- 12 hours ago
Grant & Danny react to Ryen Russillo sitting down with Monumental Basketball President Michael Winger.
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00:00Let's get into what Michael Winger had to say on the Rossello podcast.
00:04This interview was awesome, by the way.
00:05It was so good.
00:06I don't often put over other interviews that you should listen to,
00:09but if you're a big Wizards fan, Winger was terrific,
00:12and I thought the questions from Rossello were good.
00:14So a lot I want to get into here, but why don't we start with
00:19Rossello's draft experience when he was in the room with Michael Winger.
00:24And he asked Winger about what was going on for him.
00:28Winger had not been in the room as an executive with the Wizards.
00:31Dawkins had done it previously, to no avail.
00:34So they sent the president, not the GM, Winger,
00:36to kind of get done what Dawkins couldn't, to win the lottery.
00:39And this was Winger on his experience inside the lottery drawing room
00:44as he found out the Wizards won the lotto and got 1-1.
00:48Once Byron started reading off the instructions,
00:50he asked everybody to take a seat, and he starts reading the instructions.
00:53Yeah, I had the bubble guts a little bit.
00:55I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm sitting here.
00:59And you have all of these, you have this giant worksheet of lottery ball odds
01:04in front of you.
01:05A thousand scenarios.
01:06Yeah, right, exactly.
01:07A thousand scenarios.
01:08We had the first 140 of them.
01:10And so I'm quickly trying to process in my head, okay,
01:13what numbers do I need to see come up first?
01:16And the inverse, what numbers, if I see them, are going to piss me off.
01:23And so first number was four.
01:26I thought, okay, that's a low number.
01:28I like low numbers.
01:29Second number was two.
01:31It's like, oh, I'll be damned.
01:32That's another low number.
01:34So this is good.
01:35And then when the one came up, I knew we had it because we had every one, two, four combination.
01:42And I was just sort of stunned for a minute.
01:44And I remember telling myself the entire time, whatever happens, just don't overreact.
01:53Don't overreact.
01:53If it doesn't go your way, don't overreact.
01:55If it goes your way, just don't overreact.
01:57But the gentleman sitting next to me from Indiana, Ted, he tapped me.
02:01And so he and I both knew that we'd gotten, not we, that the Wizards had gotten the pick.
02:06And then Byron called out the last number, 13.
02:10And I just, the first thing I thought to myself was,
02:14I just wish I could be around my group right now to celebrate this moment.
02:21There was no sweat because of the way the first three played out.
02:25Before the fourth number is even drawn, he's sitting there and he knows they won the lottery.
02:30Yeah, it's so eerily similar, but this time in a good way,
02:33to a couple years ago for the Wemby draft,
02:35where they had seven of the ten combinations based on the numbers that had come out.
02:39Now, this one was already locked in and it was done.
02:42You know, it's like your, bingo's not exactly the right term,
02:44but it's like on your daily, what do you call it, the 50-50 raffle,
02:48I got everything from 206 to 215 with my things.
02:52It doesn't matter what the last number is.
02:54If it's seven, eight, nine, ten, I got it.
02:56He knew on three and he's going, oh my God, we just won.
02:59I love his phrase though.
03:01I had the bubble guts in that moment.
03:03Relatable.
03:03He had to be super nervous.
03:04So did we.
03:05But here's something I didn't think about until I listened to him talk about this.
03:08So the way that this works is,
03:11they allow a very select number of media to chronicle everything inside.
03:16But everything's embargoed.
03:17There's no reporting.
03:19All cell phones get taken away.
03:20I mean, this is a very, very private room.
03:24And they then keep you in for about an hour, Danny.
03:27An hour.
03:28Yeah.
03:29After they do this drawing.
03:30So Winger finds out that the Wizards have the number one pick.
03:34He is not allowed to tell anyone.
03:36He can't call his wife.
03:38He can't talk to Ted Leonsis.
03:40Him and Will Dawkins have worked side-by-side,
03:43shoulder-to-shoulder for years for this day.
03:45You can't call him.
03:48And on top of that, think about finding this thing out.
03:51I think about in life the things I've been most excited about.
03:53Like when my wife and I found out we were pregnant.
03:57And you can't call your parents yet.
03:59Or you can't tell anyone for a couple of weeks.
04:02Now, I'm always the worst at that, by the way.
04:03Like everyone's going to know within hours.
04:05My wife just knows.
04:06Tell me when you want everyone to know.
