- 2 days ago
Are young Malaysians thriving or simply trying to keep up? Erika Seow from Hoodle and UKM’s Aqilah Mohammad Fairuz explore the realities of youth burnout, financial pressure and what it takes to create space for young people to thrive.
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00:07Hello and welcome to It's About Youth. I'm your host, Fahna Sheh.
00:11Now, burnout, side hustle and the constant pressure to perform.
00:15For many young Malaysians, student life today can feel less like a period of discovery and more like in survival
00:22mode.
00:22And recent suggests from Hoodle that 75% of university students believe burnout is simply a part of student life.
00:30While many say they feel emotionally drained but rarely ask for help.
00:35At the same time, side hustles are no longer just for extra income but has become a necessity for most
00:42of them.
00:42These are the realities of student life today.
00:45And to unpack all this, we have two brilliant people joining us today.
00:49Okay, Erika Soe, co-founder of Hoodle as well as Akilah Mohamad-Fairos from the University Kebangsaan Malaysia to unpack
00:58the student realities today.
01:00Let's start that.
01:01So, let me start where the statistics is now from Hoodle, right?
01:0475% of students say burnout is simply part of student lives.
01:08What does that tell you about youth culture today?
01:11Maybe, Erika, we can start with you.
01:12Yeah, sure.
01:13So, yeah, when we say 75%, it sounds like a big number.
01:17But when it's a big number, it becomes normalized.
01:22So, what's alarming about this number here is when majority of your friends are facing the same thing,
01:30they feel that they are part of something normal.
01:32And that is really scary because you're normalizing something very critical.
01:37You've reached a stage of burnout means it's a compilation of stress.
01:41So, there wasn't a right way to release those stress that led to a space of burnout.
01:49And then what we are really missing here is not seeing that we have normalized something that is scary to
01:57the student life.
01:57Yeah.
01:58Right.
01:59Akilah, speaking as a student yourself, is that true?
02:02Is what Erika is saying true?
02:05Definitely.
02:06I think because burnout has been so, so normalized, it ends up being like a part of our daily life.
02:13And when that happens, you see these students losing spark.
02:17I've been there as well as a student myself, like seeing myself losing my spark because of burnout.
02:24And when that happens, it ends up that these students or the youth are living just to reach the bare
02:31minimum.
02:31It's no longer living for purpose.
02:34It's no longer like I'm in this university to study, to do what I want anymore.
02:40It's more of just like, as long as I pass or as long as I manage, I'll graduate, that's it.
02:48And I think that's the saddening part about burnout being a culture now.
02:52Right.
02:52I mean, the statistic is there.
02:54So, we have established that it's normalized.
02:56Can we unpack it a little bit more?
02:58So, what's causing the burnout one?
03:01And also, what does it look like?
03:03Because sometimes it's not really visible, you know?
03:05Even, you know, in the job landscape, people experience burnout all the time, but you don't really see it.
03:12You don't really know how to identify it.
03:15Maybe, Akilah, we can start with you.
03:17Like, what's causing the burnout and what does it look like?
03:21I think what's causing the burnout will most likely be the expectations that the younger generation have upon themselves.
03:29I think throughout every generation, everyone has experienced social expectations.
03:34Everyone has experienced family expectations, friends' expectations, expectations from yourself.
03:39But I think it's more prevalent for the younger generation, especially because of social media.
03:45Social media, you're seeing everything live.
03:47You're seeing everyone going on with their lives.
03:49And this is like a formal thing, I would say, actually.
03:53You're seeing people at a young age, they're already achieving this and that.
03:56They're already buying houses.
03:57They're earning 10K, 15K per month.
04:00While you're in that situation, like, I'm barely even earning the minimum wage.
04:05So, I think that's causing people to have this very high expectations on themselves for some sort of validation as
04:13well.
04:14And, yeah, when this happens along the way, it causes them a functional freeze.
04:20Like, they become stagnant and stillness.
04:24They're no longer doing things with meaning.
04:26They're only doing it just for the sake of it.
04:28And I think, yeah, outside they might look lazy, but inside they're just trying to cope.
04:35I have a very interesting point here to make because I'm coming in from a different generation.
04:41You and I both.
04:44All three of us from a different generation.
04:46So, we're coming from a very different generation.
04:47And we, so, the other day I actually dived into something that's not so much hive mind research, but, you
04:55know, just a generic research, right?
04:57So, within a generation gap, the mental health cases has went up by three times.
