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Joe House joins G&D to break down the Wizards landing the coveted first pick in the draft.
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00:00I have long admired the work of our guests on the Rude Guest Hotline, but we haven't had them on
00:04the show, I don't think, and if we have, it's been a long, long time.
00:08Because frankly, we don't get to talk about the Wizards that much, but the world is changing in front of
00:13our eyes.
00:13For the good, I love it.
00:14You grows up and you grows up.
00:16House from D.C. on social, you guys know him as House in the district, but it's Joe House of
00:22the Ringers Podcast Network.
00:25Joe, thank you for a few minutes. Grant and Danny here in D.C., how are you?
00:29Boys, first time, long time. I don't know what took us so long, but we're starting off on the right
00:36foot.
00:37I still have the hair standing up on the back of my neck from that clip you just played.
00:43I just can't hear that thing enough, that draft clip.
00:47I want to know, House, who gets the residuals that came up with that music?
00:54Because the NBA plays it under the actual announcement.
00:57And so we have no track, no audio to just play the words.
01:02We have to play that music every time. Someone's making good cash on that.
01:07This is, I love this business angle. You're always thinking of the correct angle, Grant.
01:13Well, so I have to offer a quick thank you.
01:15There are no advocates for us, for like the 11 of us Wizards fans in the world that still care
01:20about the future of this franchise, etc.
01:22Or maybe the worm is turning in a good way.
01:25But for a long time, you are our one voice in the national consciousness, where everybody's just beating up on
01:30us whenever we come up.
01:31So I want to thank you on behalf of all 12 Wizards fans.
01:35Well, Danny, I mean, it's been a hell of a run.
01:38We haven't had anything to really tout since the 2017 run, where we got to the semifinals against the dastardly
01:47Celtics.
01:48I hated that series so much, the outcome of that series.
01:51But it felt like we might have a window of Washington being relevant on the hoop scene with our own
01:58version of a big three.
02:00It was kind of a medium three with Wall, Beal, and Otto.
02:04But, you know, the basketball fates were not in our favor.
02:09And it just took a whole other generation for us to get to this moment, finally.
02:15I mean, the team has been deservedly a bit of a laughingstock over the last, you know, at least half
02:23decade.
02:23But with the arrival of Michael Winger and Will Dawkins and the arrival of the semblance of a plan, something
02:33that the fans can kind of hear.
02:37Here is a vision.
02:38Here is what we're going to try and do.
02:40Here's the goal that we have in front of us.
02:42And we've seen other franchises in the league very quickly through the draft and some shrewd drafting and some pre
02:51-agent maneuvering accelerate their rebuild.
02:55Look no further than the San Antonio Spurs, where we get to watch tonight, right?
03:00Three straight picks.
03:01They knock the picks out of the park with Harper, with Castle, and, of course, Wemby.
03:07But, you know, look at them.
03:09They were not down for long.
03:12And there's no reason that this Washington team, if we get this pick right, and I don't see how we
03:19can't, aren't competing in a way that the national, all of the hoops heads out there on the national scene
03:28have to take us seriously.
03:30Hearing you say that is crazy to think about, but it's reality.
03:34And we're knocking on the door now.
03:36It's right in front of them.
03:37It's amazing, because I think you can go through 25 years.
03:40Like, if you're my age and you're mid-30s, it's the Gill era, right?
03:45Then it's the Wald-Beal group you mentioned that got a Linux in Game 7.
03:50And that's kind of the blips over a couple of decades.
03:52There are some decent teams here or there, but that's been the extent of it.
03:57So let's go back to when they hit the lottery and got number one.
04:00Did you immediately think, okay, they got A.J. DeBonsa, or were you just viewing it as the asset that
04:06could unlock whatever they wanted to?
04:09Oh, no.
04:10I thought immediately DeBonsa.
04:12DeBonsa has been the prize.
04:14I think the way that the college season played out, what we saw in terms of the tournament,
04:20and the disservice that Peterson did himself and the Peterson camp in not being on the same page with Kansas
04:30and whatever the combination of injury and whatever other elements were conspiring to keep Peterson from playing competitive basketball,
04:40to me, DeBonsa is the clear number one.
04:43I have no hesitation or reservation.
04:45I do think he can be a leader.
04:47The basketball skill set speaks for itself.
04:51I think he's pro-ready.
04:54The scoring that he demonstrated, especially when BYU lost its second best scoring option
05:01and the way that he became the focus of opposing defenses and still got his 26 or 27 points.
