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Crimewatch Roadshow - Season 23 - Episode 11: The Best Of Friends
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00:00Today, have you seen this man, Zachariah Lieberd?
00:05Police urgently want to locate him after the fatal stabbing of a 19-year-old in Birmingham.
00:11And we've got a heartbreaking appeal about an arson attack that stole the lives of two best friends.
00:19We're desperate for answers. We're desperate for closure.
00:22We need to grieve as a mum and we've not yet grieved properly.
00:26Stay watching for Crimewatch Live.
00:30He's been jamming the switchboard both here and at the instant.
00:33To remind you, this was the induction and reno-block campaign and the handgun debate.
00:41Hello and welcome to Crimewatch.
00:4412 people rang and giving the same offers fantastic results.
00:56Welcome to Monday's show. This is our third week of live programmes where we've been showing you appeals police really
01:03need your help to solve.
01:04So do stay watching because you might hold that one piece of information they need.
01:08Today, we've got an update on an appeal we ran last year about Ewan Corbett, a wanted face who'd gone
01:14on the run.
01:14Well, we've got the exclusive story of how his brags on social media about travelling the world helped police catch
01:20him.
01:22Corbett was an extremely dangerous man.
01:24He was on the run, living the lavish lifestyle, taunting the police.
01:29We were dealing with a very, very dangerous individual.
01:33We're also talking about the rising crime of cyber flashing and what to do if that happens to you.
01:40And we'll be in the studio with retired police dog Baloo and winner of the Crufts Hero Dog Award.
01:46Injured in the line of duty, she's now offering solace to officers on the front line.
01:52Talking at the front line, behind the scenes in our Cardiff headquarters, we are ready to take your calls.
01:57You can scan our QR code and get all of our details.
02:00Or just call us on 08000 468 999.
02:04Text us on 63399.
02:07Start with the word crime, leave a space, then write your message.
02:09Or email us, cwl at bbc.co.uk.
02:13And details are going to stay on the screen all throughout the show.
02:18Now for our first appeal this morning, we're off to Manchester.
02:21In 2005, a deadly arson attack broke the hearts of two families.
02:26Do you know who started the fire?
02:32Rona was our younger sister.
02:36She was such a happy-goal, lucky kid.
02:40She wanted to work with children with their complex needs
02:44because she felt she had a gift with children.
02:47She took all the kids under her wing.
02:51She learnt me how to roller skate, how to ride my bike.
02:56By the time I had trouble with kids on the street, it'd be Rona or Rona.
02:59She'd be the whole thing, yeah.
03:02She was the best.
03:03She was.
03:06Don't cry, Rona.
03:07I'm so sorry.
03:09She was.
03:10She was.
03:10She was beautiful.
03:12Rona had a best friend call Vicky, who she'd met at school when they were 15 years old.
03:18Vicky was one of nine.
03:21She always helped, you know, with the children.
03:24Mum, I'll do that.
03:25Mum, can I do that?
03:28She would always make a serious situation become funny with things she'd say, you know.
03:35She was always laughing.
03:37Always laughing.
03:38Always joking.
03:45When Vicky came out to our house, you always heard them before you saw them
03:48and they would always be laughing.
03:50Yeah.
03:50Definitely.
03:51They just got on really, really well.
03:53They were the best of friends, weren't they?
03:55Always.
03:55They loved each other.
03:56Yeah.
03:57They were always together.
04:06On Monday the 9th of May 2005, Vicky and Rona were at a friend's house on King Street
04:13in Higher Broughton, Salford.
04:16There was four or five of them there.
04:20They all seemed to be having a good time apart from some squabbles.
04:25Some left about half one and then the remainder left between 2 and 3am in the morning.
04:33Leaving Vicky and Rona alone in the house.
04:36And then they went to bed upstairs.
05:02On fire.
05:03On fire.
05:03On fire.
05:05On fire.
05:15In the early hours of the 10th of May,
05:17a fire had ripped through the terrace house as Vicky and Rona slept.
05:23Around 4am that morning, the fire services were alerted by neighbours.
05:28They'd heard the bangs and they'd seen the fire spreading.
05:31The fire ravaged through the house very quickly.
05:35Firefighters arrived just three minutes after receiving the 999 call
05:39and fought to rescue the inseparable teenagers from the first-floor bedroom.
05:46Tragically, Rona and Vicky died at the scene.
05:50They were both just 19 years old.
05:57Vicky's mum couldn't deal with it.
06:02Jacqueline just couldn't hold a conversation about it
06:04because she would just start crying.
06:06She was so upset.
06:08That was quite traumatic, really.
06:17My dad was running through the house screaming,
06:19it's our baby, it's our baby, she's gone, she's gone.
06:23And then he ran upstairs screaming, she's gone.
06:27And then him and my mum cuddling each other on the bed
06:30and then all us sisters at the top of the stairs crying.
06:35It was the worst day of my life, absolutely worst day.
06:39I think that's when I saw my mum and dad die that day.
06:41Part of them died.
06:50Police, the fire service and forensic scientists work together
06:55to examine the scene to establish the cause of the fire.
07:00There were two seats of fire.
07:03There's no doubt that this was arson with intent to kill.
07:07This was a murder inquiry.
07:11We believe between about half three in the morning
07:13and 20 to four, somebody's gone into the house
07:16through the unsecured front door
07:18and set fire in two places
07:20in the foam-filled armchair
07:22and the foam-filled sofa,
07:24both in the ground floor rooms of the house.
07:28And because the door was left open
07:30and there was an open staircase,
07:32that fuelled the flames.
07:35And the heat was so intense,
07:37it probably got up to about 1,000 degrees Celsius
07:39and completely destroyed the ground floor of the house.