05:04And then, that's only based on our hive mind research among the four out of ten people who wants to
05:10talk about it.
05:11So, if I do the math, we're talking about three out of four people among the youth is actually going
05:18through some form of mental health cases.
05:24And we're not talking about three X more.
05:26We're talking about 7.5 times more.
05:28Yeah, that's a lot more.
05:29When you jump a generation.
05:30Yeah, that's true.
05:31So, but, and what are we factoring all this to, right?
05:34We, as our generation, usually the youth come in, we'll say that, ah, lemah lah, ah, weak, ah, belum start
05:41kerja dah stress.
05:43Yeah.
05:43So, usually that's like the lines that comes out.
05:46But we see them as weak, like you said just now, they see themselves as just trying to cope.
05:52So, it's, sometimes it's not them, but it's the environment.
05:56Because we can be coming from the same environment and we'll be falling into the same category.
06:02Yeah.
06:02I mean, there's definitely, like from my point of view, there's definitely a lot of stresses today that are more
06:08apparent.
06:09One, because of social media and, you know, economic struggles, just basic cost of living, climate change.
06:18There's, there's so many things that youths are thinking about that maybe when I'm a lot younger before, I didn't
06:24think about that so much.
06:25Like, I just want to get good grades, I want to get good study, get good job.
06:29But youths today, I feel, has a lot on their minds.
06:32They do.
06:33Yeah, yeah, definitely.
06:34Right, so, you mentioned just now, you know, these are the statistics, but at the same time, there's probably a
06:41lot more people who haven't come forward to, to ask for help or to talk about it or, you know,
06:47to, to, to seek solutions, right?
06:50Yeah.
06:50So, so, so why is that?
06:52So, why do you think so many young people today probably have all these struggles, but not asking for help?
06:57Maybe Akilah, we can start with you.
06:58I think with the day and age that we are in a digital era, everything is like on the tip
07:04of our fingers.
07:05Like, whenever you're curious about something, you could just Google it, you can listen to podcasts about it.
07:11I think awareness is being brought up regarding our mental health.
07:14Everyone's like advocating, oh, mental health, mental health this, mental health that.
07:19Everyone's advocating being vulnerable.
07:21But we are only being informed about what it is, but not how to approach it.
07:28If you get what I mean.
07:29So a lot of us are just talking about our emotions, but because we're not talking how to cope with
07:35it or how to approach mental health in a good way or in like with good coping mechanisms.
07:41I think that's why we're having this stillness in that topic where people are like, we want to talk about
07:48it, but when someone comes up with it, we're like, okay, so what do we do next?
07:53I think that's, that's like a prominent issue right now.
07:56So there's like a gap.
07:57So you're saying the information is out there, the awareness is out there, but utilizing it and, and sort of
08:05fitting it into your context.
08:06So for example, if you're struggling, that's the gap, is it?
08:09Yeah, basically.
08:09I think a lot of the younger generation are always using trendy words saying that if they're stressed out, they're
08:16going to go, oh, I'm going to go healing.
08:18Touch the grass, grounding and everything, but they don't understand the meaning behind it or like the proper way to
08:27do it.
08:28So I think when we are so dismissive about that or dismissive or avoiding the topic of how to actually
08:35approach it or approach the mental health topic appropriately.
08:38I think that's why people are feeling scared because they're like, we can be out there, but how will people
08:45respond actually?
08:46Is that true, Erika?
08:48Actually, yeah, it's really, really true.
08:50So I'm going to share this experience where we are coming in from the society point of view.
08:57And then, so it was the past three years, huddle, we have been going on ground a lot.
09:02And then the first few times we're going on ground, we call it the hangout.
09:06So kita just nak hangout je.
09:08But during the hangout, the youth will be like, okay, kat nak apa? Nak kita follow? Atau nak buat apa?
09:15So somehow they feel that it's going to be a transaction.
09:18So we, I feel that the society approach youth with an expectation to either I want to come and fix
09:26you or I want to come and do something for you.
09:30But what's really missing here is, are we listening to understand or are we listening to just throw you a
09:39solution?
09:40So what we found through Half Mind is that youth or mental health awareness is not lacking of, but actually
09:49understanding it and co-creating it together with the youth, it's really a big gap here.
09:56And that's where we found, you know, our purpose.
09:59Right, right. I mean, there's definitely a lot to unpack, I feel, with a lot of youths today with, you
10:06know, their struggles with mental health.