05:08No, I thought immediately about DeBonsa and was dreaming in those initial moments about how he might fit,
05:17but then my phone started filling up with a narrative that became kind of a national narrative,
05:22which is, might Washington trade out of that pick?
05:26Doesn't Utah love A.J. DeBonsa?
05:28And so I guess we have to kind of sit tight and see what comes out over the next several
05:35weeks in terms of potential trade offers.
05:38But if we end up with A.J. DeBonsa, and that would be my estimate of what's going to happen,
05:44I will be beside myself.
05:46So I'm with you.
05:47It's interesting to me, though, because the buzz to your point,
05:50and there was a guy very recently that I saw was at the Combine who basically said,
05:57hey, this is a lot closer than people think.
05:59Everyone thinks it's like DeBonsa, Big Gap, Peterson.
06:03This is like DeBonsa and Peterson as co-stars on this thing.
06:07What do you make of that?
06:09I think you're right.
06:10And I'm hearing the same thing from a lot of different quarters in the NBA community.
06:16And some of that has to do with priors.
06:18In advance of the college basketball season that was just competed,
06:24Peterson was the clear-cut number one.
06:26Peterson was the one that had the acclaim.
06:29And all he had to do was basically hold serve over his college season.
06:33And he was the presumptive number one.
06:36And a lot of that had to do with how he performed on the international stage
06:41and some of the under-19 stuff.
06:43And also, you know, his high performance in your elite, you know,
06:49AAU kind of situations.
06:52I think folks are willing to kind of extend the benefit of the doubt a little bit
06:57with Peterson.
06:58For whatever reason, you know,
07:00he's not going to take all the blame for that situation in Kansas not working out.
07:04But I keep getting sort of input from folks saying,
07:07don't be so sure that that pick will be the Bonsa.
07:12And even, you know, the athletic Josh Robbins had a piece up just yesterday, I think,
07:19about where they pulled some anonymous execs and, you know, got some input.
07:24And the majority said, yeah, just take AJ and rest assured that it'll work out.
07:31But there were some Peterson votes in that mix.
07:33Joe House with us here on G&D,
07:35at House from D.C., on the Twitterverse Ringer Podcast Network.
07:38So what's kind of the best case and worst case here with this draft?
07:42In other words, I'm with you on DeBonsa.
07:44I'm co-signing.
07:45I'm just trying to wrap my brain around some of the opportunities or potentials here.
07:49The worst it can be is blank, and the best it can be is what?
07:54So the best to me is just DeBonsa.
07:57We keep the number one pick, and we take him.
08:01The second best would be Utah reaching the conclusion that they just absolutely,
08:07positively have to have AJ, and they're willing to indulge in some pain.
08:12And the trade offer that they make to Washington is the number two overall pick,
08:17an ace, Bailey, and one of the many, many future firsts that Utah has in its arsenal
08:25in the future.
08:27I would accept that.
08:29I would take that as the worst case scenario.
08:32Anything else, I just have to see it.
08:35I mean, it would have to be a very high pick in this draft because you need a top four
08:42pick.
08:42It would have to be another very young player, and it would have to be additional draft capital.
08:47I am not interested in any way, shape, or form in any established player for that number one overall pick.
08:55I really, I mean, unless it's something absolutely insane like Luka Doncic, you know, whatever,
09:03you know, preposterous kind of names you could come up with.
09:08I just don't think it makes any sense for what this Washington roster looks like to bring a seasoned player
09:15in
09:15because we're already in the position of having to figure out where to put Anthony Davis.
09:20So in terms of worst it can be, I guess here's where I was going with that house.
09:23It's like five years down the road, Peterson's an MVP candidate and DeBonce is fine.
09:28Do you know what I mean?
09:29How will we look back at this and go, man, they swung and missed?
09:33Because this is a consensus thing.
09:34It's like these two guys up at the top are both so good that even if they throw a dart
09:38and miss it and they hit Boozer,
09:40he's pretty good too.
09:41Like what's the worst this draft can be, kind of the blessing of that number one overall pick?
09:46That's funny.
09:47You know, the crazy thing is Caleb Wilson probably has the highest ceiling of anybody
09:54because he's an unknown quantity with how much of the season he missed it at Carolina.
10:02But he is, you know, athlete-wise, just insane.
10:07I think, you know, some folks said the worst case scenario with DeBonce is in Andrew Wiggins' career.
10:13Andrew Wiggins did make the All-Star team once,
10:17but was a very important player on a team that won an NBA title.
10:21Andrew Wiggins has a ring, so I guess you would say DeBonce, that's your downside scenario.
10:29And Peterson, I mean, Boozer's going to help whoever he goes to.
