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00:01In today's episode...
00:03What's the maiden name of your mother?
00:06..we battle one of the slickest scammers we've ever encountered.
00:10It's £1,398.
00:12I'm going to just keep bombarding her with the landline.
00:20Can you just block the number if they keep trying to call you again?
00:23..and fight him with everything we've got.
00:26Oh, my God, you're totally mad.
00:28She's seconds away from doing a bank transfer.
00:31Oh, what are you doing?
00:41Tell me, what do you see next on the screen?
00:45Today, in the Glasgow Scam Hub,
00:47Nick and the team are monitoring a scammer
00:50who's a very smooth operator.
00:53There has been 19 foreign locations
00:55from where the people have been trying to get into your network.
00:57all across the globe.
01:00So that confirms that it is a case of a hacking attempt.
01:05The scammer claims to be from payment company PayPal
01:09and is telling someone based somewhere in the UK
01:12that their account has been hacked.
01:16And they have been trying to get in your PayPal or maybe...
01:20But he's the criminal here, gaining people's trust before he steals their money.
01:27So, first of all, our first step is to go ahead and secure your PayPal account.
01:32OK?
01:33So, I'm going to get you connected on a PayPal server.
01:39So, we've got some new actors on the screen.
01:41We don't really know much about them yet or where they are.
01:43But what we do know is that their scam roughly looks like a bank impersonation scam.
01:48Thanks to our ethical hacker, Jim,
01:51we can watch the scam play out on the scammer's own computer screen.
01:56They send out messages to people that say there's been fraudulent transactions
01:59using their PayPal account and then encourage people to call the number.
02:03If you do call, you're through to this guy.
02:05OK.
02:07So, for the moment of security reason, we are resetting your PayPal account.
02:11Can you go and check right now?
02:12Have you received any text message at code, a six-digit code?
02:19Oh, he's just giving him a one-time passcode to our PayPal account.
02:22Oh, no.
02:24The scammer is tricking the person into letting him take control of their PayPal account.
02:31So, this is your security questions we are going to set up, all right?
02:34What's the maiden name of your mother?
02:39We now see an email address.
02:42This suggests he's talking to a woman, but we've yet to see her full name.
02:48We have a phone number, don't we?
02:50Can you check me her number, please, sir?
02:5307946.
02:54Yep.
02:55We also have a mobile number.
02:58Interceptor Harleen tries to call.
03:02Hello.
03:04Rejected.
03:05She's in call.
03:06Do you want to try again?
03:07Yeah.
03:09Hello, this is Anne.
03:12Not available to take your call at the moment.
03:14Did she say Anne?
03:15Yeah, Anne.
03:17We now know the woman's name, Anne.
03:19We need to write there in the search box at the top...
03:23And she's being drawn deeper and deeper into the scam.
03:29ConnectWiseControl, I will spell it for you.
03:31It's C as in Charlie.
03:33The scammer's persuading her to download legitimate software called ConnectWiseControl.
03:39OK.
03:40Now, once you open, what exactly do you see on the screen?
03:45It just says ConnectWiseControl.
03:49But the scammer's using it with criminal intent to see into Anne's phone and everything she has on it.
03:57Yeah, guys, I think we just need to work out where exactly she is.
04:00She's not going to take our calls.
04:03Now, once you click on that, tell me what exactly do you see on the screen?
04:07PayPal Secure Secure.
04:10Connected.
04:11All right, that's correct.
04:13Anne thinks she's connected to a genuine PayPal service to help secure her account.
04:20Start Broadcast.
04:22Start Broadcast, yeah. Click that.
04:25But she's not.
04:27Yes, click on that. Start Broadcast.
04:32Here we go, guys. He's in.
04:36Suddenly you've got a scammer watching your phone's screen.
04:38Now, once you click on that, everything will be recorded for quality and training purposes.
04:44I'm going to text her, see if she sees it.
04:47As we can't call Anne, Nick tries to text.
04:52No sign of my text coming through on her phone yet.
04:55OK.
04:56Now, I want you to go on your PayPal account.
04:59Anne's too busy with the scammer to see it.
05:03OK. Now, can you go in your activity in your PayPal, please?
05:08Yep.
