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00:00There's the Three Stooges and Cher.
00:04Lovely to see you all, Cher.
00:06Thank you. Thank you.
00:07Thank you for helping me up the stairs
00:09because I tripped on these pants for about ten times.
00:10And we did not want that to happen.
00:13Anyway, lovely to see you all.
00:14Cher, do you know any of these people on the couch?
00:16Um, yes.
00:17Josh.
00:20Josh.
00:20You know what, can I say what just happened?
00:22Tell your story, yes.
00:23Okay, so she just came backstage and she saw me
00:25and she went, oh my God, how are you?
00:27It's been so long and you're great.
00:29Thank you for doing burlesque.
00:30I had so much fun that day.
00:32And I was like, I've never been in burlesque.
00:35I don't know what that is.
00:35And then she came up to me afterwards and she goes,
00:37I thought you were your dad.
00:40But my dad's 130 years old.
00:44That's all mine.
00:49Michael and Kira, you know each other well.
00:51You've been in a film together.
00:52Yep.
00:52A Dangerous Method.
00:53Yep.
00:54Which was about Freud and...
00:56Jung.
00:58And...
00:58Yeah, and I...
01:00I played Sabina Spielrein, who was Jung's first...
01:03What was it, patient?
01:05Yep.
01:05Yes.
01:06Basically it was about spanking.
01:08Yes.
01:09It was really what, yeah.
01:10And Michael had to do a lot of spanking.
01:11Michael had to spank me.
01:12I was the spanker.
01:13Yeah.
01:14You were the spanker.
01:15Yeah, I was the spanker.
01:16Yeah.
01:17Which I imagine was difficult work.
01:19Er, well, you know, to get the right...
01:22Level of spank?
01:23Exactly.
01:23Yeah.
01:24You know, it can't hurt too much, I suppose.
01:26No.
01:27There was no contact, was there?
01:28No, it was contactless spanking.
01:30Oh, yeah.
01:31Why didn't you do that, actually?
01:32Bit like that.
01:34Acting.
01:34I think we were acting.
01:35There was a Yellow Pages between your bum and...
01:37There was a Yellow Pages and your bush.
01:39Yeah.
01:40Yeah.
01:40Isn't acting amazing?
01:41Isn't it?
01:43I bought you a present, though, at the end of that.
01:45The pedal.
01:46The pedal.
01:47I bought him his very own spanking pedal.
01:49Yeah.
01:49Signed by me.
01:50And it was also Viggo Mortensen was in it.
01:52It was a David Cronenberg film and I bought those two a pedal too.
01:55Oh, I thought I was the only one.
01:56No, you weren't the only one.
01:57I had to go into a sex shop and say, hello, could I have three spanking pedals?
02:02Wow, three, what are you going to do with those?
02:05Could you gift wrap them?
02:06Exactly, yeah.
02:08Now, the last time Keira Knightley was here, you delighted us by playing music using your teeth.
02:16Oh.
02:16Yes.
02:17If you did, honestly, Google it.
02:19Look, somebody's nodding.
02:19You remember this, don't you?
02:21Yes.
02:21If you saw it, you weren't going to forget it.
02:23Yeah.
02:23Now, I don't want to put you on the spot, because I know you haven't rehearsed this, but
02:27can you give us a blast of a Cher hit on your teeth?
02:32Oh, nice.
02:33Yeah.
02:34OK.
02:39I'll just crawl in.
02:40Yeah.
02:41I'll just crawl in.
02:41I'll just do that.
02:42OK, no, here we go.
02:43OK.
02:43No, wait, wait, wait.
02:44I need to be there.
02:45OK, what are we getting, though?
02:46What are we getting?
02:46Believe.
02:47Oh, OK.
02:47All right.
02:48I'll open.
02:49OK.
02:58She's hitting the nose.
03:00I did it!
03:00I did it!
03:01I did it!
03:02I did it!
03:02I did it!
03:02I did it!
03:04I did it!
03:04Thank you!
03:05Thank you!
03:06How do you know what you're doing?
03:08I don't know.
03:09I don't know.
03:09I learnt to do it.
03:13There was a kid at school who was cool, and he could do it.
03:16I mean, I heard you were doing the notes.
03:19Yeah.
03:19Yeah.
03:20It's one of those things.
03:20It's really clever.
03:22It's so pointless.
03:25I can only use it here.
03:26Yeah.
03:26But you got on your knees for it.
03:28Yeah.
03:29Chacho gold.
03:30Chacho gold.
03:30Ladies and gentlemen, it's a game of two halves tonight.
03:33We've got two memoirs and two spy fillers.
03:36So let us start with part one of Cher's much-anticipated autobiography.
03:41It's Cher, the memoir.
03:42It is out now.
03:43Yeah.
03:45And, er, so it's a fantastic read.
03:48I mean, it's a...
03:49I know, you said you actually read it.
03:50Yeah, I did.
03:51I did.
03:52Er, you suggest...
03:53Anyway.
03:55I did.
03:56I just thought...
03:57Yeah.
03:57But here's the thing.
03:58It's such a great story.
03:59Why wait?
04:00Or why do it now?
04:02I don't know.
04:03I don't know.
04:04There's no reason for anything.
04:05OK.
04:06Almost...
04:07Almost for anything I do.
04:10But are you pleased you've done it?
04:12Was it...
04:12What was it like looking back?
04:14It was OK.
04:15I mean, it was, um...
04:17It was interesting, but nothing...
04:21It's so strange.
04:22Everyone's saying, oh, did you go through the chaos and the blah, blah, blah?
04:24How did you feel?
04:25I didn't feel anything.
04:26I just remembered it.
