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Creative Types with Virginia Trioli - Season 3 - Episode 04: Nazeem Hussain
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00:06Nazeem, hello.
00:07Hello, Virginia. How are you?
00:08I'm really well.
00:10Well, this is a lot of fun
00:11because you're one of our most important comedians.
00:15Don't laugh.
00:16No, I love being called an important comedian.
00:20Well, because you say that you want to make the majority
00:23feel like the minority for one hour.
00:26That would be something that is in my mind.
00:27And I wouldn't normally want to let other people know about,
00:31but here we are.
00:32Too late.
00:33I mean, yeah, I think that's fun if you can kind of flip a dynamic.
00:38It's not that I go out looking for controversial issues to talk about.
00:42Like, I want to make people laugh.
00:44I want to have a good time.
00:45But comedy feels like the only tool I have at my disposal
00:49to make sense of this ridiculous world we're living in at the moment.
00:53Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you in action, Nazeem.
00:56Can't wait.
00:56OK, bye.
00:57Bye.
01:01I'm Virginia Trioli,
01:02and I've spent my life paying attention to creative Australians
01:06and wondering, what is going on in that wild mind of theirs?
01:12In this series, I'll showcase artists and performers
01:15at the peak of their powers
01:16and tell the story of their triumphs, their stumbles,
01:20and why they make the glorious work we love so much.
01:23Donuts for Nazeem Hussain.
01:26Nazeem Hussain is one of the biggest stars of Australian comedy,
01:30whose provocative shows have won international acclaim.
01:33Right, let the house just go now or we're coming in.
01:36Sir, please remain calm.
01:39For more than two decades,
01:40his audacious stand-up and sketch comedy
01:43has held up a mirror to society,
01:46revealing uncomfortable but hilarious truths.
01:49That's not even an insult,
01:50calling someone un-Australian.
01:52Like, everywhere but Australia and Bali is un-Australian.
01:56Don't you reckon?
02:03I'm thrilled to be unashamedly celebrating the art of making
02:07because we are a country of so many brilliant, creative types.
02:23Hey.
02:23Hey, hello, Nazeem, how are you?
02:25Good, how are you?
02:26Great to see you here.
02:27You're about to go in there and wow an audience.
02:30Well, that's the plan.
02:31Okay.
02:32I hope they've studied the refund policy.
02:34Because there is none.
02:38So we're heading to the powerhouse here.
02:40Have you played this joint before?
02:41This is honestly one of my top five venues in Australia.
02:44Oh, really?
02:44It is beautiful.
02:46It feels like a treat.
02:47And the acoustic, everything's great about it.
03:01What's your pre-show prep?
03:04The aim is to try and be chill, but I inevitably pace a lot and look at my notebook and
03:09feel like I need to cram more and more jokes and ideas.
03:13But in theory, just be chill and just act like I'm not thinking about the show.
03:17Speaker 1,ually, I'm not thinking about the show.
03:39I'm not thinking about the show.
03:46I mean, I think you're about to be chill.
03:50I like that ratio that is good I'll tell you a bit of personal news everybody I just became a
03:55dad
03:56everyone we had a baby boy we named him Yusuf Yusuf Muhammad Hussein now we named him that
04:03because we're trying to save money if I'm honest Disneyland is expensive no way he's getting on a
04:07plane with that name so when I see that was a solid hour of race jokes everyone gets skewered
04:16and yet every person there is absolutely laughing their guts out including me how do you manage that
04:22I think it's more just about moving the camera around and just sort of just letting everyone
04:27feel a little different for me making a joke is effective when there's tension to pop like when
04:33there's a when there's a bubble of expectation or people don't really know where something's going
04:37you know if there's a joke about brown people and white people are laughing yeah they get self-conscious
04:41and then it goes both ways everyone's sort of looking at each other figuring out like whether
04:48there's a lot of thinking going on it's race jokes within race jokes within race jokes which is a
04:54complicated and tricky little thing to land it doesn't always land a lot of the writing happens
04:59on stage and oh really yeah I think it kind of has to because you know you've got you might
05:04have an
05:05idea that's funny and yeah you can only figure it out on stage in front of an audience yeah and
05:10find
05:10out whether they're gonna laugh and meanwhile I can't sleep like I'm wide awake my friends are like
05:14just get noise cancelling headphones listen to white noise that'll help you sleep says all right
05:18well what's white noise like Coldplay do you mean and
05:23you can ask almost any comedian where's the line where's the line that you won't cross I don't know
05:28if I can I don't know if that matters to you that might be how it comes across like there's
05:33a you
05:33know there's a veneer of like I don't care I'll just say anything but but I am very conscious to
05:37not
05:37make fun of people who are routinely humiliated or do it in a way that doesn't like bring them in