04:08Yeah, whenever the news is finding it out.
04:10I'm not a good secret keeper in that regard.
04:12But you can't enjoy it with somebody else.
04:14That has to be the worst.
04:16This was winger on that.
04:17This idea of, it's the coolest thing in the world just happened to me.
04:20But now I've got to just wear this by myself for an hour.
04:24And then I don't even get to be there when everyone else finds out wherever they are.
04:27And they're going crazy because I'm still in the room at that point.
04:30It really is an absolute buzzkill to be in that room for the next hour.
04:36Not be able to call your owner.
04:38Not being able to call your wife.
04:40Like not be able to like, you can't celebrate with your players, your GM, like nobody.
04:44And so, and you don't get to, you don't get to escape fast enough to get to them during their
04:53moment of elation.
04:54And so you're sort of like rounding third when it was the home run that won it.
05:01And like everybody's already celebrating.
05:02It's like, you know, I sort of want to be in the pile too.
05:05And you just can't get to the pile fast enough.
05:08It's got to be a super weird feeling.
05:10I love that analogy, by the way.
05:11Winger's a sharp guy.
05:12Yes, he is.
05:12But I was thinking about this.
05:14So the World Series, I would not have had this any other way.
05:17Okay.
05:18I was spoiled rotten.
05:19I was very lucky.
05:20Game seven, 2019 World Series.
05:22I was in Houston.
05:24And for the radio broadcast with Charlie and Dave, went down on the field, did a postgame interview.
05:29And I covered for them as they came out of the booth downstairs to do the clubhouse show, right?
05:35So I'm literally running out onto the field in the seconds after the Nats have won game seven of the
05:40World Series in Houston.
05:41And as Ryan Zimmerman's crying and hugging Max Scherzer, my goofball self is like standing there tugging on their jerseys
05:47like,
05:47Anybody want to talk to me?
05:49I've got a microphone.
05:50What are you guys making a championship?
05:52Right.
05:52So that was the coolest thing ever.
05:54But that night, I was sitting with a couple of media guys.
05:58I think Barry's for Luga, somebody else watching all of the clips of DC and people running the streets and
06:03half street and the Navy yard,
06:05whatever was going on.
06:06And there was a little bit of FOMO to not be in DC, but you can't be in both places
06:09at once.
06:10Yeah, totally.
06:10And I kind of get it with like, I'm not with my family.
06:13I'm not with my wife.
06:15Like these people that I watch all these games with, it was a little bit strange.
06:18And that's what he's talking about.
06:19The coolest thing in the world just happened.
06:21You wouldn't have it any other way.
06:22Right.
06:22But it's just you for a little while.
06:24You wouldn't trade the experience.
06:25But at the same time, I was hanging out with all my friends, my five, my, at the time, my
06:28five-year-old son got to see a championship from the baseball team that I never thought we'd even have.
06:33Like that was unbelievable and perfect.
06:36But would it be cool to be there too?
06:38Here's Michael Winger on something that I've brought up a lot on the show.
06:42I loved this answer because I think it, it speaks to something you and I have debated.
06:46So he's talking about having a lot of cap space.
06:48So I did not love the Trey Young trade.
06:53I was whelmed by it.
06:54I was fine with it.
06:55I really didn't love the Anthony Davis trade.
06:59When I say that, both trades you gave up next to nothing and you got really good players.
07:03So I have no problem with them.
07:05But my point that I've made on the air over and over again, Danny, is I like the idea of
07:10the cap space and the possibilities of what could lie ahead more than I like the known being locked into
07:20Trey Young and Anthony Davis.
07:22You see what I'm saying?
07:23Yes, I do.
07:24I don't know what's behind that door when I've got all the cap space and all the assets and I'm
07:29able to kick the can down the road until I make the decision as to who I'm going to build
07:33the whole thing around.
07:34But the unknown behind the door of maybe it's something amazing, better to me, greater than Trey Young with his
07:42defensive flaws and Anthony Davis, who just doesn't play enough basketball games.
07:47But one of the things that's come up as we've debated this is cap space today and cap space five
07:53years ago are not equal.
07:54This is the thing.
07:55And so maybe I need to recalibrate a little bit on this.
07:59Now, I think of cap space not just as free agency, but I also think of cap space as the
08:03ability to inherit and trade for players.
08:05But in the NBA, so many of those guys have no trades or have say with their agents who run
08:09the sport on whether or not they want to go there.