05:10We've got no sense at all of where she is in the country at the moment.
05:13No.
05:13And she's not responding to our calls or reading our texts.
05:17And now we're in a position where if we do text her, the scammer can see it.
05:20You can see it. Yep.
05:22Which we do not want.
05:23Now, what are the last charges do you see there?
05:26The scammer goes through Anne's PayPal history.
05:32It's all part of his deception, pretending to help her find fraudulent transactions.
05:39Now, do you recognize these businesses?
05:41That means these businesses have been charging on a regular basis.
05:45OK.
05:45So, do you recognize these services?
05:47Classic scammer window dressing.
05:49Why?
05:49Because when you're sort of making your mental assessment as to whether or not you might be talking to a
05:53scammer,
05:53you're going to be going, oh, well, he's helping me to delete payment methods,
05:56which is certainly going to help stop money going out of my account,
05:59which shouldn't be going out.
06:01So, he must be on my side.
06:05OK.
06:07All right.
06:09Is this something I can do at home once I've got to check with you,
06:12or do you have to get me to do it right now?
06:15Well...
06:16She's not at home.
06:18She just said that.
06:19You can do it, all right, but you see, that of fraudulent transactions,
06:23we cannot hold it for long.
06:26It sounds like Anne's not at home,
06:28which will make tracking her down even harder.
06:35Our calls and texts are being ignored.
06:41Until now.
06:44She's going to see our messages.
06:45Scan warning.
06:46OK.
06:47Anne opens her messages.
06:49Our warning text is on her screen.
06:52Look, she's reading the message, guys.
06:54She's reading the message.
06:55Send another, send another.
06:56But Anne seems to be ignoring us.
06:59What's going on?
07:01As the scammer guides her into her Amazon account.
07:08Yeah.
07:09Once you click on payment and transactions,
07:11tell me what do you see on the screen?
07:14Mine.
07:15Pretty hard.
07:16As Anne opens her account, we see more personal information.
07:21Amazon.
07:22Here we go.
07:22We might get a postcode here, guys.
07:25CM16 something.
07:27OK.
07:27CM16.
07:30From a partial postcode, we know that Anne lives somewhere in Essex.
07:35Yeah.
07:37Now, once you go in your settings, allow me to...
07:39Can't see it more here.
07:41Do you see any options, payment and shipping?
07:43Yeah.
07:43Come on, go to shipping.
07:44Let's give us an address.
07:45Yeah.
07:46Then we're going to get it.
07:47Now, once you click on payment and shipping, do you see any options there, once you click on it?
07:52There you go.
07:53The scammer can now see Anne's home address.
07:58But so can we.
08:01I mean, this is really close, guys, to our southern GIs.
08:05They're probably only half an hour away from this place.
08:08Interceptor Mark sends a message to get ground interceptors Harriet and Mia on the road.
08:15But they'll need to be quick.
08:18Because this scammer is always one step ahead of us.
08:22Now, we are going to go ahead and start cancelling the purchase of an Apple gift card.
08:26So, first, there has been a request made of total of £500.
08:31OK.
08:32The scammer now tells Anne that Apple gift cards have been bought fraudulently on her PayPal account.
08:39We are going to start cancelling the purchase of those gift cards one by one.
08:43He's trying to buy gift cards.
08:45It's another lie.
08:47And a critical part of the scam.
08:50Now, do you see any options message?
08:52You need to write in the message cancellation.
08:54Yeah.
08:55Please write in cancellation there.
08:58Anne thinks she's processing a refund.
09:01But if she does what she's told, she'll actually be buying gift cards for the scammer.
09:07Oh, no.
09:08I'm calling her now.
09:08That should be correct.
09:09Do you need to move up?
09:10Yeah.
09:12Hello, this is Anne.
09:15I'm going to try the old WhatsApp trick.
09:16Let's see if that will work.
09:18Right, cancellation.
09:20Yeah, cancellation.
09:22Just ignore them.
09:24I'm going to call again.
09:25We keep calling to Anne's phone and WhatsApp account.
09:29That's cancellation.
09:31Yeah.
09:33Hold on.
09:34I keep getting a call.
09:35I feel like it's my bank.
09:37That's it.
