- 16 hours ago
The episode of The Point focusses on the death of a 33-year-old woman, Twisha Sharma, in Madhya Pradesh following alleged dowry harassment and other dowry deaths.
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00:01We killed Tuisha
00:08The brutal truth that killed her
00:17Her gender was the problem
00:21A country obsessed with sons
00:28will always fail its daughters
00:31In India, sons define social hierarchy
00:36Male child mania, women always collateral
00:44A generational problem India refuses to address
00:49In India, women always reduced to a charity case
00:58We can debate, we can pontificate
01:06But we all know who did it
01:09We killed Tuisha
01:15And that's the focus of our debate on To The Point this evening
01:19I'm Preeti Chaudhary
01:20Before we get to it, allow me to take you through the headlines
01:26Prime Minister Modi and Italian Prime Minister Meloni
01:29Hold bilateral meet in Rome
01:30India and Italy agree to elevate ties to strategic partnerships
01:34Prime Minister Modi gets Melody chocolates to Meloni
01:40Prime Minister Modi brought us a gift
01:43A very, very good toffee
01:46Meloni
01:54A political war breaks out over the Melody movement
01:57LOP Rahul Gandhi says
01:59Prime Minister handing out candies amidst economic storm
02:09Prime Minister Modi
02:10Prime Minister Modi may meet Trump
02:11At G7 summit amidst the war
02:13Trump to attend G7 summit
02:15Modi invited to
02:16Key meet may happen
02:17For the first time amidst the West Asia crisis
02:20G7 summit in France
02:21From June 15th to the 17th
02:30Thwisha's family meets MP Chief Minister Mohan Yadav
02:33Sources say the MP government will write to CBI
02:36To launch an investigation into the matter
02:44Big scoop on Vijay cabinet expansion
02:46Tamil Nadu Chief Minister open for power sharing
02:49Invites VCK Congress IUML to join cabinet
02:52No invite yet to rebel AIDMK MLA's
02:56To join the cabinet
03:01Union Education Minister Darmendra Pradhan
03:04Holds high-level security meeting
03:06On re-neet and orders crackdown on fake telegram channels
03:11Social media platforms asked to detect and block misinformation networks
03:32All right, let's get you up to speed with the latest news break coming in
03:35The Bhopal court has rejected the demand for Thwisha's second post-mortem
03:39Remember, the parents had asked for a second post-mortem
03:42Because they thought there was bungling in the first one
03:45As for the question of issuing directions to prevent the body from decomposing
03:49Is concerned the applicant in the original application has requested that directions should be issued to the concerned authorities to
03:56preserve the body
03:57A letter will be issued to Bhopal police directing them to immediately obtain written information from medical institutions as to
04:05whether low-temperature preservation facility is available in other medical institutions of Madhya Pradesh
04:11All of this in light of the parents refusing to cremate the remains of Disha, the mortal remains of Disha
04:19as they want justice first delivered to them
04:23For now, Disha's husband who is an accused as per the parents is on the run
04:28And there has been no arrest of the mother-in-law as well
04:32Having said that, the demand for a second post-mortem by the parents has been ruled out
04:41But our application allowed is partially allowed
04:45Our application allowed by the itch
04:48You are the under control of the attention to the Alchemist
04:50Through the body itself, the body was preserved
04:53Minus eighty degree
04:54Which is in the position of the body may change the body
04:57That would be necessary to preserve the second post-mortem
04:57In the position of the body, the body was preserved
04:59The way to trust the body itself
05:02Second post-mortem was claimed to us the court
05:34let's cut across to my colleague ravish pal singh who's joining us for the latest on this ravish the
05:39second postmortem has been ruled out right now by the court the parents still refusing to conduct
05:45the final rights or cremate the mortal remains of twisha primarily because they feel they want
05:51justice first what's the latest they get pretty abhi to uh judgment aya hi hai thodi der pehle hi
06:00to abhi padibail se philal baat nahi ho pae hai lekin jaseki lawyer batar hain abu family
06:05se wuh milenge aur joh court ne order diya hai usse family ko bataya jae ga kyunki court ne saaf
06:09torpe keh diya ki aap ki joh application di li ames me postmortem karwane ki second postmortem
06:15karwane ki wuh puri rikis se aaj yaha reject kar di gai hai ab family is peh kya action
06:18leeti hai kya family abh isse final judgment maan karke kya body leleti hai aur cremate
06:24karne ke lili li jaati hai ya abh family abh yaasse higher court ki taraf ja sakti hai ya
06:28dekhane wali baat hogi filhal isse peh abh nazer hai jayse hi ah yaasse hum niklengue
06:32to abh košish hogi ki family se bhi eakbar baat ki jaye aur yye pata karne ki košish
06:35karayi ki abh court kefeslele peh unka kya kehna hai lelikin court ne doh
06:38chiseki hai pahela second postmortem joh dillie ames peh hoona tha joh family
06:42demand karrii thi usse reject kar diya gaya is application ko disallow kar diya
06:45aaj dousra joh police ne aaj family ko letter likha hai jis peh
06:48ye kaha gaya hai ki ames bhopal me minus 4 degree se zahada ki facility
06:53nahi hai body ko preserve karne ke liye toh joh minus 80 ka temperature decide
06:57kiya hai ames ne ya other medical institutes ne body ko preserve karna
07:02agar toh wo application zahur yaha peh allow ki hai quote te
07:06aur local essay chukai yani katara hills essay chukai directions diya hai ki woh
