00:00Before we dig into the specifics here, is that how you see it, that there was no outside pressure here
00:04prompting this investigation?
00:07Oh, no, absolutely not. This administration has, for this entire administration, been pressuring broadcasters to bend to its will.
00:15It wants broadcasters to only show content that it approves of and that paints it in a good light.
00:23So this is absolutely part of this pattern. And it's egregious, as I said before.
00:30It's an absolute violation of the First Amendment. And to be clear, for government to pressure broadcasters to censor themselves
00:39is, in fact, a violation of the First Amendment.
00:42And that's what's happening here. And as I noted before, this is something that if the companies challenge it,
00:49the FCC and this administration will fail because the First Amendment is on their side.
00:54Walk us through the mechanics of what happens here. So by calling for this early review in the context of
01:00this broader investigation, what is the FCC able to do?
01:03How does the shape of that investigation change?
01:07So it's important to note that the FCC does not have jurisdiction over the network itself.
01:13All the FCC has jurisdiction over is the licensing of the local broadcast stations.
01:18Literally, it's the licensing of the airwaves over which these local broadcast stations operate.
01:25And we have never seen before the FCC target a network by going after its local broadcast stations.
01:35Disney has eight owned and operated broadcast stations throughout the country.
01:40That is not a large number of broadcast stations.
01:43And so what this FCC has done is really unprecedented in that it is calling for an early renewal of
01:50those licenses
01:51so that it can then challenge whether they like the way these stations are operating right now.
02:00Now, in the normal times, the very first renewal would have come due in 2028.
02:06The last renewal would have been in 2031.
02:09So we are talking years ahead of when these broadcasters were due to come in to reapply to renew their
02:18licenses.
02:20So, again, this is not about ensuring that there's compliance with the FCC's rules.
02:27This is absolutely about going after Disney to get them to change their practices the way that this administration wants
02:36them to do it.
02:37To your knowledge, has this ever happened before?
02:39Can you remember another case where they triggered this early renewal?
02:42And it sounds like that itself is within the power of the FCC, but I couldn't come up with another
02:47example of when it had happened in recent history.
02:51Certainly not in my professional career, because the last time the commission triggered this early renewal process was over a
02:58half a century ago.
03:01So it's been decades.
03:03And the standard for not renewing a license is extremely high.
03:09And it's certainly not based on this sham investigation that the FCC has initiated through this process.
03:17I go back to what you said in that statement, the counsel that you gave media organizations to stand up
03:21for the First Amendment.
03:23And I'm curious, given your background as somebody who's worked in communications law for a very long time, what the
03:28message is, in fact, to those organizations?
03:30How they are thinking through what's happening here with Disney and with these ABC stations vis-a-vis themselves?
03:37How are they reacting and what it might mean for them?
03:41Well, first of all, I want to say that I'm very heartened that Disney is, in fact, pushing back and
03:46defending its rights and the rights of its talent and the free speech rights and free press rights.
03:53And the reason that they are doing it, well, I don't mean to speak on behalf of them, but they
03:58tried capitulating to this administration before.
04:01But what we have learned is that capitulating once does not enable protection forever.
04:07Instead, the administration comes back with more and more demands.
04:10So right now, that is why I call for broadcasters to defend themselves, to defend the First Amendment rights, because
04:17they have a choice right now.
04:19Now, the choice is they can defend the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press, or they can
04:25surrender it.
04:26And I'm glad to see Disney pushing back.
04:29I'm wondering, I haven't seen a lot of public outcry yet to this point about some of the action that
04:35the FCC has taken or the fact that there are these unfilled seats or the way in which it's being
04:40governed.
04:40I'm wondering if you think that's because it's complicated and there's a lack of understanding and perhaps on our end
04:46coverage of some of these issues.
04:47Or if you think regular people just don't think this is going to impact their daily lives.
04:51And if you would agree with that statement or you think they will feel this at some point.
04:57I actually am seeing a lot of bipartisan pushback, certainly from congressmen, from senators.
05:06We saw Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz, push back on that.
05:10We've seen even conservative media personalities push back on that because they are seeing that there really is a threat
05:17to the First Amendment here.
05:18I hear from members of the public every day who are alarmed by this.
05:23And that's why I embarked on my First Amendment tour, where I am going to local communities to talk to
05:28them about this administration's abuses of the First Amendment and encouraging people to stand up and speak out.
05:34Because this is about protecting our democracy, and it's precious, and we need to make sure that we make our
05:41voices heard.
05:43The FCC currently has a chairman who says the FCC is not an independent organization.
05:48You are one of three commissioners.
05:49There are supposed to be five.
05:50You're the lone Democrat on the commission.
05:53Is this a regulator that at this moment in time is broken, that's not operating the way that it should
05:58be?
06:00The FCC, as you note, is supposed to be an independent agency, and it's not acting as an independent agency.
06:06We are acting at the whims of this White House and this administration, and that's dangerous.
06:11When Congress established the Federal Radio Commission, which was the Federal Communications Commission's predecessor,
06:17it purposefully made it an independent, multi-member agency because it wanted to be an expert-driven body and also
06:25to protect the media from the whims of one person.
06:30Well, what we are seeing today is exactly what happens when we are simply doing the bidding of the whims
06:35of one person.
06:37You said you have seen bipartisan support and bipartisan pushback against this action.
06:42I'm wondering, is there something Congress could do or should be doing at this point?
06:47Is there action they should be taking?
06:51Absolutely.
06:51Congress should be asserting rigorous oversight over this agency right now and bringing to light the abuses of both the
07:00administration and this agency.
07:02In addition, you know, it can implement guardrails.
07:06It could help us define the public interest, which is one of the excuses that this FCC has been using
07:11to go after broadcaster content.
07:14So I know that there's a lot of attention right now from Congress.
07:18We, in fact, have gotten a couple letters just in the last couple days related to this very incident.
07:23And I look forward to testifying before Congress about what this FCC has been doing.
Comments