04:28I wanted to do it.
04:29And I did it actually three times.
04:32The first time I did it with someone, it didn't work out.
04:34The second time, I didn't really want to tell anything.
04:39See what I mean?
04:40You just, like, start remembering stuff and you go, I don't want to tell that.
04:43I'm not telling that.
04:44Yeah.
04:44And then I thought, you know what?
04:47Either tell it or give back the money.
04:49Tell it or give back the money.
04:53And I see what you chose there.
04:55No, no.
04:56No, but then I thought, if I don't do it now, I will never do it.
05:00And I was thinking about women and girls.
05:03I mean, anybody could read it, but it's, it's, well, it's for anybody, I guess, but it is for people
05:09who need to know that whatever they want to do, they should try to do it.
05:14You should never give up.
05:15And I think that was my main thrust for wanting to do it.
05:18Yeah.
05:19And also because so much of the book is about, you know, this half and part one is certainly about
05:23you growing up and you discovering how to be Cher.
05:27Right.
05:28And the bulk of the book is meeting Sunny and the extraordinary success you had together.
05:34And I suppose what surprised me was one, how big Sunny and Cher were.
05:39I mean, you were properly huge music stars, but also how quickly it happened and here.
05:46Here.
05:46We had to come here to become famous because in America, we look different.
05:52And the parents, the children, you know, the young teenagers and stuff like that, they were all for it.
05:58But the parents would like call TV and they didn't want us to be on the shows.
06:01So Jack Good, who was a big producer here and Mick Jagger said, go, go to England because they will
06:10get you.
06:11And we came here and it was like within a couple of days, it was crazy.
06:15But you had this kind of weird, now you think, oh, that's a PR stunt, but it wasn't.
06:21No, no.
06:22With the hotel, I mean.
06:23No, no.
06:24They took one look at us.
06:25They had, you know, we just made a reservation.
06:27We walked in and it was like, whoa, no.
06:29And so they went, oh, we don't have a reservation for you.
06:32And then sent out his camera.
06:34And they did, of course, but they just were frightened to death.
06:37Well, now, in fairness, there's a picture of you outside the hotel.
06:40Um, they...
06:44Yeah, but those were on good clothes and we thought we looked pretty.
06:47And that was red, white and blue in honour.
06:50They should have been delighted.
06:51And that became a huge news story then.
06:53Yes.
06:54And is that what got you on to Top of the Pops and shows like that?
06:58Well, not exactly, because it was...
07:00It started out with, like, interviews and then everyone was...
07:03And also, we put out I Got You Babe Here.
07:05Oh, that was launched here, yeah.
07:07Which became number one...
07:09Knock the Beatles on it.
07:10Wow.
07:11Yeah.
07:16And it said to me it must be really hard because I didn't realise how dyslexic you are.
07:21Yes.
07:21So how did it work?
07:23What do you mean?
07:24Well, in terms of putting the book together and all of that.
07:27I can remember everything.
07:28So it put numbers in front of me, I have no idea.
07:31Someone has to add up my gin score.
07:32But I have numbers and I don't mix.
07:37When I was young, I got an F on my math test and I went,
07:41Mum, I don't see numbers.
07:43There was no dyslexia in those days.
07:45Mum, I don't...
07:46I don't know...
07:46I can't see numbers and I don't know how to do numbers.
07:49And she said,
07:50Don't worry, when you grow up, you'll have somebody to do numbers for you.
07:54And how right she was.
07:56Yes.
07:57Because, Kira, how young were you when you wanted an agent?
08:00I first asked for an agent when I was three.
08:02Wow.
08:03Good, right?
08:04Wow.
08:04Yeah, no, my mum's a writer, my dad's an actor.
08:07So I think, you know, I kind of knew what it was.
08:10I think they were calling the house and I just wanted one too.
08:12Yeah.
08:12And what age were you when you actually got one?
08:14Six.
08:17Yes, I was very persistent.
08:18Wow.
08:18Yeah.
08:19But actually, you know what, it's because I'm dyslexic.
08:21So what they found was they needed something to make me read and write
08:24and that was the thing.
08:25They said, well, get you an agent if you practice reading and writing.
08:27So that's what practice made me practice.
08:29Wow.
08:29Because, Josh Brolin, you were older than that, but how old were you
08:31when you got the Goonies?
08:33Nine months old.
08:3616.
08:37Oh, you were 16?
08:3816.
08:39I mean...
08:39That's the look of a guy who has no idea what he's doing.
08:44Literally.
08:44But what's amazing, and it's in the book, we'll talk about it later, but when you were
08:48that age, you weren't quite like other child stores, you had a criminal record already.
08:52Yes, sir.
08:53Which, I mean...
08:54I'm taking the share away right now.
08:57Yes.
08:58I did.
08:59I had already been to jail a couple of times and I left Santa Barbara's kicked out of my house.
09:05What did you do?
09:06You know you're the only person that's asked that?
09:09You're the only person who has the balls to ask that.
09:12I did something.
09:13I don't remember.
09:14Oh, bullshit.
09:15You're right.
09:18Anyway.
09:19It wasn't good.
09:20It got me to LA.
09:21I was arrested too.
09:22I was sleeping on my dad's couch.
09:24I came up with a resume that was 100% total false.
09:29It was a fallacy, horseshit.
09:32And I made up, like, theatres that were in Italy that I had done theatre in.
09:37And all of it was false.
09:38And then I went out and I got an agent.
09:39One said yes, even though I know they knew.
09:41I had to borrow $20 from them to get out of the parking lot because it was in Beverly Hills
09:45and I had no money.
09:46And I did probably 350 auditions before I got The Goonies.