07:10košish karayi ki jahada se jahada temperature joh wo decrease me rakhne ki
07:15jugaar ho or other medical institutes se bhi police baat karayi badh pradesh ke
07:19aur unse puchhe ki unke yaa kitne deep temperature mein le jani ki facilities
07:23hai taakke wahan peh jo body hai usse preserve ki jasakke toh ye manna
07:28jasakta hai ki abhi bhi yeh pench jo hai wo puri terke se sulja nahi hai ki
07:32tusha ka second postpartum ab hooga ya nahi hooga
07:36ravish bhot shukriya kea ap hamse jure my colleague ravish getting us up to speed with
07:40the latest developments the parents have dug in their heels they do not want to
07:43conduct the final rights of their daughter tusha because they feel that if they do so
07:49then justice will not be delivered till now tusha's husband is on the run clearly
07:54and the mother-in-law is not yet arrested she's already applied uh for bail uh we're
08:00going to continue getting uh our viewers uh the latest on that but viewers tusha's death has
08:06triggered massive outrage across the country more disturbing reality is that she's not the only one
08:11in just five days four young women across india died amidst allegations of dowry harassment
08:16abuse cruelty and these four are not the only one because this is a trajectory that has been there
08:23for decades now and those are clearly not isolated cases they point to a much deeper social crisis one
08:29rooted in india's obsession with sons the devaluation of daughters and the normalization of violence
08:35against women 33 year old tusha sharma was found dead at her in-laws home in bhopal last week her
08:47family
08:47alleges dowry harassment investigation is underway but before the outrage of a tusha could settle more cases
08:55surfaced dipika dies by suicide in greater noida 21 year old bride found hanging in golia 24 year old ashwarya
09:04dies
09:05by suicide in belari karnataka families alleged dowry pressure cruelty abuse harassment the names change the
09:16cities change but the pattern remains chillingly familiar because these deaths are symptoms of something much
09:24larger a society that still places greater value on sons than daughters india's 2011 census recorded
09:33just 943 women for every thousand men a number that reflects decades of discrimination before a girl
09:43is even born the preference for sons shapes everyday life in india earlier this year in haryana a couple
09:51made headlines after having 11 children in 19th year all in the hope of finally having a boy a living
09:58example of how deeply the obsession with male heirs still runs that obsession does not remain inside homes
10:06it shapes society itself india reported more than 5700 dowry deaths in 2024 alone but the violence goes far
10:17beyond dowry more than 4.4 lakh crimes against women were recorded last year and the single biggest
10:27category was cruelty by husband or relatives accounting for over 27 percent of all cases not isolated crimes
10:36not exceptional horror stories but everyday violence woven into social attitudes that continue to treat
10:43women as lesser weaker and expendable the question is no longer whether india has a women's safety crisis
10:51the question is how long will society continue to treat women as secondary citizens bureau report india today
11:03all right let's cut across to our panelists joining me first is miss shobha day author columnist miss day
11:08thank you for taking the time out and joining us miss day you know um i think this is the
11:13third time
11:14i've had you on my show where we've debated exactly the same thing which is one woman who has been
11:19either
11:19killed or harassed where dowry is concerned one can debate pontificate uh you know till the cows come home
11:25but the answer is quite clear uh shobha day it's all of us who are culpable together it is our
11:30society which is
11:31generational in nature where we continue to actually um overlook what is the deepest malays in our
11:38society and that is everything is only built around having a male child there's a premium attached to
11:45a male child that same male child gives a family social hierarchy and all women fall collateral to it
11:55this is one of india's uh dirty secrets which is no longer a secret we are obsessed with the sun
12:02we
12:03are obsessed by producing an air and we are dowry obsessed this is the worst aspect of our society
12:12and something that is not going to go away no matter how many statistics we roll out
12:18no matter what the law says there is a deep deep malaise and there are a lot of d words
12:25which i
12:26want to share on your show today starting with daughter daughter which leads to dowry which can
12:34sometimes lead to death before that there can be depression there is also uh deceit uh there's also
12:42family debt so with all these d's what we are doing as a society is turning a blind eye because
12:50we don't
12:50wish to address this as a problem in the first place seven dowry deaths in a week i mean that
12:56is a
12:57statistic that should really chill our hearts what are we seeing instead what we are seeing is something
13:03even more disturbing here is the mother-in-law talking about her dying plants that the plants are going to
13:10die when the daughter-in-law has is already dead is she showing any remorse is there any sorrow no
13:19what
13:19she's doing is trying to protect her son who's on the run now this is a lady who is an
13:24educated woman
13:25there seems to be a history of something in that family because i believe the first daughter-in-law
13:30also was not in the best situation but what is happening today what she's trying to say
