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00:01Out front next, the president lashing out when confronted with surging inflation numbers,
00:06the war with Iran in large part to blame.
00:09Trump saying he does not think about the financial situation of Americans.
00:13Also breaking this hour, the doctor who was on board that cruise with a hantavirus outbreak
00:17is our guest tonight, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld.
00:20He's been on this show.
00:21He jumped into action when people became sick and he helped them.
00:24He is right now the one American passenger who has been isolated in a biocontainment unit
00:29after an initial positive test.
00:32He breaks his silence tonight right here.
00:34And a CNN investigation, a Russian ship that may have been carrying nuclear reactors,
00:39possibly headed for North Korea, sinks in the Mediterranean.
00:43Who did it? Why was it there? Let's go out front.
00:49And good evening, I'm Erin Burnett.
00:50And out front tonight, the breaking news, Trump's stunning slam of Americans.
00:54As we speak, President Trump is in the air.
00:56He is flying to Beijing, where he is going to meet in a very high-stakes summit
01:01with the Chinese President Xi Jinping.
01:02But before Trump got on the plane, he was talking to reporters.
01:05And he said something that, even in the context of never knowing what's going to be said
01:10on any given day, is shocking.
01:12Here he is responding to questions about inflation numbers,
01:14which broke this morning at the highest levels in three years,
01:18due in no small part to the surge in energy prices because of the war in Iran.
01:32Okay, I'm sorry, the sound is not playing.
01:34I'm just going to read it to you because it's important to hear it.
01:37So what happened was, do we have it now?
01:40Okay, let me play it.
01:49What's been our American financial situation motivating you to make a deal?
01:54Not even a little bit.
01:55The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran,
01:59they can't have a nuclear weapon.
02:00I don't think about American financial situation.
02:07He really said that.
02:11Now, it is hard to get your head around a President of the United States saying that.
02:15He was asked, you know, he said, not even a little bit.
02:18I don't think about Americans' financial situation,
02:20especially on the day when he found out that prices are rising so much
02:25that they are more than eating up any wage gains that Americans have.
02:29We're having a little difficulty with the sound.
02:31Let me see if I can play this exchange.
02:33Your promise to bring inflation down is now at its highest level in three years.
02:37Are your policies not working?
02:39My policies are working incredibly.
02:41If you go back to just before the war, for the last three months, inflation was at 1.7%.
02:48Now, we had a choice.
02:50Let these lunatics have a nuclear weapon.
02:53If you want to do that, then you're a stupid person.
02:56And you happen to be.
02:57I mean, I know you very well.
03:00So just some fact checks on this.
03:02First, the premise that Americans are suffering inflation because otherwise Iran would get a nuke.
03:07That is false, not just by the assessment of U.S. intelligence, which, of course, calls that false,
03:12but by Trump's own words.
03:13He said, quote, it was a total obliteration when it came to the U.S. destroying Iran's nuclear program back
03:19in July of 2025.
03:20So to say that inflation numbers right now, that it was either this war or a nuke or inflation, that
03:26is false.
03:27That's first.
03:28Second, inflation was not 1.7% before the war.
03:31It was 2.4%.
03:32And third, inflation is up.
03:34And it is not just up to the highest rate in three years.
03:37It is, as I indicated, rising more than wages.
03:41It means that any wage gain you get is eaten up and then even more by rising prices, which means
03:46Americans are poorer.
03:48Paychecks grew 3.6% from a year ago.
03:51Prices rose 3.8%.
03:54And a meaningful part of the reason for that is energy prices, which are surging because of the Iran war.
03:59Gas prices, in fact, are up 65% in the past six months.
04:02Now, some of that even predated the war, by the way.
04:04That's why that inflation number Trump had put out was false.
04:06But people are feeling serious pain now.
04:09And again, this is what the president said about that pain today.
04:15Not even a little bit.
04:16The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon.
04:21I don't think about Americans' financial situation.
04:27I don't think about Americans' financial situation.
04:30Well, that's the president of the United States.
04:31So then what is he thinking about?
04:33Well, he did answer questions today about the ballroom and the reflecting pool.
04:39You may want to go see the reflecting pool because that's under construction.
04:44And for the first time since 1922, it's going to work properly.
04:49We have a ballroom that's under budget.
04:51It's going up right here.
04:53I've doubled the size of it because we obviously need that.
04:56And we're right now on budget, under budget, and ahead of schedule.
05:02I doubled the size of it, you dumb person.
05:05It's double the size.
05:07You are not a smart person.
05:12That's the president of the United States.
05:13And his behavior today came after he spent much of the night seemingly awake.
05:18Maybe that's why he's so testy, posting and reposting on social media.
05:21In fact, since 10 o'clock last night, overnight more than 75 times.
05:26Do you know anybody who does that?
05:28Including posting a picture of a $100 bill with his own face on it.
05:31He posted that.
05:31He also posted Mount Rushmore with his face being etched into the stone.
05:35And then he posted an AI-generated image of former presidents Obama and Biden,
05:39along with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi swimming in sewage.
05:42So he posted all of those things in those 70-plus books.
05:47Kristen Holmes is traveling with the president out front live in Beijing.
05:51So, Kristen, right with all of this that I just laid out,
05:54you are actually in China for one of the most incredibly high-stakes moments of this presidency.
06:00What more are you learning, though, about how frustrated Trump is with the war,
06:04with the bad economic numbers that sparked him to tell the American people
06:08that he does not think about their financial situation not even a little bit before he got on the plane?
06:15Yeah, I mean, that was wild, Erin.
06:17And I do want to be very clear.
06:18There are so many White House officials who have been telling him day in and day out
06:23that inflation is a problem for him, that higher gas numbers are a problem for him,
06:27that this war in Iran is a problem for him because it is causing problems within the economy,
06:30which they believe that Americans care the most about.