09:51Wow.
09:51Wow.
09:52And I've heard you talk about how the director kind of didn't trust you as child actors.
09:56He wanted your first reaction to the big pirate ship.
09:58It was the biggest ship in all the studios.
10:01Warner Brothers has the biggest state.
10:03Yeah, there you go.
10:03Right there.
10:04And they filled it with water.
10:05Oh, wow.
10:06And the ship is practical.
10:07They would never do that today.
10:08But it would be digital or it would be this.
10:10But it was a practical ship.
10:12So we did the film for four months.
10:14They didn't show us the ship for four months.
10:16They didn't want us to see it.
10:17They had security and all that.
10:19And then they opened the door finally when they wanted that organic reaction of the ship.
10:24So they blindfolded us.
10:26They backed us all in.
10:27They put us in the water and they said, this is what we're going to do.
10:30You get under the water.
10:31There was like one of those speakers in the water that was muffled.
10:34And they said, we're going to say three, two, one.
10:37You lift up, turn around and all the cameras will be on you and you'll get an organic reaction.
10:42So we go, okay.
10:43And we go into the water and you hear, three, two, one, go.
10:47And we all went up and we turned around and I looked at it and I went, fuck.
10:54And Dick Donner went, no.
10:58No.
11:02The jailbird came out.
11:05Michael there, not a wild child at all.
11:08The opposite.
11:08Yeah.
11:09You were an old boy, weren't you?
11:10Head older boy.
11:11Oh.
11:12That's a big deal.
11:13What happened?
11:16Yeah, but it was, it was, it was great.
11:18It was kind of my first taste of being on stage actually.
11:21Because is this, this isn't in the chapel, I don't think.
11:24No, that's me playing accordion.
11:25Wow.
11:26That was at a festival, a flat.
11:28I can't remember where.
11:30Because it strikes me, was that man your nemesis?
11:33He's really like, he's giving you the evils.
11:35He's one of the bullies, those two guys behind me.
11:38What happened after the picture is not so pleasant.
11:41No, the accordion is literally almost bigger than me.
11:44I remember lugging that round.
11:46I actually wanted to play the violin.
11:47It was that classic thing of like, well, there's an accordion in the family.
11:50You know?
11:51Play this.
11:52My dad played it before me, literally.
11:54Oh, okay.
11:54So yeah, I played, played accordion before.
11:56Could you play it?
11:56Were you good?
11:57I, I mean, the problem with me is I never learned how to play those little black buttons on the
12:01left.
12:01Yeah, yeah.
12:01I could play the melody on the piano.
12:04It's not like, it's not like Kira's teeth is what he's saying.
12:06No.
12:07And Cher, there's this extraordinary bit, which I didn't know about, that before the Sonny and Cher comedy hour and
12:14all the success of that, Sonny and Cher were kind of gone.
12:17They were finished.
12:18Right.
12:18We owed the government $270,000 because we had no, who knew about money?
12:23We were just making it, but we had no idea what to do with it.
12:26And then all of a sudden the record started dive bombing and, and we had to go start playing like
12:33horrible places.
12:35Like bar kind of places, you know?
12:38Yeah.
12:38No, but like the tiny crowds having played stadiums.
12:41Yes.
12:41We were playing arenas and then we were playing like one night, we played a show for four people.
12:46And, um, and they were drunk, so it didn't make any difference.
12:50But yeah, it was pretty terrible.
12:52It was terrible.
12:53But Sonny one day said to me, give me two years and you will be more famous than you ever
12:58dreamed possible.
12:59And pretty much two years to the month.
13:02Wow.
13:02There's a great quote in the book that it's harder to come back than to become.
13:07Yes.
13:07When did you figure that out?
13:09Many times.
13:11Yeah.
13:11I, I, yeah.
13:13I was, oh God.
13:14That happened so many times I can't tell you.
13:17And now I'm an icon and a legend.
13:18Yay!
13:24It's a great book and we'll come back to you during the show for kind of more stories and things.
13:29But right now, let's move on to Michael Fassbender's new series.
13:32It's called The Agency.
13:34The first two episodes drop tomorrow night on Paramount Plus.
13:38Let's start with a clip.
13:40Check this out.
13:40You are a CIA agent.
13:42You've been away for six years, back to London and your family.
13:45And this part was kind of meant to be because you, you came across this project.
13:49How many years ago?
13:49Five, six years ago?
13:50Yeah.
13:51There was the, the original series is a French series called Le Bureau.
13:54Um, and it's, I think it came out in 2015, but Alyssi and I watched it.
14:00Um, I think in 2020 or 2019 and we love the series.
14:04It's great.
14:05And I, and I was like, wow, that's such a fascinating character.
14:08And I thought, I wonder what I could do with that.
14:10And then just at the beginning of this year, um, producers called up and said,
14:14they were doing a remake.
14:15Would I, would I be interested?
14:16And I read it.
14:17And the Butterworths, um, Jez and John Henry wrote the script and Joe Wright was directing.
14:24And we started to get this amazing cast.
14:26So it was, it was pretty quick decision.
14:28And apparently you talked to real spies, which fascinates me because already they're quite
14:33bad at their job.
14:34If you're, if you.
14:35Well, it's funny because up, before all of this, I was always fascinated about who might
14:40be a spy.
14:41And I feel like I've bumped into quite a few.
14:43I think a lot of spies, you know, are, are sort of just dying to tell you they're a spy.
14:49You know what I mean?
14:50They've got to keep this in the whole time.
14:52They're like, I do this stuff.
14:53I want to tell somebody.
14:54And so a lot of the spies actually watched these series, you know, um, and they're very
14:59interested in them.