13:36is far worse she's trying to convert this poor dead girl into the vamp of the piece suddenly the girl
13:45is being described as a schizophrenic uh that she was a drug addict uh that she was not listening to
13:52the family members that she had a she had lifestyle choices that they did not approve of but what about
13:59the abortion what about those calls now while i'm talking about the mother-in-law let me also say
14:05this as a mother myself this is addressed to all the mothers all the fathers out there of young girls
14:12who are somehow brainwashed into believing that marriage is the end all and be all in our society
14:18it is not but if your daughter is married and if you do receive that call a distress call from
14:27a girl no
14:27matter what her circumstances do not dismiss it do not call it drama do not say oh beta it's okay
14:35ek do din aise sambalo ek hafta sambalo hum aake sab theek kar denge you have to adjust this is
14:43criminal
14:43they are equally culpable you have to assure your daughter forget assuring her that very minute you
14:51have to either get on to that next flight or get her on to that next flight because really there's
14:56a
14:57bomb that's ticking those minutes lost can cost your daughter her life which seems to be the case
15:03in what has happened in this very tragic case which is why we are all discussing it but mothers have
15:09to
15:09be involved in this fathers have to be involved in this sons have to be involved in this and educating
15:15all and not just a society at large but families maybe counseling that dowry is just simply not
15:22acceptable it's not on and no matter how much you try and hide it parents are in many ways
15:30responsible for not protecting their daughters sufficiently in this girl's case there were many
15:36calls now what should a mother do or a father do when they receive such a call or a brother
15:40who
15:41receives such a call first of all try and alert the neighbors try and alert the nearest cop station
15:46try and get through to the friends of that young girl try and get through to anyone who has access
15:54to
15:54her during that critical hour but we don't do it instead we we trot out homilies we tell her
16:03because the minute a daughter is born into the family she is told from the word go that your pariah
16:10done what's it what does that even mean it is so humiliating to think that she has to be passed
16:16on to
16:16the next family so this is a very impassioned plea and thank you for giving me this platform
16:22to tell all mothers do not call it drama do not call it being theatrical do not say you're trying
16:29to
16:29attend attract attention because these are very real problems and there are girls young brides dying
16:35every day in our country something we should be very very ashamed of you know um mr i tend to
16:41agree
16:41with you uh as well that yes the parents are equally culpable as tragic as this might be and today
16:47their
16:47hearts might be broken but uh they're equal party to the fate of their daughter today and with what has
16:52happened in the past i completely agree with you but when you look at the society that is what has
16:57been
16:57ingrained in them as well as a society generation after generation we have inculcated in them that
17:05daughters are second-rate citizens you have a son it's your passport to the good things it gives
17:09you social hierarchy immediately just by the virtue of the gender of their child and uh you know that
17:15sets the precedent of everything it's an investment they make in that son and then they expect returns
17:21later on that investment how does one and we know that you know we've discussed that as a country
17:26as a people how does one solve that issue why are we still a country obsessed with sons
17:35well we're not the only country i think a lot of asian countries are equally obsessed with their sons
17:40in an agricultural community societies way back then you needed sons on the farm i can even understand a
17:48bit of that son obsession then but today you're educating your daughters daughters have
17:53individuality often they have incomes of their own yet they're denied access to their own incomes
17:59but they're denied access to their own agency over their own lives which is even more pathetic this
18:05young girl if you want to make her a particularize one particular case look at her circumstances now the
18:13lady or the mother-in-law is trying to pass the buck on to her parents saying they pushed her
18:17into the
18:18glamour world because they wanted to live off her money now i'm wondering you're selling your own son
18:24to uh get a certain amount of money which they seem to have extracted from this girl's parents
18:30and you're talking about the girl being exploited by her parents it gets worse than that i'm sorry to
18:36bring in uh dating apps as well into the conversation but we need to talk about them this is something
18:41comparatively new in india as a phenomenon and they used to be matchmakers in the old days
18:46well both both haven't really succeeded in in protecting our daughters but dating apps as
18:53this young lady seems to have met this person on are getting to a stage where parents need to be
18:59extremely cautious it's not about getting rid of a girl because she's past 30 so okay dating app
19:06meet your match and let's get on with it it cannot be that you do this without a due diligence
19:13without
19:13any kind of cross-checking of the man's antecedents because he happens to be a lawyer his mother happens
19:20to be a district judge i'm asking you what kind of judgments has she given in the past she is