05:43yeah because the audience will let you know it doesn't feel nice like it feels like a bully up
05:47on stage yeah there is definitely a line I think there is a responsibility if you've got a microphone
05:52he comes at it from his own perspective which is really important I suppose for him in a very small
05:57venue it would have been 50 seats maybe I remember me and my wife were the only white people in
06:03the crowd
06:04I was watching people I felt who hadn't laughed that hard in Australia before in terms of that
06:10they had some comedy made for them and I was like oh this is how white people feel every day
06:15and and
06:17it made me realize just how important representation is I found I found something called brown noise if
06:22you guys heard of brown it's like a real thing yeah it's like I found a three and a half
06:27hour track
06:27now put my noise cancelling headphones on I press play and I said welcome to brown noise and that
06:34is just my mum's voice you should have been a doctor you should have been a doctor you should have
06:37been a doctor
06:40I feel like the better I get a comedy or the more I do it the more comfortable I am
06:44with like
06:44playing the room and so yeah like if they're laughing I just keep going I'm not too I'm not shy
06:52to to milk
06:54something dry oh my goodness Nazeem was born and raised in Melbourne's Burwood the middle child of
07:19Sri Lankan migrants it's a surprise like a kinder surprise oh my god look oh a background rich with
07:27inspiration for his comedy this is the food that gets you into trouble when you're a immigrant kid
07:33in primary school I remember like opening my lunchbox and kids are like what the hell is that and I
07:37was
07:37like nothing just close it put it away I'm stuffed absolutely delicious and a nap
07:53Nazeem who's this cheerful happy little kid in this picture the only brown in the village yeah I think it's
08:00me at kinder I think I actually wanted to be a firefighter for a very short period of time most
08:05kids do yeah and then my mum was like no a doctor or lawyer well I want to bring your
08:11mum straight
08:11into the conversation here she is and that's you there and your sister and your dad because she
08:18she is central to of course your life but also your comedic life yeah it's sort of like a comedy
08:24origin story really your mum she kind of is I think like you know she's sort of represents like a
08:30bigger
08:30version of me you know um someone that's navigating between two worlds uh who doesn't know how to keep
08:38things in doesn't really navigate the subtlety uh that well and that's me I'm just all out she
08:47effectively raised us you know my dad left when we're I was about five or six so yeah single mum
08:52you
08:53know having to work several jobs uh navigate a different culture uh try to raise us as good
08:59Muslims with a Sri Lankan identity so she uh she really dialed up all aspects of her personality
09:04isn't there a story about her pulling in the former premier Jeff Kennett to the aid of her children yes
09:10my sister was getting bullied so my mum took matters into her own hands of course just uh went straight
09:15to the principal the principal didn't really have an intention of resolving the thing my mum then got in
09:19the car drove straight to the local MP's office uh who at the time was Jeff Kennett premier of Victoria
09:25had no appointment just walked in with her hijab she saw Jeff walks into his office the receptionist
09:30chased my mum my mum locked the door behind her spoke to Jeff Kennett 45 minutes later walks back
09:36into the principal's office with Jeff Kennett by her side Jeff's like just just do whatever this woman
09:40says or I just and then the bullying stopped so you know you can't wait for people to do things
09:45or say
09:45things for you she you know you just gotta front foot it so you're you're a kid who's getting bullied
09:52and learning to have a smart mouth to deal it back yeah very early on with kids that would make
09:56jokes
09:57about me I'd give it straight back and they would you know everyone would laugh at them sometimes it
10:00would cry but they would never mess with me again the laughter that I'd get when I'd tease someone back
10:04that was like a weapon so it's just like it wasn't I wasn't trying to find the hypocrisy I was
10:08trying to
10:08find the laugh so do we see this is the beginning of your comedic voice probably now that you know
10:14we're digging into that part of my childhood the kid who made his bullies laugh was on the cusp of
10:22becoming a confident young comedian community television offered him a defining opportunity
10:28we've got a new coffee maker well I tend to like making tea more than coffee but uh four years
10:34after 9-11
10:35while studying law and science at university Nazeem and some fellow Muslim friends put together a show
10:42on community television called Salaam Cafe this is surely not a permanent appointment what are you
10:47criticizing my favorite tasting it yes yes I am Salaam Cafe was a huge moment in my career it's
10:54probably where um well it's where television started for me a bunch of friends including
10:58Waleed Ali Susan Carland just talking about Muslim life I think in a way the show came about because
11:05you know it's post 9-11 we were in the news a lot Muslims yes not for good stuff surprise
