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60 Minutes - Season 58 - Episode 05: On the Brink; Dr. Attia Will See You Now; The Mentalist
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00:06Since last month, the U.S. military has been blowing up speedboats in the waters off Venezuela
00:11in what it calls a counter-narcotics operation.
00:15The growing military buildup in the region suggests there may be another target.
00:22Venezuela's dictator.
00:24If I was going through, I'd head to Russia or China right now.
00:27Because?
00:27His days are numbered.
00:29Something's going to happen.
00:31Tonight, a rare look inside Venezuela.
00:37It's not often that 60 Minutes does a story on a physician who has fewer than 75 patients.
00:43But Dr. Peter Atiyah is a star in the growing field of longevity medicine
00:48who has attracted millions of followers and billionaire patients willing to pay six figures to see him.
00:56That's a lot of money.
00:57I mean, what do you get for that?
00:59A path to help you achieve your goal of living longer and living better.
01:05Tonight, we go inside the mind of mentalist Oze Perlman, who gets into people's heads by telling them exactly what
01:13they are thinking.
01:14Why would I tell you that on the air?
01:15In June, Oze guest Joe Rogan's ATM pin code, leaving the podcaster befuddled.
01:22How'd I do, Joe?
01:23Is that your ATM pin code?
01:24Yeah.
01:25He looked like he wanted to punch you.
01:27I think so.
01:30I'm Leslie Stahl.
01:32I'm Scott Pelley.
01:33I'm Anderson Cooper.
01:34I'm Sharon Alfonsi.
01:36I'm John Wertheim.
01:37I'm Cecilia Vega.
01:38I'm Nora O'Donnell.
01:40I'm Bill Whitaker.
01:41Those stories and in our last minute, viewer mail.
01:45Tonight, on 60 Minutes.
01:55Over the past few weeks, the long, frosty relationship between the U.S. and Venezuela reached a boiling point.
02:02The United States launched a series of strikes against vessels alleged to be carrying drugs, calling it a counter-narcotics
02:09mission.
02:10But the growing military buildup of American forces in the region suggests there may be another target.
02:16President Nicolas Maduro, the Venezuelan dictator who's been in America's crosshairs for years.
02:22This summer, the U.S. Justice Department announced a $50 million reward for information leading to Maduro's arrest, accusing him
02:31of being a drug kingpin.
02:32On Friday, the Trump administration escalated its military campaign, sending the world's largest aircraft carrier to the region.
02:41But not much has been seen or heard from people inside Venezuela.
02:46Earlier this month, we obtained a rare visa from the Maduro government, packed our bags for Caracas, and found a
02:53country on the brink.
02:56A patchwork of stacked cinderblock homes cling to the hillsides of Caracas.
03:02Instability isn't just an architectural feature in Venezuela.
03:05It's a way of life.
03:08We saw it at a busy market.
03:10There was heated haggling over prices and anxious whispers about the American ships off the coast.
03:16Are you afraid of the Americans?
03:18Are you afraid about speaking about it?
03:20Yes, I like them talking about it.
03:23Okay, I understand.
03:26One feels nervous and anxious, he said.
03:28We don't want anything to happen.
03:31This woman chimed in, the Venezuelan people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of its president.
03:37Just then, off camera, a man told her, you can't say that.
03:41Who provided you with this space to work?
03:44He was wearing a hat with an emblem of the government's civilian military force.
03:49What do you think about what's going on off the coast?
03:54It's an abusive tactic from America, he said.
03:57We're a sovereign country.
03:59F-35 fighter jets, eight U.S. warships, and an estimated 10,000 U.S. troops are now in the
04:07Caribbean, with more on the way.
04:10Does it feel like something's about to happen?
04:13Yes, she said.
04:15It feels very, very heavy.
04:18The weight of uncertainty and the rumble of armored vehicles can be felt throughout the country.
04:25An estimated 125,000 members of Venezuela's military have mobilized.
04:32While we were there, the government was holding emergency drills and urging civilians to prepare for combat.
04:40It's all a bit of theater and a response to this.
04:44Since September, the U.S. military has blown up at least 10 vessels, killing more than three dozen alleged drug
04:51smugglers, most of them off the coast of Venezuela.