09:38I'll call it there.
09:39Well, don't call it back.
09:40Don't call it back.
09:41Trying to get scam warning to appear on her screen to see if it works.
09:44No, it's not working.
09:45I don't know.
09:46It's a WhatsApp.
09:47Yeah, so just ignore the call.
09:49Bank will never call you from a WhatsApp, OK?
09:52What's the number do you see there?
09:53He's clever.
09:54He's getting out of here.
09:55He's a clever scammer.
09:56Yeah, that's a good line.
09:57Yeah.
09:59The scammer is slick, reassuring Anne that he's helping her.
10:04Nick sends another message.
10:06No problem.
10:07I mean, I've got a message saying, scam warning.
10:10Hang up and contact your bank immediately.
10:13A second.
10:13Come on, Anne.
10:14Yeah, well, what do you see there exactly?
10:18That's maybe the hackers.
10:20That's maybe your hackers.
10:22Whatever we try to stop the scam, the scammer knocks back.
10:29So, do you see in the message you need to write cancellation, right?
10:33Can you try?
10:34Yeah, cancellation.
10:36Just ignore them.
10:37Let's call the GI, shall we?
10:39Because she's not answering her calls.
10:41What, my phone cancellation?
10:42That's it.
10:43That's cancellation.
10:46The ground interceptors are now our best chance of stopping the scam.
10:52We call them with an update.
10:55She's literally buying gift cards now.
10:58It's a PayPal impersonation scam.
11:01They're telling her this is how she's getting refunded.
11:03Actually, she's paying for gift cards the scammers are going to get themselves.
11:08Well, we'll just do what we can.
11:10We'll just get there and hope that there's someone home.
11:12Fingers crossed there's someone home, all right?
11:13Keep us updated.
11:14We'll speak to you in a bit.
11:15All right.
11:17What's your ETA gap?
11:17What's your ETA gap?
11:1825 minutes or something?
11:2025 minutes from the area.
11:22Okay.
11:22Okay.
11:23Good luck.
11:24Excellent.
11:24Thanks so much, team.
11:26I have, yeah.
11:28Meanwhile, the scammer is trying to stop us from getting through to Anne.
11:33Now, you see, the hackers have been keep trying to reach you and they have been changing their
11:39number and keep trying to send you a text or call again and again.
11:43So you can block them number at this time as well, okay?
11:47Okay.
11:47They're trying to call you, right?
11:48I'm just going to block them all.
11:51Yeah.
11:52I mean, they're all blocked now, but they're going to keep trying, aren't they?
11:55Anne blocks all of our numbers.
11:59But the scammer hasn't yet got his hands on her money.
12:05So he tried to buy £100 worth of gift cards or persuade her to do it on his behalf.
12:09But his problem is he doesn't have the email with the code he needs to be able to cash the
12:14gift card.
12:15This is really slowing him down.
12:17Gift cards have a code needed for online purchases.
12:21The codes will be sent to Anne by email.
12:26If she gives the codes to the scammer, then he can use them.
12:32Okay, I've just got the email from the iTunes store.
12:36Yes, okay.
12:39Now, what exactly do you see there?
12:41There's £100 cancellation.
12:44And then it says redeem now, redeem codes.
12:47Now, allow me a quick moment, let me go ahead and get a confirmation from my team.
12:51Just stay there.
12:52Do not click on anywhere.
12:54He tells Anne to wait, giving him opportunity to copy the code displayed in the email.
13:01With that, he can use the £100 gift card.
13:05But he's not going to stop there.
13:08He talks her into starting the whole process again.
13:13Now, once you click on send gift card by email, you need to put your mail again in your email
13:18address.
13:20Yeah.
13:21All right.
13:22Now, in the message, you need to write there cancellation.
13:25And think she's cancelling multiple £100 gift cards.
13:31But in fact, she risks losing more and more of her money.
13:37Now, you need to click on £100 again if you see any options like £100.
13:42Actually, it's paying to my email address from my email address.
13:48Yes, miss, because we are requesting an actual cancellation.
13:51Now, what options do you see there?
13:53You've secured your £100 gift card.
13:58The GA's in about ten minutes, are we now?