10:33His skill set is immediately translatable into viable NBA minutes.
10:40And Peterson's kind of a great unknown.
10:42I mean, the comps for Peterson coming into this season was he has the same kind of skill set
10:49as Kobe at Kobe, you know, in those early days of Kobe.
10:54Nobody would be stupid enough to make a Kobe comparison now.
10:57But because of the size and the dynamic playmaking,
11:01and, you know, Peterson is a sneaky good shooter.
11:05So the downside would be that Peterson's Kobe, that Caleb Wilson is KG,
11:12and that DeBonce is Andrew Wiggins.
11:15How about that?
11:16I want to get into this poll with you, House, if you don't mind,
11:19that 161 players from the Athletic were asked various questions.
11:24And the Wizards, not surprisingly, came in second most votes on the
11:28don't want to be traded there list.
11:30Memphis was one, Washington was two.
11:33They were also tied for last in terms of, quote,
11:36which arena has the most passionate fans, end quote.
11:40And that's a lifetime achievement award.
11:41That doesn't surprise me.
11:43I get that.
11:44But where are you at?
11:46I set it up to ask you about Davis and Young.
11:49I didn't love either of those trades.
11:51I liked them fine because you didn't give anything up that mattered.
11:54And in the case of Young, you're going to get someone who can jumpstart the offense,
11:57whatever.
11:57However, Davis, unlike Young, doesn't really seem to want to be here.
12:01And in the nicest way, possibly just keeps saying, I want to win next year.
12:05That team can't win next year.
12:06But he's not connecting the dots.
12:08So where are you on those two veterans?
12:10And could they move Davis and get something in this draft?
12:13Or is that not something you're trying to do?
12:16Grant, I'm honestly surprised to hear that Washington fared so poorly
12:21in terms of other players saying that Washington has a potential kind of destination.
12:30Because that was one of the things that C.J. McCollum was so great about
12:35and did us an enormous service on his way out.
12:40He was very vocal about how this is not the old Washington,
12:44that they are doing business with a vision, with a game plan.
12:49This is a shrewd front office.
12:51And that in terms of the player development aspect,
12:56McCollum was very effusive in his praise about the direction Washington is headed.
13:03But it has to be the case that still that old Washington stink is out there.
13:10And it's going to take a handful of years of success to get rid of it.
13:15The league, you know, Stephen A. went on, what was it, two weeks ago, ten days ago,
13:20the bosses should refuse to go to Washington because they're bums.
13:25Well, okay, Stephen A.
13:26That's fine.
13:28That was maybe true.
13:29That's weird because he's been so measured and reasonable since they got the number one pick.
13:33So plugged in, yeah.
13:37Yeah, exactly.
13:39And, I mean, that's a fair enough complaint five years ago.
13:42But, you know, the league changes, personnel changes, you know, the guys change.
13:47And Middleton also said nice things on his way out.
13:53I think Anthony Davis does make sense as a trade candidate.
13:59And there are three different moments when that could happen.
14:01And it could happen this summer, right, where one of these teams that got knocked out of the playoffs
14:07that had higher kind of ambition, a team like Detroit, honestly, or Orlando.
14:17If Cleveland underperforms against the Knicks, I wouldn't be surprised to see them shake something up.
14:24But Davis could be part of the summer movement.
14:29And then you also have this window between the beginning of the season and Christmas
14:35where teams arrive with an expectation about how they're going to fare in the upcoming season.
14:40And it doesn't go well over the first month.
14:43And those teams feel, you know, kind of pressure to do something right away.
14:48And so before Christmas, you could see a trade.
14:51And then obviously the trade deadline is another moment.
14:54But it would, I think, behoove Davis to come play, to be a good soldier,
14:59to act like he's going to mentor Saar for a little bit.
15:02I mean, folks haven't seen Anthony Davis play meaningful basketball in two years.
15:07So it would be good for him to show up healthy and happy and with a good attitude,
15:12even with the eye on the door, potentially.
15:17But the team and his representation, I hope, work out the messaging in terms of what's in his best interest,
15:24Davis' best interest.
15:26Trey Young, I think, will be fine.
15:28I think they're going to give him an extension.
15:29And I think that he's happy to be here.
15:32He's in a different phase in his career.
15:34The pressure's not on him to be a relentless scorer.
15:38And, you know, it's a dynamic athletic team behind him that should be able to make up
15:43for the defensive liabilities that Trey Young presents.
15:47But if he and Saar get going on a pick and roll and we see Saar flying down the lane
15:54on Trey Young's short oops,
15:57that's going to be a really nice outcome.
