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Finding Your Roots - Season 12 - Episode 03: Caribbean Roots
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00:15I'm Henry Louis Gates, Jr.
00:18Welcome to Finding Your Roots.
00:21In this episode, we'll meet Delroy Lindo and Liza Colon Zayas,
00:27two actors hoping to learn secrets that their ancestors tried to hide.
00:33Pieces of myself are being filled in.
00:37If this is a jigsaw, you know, this is another piece in the jigsaw.
00:42I want the next generation to know that we didn't just emerge out of the South Bronx.
00:47You know, that we have a long, rich history.
00:52To uncover their roots, we've used every tool available.
00:57Genealogists comb through paper trails stretching back hundreds of years.
01:01Get out of here.
01:02While DNA experts utilize the latest advances in genetic analysis
01:07to reveal secrets that have lain hidden for generations.
01:11This is epic.
01:13And we've compiled it all into a book of life.
01:16A record of everything we found.
01:19That fascinates the hell out of me.
01:21Did you ever think you would learn the name of an enslaved ancestor?
01:25I thought I might.
01:27I thought I might.
01:28But it breaks my heart and I'm crying.
01:31Not because it's a total shock to me.
01:34It's because now there is a name to this person.
01:37My two guests have deep roots in Jamaica and Puerto Rico.
01:41But their parents left those roots behind and rarely spoke about them,
01:48burying their family's stories in the past.
01:51In this episode, those stories will be unearthed,
01:56forever altering how Delroy and Liza see themselves.
02:44Delroy Lindo may seem like a tough guy,
02:48but the imposing actor with the ice-cold stare
02:51is nothing like the fierce men he's portrayed on screen.
02:56In fact, in person, Delroy is warm, thoughtful, and profoundly sensitive.
03:04And when he tells his story, you understand why.
03:10Delroy was born in England, the son of Jamaican immigrants.
03:14He was raised in London by his mother,
03:17a nurse who struggled mightily
03:19in a place where she was made to feel like an outsider.
03:22As the only black child in his elementary school,
03:26Delroy often felt like an outsider himself.
03:30But when he was cast as one of the wise men
03:33in the school's Christmas pageant,
03:35his life was transformed.
03:39I was in the nativity play as a five-year-old
03:42when I played Balthazar.
03:44Yeah.
03:45The wise man of color.
03:49And I, um...
03:52But what it was,
03:54and this is what I've learned relatively recently,
03:58it was not the, the, the aspect of performing.
04:03Even though that was wonderful,
04:05what it was,
04:07was the teacher who was, um,
04:11directing the pageant, the play,
04:15singled me out as an example of what to do.
04:19Huh.
04:20Watch what Delroy does.
04:22Uh-huh.
04:23Do it like that.
04:24What she was talking about was projecting.
04:26Uh-huh.
04:26But she didn't say that.
04:28She, just the way that I was saying the lines.
04:30And she used me as an example,
04:31and I believe that was an, an affirmation for me.
04:35Yeah.
04:36That was an affirmation,
04:37and that's when a, a dime dropped
04:39that, that I was affirmed
04:42in a very singular way.
04:47That teacher put Delroy
04:49on the path he's still following today,
04:52but the journey would be a circuitous one.
04:56Over the next few years,
04:58Delroy and his mother would move from England to Canada,
05:02and then finally to the United States,
05:05where Delroy would begin to study acting in earnest.
05:09But it would take him over a decade to find success,
05:13much to his mother's dismay.
05:17One of the things that my mom had a really, really,
05:19really hard time understanding,
05:21and I, and I, and I understand,
05:23that, okay, you go and you work in the theater,
05:25and you, you, you, you go and you, you, you rehearse.
05:29You work for eight weeks.
05:31You rehearse for four weeks,
05:33and then you perform for, for, for another four weeks.
05:35And then you're unemployed.
05:38And she'd go, what's this about?
05:39What do you mean?
05:39You maybe get a job,
05:40and then you don't have a job?
05:42Mm-hmm.
05:42And then, and what happens in between?
05:43Mm-hmm.
05:45A foreign con, an alien concept.
05:47Yeah, but most people don't understand that.
05:49This is true.
05:50Most parents don't, you know?
05:50No, this is true.
05:51Yeah.
05:51But, but for, for the Caribbean,
05:53and I, not, not necessarily just the Caribbean people,
05:58but for any, any, any, anybody who comes from a generation
06:02for whom education was everything.
06:06Everything.
06:07Everything.
06:08And then once you got your education,
06:10you found a solid occupation
06:14that was going to allow you to, to, to make your way through life.
06:18Right.
06:18And acting was not it.
06:19So you, did you break her heart?
06:21Yes.
06:21When you set up a being actor?
06:23Yes.
06:23And she said, what's wrong with you?
06:24I could, yes, all of the above.
06:27I could have just as well have said,
06:30I'm going to the moon, ma.
06:34Delroy eventually put his mother's fears to rest.
06:38In 1992, when he was 40 years old,
06:42he landed a role as a Harlem gangster
06:45in Spike Lee's masterpiece, Malcolm X,
06:49and found fame.
06:52He's worked almost constantly ever since,
06:55while also navigating an industry that can be fickle,
06:59particularly towards actors of color.
07:03But looking back on all he's achieved,
07:06Delroy's greatest pride is a simple one.
07:09He stayed true to his craft and true to himself.
07:14I'm proudest of the fact that the relationship between art and commerce,
07:21even though I have made missteps for sure,
07:26but it hasn't destroyed me.
07:31And I'm really proud of that.
07:35If you could go back to the nativity play and pull Balthazar aside,
07:46what would you say to your young self?
07:48If there is anything else that you can do and be happy,
07:56do that.