14:01Right, okay, thanks, Mark.
14:02Ten minutes out.
14:03Scammers can do a lot of damage in ten minutes.
14:06The ground team are only a few miles away from Anne's home.
14:12We know she's not there, but it's the only address we have for her.
14:18There's a lot of traffic here.
14:20It's showing all red.
14:23And every second that passes, the more time the scammer has to steal her money.
14:30The total amount which is going to refund it to you, it's £1,398, okay?
14:37He's trying to set up payments now for larger amounts of money.
14:40I'm going to just keep bombarding her with the landline.
14:47Let's phone her again.
14:50Can you just block the number if they keep trying to call you again?
14:53You know what? I'm just going to see what my bank number is.
14:57Because if it is my bank...
15:01We can see our calls and messages popping up on Anne's phone.
15:06Come on, she's got to get the sense something's not right.
15:09We know that we are slowing the scam down.
15:14Allowing Harriet and Mia to close in.
15:18Okay, so straight up here.
15:20But the scammer is just minutes away from stealing more of Anne's money.
15:27Now, once you log into Starling, you need to select business there.
15:31Because this is a business account, which is going to go...
15:34Okay, right, okay.
15:37He's now talking Anne into making a bank transfer.
15:45Oh, my God, these tools drive me mad.
15:48All we can do is wait for Harriet and Mia to reach her address.
15:54Three minutes away.
15:57So close.
15:59Come on.
16:01And keep bombarding her with calls...
16:05..and messages.
16:06Texting again.
16:08Two minutes away.
16:10Soat code.
16:11The soat code is six zero.
16:14The scammer gives Anne the details for what appears to be a mule account.
16:19She could now be about to send him a large amount of money.
16:25Okay, just click on that.
16:27Now, what do you see next?
16:29Enter my password.
16:31Okay, that must be your bank password, you must know.
16:35Harriet and Mia are just one minute away.
16:38I mean, it's fine.
16:39She's seconds away from doing a bank transfer.
16:42Oh, what are you doing?
16:46Good luck, guys.
16:46That one, that one.
16:48There's a few big... I think it must be that one.
16:51Yeah, we think so.
16:53As we watch on...
16:57..they arrive at Anne's house.
17:00Okay.
17:01I think this is the one.
17:08You got it?
17:13Hi there, is there an Anne that lives here?
17:15Erm, yeah.
17:17Okay, sorry.
17:18Sorry, my name's Harriet, I work for the BBC.
17:20We work for Program Caller Scam Interceptors.
17:22We're able to overhear the fact that she's currently on the phone to a scammer,
17:25so we need to get in touch with her as soon as possible.
17:28The man is Anne's husband.
17:31We need to...
17:32She's like her, you see.
17:33She's quite... she's quite astute.
17:34Honestly, they're... they're so clever.
17:38He sends her a text.
17:42She calls straight back.
17:45Anne, have you been on the phone to PayPal?
17:51Erm, I've been told it's a scam.
17:54Yeah, erm...
17:55She needs to hang up the phone and not transfer any money.
17:58Hang up the phone?
18:00I've got... I've got some people from the BBC.
18:02She needs to not transfer any money.
18:04Don't transfer any money.
18:05It's the most important thing, don't give any details.
18:09Alright, she's got to get rid of them.
18:13Anne hangs up.
18:15Oh, well done, well done, well done.
18:17Oh my gosh, you've just... she was literally...
18:19..literally about to transfer money.
18:23Harriet updates the hub.
18:25We stopped it!
18:27Yay!
18:28Amazing!
18:30Well, that was a very, very bewildered husband
18:33just opened the door then.
18:34Erm, so Anne was actually down the road
18:36just having a nails done.
18:39I knew it!
18:40We knew she was at home.
18:41So, she's... she's just basically finishing off
18:44having her nails done.
18:45And then they've invited us to go back round
18:48in, sort of, ten, fifteen minutes' time.
18:50Excellent.
18:51Erm, to kind of debrief.
18:52But he was ever so grateful.
18:54And, erm, yeah, they'd love to chat to you guys
18:57once she's, you know, had, er...
18:58Got her fresh ones on.
19:00Fair, yeah, yeah, I understand.