11:10and sort
11:12of came from this frustration um about like let's just do a show that let's be on TV as people
11:18that
11:18we know but I had no filter I'd just say anything and do anything and then you'd get feedback so
11:23I
11:23learned that like oh there's an audience out there that don't all like you and you're going to hear from
11:28them articulately and so we would get these angry emails from people from Muslims saying that we
11:33shouldn't be making fun of the religion which we weren't I think I don't know and then non-Muslims
11:40were like stop trying to make Muslims not look like terrorists and pretend that you're not we
11:44know what you're really about so you couldn't win and so through that experience I sort of
11:48learned to develop a thick skin I guess like that you can't convince everybody it is day one of the
11:53race for Camden and I'm going to Camden to meet the people to press the flesh the halal flesh to
11:58see
11:58what makes them tick in a non-explosive type of way it was in these early days of Salaam Cafe
12:04that Nazeem created what was to become an enduring character in his comedy Uncle Sam we are here in
12:11Camden which will soon become a slam den tell me about the origin story of this particular character
12:19we were like we need a segment tomorrow we've got the deadline what are we gonna do I was like
12:23let's
12:23just go to Frankston and just interview some some bogans you know so we just went down there and I
12:28just started acting like an uncle and just getting all these crazy responses and we aired that and it
12:32went nuts is that like a papadum go talk to this boy he's by himself he must be Muslim because
12:40nobody
12:41liking him are you Muslim the character comes from just like many uncles that I've grown up around
12:48they just have this like beautiful view of the community and faith and they just want to share
12:54it with people so at a time when people were really like freaked out about Muslims this is probably when
12:59I enjoyed playing that character the most he's written to be as as kind of guileless and almost
13:05to be daffy like a daffy uncle but what's he trying to do turn Australian you know Sharia right
13:11actually try to introduce Sharia law into Australia and that's the gag I think the fact that Uncle Sam is
13:16quietly spoken and quite polite amuses me didn't he walk down the street and he'll talk to Australians
13:22who would patronize him and not realize that he was ripping the piss out of them it's just the most
13:28perfect satire well I think this is where this very this man who's very dear to you I'm a ramen
13:35comes in
13:36mm-hmm how old were you and you met each other teenagers I think like we would go to Muslim
13:42community events and you know when everybody else is trying to take things seriously we were not
13:48taking it you're sitting at the back making jokes and so it was kind of fun to meet someone who
13:53is
13:53also just as irreverent well you put together the the show that ended up being your breakthrough moment
13:59the two of you which is fear of a brown planet what's your name in the pink Victoria nice to
14:06meet
14:06you Victoria I'll take you on a date Victoria candlelight dinner I'd be sitting here gazing at
14:11you you'd be sitting there gazing straight back at me and my mom I was probably the more well
14:20definitely more palatable of the two of us like I was sugar and he was spice you know you either
14:25like
14:26him or you're like I can't do chili so he was yeah felt really exciting to be able to say
14:32your thoughts
14:33on a microphone to people that clap with you and laugh and it just felt really good for us
14:43after their early success in Australia Nazeem and Amer took fear of a brown planet to the tough
14:49judgments of the Edinburgh Festival you got a one-star review this morning which said amongst other things
14:57that we were a racist and that we weren't good enough comedians to write about coming from
15:03immigrants stock first couple of weeks it was brutal I think there's a one-star review I think
15:10one-star review we have like I can see I can see you fit oh it's like oh it's so
15:15I got so much to say
15:17about reviews but like so the worst reviews are the ones that actually make sense and you're like
15:20oh you're right right yeah oh I hate you though why'd you just tell everyone yes you know sometimes
15:26you need that pressure to to to cut the crap and just get straight to the yeah to the funny
15:31bits
15:31so I think was good the second half of the run there was an improvement and suddenly we sort of
15:37like
15:37started to figure out what made the show good and funny and yeah people started coming what were
15:44you learning so so what do you learn when you do stand-up night after night after night it's getting
15:49yourself away from the sort of easy laughs yes that makes you a better comedian let me get this
15:55right so for white people to go out and enjoy the company of other white people for that to happen
16:03you need to intoxicate yourselves is that in order for that to happen
16:13while Nazeem's comedy career was taking off he was working as a tax accountant
16:18at PWC but his dual life was about to come to a head call you called yourself a tax accountant