04:54What I can say is that I've used this phrase before.
04:58This is like cooking an egg with a blowtorch.
05:01F-35s, Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, submarines aren't normally what we need to go after small boats, fishing boats.
05:12Ambassador James Story was the last American diplomat at the now-closed U.S. embassy in Venezuela.
05:19He says the show of U.S. force is likely intended to oust Nicolas Maduro.
05:24Venezuela's dictator.
05:26This is a very bad actor sitting on top of the world's largest known reserves of oil, plus the critical
05:36minerals that will fuel the 21st century economy.
05:39And he's in bed with our strategic competitors.
05:42And how has he been able to cling to power for as long as he has?
05:45I mean, let's be very clear.
05:48This is a criminal organization masquerading as a government.
05:51This is an individual who is under indictment for narcotics trafficking, commits human rights violations.
05:57Someone who has used the apparatus of the state to throw people in jail, to torture them, to kill them.
06:04In January, the Trump administration briefly engaged with Maduro's government, negotiating a deal for the release of six U.S.
06:12prisoners arrested while visiting the country and for the resumption of flights carrying Venezuelans deported from the United States back
06:20to their country.
06:21But in August, the olive branch snapped.
06:24Today, the Department of Justice...
06:26U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi announced that staggering reward for Maduro's arrest, $50 million.
06:35Which is why we were stunned when, after months of negotiations, Maduro agreed to do an interview with us.
06:42Maduro's ministers chose the time and place, the ballroom of a busy hotel in Caracas.
06:47But minutes before the interview was finally set to begin, it was called off.
06:53We were told the president's minister of defense and head of intelligence said it was no longer safe to do
06:59the interview.
07:01Maduro has been defiant for months, despite the bounty on his head, openly challenging the U.S. and its accusations
07:09against him in front of crowds of supporters.
07:13After he bagged our interview, we thought perhaps he was packing his bags.
07:18So we just hopped into a taxi cab in Caracas because we were told that President Maduro has just appeared
07:24at a rally in central Caracas for an indigenous people's day event, which is apparently being held on the middle
07:31of a highway.
07:32And he is surrounded by hundreds of people.
07:34This is two days after he canceled his interview with us.
07:38Maduro urged the crowd to defend the republic, but privately, he was making concessions.
07:45Last week, President Trump confirmed reports that President Maduro offered the U.S. a stake in the country's oil to
07:52avoid conflict.
07:53He has offered everything. He's offered everything. You're right.
07:57You know why? Because he doesn't want to f*** around with the United States.
08:01Maduro has repeatedly called U.S. accusations that he oversees a narco state, quote, disinformation.
08:08Most fentanyl is produced in Mexico or China.
08:12And according to the DEA, Venezuela is not a major producer of cocaine either.
08:17But it is a transit route for it.
08:19On Thursday, Maduro appealed for peace in English.
08:23Not war. Not war. Not war.
08:27Just peace. Just peace. Just peace.
08:31As a gesture of goodwill, Venezuela is still accepting planes full of deportees from the U.S.
08:37Maduro frames their return as a triumph, repatriating Venezuelans from harsh conditions in U.S. detention.
08:44But most of the deportees we saw told us they felt defeated.
08:48We were with this four-year-old girl as she was escorted off a plane by a government minister.
08:54And how long have they been apart?
08:56Four months.
08:57Four months.
08:58And taken into a room where a crush of state TV and her family were waiting.
09:05Republican Senator Rick Scott of Florida says Maduro should hop on a one-way flight himself.
09:11If I was Maduro, I'd head to Russia or China right now.
09:14Because?
09:14His days are numbered. Something's going to happen. Whether it's internal or external, I think something's going to happen.
09:21The firepower that's off the coast, right? This is our armada. This is a lot of U.S. forces.
09:26Are we about to invade Venezuela?
09:28I don't think so. I mean, if we do, I'd be surprised.
09:32Earlier this month, President Trump announced he approved covert CIA operations inside Venezuela.
09:39What do you think removing Maduro would signal to other socialist regimes in the United States?
09:46It'll be the end of Cuba.