15:00Yeah.
15:00And, uh, and so I spoke to, you know, the original ones and they were like, yeah, the
15:03original series is great.
15:05And I was like, yeah, I know.
15:07And the guy playing, uh, Malatru is great.
15:08And I was like, yeah, I know.
15:11Um, and so he, you know, I was very much interested in, you know, why does somebody join the CIA
15:20to become an agent like that?
15:22And I think it's a lot of idealism.
15:23Um, so you go in, you know, at an early age, whatever it might be, I thought, you know, 9
15:29-11
15:29would have been a good, you know, reason for, for this guy to join up.
15:33Yeah.
15:34But then where is he 20 years later when you've had to do things, you know, pretty murky stuff.
15:38And where's your moral compass?
15:40And, uh, Richard Gere, the great Richard Gere.
15:42Amazing.
15:43Is it?
15:43Which must be wild.
15:44It was amazing.
15:45Yeah, yeah.
15:46You know, he was just sort of sitting there.
15:47I was doing a scene with him.
15:48And I had this actually in the film that we did, Jonah Hex, not with you.
15:52No, no, you had it as well with John Malkovich.
15:58Oh, that's right.
15:59You know, when I was just sort of in a scene with John Malkovich and I was just sort of
16:03looking,
16:03I'm like, I'm in a scene with John Malkovich.
16:05Yeah.
16:05And I had moments like that, for sure, with Richard Gere.
16:08I mean, he's amazing.
16:09And you filmed in Battersea Power Station, that big new shopping centre there.
16:12Yeah.
16:12And very excitingly, you met a celebrity.
16:16I did.
16:17Yeah, I was there with India Fowler, who plays my daughter.
16:20She's incredible.
16:22One to watch out for in the future, for sure.
16:25And we were standing, we were getting ready, you know, for action.
16:28The camera was far away.
16:30And Jedward came up.
16:32I can't...
16:32I don't know.
16:33I don't know which one it was, you know.
16:37And India didn't either.
16:38India, there we are, yeah.
16:40There's you with John Malkovich.
16:41Jedward.
16:41Yeah.
16:43Are you familiar with Jedward?
16:45No.
16:46They've been to your house.
16:48Well, that's one of them.
16:50And very sweet, you know, really, really nice guy.
16:53And India was like, oh, my God, it's Jedward, it's Edward.
16:55And then it was like, action.
16:57And we had to sort of went into the scene.
16:59But, yeah.
17:00Now, I know you're good fans.
17:01Tell us the story about meeting the little boy who recognised you as Magneto.
17:05Do you know the story I'm talking about?
17:06Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:09I always like to have, you know, a car standing by and car keys.
17:13No, I just happened to have that this time, you know, and this kid came up to me,
17:16he was like, Magneto, Magneto, he was like, do something.
17:19So I had the car key, of course, in my pocket and I just hit the boot door,
17:23you know, I was like...
17:24LAUGHTER
17:28That was cute.
17:29Yeah.
17:31Then I threw him in the boot.
17:33Did he feel it?
17:34Did he feel it when you did that?
17:36Oh, yeah, yeah.
17:38He was like, do it again.
17:40I was like, can only do it once.
17:41LAUGHTER
17:42It's very tiring.
17:43I could shut it.
17:44Recharge the magic.
17:46But I'd have to do that manually.
17:47That doesn't work.
17:49He's like, close it now, close it.
17:51Get away.
17:52Go away.
17:53Because Josh, I mean, you're a Marvel villain,
17:56so do you get kids coming up to you because of that, or...?
17:59He will look.
18:00Do I look like that?
18:01No.
18:02Oh, yeah.
18:03Around the eyes.
18:03No, but they...
18:05They strangely come up to me a lot.
18:07I think more than any other movie.
18:10And I still don't understand why.
18:13Because my chin looks like a...
18:15From that, they come up to you?
18:16Yeah.
18:16That is worrying, isn't it?
18:17The chin looks like a scrotum, which I don't...
18:20LAUGHTER
18:20You know, the eyes are really close together.
18:23Maybe the tiny nose.
18:24It might be the tiny nose.
18:25LAUGHTER
18:26I don't know.
18:27It's really disturbing.
18:28Are they pleased to see you?
18:28Well, they want me to snap.
18:30Do you know what I mean?
18:31Everybody wants me to snap.
18:32They want me to destroy half the...
18:34No, snack.
18:35LAUGHTER
18:36No.
18:36I did snack.
18:37As you can tell.
18:39Since then.
18:40LAUGHTER
18:40No, they want me...
18:41Yeah, they want me to snap.
18:42They want me to disintegrate half the universe.
18:45That's...
18:45Wow.
18:46But they do...
18:47You know, I did go...
18:47Have you ever been to it?
18:48Not as easy as opening the boot of a...
18:49Nope.
18:50None of that.
18:51Did you ever go to a Comic-Con?
18:53Yes, I did.
18:53Yeah, that's tough.
18:55I really enjoyed it.
18:56Did you really?
18:57Yeah.
18:57Yeah.
18:58I mean, it's...
18:58They're fans.
18:59They're true fans, which is great.
19:01But then the fan will come up and very seriously say,
19:04did you ever realise...
19:05I'm sorry to bother you, but did you ever realise
19:07that if you could...
19:08If you had the power to kill half the universe,
19:10you probably also had the power to create twice the resources?
19:14Good...
19:15Yeah.
19:15Super smart.
19:17Yeah.
19:18Annoying, but...
19:19And then you're like,
19:19MIX!
19:20I did one in Kuwait.
19:21Did you do one in Kuwait?
19:22Yeah, yeah.
19:23Comic-Con in Kuwait.