19:26retired
19:26why don't you open up some of those and see if this is her attitude to a dead girl what
19:31must she have done
19:32in the past with maybe other people in equally sort of tragic circumstances who've come to her expecting
19:38justice so it as a society it's a sickness and it is something our young girls are aware of how
19:46do they
19:46fight their parents where do they go they want the reassurance from their parents if things don't work
19:52out they still have a home to go back to that the parents are not going to abandon them most
19:57parents fail
19:58that duty i have to say this and that is one of the biggest reasons why the in-laws get
20:05away with what
20:05they do a it's hard to prove a dowry death there are no witnesses most of the time and the
20:11police
20:12are often hand in glove with the victim and the victim's family they're either paid off or they
20:17just don't want to bother because even the cops are men most of the time and they are like people
20:23like us they aren't aliens they also believe that in some way it's got to be the girl's fault she
20:29didn't
20:29bring in enough money or she could not produce a male heir or she was not playing ball with the
20:34family
20:34this is the truth about our society an ugly hideous truth the ugly hideous truth and and you're bang on
20:41and thank you miss day for joining us and verbalizing it and saying it for what it is because ultimately
20:46if somebody is that who has killed twisha it's us it's all of us collectively and uh it's something
20:53that we have done generationally with women and we continue to do so thank you miss day i'm joined right
20:57now by miss kiran bedi former ips uh miss dr bedi thank you for taking the time out this evening
21:03and
21:03joining us i've had you in my show multiple times dr bedi and you have strongly positioned yourself for
21:09someone where you say and i'm very very glad that you say that the parents are equally culpable they
21:14need to take equal responsibility of uh what has happened to their daughters but dr bedi in this society
21:22we live in many of these young girls are raised to believe like their parents that a girl after
21:28she's married doesn't have a second home all the cliches of pariah dhan come into question they are
21:33often financially completely dependent on the families that they're marrying into um even you know
21:39everything you reinforce it with that very statement that once a daughter leaves their house then there
21:45is no looking back there is no coming back so in such a system in such a society what do
21:51these women do
21:52what do these parents do
21:58that's our back to parents again see dot the in-laws are asking for a daughter-in-law daughter in
22:06by law
22:06but they're asking for a daughter-in-law they do have to they also waiting for their son to to
22:13be having
22:14a life partner but they do have to groom their boys differently they are grooming of boys differently
22:20their own mindset is very different our parents i think the girls are getting trapped in between
22:25they are neither on uh neither old times neither modern times nor in current times i think they're
22:33looking only for getting decked up one day one day and have a great ostentive are they looking only for
22:39how am i going to look the kind of ghagra i will wear how expensive would it be and that
22:44the whole
22:45society will look up to me and then a honeymoon what happens after i think we are it's all about
22:51parenting parenting of boys parenting of girls right look some of us who held our ground were
22:58parented differently we held our grounds and it's not that we did not have a marriage we had a marriage
23:04but we had a marriage on our terms we had a marriage but on our terms not give and take
23:10but
23:11on our terms and if it works it works it doesn't work it doesn't work so be it we are
23:15the ones who
23:16creates create new new channels in society so new channels in society have to be found channels need
23:22not be all about uh gold jewelry and property and consumerism it has to be partnership where we are all
23:30behind each other's growth so career oriented men and women and men who understand shared hopes
23:37men to groom up understand shared households share why not why only women run why not share houses
23:44and the in-laws if you have an extended family some feel so blessed to having extended family and
23:50somewhere the extended family is a is a is a problem so i think and i think in this case
23:56the police has a
23:56very important role i think where it's gone wrong is police should have intervened right away when the
24:01fir should be registered the way girls parents said register the fir as it is a case they suspect of
24:10murder register it as murder it's dowry register is down and then take up investigations start sending
24:17messages and notices to the victim's family and the accused accused family and start sending them like
24:25the cbi does start calling them for investigation recording their statements videographing them
24:29asking them what do you have in your defense and then come to a conclusion whether the case is made
24:35out or not why delay the fire why not call them send them notices and why should the man disappear
24:42why is the lawyer disappeared doesn't he know disappearance is going against him why has the judge not
24:48been called she too could have been her statement she's making public statements why should she not make
24:53the statement to the police so similarly victims are going to the media and having press conferences