07:57Right.
07:58No, I'm serious.
08:00If you genuinely feel, in making this decision to become an actor,
08:09that this is your destiny, however you interpret that,
08:13don't let anybody stop you.
08:15Mm-hmm.
08:15But for God's sake, if there's anything else you can do and be happy, do that.
08:20Why?
08:21It's a beautiful craft.
08:23Yeah.
08:24But you've got to know what you're getting into.
08:26Yeah.
08:29My second guest is Emmy Award-winning actor Liza Colon Zayas,
08:36famed for her star turn in Hulu's hit series, The Bear.
08:40Much like Delroy, Liza grew up far from the spotlight.
08:45Both of her parents are Puerto Rican,
08:47and Liza was raised in a housing project in New York City
08:51at a time when there were very few Latinos in Hollywood.
08:57But even so, that did not stop her from dreaming.
09:01As a child watching television,
09:04she became enthralled with the Partridge family
09:06and hatched a plan to change her life,
09:10a plan that her older brothers would thwart,
09:13but only after Liza had taken it to an extreme.
09:19And I had the biggest crush on Keith Partridge,
09:22but I wanted to be one of the siblings, which is problematic.
09:25I don't know.
09:26But I was like, I want to live in a multicolored bus
09:30and play the tambourine and be with, you know,
09:33and she's a single mom.
09:34They're doing good.
09:36It seemed like everything happy was happening in California
09:41with the sunshine and the palm trees and everything looked great.
09:43So I wrote this whole letter that I was going to run away.
09:46I'm going to replace the little girl, Tracy,
09:50and, you know, this is what I'm going to do, okay?
09:52I don't know.
09:52My plan was, like, to take a taxi or something.
09:55I don't know.
09:55But my, I think my, one, I don't know which one,
09:59one of them found the letter and opened it,
10:03and just, they began to have the biggest laugh.
10:08The hugest laugh of my crush, of my, of this idea,
10:14and then I was, like, later for you.
10:21As it turns out, Liza would not be able
10:24to hold back her dreams much longer.
10:27After high school, she enrolled at the University of Albany
10:32as a business major, but soon switched to acting.
10:37Was there a, a, a click moment, a certain moment
10:40when you said, I'm not going to be an accountant.
10:43I am going on the stage.
10:45Yeah.
10:45My boyfriend at the time, well-meaning, please,
10:49I just, he was like, yeah, I don't think anybody
10:52wants to see a chubby Latino on TV.
10:55Oh, that's terrible.
10:56But he meant well.
10:57Mm-hmm.
10:57And, and.
10:58And he was Latino?
11:00Yeah, he was Puerto Rican.
11:02Yep, yep.
11:03Professional.
11:05And he was, like, I want us to be a family
11:07that, you know, has, you know, combined income,
11:11that's really good, and live in the suburbs.
11:14And he had these dreams.
11:15And I've, as a person already feeling unworthy
11:20of anything good, you know, it's like, okay,
11:23so maybe I'll, I don't know, I'll, I'll study economics.
11:27Mm-hmm.
11:27But then I saw that there was a, a, an original piece
11:32being performed in Albany, written and created
11:36by the, uh, indigenous women.
11:38Mm-hmm.
11:39And I went and I watched it, and I was like,
11:40that's it, I'm gonna do it.
11:43Liza has never regretted that decision,
11:46though it wasn't easy to make it pay off.
11:49After college, she returned to New York City,
11:52moved in with her mother, and set out to find work.
11:56She started slowly, with small roles in off-Broadway plays.
12:02But everything changed in 1995, when she wrote, produced,
12:08and starred in Sista Supreme, a one-woman show
12:13based on her own childhood.
12:16The show took Liza's career to the next level.
12:21But more importantly, it helped her understand
12:24how she wanted to represent herself and her people.
12:30I don't want to play sanitized characters.
12:32Mm-hmm.
12:33That doesn't feel authentic to me or useful.
12:37Um, I like messy characters.
12:40And of course, I'm who I am, so she's gonna be Latina,
12:43she's gonna be Afro-Latina.
12:45But as long as there's humanity,
12:48and people want to see the journey,
12:51and there's nuance, there's layers,
12:54as long as I can bring that to the surface,
12:58you know, at the very least,
13:05if I can reflect our strength,
13:09and our value, our worth,
13:11then no matter how messy it gets,
13:15that's what I wanna, I wanna show.
13:18You know, we survive.
13:20My guests share a common thread.
13:23Both grew up focused on their careers,
13:25with very little knowledge of their family trees.
13:29It was time for that to change.
13:33I started with Delroy,
13:37and with his mother, Anna Moncrief.
13:40Anna was born in Jamaica.
13:43But in 1951, when she was 37 years old,
13:48she left her home behind,
13:50and boarded a ship for England,
13:53seeking work as a nurse.
13:55It would be the first of many journeys to come.
14:00Did she ever talk about what inspired her to make the move?
14:05No, she never talked to me about it at all.
14:09I knew, I knew that it was career-oriented.
14:14Mm-hmm.
14:17But my mom never talked to me about it.
14:19Do you think that she liked England?
14:22No.
14:22No?
14:24Why not?
14:24I just think it was too difficult,
14:30too racist, too confining,
14:34too...
14:38debilitating.
14:39Mm-hmm.
14:40And this is one of the things that I really respect about my mom.
14:44And the respect that I have for my mom
14:47has increased retrospectively
14:53because I just feel like my mom saw the handwriting on the wall
14:57in England,
14:59in the United Kingdom,
15:01and got the hell out.
15:02Right.
15:02And it was a good thing.
15:04And it was a good thing.
15:07Getting out of England
15:09may have been a good thing,
15:11but it wasn't easy.