09:48Cuba relies on subsidized Venezuelan oil to prop up its economy.
09:53America is going to take care of the Southern Hemisphere.
09:56And we're going to make sure that there's freedom and democracy.
10:01Freedom isn't the only thing in short supply in Venezuela.
10:05Hunger, chronic blackouts, and a scarcity of essential medicines plague the country.
10:10Today, more than 70 percent of residents live in poverty.
10:14It is a stunning reversal of fortune for a nation that was once one of the wealthiest countries in the
10:20world.
10:21Venezuela's economy was crippled by disastrous socialist policies and mismanagement.
10:27A crisis exacerbated by 20 years of U.S. sanctions imposed in direct response to the regime's anti-democratic actions,
10:36human rights violations, and corruption.
10:39That triggered triple-digit inflation and a humanitarian crisis.
10:45Back at the market in Caracas, this woman said the $50 a week that she earns isn't enough to feed
10:52her family and courageously answered this question.
10:55What do you think would happen if President Maduro was removed from office?
11:00Venezuela would change, she said.
11:03We would all be free.
11:04She told us she has plans to move to Spain in a few months.
11:08Nearly 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country in the last decade, roughly one-fifth of its population.
11:16Most of those who remained hoped last year's presidential election would be a turning point.
11:22But even after tallies showed the opposition won nearly 70 percent of the vote, Maduro refused to leave, stealing the
11:30presidency.
11:31Move! Move! Move!
11:34Protests were met with brutal crackdowns, which the U.N. says included jailing, torturing, and even murder.
11:41We met Phil Gunson in Caracas.
11:44He's lived in Venezuela for 26 years and is a senior analyst at the International Crisis Group, a non-governmental
11:51organization.
11:52Gunson is a rarity in Venezuela, an expert willing to speak openly about the government and Maduro's odds of surviving
12:00the current crisis.
12:02The asking price is Maduro's head. I mean, he has to go.
12:06And he's still going out to events in front of big crowds? Why is he not in a bunker?
12:13I think because the crowds are the defensive. That's my suspicion.
12:19Once or twice lately, he's done something quite unusual, which is to hold his events in hotels.
12:26You know, the U.S. isn't going to kill him in a hotel, obviously.
12:29Gunson says even if Maduro steps aside, the transition to democracy would be bumpy at best.
12:36Maria Corina Machado, the opposition leader who recently won the Nobel Peace Prize, has been in hiding for months, but
12:44has said she has a plan.
12:46There are reports to the opposition says they have this 100-hour plan with the Trump administration for a peaceful
12:52transition.
12:53Is there any guarantee that the transition will be peaceful?
12:58There's no guarantee at all.
12:59And in fact, one of the things that worries me most is that there's been no apparent negotiation with a
13:07key element in all of this story, which is the Venezuelan armed forces.
13:10If the Venezuelan armed forces don't go along with this, and by the armed forces, I really mean the high
13:14command, the people who give the orders,
13:17then there's a possibility, perhaps the armed forces might split, there's a possibility they might oppose a new government coming
13:24in.
13:25He says well-armed Colombian guerrilla groups that Maduro allows to operate in Venezuela might also resist a change in
13:33power.
13:34Is there a scenario that the U.S. has to put boots on the ground to keep order?
13:38I can't see a scenario in which they wouldn't have to put boots on the ground.
13:42I mean, if the U.S. is responsible, it's kind of the pottery barn principle, isn't it?
13:46If you break it, you own it.
13:47You have to protect the government that you just put in power, and that means, I think, thousands of troops.
13:53But Senator Rick Scott doesn't think it will get to that point.
13:56If it all goes to hell, is the U.S. willing to put boots on the ground in Venezuela?
14:03Well, I think the American public is tired of forever wars right now,
14:06so I think it's very difficult for us to make a commitment that we're going to do something like that.
14:13But I do believe that internationally there would be troops that would go in if they needed to.
14:21In Washington, lawmakers are debating the legality of the U.S. military action.
14:26Some say the strikes amount to extrajudicial killings.
14:30The Trump administration insists they are lawful and self-defense.