16:26Batman tax accountancy by day pretty much literally what by night comedian yeah like old I was walking
16:35to gigs with my suit on and my shirt and I'd be taking my suit off on the way sometimes
16:39I'm just
16:40like Batman and Lydia going on stage with like suit pants and a shirt like oh if I take off
16:44two buttons
16:44it kind of looks casual definitely very different worlds when you're at PWC you get an extraordinary
16:50opportunity from SBS yeah I sort of so why don't we just pitch this idea to SBS you know because
16:56that's
16:57the that would be the exact show that I want to do not thinking that they would say yes and
17:00then they
17:00said yes and I was like oh crap but I got a job well you you said like should I
17:05go what'd they say
17:06and so I was like look you know SBS have offered me this TV show but PWC is number one
17:11for me
17:12that's just you know I'll say no he's like wait wait they've given you your own show I'm like yeah
17:16he's like you've got to say yes you idiots like did you need to hear that I think I did
17:20that is a
17:20great thing to be told it was a pretty like it gave me a lot of comfort well I've got
17:24some
17:25legally brown here the SBS show and in this particular scene white man dancing so Matt O'Kine
17:34goes searching kind of almost almost in a sort of a furtive drug dealy type way yeah to be taught
17:40how to dance like a white man and what ensues is a cringing juicingly accurate representation
17:47of what it is like but of course in that kind of you know reverse racism way that you love
17:53to do
17:54you want to dance like a white man watch and learn
18:08he's sweating I actually pulled a neck muscle doing this
18:14yes notice his intense sex face and how his feet are constantly out of time with the music
18:19and the rest of his body it's like poetry white sneakers
18:26and then some river dance
18:33damn I swear you guys were white the way you were moving just then
18:36so what's the challenge of sketch comedy when you're doing that so when you're doing something
18:39like legally brown on SBS and you're having to churn it out you're working in a team I guess
18:43you're working with other writers oh it's like it is so much more I would say in many ways more
18:49difficult than stand-up because well you need to write the sketch as well so you've got to have
18:53a good team of writers good comedy actors or comedians you've got to have people that edit well
18:58and know how to get the timing right you've got to be able to say the things that you want
19:02to say
19:02and not be told off by the networks and if one of those elements falls over
19:06like it's just not funny and the audience doesn't know why
19:10he's one of a rare breed of comedian who can do stand-up and sketch comedy
19:14there are a lot of comedians who can only do one or the other and he can do both seamlessly
19:29Nazeem's comedy career can be hectic and unpredictable so he seeks out ways to find focus
19:45jiu-jitsu is this old martial art there's so much order there's a way things are done there's
19:51respect there's a hierarchy so it's the structure of my life where everything else is chaotic
19:58jiu-jitsu has completely upgraded my life like i'll go every morning at 6 30 and it's almost getting
20:05bashed every morning there's something about like being physical where you are grappling to not get
20:12choked out or have your arm snapped off that it's like it unlocks the creative side of my brain and
20:17for the rest of the day i kind of ride that wave as a comedian who plays with risk nazeem's
20:29not afraid
20:29to make himself vulnerable in 2017 he took a bold step by appearing on i'm a celebrity get me out
20:38of
20:38here this powerful exchange was highlighted by the network as a key and highly emotional moment
20:45of nazeem sharing how the aftermath of the lint cafe siege affected his family so that was horrific
20:53and it was very frightening for a lot of people and my sister then texts me and she says nazeem
20:57she goes i'm scared to wear the hijab home because i think people are going to attack me
21:00and then throughout the day that hashtag started trending i'll ride with you non-muslims were
21:04volunteering to sit with muslims and make them feel more comfortable and then she then messaged me
21:09later on going no you know what i now feel comfortable and safe knowing that my fellow australians
21:14are willing to stand up and support me on public transport and that made me like it actually made me
21:21cry when that happened because that man wanted to divide australia he wanted us to turn on each other
21:26no he was a lunatic but what he did instead was make us come together the fly on the wall
21:31style
21:31of the production lent nazeem's very personal story an air of authentic self-revelation that struck
21:37deeply with his cast mates and the viewers it was a turning point it changed a lot of things for
21:45you
21:46didn't it that kind of show i felt like i didn't need to do any any more like explaining like
21:50i sometimes
21:51felt like to do a punch line on a joke about whatever i'd have to first prove to the audience
21:56that i'm with you and that look i you know i love australia too but this is something that i'm
22:00a bit
22:00annoyed with and then you know then you can get to the funny but after that show people were like