10:07Like you said, you know, the statistics are there, like there are, a lot of them are struggling and a
10:12lot of them, a lot of them are not talking about it.
10:14And despite the awareness, a lot of them don't know how to use it, right?
10:18You want to take a look, take a little bit of time later to talk about the solutions here and
10:24where Hoodo comes in.
10:25But we'll go for a quick break first.
10:41Hello and welcome back to It's About Youth.
10:43Today we are joined by Akilah and Erika to talk about the struggles of mental health when it comes to
10:49university students.
10:51And during, before break, we talk about, you know, how some of them rarely talk about it and how most
10:59of them are not aware on how to solve their issues.
11:03So that's where I think Hoodo comes in, right?
11:07But I think before that, there's also one statistics that I want to bring forward because Hoodo has gone on
11:14the ground and talked to students and these students have sort of, you know, tell them about their issues.
11:20Side hustles, so side incomes.
11:21This is pretty common, I think, among younger generations today.
11:25And a lot of them, you know, be either in content creation or being in TikTok or anything like that.
11:30There's plenty of avenues.
11:32But has it become a necessity instead of a choice in today's environment?
11:38Like are young people pursuing this as ambition or are they simply trying to survive?
11:43Maybe, Erika, we can start with you.
11:45Yeah, sure.
11:46Actually, when we start getting into the space of side income, something that actually really made us feel like we
11:54need to stop and think about this is when we found out that a student will skip his lecture because
12:02he's on a ride to send a parcel.
12:08So, so when we, when we did that, then you go like, so are they have, is this a side
12:13income?
12:14Is this supposed to be on a side?
12:15What means your primary objective is being a student and then it's supposed to be by your side or is
12:20it taking over your primary role as a student?
12:24So that's something that we started to realise that it's no longer so much about empowering youth and okay and
12:34above,
12:35but it's also looking back at youth survival.
12:40So, so that's, that's something that we felt that it became something that's quite alarming for us as well.
12:48Yeah.
12:48Right.
12:49Is that the reality today, Akilah?
12:51Among your peers, a lot of them sort of pursuing, you know, side hustle, side income because of this reason?
12:59Yeah, definitely.
13:00I mean, I'm actually one of those statistics as well.
13:02Like I realised that throughout degree, I've always had a side income, some sort of side income, either by working
13:09directly somewhere or doing businesses on the side.
13:12And a lot of my classmates as well, they're doing those like part-time jobs whenever they can, affiliations, TikTok
13:20or whatever.
13:21And I feel like it's not just because they want to survive as a person, but with the current trends
13:30and everything, they're being pushed to feel like they need this amount of money to survive.
13:34Like if they don't have this amount of savings by the age of a certain age, you're failing as a
13:40person, you're not financially dependent, you don't have that financial security.
13:43And I think that's what's going on with the younger generation.
13:46I also have the anxiety, I guess you can call it financial anxiety.
13:51I've seen a lot of people having to like do even two to three different jobs at one time, but
13:57as a student as well.
13:58And how Erica mentioned, sometimes when they have a job, they don't, they don't longer know their priority as a
14:04student.
14:05Should they go to class?
14:07But if they go to class, they don't have money.
14:10Yeah, they'd have money.
14:11But if they go to work, they're going to miss their class and they're going to get left behind.
14:16So I think this is the sad reality for students these days, especially when they're coming from a family that's
14:21maybe, you know, previous generation, they have a really big family.
14:25And maybe by previous generation, it's easy to sustain even with a big family.
14:31But now if you have a big family, it's like really costly.
14:33And they're like one of the younger siblings.
14:36So they're just trying to survive.
14:37They're trying to help the parents as well.
14:39So yeah, it's a reality for us today.
14:42And it's a very sad reality, I feel.
14:44For a lot of students, like I said, your 20s and your 18s, you know, early, late teens.
14:51These are the times where you're supposed to be with friends and to expand, to figure out who you want
14:56to be and not think so much about financial anxieties, not think so much about, you know, how to make
15:03ends meet because that comes a bit later, right?
15:06Yeah, I mean, I think I have to say I come from quite a privileged background to be able to
15:13work for pleasure last time when I was a student.
15:16And I think that's not the case when people have to take three, four jobs, right?
15:21Yeah, I mean, that's a very eye-opening fact for today's students to meet their struggles.
15:30So yeah, so Hudul, that's where Hudul comes in, right?
15:33So Hudul talks about turning passion into opportunity.
15:39And realistically, what are young religions actually looking for today, you know, based on what you guys are doing?