06:33Just a reminder, part of the reason that President Trump was successful in 2024
06:37is because his team and he were tapping into what Americans cared about
06:41in terms of the economy in a way that others just weren't.
06:46Now you see President Trump distancing himself from this.
06:48Now, President Trump grows increasingly frustrated
06:50when he feels like the messaging isn't on his side,
06:53when he feels like he doesn't have anything to rely on to talk about the positives.
06:57He is one who likes to spin any situation.
06:59And it's becoming much, much, much, much harder to actually spin
07:02what's happening with the war in Iran and what's happening currently with the economy.
07:07President Trump there lashing out at reporters.
07:09This is what he does when he can't spin the narrative in the way that he wants to spin it.
07:13And I will tell you, going into this, as you said,
07:15a consequential summit with President Xi, this is happening at a time
07:19where now the Iran war is looming over this.
07:22President Trump thought it was going to be over by now.
07:24That's why he delayed this six weeks.
07:26He thought this wouldn't be something that was going to cause
07:28any kind of overshadowing of the summit.
07:30But yet here we are again.
07:31And you heard him in this back and forth with reporters at one point saying
07:35he didn't really need the help of President Xi.
07:37Well, we have talked to a number of U.S. officials
07:38who say that is part of the plan to push President Xi,
07:42to push their counterparts in Iran to open up the Strait of Hormuz,
07:45to come to a deal.
07:47That is going to be part of this long conversation.
07:50But I will tell you, when I am talking to these U.S. officials,
07:53when I'm talking to White House officials,
07:54they know how serious the problem the economy is right now,
07:57particularly as we head into those midterms.
07:59All right, Kristen, thank you very much.
08:01It's 7 o'clock tomorrow morning, tomorrow morning in Beijing.
08:05All right, right now, San Patrick Maloney.
08:07He is the former Democratic congressman and ambassador under Biden.
08:10S.E. Cupp, Republican strategist and, of course, regular here.
08:13And Adam Kobisi, financial analyst and founder of the Kobisi Letter.
08:16Adam, can I just start with you?
08:17Because we were starting with some of the basic facts here
08:19and Trump's stunning statement.
08:21It will be an unforgettable one.
08:23When he said, I don't think about Americans' financial situation.
08:28Inflation has not been this high in three years.
08:31Those are the numbers we got out today, Adam.
08:33And you have drilled down on just what that means.
08:37Yeah, so, you know, our thesis for the last 12-plus months
08:41has basically been, own assets are left behind.
08:43You know, it's been pretty widely stated now.
08:45And that has really been the situation that continues to be the case
08:49because of the fact that inflation,
08:51not only did it not fall to the Fed's 2% target,
08:54but now it's back up to 3.8%.
08:57And we're dealing with effectively what I like to call compounding inflation.
09:00So what does that mean?
09:01You had years of inflation that are now having inflation on top of that inflation.
09:07And since 2020, really since the pandemic,
09:10the U.S. dollar has lost around 30% of its purchasing power,
09:13which is, I mean, we saw that last in the 80s.
09:16That's pretty much unprecedented.
09:19And as a result, you're now seeing this,
09:22what I like to call a bifurcated K-shaped economy
09:24where those who own assets and those who own stocks and real estate
09:27and these various things that are protected against inflation
09:29are seeing the best economy of their life.
09:32But everybody else is seeing a terrible economy
09:35where actually consumer sentiment just hit the lowest level on record,
09:39dating all the way back to the 1900s last month.
09:42So I think this K-shaped economy will continue to widen
09:45and inflation really is the fuel behind that fire.
09:48I mean, it is incredible, Essie.
09:49And you can see it in, if you look at consumer sentiment numbers,
09:52how people feel, okay?
09:54The lowest since early 1900s.
09:55You just heard what Adam said.
09:56And yet the president, when asked about this today,
09:59and maybe this is in part because he was up all night posting
10:02and he's tired.
10:03I mean, you know, he's a human being.
10:04He says, I don't think about America's financial situation.
10:07I don't think that any political consultant
10:09could have come up with a statement that toxic.
10:11In an election year.
10:13We have to keep reminding because he seems to have forgotten
10:16it is an election year.
10:18Listen, another president could easily make this point,
10:21could say, listen, the threat of Iran is so existential,
10:25we're all going to have to bear some economic pain.
10:27But Trump's got two problems with this.
10:29He has not sold this war to the American people.
10:32And so the American people don't want to be in this war.
10:34Whatever reasons he's been giving,
10:37we are not buying and we're not into it.
10:39The other thing is this comes at a time when he has also been saying stupid things like
10:45affordability is a hoax, the ballroom, the reflecting pool, the money.
10:53I mean, he seems incredibly distracted and oblivious to the pain that Americans are feeling.
10:58He's literally going out and saying, that's a hoax.
11:01You are fine.
11:02This is the mistake that Joe Biden made in 2024 and Kamala Harris made in 2024.
11:07They looked people in the eye and said, the economy is great.
11:10What are you complaining about?
11:12They didn't listen.
11:13His own voters now are telling him, the economy is hurting me.
11:17Your tariffs and your war are hurting me.
11:19Do something about it.
11:20And he's saying, I don't think about you at all.
11:22It's a bad idea.
11:23It's literally what he said, Ambassador.
11:27And, you know, when Trump said, you know, and regular Americans are upset.
11:30We see that in the consumer sentiment numbers, right?
11:32We see that in the pain.
11:33You see that in the wages, right?
11:34This is what people are living.
11:37And yet, you know, here we are.
11:39Yeah.
11:40Look, it's gas, groceries, housing, health care.
11:42That's where middle class families live and die.
