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00:00Welcome back to another edition of New York God Game.
00:03It's Dexter Henry, and I'm joined by one of New York sports writing legends.
00:07It is a longtime columnist for the New York Post Sports, my guy Mike Ficaro.
00:11And Mike is here with me today because Mike wrote a column that I found very fascinating.
00:16I thoroughly enjoyed, but some people did not.
00:18Some people found it very interesting, or they disagreed, I will say.
00:23Mike, before we get into that column, how are you doing?
00:26I'm doing good, Dex. How are you doing?
00:28I'm doing well, man. Can't complain.
00:30How's your wheel doing?
00:32Getting better day by day, getting stronger.
00:34Eight weeks post-surgery today, and I'm getting stronger.
00:37Being able to walk a little bit.
00:39We can always talk about the joys of being able to walk.
00:42I don't have to tell you about that.
00:44You know about having a time.
00:46We can have quite a foot race.
00:48Yeah, it's quite a privilege that we take for granted.
00:51And I feel like that's a lesson I've learned through this rehab.
00:56So it's going well, though. I can't complain.
00:57I'm breathing. I'm healthy. Can't complain.
01:00Good to hear.
01:00So he wrote this column about Jalen Brunson, and you compared him, not directly, but compared him to Derry Jeter,
01:10who is one of the great legends in New York Post.
01:13Not New York Post, New York sports history.
01:17So in this column, you wrote that Jalen Brunson has become the, quote, basketball Jeter.
01:24I don't want to put words in your mouth.
01:25What did you exactly mean by that?
01:27Can you explain that?
01:28Well, I mean, I think you go down the line.
01:29I mean, they've got incredible similarities.
01:32I mean, look at the top.
01:33The one thing that Brunson hasn't done that Jeter had done by this time in his career and this time
01:38in his age is win a couple of championships.
01:40So if you want to just base this based on team success, of course, then you're just not going to
01:46buy what follows.
01:47But just as players and what they mean to their teams, I think it's kind of an extraordinary comparison.
01:52I think they're almost identical in a lot of ways.
01:54I mean, they maintain excellence from the regular season.
01:58They neither do as well or better in the postseason.
02:00They both do.
02:01They both have a clutch gene.
02:03That means that when Jeter would, you know, teams used to fear whenever Jeter was, or his spot in the
02:07order was coming up late in game.
02:09Same as when Brunson has the ball in his hands late in the game.
02:12They don't always come through, but they come through a large percent of the time.
02:16Look, there's a lot of people, a lot of detractors who think that, for both of them, they think that
02:20they were both products of New York.
02:21So I'm still getting emails that Derek Jeter was the most overrated player in the world because he was propped
02:26up by New York, which I think is crazy.
02:28But whatever, that's what people feel.
02:30And certainly there's that way about people, you know, feel that way about Jalen Brunson.
02:33They like to point out the defensive shortcomings.
02:36I mean, the last 10 years of his career, Jeter was considered a subpar shortstop by both eye test and
02:41metrics.
02:42And, of course, Brunson's got his issues.
02:43But, of course, both guys would always make the play when you needed to make the play.
02:47So up and down the line, I mean, neither one of them is ever going to win – Jeter never
02:51won an MVP.
02:52And I don't think Brunson's ever going to win one.
02:54Not in the world where we have Victor Wambayama in the same league.
02:58So, I mean, look, I mean, I just – but there's no question that they embody the value part of
03:04that term as much as anybody else in their sports.
03:07So, to me, up and down the line, I think it's an obvious comparison.
03:11And it's meant to glorify both players and disrespect neither.
03:18And, of course, if you want to read into that, that's their choice.
03:21But, to me, I mean, it just tells you just how – I mean, by the way, they're both fairly
03:28regular-looking guys in times when, you know, in junior's time,
03:31the shortstops became a lot bigger.
03:33A-Rod, no more Garciapara.