19:24Yeah.
19:24Good to know.
19:26I'll make a note.
19:30Now, Kira, your fans...
19:33Is it...
19:33Is love actually the thing that most people...
19:36Well, I'm...
19:37Yeah.
19:39But...
19:39No, love actually is the one that people do the signs at me.
19:42Or rather one particular...
19:43I was...
19:43I was in my mum's car.
19:44My mum has this really embarrassing.
19:45She doesn't have it anymore, thank God.
19:47It was this horrible yellow car.
19:49And I was really embarrassed being in it.
19:50And we were stuck in traffic.
19:51And this car next to me, it was full of builders
19:53and they, you know, doing that.
19:55And then they held up.
19:57They did basically the entire scene from Love Actually
20:00with the things.
20:01Which was kind of creepy and kind of sweet.
20:03You know, a bit like the film.
20:04I mean, a bit like the...
20:05The scene in the film.
20:06The scene in the film.
20:06Just creepy and sweet at the same time.
20:08They were nice.
20:09It was just...
20:10I couldn't get away.
20:11It was like we were very stuck in traffic.
20:13But were they following you for a long time?
20:15No.
20:15We were just stuck...
20:16Completely stuck in traffic.
20:17So they were next to us for, I think, probably a good hour.
20:21No.
20:21So it was like...
20:22It was horrible.
20:23I don't know if they ever have the cards.
20:25No, but my...
20:25Well, no.
20:26I think they wrote...
20:26I don't know how they actually...
20:27Good point.
20:28I mean, we were all stuck there for a while.
20:29Maybe they went out, bought the cards, came back.
20:31Pre-prepared.
20:32Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:33And Cher, back in the 60s, it sounds like fans then...
20:37I mean, they had no boundaries.
20:39I guess Beatlemania kind of set the standard of how wild fans would get
20:43and invade the stage and things.
20:45Right.
20:46Like, wasn't there one where...
20:48LAUGHTER
20:49They were...
20:50My favourite song all the time.
20:52...Satcho Gold...
20:53LAUGHTER
20:55No, I like the one where I think fans of Sonny and Cher,
20:58but the girls were dressed...
21:00They looked like you.
21:01Yes.
21:02And then they stormed the stage.
21:03Yes.
21:04Wow.
21:05And Sonny...
21:05OK.
21:06LAUGHTER
21:07I didn't like the story you picked and I don't really remember
21:09that much about it.
21:10Say it again.
21:11LAUGHTER
21:12I think it was because it's not interesting.
21:14LAUGHTER
21:20It was just about fans.
21:21It just seemed like what we were talking about.
21:23It was...
21:23I'll tell you one thing.
21:24Sonny used to keep his money in his moccasin and on stage,
21:27you know, kids did, like, they'd grab your clothes,
21:31they'd rip your clothes off and...
21:32And so one time, we're, you know, on a gig at the Cow Palace,
21:37I think, and Sonny got too close to the stage
21:41and this girl started pulling his...
21:42Pulling his moccasin off and he's hopping,
21:45trying to get his moccasin off and he's hopping,
21:45trying to get his other foot back there because he doesn't
21:47want his money stolen.
21:48So, I mean, they would do...
21:50I mean, kids were just so excited and I guess, you know,
21:54they just wanted to get a part of you.
21:56I love that you put money in a moccasin.
21:58Because he was...
21:59The combination of the two...
22:00No, because...
22:01Sonny.
22:03LAUGHTER
22:05Funny, funny.
22:05All right, Michael, the agency.
22:09Meanwhile, Keira Knightley is kicking ass in Black Doves.
22:13This is streaming on Netflix from December the 5th.
22:17So, this is you and Ben Whishaw.
22:20What can you tell us about?
22:23It's another spy thing.
22:25My spy thing's better than your spy thing.
22:28LAUGHTER
22:29Yeah, it's...
22:30So, I play Helen Webb, who's a deep...
22:32Well, she's married to a Tory politician,
22:35but in fact she's a deep undercover spy
22:37and she's selling government secrets.
22:39She's actually been having an affair
22:41and her boyfriend gets murdered in the first bit
22:44and then her best friend, who's an assassin,
22:46comes back and we go on a kind of mission of revenge,
22:50mayhem and murder.
22:51And...
22:52And you really do.
22:54APPLAUSE
22:54Yeah, we really do.
22:55APPLAUSE
22:58But...
22:59What's interesting is, like, the morality in this is...
23:02No, I may be...
23:03I mean, he's a...
23:03I'm assuming you're a goodie.
23:05Are you a goodie?
23:05What is good in this world?
23:07Well, that is...
23:08That is quite good.
23:09So, that's a major question in ours.
23:11Yeah, it really is a major question.
23:12I don't think...
23:12I may be the baddie.
23:13I mean, I do definitely shoot...
23:15I mean, I'm betraying my husband selling government secrets
23:17and shooting people in the head.
23:19I may be a sociopath.
23:20Right, yeah.
23:20I like to do.
23:22I...
23:22Very, very well.
23:23Yeah.
23:24Is it true that originally you weren't meant to be
23:27as kind of hands-on fisticuffs?
23:29No.
23:29So, originally, it's lovely Ben Whishaw,
23:31who is playing the assassin,
23:32and he is the assassin in it,
23:33so I was like, great, I don't have to do very much,
23:35I can just kind of look spiky, you know,
23:37and he'll do all the work.
23:38So he gets to shoot lots of guns,
23:39and then they gave another draft of it,
23:41and it's like, suddenly I'm shooting all the guns,
23:43and I thought, okay, you know, that's still not too much, fine.