15:13In 1958, when Delroy was five years old,
15:17his mother sent him to live with another family in London
15:20and set off for Canada,
15:22where nurses were in high demand.
15:25She and Delroy would be separated
15:28for almost seven years.
15:31We uncovered the passenger list of the Arcadia.
15:35The ship that took Anna to Canada.
15:37It offered Delroy a glimpse of his mother
15:41at that pivotal moment.
15:44Yep.
15:49What's it like to see then?
15:57On some...
16:00On some level, it's kind of mind-blowing
16:02because seeing this is just profoundly affirming
16:11for things, for feelings that I have,
16:17that I have and have had
16:20about my mom's history
16:25and about how my mom lived her life.
16:28And here is the tangible evidence of that.
16:35And I'm not...
16:36I'm not really...
16:38I'm not sure why it's...
16:40It's moving.
16:42It's...
16:43It's...
16:43It's emotionally impactful,
16:45but it is.
16:51Ultimately, Emma was able to make a home for herself
16:54and bring Delroy from London to Canada.
16:58But along the way,
17:00like many immigrants,
17:01she chose to block out her past.
17:05And Delroy's roots in Jamaica
17:06were a blank slate.
17:10We set out to fill them in,
17:12beginning with Anna's birth record,
17:15which contains a wealth of information
17:18about her family.
17:20We suspect that the informant listed here,
17:23a man named George Moncrief,
17:25was a relative of Anna's father,
17:28Delroy's grandfather,
17:30Henry Moncrief.
17:32And the name listed here,
17:34Ida Lang,
17:35is Anna's mother,
17:38Delroy's grandmother.
17:39Ever heard of her?
17:41No.
17:44Wow.
17:44And you notice something
17:46else about that record?
17:49Name of Father Blank.
17:50So you know what that means?
17:53What?
17:54We suspect that your grandparents,
17:57Henry and Ida,
17:57weren't married at the time
17:59your mother was born.
18:00Yes, right.
18:00And in fact,
18:01the register clerks in Jamaica
18:02followed an old English law
18:05that if the parents were not married,
18:07the father's name would not be listed
18:08on the birth certificate.
18:10Blank.
18:10Yeah.
18:10That was the signal.
18:13Yep.
18:14Makes sense.
18:15Did your mother ever talk about this?
18:18Not at all.
18:20Henry and Ida had two children together,
18:23but chose not to marry.
18:25And while we don't know anything
18:27about the nature of their relationship,
18:29we do know that it didn't last long
18:33because records show that in 1928,
18:37Henry married a woman named Letitia Beckford.
18:42So this is my grandfather
18:46finally marrying somebody else.
18:49Someone else, yeah.
18:51That's your grandfather, Henry,
18:52getting married to someone
18:53other than your grandmother, Ida.
18:55Other than the woman he's had these kids with.
18:58Yeah.
18:59And your mom was 14 years old at the time
19:03when her father married another woman.
19:07I don't know what the...
19:12I didn't know this, but it all makes sense.
19:15Mm-hmm.
19:17And...
19:18Oh, man.
19:27It's cons...
19:29Not the specifics of my grandfather
19:33marrying another woman.
19:36Not the specifics of that, per se.
19:39But it's consistent with some things
19:43that my aunt told me
19:47about certain things that had happened
19:50that impacted them as children.
19:52Mm-hmm.
19:52Hmm.
19:53And that some of these things
19:56that happened when they were children
19:59had impacted my mother very negatively,
20:03harshly.
20:03Hmm.
20:05Now, I don't know if it's this, per se,
20:07a day, but it's just consistent
20:09with an impression that one has,
20:17an impression that one has
20:19that gradually becomes less impressionistic
20:24and more specific.
20:27Mm-hmm.
20:27It's as if figures are emerging through a fog.
20:33We now began to follow the roots
20:36of Delroy's grandmother, Ida,
20:39tracking back to her grandparents,
20:41Delroy's great-great-grandparents,
20:44a couple named James Lang
20:46and Margaret Campbell.
20:48We believe they both were born in Jamaica
20:51in the early 1800s,
20:54when the island was one
20:56of Great Britain's richest colonies,
20:58with an economy powered by slavery.
21:03Searching for traces of their lives,
21:06we uncovered a registry
21:08of Jamaica's enslaved population
21:11from the year 1826.
21:14It lists the names of thousands
21:17of enslaved people,
21:18including several hundred
21:20owned by a sugar planter
21:22who shared the surname
21:24of Delroy's ancestors,
21:27Lang.
21:28And one of these names stood out.
21:32Margaret Campbell.
21:34Color, Negro, age, two.
21:38African or Creole?
21:40Creole.
21:40So we have gone back
21:42into the bowels of slavery
21:44and found your ancestor by name
21:47and found the name of the white man
21:48who owned her.
21:49Owned her.
21:50Yeah.
21:52And that's where the Lang name came from.
21:55That's right.
21:55You got it.
21:56She was held at the Goshen Estate.
21:58We've marked its location right there.
22:01Goshen.
22:02You've been anywhere near there?
22:03No.
22:05You going to go there now?
22:06Absolutely.
22:06Because you've got roots there.
22:07Absolutely.
22:09Absolutely.
22:12Margaret was likely born
22:14on this estate
22:14in the early 1820s.
22:17And as we combed
22:19through the estate's archives,
22:20we made a precious discovery.
22:22Margaret's mother,
22:25a woman named Louisa Thomas,
22:27is listed by name
22:29on multiple documents.
22:32Louisa is Delroy's
22:33third great-grandmother.
22:35She was born in the year 1797,
22:39meaning that Delroy's maternal roots
22:42can be traced back
22:44to the 18th century
22:46in a continuous paper trail.