07:45Vicky and Rona didn't stand a chance.
07:55We lost a bit of everybody that day.
07:58Like I said, she was the youngest girl in the family.
08:00She was, like, the baby girl.
08:05Sadly, Rona's parents passed away,
08:08never knowing who had killed their daughter.
08:13Vicky's mum and her dad,
08:16they don't seem to be able to move on from it.
08:22It's still, like, it's very painful for them both.
08:28Nobody can fill that void where Vicky used to be.
08:3420 years on, and despite extensive work,
08:38detectives are still looking for Rona and Vicky's murderer.
08:43We really need to get justice
08:45for Vicky and Rona and their families.
08:48I'm convinced that someone in the circle of friends
08:51or the local community knows who did this.
08:54Allegiances will have changed
08:55and someone needs to look at their conscience
08:57and come forward and give us the name
08:59of the person or persons
09:00who set fire to that house
09:02and killed Rona and Vicky.
09:07We still don't have any answers.
09:09None at all.
09:13There's not a day that goes by
09:14where we're not thinking about Rona.
09:17And so we're not there knowing or something.
09:19And we're desperate for answers.
09:21We're desperate for closure.
09:22We need to grieve as a mum
09:24that we've not yet grieved properly.
09:28We just need peace in our life now.
09:33And Martin Bottomley joins us
09:35from Greater Manchester Police.
09:37Thanks for coming in, Martin.
09:38Two young lives lost in this tragic incident.
09:42What do you think led up to that fire that night?
09:45Well, Vicky and Rona were socialising with friends
09:48at the house on King Street during the evening.
09:50And there'd been some alcohol consumed.
09:53And later on in the evening,
09:54an argument broke out
09:55between one of the friends and one of the victims.
09:59But over the course of the night,
10:01early hours of the morning,
10:02the friends left.
10:03And about 2am,
10:05Vicky and Rona went upstairs to bed and to sleep.
10:08So how do you think the fire actually started?
10:11Well, someone has entered the house
10:14through the insecure front door.
10:15They've gone into the ground floor living room,
10:19set fire to various items of furniture.
10:22And within, say, 10 minutes,
10:24the temperature would have been about 1,000 degrees.
10:26The windows blew out.
10:27That alerted the neighbours,
10:29who then called the emergency services.
10:31We can see some of the images, actually,
10:33of that property.
10:35As you say, the windows blown out.
10:38Absolute destruction and devastation inside.
10:40And those two young girls were upstairs asleep
10:44at the time.
10:45They would have been trapped.
10:46Yeah, they were trapped upstairs.
10:47And because the door was open slightly,
10:49the open staircase acted like a chimney.
10:52And the smoke and flames rapidly flew upstairs.
10:57So because the two young women were upstairs,
11:00how do you think the offender actually got in?
11:03You mentioned it was possibly an insecure door.
11:05Yeah, the house was in need of some repair.
11:07And the front door was slightly open.
11:09But somebody would have known that.
11:10And they got in through the front door
11:12and set fire to the house.
11:14And it was devastating.
11:15It really is.
11:16So today's appeal, it's many years on.
11:19Who are you appealing to?
11:21I'm appealing to somebody who would have known
11:23at the time who did it and why.
11:24And perhaps they didn't come forward at the time.
11:26But, you know, allegiances change.
11:29And they need to search their conscience
11:31and come forward and tell us who did this.
11:33Do the right thing.
11:34And if anyone needs another reason to come forward,
11:37there's a financial reward,
11:38a substantial one at that,
11:39that's up on offer for this.
11:40Yes, Greater Manchester Police
11:41are offering £50,000 reward for information
11:44leading to the arrest and conviction
11:46of those responsible for this tragic incident.
11:49Martin, thank you.
11:50Well, if you do have any information at all
11:53that you believe can help this truly tragic case,
11:57please do get in touch.
11:59Still to come this morning,
12:01how a police dog who lost her leg in the line of duty
12:04became an award-winning therapy dog.
12:11But first, we have an urgent appeal
12:13from West Midlands Police
12:14about the murder of teenager Chris Okora,
12:17who was killed just a few weeks ago
12:18in Acox Green, Birmingham.
12:20And with DCI Phil Paul from the Homicide Unit now,
12:23thanks so much for coming in today.
12:25What more can you tell us about this appeal, Phil?
12:28Well, our major crime unit have launched a murder investigation
12:31following the fatal stabbing
12:33of a 19-year-old male named Chris Okora.
12:36We were called on the 13th of January
12:39to a multiple occupancy house on Warwick Road
12:43in the Acox Green area of Birmingham
12:45at approximately 1.50pm in the afternoon.
12:49Colleagues from the paramedic service attended with us
12:51and sadly, at 2pm, Chris was pronounced deceased at the scene.
12:56Just awful to hear.
12:57This has been a fast-moving investigation
13:00for you and the team, hasn't it, Phil?
13:02It has.
13:03We've taken a number of statements from people
13:05that witnessed what took place at the scene
13:07and we've been able to identify a 22-year-old male,
13:11Zachariah Lybird,
13:12who is now wanted in connection with questioning
13:15with Chris's murder.
13:17How would you describe this male?
13:19So, Lybird is described as approximately 180 centimetres tall,
13:24he's of a slim build
13:26and he's got distinctive long dreadlocks or Afro hair.
13:31We've got some CCTV that we can take a look at.
13:34Just talk us through what we're seeing here in this footage.
13:37So, significantly, in the moments before Chris was sadly murdered,
13:42we've got footage of Lybird on Warwick Road,
13:44very close to the location of where Chris sadly died.