22:04oh we
22:04know this guy we love we know where his heart's at so you just get straight to the punchline they
22:07they they know one interesting so it's sort of kind of plowed the field it just made it so much
22:12easier to tell jokes
22:23ordinary australians can smell and see an underdog our government still hasn't got the message i reckon
22:28what might overwhelmingly pressure them to stop funding this genocide is maybe if we all just did
22:33something small just started ozifying the way we said gaza instead of calling it gaza we started
22:37calling it gaza and australians be like oh shit gaza's in strife quit someone call up bunnings let's
22:44organize a sausage sizzle your comedy has referenced palestine gaza and israel from day dot right from
22:51the very beginning did the events of october 7 make it harder for you to want to do comedy around
22:59palestine and gaza yeah it was definitely something that i didn't walk into like you know without
23:04thinking or overthinking and i took a lot of guidance and advice from people i trust um people who i
23:09know
23:10understand the landscape it's one thing that i always do um i don't just speak first and think
23:16second when it comes to big issues like that um so i'm lucky to be around some clever people in
23:222025
23:23nazeem released an excerpt from his totally normal show as an online special do you reckon we should
23:30make jokes about israel tonight all right called jokes about israel for 12 and a half minutes
23:37it's now become one of his most watched online clips israel doesn't let anybody leave they control
23:43everything that comes in food water medicine electricity it's like being in a relationship with r kelly you know
23:53does that punchline justify the speech well you had that repeated refrain where you say
24:00did the punchline justify the speech i found that really fascinating to watch a comedian clearly having
24:06to walk an absolute tightrope of i'm here to tell jokes but i'm here telling jokes about something that
24:12matters to me deeply and is an incredibly serious subject and divisive subject obviously merely mentioning
24:18israel or palestine or gaza is heavy and people are immediately tense then the jokes are like
24:23not surface level but they're easier to digest and it starts to get a little harder to to maintain
24:29the veneer of comedy around yes yes so by the end of that routine effectively like i'm laying on a
24:35punchline but it's almost just like to serve the mechanical purpose of justifying what i've just said
24:40you might not necessarily be setting out to change minds but have you ever had
24:44any jewish or zionist supporters come to you and say that you've changed their mind
24:50oh i've had a lot of jewish people um tell me that they love what i'm doing and support me
24:58and i've had people really kick up a fuss in the show um who have come to the show within
25:03the show yeah
25:04yeah um when i get on the israel material um but to be honest i feel like when there's someone
25:10in the
25:11crowd that does or says something yeah you know i've got the mic um it really brings the audience
25:16together so it actually improves the show right so it really gets the energy back up at the 50 minute
25:21mark
25:22i think it's great that he covers all those subject areas because you know a lot of people put them
25:27in
25:27the too hard basket i mean to some degree i do if i'm honest i think it's outside my specialty
25:33people understand nas has um an understanding of that situation to be able to talk about it if someone
25:42else did that heavy-handed and didn't have an affinity with it we wouldn't accept it it's his
25:49resume that says this material is safe in these hands i went to um rural country town here in
25:58queensland called capella and i got to the hotel there's a middle-aged woman standing there uh
26:02named barbara bleached blonde hair she had a cigarette hanging out of her mouth and she was holding my
26:07set list and at the bottom i had in big bold letters jokes about israel she looked really pissed
26:12off she's like is this yours i said yep you're a comedian are you i said yep my name's akmal
26:17and
26:20so she gives it to me as i'm walking off she goes oi akmal i said yeah and she puts
26:24a white fist in
26:25the air she goes free palestine and that just blew my mind that's how you know that israel's gone too
26:35far when even bogan queenslanders are like nah i'm with the arabs on these actually yeah
26:55so what's been the most unexpected response i had a palestinian guy who came to my show he's an
27:02artist he's from gaza and then afterwards he came out he said yeah i haven't felt like laughing um
27:07you know for the last couple of years and so yeah that was something that really made it to me
27:12yeah
27:15it's a good answer oh i understand how words can hurt also how words can have real life implications
27:23yeah um but i guess if i did have an intention it would be that my comedy brings us closer
27:30together
27:31and makes us understand each other more as opposed to like create a wedge where we're pushed further
27:36apart listen you guys been great thank you so much for coming i appreciate you coming out thank you
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