22:50What's it been like
22:51for you to learn
22:51about your mother's family
22:53in so much depth?
22:58It's been...
23:03elevating.
23:06It's been elevating.
23:15And if...
23:21my response,
23:23you know,
23:24it's...
23:26my response has brevity.
23:28It's just because I can't...
23:29I can't articulate everything.
23:31I can't articulate...
23:33Of course.
23:34But if...
23:35I feel like I'm a...
23:38Well, a comet does that,
23:39but I feel like I'm...
23:40a comet in reverse.
23:42What would your mom
23:43have made of this?
23:46I'm sure my mother
23:47would have appreciated this, man.
23:49Mm-hmm.
23:50I'm...
23:50I'm...
23:52I...
23:52Because it's...
23:53You know,
23:54it's healing.
23:55Yeah, it is.
23:58And if anybody needed
23:59to be healed,
24:00it was my mom.
24:01Mm-hmm.
24:01And myself, yes.
24:02Mm-hmm.
24:03But my mom needed healing.
24:05My mom needed a laying on of hands.
24:07My mom needed a laying...
24:09laying on of hands
24:10that she didn't even know
24:11she needed.
24:14Like Delroy,
24:16Liza Colonzeus
24:17grew up very close
24:19to her mother,
24:19but came to me
24:20knowing little
24:21about her maternal roots.
24:24We started one generation back
24:26with Liza's grandfather,
24:29Pablo Marrero Almestica.
24:32Pablo was born
24:33in Puerto Rico
24:34in 1905.
24:36As a young man,
24:38he spent years
24:39struggling to support himself,
24:41moving from job to job
24:43in an economy
24:44that had been devastated
24:45by the Great Depression.
24:48Finally,
24:49when he was in his 30s,
24:51already with a wife
24:52and children,
24:53he joined the United States
24:55Merchant Marines,
24:56a decision
24:57that would change his life.
25:01arriving at New York,
25:02name in full,
25:04Pablo M. Almestica,
25:06fire and water tender.
25:09Pablo M. Almestica.
25:11So you know
25:12what you're looking at.
25:13Yes.
25:14There's your grandfather
25:14working on a ship
25:15called the SS Black Eagle.
25:17What's it like
25:17to see that ship?
25:18I never saw full pictures
25:22of him on the ship.
25:23I would see,
25:24like there were pictures
25:26of him down
25:26in the basement
25:28working on machines
25:30or in his little bunk
25:31on, you know,
25:33on deck posing,
25:34but I never saw,
25:36wow,
25:37the size of this.
25:41What have you heard
25:42about his job
25:43in the Merchant Marines?
25:46I don't,
25:47I never understood it.
25:50I never really understood
25:52what he did.
25:53Well, as you read,
25:54he was a fireman
25:55in water tender,
25:56which means that
25:57he was running
25:58and maintaining
25:59the ship's boilers.
26:01So it was hot
26:02and very dirty work.
26:03And when he was on a job,
26:04he'd ship out for days
26:06or even months
26:07at a time.
26:08Can you imagine
26:09living and working
26:10on a ship like that
26:11for months?
26:13Mm-mm.
26:13He never wanted
26:14to go to the beach
26:15after they went
26:16to Puerto Rico.
26:17Yeah.
26:18I wanted to go,
26:19he never wanted
26:19to see the beach again.
26:22Though he may not
26:24have enjoyed
26:24being on the water,
26:26Pablo stuck
26:27with the Merchant Marines,
26:28likely because
26:29they paid well
26:30and brought the stability
26:32he'd been seeking
26:33for so long.
26:35Even so,
26:36the job was very hard
26:38on his family.
26:39When he wasn't
26:40on his ship,
26:41Pablo was rarely able
26:43to return to Puerto Rico
26:44as his base
26:45was in New York City.
26:47The situation
26:49became so stressful
26:50that Liza's grandmother
26:52eventually decided
26:53to join him
26:54in New York
26:55with their children.
26:56Did you know that?
26:59I knew that,
27:00yeah,
27:00my mom didn't
27:02really know her father
27:03until she was 11.
27:05Mm-hmm.
27:06Because he had been
27:06away at sea
27:07all of those years.
27:08so she was confused
27:10as to who this man was
27:12and telling her
27:13what to do
27:14and all.
27:14Don't you have
27:15a ship to catch?
27:19Yes.
27:20That had to have been
27:21hard on your grandmother.
27:22Yeah,
27:22she was trying to
27:27just survive
27:32as basically
27:33a single mom
27:34in a country
27:34where she didn't
27:36know the language
27:36at all.
27:37Oh, my God.
27:38Can you imagine?
27:38Very strong.
27:41And she kept,
27:42you know,
27:42so much of it inside.
27:45We now turn
27:46to Liza's deeper roots
27:48and discovered
27:49something surprising
27:50in the marriage record
27:52of her grandfather's father,
27:54a man named
27:55Pablo Marrero Adolfo.
28:00Natural son of Juliana.
28:02Natural son of Juliana.
28:04Do you know what that means,
28:05natural son?
28:05No.
28:06I assume
28:07gave birth to him?
28:09It means his mother
28:10was not married
28:11at the time
28:12of his birth.
28:14There were
28:14two categories,
28:16legitimate
28:17or natural.
28:18And natural means
28:19the mother
28:20was not married
28:21to the father
28:22of the child.
28:25Wow.
28:27So your grandfather's
28:29father was,
28:30as we say,
28:31born out of wedlock.
28:32Did you have any idea?
28:34No.
28:35This is a wild ride.
28:37It is.
28:38This is...
28:40Wow.
28:43This story
28:44was about to take
28:45a somber turn.