14:34At the same time, Admiral Alvin Halsey, the head of U.S. Southern Command
14:39and the officer in charge of all Caribbean activity, suddenly announced his retirement,
14:45two years ahead of schedule, offering no public explanation
14:49and raising more questions about the Trump administration's plan.
14:53If the administration were to turn around all those warships and said,
14:57OK, we've done everything we need to do here, what would that mean for President Maduro?
15:00It would be an enormous political triumph for Maduro because he'd be able to say
15:04forever afterwards, you know, I stood up to the U.S.
15:07I stood up to the empire, as they call it, and the empire retreated.
15:18Dr. Peter Atiyah spends a lot of time thinking about the last years of his life
15:25He's declared war on what he calls the marginal decade, the final years of life that are plagued
15:32by sickness and immobility.
15:34It's not often that 60 Minutes does a story on a physician who has fewer than 75 patients,
15:40but the Stanford-trained Atiyah has become both a pioneer and a star in the growing field
15:46of longevity medicine.
15:47His stark diagnosis and advice on what to do about it have attracted millions of followers
15:54and billionaire patients who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to hear the words,
16:01Dr. Atiyah, we'll see you now.
16:04At 75, both men and women fall off a cliff.
16:08At 75?
16:10At the population level, it's unmistakable what happens at the age of 75.
16:15That's what we're up against.
16:16That's what I'm thinking about in the practice, is how do I create an escape velocity that gets
16:22somebody another 15 years there?
16:25And so is your goal to minimize or essentially erase that marginal decade?
16:31The marginal decade's not going anywhere.
16:33We will all have a final decade of life.
16:35My goal is to make the marginal decade as enjoyable as possible.
16:39The way I explain it to my patients is that last 10 to 15 of your years, if you don't
16:43do
16:44anything about it, you will fall to a level of about 50% of your total capacity, cognitively,
16:49physically.
16:50And when people hear that, you're like, I don't want to be that.
16:52That's right.
16:52That's not how I want to spend the last decade of my life.
16:54A lot of people respond that way as though they're hearing this for the first time.
16:58Although if you ask them, haven't you seen people in this state?
17:02They'll say, well, yeah, I guess I have.
17:04Right.
17:05Likely their own relatives.
17:06Sure.
17:07Their own parents even.
17:08So do you consider yourself a new kind of doctor?
17:11No, I don't think so.
17:12What we're doing is creating a framework that fits directly into this idea of how to
17:16train for the marginal decade.
17:19That training begins here in Austin, Texas, where Atiyah is based.
17:24This is where his patients go through two days of physical evaluation and where we found,
17:30after just a few hours, how intense the 52-year-old doctor and his methods are.
17:36Just show me what you got.
17:37Just show me what you got.
17:38I think this is the neglected part of medical testing, is how fit are you?
17:42How strong are you?
17:43All right.
17:44How well do you move?
17:45And up overhead.
17:46And in many ways, these tests are even more predictive of how long you're going to live
17:51than what I might get out of your blood work.
17:53How do we know that?
17:54The data are pretty clear.
17:56When you look at things like cardiorespiratory fitness, when you look at muscle mass,
18:00when you look at strength, they have a much higher association than things like even cholesterol
18:06and blood pressure.
18:07Dr. Atiyah and his team say the key indicator of overall health and longevity...
18:13It's starting to roll now.
18:14VO2 in the mid-20s.
18:15...is a test called VO2 max.
18:18Everything you got.
18:19Everything you got.
18:20It sounds like the name of a sports car, but essentially it's a measurement of the size
18:25of someone's engine.
18:27Really good maximal test here.
18:28And their capacity to use oxygen to generate power...
18:32Really nice.
18:33...with their muscles, heart, and lungs.
18:36There you go.
18:37That's the hardest part of your day done.
18:39Even though you say I scored fairly well on my VO2 max.
18:45There we go.
18:4542.1.
18:47Okay, that's good.
18:47You said it's still not good enough for Dr. Peter Atiyah.
18:50Yes, your VO2 max was going to place you at the 85th percentile for women your age.
18:57And I think it's worth taking a victory lap.
18:59But tomorrow we should come back and plan on what we're going to do.