13:48And we can just see that, or just confirm the location,
13:51as you mentioned, Warwick Road there is on the map.
13:54You believe the two men knew each other, is that right?
13:57Yes, we believe there is a connection
13:59prior to the offence taking place between Chris and Lybird.
14:03We've got a number of hypotheses
14:05that we're working through at the moment.
14:06We're keeping an open mind around
14:09what the circumstances and the motive are for the offence
14:11and working diligently through a number of lines of inquiry.
14:15What do you know about Lybird's movement since the murder?
14:19So, we know that Lybird has been missing
14:21since the day of the offence on the 13th of January.
14:25The last sighting of Lybird was on the 16th of January
14:28at St Pancras train station in London,
14:31where we know that he boarded a Eurostart at Amsterdam.
14:36And you can see in the footage here
14:38that Lybird is casually walking along the train station platform,
14:43even laughing, which is quite callous,
14:45considering the level of violence that he used against Chris
14:48just three days prior to this offence.
14:50Absolutely. I mean, it's quite shocking to see, really, isn't it?
14:53It's so cool, calm and collected.
14:55This has been something that, understandably,
14:58has absolutely devastated Chris's family.
15:01In fact, they've paid tribute to him,
15:03saying,
15:04Chris was only 19 years old.
15:06He had his whole life ahead of him.
15:08He didn't get the chance to truly explore the world
15:11and discover himself.
15:12We, as a community, need to stand up as one
15:15and help save our young people's lives.
15:18A real powerful message there.
15:20How are the family coping, Phil?
15:22Well, we've obviously got specialist officers supporting them,
15:24but the family are absolutely and understandably
15:28completely devastated by Chris's murder.
15:31They are absolutely beside themselves,
15:33and it's made far worse by the fact
15:35that Chris hasn't been wrapped up in a life of crime
15:38prior to this offence taking place,
15:40so the impact has been far worse on them for that basis.
15:44For viewers that are watching this morning,
15:46how can they help?
15:47What are you appealing for?
15:48So, I'm appealing directly to anybody
15:50that knows the whereabouts of Lybird
15:52to get in touch with us.
15:53I'm also appealing to members of the public
15:55that may have been in the Warwick Road
15:57or Alton Boulevard area of Aycock's Green
15:59on the 13th of January,
16:01who may have dash cam footage, CCTV footage
16:03or ring doorbell footage
16:05that we haven't already took possession of.
16:07The area is a very busy area
16:08with a heavy footfall
16:10and lots of cars passing through the area,
16:12so I'm optimistic that there will be more footage
16:14out there that we can capture.
16:16Absolutely. Fingers crossed.
16:17And finally, there is a Crimestoppers reward,
16:20isn't there, in connection to this case?
16:21Yes.
16:22The independent charity Crimestoppers
16:24have put a £10,000 reward
16:26for information leading to the arrest of Lybird.
16:29Now, that is unusual
16:30because normally we only get rewards
16:34where it leads to the successful conviction of a person,
16:36but unusually in this case
16:38it is for information leading to his arrest.
16:40I do believe that members of his family
16:43may be supporting him to remain at large
16:46and I would appeal to them to do the right thing.
16:48This is a young man who's lost his life
16:51and the family are going through
16:53an absolutely terrible time,
16:54so anybody that knows where he is
16:56I'd appeal to them to let us know that information.
16:59Yeah, we need answers for Chris's family, don't we?
17:01Thank you so much for joining us in the studio, Phil.
17:04So if you do have any information
17:05about Lybird's whereabouts,
17:07then please do get in touch.
17:09All the ways you can do that
17:10are on the screen below.
17:13Now, how I wanted man's posts on social media
17:16about his globe-trotting adventures backfired,
17:19making it easier for police
17:21to stay on his tail and catch him.
17:25Corbett was an extremely dangerous man
17:27involved in all types of criminality.
17:30He was on the run,
17:31living the lavish lifestyle,
17:33taunting the police.
17:35They were arranging for a shooting to take place
17:38as though it was knocking.
17:48On the 2nd of May 2020,
17:52a car driving at speed
17:54in North York Moors National Park
17:58flipped over and landed in a field.
18:07When the emergency services arrived,
18:10one of the passengers,
18:1121-year-old Shane Finn,
18:13was airlifted to hospital,
18:15where sadly, he passed away.
18:18The family of Shane
18:20were extremely upset
18:21and very distressed.
18:23They'd lost their son.
18:25Shane was also a father as well.
18:30The driver
18:31was 21-year-old Ewan Corbett.
18:34He and another passenger
18:36sustained minor injuries.
18:38Corbett was very shocked
18:40at the scene
18:41and when members of the public arrived,
18:43Corbett told them
18:44to tell them
18:45that he wasn't driving the vehicle
18:46and that there was another person
18:49at the scene
18:50who had run away.
18:53Although Corbett denied
18:54he had been the driver,
18:56forensics proved otherwise.
18:59He was charged with death
19:01by dangerous driving
19:02and released on bail.
19:04But on the 19th of December 2022,
19:08the day he was due in court,
19:10he didn't show up.
19:13Ewan Corbett
19:14became a wanted fugitive.
19:17When somebody goes on the run,
19:19we contact other police forces
19:21in the UK
19:22where they have lived before
19:24and if we find
19:25that they have actually
19:26left the country,
19:27then we can make inquiries
19:29with ferries,
19:30airports, etc.,
19:32to see if they've
19:33gone out of the country
19:34that way.
19:37But Corbett broadcast
19:39exactly where he was.
19:41He posted on his social media accounts
19:44that he was in Thailand.
19:46And that was just
19:47the start of his adventure.