28:47Pablo's mother,
28:48Juliana,
28:49was not only
28:50unmarried,
28:50she was also
28:52enslaved.
28:54Records show
28:54that she was born
28:55into slavery
28:56on the island
28:57of Guadalupe
28:57and then,
28:59as a young woman,
29:00brought to Puerto Rico
29:01to work in the
29:02household of a
29:03sugar planter.
29:05Though Liza knew
29:06that slavery
29:07had played a
29:07significant role
29:08in Puerto Rico's
29:09past,
29:10seeing it connected
29:12directly to her family
29:13with such specificity
29:15was profoundly emotional.
29:19Wow.
29:22Did you ever think
29:24that you would
29:26learn the name
29:27of an enslaved
29:28ancestor?
29:31I thought I might.
29:33I thought I might.
29:34But it breaks my heart
29:36and I'm crying,
29:37not because it's
29:38a total shock to me.
29:39Mm-hmm.
29:40It's because now
29:41there is a name
29:41to this person.
29:43Oh, yeah.
29:47We had one more
29:49name to share
29:50with Liza,
29:50the name of the man
29:52who fathered
29:53Juliana's son.
29:54He was called
29:55Amadei Marrero,
29:57and this was
29:58especially meaningful
29:59to Liza
30:00because Amadei
30:01was a nickname
30:03that her grandfather
30:04chose for himself
30:06and used
30:07throughout his life.
30:09That's where
30:10he got the nickname?
30:11That's where
30:11he got the nickname.
30:13And we also
30:14suspect that
30:15like Juliana,
30:17Amadei may
30:18also have been
30:18enslaved.
30:19We just can't
30:20prove it.
30:22Because remember,
30:23she's enslaved.
30:24Yeah.
30:25And there is
30:25your grandfather
30:28bonding to
30:29this family
30:30tradition,
30:31bonding.
30:31Your grandfather
30:32is bonding
30:33to his grandfather.
30:35So that would
30:36make Don Amadei
30:39my great-great-great
30:41grandfather.
30:42father.
30:42That's wild.
30:45That's wild.
30:46How do you think
30:46your mother will react
30:47when she finds out
30:48about all this?
30:52Yeah.
30:54I got to come over
30:56with a bottle
30:56of a coquito
30:57and then we're
30:58going to have to sit
30:59in it.
31:01Her whole reality
31:02is going to get
31:03shaken.
31:05We'd already
31:05explored the secrets
31:07hidden in Delroy
31:08Lindo's mother's
31:09family tree.
31:10Now, we
31:12encountered a man
31:13whose entire life
31:14was shrouded in
31:15secrets.
31:17Delroy's own
31:18father, Ivan Lindo.
31:20Like Delroy's
31:21mother, Ivan
31:23immigrated to
31:23England from
31:24Jamaica.
31:25But this shared
31:26experience did not
31:28find Delroy's
31:29parents together.
31:30To the contrary,
31:32Delroy told me that
31:33he only saw his
31:34father a few times
31:36over the course
31:37of his life
31:38and that their
31:39interactions were
31:40almost always
31:42painful, leaving
31:43Delroy, even now,
31:46still trying to
31:47make sense of Ivan.
31:49There are a couple
31:50of possibilities as
31:52to why he was the
31:52way he was.
31:54One possibility is
31:55that he just was
31:58a sociopath who
32:01couldn't do any
32:02better.
32:03The other
32:04possibility is
32:12that, and this
32:14is something we're
32:17all aware of as
32:20black men, he
32:22just was beaten
32:23and battered and
32:26devalued and told
32:28he was nothing
32:31constantly, despite
32:32the fact that you
32:32look at this
32:33photograph and you
32:34see he had a sense
32:34of himself.
32:35Yeah, he's a
32:36handsome man.
32:36Yeah.
32:37Yeah.
32:37And despite
32:38whatever his sense
32:39of himself was,
32:41there was no
32:42outlet for that.
32:43Yeah.
32:43And so, you
32:44know, how can
32:45one be constantly
32:47knocked around and
32:48not be impacted by
32:49that?
32:49That's right.
32:50And I think that's
32:50part of, I think
32:52that's a significant
32:53part of what
32:54happened with him.
32:57and coupled
32:58with whatever his
32:59natural tendencies
33:02were, it made
33:03for an individual
33:05who certainly
33:08was not as
33:09caring toward my
33:12mom as he could
33:14have been.
33:16Or to his son.
33:17Or to me.
33:19Ivan would prove
33:20to be as complicated
33:21to our researchers as
33:23he was to Delroy,
33:24raising many
33:26questions that we
33:27could not fully
33:28answer.
33:29The first concerns
33:31his name.
33:32There are almost
33:33no records of
33:34anyone named
33:35Ivan Lindo,
33:36either in Jamaica
33:38or England,
33:39that matched
33:39Delroy's father.
33:41The reason?
33:42At some point,
33:43likely in his
33:44youth, Ivan
33:46began to call
33:46himself Austin
33:48Stanford.
33:50Did he ever say
33:51why?
33:51Or do you
33:53know why
33:53he did that?
33:57No and no.
33:58I have a theory.
34:00But no,
34:01I do not know
34:01why he changed
34:02his name.
34:03I don't know
34:04that it was
34:05ever legal.
34:06Yeah,
34:06there is no,
34:07we have found
34:08no record
34:09that he did it
34:10officially.
34:10Yeah.
34:10Yeah.
34:11But I think,
34:12I think,
34:14I surmise that
34:21he did this
34:23because it
34:25was a better
34:26representation.
34:27It sounds
34:28more elegant.
34:30Austin Stanford.
34:31Austin Stanford.
34:33Like Austin Healey,
34:34one of my favorite
34:34cars.
34:35It has a,
34:35yeah,
34:36yeah,
34:36yeah.