03:36And in Jalen's case, I mean, the point guards that he's contemporaries with, Cade Cunningham and Tyrese Halliburton,
03:41they're both much bigger than him.
03:42So, they're both physical outliers also.
03:45So, really, from all the way down the line, to me, I mean, I think the comparison is kind of
03:50obvious, actually.
03:51Yeah, I think your comparison is spot on because when you talk about the things you talked about, right,
03:58talking about clutch performance, we're talking about leadership style,
04:00which I think is one of the huge connections between both of them.
04:04Handling the pressure of New York, that's another thing.
04:07So, when people say it's New York made, it's like, no, you have to handle the pressure here.
04:11Right.
04:11And then the other thing I would also even add is, right, both guys, at least – maybe it's a
04:18little early for Brunson,
04:18but they feel like there's something even bigger with them culturally in terms of what they need to New York
04:25sports, right?
04:25Right.
04:26I mean, look, I mean, you had entire generations of baseball players who do this whenever they were coming to
04:31play.
04:31They were number two.
04:32And it's the same thing with kids who play basketball now, but they do all of Brunson's mannerisms.
04:38A lot of them are wearing number 11.
04:39That's not a coincidence.
04:40I mean, you're right.
04:42The impact goes beyond the ballpark or the arena to where, really, you can see it every playground you go
04:48to
04:48in the same way you can see it in every little league field or every high school field you went
04:52to, you know,
04:53in the 90s and the early aughts when Jeter's influence was at its peak.
04:57So, I agree with you on that for sure.
04:59Yeah.
05:00Yeah.
05:00I think you have to look at influence in this, too.
05:02So, let me ask you this, Mike, because, you know, I saw some on social media.
05:06I had some people – I'm not going to mention names, some people I work with.
05:08They were a little triggered or defensive about the comparison.
05:13Do you think this is the defensiveness maybe from Yankee fans here is that Knicks fans are all
05:18important in this, too.
05:19Maybe they're more protective of their legends depending on the era, the championship expectations.
05:24Do you think fans are just protective of their legends?
05:27Do you understand why Yankee fans might be defensive about your comparison of Jeter and Brunson?
05:32I guess.
05:33I mean, to me, if I was a Yankee fan, I'd be delighted that a guy who retired almost 15
05:36years ago
05:37is a guy who's a subject of a basketball column.
05:39I mean, that tells you a lot about the impact that Jeter had.
05:42Yeah.
05:43And, look, I mean, early on in the column and early on with you just here, I said, look,
05:46if you're strictly going to go by team championships, then I guess we can stop the conversation now.
05:50That's fine.
05:50You know, unless that's how you choose to look at it.
05:52Of course, you know, the fact is that Brunson hasn't won a championship yet.
05:55And that's – you know, I suppose that that's fair in the same way that you're going to deduct
06:00points from Ted Williams that they only played in one World Series if you're going to compare
06:04him against the contemporaries of his day, including Joe DiMaggio.
06:06But, you know, to me, it's just – it's the manner in which they play, the leadership
06:11they show, the excellence that they show, specifically during postseason.
06:15That, to me, it's just – it's almost uncanny.
06:19And I'll be honest with you.
06:21I've heard from a bunch of Knicks fans who don't like that Brunson's being compared to
06:23Jeter either.
06:24So, you can't really – you go into this kind of thing understanding that you're not going
06:28to make a lot of – everybody happy.
06:30You maybe won't let anybody happy.
06:31But, you know, it's just – it's food for thought.
06:34And, you know, in my mind, in my tortured little sports mind, to me, they're one of the same.
06:39You know?
06:40People like to compare Brunson and Aaron Judge.
06:43To me, there's no comparison there.
06:44I agree.
06:44I agree on that.
06:45I agree.
06:47Though that one was brought up to me too.
06:50I understand that some of the Knicks fans may not like it or they don't want to hear it
06:55on that.
06:55But, yeah, I think it's a fine comparison.
06:59Totally.
06:59I really do.