19:49He would regularly brag
19:51about his trips,
19:52boasting of being unstoppable.
19:54He even had the audacity
19:56to call the police.
19:58He was asking
19:59why they were making visits
20:01to his family
20:02and to his associates.
20:04He said something like,
20:06I'm not telling you
20:07where I am
20:08and if you come looking for me,
20:10things might get tough for you.
20:14Making bail threats
20:15to police officers,
20:16we were dealing with
20:17a very, very dangerous individual.
20:21But they weren't
20:22the only police force
20:23looking for Corbett.
20:25Detectives in Cleveland
20:26were also hunting for him
20:28after they heard
20:29a disturbing conversation
20:31between him
20:31and a local criminal
20:33they had been surveilling.
20:35This was a conversation
20:37for the most part
20:37between two friends.
20:38It was catching up,
20:39it was conversations
20:40around Ewan's life on the run
20:42and how he was enjoying himself,
20:44the kind of experiences
20:45that he'd been able to have.
20:49And then,
20:49quite jarringly really,
20:51they were arranging
20:52for a shooting
20:53to take place
20:54on a street in Middlesbrough.
20:56Yeah, bro,
20:57get them windows blown out
20:58for me please, mate.
20:59Send you a phone out, Brad.
21:01What comes across
21:02is just how
21:03through all the way
21:04the request was
21:05for Ewan to make.
21:06As though it was nothing.
21:08It was just
21:10transactional
21:10and that really
21:11was quite shocking.
21:12Tracing the address
21:14Ewan had given
21:15for the attack,
21:16police then found
21:17some alarming evidence.
21:18What CCTV shows
21:19is that 1am
21:20on the 25th of July,
21:222023,
21:23a quad bike
21:23pulls up outside
21:24that address.
21:27With two masked males,
21:29one of whom
21:30gets off the quad bike
21:31and pulls out
21:32what appears to be
21:32a shortened shotgun.
21:34He attempts
21:35to fire it
21:36into the property
21:36but has some sort
21:37of difficulty,
21:38a blockage perhaps
21:39of some sort.
21:40And then before
21:40getting back onto
21:41the quad bike,
21:42he does successfully
21:42fire around
21:43into the downstairs window.
21:47Adjusts his aim
21:48to fire upstairs
21:49but encounters
21:50a second issue
21:51and at this point
21:52he gets on the back
21:53of the quad bike
21:53and they flee.
21:56Fortunately,
21:57and I think
21:58through luck
21:58more than anything else,
21:59the family
22:00were unharmed.
22:04Having ordered
22:05a shooting
22:06at someone's home
22:07and killing
22:08a passenger
22:09of a car
22:09he was driving,
22:11detectives joined
22:12forces to hunt
22:13down this dangerous
22:14criminal.
22:15He may have been
22:16on the run
22:17but he wasn't
22:18hiding.
22:19Some of the posts
22:20that Corbett
22:21put on
22:22certainly looked like
22:23he was taunting
22:24police.
22:29Saying, you know,
22:30come and find me,
22:31you'll never find me,
22:32I'll always be on the run,
22:34you'll never catch me.
22:37One of the posts
22:38caused me
22:39some concern.
22:42There was a picture
22:43of him
22:44holding a rifle
22:45and he was
22:46at a firing range
22:48saying,
22:49this is in case
22:50any badges
22:50come near me.
22:54He was living
22:56the life
22:56of a gap year student,
22:58not a wanted fugitive,
23:00posting pictures
23:00from Thailand,
23:02Vietnam,
23:02Cambodia,
23:04Switzerland,
23:05Italy and Spain.
23:07Police believed
23:08he had even
23:09made it
23:09to the Euros.
23:11I thought,
23:12how has he got
23:13from Thailand
23:13to Spain?
23:14He would not
23:15have been able
23:16to get there
23:16on his own
23:18passport
23:19because his photograph
23:21had been
23:22well disseminated
23:23to all these
23:23foreign forces.
23:25He was using
23:26false identity.
23:29We now have
23:30the challenge
23:30in finding
23:31exactly where
23:32Ewan is
23:32on the run
23:33at this moment
23:33in time
23:34and ultimately
23:35getting him
23:35back to the UK.
23:37Confident he was
23:38using false papers,
23:40they turned
23:40to Interpol,
23:42Border Force
23:42and launched
23:43a media campaign
23:44to flush him out.
23:49He's known
23:50to have connections
23:50in Middlesbrough,
23:51in North Yorkshire
23:52and also in Spain
23:53and Portugal.
23:55Part of the challenge
23:56was the frequency
23:57of movement,
23:58the propensity
23:59to change and mix up
24:00SIM cards
24:01and mobile phones.
24:02The social media posts
24:03certainly helped
24:04the investigation
24:05because it really
24:06did give us
24:06a correlation
24:07of the other
24:09evidence we had
24:10and what we knew
24:11or thought we knew
24:11about his movements.
24:15We knew that
24:16the net was
24:17closing in on him
24:18and we just needed
24:19that one little
24:20piece of luck
24:21to catch him
24:22and eventually
24:23it came.
24:27In February 2025,
24:30Turkish police
24:30arrested Corbett
24:32as he tried
24:33to cross the border
24:34into Iran.
24:36The border guard
24:38at the Iran-Turkey border
24:40questioned him
24:41at the scene.
24:42He had a Polish passport.
24:44He was unable
24:45to answer the questions
24:47in Polish
24:47and that is the passport
24:49that he'd been using
24:50to travel around
24:52both the EU
24:53and in Southeast Asia.
24:58After four years
25:00of trying to locate
25:02and bring Corbett
25:03to justice,
25:04I knew we had
25:05our man this time.