11:45And they see what's happening to them.
11:47Look, if there's two adversaries in the world,
11:49you want to have your A-game on when you walk into the room with,
11:53it's the Iranians and the Chinese.
11:55And the president's up all night mismanaging the war he launched precipitously in Iran.
12:01And now he's off to a summit, which is incredibly important to our country's future,
12:05to our economy, to our national security.
12:07And he's exhausted from tweeting all night.
12:10And as he points out, he's incredibly distracted.
12:13And the problem with the statement,
12:15it's not just the gotcha political misstatement of,
12:19I don't care about, I don't focus on Americans' concerns.
12:22Right.
12:22It's that he hasn't done anything about the nuclear threat from Iran.
12:26If anything, it's worse.
12:27And so the problem is,
12:29you're not asking people to suffer for a laudable goal.
12:33You're telling them they're suffering and you're not achieving the goal.
12:36And in some ways, you're making the threat worse.
12:39And that, to me, is the worst of all worlds.
12:41There's all that, of course, which is the reality.
12:43There's also the fact that he told everybody that he took care of that problem a while ago.
12:46And now he's saying, well, what, you know,
12:48when I mocked you and said you were fake news for saying I didn't obliterate it.
12:51Okay, right.
12:52So we all know that.
12:53Essie, I am, the post that he, I mean, 75 posts overnight.
12:58Yeah.
12:59Look, that's disturbing.
13:01Yes.
13:01Okay, I find that disturbing.
13:03Any American should find that disturbing, right?
13:04That means you're not sleeping.
13:05It means you're not in a good place.
13:07Yes.
13:08And these pictures, these include Mount Rushmore with his face, $100 bill with his face.
13:12It's not as, he's not posting deep policy thoughts.
13:15No.
13:16If our child or our parent were doing this, we'd be very worried about them.
13:20But this is a pattern of Trump's.
13:22You can always tell when his back is against the wall, he goes on these late night binges
13:27to flood the zone.
13:29Go back to all the late night binges.
13:31He was really up against it, either in polling or in terms of messaging, selling something that
13:36he couldn't sell, having to answer questions he didn't want to answer, whether it was Epstein
13:39or the war or tariffs.
13:40I mean, he's done this before.
13:42And he really is losing a lot of the support he could once count on, both from his own voters
13:48on the war, but also, you know, influencers and Fox News.
13:53You know, he's railing against Fox News constantly because they are not helping him sell this war
13:57or this economy.
13:58And he's up against it.
14:00This is what he does.
14:01You know, Adam, I'm also curious because Trump continues to make one prediction, which
14:06economists do not agree with, but he is making it consistently to Americans and specifically
14:13to his base.
14:13And this is what it is.
14:14Let me play it.
14:17As soon as this war is over, which will not be long, you're going to see oil prices drop
14:22and you're going to see a stock market, which is already at the highest point in history,
14:27go through the roof, you're going to see the golden age of America, frankly, and you're
14:33seeing it now.
14:36Adam, there's a lot there, but could I just start with the very basic thing here, oil prices
14:41that he says are essentially just going to snap back and be lower than they were before?
14:48This is the argument he keeps making.
14:51Yeah, so, I mean, look, if the war were to end today and the Strait of Hormuz was reopened
14:57today, we'd probably see oil prices fall, you know, 20 to 30 percent.
15:01But to get back to where we were before the war, which was around $55 per barrel or around
15:06a 50 percent drop, it's going to take a long time because when rigs shut their production,
15:11as we've seen in the Gulf countries and we've seen throughout the Middle East, turning back
15:16that oil production on doesn't just happen overnight.
15:18It's not just flipping a switch.
15:20Sometimes it takes months, even longer now, because some of these rigs have actually been
15:23destroyed.
15:24So we probably won't see full production, which is around 10 to 20 million barrels of
15:30oil per day that currently are offline through the Strait of Hormuz.
15:32We won't see that come back probably until the end of this year at best.
15:36But, you know, I want to go to the other side of the point where the stock market keeps
15:39hitting record highs.
15:41And I think the biggest mistake right now is people who are conflating the economy with the
15:45stock market.
15:46As I said, I do think the stock market will continue to hit record highs, but that's not
15:50necessarily because the economy is strong.
15:52Actually, it's the opposite, right?
15:53We're in a situation where inflation is high.
15:56It's driving people into assets.
15:58And then it's also kind of forcing the Fed in this weird situation where they're trying
16:02to help the consumer, but they can't.
16:04And then these large AI companies are just getting even bigger.
16:06So we can easily see this bifurcated economy continue to widen with stocks hitting continued
16:13record highs.
16:14But that doesn't necessarily mean consumer sentiment is strong.
16:17In fact, it's not.
16:17It's at record lows.
16:18And that doesn't mean that consumers in America are better off on average.
16:22And that's a crucial point.
16:24And by the way, looking at the market and those specific AI stocks that have driven it
16:28is a huge thing.
16:29Ambassador Maloney, Essie mentioned Fox News, right?
16:33And we know that there's been skepticism among some prominent people there about the war.
16:38There's also been, you know, Trump has lost very powerful people who were instrumental
16:41in his election, Megyn Kelly, Tuck and Carlson.
16:43He's gotten a lot of criticism from Joe Rogan.
16:45Immigration, the war, Epstein, you name it.
16:48But now on the economy, Laura Ingram, who is on at this time, she's a fellow seven o'clocker.
16:55She warned Trump early this morning about making deals with China.
16:58Didn't like it.
16:59Saying this is not.
17:00Went on and posted on that, right?
17:02So now even criticism, this is why you should not throw the CCP, Chinese Communist Party,
17:08a lifeline by giving them these deals.
17:10A direct criticism from a very important Fox News host on the economy and China, Ambassador.