24:59go and give the evidence of all trans all that happened in transactions of the weddings and the
25:05messages you receive to the police this is the job of the police to create a special team record
25:11statements of both victim and the accused and then come to a conclusion to do justice police investigation
25:19should lead to justice and justice can come without hearing both sides dr bedi i'm going to ask you
25:25the same question that i asked miss day as well uh because one can keep debating on what should be
25:31done
25:31can be done but we completely miss what the core problem really is and that is how we as a
25:37society which
25:38cuts class which cuts caste which cuts religion where a premium has been attached to having a male child so
25:45much
25:45so that everything revolves around the sun and he becomes the ultimate source of social status and
25:50hierarchy do you think that is why women become collateral in the system where some survive it
25:55many suffer through it and some lose their lives like tuisha
26:03yes this is exactly what it this is also the reason while we consider daughters as liabilities
26:09therefore we add property to it take away this liability with this property
26:13and the man is a bringer of property is a harbinger as as state is concerned this is where the
26:19parenting
26:20is going wrong why can't we groom a man to say earn and deserve to have a life partner you
26:27can't buy her
26:28buy her you will have to earn one and you have to meditate who teaches so therefore there is a
26:33price
26:34for the uh for the man that he's a bringer of property and the daughter she's a taking away of
26:41property
26:42that's why property rights were not there earlier now property rights opinion but it's not coming
26:46letter and spirit so the way we bring up our daughters out this is no more a shocker these
26:51are no more shockers and what are women doing they're committing suicides if they do or they're
26:56getting murdered in violence so that's why because it's a collapse of dreams the dreams which have been
27:02built of what what was in the wedding and what was expected and what happened in the honeymoon and
27:08thereafter and that they go to their parents now to somehow survive because they spent a bomb they
27:14spent a bomb on their weddings now they want to suffer so this is where the girl should be told
27:20on
27:20her marriage because let's understand the goal girl is a migrant every girl who marries into another home
27:28migrates from a parent's family to a male family to another home she does not know family she does
27:35not know suddenly she's asked to say this is where the fault is whereas when she leaves her home
27:47she could leave saying i'm on i'm leaving on probation if it works for the first three four
27:52months otherwise this home is mine also and parents should say better this is she may not choose to
28:02migrate i would probably be an advocate of six months trials six months you continue to live
28:08as together here with parents six months you try out with your in-laws try out the two and see
28:13what
28:14works i think the situations come where only one-sided migration is not fair for the girl let's have two
28:20sided migration you stay put let's work out six months you stay put and maybe we decide to have a
28:26home of our own we neither stay with my parents we neither stay with our father we stay on our
28:31own we
28:31create a home of our own maybe that stage will come so why not and meanwhile the social system could
28:37also create uh working hostels so that they can create short stay homes where they can make short
28:44stay homes where such women can live in good quality hostels and stay homes dr bedi thank you for saying
28:52this because you talk about a social system and the uh with what you've just advocated is going to shock
28:56that very social system that we've created over decades and generations and thank you for saying
29:02this with what you say it's high time that we start advocating living with the in-laws on either sides
29:07of
29:07the divide and how many of us who are actually listening to this broadcast women out there actually would
29:13want that but they cannot verbalize it thank you for verbalizing this for us thank you dr bedi for
29:18joining us i want to cut across right now to our panelists joining me this evening ria mukharji author
29:22activist tara deshpande author actor lalita kumara manglam former chairperson ncw puna mutreja executive
29:29director population foundation of india i'd like to begin with miss kumara manglam first miss kumara
29:35manglam with what you have seen as uh someone uh who has presided over many many cases when you were
29:42the
29:42chairperson of the ncw nothing much has changed has it in all these years no hardly anything has changed
29:49and i agree with both what subha they said and our top cop woman lady said that uh you know
29:57our families
29:58are often our biggest danger uh it's easy to blame the in-laws and after the poor child is gone
30:05as they
30:05say uh but our mental attitudes have not yet changed pretty let's remember that even in 2026
30:16we need women's reservation to get adequate representation not equal adequate representation
30:23for women in our legislatives and parliament in 2026 so where are we dreaming of equality with men
30:32in this case and i've said this about the case of a girl about a year and a half ago
30:37who died in
30:37coimbatore women's families just let them down it is today an accepted fact that the in-laws will
30:45ask for dowry this and that but truly you know what the penalty is 15 000 bucks our laws are
30:52also not