19:03You think anyone, whether they're 45 or 65, should be training like athletes, not for the
19:12Olympics, but essentially for advanced age?
19:15Absolutely.
19:16Life is a sport.
19:18Dr. Atiyah says the best drug to delay physical and cognitive decline is exercise, and he takes
19:26it in large doses.
19:28He aims for about 10 hours a week, cardio to burn fat, intense intervals for VO2 max, and
19:36weightlifting to maintain strength and muscle mass.
19:39He developed his program after turning his back on the medical establishment nearly 20 years
19:45ago.
19:45While training to be a cancer surgeon at Johns Hopkins, he got burnt out, caring for so many
19:52terminal patients.
19:53He quit his residency and became a management consultant.
19:57After becoming a father and discovering he was at risk of developing diabetes, he made big
20:03changes, personally and professionally.
20:07After my daughter was born, all I could think about was, oh my God, like, I want to have
20:13as much time as possible on this planet with this baby.
20:17That's when he decided to become his own first patient in a new specialty, longevity medicine.
20:24Today, he considers himself neither a primary care physician nor a provider of concierge care.
20:31We could quantify how that lowers your risk of cancer or heart disease.
20:35What Dr. Atiyah is prescribing is a radical change in how Americans think about their own
20:41health care, driven by the patient, focused on prevention, a practice he calls Medicine
20:473.0.
20:49We're dying of heart disease.
20:50We're dying from stroke, cancer, dementia, type 2 diabetes.
20:54And we, I think, have sort of come to realize that, hey, the playbook of Medicine 2.0, which
21:00is treat a disease when a disease is present, doesn't seem to work as well.
21:05And so the first principle of Medicine 3.0 is you have to take a much longer arc on the
21:11prevention of chronic disease.
21:13That means using existing diagnostic tools in novel ways.
21:17I'm going to have you lay down with your head facing that way, feet facing this way for
21:21me.
21:21Like the DEXA scan, that checks bone density, as well as muscle mass and body fat.
21:27It typically costs under $300.
21:30And Atiyah says it's, quote, almost criminal negligence.
21:34Most women don't get one until they're 65.
21:38Another scan he employs is more costly and not covered by insurance.
21:44There are certain things that you recommend that are controversial, like regular, preventive,
21:49full-body MRIs.
21:51Early detection matters.
21:53The earlier you can treat a cancer, the smaller the burden of the tumor at the time of treatment,
21:58the greater your odds of success.
22:00Now let's talk about the flip side of that, because it is going to detect a lot of things
22:05that are not cancer.
22:07That means you have a lot of false positives.
22:09If you're not willing to go through that experience, as traumatic as it is, you should not engage
22:14in this level of screening.
22:16Do you get them?
22:16I do.
22:48What does it cost?
22:49It is a six-figure program.
22:51Like $100,000 or $500,000 or $800,000, because there's a big range.
22:56Much closer to $100,000 than $500,000.
22:59That's a lot of money.
23:00That's a lot of money.
23:00I mean, what do you get for that?
23:01You don't get, you don't live forever.
23:03Nope.
23:05You're getting access to me, a team of a couple other physicians, a strength and conditioning
23:11team, a nutrition team, and what you're really getting is a path to help you achieve your
23:17goal of living longer and living better.
23:20Welcome, Dr. Peter Atiyah and Dr.
23:23The pitch has proved extremely popular.
23:26This is kind of a turning point.
23:28His book, Outlive, part memoir, part medical manifesto, has sold nearly 3 million copies
23:36and made him a top draw at longevity medicine events like this one.
23:41When you give women information about how their bodies work, they make great decisions
23:46for themselves.
23:46And his podcast, that's been downloaded over 100 million times, tackles a wide range
23:52of topics, including menopause and nutrition.
23:56Let's talk about protein.
23:57Dr. Atiyah wants his patients to eat a lot of protein, more than double what the current
24:03nutritional guidelines recommend.
24:05The doctor and a handful of his patients have also taken a drug called rapamycin that's
24:11FDA approved for use by transplant recipients.
24:15The drug has extended the lifespan of mice, but Dr. Atiyah stopped taking it for now because
24:22it gave him mouth sores, which can be a side effect.