17:15Right.
17:15Well, I always watch CNN at seven o'clock.
17:17But who would even know?
17:19Thanks for filling me in.
17:21But the fact is, is that, sure, look, it feels, Tessie's point, it feels like the walls
17:26are closing in on the president and you're seeing all of these things as a result.
17:30The problem is we're all in the room with him.
17:31The problem is you can't root for the president to fail.
17:35And so the Democrats' job in this difficult time is not just to content ourselves that
17:40the president is failing.
17:42It's to provide a vision for how we can work our way out of these problems, how we can rebuild
17:47our economy the right way, how we can restore some sense of security in the Middle East without
17:52engaging in another 10-year forever war.
17:54And if he's losing his own base, it's because that was the core promise he made, that he
17:59wouldn't stumble us into another forever war in the Middle East.
18:01And here we are.
18:03All right.
18:03Thanks all very much.
18:04And as you said, you know, we want success here.
18:06You want success with this summit.
18:08And that's why someone posting 75 times overnight, including a lot of those posts, is something
18:11that is disturbing for anyone.
18:14All right.
18:14Thank you all three very much.
18:15And next, an out-front exclusive, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, who was on board the cruise ship
18:19at the center of the Hantavirus outbreak, breaking his silence tonight.
18:23We had talked to him a few days ago.
18:25He joins us now live.
18:26He is in the biocontainment unit.
18:28After an initial mild positive test, he's going to explain exactly what all of this means.
18:33Plus, for the first time, we're hearing from a new Epstein survivor.
18:36She's calling out the DOJ's handling of the files, and you'll hear her tonight in her
18:41own words.
18:42And also this.
18:45This really is the craziest of stories about a Russian Shadow Fleet ship that sank off the
18:50coast here in the strangest of circumstances.
18:54The strangest of circumstances, as Nick said, that ship may have been carrying nuclear reactors
18:59to North Korea.
19:00So why did it sink in the Mediterranean?
19:03And who did it?
19:05Go for it, dissolve.
19:07Hey, break, master.
19:10Breaking news on the Hantavirus outbreak.
19:12We are about to speak to Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, and we'll show you him right there, live.
19:17You may recognize his face.
19:19He's been on this show before because he joined us from the cruise ship last week before it
19:23docked.
19:24He was the doctor who sprang into action after passengers became sick.
19:27He helped the doctor on board, who ended up being evacuated off the ship.
19:31He was taking care of people, a hero for many.
19:34And tonight he is telling us that he is the American passenger who had tested positive and
19:39is now the only person isolated in the biocontainment unit at the University of Nebraska Medical
19:44Center.
19:44And he's breaking his silence here exclusively out front.
19:48Dr. Stephen Kornfeld is out front with me now.
19:51So, doctor, a lot to ask you about here with so many questions.
19:55But I guess let's just start with this.
19:57I know that right now you're awaiting results from a test, that you had taken another test.
20:03So let's just start with you look good.
20:05How are you feeling at this moment?
20:08I feel great.
20:09I feel wonderful, 100%.
20:13All right.
20:14So do you know when you expect to get the test results?
20:16I think it's interesting that obviously there's a, it's not as if like a COVID test where you
20:20get an immediate result here with this sort of test.
20:24Yeah, there's a number of test results, both PCR and serology.
20:30Some of them were sent to the CDC.
20:32So everything takes a little time.
20:34I think I'll have some of the tests tomorrow and maybe the rest on Friday.
20:39All right.
20:40So now let's just understand the situation here.
20:42Anyone who has been watching this show knows who you are.
20:45But just to remind people, you were on board the ship.
20:48You're an oncologist, but you were just there as a civilian, right?
20:51You were there.
20:52And when someone became sick, you offered the doctor on board your assistance.
20:57You helped when he became sick, you helped with his care and others.
21:00So you helped a lot of people.
21:03Uh, but obviously that means perhaps you were around the virus.
21:06So I remember you told everyone on this show, you said, look, if they're going to have extra
21:09scrutiny on me, I understand that.
21:11Okay.
21:12So can you walk me through when you were tested initially and what these test results were?
21:20Because this is, if anyone is following this, you're the one who got the quote unquote mild
21:24positive.
21:29So a lot happened very quickly on the boat, but it was decided that a number of staff members
21:35of myself would get nasal swabs done and put away in the freezer.
21:40And that's what happened on the third, fourth, fifth and sixth of May when the two gentlemen
21:47got evacuated back to the Netherlands, at least the samples from the third went with
21:54them.
21:54And those were tested in the Netherlands for Hanta virus.
21:59They did it in two different labs.
22:02One lab was negative and one lab was faintly positive.
22:06So I was told the test was intermediate, but I think since it wasn't a negative, it's sort
22:15of being looked at as a potential positive and the Dutch authority communicated these results
22:21to the CDC.
22:23And here I am.
22:25And well, I think it's important you just explain that because I know there was a lot
22:29of speculation when people heard about this mild positive where people were saying, well,
22:34you can't just, you know, it's like a pregnancy test.
22:36What's a mild positive.
22:37And I guess, you know, putting that skepticism aside, doctor, there is something to be said
22:43for this, that you had one negative and one quote unquote mild positive that could have
22:48either meant, I suppose, uh, that you were about to get sick, but here you are 10 days
22:54later talking to me asymptomatically, uh, or you had already been sick and we're getting
23:00better, right?
23:03Both are possible.
23:05I like the latter because that would certainly be good news for myself, uh, but it's still
23:10possible that that test represents evolving disease and I will get symptoms down the road.
23:17This is why I'm in the biocontainment unit.
23:20I'm not ill, but the term I hear a lot is abundance of caution.
23:26I'm here to be monitored closely.