30:53adequate our police stations certainly aren't if kiran bedi could say that police stations need to be
30:59more responsible then they also must be held accountable we don't hold the system accountable
31:06at all really it's all just in words but where do we put it into action at which at which
31:15stage a
31:16girl is born most families are not very happy even if they're not disappointed there is i've hardly seen
31:23a jubilation in a family where a girl is born maybe there are changes in our daughter's daughters our
31:28granddaughter's lives but there are very few and far between a girl is born we regret having to spend
31:35money on her education we will spend crores on her wedding to somebody we've not really checked out too
31:40much found on the internet through some marriage broker whatever but we won't educate them we will not
31:46tell them that marriage is not the be-all and end-all of life we will not support them if
31:52they say that i
31:53want to get out of this marriage i want to get a divorce at every stage what a girl wants
31:58just
31:59basic dignity is not given to her and this is across the board it has nothing to do with money
32:05caste creed etc etc and nothing to do even with politics it's just across the board we still live
32:12in the dark ages when it comes to women and well this whole thing about property share in how many
32:20huf cases i mean if you really take uh if you get records and ask for them will you see
32:25that the
32:25girl has got a share of her huf property what is she always told aray it's vodo yaar problem
32:31adjust girl this word adjust yeah this word adjust is the killer why should we adjust and cutting across
32:40class we all know uh households where even though by law a woman can stay claim to property but she
32:47doesn't
32:47do so because it's it's not the norm it's not tradition i'm saying it in hindi because most of
32:53your audience may be from the north of india but you're doing fine it's okay does it is ever said
33:03to
33:03a man or i'll add another one as i bring in puna mutreja we gave you what we had to
33:08give you when
33:09you got married i want to bring in puna mutreja into this conversation puna mutreja would you want to go
33:13back and reflect because all of this puna mutreja mirrors our society mirrors in our sex ratio numbers
33:21from the word go
33:27yes absolutely sex ratios is a very good indicator that we not only have son preference in india but
33:35we have daughter aversion why would we kill our daughters before they are born or even after they
33:41are born and then later on we continue to kill them in the name of dowry and family discord and
33:48violence and so on i think that you know social norms not only have to change in terms of um
33:58the
33:59norms but also our actions you know dowry is illegal in india we have normalized it it's gone
34:07under it's like giving gifts i cannot understand why even families are willing to sell their daughters
34:16giving money why daughters i think we have to count on the young girls especially the strong young girls
34:23to take vows not to be married with dowry boys have to do the same but i want to say
34:31that
34:31that this case has shown us new lows you know if a woman is strong then she is seen as
34:42a threat by
34:43even the mother-in-law and in this case you had a happy strong happy go lucky ambitious capable young
34:52woman as we hear from all her friends and people who know her we do not tolerate strong women we
35:00don't we
35:00not only have a daughter version but strong women if you remember the four cases of live-in
35:06relationships where women were murdered three to four years ago and all of us were talking about it
35:12on the same shows every man had said oh the woman argued so i got angry so strong women we
35:20must recognize
35:21is also a problem not just a woman finally i am absolutely disgusted and disappointed and
35:30saddened uh in fact feel tortured that this woman is being deep this young girl is being demonized by her
35:39mother-in-law and whether it's the media or society is listening to her we should absolutely not be
35:47listening to her uh putting labels um demonizing her um uh no it's not just criticism it's just throwing
35:58anything at her dead body and even when she was alive so parents while everything i agree with with all
36:07the suggestions but we as a society have to buy card dowry it is unacceptable and second women should be
36:17empowered to take the empower women but we don't give them the um agency uh to take the step where
36:26they
36:27walk out of such households where they are tormented where they are whether it's the mother-in-law or the
36:34husband but exactly because we don't know agency we haven't seen our mothers have it we haven't seen
36:41our grandmothers have it so therefore what do they pass on because they don't possess it they were never
36:46entitled with it they were never given it in the first place i want to bring in tara deshpande and
36:50i want
36:50to bring in what uh you know uh i'm sure punam and everybody will agree we do not have public
36:55spaces
36:56that are safe for women or even spaces for women who are battered safe spaces you're right you know
37:03your your maternal home needs to be your safe space and you don't even have that i want to
37:08not there that's what i'm saying you have to take charge i want to bring in tara deshpande uh you
37:12know and then i'll cut across to ria charge now fair point fair point tara deshpande i want to take
37:17off from what miss kumara manglam was saying we're all ready to spend crores on our daughter's wedding