16:00So you mentioned CJ McCollum, and we're also talking Anthony Davis here.
16:03Grant and I have gone back and forth on this a million times, House.
16:07And here's my point.
16:08Stephen A. Smith, as a tourist who doesn't really follow what's going on, saying the Wizards are an abomination,
16:13okay, that's par for it.
16:14This survey's still out there.
16:15Changing that perception to be one of the cool kids that gets the disgruntled free agent
16:20or the disgruntled max contract player that wants to agitate and get a trade somewhere,
16:24getting at that table is worth any maneuvering you're going to make for Anthony Davis in dealing with his ego,
16:30having LeBron up, whatever podcast he was on, say he was intrigued with what the Wizards were doing.
16:34To change that perception of 50 years of losing and being a joke, frankly, unserious at times,
16:40to me is the most important part about all of this.
16:42And it's going to take some work, but I think that work is happening right now.
16:45And that's kind of why I'm more okay maybe with that Davis trade coming here than maybe some other folks
16:50are.
16:50Because even though he's saying, yeah, the timing may not match up,
16:53he's still singing the praises of the local team.
16:56Just watch your thoughts there.
16:57Yeah, that's exactly the best case kind of outcome.
17:03Here's the thing.
17:04Washington hasn't been a team worth watching for how long?
17:10Since Westbrook helped drag a team of bums to the playoffs.
17:15He took Beta Beal and Westbrook was the alpha.
17:19And I will say this out loud, Russell Westbrook deserves a pat on the back and a hug from Denny
17:28Avdia,
17:29who Denny, very early in his career, he saw the work ethic and the energy that Westbrook brought to the
17:38table every day.
17:39I think Russell Westbrook had a significant impact on Denny Avdia's development.
17:44And so this player that Denny's blossomed into, I hope that Denny said great things about Westbrook when he was
17:52here.
17:52But in any event, the point is, there has been no reason whatsoever to be interested in Washington for probably
18:00a full since 2017.
18:02So that's 10 years.
18:04Well, now they're going to be on the national stage with some national games,
18:07no matter what they do with this number one overall pick.
18:09And especially if it's the Bonsa, we're going to have primetime games here in Washington.
18:16And Washington, you know, the fans will show up and show out.
18:19You guys know this better than anybody.
18:21This is an amazing basketball town.
18:23And we show the F up when, you know, the talent is warranted, when there's a competitive team,
18:30when the games are in doubt, when it seems like, you know, we can go out and contend with the
18:37big boys.
18:37And as an up-and-coming team, LeBron ain't wrong.
18:40LeBron's paying attention.
18:41It is an interesting team.
18:43So we'll get the spotlight.
18:45If there's any kind of modicum of success with this Washington team,
18:49the tenor of the league's, you know, regard for what this team is all about should change.
18:58And especially with the vision of Wenger and Dawkins coming to fruition, the league will take notice.
19:04Oh, those are smart guys.
19:05Now, it's a lot of pressure on Brian Keefe.
19:09And Brian Keefe has a great, well-deserved reputation as a developmental coach.
19:15But I wouldn't be surprised if the bench here in Washington, in addition to all the good guys
19:21that have been helping these young guys develop, if we see some old heads land on the Washington bench
19:27to help usher in a competitive era this upcoming season.
19:31Yeah, it would make a lot of sense.
19:32Joe House is with us on Grant and Danny.
19:34So I want to bounce one more thing off you.
19:37And I want to play a clip from Michael Wenger talking on Rosillo's show.
19:42And he was talking about free agency and the idea that essentially just having a boatload of money
19:48might not be worth what it used to be, essentially.
19:50And I'm wondering if this is an area where I've got to update my file a little bit.
19:54Because that has been my argument, essentially, with the Davis, even the young thing.
19:59It's like, I want to keep my assets.
20:02I want to keep my money for what could be behind one of these doors, not knowing what it is.
20:06I don't want to settle down because what if Sidney Sweeney comes looking for me, right?
20:09And the point is, maybe Sidney Sweeney's not coming looking for me.
20:13But this is what Wenger had to say to Rosillo.
20:15I think it's a high risk going into free agency with a tremendous amount of cap space
20:22in what could also be a limited free agent marketplace.
20:25And so that was part of our analysis.
20:29That pie chart was, okay, if we don't do this deal with Trey,
20:32and then we don't subsequently do the second deal with AD, what are we doing with this cap space?
20:36Well, one, we're going to chase Trey Young and hope he comes.
20:40But it sure would be a whole, hell of a lot easier to sign him in free agency
20:43if he's already got six months of experience with us, wouldn't it?