19:02We all want to look our best.
19:06We do need to talk to Anne,
19:08who might not realise that the scammer
19:10had sight of her bank account
19:13and may have already cashed in two £100 gift cards.
19:17Hi, Ben. Hi.
19:19He was pretty convincing, wasn't he?
19:20Yeah, very, very convincing.
19:22Do you mind me asking,
19:23how close did you come to doing that bank transfer
19:25right at the end?
19:26We were very close.
19:27Actually very close.
19:29It kept going through my head.
19:30Why would I be transferring from one account to the other
19:33if the scammers knew both the accounts
19:35and it kept going through and going through?
19:37And I have checked both my banks and PayPal.
19:40So far, so good.
19:42Nothing's been taken, but...
19:44That's brilliant.
19:45Yeah.
19:46I'm just ashamed of myself and embarrassed
19:48and just, erm, just feel stupid.
19:52Completely stupid.
19:53I never thought anyone would get me
19:55and they did very easily.
19:57I know it's easy to say but hard to do,
20:00but I just encourage you, Anne,
20:01to not beat yourself up about this
20:03because that guy was smooth
20:04and he was incredibly professional
20:06and just, yeah, dangerously good at what he does, I'm afraid.
20:09Yeah.
20:10So look, I'm very glad that we were able to get your husband
20:12to get through to you before that bank transfer went through.
20:15So the gift cards are really important.
20:18So when you went into your emails,
20:20there was a code at the bottom for the gift cards
20:22and I do have a feeling he's probably taken a note of that code
20:27and that's how he'll be able to access that money.
20:29Well look, hopefully you'll be able to sort the rest of it out
20:32by having a conversation with your bank,
20:33having a conversation with Apple
20:34and I have to ask before we go,
20:36we've got to see these nails, Anne.
20:38Yeah, let's see these gorgeous nails.
20:41Hey!
20:42They are very nice.
20:43All right, bye-bye.
20:43Take care, guys.
20:44Thanks so much.
20:45Thank you. Bye-bye.
20:46Bye.
20:51I'm going to run a few security checks on your account.
20:57Over the next few days,
20:59we continue to monitor the PayPal scammers
21:03to find out more about them.
21:05Well, it seems to me that somebody's trying to hack into your details
21:09at the moment
21:09or it's maybe possible somebody got hold
21:12on your PayPal account credentials.
21:15And now joined by our ethical hacker Jim Browning,
21:18we begin to get a feel for how they operate.
21:21I need to go ahead and report
21:23this is the fraudulent charge to my billing team.
21:26As with Anne,
21:27our smooth-talking scammer pretends to be the good guy.
21:31Then after we'll go ahead and cancel all the charges
21:34and we'll register the complaint with the Action Fraud UK Police.
21:38OK?
21:39We even hear him saying he'll liaise with Action Fraud,
21:43now known as Report Fraud,
21:45the UK's national reporting centre for fraud and cybercrime.
21:50This amount should not left your account, OK?
21:56We also hear another female voice.
21:59Hello, this is PayPal support.
22:01We just received a miss-fall from this number.
22:04Can we allow?
22:06And a lot of background noise.
22:09So you have received...
22:10You have received the cancellation confirmation
22:12of all the charges, right?
22:15Oh, he's at home.
22:17Yeah, children and stuff.
22:18Yeah.
22:19Yeah, well, the squeaking door is, like, pretty indicative
22:22of a home setting.
22:24Yeah.
22:24For me, it's the children at home chatting in the background
22:28with what sounds like probably mum.
22:30They're talking about eating dinner.
22:33There's two of them working in this room.
22:35It sounds like maybe a couple, a man and a woman.
22:39For sure.
22:40And they keep talking shop to each other.
22:42They're clearly in collaboration.
22:44Initially, it was the man on the phone to this potential victim.
22:46Now it's the woman on the phone to her.
22:49In order to cancel up this transaction,
22:51we need to get you connected to the secure server of the PayPal.
22:57A few days later, we also discover that they know about us.
23:03One of our scammers is watching the show.
23:07Oh.
23:07Nope.
23:08Look at your computers.
23:09OK.
23:11It seems that they are as interested in our work as we are in theirs.