25:07100% it was him.
25:12On the 29th of May
25:142025,
25:16Corbett was deported
25:17back to the UK
25:18and taken to
25:19York Crown Court
25:21where he pleaded guilty.
25:22Corbett was sentenced
25:23to 11 years
25:24and two months
25:25imprisonment
25:26for death
25:26by dangerous driving.
25:28He was also given
25:29an extra four years
25:30for the firearm
25:31offence in Cleveland.
25:33I thought,
25:35wow,
25:3515 years
25:36and two months
25:37is an extremely
25:39long sentence.
25:40My colleagues
25:40in Cleveland,
25:41you know,
25:42they fought as hard
25:43as I did
25:43to try and find him
25:45and they were
25:45as overjoyed
25:46as I was
25:47that he was
25:47finally behind bars.
25:49It's a relief
25:50more than anything
25:51because you've
25:52made a commitment
25:53to that family
25:54and to the victim
25:55here in Cleveland
25:56that you can't
25:58escape justice
25:59and when you do
26:01these kind of things
26:02we're going to be
26:02relentless in our
26:03pursuit of you.
26:08Well, I bet now
26:09we wish he hadn't
26:09posted all those
26:10pictures about that
26:11pretend gap year.
26:12I mean,
26:12what was he thinking
26:13though?
26:13It's not the wisest
26:14idea, that, is it?
26:15Probably thought
26:15he didn't get caught.
26:16Well, he did.
26:17But he was caught.
26:19Well, we are now
26:20talking to Professor
26:21of Law at Durham
26:22University, Claire
26:23McGlynn, and also
26:24Jess Davies, who
26:25has herself
26:26experienced a crime
26:28called cyber
26:29flashing.
26:29Good morning to you
26:30both.
26:31Claire, if I can
26:32just start with
26:33yourself, can you
26:34just explain what
26:35actually is cyber
26:37flashing?
26:39So, this is where
26:40someone takes an
26:41image or a video
26:43of their genitals
26:44or someone else's
26:45and sends it to
26:46someone without
26:47their consent.
26:48Now, it can happen
26:50in lots of
26:50different ways on
26:51email, on social
26:52media, dating apps,
26:54but it can also be
26:55done through
26:56Bluetooth and
26:57airdrops.
26:58So, you can be
26:58on the bus or
26:59standing in the
27:00queue for coffee and
27:01someone sends you
27:02this image without
27:02your consent.
27:03It's really shocking
27:05actually just to think
27:05that this can happen
27:06at any time, any
27:08place.
27:08And when you look
27:10at the figures,
27:1045% of women aged
27:12between 18 and 24
27:14years old have
27:16received a sexualized
27:18image without their
27:19consent, Jess.
27:20this is something
27:21that you've
27:22experienced yourself
27:23firsthand, isn't it?
27:24It is, yeah.
27:24I would even imagine
27:25the figures are higher
27:26than that, you know?
27:27And it is something
27:28that I've experienced
27:28for more than 10
27:30years now, ever since
27:31I was kind of on the
27:31internet and all of
27:33them different kind of
27:34like social media
27:34platforms.
27:35I've had someone
27:36email me my work
27:37email that they found
27:38and send me these
27:39images.
27:40It's your work email as
27:41well that they're using.
27:42Yeah, and it adds to
27:43that kind of level of
27:44the fear and the
27:45threat of like, well,
27:45who are these people?
27:46Because so much of it
27:47can be anonymous,
27:48right?
27:48And that kind of, you
27:49start to wonder, well,
27:50why have they found my
27:51email?
27:52Like, why are they
27:52sending this to me?
27:53Who is it?
27:53Could I pass them in the
27:54street?
27:54Do they live by me?
27:55Do they know who I am?
27:56So it all adds into this
27:57sense of making women
27:59feel scared online.
28:00Absolutely.
28:00That's the thing, isn't
28:01it?
28:01It's not just a photo.
28:03When you actually think
28:04of the far-reaching
28:05consequences that it can
28:07have on your day-to-day,
28:08how it makes you feel.
28:10Definitely.
28:11And the way that this
28:11crime works, right, it's
28:12on your phone, you get
28:13sent it on your laptop.
28:14So for me, it would be
28:15like checking my social
28:17media in the morning when
28:18you're still in bed, this
28:19place that's going to be
28:19your safe space and you
28:20have these people invading
28:22it and sending you
28:22something without your
28:23consent and it can really
28:24change the way you view
28:26your own home and that
28:27safety element, but the
28:28way you get to operate,
28:29not just online, but
28:30offline as well.
28:32Claire, what do you
28:33believe actually drives
28:35this type of behaviour?
28:37There's lots of
28:38different reasons.
28:39For some men, it is
28:41about threatening and
28:42intimidating women.
28:43So it's a power over
28:45them by being able to
28:47interfere with their
28:48daily lives in the way
28:49that Jess describes.
28:51Some others are doing
28:52it with a kind of
28:53disregard, frankly.
28:54They'll send out a hundred
28:55messages and just hope
28:57that one or two women
28:58respond without caring
29:00about the impact they
29:01have on others.
29:03We also got to think
29:04about, you know, groups
29:05of young teenage boys.
29:07Sometimes they're doing it
29:08because they're pressured
29:09to, you know, it's about
29:10gaining the kudos in that
29:12group.
29:12So in that sense, again,
29:14it's got little regard for
29:15the women, but they're
29:16trying to do it as a kind
29:17of bonding exercise.
29:19And what can be done to
29:20stop it?
29:21We just heard it can
29:22often be anonymous, so it
29:24must be quite tricky.
29:25What can be done?