24:26There are physicians, including a respected professor of public health we spoke to, who
24:32are skeptical that his extraordinary regimen will result in an extra decade of healthy life.
24:46People are entitled to think what they want, and just because someone is a physician doesn't
24:49mean they're even remotely equipped to evaluate the merits of exercise physiology.
24:53Remember, I went to Stanford Medical School, right?
24:56How many hours of education do you think I received on exercise?
25:00Probably a few hours.
25:02Zero hours.
25:03And how many hours did I receive on nutrition?
25:05Zero hours.
25:07It was 25 years ago, so maybe things have changed, but I'm pretty sure that if you're talking
25:11to other esteemed physicians, they're in the same bucket as me.
25:14So, you know, they might not be the ones that are best equipped to be my critics.
25:19Our last morning in Austin, Dr. Atiyah took us for a ruck, a hike with weighted backpacks.
25:25This, to me, is as much about mental health and socialization, being in nature, and rucking
25:32is simply a vehicle to get that.
25:34How much work do you do on your emotional and mental health?
25:38A lot.
25:40I mean, it's as much a practice as what I put into exercise or, you know, blood work and
25:48cancer screening and all the other things that make up physical health.
25:53Atiyah has been open about dealing with depression
25:56and anger stemming from abuse he suffered as a child.
26:00Through therapy, including two stays at inpatient care facilities,
26:04he says he turned a corner about five years ago.
26:07By working hard on our physical health, we can reduce the rate of decline.
26:11But if we're being deliberate and active on our emotional health, it can actually improve.
26:16He says progress was only possible because his wife, of more than 20 years,
26:22Jill, stood by him.
26:23There is plenty of data on longevity and people living long that have very strong relationships.
26:33Yes.
26:34Just like the exercise data, I don't think this is just a correlation.
26:39I really think that there is also some causality that flows from the end of having great relationships
26:47to living a longer life.
26:49What's the point of living long if you don't have people to share it with?
26:54What's the purpose of living longer if you're unhappy?
26:59Dr. Atiyah plans on launching a new digital health app next year.
27:04He says that 80 percent of his program does not require a physician,
27:09and is adamant it's never too late to begin delaying the inevitable.
27:15How long do you want to live?
27:18You know, I want to live to be old enough to have a meaningful relationship with as many
27:24as my grandkids as I can.
27:26That probably means making it into my 90s.
27:29Because you must be plotting that with your VO2 max.
27:33Dr. Yeah, you know, it's funny, we do an exercise with our patients, which is called the timeline exercise.
27:38So if we were doing this for you, we would draw a line for Nora.
27:43So you're 51, and then I would draw a tick at 61, 71, 81, 91, 101.
27:49And then we would draw all three of your kids.
27:51And then we would start to extrapolate, when do you think they're going to have kids?
27:55And so you're going to draw their first grandkids.
27:57And we're going to map your life out according to this timeline.
27:59And you're going to see pretty quickly what it's all about.
28:05That really kind of puts it in great perspective for me.
28:08So yes, I've mapped my life out in that regard.
28:10And I know that the difference between being 80 and 90 is huge
28:17in terms of what I can have with those kids.
28:25Five seconds.
28:26What would Dr. Peter Atiyah think of your results?
28:31Learn how to test yourself at 60minutesovertime.com.
28:43A good magician can ask you to pick a card, any card, and they'll tell you what you're holding in
28:48your hand.
28:49But a mentalist will ask you to picture any card from an imaginary deck,
28:53and tell you which card is in your mind.
28:55Right now, the mentalist on people's minds, and going viral for it,
29:00is a 43-year-old father of five named Oz Perlman.
29:04Oz insists he does not have supernatural powers.
29:07He reads people.
29:09He reads them so well that when we met him this past spring,
29:12his head games had me jumping out of the chair mid-interview,
29:16and mystified celebrities, billionaires, and athletes.
29:21And now, please welcome to the stage, mentalist and mind reader, Oz Perlman.
29:27The Robin Hood Foundation Gala draws the kind of crowd that ponies up $72 million at one dinner,
29:34with athletes like NFL quarterback Russell Wilson in attendance.