23:17I definitely think these guys need to be held to account.
23:19We've got to try and get them on the phone,
23:21and we've got this customer number to call.
23:22We have a telephone number from the emails they send out
23:27to lure their targets into the scam.
23:30Time now for us to give it a call.
23:37Right, let's give the PayPal scammer a bell.
23:46PHONE RINGS
23:57Hello?
24:00Hung up on you.
24:02Answered very briefly and then hung up.
24:04Couldn't hear anything.
24:05No.
24:06Our smooth-talking scammers gone all shy on us.
24:12PHONE RINGS
24:13I try again.
24:17PHONE RINGS
24:20Hello?
24:21Hello?
24:22Hi there, who's that?
24:23Hello?
24:26Hi, who's that?
24:29Sorry?
24:31Who's that, please?
24:34Who are you?
24:36Who am I?
24:37My name's Rav Wildin.
24:39What's your name, my friend?
24:43What do you need?
24:45I need some help.
24:48I need some help to understand the operation that you're running.
24:53I think you got some mistake.
24:56I think you got a wrong number.
24:58Oh, I'm so sorry.
24:59I'm trying to speak to the person who's running an illegal operation
25:02pretending to be PayPal.
25:03My name's Rav Wildin from the Scam Interceptor programme
25:05made by the BBC in the UK.
25:08Why are you trying to scam people?
25:10No, I'm so sorry.
25:11I think you got a wrong number.
25:13Oh, right, okay.
25:14So what's your name then?
25:17All right.
25:18What's your name?
25:20Hang up again.
25:21Try a video call.
25:28The scammer isn't answering.
25:30He's not interested, is he?
25:32He's not going to interact.
25:33He's not.
25:34He knows he's busted.
25:35He is way busted.
25:37But I want to make sure he knows exactly what we do
25:41and that we're on to his criminal operation.
25:47I send him a message.
25:50This is Rav Wildin from the Scam Interceptor programme.
25:53It's made by the BBC in the UK.
25:55We know the user of this mobile number is operating illegal activities.
26:01We know you are scammers.
26:03We know people are losing money.
26:05We know what you're doing is illegal.
26:08We've tried to contact you several times to give you the opportunity to explain yourself.
26:13We will follow up with details of how you can speak to us if you wish to do so, but
26:18we will be passing all our findings to the authorities where you live.
26:25Spot on.
26:25No, it's really good.
26:28And it's sending, it's sending, it's sending.
26:31Come on.
26:32OK, one tick.
26:33Wait for number two.
26:35If our message gets two ticks, then I know that the scammer has received it.
26:42OK, two ticks, guys.
26:43So there we go.
26:44The video's been sent.
26:45It's been delivered.
26:46I would very much like to be there at the moment that this guy who's actually watched our show on
26:50his computer opens that video and sees your face staring back at him.
26:54I think he's going to be quite concerned.
26:56Don't look that bad, Nick.
26:57Yes.
26:59But he has seen it.
27:00He's seen the show.
27:01He's watched it.
27:01And now suddenly there's the video from this scam hub with us saying, we know your scammers.
27:06We're calling you out.
27:07We are sending everything as part of our investigation, all our findings to the authorities.
27:13Anne lost £200 in the gift card scam, but nothing from her bank account.
27:19Since filming, the PayPal scammers have gone underground and we haven't heard from them since.
27:25But we will continue to monitor them and report our findings to the authorities in India.
27:33If you think you've been scammed, then there are some steps you need to take straight away.
27:39Firstly, and most importantly, call your bank.
27:42The number is usually on the back of your bank card.
27:45Then remove any software that scammers asked you to install on your phone or laptop.
27:50Change your passwords on as many online accounts as you can and then keep a close eye on them over
27:55the coming days to see if there's any unusual activity.
27:59Contact Report Fraud.
28:00Go to reportfraud.police.uk or call 0300 123 2040.
28:06If you're in Scotland, report the crime to the police on 101.
28:11And if you've had a scam text, report that to 7726.
28:15That's spam as it's written on your phone's keypad.
28:18The more that you report, the more that could be done to stop them.
28:22.
28:24.
28:24.
28:24.
28:24.
28:24.
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