23:27And this is a very secure facility.
23:30So if I am to get sick and spill virus, there's no way that virus is getting out of, out
23:37of
23:37this building.
23:38Right.
23:38If, if, if, if you have it.
23:40So a few things here, I want to talk to you about the building and the facility, because
23:43that's really important.
23:44But first, when you were on board the ship and you were caring for sick passengers who
23:50it turned out, uh, were very ill with Hantavirus, one of whom was, was evacuated.
23:55And of course the original gentleman and then his wife ended up dying.
24:00You did have symptoms, right?
24:02From what you've described to me that, that at the time, maybe you thought were, could have
24:07been a lot of things, but they included chills and, and what else?
24:10I mean, what kind of sickness did you have?
24:14Well, early in April, maybe the 10th or so, a number of us on board came down with, felt
24:22like a flu like illness or the ship's flu.
24:25I had three days of night sweats, a lot of chills, some mild respiratory and a lot of fatigue.
24:32And while the night sweats and the respiratory stuff cleared up pretty quickly, the fatigue
24:38lingered for two and a half weeks.
24:39I was still able to do all the ship activities.
24:43And eventually I became completely asymptomatic at the time.
24:47It was felt like this is just some virus.
24:50And now in retrospect, there is a question, could it have been Hantavirus, but it's just
24:55speculation.
24:56There's no way to really know.
24:58And while people talk about all these different serology lab tests that should be capable of
25:05answering that, what I hear from the experts who I'm seeing daily is that the lab tests
25:10may not be that straightforward to interpret.
25:13So it may never be known if that illness, which others also had, was Hantavirus or the
25:19typical virus that circulates through a cruise boat.
25:24Right.
25:24And obviously important.
25:26You don't know.
25:26I will.
25:26I will emphasize again, though, doctor, of course, you were taking care of people who
25:32subsequently were known to have Hantavirus.
25:33So even though, and I know you've talked about all the precautions you were taking, you would
25:37have been present with people who were very ill in a way that perhaps others on the ship
25:42that you're also saying had what appeared to be a similar sickness as yourself around
25:47that time may not have been.
25:49You know, that your contact would have been more direct and prolonged than theirs would
25:53have been.
25:55Absolutely.
25:56I had two contacts.
25:58I had the contact that everybody else on the boat had early in April when the gentleman
26:03who was sick was around us and socializing with us.
26:07And then I had the contact in early May with the sick people.
26:11Now, maybe I'd already had the disease or maybe I hadn't.
26:16There's a lot of speculation, but I had two different contacts, which certainly puts me at
26:21higher risk.
26:21Okay, but to be clear, what you're saying is when you were taking care of sick people
26:25was after you yourself had had this virus, which came after you had had more social contact
26:32with the man who ended up being very ill.
26:33So I guess as you look at this as a doctor, and I know you're not a virologist, an immunologist,
26:38I understand that, but does this open your mind to more casual contact or airborne transmission
26:46being possible?
26:48Well, that gets to be very speculative.
26:52And a shipboard situation, especially a small boat, while I didn't have direct intimate
27:01contact with the original patient, a lot of us had frequent mild contact with each other.
27:08And I think there's going to be a lot of attention spent on what kind of contact does it take?
27:16I don't have the sense that suddenly this virus is more communicable than people realize.
27:21I don't know.
27:22So it just may be that our contact, while not intense at any one time, was repetitive enough
27:30that that allowed transmission.
27:32Which which which which does raise questions, right, because that would be repetitive, but
27:36over many different separated points of time, as opposed to one long, prolonged contact.
27:42So I know that you're hoping to get results back from the next round of tests, that if they're
27:46negative, you could be allowed to return to where the rest of the Americans are there at the
27:50Nebraska unit in quarantine, as opposed to being essentially in solitary confinement, as in a
27:57biocontainment unit.
27:57When I'm just looking behind you here in the in the picture, I see sort of a whiteboard
28:01doctor, and I guess it looks a little bit like a hotel room.
28:06Can you tell us about what that room is like where you are and what what it's like to be
28:10in there alone?
28:12Well, the room is a hospital room.
28:15It looks just like any other hospital room anywhere in the country.
28:19It's got the usual equipment and a very comfortable hospital bed.
28:23I think all of the biocontainment is that multiple layers outside of this room, the many
28:30doors and the clean room and the places where people dispose of things.
28:35So the biocontainment is really outside the room.
28:38Plus, it's a negative pressure room.
28:40That's a little weird being in here by myself.
28:44But the nurses come in.
28:45The doctors come in.
28:46I'm on WhatsApp all the time.
28:47It's really amazing how quickly time flies many weeks of this.
28:53Well, we'll see how that goes.
28:55Right.
28:56OK, when you talk about that room, the negative pressure room.
28:59But can I just ask you one final thing?
29:01So when they come in, I mean, I guess it must feel a little odd to you.
29:04Are they basically in in suits?
29:07They're they're in full hazmat gear or proper protective gear.
29:12And I just see a pair of eyes.
29:14And then later on, when I see their face on the screen, because we do a lot of it through
29:19telly, I don't even recognize them until they start talking.
29:24Wow.
29:25All right.
29:25Well, Dr. Kornfeld, I appreciate your time and taking the time to walk through all of
29:29this.
29:29And obviously, I know everyone is glad to see the incredible precautions being taken.
29:34Very glad that you have no symptoms.
29:35And we'll see if you do get that formal negative here in these next hours overnight.
29:40Thank you so much, Dr. Kornfeld.
29:43Thank you.
29:45And Joseph Allen is back with me now, professor at Harvard School of Public Health.
29:49So Dr. Kornfeld is the American in the biocontainment unit.
29:52There is only one.
29:53It is him.