07:00The one thing that I will say, because I think what you're talking about too, Mike, is everything
07:06that you're saying in your column.
07:07And I also want to be clear.
07:08You also made it clear in your column you thought Brunson is there, but he still has
07:13to win.
07:13Like, that was a point that was made as well too, that Brunson –
07:15Well, if you want to make the comparison complete, of course, you know, the thing that people
07:20credit due to for, and rightly so, is that he was an integral part of five champions.
07:26So, you know, and maybe if John Gillen only wins one, you'll still hold that against him
07:29because it'll be five to one.
07:32But to me, you know, yeah, if that's the only thing that you're going to have a sports
07:36argument about, kind of like people who like to argue LeBron against Michael Jordan,
07:40right?
07:41Okay, well, if he was going to be just on championships, then just cancel the fight
07:46because there's no debate.
07:48Michael has more, so therefore he wins.
07:50But, you know, to me, if you're going to have a little more layers to the argument and a
07:54few more chapters to talk about, that's why that kind of a debate is interesting.
07:58I mean, no matter what side of the coin that you fall on.
08:01So, but I get it.
08:03I mean, some people are just like, it's championship for nothing.
08:05And so, you know, in that case, okay, then we'll use those parameters next time we have
08:12the argument.
08:12But if you're willing to just look at themselves as players, independent of the successes their
08:17teams had, to me, that's where I think the, you know, the comparison becomes pretty fascinating.
08:22Yeah, I agree.
08:23And I think we can have these conversations with just a little bit more nuanced than it
08:26just being rings culture, right?
08:28And just about championships.
08:30I think we can have that.
08:31So one of the other things that I thought about reading your column, Mike, is what you
08:37think about Jeter and, you know, I was fortunate to be around Jeter a little bit in the late
08:41part of his career, but he had that sort of aura, captain aura when he walked into a room
08:46and somebody who's covered the Knicks a lot more closely.
08:48I do feel like Brunson has some of that.
08:52Do you feel the same way that he carries that same energy for the Knicks that Jeter did?
08:56No question.
08:57I mean, he's a guy who takes his captaincy very seriously the way that Jeter did.
09:02For the most part, they both like to do their best work behind closed doors.
09:06Now, I mean, the other day we saw Brunson kind of excoriate his team on the bench, you know,
09:12yelling at them and saying, we got to play better.
09:14And he got a lot of credit for that, as well he should.
09:17You know, you were probably never going to see Jeter do that.
09:20He was never going to be public about it at all.
09:22So there are differences.
09:23But for sure, I think they both took their roles within the framework of what their teams
09:29wanted to do very seriously and took their captaincy very seriously.
09:33I mean, it was something that wasn't just a letter on the chest.
09:36It was a reputation and a reliability in the locker room that I think they took very, very seriously.
09:44Yeah, he absolutely did.
09:45And I do agree.
09:46Brunson takes it seriously.
09:46How much for Brunson right now is the Jeter-like quality of Jeter made the big moment.
09:54I'll say he mastered this.
09:55He made the big moment feel normal.
09:57There are tons of iconic clutch plays and you just were like, oh yeah, that's some Jeter stuff.
10:02That's what Jeter does.
10:03How much of Brunson's greatness right now is what we saw in game one the other night, right?
10:07Where he kind of has that calm under chaos.
10:11Yes, we saw him get fired up with his team in the huddle.
10:13But at the same time, when he was on the court, he walked hard and down and just took over
10:18the game.
10:18And he did not look bothered by this at all.
10:21And we've seen it time and again.
10:22I mean, we saw the game when he shot against the Pistons last year where, I mean, it was just,
10:27it was his world.
10:28And even a great player like Thompson who was guarding him, you know, just was a small part of it.
10:33You know, it didn't matter that that's one of the best defenders in the league.
10:37I mean, you know, Jalen got a shot.
10:38Jalen made a shot.
10:39That's what Jalen does.
10:41And we've seen that now.