34:37It has a,
34:38it has a,
34:38it has a certain
34:39ring to it.
34:40And I think he,
34:41he probably
34:43took that on
34:44as a,
34:45as a way of
34:47presenting himself
34:47in a more
34:48elegant fashion.
34:49When you saw him
34:50later in life,
34:50was he Austin?
34:51Yeah.
34:52He was Austin
34:53the whole,
34:53the whole
34:55time
34:56that I knew him.
34:57Oh,
34:57okay.
34:57I knew,
34:58as my father,
34:58I never knew him
34:59as Ivan Lindo.
35:00I always knew him
35:01as Austin Stanford.
35:03Gotcha.
35:03Well,
35:04knowing that your dad
35:04used that name
35:06proved to be
35:06very helpful
35:07to our researchers.
35:08Let me show you
35:09what we,
35:09what I mean.
35:10Please turn the page.
35:11Okay.
35:14Whoa.
35:17This is a British
35:18electoral roll,
35:20one of dozens
35:21that we found
35:22listing Austin Stanford,
35:24or some variant
35:25of that name.
35:27Taken together,
35:28these rolls show
35:29that Delroy's father
35:31moved around frequently.
35:33Records also show
35:34that in June of 1955,
35:37Delroy's father
35:39chose to do something
35:41that he had not done
35:42with Delroy's mother.
35:44He got married.
35:46Name and surname,
35:48Austin Ivan Stanford,
35:50age 34.
35:53Rank or profession,
35:55machine hand.
35:56Residence at the time
35:57time of marriage,
35:5956 Inch Mary Road,
36:02Catford.
36:03Name and surname,
36:07Ethlyn Med Green.
36:10This is a marriage record
36:11for your father
36:12under the name
36:12Austin Ivan Stanford.
36:14Yep.
36:15This is,
36:15this is par for the course
36:17for my father.
36:18And as much,
36:20what I mean by that
36:21is that,
36:24it doesn't surprise me
36:25that he,
36:27he wasn't thinking
36:28about me,
36:28he wasn't thinking
36:29about my mom.
36:32And so,
36:35I am not surprised
36:36that he,
36:37he got married.
36:39Actually,
36:40this is before
36:41my third birthday.
36:42Oh.
36:44It doesn't surprise me.
36:46Wow.
36:47It's unfortunate.
36:50After his marriage,
36:52Delroy's father
36:53continued his
36:54peripatetic ways,
36:56moving three times
36:57in four years,
36:59before briefly
37:00settling down
37:01in the Lewisham
37:02neighborhood of London.
37:04Delroy told me
37:05that his father
37:06then moved to Toronto,
37:08sometime in the 1970s.
37:10But we couldn't find
37:12any record
37:13of his journey.
37:15In fact,
37:16by that time,
37:17Ivan had completely
37:18vanished
37:19from the paper trail.
37:21He just disappears.
37:24And Delroy,
37:25not one place
37:27have we been able
37:28to find
37:29any evidence
37:30under either
37:31of his two names,
37:33unless he picked
37:34a third name
37:34that we don't know.
37:35You know what?
37:37I have no idea,
37:39but once again,
37:41that doesn't necessarily
37:43surprise me
37:43about my dad.
37:44Man,
37:45we hired researchers
37:46in England,
37:47in Canada,
37:47in Jamaica.
37:48They went over
37:49every single archive
37:50that they could find.
37:51We even had
37:52a conversation
37:52about it.
37:54And,
37:55you know,
37:56because I didn't
37:56want to disappoint you.
37:57I wanted to pull
37:58a rabbit out of the head.
37:59And our head
38:01genetic genealogist
38:02said,
38:03we're not going
38:03to find this guy.
38:04Right.
38:04We have looked
38:05everywhere.
38:06where it will be
38:06a miracle.
38:07So look,
38:09this,
38:09A,
38:10I'm absolutely
38:10not surprised
38:12or disappointed.
38:13I'm not disappointed.
38:14I'm also not surprised
38:16because he,
38:18he disappeared, man.
38:20He has,
38:21he had a habit
38:21of,
38:21just as he,
38:23I mean,
38:25just as he had
38:26a habit of
38:26not showing up
38:28for me
38:30in my life,
38:31not showing up
38:32for my mom
38:33in her life,
38:35flitting in
38:36and out
38:37randomly.
38:39It,
38:39it,
38:40it does not
38:40surprise me
38:41that he,
38:42he randomly
38:45shows up
38:46in Toronto
38:47and nobody,
38:48nobody can figure
38:49out how he got there.
38:50No.
38:50And there's,
38:51and I,
38:52we're expert
38:53on tracking people.
38:54I hear you.
38:56We tried
38:57to learn more
38:57about Delroy's
38:58father
38:59and uncovered
39:00his death certificate,
39:01which reveals
39:03he passed away
39:03in Jamaica
39:04in 1996.
39:07But unfortunately,
39:08after that,
39:10we hit brick wall
39:11after brick wall.
39:13So when our team
39:15built out
39:16Delroy's family tree,
39:18his mother's side
39:19stretched back
39:20into the 1700s
39:21while his father's
39:23contained
39:24just two names,
39:25a stark contrast
39:27that nevertheless
39:28held meaning
39:30to Delroy.
39:32So to look at
39:33this
39:34and to have this
39:35and to have this
39:37is kind of
39:38in keeping
39:39with
39:42unfortunately
39:42what my experience
39:43was.
39:44Yeah,
39:45I'm sorry.
39:46No,
39:46no,
39:46no,
39:46no,
39:46no.
39:47I don't say that
39:48from a place
39:49of disappointment.
39:50I say that
39:51it's,
39:51it's more of a kind
39:52of a pragmatic assessment.