29:54And you just heard him lay all that out.
29:56What do you hear when he talks about his test results and his interactions with the virus?
30:03Yeah, well, so first, thanks for having me back on.
30:06I hear two things.
30:07I think he's modeling good behavior in multiple ways.
30:10First, he was a good Samaritan doctor on board the ship who stepped in when the ship's doctor
30:14became ill, and he helped treat these people.
30:17Second, he's modeling great behavior on how you quarantine effectively.
30:20You don't hear him trying to get home or out in the public.
30:23We're at a point of this outbreak where we have a chance to control this.
30:27We don't have ongoing transmission.
30:29So I think what he's doing and what they're doing there is correct.
30:31In fact, all of the passengers, to me, are high risk.
30:34We don't want ongoing transmission.
30:35So I think he's modeling this correctly.
30:37What do you take away from the fact, two crucial things.
30:41One, that he said there was the very ill passenger, that he was with that guy socially before
30:46he was ill.
30:47Then Dr. Kornfeld was ill for a couple weeks.
30:50And he sounds pretty ill.
30:51Chills, night sweats, fatigue that lasted for weeks.
30:53He said others on the ship were as well.
30:54But that was before he cared for the people who were incredibly ill when he stepped in
30:59and cared for the doctor, right?
31:00So it was before that prolonged medical contact that he was very sick.
31:04We don't know if that was the hantavirus.
31:06It may well have been.
31:07But what does that timeline say?
31:09And then a mild positive.
31:11So I think it says a couple things.
31:13One is it's really uncertain what happened on the ship.
31:16We're still trying to figure out this puzzle, which gets back to what you and I have been
31:19talking about for a week now, is that we should be cautious here about how this is spread.
31:24You hear the prolonged close contact.
31:25There are some different stories here.
31:27We're not quite sure of the timeline.
31:28He's saying he didn't have that.
31:30It was mild but repetitive contact.
31:33Right.
31:34And we don't know if it was long duration, short duration.
31:35But we can go back to the on-land outbreak in Argentina in that we talked about the birthday
31:40party spread.
31:41Well, there was a guy at that birthday party who got sick.
31:44He eventually died, but not before he transmitted to his wife.
31:46She then transmitted to 10 other people at his wake.
31:51So she went to his funeral at the wake and transmitted to 10 other people.
31:54Short duration exposure.
31:55I think we're trying to figure this puzzle out, which means we should be a bit cautious
31:58about over-interpreting or making declarative definitive statements about what's happening.
32:03Yeah.
32:03No, absolutely.
32:04But also, as Dr. Kornfeld said, his situation, right, the abundance of caution and the layers
32:09and the negative pressure room and all of that, full hazmat suits, every precaution
32:13being taken.
32:14Professor, thank you very much.
32:15And next, polls are about to close.
32:18And it's fair to say it's one of the craziest races in the country right now.
32:22Democrats say the man running in their primary is a Republican plant.
32:25Now, the candidate denies it, but what if he wins?
32:29Plus, an Epstein survivor breaking her silence, calling out the DOJ for revealing her identity
32:33after she had successfully kept it a secret for years.
32:37Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw heard her story firsthand.
32:40He's next.
32:44Breaking news and Epstein survivors speaking out for the first time, Rosa sharing her story
32:49in an emotional hearing in Palm Beach today.
32:52Now, she was one of five victims appearing before Democrats on the House Oversight Committee.
32:56Rosa says she was 18 years old when she was recruited by one of Epstein's associates.
33:00She said Jean-Luc Brunel, who died in a Paris prison cell in 2022.
33:05Rosa said she met Brunel in her home country of Uzbekistan.
33:08She was an aspiring model.
33:10He owned a famous modeling agency.
33:13So he helped her obtain a visa, relocate to the United States,
33:16and then introduced her to Jeffrey Epstein.
33:20For the following three years, I was subject to ongoing rape.
33:29Jeffrey Epstein was under house arrest for the molestation of underage girls
33:36at the exact time he was abusing me.
33:41Horrific.
33:42After years of abuse, Rosa says she eventually reached out for help.
33:46She came forward anonymously as a Jane Doe.
33:49But then, her real name appeared throughout the supposedly redacted to protect victims Epstein files.
33:58I woke up one day with my name mentioned over 500 times.
34:12While rich and powerful remained protected by redaction, my name was exposed to the world.
34:17Now reporters from across the globe contact me.
34:20I cannot live without looking over my shoulder.
34:25Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw is out front now.
34:27He sits on the House Oversight Committee, so he attended today's hearing.
34:31And, Congressman, I appreciate your time.
34:33It's hard to hear her talk there, that she said she woke up
34:36and her name was mentioned over 500 times, 500 times after years of being a Jane Doe,
34:42after being anonymous, when we heard Todd Blanche say,
34:47we will do everything, we will protect every victim's name, this is about the victims,
34:51and her name appeared in there 500 times.
34:55What was it like to sit there and hear her tell her story today?
35:01It was very hard to hear Rosa's story today, but also inspiring to see her courage in sharing it.
35:09You know, her story brings together all of the terrible elements of the Epstein saga.
35:15She's recruited by Jean-Luc Brunel from Uzbekistan, where she lived in poverty.
35:21As she described it, came to the United States with probably a fraudulent visa that Epstein, Brunel,
35:27and Maxwell procured for her.
35:28They used that visa to control her.
35:32Epstein raped her repeatedly while he was serving his sentence from the sweetheart deal
35:39that Alex Acosta gave to him.
35:41That is what is so outraging about this.
35:44He should have been behind bars where he couldn't harm another child.
35:49Instead, he was raping Rosa and others.
35:52I think it's so crucial you say that, right,
35:54that she said this all happened while he was serving that,
35:58you know, being able to spend the days where he wished.