37:22crores but we won't spend that money for her education that's that's a no-go because in this
37:30country we think our daughter's education is a hobby you know uh we want them to become mbas so that
37:36it
37:36looks great on their marriage resumes but then uh no uh keeping a job get married have children cook
37:42clean and do your husband's bidding is the uh you know trajectory of your life and i i've been
37:49listening to everyone and and i think the system is going to be very difficult to change i don't
37:54think that we should wait for the boys to change i think it's the women who are going to get
37:59married
37:59in the future who need to change uh they need to see marriage without rose-tinted glasses and not buy
38:05into all the social media hype and the matchmakers and the uh you know uh the bridal um packages that
38:12are sold in the name of of weddings and all the movies that they watch uh marriage is difficult
38:18marriage is not easy and i think that women need to first establish themselves they need to have jobs
38:24they need to have an education they need to be protected before they get married uh you know i'm
38:31going to probably be criticized for this very badly but i really do agree with some of the past
38:35speakers that perhaps you know it goes against our culture but perhaps it's time now for women to have
38:41a a grace period before they marry where they actually live with their partner where they
38:45experience their in-laws so that they can really understand who these people are see within a short
38:51span of time between the engagement and the wedding and a couple of months into the honeymoon you really
38:55don't see people as they are people start to show themselves over a period of time and this is
39:01really important to understand but also understand they may appear to be wonderful when you get
39:06married they may not ask you for dowry but what's stopping them from then asking you to transfer all
39:11their property to the sun once the marriage has taken place so there has to be a proper entry into
39:16marriage and there has to be a path built in advance for a person to leave a marriage now in
39:21the united
39:21states you have things that are known as you know there are agreements that are signed before you
39:26get married which you know sort of draw out exactly how much property the woman gets what kind of
39:31protection she gets and the different scenarios we don't do this in india because in india we believe
39:37that marriage is a sacrament it is not a contract but maybe it's time for that to change because maybe
39:42we need that kind of protection for women before they enter a marriage and we need to make sure that
39:47before they enter everything is checked out i mean look at the amount of research you do before you
39:52buy something at a shop and you just go ahead within a couple of months and you marry somebody that
39:57you
39:57barely know you've done no research on the family you haven't checked them out i think that this is
40:02really very important to do super point tara and i want to bring in ria and i also want to
40:07once again
40:08go back to what dr beady says you know in indian society ria that sounds radical but that's where it
40:14all
40:14begins have a rotational basis three years if you have to stay with your in-laws three years with the
40:19uh with the husband's folks and then three years move it to the girls folks
40:27yeah absolutely i you know i've been listening to all of these great thoughts over here and i'm i'm
40:32so infuriated um just you know seeing this again and again and again but um i think it's time that
40:39we
40:40collectively also uh kind of de-center this idea of marriage uh because in india south asia specifically
40:48the way uh marriage is centered um as a life as as one of the main parts of life and
40:56its main
40:57fulfillment and its main end of you know just from a to b from one right when you're a child
41:02a girl is
41:03talked about in terms of well is that going to make her a good bride your skin color your hair
41:08how you're
41:09cooking how you're you know sitting um i i think we're completely brainwashed to be centering the
41:15institution of marriage by itself and it's really time that we have to look at the truth in terms of
41:22as a society and i'm talking i'm appealing to parents of younger women especially um but also
41:28if you're a young woman navigating this space that you have been brainwashed into a role that you're
41:33supposed to somehow fulfill to uh to exist and to be valid in your existence um and that part is
41:40the
41:40most infuriating part and i'm i would you know and i'm not trying to be incendiary here but i feel
41:45at
41:45this point in india uh for many many women marriage as an institution is it is becoming an institutional
41:52murder and and i'm saying murder physically yes through suicide through actual murders um through
41:58mental health through just completely ripping out the quality of life of so many women of so many
42:04women that could have so much potential in this country and create so many different things for us
42:10um uh and i think that's the part that really really uh frustrates me and saddens me the most
42:17you know i'd like to give all of you 30 seconds i wish we had more time but i want
42:20to go back to miss
42:20uh kumara manglam uh you know 30 seconds ma'am if you can encapsulate your thought because
42:25you know tvisha's dead but her story survives in the many who've endured and who possibly survived
42:32and we all know them some of us could be them yeah two things first that we need to stop
42:39telling