29:26Well, it is now a crime.
29:28So if you can report it
29:31to the police if this
29:31happens to you.
29:33Now, you're right that
29:33often it's anonymous, so
29:35sometimes it can be
29:36difficult to trace those
29:37individuals.
29:38But that's not impossible
29:39if we've got some
29:40commitment and drive to
29:41follow through on this.
29:43The platforms could be
29:45doing more to try and
29:47prevent these images
29:48being shared in the first
29:49place.
29:50But ultimately, yes, we've
29:51got to try and change our
29:52kind of culture and
29:53attitudes so that people
29:54just don't think it's
29:55acceptable to send these
29:57kind of images.
29:58Well, you talk about
29:58changing culture and
30:00attitude, as you say,
30:01Claire, that is pivotal
30:03really, so important
30:04because as it stands at
30:06the moment, when you
30:06discuss this kind of
30:07topic, it still feels,
30:09Jess, that there is a
30:10lot of victim blaming,
30:12victim shaming around it,
30:14doesn't there?
30:14Absolutely.
30:15I mean, every single time
30:16I speak about this, I'll
30:17get people saying, well,
30:18why did you open that
30:19message?
30:19Why did you open the
30:20email?
30:20I've never experienced
30:21that.
30:22What have you done to try
30:23and get that?
30:23Oh, you have social media,
30:24so this is just what
30:25happens online.
30:26And it's this victim
30:27blaming and normalising
30:28of these behaviours that
30:30just brushes it off.
30:31But, you know, I always
30:32say if we were seeing
30:33these kind of behaviours
30:34out on the street, every
30:35street corner you see,
30:36someone was there
30:37exposing themselves, we
30:39would talk about it like
30:39an epidemic, you know.
30:40We'd have women being
30:41too scared to go outside
30:42or parents telling their
30:43children to stay in.
30:44But because it's online,
30:46it's kind of downplayed
30:47as not so serious.
30:48But of course, you know,
30:49these people that are
30:49doing it, they're real
30:50people, you know, they do
30:51exist on the offline
30:52world as well.
30:53And for me, it's that
30:54sense of, well, if they
30:55think that behaviour is
30:56OK, we need to start
30:57worrying about, well, what
30:58happens when that isn't
30:59enough for them?
31:00Is there a correlation
31:00between something more
31:01serious in the future?
31:03Exactly.
31:03I mean, Claire, you were
31:04just nodding your head
31:05there.
31:05That's a really interesting
31:06point, isn't it?
31:07What comes next after
31:08this initial behaviour,
31:10which is indeed worrying?
31:11You know, what could
31:13happen after that?
31:16Well, we do know that
31:17some of the most
31:19violent men have
31:21cyber-flashed and
31:22exposed themselves in
31:23the past.
31:24So we know that it can
31:25be a pattern of
31:26offending for some
31:27very serious and
31:29violent offenders.
31:30But the thing is, for
31:31each and every woman,
31:32we don't know which
31:34of the people who are
31:35sending us these images
31:36is going to be that
31:38exceptionally violent
31:39person.
31:39So every single time
31:41we get sent the image,
31:42we feel the fear and
31:44the threat of what is
31:45going to happen next.
31:46What will they do next?
31:47And sometimes it's even
31:48who is that person?
31:50You know, you can be on
31:51the bus or the tube and
31:53you don't know who it
31:54is who sent you the
31:56image.
31:56Are they going to
31:56follow you and what's
31:58going to happen next?
31:59So, yes, it can be a
32:00pattern of offending, but
32:01for individual women,
32:03every single one is the
32:04threat.
32:05It really is.
32:06And, Claire, finally,
32:07would you advise that
32:08people still report
32:09these things?
32:10It is now a crime.
32:11Would that be your
32:13suggestion?
32:14So it very much depends
32:16on each individual.
32:17Not everyone wants to go
32:18to the police and report
32:20this as a crime.
32:20But if you choose to,
32:22yes, do, it is a crime
32:24and we must make sure
32:25the police are taking
32:26this far more seriously.
32:27And there are a large
32:29number of convictions now
32:30for this offence.
32:32A younger girl,
32:33particularly a teenager,
32:34I definitely want her to be
32:36talking to a trusted
32:37adult and speaking to the
32:38school to make sure that
32:40this is being dealt with
32:41properly in a school as
32:42well.
32:42And you can report it to
32:44the platforms.
32:45Block those people, but
32:46report it so that maybe
32:47action can get taken
32:48against them.
32:50Fantastic advice.
32:51Good advice.
32:52Thank you, Claire.
32:52And thank you, Jess, for
32:54sharing.
32:55Now, our regular viewers
32:56will know we do cover some
32:58of the worst crimes in the
32:59country, but we also want
33:00to shine a light, don't we,
33:01on the amazing people
33:03fighting to make our
33:04communities just that
33:05little bit better.
33:06And there are thousands
33:07of them out there.
33:08There are so many.
33:09Here's another example of
33:10one of those channeling
33:11their energy into making
33:12things a little bit happier.
33:18My name's Joel.
33:19I run an organisation
33:20called Paradigm Project,
33:22and I'm also a researcher
33:23and I look at issues
33:24around school exclusion.
33:26I do a lot of work in
33:27primary schools and
33:28secondary schools.
33:32I actually served a
33:33custodial sentence, and
33:35it was during that time
33:36that I became acutely
33:38aware of the privileges
33:39that I had.
33:41I was able to see some of
33:44the things that I had or
33:45had experienced that was
33:46very different to the
33:47people around me.
33:49I did a mentoring
33:50qualification in prison
33:51and started working in the
33:53education department,
33:54mentoring basic maths and
33:55English.