10:42I mean, he had just a tour de force against the Sixers a couple of years ago, including a 47
10:47-pointer.
10:49And just, you know, look, I mean, again, neither one of these guys is perfect.
10:52You know, Jeter went 0-4 a couple of times in the postseason.
10:55I know that the people who worship him don't want to be reminded of that, but none of those facts.
11:00And look, you know, I mean, Brunson has had terrible postseason games.
11:04I mean, he was terrible on Tuesday in the first three quarters.
11:07Guess what?
11:08He wasn't in the fourth and he wasn't in overtime.
11:10And to me, you know, that's the thing to me.
11:11You know, and I get it.
11:13Jeter gets a lot of love for the footplay and all these things.
11:15Like you said, we're kind of, you know, diving in the stands.
11:17You know, who else does that for the guy like him?
11:20Absolutely well-deserved.
11:21But to me, I mean, to me, the signature moment of his time with the Yankees.
11:25I mean, that's the Yankees World Series.
11:26And all that matters and all that means, the Yankees just lost game three.
11:30And the very first pitch he sees, he makes disappear.
11:34That's what leaders do in movies.
11:36And, you know, like Joe Girardi famously said later on, Jeter's life is a movie.
11:41That's what he does.
11:42You know?
11:43Now, it wasn't a swing that won the World Series.
11:46It just altered the World Series.
11:48It changed the series, yes.
11:49It made it possible for the Yankees to win.
11:53Same as the flip play.
11:55Flip play didn't win that series against the A's.
11:57It put them in position to advance.
11:59And he did that time and again in his career.
12:00And I think that's what you're seeing, the collection of Brunson moments, you know,
12:05that we're going back to time and time again now.
12:07I'm glad you said that.
12:08And I think this will be a good place to close on because Jeter's legacy absolutely
12:12was built, Mike, on postseason moments.
12:15So, if Brunson leads the Knicks to the NBA Finals, does the basketball Jeter label that
12:22you've kind of brought up here, right, that comparison, some people are going to say,
12:27oh, Mike's doing a hot take here.
12:28Does it go from hot take, which you're not.
12:30You're not a hot take guy.
12:32Does it go from hot take to undeniable where nobody can argue this?
12:36And what do you think?
12:37Is it getting a ring that would actually make this comparison complete?
12:41I mean, I think getting to the finals, the people who already agree with the premise
12:44are going to agree with it more.
12:46But those who disagree are going to say, all right, well, OK, now win the four more games
12:49you need to get to the title.
12:50And again, if that's going to be the premise that you're going to choose to fly this ball,
12:55then you should, because you should be consistent about it.
12:57And if it doesn't matter to you what a guy does if he doesn't win a championship, then
13:00that should be your argument, whether he's won one or not.
13:03So, I understand that.
13:05And look, I mean, it's sports, man.
13:08I mean, I always go back to this.
13:10It's like, you know, we're not solving any of the importance of this argument.
13:12We're just seeing some observations.
13:15I mean, I literally covered every year of Darren Jeter's career.
13:17I've so far covered every important moment of Jalen Brunson's time with the Knicks.
13:21So, I mean, I feel like I do have some kind of institutional knowledge of what I've seen
13:25between the two.
13:26I mean, this doesn't make it right.
13:28It doesn't mean that I'm the source on all things Jeter slash Brunson.
13:32But, I mean, I do think that if you've seen enough of them, and I certainly saw a lot
13:36of them both, to me, I think that the comparison is right there.
13:40And, you know, other than the fact there's no World Series, and there's no NBA championship
13:44there for Brunson, I mean, I think the comparison is almost alarmingly, eerily close.
13:51I really do, between the two players.
13:52I don't agree with you.
13:54I don't disagree with you at all whatsoever.
13:55How are you feeling about this Knicks team where they're three wins away from the NBA
14:00Finals, and do you think they have what it takes to win it all?
14:03Look, I think they have a great chance to advance in this series, for sure.
