20:52So Europe is now the world's largest arms important region.
20:59Lukas Mandel, hearing these numbers, your comments.
21:02I mean, we had a time of many good beginnings since the beginning of Putin-Russia's war.
21:07But spending is not everything.
21:08I've emphasized that before.
21:10It's about where to spend.
21:12It's about the connection between the armed forces of the member states and also the understanding of the various different
21:19threats.
21:19Now we see the situation that the United States are obviously willing to reduce their number of troops on European
21:27soil.
21:28I think that's not only a development due to the given current U.S. administration under Trump.
21:34It was generally something that had to be expected over decades.
21:38And a mature Europe will anyway be able to take care of itself.
21:42But I do not want to have confrontation with other parts of the world.
21:45I want cooperation, but on the basis of European strength.
21:47Okay.
21:49How can we be strategically independent by buying American weapons?
21:53Oh, we cannot.
21:54Let's be very clear.
21:54If you buy, for example, I mentioned the F-35 fighters as before.
21:58Making a little bit of a cartoon out of it, you could say that with one push of the button,
22:03Trump can deactivate them.
22:04So if it were to, I don't know, defend Greenland, they would be completely useless.
22:09We do need to think how you create this autonomy.
22:13This you can do in different ways.
22:14One of the ways I would suggest is to say we need to diversify partnerships.
22:18So this idea of we are locking ourselves up in this kind of submissive attitude towards Trump.
22:25We've seen it as well with the trade deal and the EU-US trade deal where we accept to give
22:31tariff-free access to the European market for many, many goods from the U.S.
22:35But ourselves, you know, we see that we impose...
22:38What do you mean by diversifying?
22:39Is it buying from Brazil or India?
22:40Yeah, for example.
22:41I mean, you have your own industry, obviously, you know.
22:44You produce what you want to produce.
22:45In the first place, we have to produce ourselves.
22:47But secondly, no, no, but we produce ourselves.
22:50That's not, I mean, because you said before that we do not produce anymore.
22:54First of all, this deindustrialization, which is true and which is real, is not a gift from God.
23:01This is a consequence of policies that have been waged on this continent by your group.
23:07So let's not pretend this comes from nowhere.
23:09Workers throughout Europe have seen their jobs disappear in industry because of the policies, the market-driven policies your group
23:16has imposed on this continent.
23:18I agree with the point that Europe has its own responsibility here, but it clearly came from ideological left sources
23:24that we had this policies.
23:25But you were the one governing it.
23:27This was a market approach.
23:28How can you say the left is responsible for it?
23:31But this makes no sense.
23:33We have better majorities in the European Parliament since the last election.
23:35I'm ready to have a debate of ideas.
23:37You're doing stop and block omnibus.
23:38I'm ready to have a debate of ideas.
23:39But you cannot say that it has been the left pushing for liberalization, that it has been the left pushing
23:46for privatization, for the sellout of our industries.
23:50This is just not true.
23:51The left is pushing for bureaucracy, for reporting duties, putting burden on our businesses and killing jobs.
23:59Let's have an honest debate on ideas.
24:01It's been the center right, sometimes with social democrats in the coalition, that has sold off our industries and that
24:07has privatized, liberalized our markets.
24:10And this would create, I don't know what kind of Eldorado.
24:13The reality today is what?
24:16Deindustrialization and a lot of issues for European industry.
24:19We need more freedom.
24:21You have refused to invest sufficiently in public energy infrastructure.
24:25And today, our industries are being chased away by the fact that the energy prices are too high.
24:30And still today, you're sabotaging the cheapest energy that would be, green energy, keeping us dependent on fossil fuels from
24:36I don't know what countries.
24:37All right.
24:38We'll come back to this.
24:39And now it's the time to move on to our fifth and final round.
24:47And we want to do something different now.
24:49I'm going to ask you a set of questions and you can only answer with a yes or no.
24:54Okay.
24:55Lukas Mander, I'll start with you.
24:56Should there be a common European army?
24:59On the long run, yes.
25:01No, not now.
25:02No.
25:03Okay.
25:04Can Europe realistically build credible military autonomy without duplicating NATO structures?
25:11It's a long debate.
25:12I just want to say, yes, if that's the question, yes, we can.
25:15I think we should work on a common security architecture in Europe.
25:19Okay.
25:20No, we can't.
25:21We have to do it within NATO.
25:23We have to reform NATO, such as UN also.
25:26And, of course, it will be within NATO because to have redundancies is the worst thing we can do with
25:32taxpayers' money and also with our security.
25:34Okay.
25:34Will NATO outlive Donald Trump?
25:38Absolutely.
25:39I hope not.
25:41You hope not?
25:41Yes.
25:42I mean, I think NATO today, you know, NATO is something that comes from the Cold War.
25:46It had a sense at the time, the war show packed against NATO.
25:51Today, we need a common European security architecture.
25:54NATO is something from the past.
25:55And Donald Trump is the living illustration of this.
25:58Interesting.
25:59And finally, was there anything over the last half hour that you think your opponent said that you can agree
26:08with?
26:09I can't say that.
26:11Only maybe that European economic trouble is also based on our own European responsibility from the past.
26:17But I wouldn't direct that to the very center of politics.
26:23It was the extremists who were stronger over decades.
26:25Now we have better majorities in the European Parliament.
26:27Now we lift burden from our businesses.
26:30So maybe we agree on that.
26:32And I'm very happy to be European, seeing that somebody from the far extremists, in that case to the left,
26:38there are also ones to the right, are allowed to speak freely.
26:41And there are not many parts of the world where this is possible.
26:44Any agreements with Lukas Maldon?
26:45Well, definitely not with this part.
26:47I mean, the far right has never been stronger in this parliament than you say that normal parties are stronger.
26:51That's very weird.
26:52One point I think I agree on is the fact that the issue with, let's say, defense and security is
26:59not a matter of more money.
27:01It's a matter of more cooperation, you know.
27:04And this, I think, he said, but this kind of contradicts the position of saying we need more money for
27:08defense.
27:09But I agree on this part.
27:10We need more cooperation and more coordination.
27:13Wonderful.
27:14And that final answer brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:18Thanks again to Mark Buttenga and Lukas Maldon for a lively conversation here from the European Parliament.
27:23Thanks to our audience at home.
27:25If you like, you can continue the conversation by sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com.
27:32We'd love to have your feedback.
27:34That's it for today.
27:36I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:37Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:47Euronews.
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