39:54Right.
39:54Right?
39:59And also,
40:01it's curious
40:03as hell
40:04to me
40:05that you say
40:07that none
40:09of your researchers
40:10could find
40:11any evidence
40:12of how he got
40:13from
40:14the United Kingdom
40:16to Canada.
40:18That fascinates
40:19the hell
40:19out of me.
40:20Yeah,
40:20because the shipping
40:21records,
40:22passenger lists,
40:23you know,
40:24we found them
40:24for everybody else.
40:25Right.
40:26But that was,
40:27that was my dad,
40:28man.
40:28Yeah.
40:29This,
40:30this,
40:30this,
40:31um,
40:32this notion
40:33that I have
40:33of him
40:37of,
40:38of,
40:39I'm not,
40:40I will not say
40:41a non-person,
40:42but a shadowy person.
40:44Mm-hmm.
40:45And I,
40:46and I don't,
40:46I don't,
40:47I'm not using
40:48that as pejorative.
40:49Mm-hmm.
40:50I,
40:50I use it
40:51as a,
40:51as a physical,
40:54he's someplace
40:55between being
40:57real,
40:58which I know
40:58he was,
40:59and a,
41:00and an apparition.
41:02Yeah.
41:02And in retrospect,
41:06I'm sure
41:07that none
41:07of his dreams
41:08came true.
41:09None of his aspirations
41:10for himself
41:10were fulfilled.
41:12And that's,
41:12that's so sad.
41:14Yeah,
41:15it is.
41:16We'd already
41:17traced Liza Colon
41:19Zayas'
41:20maternal roots
41:21from New York
41:22to Puerto Rico.
41:23Now,
41:24turning to her
41:25father's ancestry,
41:27we'd followed
41:27a similar path,
41:29only to end up
41:30in a very
41:31different place.
41:33The story begins
41:34with Liza's
41:35grandmother,
41:37Julia
41:37Irisari,
41:38or as her family
41:40called her,
41:41the Little General.
41:43Julia was
41:44born in Puerto Rico
41:45in 1908,
41:47then moved
41:48to New York
41:48as a teenager.
41:50Liza knew
41:51that she had
41:51had a dramatic life,
41:53but Julia herself
41:54rarely spoke about it.
41:58Was she a storyteller?
42:01not really.
42:02No?
42:02Sometimes,
42:03if I asked
42:04direct questions,
42:07she would,
42:08and then,
42:09like,
42:09you know,
42:10I asked her,
42:10like,
42:10what was it like
42:11when you got here?
42:13Or,
42:14you know,
42:14she told me,
42:14like,
42:15the wages,
42:16what she did,
42:18and then I think
42:19I tried to ask
42:20about her parents,
42:21and she was like,
42:22why are you asking
42:22so many questions?
42:24End of conversation.
42:26Yeah.
42:27Well,
42:27I want to show you
42:28what we found.
42:29Could you please
42:30turn the page?
42:33We're back already
42:3464 years.
42:36This is a record
42:37from the city clerk's office
42:38in New York City,
42:39dated November 19,
42:411960.
42:41Would you please
42:42read that transcribed section?
42:44From the bride,
42:46Julia Isari,
42:48number of times
42:49previously married,
42:51once.
42:53I knew it.
42:55Full name
42:56of former husband,
42:58Pedro Mangual.
43:02Wow.
43:05This record indicates
43:07that Liza's grandfather
43:08was not Julia's
43:10first husband.
43:12Digging deeper,
43:13we discovered
43:14that she married
43:15for the first time
43:16when she was just 17
43:18to a man named
43:20Pedro Mangual.
43:22Within three years,
43:24the couple had had
43:25two children together.
43:27But their happiness
43:29didn't last.
43:30In December of 1928,
43:33their youngest child
43:35passed away
43:36when he was just
43:37four months old.
43:42I didn't know
43:43this at all.
43:47Wow.
43:49No wonder she didn't
43:50want to talk about
43:51these things.
43:52She never talked about it.
43:54Hmm.
43:56How do you think
43:57that affected her?
44:02Probably contributed
44:03to the title,
44:04little general.
44:06where she had to
44:07arm her up
44:08and be strong
44:09and carry on.
44:11I would think so.
44:13Oh, my God.
44:16Unfortunately,
44:17Julia would have
44:18to carry on
44:19through a great deal
44:20more heartache.
44:22Four years after
44:23losing her child,
44:25her husband died
44:26of tuberculosis.
44:27And though Julia
44:29would remarry
44:30and start a new family
44:32with Liza's grandfather,
44:34another cruel blow
44:35lay ahead.
44:37When the United States
44:39entered World War II,
44:41Julia's eldest son,
44:43Pedro,
44:44volunteered to serve.
44:45He would be killed,
44:47fighting Japanese forces
44:49in the Pacific.
44:52Pedro is Liza's
44:53half-uncle.
44:54She'd heard
44:55about his fate
44:55but never seen
44:57any evidence of it
44:58until now.
45:00From
45:01Comandant
45:02of the Marine Corps
45:03to
45:04Mrs. Julia Colón,
45:06mother,
45:08deeply regret
45:09to inform you
45:10that your son,
45:10Private First Class
45:12Pedro H. Mangual,
45:14was killed in action
45:1710th of April,
45:191945,
45:20at Okinawa Island.
45:36I'm glad to see it
45:38on paper.
45:39Mm-hmm.
45:44I saw my father
45:45once tell this story
45:47after many scotches,
45:49which he didn't do often,
45:50but I'm grateful
45:51to see it recorded.
45:53He was just 18 years old.
45:55The irony is,
45:56he lied about his age
45:57to get in.