15:46Are they looking for money, flexibility, support, stability, or is it everything?
15:51Yeah, so what Hudul feel is both things are supposed to exist together.
15:59So you should have a sense of security, financial security, and the base of things that support that you need
16:06to be a student.
16:07And you should also well-deserve a chance to chase your passion and be that bright young youth that you're
16:16supposed to be.
16:17You're going to university, you just finish your secondary school, and then you're going to university.
16:23It's a hopeful place.
16:27And it's not very nice.
16:30Sometimes when we enter, we feel that instead of being a very hopeful place, you feel a very down, it's
16:40very bleak, right?
16:41So there's one time this girl said to me, Kak, I tak tahu what is my future lepas 25 years
16:50old.
16:51So we were like, you know, when we were younger, we already planning our career, our family, and then we
16:59are always just that excited youth.
17:00And then when they said this, and then I realized it wasn't just her.
17:04I realized it's a vast majority saying that I can't see what it is.
17:11And then another girl, after a whole hour of talking about passion, they said that passion, I don't think I
17:18deserve passion.
17:20So they feel that their dream now is actually the necessity.
17:25I need to make money, money first.
17:26And then when I make up the money, then I can enjoy later.
17:30So that's when they said that for them, it's like their dream is to pursue a basic living.
17:35No longer my dream is to pursue my passion.
17:38So that's why Hoodo is here to close that gap.
17:41We want to be able to find a way to repurpose existing resources and change it, not a lot, like
17:50maybe even 10%,
17:51and move it into the resourcing the youth so that they have a little bit of space where they know
17:57that, hey, I can actually not look into my passion.
18:00And we strongly believe that both can exist together, your interests and your livelihood.
18:05So how do you do that?
18:07Do you mind sharing a little bit about your engagement, your projects?
18:10So they are coming in phases, but as of now, it is a very interesting journey where we have two
18:18sites to introduce because it's a new concept, right?
18:21So we have introducing to brands and marketeers, how do you actually spend your marketing dollar?
18:27And then also introducing to youth that don't feel so bleak, help is coming.
18:34So for the youth, it's about gaining the trust.
18:37Because in the first year of Hoodo, they used to tell us that you guys are scammer.
18:43So they don't believe that it's too good to be true.
18:46It's like what is hidden?
18:48What is your hidden agenda?
18:50So that's on the youth side.
18:51So we're working really hard to build trust with youth.
18:53And then on the brand side is I'm used to spending 70% of my marketing budget in digital.
19:00So why are you asking me to spend 10% to youth?
19:04It's not like exactly like why are you asking me to spend to youth, but they're still used to sending
19:08true digital to rich youth instead of working with youth to directly connect with youth.
19:15So it's a two-end battle.
19:18But currently, that's what we're doing.
19:19We are educating brands and we're also gaining trust with the youth.
19:23And then moving forward, hopefully we can create a healthier ecosystem where brands can repurpose their marketing budget into resourcing
19:31passion for youth.
19:32And you have a more vibrant university life.
19:35That's a nice way to put it.
19:38So Akilah, coming from a student's perspective here, you know, we have mentioned that students feel burnout, students are struggling
19:47with side incomes, and students are just not asking for help.
19:51So what kind of support do they actually need, you know, and are universities, families, or even your peers providing
20:00that?
20:01Okay, so I think so far, being from a social science faculty, I feel like support is actually accessible for
20:12students.
20:12Because when universities, they have like a counselling or therapy sessions, like they have a counselling unit.
20:20For example, in UKM, it's called PKBK.
20:23It's a pusat counselling and therapy unit in our own faculty.
20:27It's accessible for all the students.
20:30It's just that the support that they're going to get if they go.
20:35Maybe for some, they feel like, oh, once I go reach out to this sort of support, it wouldn't be
20:43transactional with my family and friends.
20:45Would they also validate that?
20:47Or would they be dismissive about that?
20:49So I think the kind of support that they need is a safe zone.
20:53Okay.
20:54Or like a safe space.
20:55I mean, everyone talks about safe space.
20:57But how safe can we ensure it to be?
20:59So a safe space should be somewhere where they are heard, they are validated.
21:05And I think those are the two main components.
21:08Then comes into solution.
21:10Because whatever it is, I feel like for most a lot of people who are in the stage of stress
21:15before they reach burnout or if they are burnout, they just want someone to listen.
21:19They know the solution.
21:21Most of the time, most of us know the solution.
21:23But we just want to be heard.