33:56There is an over-representation
33:58in prison of people that
34:00have been excluded,
34:01permanently excluded,
34:02from education.
34:03School exclusion can lead
34:05to those harmful trajectories
34:08which can end up in
34:09criminal justice involvement.
34:13One of the most profound
34:15experiences for me after
34:16leaving prison was
34:18briefly working in a
34:20trauma unit in a hospital,
34:21working directly with the
34:23victims of knife crime,
34:24and the amount of young
34:25people that were coming
34:26through really is what
34:28made me feel like something
34:29needs to be done to stop
34:30them from getting here in
34:32the first place.
34:32And that's what really led
34:33to me founding Paradigm
34:35Project because I wanted to
34:35create a paradigm shift in the
34:38way that we tackle complex
34:39youth issues.
34:41The focus of today is
34:43obviously moving from
34:45primary to secondary school.
34:46You guys are going to get
34:48to learn from the children
34:49and also they're going to
34:50get to learn from you guys.
34:51So today is about you.
34:53It's about hearing from you.
34:54There's no right or wrong
34:55answers.
34:56Paradigm Project started its
34:58focus working on early
34:59educational transitions right
35:01from early years into
35:02primary school so we can pick
35:04up some of those issues and
35:06actually support families and
35:09children and schools in
35:10producing healthier children
35:12throughout that journey.
35:14We're going to run an
35:15activity, Harley, called
35:18Friendship Soup.
35:19And this is a really fun
35:21exercise that we do to
35:23explore what are the
35:25ingredients of a successful
35:27friendship or a healthy
35:29friendship.
35:38We've spoken about what makes
35:40a good friend and to not be
35:43in a bad group of your
35:46friends.
35:46We had a lot of fun looking
35:48at things like good
35:49communication, fun, laughter,
35:52shoulders to cry on.
35:53There's also things that you'd
35:55have in friendships such as
35:57being yourself and being able
35:58to speak to each other openly
35:59and opinionated without being
36:01judged.
36:02It's very useful to do this
36:04all together because most
36:06children don't like having
36:07deep conversations with their
36:09parents.
36:09So the fact that we've got to
36:11do it in a good way that's
36:14showing our collaboration was
36:16really good.
36:18The ultimate goal of the work
36:20that we're doing through
36:21Paradigm Project is to work in
36:24a more preventative way so
36:25that we can increase the life
36:28opportunities of children that
36:29might otherwise be classified
36:31as disadvantaged.
36:33We want to empower schools and
36:36services to be able to engage
36:38with their students.
36:40This work is about being
36:41positively disruptive in the
36:43education space, doing things
36:44differently to what they've been
36:46done previously.
36:47This is about building systems
36:49that don't wait for crisis
36:50before they respond.
36:54It really is fantastic work
36:56that Joel's doing there.
36:57It just puts a smile on your
36:58face, doesn't it?
36:59Now, a recent survey from the
37:01Dogs Trust revealed that 95% of
37:03people agree that having a dog
37:05is good for their mental health
37:07and our next guests demonstrate
37:08this beautifully with former Met
37:11Dog handler Mandy Chapman and
37:13her retired police dog Baloo who
37:15was injured in the line of duty.
37:17It is such a pleasure to have you
37:18with us this morning.
37:19Thank you so much for coming in.
37:21We've got to talk more about
37:23beautiful Baloo.
37:24I mean, she's so calm this
37:25morning.
37:26But as we just mentioned there,
37:27she lost her front leg, didn't
37:29she?
37:29What happened?
37:30How did she become injured?
37:32Well, Baloo is a general purpose
37:33police dog with Essex Police.
37:35And unfortunately, in October 2018,
37:38she tracked some suspects but was
37:39then hit by the car.
37:41So everybody sees the visible
37:43disability.
37:43But the more serious injury was
37:45the pelvis was smashed.
37:46So that's all been rebuilt with
37:47metal.
37:48Metal rods into both back legs to
37:50give her strength.
37:50We thought we were going to lose
37:52her.
37:52I mean, we can see her here.
37:54Bless her.
37:54So was this mid-operation?
37:57Absolutely, yes.
37:58She'd had the work on the pelvis to
38:00replace a lot of the bones with
38:02metal.
38:02And the following day,
38:04immediately took away the front
38:06right leg because that had just not
38:07had any oxygen and was too badly
38:08damaged.
38:10Oh, she's missing her front leg,
38:11as you can see there,
38:13but still a very, very happy dog.
38:14How did you guys come to work
38:17together, Mandy?
38:18Well, I'm a retired Met Police
38:19dog handler.
38:20I work for German Shepherds.
38:21And when I retired,
38:22obviously at a very young age,
38:23I started volunteering with
38:25Essex Police.
38:25Saw her working.
38:26She was phenomenal.
38:27And when she was injured,
38:29I offered the handler that I would
38:30give her a nice, quiet retirement,
38:31which hasn't worked out.
38:32I am PA and chauffeur.
38:34But yes,
38:35what I wanted to do when I took her
38:37on was to go meet our heroes in
38:39headsets in the control room and
38:41other officers and staff that heard
38:42the call.
38:43She wasn't expected to survive.
38:45It is incredible she has survived.
38:47And that started off the visits.
38:48We have been everywhere since then.
38:50And what we notice is how people,
38:52you know,
38:53really feel better.
38:54Officers and staff know I've been in
38:56the police a long time.
38:56They can talk to me.
38:58We've helped people,
39:00including children,
39:01get over incidents where they may
39:02have been bitten by a dog
39:03or afraid of dogs.
39:04She just has that way.
39:06So exactly how does it work then?