45:59He was only 15
46:01when he joined the Marines
46:02shortly after Pearl Harbor.
46:05Wow.
46:0615.
46:08I know.
46:09So Julia
46:09is just being buffeted
46:11by fate.
46:12That's right.
46:15Following her son's death,
46:17Julia received a letter
46:19from the Marine Corps,
46:20informing her
46:21that Pedro's remains
46:23had been interred
46:24on Okinawa,
46:26the island
46:27where he was killed.
46:28In response,
46:30Julia made a series
46:32of simple,
46:33yet agonizing,
46:34requests.
46:36Dear sir,
46:37in regard to your letter
46:38dated May 14, 1945,
46:41in report to my son's death,
46:44PFC Pedro H. Mangual.
46:47Please,
46:48I want to ask you
46:50a favor for my sake.
46:52Please do not have
46:53his clothes
46:54sent back to me.
46:57Please do not send
46:59nothing home.
47:00I also have to ask you
47:03that as my son
47:05gave his life
47:06for his country
47:06and he joined the Marines
47:08of his own free will,
47:10after this war is over,
47:13I would like to have
47:15his remains
47:15brought back
47:16to the United States.
47:19I am asking you
47:21this favor
47:21as his mother.
47:26I remain
47:28very truly yours,
47:30Julia Colon.
47:35That is just
47:36so heartbreaking
47:38when I read that.
47:41Wow.
47:45You know,
47:46she just,
47:47she always just
47:49seems so solid
47:50and steady.
47:55Julia's wishes
47:56ultimately were granted.
47:58After the war,
47:59her son's remains
48:01were transferred
48:02to a military cemetery
48:04in the United States.
48:06What's more,
48:07in 1948,
48:09she received
48:10yet another letter
48:11from the Marine Corps,
48:12this one
48:13detailing the honors
48:15that Pedro
48:16was to receive
48:17posthumously.
48:20And a ribbon bar
48:21with one star
48:23and victory
48:25medal
48:26World War II.
48:28Ah!
48:28Oh, yeah.
48:31Yeah.
48:33So you know
48:33what that means.
48:34Pedro and his unit
48:35received multiple awards,
48:36including
48:37the Presidential Unit
48:39Citation.
48:40And they received
48:41this award
48:42for their
48:42quote-unquote
48:43extraordinary heroism
48:45in fighting
48:46at Okinawa.
48:47What's it like
48:48to see that?
48:50You know,
48:53my people
48:54fight hard.
48:57We bring it all
48:59and this is
49:00more proof
49:01and I'm
49:02so
49:05relieved
49:08that he
49:10was
49:11acknowledged.
49:15There is
49:16a final beat
49:17to this story,
49:18a far happier one.
49:20When we set out
49:21to trace Julia's roots,
49:23we found
49:24a treasure trove
49:25of documents.
49:26They allowed us
49:28to go back
49:29over 200 years
49:30and introduce Liza
49:33to her fourth
49:34great-grandparents
49:35who married
49:37in Puerto Rico
49:38in 1799.
49:41Wow.
49:43I have to ask you,
49:45what is it like
49:46learning this?
49:48But I'm grateful
49:49for this.
49:50I'm so
49:52like,
49:53yeah,
49:53my people
49:54go back
49:55from 1799.
49:57Easy.
50:00What do you think
50:01your father
50:01would have felt?
50:02Because after all,
50:03these are his ancestors.
50:06He would just
50:09be grunting.
50:10That's what he did
50:11when he was impressed.
50:13Huh!
50:14Huh!
50:15Because he'd be
50:16doing a lot of that.
50:17Yo,
50:17I got news for you.
50:18When I saw this,
50:19I went,
50:19huh,
50:20too.
50:23The paper trail
50:24had now run out
50:25for Liza
50:26and Delroy,
50:27but there were
50:28surprises
50:29still to come.
50:31When we compared
50:32their DNA
50:32to that of others
50:34who've been in the series,
50:35we found a match
50:37for each of them.
50:39Evidence
50:39within their own
50:40chromosomes
50:41of distant cousins
50:43that they never
50:44knew they had.
50:46For Delroy,
50:47this meant
50:48a new connection
50:49to an old friend.
50:51You know LeVar Burry?
50:53Yes, I do.
50:53That is your DNA cousin.
50:57Wow.
50:57You and LeVar
50:58share a long
50:58identical stretch
50:59of DNA
51:00on your 16th chromosome.
51:02That means you have
51:03a distant common ancestor
51:04somewhere
51:05on your family tree.
51:06Something.
51:08Does he know that?
51:09No.
51:10No, because you
51:11hadn't done me
51:11when you did him.
51:12Yeah.
51:13Wow.
51:15Isn't that cool?
51:15That is.
51:16And he would love
51:17to know that.
51:19That's way cool.
51:20Liza, too,
51:21was about to discover
51:22that she has
51:24a new relative
51:25among her friends.
51:26Turn the page
51:27and meet your cousin.
51:31Yes!
51:31I knew it!
51:37Liza shares
51:38a long stretch
51:38of DNA
51:39with fellow actor
51:41and fellow
51:42Puerto Rican
51:43Justina Machado.
51:45I love her so much.
51:47We met a handful
51:47of times
51:48and it's like
51:49we fall into
51:50each other.
51:51Well,
51:52there you go.
51:52You got good reason.
51:53We have hugs
51:53and laughter.
51:55You can call her
51:56when you get home.
51:57Wow.
51:58This is fantastic.
52:03That's the end
52:04of our journey
52:05with Liza Colon Zayas
52:07and Delroy Lindo.
52:10Join me next time
52:11when we unlock
52:13the secrets of the past
52:14for new guests
52:15on another episode
52:17of Finding Your Roots.
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