23:45And then there's another draft,
23:46and suddenly I'm doing knife fighting,
23:48and there's jiu-jitsu,
23:49and suddenly I'm doing...
23:50So suddenly I went from going,
23:52oh, this is going to be easy,
23:52and we're shooting in London,
23:53and it'll be lovely,
23:54and suddenly I was training a lot,
23:55and, you know, I'm on the school gate,
23:57and people are like, hey, what are you doing at the moment?
23:59And I'm like, I'm fighting.
24:01I'm fighting all the time.
24:03Yeah, so there's lots of fighting.
24:05There is.
24:06Well, let's see some.
24:07This is a clip.
24:08Here is a taste of Keira in Black Doves.
24:12It's a...
24:13That's a messy day at work.
24:14It was a messy day at work.
24:15And the other thing was that, you know,
24:17it's television, so we shot it all very quickly,
24:19and so the blood was like...
24:21The blood splatter was the last five minutes of the day,
24:23and everyone was rushing,
24:24and I came in and I had this lovely...
24:26I looked really good.
24:27You know, like a lovely little bit of blood there.
24:29It was like, that's great.
24:30And the director kept saying,
24:31more, more, more,
24:32and by the end of it,
24:33I'm looking like Carrie.
24:35And, of course, we didn't know,
24:36so there was nowhere for me to wash it off.
24:38So I had to go home again to my children.
24:41I'm like, plastered, bright pink.
24:43Hello, darling.
24:44Mum, what happened?
24:45Well, somebody got shot in the head.
24:47Hello, darling.
24:48You know, it's hard to explain to a five-year-old.
24:50They're basically traumatised for life.
24:51It's fine.
24:52How did they spray it on your face?
24:54No, they didn't.
24:54They just...
24:55Everyone just gooed it all over me.
24:57It looked like a balloon just went in.
24:57Yeah, just like, exploded it absolutely everywhere.
25:00And is it hard to get off once you get hurt?
25:01It really was hard.
25:02I mean, I think I had it for a good couple of days.
25:04I was bright pink.
25:04You're meant to do it with shaving foam.
25:06Yeah, so I was sent home with shaving cream to kind of...
25:10But I think because it was all very last minute,
25:13I think it was a very...
25:14It was a deep red they were using,
25:16so there was a lot of dye in it,
25:17and I really was quite bright pink for a few days afterwards.
25:21But it looked great.
25:22Didn't it?
25:22Thank you, Cher.
25:25That'll be on the posters now.
25:27Yeah.
25:27Looked great.
25:28Cher.
25:34Let's move on because Josh Brolin has also written a memoir.
25:37This one's called From Under the Truck.
25:40It's out now.
25:41And it's a very different memoir.
25:44It looks structurally and things...
25:46I could have called mine Cher.
25:47No.
25:48Yes.
25:48The memoir part two.
25:50Or Josh.
25:50Part two.
25:52Josh is a criminal.
25:53Josh is a criminal.
25:55My life is a criminal.
25:55My life is a criminal.
25:57Josh Brolin.
25:59That would sell.
26:01Where were you as a ghost writer when I was writing?
26:04So how are you describing...
26:06Because it's beautifully written.
26:08But there's bits of prose, there's bits of poetry, there's screenplay...
26:11I mean, honestly, this is what comes to mind.
26:14It's a severe...
26:15Within the childhood and what I describe early on, maybe half the book,
26:19it's a severe chaotic vortex of a childhood with a mother that ran a wildlife weigh station.
26:25I grew up on a ranch about four hours north of Los Angeles,
26:29and she would take animals who had been illegally taken out of the wild,
26:32have those people jailed, and then either re-release them or find the most habitable zoo.
26:37The truth of the matter is, is that we were on the ranch, and we had to take care of
26:42those animals.
26:42So I've been cleaning cages of wolves and mountain lions and coyotes and all that
26:48since I was about seven years old.
26:50Now, if you have a parent who's telling you, go clean the cage, not a great parent.
26:57Little irresponsible to do that.
26:59So my brother got 60 stitches in his leg from a wolf.
27:02I got a few stitches.
27:04So in that chaos, when I see her talking and totally mesmerized,
27:10the positive of it is a very forthcoming woman.
27:14And it's true, she reminds me of my mother.
27:16You remind me, when I'm sitting here listening to you talk about the fun that you had
27:20and the craziness that you had in your trajectory, in your professional and personal trajectory,
27:26I go, that's what the book's about.
27:27Yeah.
27:27So if you want to read about her more than her book, read my book.
27:32Well sold.
27:35It's the truth.
27:36I didn't think of that before.
27:38But this picture, you talk about your mom and the animals.
27:41Yeah.
27:41This is you, I don't know how old you are, in a crib.
27:44Nine months old probably.
27:46And how, what is that in the crib with you?
27:47That's an adolescent cougar.
27:50That's a cougar.
27:51My mom just wasn't satisfied with stuffed animals.
27:55Stuffed animals were beneath her.
27:57And that's not like, that's not an anomalous picture.
28:00Like I have about 50 of those pictures.
28:02There's wolves that I'm holding and there's coyotes and there's hybrids and there's all kinds of stuff.
28:07So yeah.
28:07I've got to ask you about the title for Under the Truck.
28:11Yeah.
28:11Where does that come from?
28:12Really what it was, was picturing being under a truck.
28:17You're either fixing the truck or you're getting run over by the truck.
28:20And therefore a metaphor for...
28:22It's great.
28:23I love that.
28:23It sounds like something your mother would have said.
28:25Right.
28:25Or you're drunk under the truck.
28:27Yeah.
28:27That's right.
28:28But I like, you've talked about some of the titles you rejected.