21:25And then from the family, friends, and everything, when we provide this kind of safe zone, obviously, the other support
21:34has to come from all angles.
21:36So that means from friends, the society, university, from family.
21:41They have to be validating.
21:43They have to be supportive about it.
21:44Because if they're not going to break that cycle, we all know that the previous generation has this cycle.
21:51We all have this trauma cycle going on from generation to generation.
21:55It's our initiative to mend that, break that cycle, so that this safe zone can actually be something that is
22:04efficient for not just the students, but also for everyone else.
22:07And I think with Hoodle trying to ignite passions within students with regards to how they can access brands more
22:18and more effectively, how they can make maybe side income, but a bit less stressed, a bit less not too
22:25fixated on the anxieties of making money.
22:28And at the same time, the safe spaces that you talk about, you know, people you can talk to, people
22:33you can, you know, share your struggles with.
22:37I think this overall can help at least 10% of what you said just now.
22:42You're not completely changed.
22:43You don't have to switch.
22:44Yeah, completely say tomorrow there's no burnout, tomorrow, you know, youth would thrive.
22:49But little by little, step by step, I think you can create a more thriving university life for students, right?
22:56Yeah.
22:57Right.
22:57So I guess that wraps up our conversation.
23:00But before that, I want to ask one last question to both of you.
23:04If there's one thing that must change so young people can thrive, one thing, instead of just cope, right?
23:10What would it be?
23:14So we feel that for way too long, the society asked youth, what can they achieve?
23:23What are they going to be in the future?
23:26And how are they going to change the world?
23:30So, but that one thing I feel that we actually need to stop and listen.
23:36So, and when we say we stop and listen, it's not just listen to bring in a solution, but listen
23:44to co-create with them.
23:45So understand.
23:47And if the solution is for them, then why not work with them?
23:51Right.
23:52So that is what I feel that one thing that needs to change.
23:57Right.
23:57So making sure that youths are engaged properly.
24:01Yep.
24:01And not just like, you know, through one of things, probably like CSR or whatever.
24:06So making sure that, you know, youth participation is there, voices heard.
24:11What about you, Akilah?
24:12For me, I'm going to move on with technical aspects since Erica changed approach from a social aspect.
24:18From the technical aspect, I think Malaysia could go on with a more concrete social engineering.
24:24That means that we, the current system, it allows people to work, but we're working or like we're thriving in
24:32it just for the sake of survival.
24:35Like we were, we were being, we have been discussing regarding on how ambition is no longer there when we're
24:40working in the future.
24:41So if we could rebuild and reconstruct the social engineering to allow a system that creates more ambition for people,
24:51opportunity for ambition rather than just for survival,
24:54I think it's going to reduce the amount of stress, the amount of burnout that's going to occur between the
25:01future generation and the current generation as well.
25:03Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's true.
25:06I feel like all parties, be it universities, government, even NGOs, or probably students themselves, you know, need to sort
25:12of take a step back.
25:13Yeah.
25:14Because we tend to get caught up with life a lot, you know, day to day.
25:19We tend to get in our heads, trying to get ahead.
25:22But I think if we take a step back and really look at what youths really need to thrive, you
25:28know, what's lacking.
25:29Like, for example, like you said, mental health awareness is there, but how do we, how are youths utilizing it?
25:35That's the gap, right?
25:36So making sure that the engineering part of it to ensure we have comprehensive solutions are there.
25:44A little bit of thought, a little bit of care.
25:46Yeah, like it's important to actually for us to bridge that healthy relationship between a person and the rest of
25:53the system that's around them.
25:54And really a generation, the difference between a generation without hope is a generation that's going to build our nation.
26:02Yeah.
26:03So it's time to have that collaboration between the entire ecosystem and not just looking at youth as, oh, oh,
26:15they're going through this.
26:16Oh, they're there.
26:17So we're always looking at them from the outside of the glass.
26:20Right.
26:20Yeah.
26:21Right.
26:21I think that's a nice way to end it.
26:24Thank you so much, Erica and Akilah for shedding light on this issue.
26:29I feel that this is a common issue that is sadly not being talked about as much, you know, the
26:35struggles of youths today.
26:37And I do hope that this gets a lot more attention and that HODL are able to engage more students
26:42in the future, hopefully.
26:44Hopefully.
26:44Right.
26:45I think that's all our time.
26:46Thank you so much to all the people at home joining us.
26:49I'm Fana Shea.
26:51See you next time.
26:58See you next time.
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