20:46So that's partly why we traded for him.
20:50But there's got to be guys in free agency that are willing to come, right?
20:54And you don't know that.
20:55You don't know.
20:55Yeah.
20:56You don't know.
20:57And guys aren't really getting to free agency anymore.
21:02Is that basically the way to think about this now?
21:05Now he goes on to talk about how, with some of the rules, guys just don't hit the market.
21:11Do we need to update our files a little bit on being able to just have all the money
21:16and then accidentally, whoopsie-daisy, we've got to give it to Andrew Nicholson and Jan Mahimi?
21:22Right.
21:22That is precisely the era that we're in.
21:26I had not heard that clip until now.
21:29He knows better than anybody.
21:31But he's right.
21:32The direction that the league is headed, the currency, the most valuable currency, are high draft picks.
21:40High draft picks are much more valuable these days than free agent money
21:45because any player that is really interesting to the market, potentially, gets signed to an extension.
21:54The teams won't let them go.
21:56The teams will overpay in the extension class.
22:00Now, you know, you can point to Philadelphia as a team that, you know, made a miscalculation on that extension.
22:08They did not have to sign Embiid to the extension they signed him to.
22:13Then they had some cap space, and then they went after Paul George.
22:16That was a gamble that didn't pay dividends in the first year, and you could say, you know, whatever.
22:23They did knock the Celtics out of the playoffs in the most recently completed round, but they were not competitive
22:29at all with the Knicks.
22:32But the problem you have now is with that cash, you might end up with someone like, look at Toronto.
22:37Toronto has, in consecutive years, Brandon Ingram and in the previous year, Emmanuel Quickly.
22:43And the whole league looked at those two acquisitions as like, they weren't really bidding against anybody,
22:51and they paid a whole lot of money to those two guys.
22:54And Toronto, good for them.
22:56They are, you know, it seems like headed in the right direction.
22:59But they extended Jakob Pertl because they had the money, and now they're stuck with Jakob Pertl.
23:04They get $25 million a year, and that's a position that he can't, I mean, they can't play him.
23:10He couldn't play in the playoffs.
23:12They had a rookie, Murray Boyles, who was much, much, much better than Pertl.
23:17So you don't want to repeat those mistakes.
23:19And so I think this observation by Winger is absolutely on the money.
23:25And who am I to say?
23:27He's the executive paying attention to the league.
23:30I'm just a fan.
23:31House, we'll let you out on this.
23:33We've kept you too long, but we're making up for lost time here.
23:36I've got random Wizards names that I want to throw out there.
23:39I want your rapid-fire lightning round, like, word association, first thing that comes to mind.
23:45You ready?
23:46Yes.
23:47Peter John Ramos.
23:51Party!
23:53How about Tyrone Nesby?
23:57Oh, wow.
23:59Wow.
24:02I enjoyed his time here.
24:04What's a rapid-fire response?
24:06Swiss Army Knife.
24:08Okay, I dig that.
24:10Michael Smith and Mike Smith on the same team.
24:17Who is who?
24:18Which one is which?
24:19I can't tell you how to ask their parents.
24:21Ronald Popeye Jones will be my last one.
24:24All-timer.
24:25Love Popeye Jones so much.
24:27Great, great teammate.
24:28Look at the career he's made for himself in the league.
24:31Beloved.
24:31Beloved.
24:32That's the word.
24:33Darius Sungaila.
24:37We got him at the end.
24:40Professional.
24:42And my final one.
24:43Bobby Simmons.
24:46Oh, gosh.
24:48Me too.
24:49Wow.
24:51Bobby Simmons from Sacramento?
24:53Did we have him on the Wizards for a minute?
24:55Not that one.
24:55The other one.
24:56The wrong Bobby Simmons.
24:58I think, oh, gosh, was probably the right answer.
25:00Yeah, oh, gosh, is the correct answer.
25:02Yeah.
25:02That's the answer.
25:03Yeah, I don't know.
25:04Washington to Clippers to Bucs.
25:06Yeah, the Ford from DePaul that everyone thought was going to be Paul Pierce 2.0.
25:09It's like 0-1.
25:10Spoiler alert, he was not.
25:11Didn't work out.
25:12Not so much.
25:13House, good to have you on, man.
25:15We will catch up soon.
25:16But how about, I mean, you're all over the place.
25:18The Wizards are relevant in D.C., baby.
25:20You're in demand.
25:22Let's go.
25:22We're going to have to see each other at a game this upcoming season.
25:25But let's not wait until then to get on the phone again together, fellas.
25:30Absolutely.
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