28:32Oh yeah.
28:33Wait.
28:33Keep talking and I'll take them out.
28:35Some of these are great.
28:36No they're not.
28:37They're horrible.
28:38Some of them I wish...
28:39I mean I think one title was...
28:41I just panicked about this title.
28:43I think the first title was Gasoline Bubble Bath, which sounded like an adolescent poetry book.
28:48And then there was Lacerating the Peach.
28:52I don't really know what that one means.
28:55It sounds sexual.
28:56Wait, who came up with it?
28:57Did you come up with that?
28:59Lacerating the Peach?
28:59Yeah.
29:00Yes ma'am.
29:00Did you come up with all of them?
29:02Yes ma'am.
29:02Oh you're lucky.
29:03Did you...
29:04Did you come up with Cher?
29:11You know what I wish I could have used was...
29:13And then we'll get through this.
29:14But I wish I could have used Mama Tried, which is the great song by Merle Haggard.
29:18Is it Merle Haggard?
29:19Mama Tried.
29:20Lessons in Rodeo.
29:21Behind infant...
29:23A prickly heart falling upward.
29:26I don't know.
29:26Tylenol gifts.
29:27An anthropomorphic life.
29:29I don't even know what that means.
29:31But I...
29:31Somebody said...
29:33Asphalt sugar.
29:34Don't feed the baby too much.
29:38Wait, wait, wait.
29:39Were there drugs involved in this?
29:41There's always drugs involved.
29:44Anyway.
29:45We came up from under the truck because it was a nice metaphor.
29:48And it strikes me that it must have been interesting going back and telling some of these stories
29:53because they are about kind of your wilder days, but you're seeing them now through sober eyes.
29:59Were you able to kind of understand who you were in those stories?
30:02Yeah, it's fun because people ask...
30:04I know they ask you this too.
30:05Is it cathartic?
30:06And it's not.
30:07There's nothing cathartic about it.
30:08There's stories that I've told a million times and I had 88...
30:12I think when I started the book I had 88 full journals from the time I was eight years old.
30:17Wow.
30:17So that was prompting memories.
30:19It wasn't taken from the journals, but it would prompt memories.
30:22But the great thing is, is it just doesn't focus on, oh, look at how crazy my life is.
30:26Yeah.
30:27I went to jail and I did this, I got stabbed, I did all the stuff.
30:29Which, by the way, I just looked when we were backstage, I looked up your number because I was going
30:33to text you
30:34and the last text I got from you was, I'm glad you're still alive.
30:37Really?
30:38Seriously.
30:39OK.
30:39Isn't that crazy?
30:39I remember that night.
30:42Yeah.
30:43People care about me.
30:44You're a lot more interesting than I thought.
30:52No, Dan, let me just take that in for a second, man.
30:56No, come on.
30:57It's all good.
30:58It's all good.
30:58No, it is all good.
30:59You've been in jail.
30:59You could be my boyfriend.
31:03You've been in jail?
31:04You've been in jail?
31:05That's right.
31:06It ain't over yet.
31:07All right.
31:09I don't remember your question.
31:11I don't care.
31:13But, you know, it strikes me that you, you, you, you, you, you.
31:16You were exposed to all the kind of the rock and roll excess and everything.
31:19How did you avoid the sort of pitfalls of that?
31:23How did you stay clean and sober?
31:24Why are you looking at him?
31:25Because I didn't.
31:27That's what I did.
31:28Anyway, I just didn't like it.
31:30OK.
31:30If I'd want, if I'd like drugs, I would have just been doing it like that, you know?
31:35But I just, we didn't agree.
31:37We just, we just didn't agree, you know?
31:39Yeah.
31:39And my experiences, I had some, a couple of experiences with it.
31:43And it was really, like, someone gave me a Benzedrine on a Friday.
31:48And on a Sunday, I was crying to my mom because I chewed the same piece of gum for the
31:52weekend.
31:54And my, and my, and my jaw, my jaw felt like it was broken.
32:01And I, and I went to my mom and I said, Mom, I did this and I'm blah, blah, blah,
32:08blah, blah.
32:08She said, did you learn your lesson?
32:10I said yes.
32:11She said, well, then it was a good thing.
32:13Very good.
32:13It's kind of great that some people, and you see that more and more, that some people just don't like
32:18it.
32:18It's just not their thing.
32:19And I think you see that more and more.
32:21So being sober before, I think, was like a, it was anathema.
32:25It was like something that, bleh, you're sober, you don't want to have fun.
32:29Yeah.
32:29Whereas now, I've always said that if I can actively, and I knew Michael before I was sober, so he
32:35knows.
32:35Um, the blood, the bloodshed.
32:38If I can actively make my life more interesting than my greatest romance of what drinking was, then I, I
32:47can do it.
32:47You know, that's, that makes it fun.
32:49Yeah.
32:50And that's true, by the way.
32:51That's true.
32:52You have this whole life that's interesting.
32:54And I used to think that you had to, you know, you had to create chaos in order to create
32:58an interesting life.
32:59You don't.
33:00You can do both.
33:01I've created chaos without drugs.
33:02There you go.
33:03That's exactly what I mean.
33:04Because Josh, you're a step-mom in the picture.
33:07Barbara Stiles, like you refer to her in the book, as Barbara, a singer.
33:12I think that's funny.
33:13It is funny.
33:14It is funny.
33:15Do you know her?
33:16Yeah.
33:19That's right.
33:24The monosyllabic answers speak volumes.
33:28Um, yes.
33:30Yes.
33:30She's, in the book, she's quite straight-talking with you.
33:33She is, which I love, which is something that I just said.
33:36You know, there's, there's a through line to women that I've responded to highly in the course of my life.