36:02Congressman, not a single Republican attended today's hearing.
36:05And I say that in the context of, obviously,
36:07some Republicans who have stood up tirelessly for the release of the full files,
36:11including Thomas Massey and Nancy Mace and at the time Marjorie Taylor Greene,
36:15Lauren Boebert, others.
36:18But why?
36:19Did anybody talk to you on your committee as to why they did not come at all to this?
36:25I know that Chairman Comer was aware of the hearing today.
36:29They certainly would have been welcome to attend.
36:32And you're right, as you point out,
36:33we have a handful of Republicans on the committee
36:35who have courageously been willing to take on even the Trump administration here.
36:39But most Republicans in Congress have not been willing to stand up for these survivors.
36:45And I hope that will change at some point.
36:47But I know that Democrats on the Oversight Committee and in Congress
36:50are going to continue to push until we get the transparency and accountability
36:53that Rosa and the other survivors deserve.
36:56So the former Attorney General Pam Bondi finally agreed to testify under oath.
37:01And she's scheduled to appear before your committee,
37:03I understand, later this month, May 29th, I believe.
37:06General Lisa Jones is another Epstein survivor.
37:08She talked today, and she talked about questions that she wants Bondi specifically to answer.
37:13Here is what she said.
37:16Who are we covering for?
37:18Like, you were willing to lose your job
37:24to cover up for these people.
37:26What do they have on you?
37:29Because I'd like to know.
37:31You're a woman.
37:32You're a mother.
37:34And you look at us.
37:35You couldn't even look at the survivors.
37:38So, what's your part in this?
37:44Do you think that these answer, that Bondi will provide these answers?
37:49Do you trust her to answer truthfully?
37:51And will Republicans be a part of that hearing?
37:56Republicans will be part of it.
37:58It will be a transcribed interview, unfortunately, not a deposition.
38:03So, while she won't be under oath, it still will be a crime for her to lie to Congress.
38:07One of the things that we as Democrats are pushing for is for this interview with Pam Bondi to be
38:12on video.
38:13We feel very strongly that the American people, especially the survivors, like one we just heard from,
38:19deserve to see Pam Bondi's responses, at least on video.
38:23It should be public, open for the world to see, but at least there should be a video after the
38:28fact.
38:28So, the country can judge for itself whether they think she's been truthful or fulsome in the responses that she
38:35gives to our questions.
38:35And I promise you, we will ask the questions that the survivors today asked us to ask.
38:41Congressman Walkinshaw, I appreciate your time and thank you very much tonight.
38:44As we have some more breaking news right now, polls are about to close.
38:48And they are about to close in what may be the most bizarre race in the United States this primary
38:53season.
38:54This is the Nebraska Senate race, and it could determine which party controls the Senate.
38:58So, it's absolutely crucial no matter how you look at it.
39:00But then, there's the crazy.
39:02So, stick with me.
39:03All right, let me show you a picture here.
39:05of a man named Williams Forbes.
39:07He's 79 years old.
39:09He's a pastor.
39:10He is running in the Democratic primary in Nebraska.
39:13Democrats, though, say he is not a Democrat.
39:15He's a Republican plant.
39:17They are pointing to things he has said, like this, which was revealed by our K-file.
39:24Dementia Joe.
39:28Right?
39:29Dementia Joe.
39:31Our president.
39:34You get it?
39:43So, he calls Joe Biden to mention Joe, talks about the lawlessness, and then he told K-file that he
39:49had voted for Donald Trump in multiple elections.
39:51So, you get the strangeness here.
39:53When CNN asked Forbes about being a Republican plant, though, he denied it, saying he filed simply because no other
40:00Democrat was on the ballot.
40:01But that is because Democrats in Nebraska have gotten behind an independent in the race named Dan Osborne, hoping that
40:09because he's an independent, he will be able to unseat Republican incumbent Pete Ricketts.
40:13In fact, the woman running against Forbes in the Democratic primary, Cindy Burback, has already pledged to immediately drop out
40:19and back Osborne in the general election.
40:21All right?
40:22So, that's part of the, she went on there to check the box, there's a Democrat, but all the support
40:26was going to go to that independent.
40:27So, I'm here with Harry Enten, here to tell us something else we don't know.
40:29Okay, this is a really crazy story, and it'd be crazy no matter what, but this race is so crucial
40:37for control of the Senate, Harry.
40:38So, you know, the Democrats are behind an independent because this is a state that Trump had dominated overall.
40:45Yeah, who's on first, Erin Burnett?
40:46Look, the bottom line is this.
40:48You go back to 2024.
40:49Osborne, the independent, ran back in 2024.
40:52He only lost by seven points.
40:54Kamala Harris lost by 20 points.
40:56Osborne vastly outperformed Kamala Harris' baseline in that state, right?
41:02And then you jump ahead to 2026, which is a far more, let's say, bad year for Republicans.
41:07The idea that you could get a Republican defeat and, let's say, get an independent, that is not something that
41:12is up there in the sky.
41:13That's a realistic possibility if Osborne gets that one-on-one.
41:17And also because you're saying as an independent, right?
41:20Correct.
41:20That's why that whole thing is so important.
41:21Okay, so when it comes down to the Senate and who wins,
41:24and obviously this race that we're going to see what happens tonight, this primary could be crucial,
41:29do Democrats win the Senate or not as you see it now?
41:32Yeah, this is why, one of the big reasons why this race is so important, right?
41:36It's a race to 51 seats if you're the Democrats, 50 seats if you're the Republican with Vance breaking the
41:40tie.
41:41According to the cash prediction market, what are the two most likely sort of seat outcomes for Democrats after the
41:46midterm elections?