08:11But listen to what Winger had to say about cap space and why, in part, they made the trades they
08:17did because just having all the money to spend is not as great as it might sound.
08:22I think it's a high risk going into free agency with a tremendous amount of cap space in what could
08:29also be a limited free agent marketplace.
08:32And so that was part of our analysis, that pie chart was, okay, if we don't do this deal with
08:39Trey and then we don't subsequently do the second deal with AD, what are we doing with this cap space?
08:43Well, one, we're going to chase Trey Young and hope he comes, but it sure would be a whole, hell
08:48of a lot easier to sign him in free agency if he's already got six months of experience with us,
08:52wouldn't it?
08:53So that's partly why we traded for him.
08:56But there's got to be guys in free agency that are willing to come, right?
09:00And you don't know that.
09:01You don't know.
09:02Yeah.
09:02You don't know.
09:03And guys aren't really getting to free agency anymore.
09:06It's like if a player wants to be on his team and a team wants him on that team, they
09:14pay him, like they extend him.
09:16And so it's just not as prevalent as it used to be.
09:22Like you used to be able to go into free agency with a bunch of cap room and, you know,
09:25have, you know, meetings lined up and talk to talk to stars and they just don't get there anymore.
09:31I love that answer.
09:33I could debate the merits of chasing Trey Young and free agency because he said that might be what we
09:37do with the money.
09:38And I could say, ah, let's not chase him and give him a huge contract.
09:41But that was apparently one of the things they were kicking around anyway, which makes it even more reasonable to
09:45trade for him.
09:46But when he says free agents have to be willing to come, I think they've done their research and they
09:51know we're still not there.
09:53You see it with Anthony Davis.
09:54Right.
09:54We're still not the cool kid.
09:55Free agents don't want to seek us out.
09:58We need to trade for these guys or else we don't get these guys.
10:02And it's also his other point, because you can get more money as an NBA player.
10:06Now, the reason they did this, it's not what's happening in effect, but bear with me.
10:09Teams would gripe about, I drafted it for the sake of argument.
10:12Let's say, let's say Keyshawn George becomes a superstar and teams are going, I basically just put in all the
10:18work to make him a superstar.
10:19Now he's going to leave and go play in one of the four cool cities for all the money.
10:22We need to be able to entice guys to stay home and have fans be excited.
10:27So they go, okay, you can offer him an extra year and more money than anybody else.
10:31And that was the design was to be able to keep your own stars.
10:33The old bird rights stuff and max and super max and super duper, super duper, super max.
10:38So that changed, but they let the genie out of the bottle in another area where they gave players every
10:42bit of autonomy.
10:43Really, a couple super agents still are brokering the league and doing it the way that they want.
10:47So what turned into players can stay with their own teams.
10:52Yes, they can sign for the most money and then demand a trade.
10:55See, our very own Anthony Davis, who did it in New Orleans, signed there for the most money.
10:59Then said, thank you so much for that contract.
11:01Now trade mid L.A.
11:02And that kind of became the precedent.
11:04So yes, you have to stockpile assets for trades.
11:06It just, it made me pause and think, okay, maybe I need to update my thinking a little bit on
11:13the value of having all of the cap space.
11:17Because he is saying, he pushed back on it being basically a bad idea that it's a fool's errand to
11:24just keep all the cap space.
11:25But he did say it's a risk.
11:27And I think when you're a team like the Wizards, you could probably make the case that it doesn't help
11:31you as much as it should.
11:32So there's something to that.
11:33And I think it's smart even when we think about the Capitals.
11:36You know, the Caps found out last night, by the way, with the Ducks getting eliminated by the Golden Knights.
11:41So the Nick Dowds beat the John Carlson's in the Western Conference playoff.
11:45Dowd is on to an opportunity to try to make a run for a cup here.
11:49The Caps are going to be picking 16th and 18th based on getting that Ducks pick.
11:54We now know when it is going to be in the first round based on them being eliminated in the
11:58Carlson deal.
11:59But we talk a lot about all the cap space that the Capitals have.
12:02And everyone brings up, yeah, but there's not enough good players to spend all that money on anyway.
12:07My point is, you can trade for these players.
12:09And the Caps are actually a team that people want to come to.
12:12They're not the Wizards.
12:13They are the cool kid.
12:14You get to come potentially play with Ovi if he's still playing.
12:17Even if not, one of the best teams in the East that's been one of the best teams in hockey
12:20for going on the last 15 years.