33:42And that's people who just say it as it is.
33:44It's nice.
33:45You don't have to bob and weave and figure anything out.
33:47And, you know, and she, I said, I walked in the house.
33:50I said, you know, do you want anything to drink?
33:51And I said, I'd love a glass of wine.
33:52She said, but aren't you an alcoholic?
33:55And I was like, damn.
33:56No.
33:57No.
33:59No.
34:00Back off.
34:02I'm, I'm, I'm guessing Barbara doesn't talk to you like that, Cher.
34:06No.
34:06No.
34:08But she, she did ask you an interesting question, I think.
34:12OK.
34:16What about working?
34:18Oh, yeah.
34:20No, we were at a telethon and then, and then she leaned over to me and she said, why are
34:30you still working?
34:32Oh, wow.
34:33Why are you still singing?
34:35And I said, because someday I won't be able to.
34:42The great thing is you are still able to.
34:45Uh, we've just heard there's a, a new album.
34:48We're working on it.
34:49I mean, we're starting to work on it as soon as I get rid of this book.
34:53Can you buy all the copies?
34:56Could you just please her?
34:57Yeah, just buy all the copies and then she can make the album.
35:00But now you've already said that this is going to be your final album.
35:03Yes.
35:03And I'm praying, I'm praying,
35:08that, that I will hopefully be able to hit all the notes and have the quality.
35:13But, talking is the enemy of singing.
35:16So I'll be so goddamn glad when this is over.
35:18All right.
35:19I'll press you no more.
35:20I'll press you no more.
35:21You need an accordion player.
35:23OK.
35:24But you only can play with one hand.
35:26That's enough.
35:28OK, thank you very much for talking.
35:30It is time for music.
35:32This American singer-songwriter made waves with his debut album last year.
35:36Performing his latest single, Anyone In Love.
35:39Please welcome Jalen Ungander.
35:42There you go.
35:43Nice meeting.
35:43I love you so much.
35:47We all do, Jalen.
35:48We all do.
35:49Oh, my God.
35:50So, how gorgeous was that?
35:52Absolutely.
35:53Beautiful.
35:55Beautiful.
35:55Appreciate that.
35:56Appreciate it.
35:57Really, really special.
35:58That's a standalone single that's out now.
36:01Yes.
36:02But if people want to hear more from you, your debut album is still available.
36:07Come around and love me.
36:08Yeah, yeah.
36:08That's out.
36:09And that sound, it's interesting because it's a real kind of throwback sound for someone so young.
36:14What did you grow up listening to?
36:16Well, from ages, I would say, zero till 11, it was mainly hip-hop and, you know, contemporary R&B
36:22of the time.
36:23I wasn't listening to it.
36:24It was just always on in the car and stuff.
36:26Yeah, yeah.
36:27By 11, I got deeply into the Temptations.
36:30And I started researching about, you know, who wrote those songs, like Smokey Robinson, Norman Whitfield.
36:36And then it led to, I was like, well, I really liked the year, the decade all this stuff came
36:40from, which was in the 60s and early 70s.
36:42And I started, you know, listening to Motown acts such as the Supremes, the Moth and the Vandellas, you know,
36:47Marvelettes.
36:48And I was like, well, there's got to be one other record company.
36:50I mean, I got into, you know, Beach Boys, Sonny and Cher and The Doors and Chicago Soul, Gene Chandler.
36:56What the hell you named me?
36:57I was having it go on all night.
36:59I hate to date myself, but I knew all those people.
37:01I know you did.
37:04Man, go on all night, by the way.
37:07Any of them were in the book, part one.
37:09No, no, no.
37:11I love Smokey.
37:12Oh, me too.
37:13I love Smokey.
37:13Yeah, yeah.
37:14I love you.
37:16I got your 45s at home, yo.
37:19And now, from January next year, you are on tour.
37:24Look at all the red sold out stickers.
37:26I know, right?
37:27I know.
37:28All the local places, yeah.
37:31It's been such a pleasure to meet you.
37:33And thank you for that performance.
37:34And good luck with the tour and the album.
37:36Appreciate it.
37:37Jalen Unganda, everybody.
37:39So beautiful.
37:40So beautiful.
37:43Okay, listen, that is all we've got time for.
37:45Can I talk about your porno show?
37:49Of course you can, Cher.
37:50Because I always mention it.
37:52It is a Graham Norton show tradition that Cher comes on
37:55and claims I did a porno show.
37:58It's not a porno show, but it's, what was it?
38:01It was a filthy Mr. and Mrs. show in the middle of the night.
38:05Okay.
38:05On ITV.
38:06And it was called?
38:06It was called Carnal Knowledge.
38:08Okay.
38:08And it was watched by one person.
38:10And that one person had to be Cher.
38:13No, I watched it, was it every night?
38:15No, it was on every night.
38:17But it was only supposed to be on once a week.
38:18But they showed it.
38:19Okay, but it seemed like every night.
38:20Yeah.
38:21And all I kept thinking was, this guy's a star
38:24and he shouldn't be on this shitty show.
38:33And then you tap danced with Father Ted.
38:36Yes, I did.
38:37Yes, I did.
38:37In a caravan.
38:38In a caravan.
38:39Yes.
38:39Well done.
38:40I think...
38:44Graham, the memoir part one.
38:47Written by Cher.
38:49Thank you so much.
38:52You're welcome.
38:52Okay, listen, that is it for tonight.
38:54No time for red chairs, I'm afraid.
38:56Please say thank you to all of my guests.
38:58All right, lets get started.
38:58There's such moments by Heaven.
38:58Let go and start.
38:58Let's go.
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