14:07I mean, I picked them in six.
14:08I mean, if they can win tonight, and if they can win, more to the point, if they can win
14:12tonight, and the result of that is clearly the result of the Cavs being shaken up by what
14:16happened to them in game one, I think it's probably going to be a quick series.
14:19I think Cleveland might take one in Cleveland, but we'll see.
14:22I think it's fascinating to see this war in the other series, because every game, I think
14:29another guy's going down.
14:30Every day, on both sides, you know?
14:33I mean, now Jalen Williams is facing another hammy problem.
14:36They lost Harper yesterday.
14:37The Spurs did.
14:38You know, it's not going to get any friendlier in that series, you know, especially as long
14:41as Isaiah Hartenstein's out there throwing elbows, and when Brian is out there throwing
14:45his elbows, I mean, there's going to be more blood and more guts on the floor.
14:49I'm not certainly ready for anybody to get hurt.
14:51I think that would be awful.
14:52But, I mean, there's a reality of things, right?
14:54And if these teams beat each other up over seven games to where they're not only exhausted
14:59coming into the next round, whoever survives it, but are missing a couple of key elements,
15:05then whoever comes out of this series is going to be, you know, it's going to have more of
15:09an advantage than we think they do now.
15:10Look, I mean, I don't think there's any question that the Western representative is going to
15:14be the favorite over the Eastern representative.
15:16I mean, and I think for the Knicks, same thing.
15:18You worry about your own business, and you'll worry about how to figure out how to beat the
15:22next team in the next round when that happens, you know what I mean?
15:24I know the easy thing to say, well, they beat the Spurs twice, they didn't beat the Thunder,
15:28but to me, that's all stuff in the regular season, which is a whole different season.
15:32So you worry about that when you get there, and it's a wonderful problem to have.
15:36You have to figure out, oh my God, how are we going to beat the Thunder?
15:39Because that means that the Thunder and the Knicks are both in the finals, and you worry
15:42about it then.
15:43For now, you just worry about the Knicks and the Cavs.
15:45Look, I think they're in good shape.
15:46I mean, I thought all along the Cavs were going to have a puncher's chance because they
15:52can shoot so well.
15:53We saw that in game one.
15:55Yep.
15:55And look, if game one was the example of that, they're going to not shoot as well as they
15:59did in the second half of game one.
16:01I think it'll be interesting.
16:02I mean, look, I don't think Cat's going to play as bad as he played again, as he played
16:06in game one.
16:07I think O.G.
16:08Adenomi is going to be more comfortable as he gets back into his rhythm.
16:11I agree.
16:11I don't think Josh Hart can play as poorly as he played in game one.
16:14And I don't think the Knicks, you know, I think the Knicks are going to change the
16:17way they approach both sides of the floor.
16:19I mean, I know they're talking about still in Cat and Rome at the top of the key, but
16:22I mean, obviously they're going to want to get in pick and roll options with as long
16:26as Harden's on the floor.
16:28And on the other side, I think they're going to trust more a guy like Lambie Shaman, if
16:32he's in, or Bridges for most of the game, to figure out that they can figure out Harden
16:37on his own so you don't have to leave as many wide open threes as they did the other
16:41night.
16:41Because that almost wound up biting them in a bad way in the second half.
16:45Yeah.
16:45I thought that I liked their adjustments with the defense late.
16:47I thought they put two on the ball too much early and hopefully too much.
16:51Yeah.
16:51We'll see if that's a adjustment that they make in game two, but good discussion, my
16:56friend.
16:57That is the great Mike Vical.
16:58Check out his column.
16:59Let us know.
17:00Do you agree or not?
17:01Should Brunson and G to be compared either way?
17:03It's a fantastic read.
17:05I think everybody should read it.
17:06Mike, thanks for joining me on New York.
17:07I appreciate you, man.
17:08Thanks.
17:09Thanks for good talking to you.
17:09See you soon.
17:10See you soon.
17:11Bye.
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