39:08Or does it change depending on
39:10the type of, you know,
39:12organisation or area that you're
39:13going to?
39:13Is it a case of actually
39:15just sitting there and spending
39:17time with people?
39:17It is.
39:18I mean,
39:19we obviously primary role is
39:20supporting police officers and
39:22staff and other agencies
39:23with well-being.
39:25But we also visit care homes.
39:27We visit schools,
39:28Cub Scouts.
39:29We've even been a kindergarten
39:30with three-year-olds
39:31and they just adored her.
39:32Yeah.
39:33What kind of impact would you say
39:35that people spending time with
39:37Baloo and yourself can have?
39:39What do you see?
39:40Just the way she can look at
39:42somebody or pick somebody out
39:43in the classroom or in a care
39:45home or even on a busy relief
39:47of officers.
39:48There will be no outward sign,
39:49but she will make a beeline for
39:51them.
39:51The paw goes up and the eyes.
39:53And she just really knows who
39:55needs that extra attention,
39:57a bit of affection.
39:57And they know they can talk to
39:58me.
39:59Yes.
40:00And I remember when we were
40:01talking earlier, Amanda,
40:02you were saying actually you
40:04would have been able to have
40:05this kind of thing during your
40:06time.
40:06Oh, I do.
40:07As a police officer who served
40:09for over 30 years frontline,
40:10we see the worst things.
40:11Yeah.
40:12And we carry that with us.
40:13We've lost too many officers and
40:15staff to suicide and having
40:17mental health issues that some
40:19force them to leave the force
40:20or carry that weight with them.
40:22And we just are able and we've
40:24had feedback from people very
40:25quietly that we've really
40:26helped them.
40:27And that's just fantastic to
40:29think your dog's doing that
40:30and how happy she is doing it.
40:31Yeah.
40:32Well, you can tell, I mean,
40:33has she always had this
40:33temperament just so chilled?
40:36She's a lively police dog,
40:37but she's absolutely amazing.
40:39As I say, with older people,
40:40we visit SEND schools and they
40:42absolutely love her and she
40:43just loves FAST.
40:44Yeah.
40:45Well, she loves live telly as
40:46well.
40:46She is just kicking back,
40:47having a lovely time.
40:48We've got to mention the award
40:50that Baloo won, was this last
40:52year at Crafts?
40:53It's last year.
40:53She is the hero dog 2025 at
40:55Crafts and she was awarded by
40:57the Kennet Club the
40:58extraordinary life of a
40:59working dog.
41:00She's a show-off.
41:02But the wonderful thing about
41:03that is the winner, we had
41:05over 120,000 votes by the
41:07weekend.
41:07Did you?
41:08We visit a lot of schools
41:09and a lot of forces.
41:10A lot of fans then.
41:11But the best thing is you win
41:12£5,000, which I donated to
41:14the Essex Retired Police Dog
41:15Fund, who kindly, voluntarily
41:17look after our retired police
41:19dogs in Essex.
41:19That's fantastic.
41:21That will help a lot of other
41:22dogs that quietly retire.
41:23So just paying it back.
41:25I mean, you know what?
41:26So just to see this
41:27relationship, Mandy, between
41:29you and Baloo, it must feel
41:32very special.
41:33She's amazing.
41:33It's an honour and a
41:34privilege to share her.
41:36I love it.
41:36And while she's enjoying it,
41:37we'll keep going.
41:38Yeah, absolutely.
41:39Well, it's been a privilege to
41:41have you in the studio.
41:42She's put smiles on so many
41:44people's faces behind the
41:45scenes as well here today.
41:46So thank you so much for
41:47taking the time.
41:48Thanks, Baloo.
41:52Well done, Baloo.
41:54And Michelle and Baloo are
41:55totally having a cuddle right
41:56now, I can guarantee you.
41:58Now, though, it is time for the
41:59first of this week's Wanted Faces.
42:04First, have you seen Chris
42:06Bailey here?
42:06Sometimes he uses the name
42:08Paul Burkton.
42:09He's been recalled to prison where
42:11he was serving a sentence for
42:12reckless driving.
42:14He's 42, has connections to
42:16Maidstone in Kent and may be
42:17recognised due to a number of
42:18scars on his hands and legs.
42:21Next, we've got Hamza Fade.
42:23He was sentenced for robbery and
42:24has now been recalled to prison for
42:26breaching the conditions of his
42:28licence.
42:28He's 31, has connections to Hull
42:30and also London.
42:32And last for this morning, do you
42:34recognise this guy?
42:34This is 26-year-old Jacob Smith.
42:36He was jailed for three years and six
42:38months for handling stolen goods and
42:40later released, but he has failed to
42:42stick to his conditions and has been
42:44recalled back to prison.
42:46Police say he has links to Carlisle in
42:49Cumbria and also Morecambe and
42:51Blackpool in Lancashire.
42:52So, if you know the whereabouts of any of
42:54those men, please do call us on
42:5608000 468 999.
42:59And I'm afraid we've run out of time for
43:01today, but remember, you can watch the
43:03whole series so far on iPlayer.
43:05It's all there.
43:06And do check out our sister series,
43:08which is Crimax Court.
43:09That's there also.
43:10Yes, it's very good.
43:11Tomorrow, it's a nail-biting rescue
43:13mission for police as they race to save
43:15a woman from drowning in a car.
43:26That was terrifying.
43:27It's so scary, isn't it?
43:28Well, that's on tomorrow.
43:30Lots more as well.
43:3110.45, same time.
43:32Bye for now.
43:33See you, man.
43:49We'll see you next time.
43:50Bye.
43:51Bye.
43:56Bye.
43:57Bye.
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