42:39our daughters that marriage is the be all and end all of life and accept it if they don't want
42:43to get
42:43married second always always listen to your daughter when she says that she is in trouble in anywhere
42:51whether it is in her in-laws house her workspace etc always give them that bandwidth and make sure
42:58that your home is where she can come back to if she needs any form of support can i i
43:04just want to
43:04bring in miss mutreja miss mutreja 30 seconds man encapsulate your thought on what would you'd like to say
43:12you know most important for society to not treat um a domestic violence and dowry harassment as a
43:22private matter it is a public issue and anybody whether it's staff in the house or relatives or friends
43:31who notice should break the culture of silence social tolerance and family um a pressure often
43:40enable abuse long before it takes for ages long before it is fatal right and we have to wherever we
43:49see a girl treating right being treated violently badly and her mental health is being impacted we need
43:57spaces we need uh help uh helplines for women knowing that it's such a big problem i'm going to
44:05come in because i want i want to get i i deeply apologize i'm interrupting you ma'am but 30
44:10seconds
44:10tara if i can come to you i wish we had no time but yeah thank you uh don't wait
44:16for men to change women
44:17must change get yourself an education be financially independent sign a prenup agreement understand your uh
44:24uh husband and his family really well whether this means living in for a period of time or having a
44:29long-distance relationship understand what you're getting into understand the way in and understand
44:34the way out realize marriage is not the be-all and end-all of life there is a lot of
44:38support for
44:39you if you decide not to get married or you decide to leave a bad marriage please change your mindset
44:44women don't wait for men to change thank you tara for saying it ria and young women if you are
44:52watching
44:52this please know there isn't there's another way shame has been created as this idea by society
44:58itself by your parents by your in-laws by your friends um and i want to promise you that if
45:03you
45:03try to get out if you try to ask for help wherever it is wherever you can there is a
45:10existence of you
45:11where you will not be defined by your marriage or how society has perceived that there is another
45:17possibility thank you i appreciate all four of you for joining us this evening it was a meaningful
45:22conversation i wish we could have uh uh you know done it for longer but i really appreciate that
45:27all four of you took the time out and joined us this evening because i'm not you know i don't
45:31believe
45:31that journalists should get into hot takes but sometimes you just need to and rarely do i personalize
45:36stories but sometimes one must because i come from privilege and let me use a cliche here i have agency
45:42i'm fortunate to have both privilege and agency so here goes i come from haryana i'm married to
45:49someone who hails from western uttar pradesh to say that either state ranks poorly on gender justice
45:54and dices would be rather polite version of the truth my husband and i are very fortunate still to
46:00have familial roots in our ancestral village and every time i visit whether it's my village or my
46:06husband's village the blessing is almost always the same dude on how puto follow back in the cities it
46:13translate loosely to may you be the mother of a hundred sons in the village it's always said
46:18literally in the city rarely said aloud but very precisely understood may you become the mother of
46:23sons because in this country even one son can dramatically elevate a family's social standing a son becomes
46:31status he becomes security he becomes social capital he is the lifelong investment expected to yield
46:37lifelong returns the one relationship through which hierarchy can be asserted just by the virtue of
46:44gender a son and so the logic becomes begins very very early if there are only two glasses of milk
46:51the
46:51son gets one not the daughter sometimes not even the mother if there is money for only one child's
46:56education it goes to the son even if the daughter is brighter more ambitious more capable investment
47:02after all is expected to bring returns and from there that logic flows into an entire ecosystem an
47:09ecosystem of dowry controlled dependence harassment silence what we often describe as tradition is in
47:16reality an economic and social structural built around the premium value assigned to what sons even when
47:24the son is getting married the privilege of that association is understood be so cute that the girl's family
47:30should naturally bear all expenses of the wedding the tragedy is not only that women are oppressed by
47:36it the tragedy is also that many women are compelled to uphold it because in deeply unequal systems
47:42like india survival itself becomes transactional so we can continue to pontificate on thwisha's death but
47:49we all know the one brutal truth that killed her we did it we killed thwisha the obsessive premium we
47:56attach to a male child the lifelong social privilege of a son has created collateral damage for every
48:02woman alive in india this desire clearly cuts across class caste religion all alike thwisha's dead but her
48:10story survives in the collective generational silence of women who endured yet survived women who in some
48:17form exists in each of our homes in each of our homes and we know them very often we are
48:23them thank you for
48:24watching
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