12:22But in basketball, it is hard to get people to come here.
12:26So I thought that was a smart point.
12:27Another thing he said that was informative for me and maybe pushed back on one of my takes that I've
12:32had on the show was,
12:34I'm just not a huge Trey Young guy.
12:37I don't think he's like a winning basketball player.
12:40I think he is an offensive assassin.
12:42I think he is an incredible savant with the basketball.
12:46And he's a jump starter of an offense.
12:48But I don't think he's a complete player that you're going to win a lot with.
12:51And I kind of kept pointing at the Leo meme with the Hawks after he left this year.
12:55See what's happening there?
12:58But, he did not name Trey Young here.
13:00But you tell me you don't think he's talking about Trey Young.
13:03He was asked something to the effect of,
13:05what's something that you've learned in your time as an executive that maybe people don't know?
13:09Listen to this answer from Winger.
13:11One other thing that I recall learning, particularly in Oklahoma City, I'm sorry, with LA, is all these guys are
13:19still writing the book on who they are, no matter how old they are.
13:23And whatever some guy did in Miami or Charlotte or Brooklyn, your environment can help a guy be different.
13:32Like, while leopards may or may not be able to change their spots, the perception of that leopard can change.
13:39And so, you know, we had some rough dudes in LA from time to time.
13:44And they were unbelievably important to our organization.
13:49And, like, whether or not people could change, I don't know the answer to that.
13:53But don't necessarily take the most widely held view of a guy and assume that that's the truth.
14:01And so, really knowing a guy and giving him grace, giving him a second chance or a third chance to
14:08be something different than maybe he's been before, I think that's really important.
14:13I think that's a smart point in life and in business.
14:16Yeah.
14:17Because someone is a malcontent and annoyed with their role here and maybe, you know, an energy cancer or something,
14:25doesn't mean if you work with him at another radio station when they're happier and have a better role in
14:29a different, you know, lease on life or something,
14:31that they can't be the opposite of that, right?
14:34And when I hear him saying that, I thought about Trae Young and the perceptions.
14:38I thought about Anthony Davis and the perceptions of him.
14:40And his point is just, when you're in a different situation with different people around you, you might become a
14:46different person.
14:47You might be a different, I don't just mean player, but personality in the locker room.
14:52Yeah.
14:52And let's say he is talking about Trae Young specifically.
14:55You know about the personality knock where he's sort of thought is maybe detached a little bit and maybe not
15:02as into his teammates as maybe a true leader should be, etc.
15:06Who knows?
15:07Maybe it was a weird group of guys in Atlanta.
15:09You give them a chance to mature.
15:10You go, now, he also talked about this on this podcast.
15:13No need to play that sort of the direct quotes.
15:16Acknowledges, yeah, he's never going to be an absolute demon on defense.
15:20That's not who he is.
15:21But he's still a multi-threat on offense.
15:25He could do all these different things.
15:26And we would love for teams to go, let's attack Trae Young and go to the basket.
15:30We've got a couple of the best erasers the sport has to offer back there.
15:33Please do that as a strategy to attack us.
15:36So Trae Young is not a losing player specifically.
15:38Like, how much of it is his fault that Karis LeVert wasn't great when he was in Atlanta or, you
15:44know, that Zachary Reissachet isn't a star yet?
15:46I have no idea.
15:47But you put him around a good recipe where you can throw lobs to AD, kick it to, you know,
15:52three other shooters potentially out there and hide him on defense a little bit.
15:55You could do a lot worse.
15:56But, again, the thing I like the most, and we can get back to hearing from him, I just love
16:01how thoughtful everything is.
16:04It is so well-reasoned and planned.
16:06Even if you disagree vehemently with the viewpoint or the conclusion that it leads to, it is so clear that,
16:13no, no, we thought about that too.
16:14And here's the place we got to in a conversation.
16:17It just makes me so happy.
16:18He was also asked about Darren Peterson and the work they're going to have to put in to try to
16:23figure out what the heck happened to him at Kansas this past season.
16:26I want to play that clip next.
16:28We can also get into another fun question was, like, how will he break a tie if A.J. DeBonsa
16:34and Peterson are even on their board?
16:36And he said that that won't happen, that by the time they're done their research, there's no way there would
16:41ever be a tie, basically, which I found, forget this draft.
16:44I just thought that was, I've never heard an executive say that about a draft board.
16:48We'll get into that too.
16:49Grant and Danny with you on the phone.
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