41:47The most likely is 51, the second most likely is 50, so you're right there on the edge.
41:52One Senate seat can make all the difference in the world, and that's why Democrats want Osborne the Independent to
41:57be alone
41:58and not have a Democrat perhaps cipher votes from him.
42:01So tell me something else I don't know.
42:03I'll tell you something else that you don't know, Erin Burnett.
42:06And that is, that's not the only race we're watching in Nebraska.
42:08Look at Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District, right?
42:11You have Bacon, the representative, the Republican, he is going out.
42:15If you look at the Cook Political Report at this particular point, that race is lean Democrats,
42:19that little light blue shade right there around Omaha.
42:23Of course, that district was won by Kamala Harris back in 2024.
42:26Democrats are hoping it becomes a blue shade again come this November,
42:30and that, of course, gets them much closer to that 218.
42:33And I will note, unlike the seats, let's say, in California, this is not redistricting.
42:36This is just a seat Democrats think they can really pick up.
42:39All right, Harry, thank you very much.
42:41Thank you, my friend.
42:41We'll see you when those polls close tonight.
42:43And next, Russia claims that terrorists sank its ship
42:46that may have been carrying nuclear reactors for North Korea in the Mediterranean.
42:50Does that story add up at all?
42:52Well, guess what?
42:52Nick Payton Walsh is there on the shore
42:55at a special CNN investigation into the mystery.
43:00New tonight, a Russian cargo ship potentially carrying nuclear reactors to North Korea
43:04sunk off the coast of Spain.
43:07Unclear.
43:11Ask your doctor about SkyRizzi, the number one prescribed biologic in Crohn's disease.
43:17New tonight, a Russian cargo ship potentially carrying nuclear reactors to North Korea
43:22sunk off the coast of Spain.
43:24Unclear exactly what damaged the ship, though, and who damaged the ship.
43:29So Nick Payton Walsh is there, out front with this investigation.
43:37A mystery in the Mediterranean, the possible torpedoing of a Russian ship to stop the Kremlin
43:42handing submarine nuclear reactors to North Korea begins in a quiet Spanish port.
43:49This really is the craziest of stories about a Russian Shadow Fleet ship that sank off the coast
43:55here in the strangest of circumstances, whose Russian captain confessed to investigators here
44:00that it was carrying two nuclear reactors, possibly for a submarine.
44:04The URSA major ship loaded up near St Petersburg in early December 2024 on paper bound for Vladivostok
44:11with a cargo of two huge cranes and over a hundred empty containers.
44:15It made another stop, loading two large manhole covers.
44:19It set sail.
44:21A Shadow Fleet ship used by Russia in Syria, the Portuguese Navy followed it from above.
44:26You can see the blue covers here, until just before it ran into trouble in Spanish waters.
44:31Around noon the next day, it made a sharp deviation and issued an urgent call for help.
44:37The boat was listing this video shows film from a nearby tanker, but probably not going to sink too fast.
44:44The captain of the ship would later tell investigators he'd seen a 20 by 20 inch hole in the hull,
44:49the damaged metal facing inwards.
44:51He said it had been followed by three explosions on the starboard side of the boat, killing two of his
44:57crew.
44:58So the Russian military arrive in force and they tell everyone to stay two nautical miles away from their ship,
45:03the URSA major.
45:04But the Spanish know they need to conduct a rescue operation, so they send this ship to pick up 14
45:10Russian survivors
45:11who were brought back here, and that includes the Russian captain, who it seems starts to help investigators
45:18piece together some of what's happened.
45:20But it's hours later that day that the mood changes over the URSA major ship
45:26and the Russian military fire flares over it, and then a series of explosions follow,
45:33which Spanish seismic sensors picked up, and they send the ship to the seabed floor.
45:39Moscow demanded their crew back, but the Russian captain told Spanish investigators something remarkable.
45:45That the ship was carrying components for two nuclear reactors, likely for a submarine, he said,
45:52adding he could not be sure if the reactors had fuel in them.
45:55There's no evidence of contamination.
45:57He also told investigators he thought he would be diverted not to Vladivostok,
46:02but to North Korea's port of Rassan.
46:06Russia was in North Korea's debt at that time, after they sent 10,000 troops to help fight Ukraine two
46:12months earlier.
46:13And in December 2025, North Korea would claim to have built this, their first nuclear-powered submarine.
46:21Everything may have been on the bottom of the sea, but the Russians weren't done yet.
46:25And according to a source familiar with the investigation, about a week after the incident,
46:29a Russian research vessel called the Yantar, linked in the past to all sorts of allegations against Moscow,
46:35sat over the wreckage for about five days, and four more explosions followed.
46:40Possibly the Russians destroying what was left of the wreckage.
46:43In the months after, the U.S. may have shown interest in the site,
46:48twice sending a rare WC-135R Constant Phoenix,
46:52usually secretly sniffing out traces of nuclear activity in Russia's Arctic or over Iran,
46:57over the path of the Ursa Major, weaving low at 5,000 feet.
47:01One had flown a similar route 13 months earlier, perhaps suggesting its routine.
47:06The aircraft's U.S. base declined to provide any details.
47:10So why did the ship sink?
47:12The Spanish investigation said the first impact was likely from a projectile,
47:17called a super-cavitating torpedo, that fires air in front of itself to reach very high speed.
47:23Others suggested something simpler.
47:25Sounds like a limpet mine.
47:27It sounds like a shaped charge explosive that was placed against the hull by somebody or something.
47:34The Russian owners immediately called the sinking a targeted terrorist attack,
47:38but the secret of how this happened remains on the sea floor.
47:42Nick Payton-Walsh, CNN, Cartagena, Spain.
47:47Incredible mystery.
47:48And thanks so much for joining us.
47:49AC 360 starts now.
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