29:38The question for you is, when I was young, I had a poster on my wall of someone,
29:47and you're no way in hell you're going to get this.
29:51He said no way in hell. I didn't say those words, he said those words.
29:55No way.
29:55Which means, there's no way it was a football player.
29:58Also, notice the nervous twitching with the hands.
30:02Hands here, hands here, always a female. Is it a female?
30:05Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is.
30:07It is a female.
30:08Oz Perlman went to work on him.
30:10I don't read minds, I read people.
30:12Here's what I want you to do.
30:13Russell, count the number of letters in the first name just to yourself.
30:18Not out loud, just to yourself.
30:22There's the tell, right?
30:24You call an audible.
30:25He finished counting and he looked up.
30:29Six letters, isn't it?
30:30It is six letters.
30:32Yeah. Russell, you're sitting there, sixth grade, you're looking up.
30:38She's looking back at you.
30:40She was.
30:41Tell us all who was in that poster, say it.
30:44Shania Twain.
30:45Shania Twain!
30:48There's no way. There's no way.
30:51You'd think a room full of millionaires, including tech titan Alexis Ohanian,
30:55might be hard to pull one over on.
30:57Turn it around!
30:58Shut up!
30:59Warlock!
30:59Shut up, everybody!
31:01I mean, what?
31:02No, no, no.
31:03Bro!
31:06You're a wizard.
31:07Come on, man.
31:08But Oz says this is his perfect audience.
31:11People that are very intelligent are much easier because their mind is regimented in a certain way.
31:18Like, I performed for Nobel laureates.
31:20And you go, this is one of the most intelligent people on the planet.
31:22I go, hook, line, and sinker, let's go. This is going to be a cakewalk.
31:25Seriously?
31:26Yeah, because they think a certain way. It's so much easier to fool.
31:30Oz is the first to admit his act is based on one big lie.
31:35The lie is that I can read your mind.
31:36You're sitting here today telling me you're not mind reading.
31:40That's correct. And it's funny because some people, even though I go to great extremes to
31:43tell people that I am not a psychic or supernatural, I have people that come up to me after shows
31:46who
31:47are at the highest level where I can't say names because I don't want to embarrass people.
31:51Oh, say names.
31:52Of like CEOs of major Fortune 100 companies who have called me and say,
31:57can you help me on negotiating a deal soon?
31:59So you're going to tell me how you do this?
32:00Uh, I'm not going to tell you. That doesn't do well for my job security.
32:04But he does drop hints. Oz says he studies body language to read what's going on in someone's mind.
32:11I can always see it when someone's eyes shift.
32:13Also, the lingering hands and pockets always indicator of another guy.
32:16Guy to guy interaction. Is it a guy? Of course it is.
32:19I'm getting you to make very specific choices, right?
32:21In my show, I guess a lot of things such as numbers, such as words, such as names,
32:26things that have seemingly an infinite amount of possibilities. But do they?
32:33No. I've figured out how to kind of take a piece of information that seems too impossible,
32:38I can build up in a big way and create a lot more of a limited subset than you think.
32:42Is it deception?
32:44When I perform, I explain to people what I'm doing.
32:46I like to leave breadcrumbs along the way. If you feel like you know a little bit,
32:50then you're hooked. Now you're intrigued. It keeps getting in your brain,
32:54it cycles over and over, it drives you crazy for a few weeks or months,
32:57and you tell other people. And that's my goal, right?
33:00I think the first number of your code's a one, isn't it? Your real pin code.
33:04My ATM pin code?
33:05ATM pin code.
33:06Why would I tell you that on the air?
33:07In June, Oz guest Joe Rogan's ATM pin code, leaving the podcaster befuddled.
33:14How'd I do, Joe? Is that your ATM pin code?
33:16Yeah.
33:18He looked like he wanted to punch you.
33:19I think so.
33:21I'm skeptical because I've got that pin code in the mail.
33:25He's calling his bank right now and being like,
33:27Joe, do you know this? Has this guy been playing the long game?
33:29Yeah, I don't like that.
33:30O says it's skepticism from the audience that is key to making his act work.
33:35I'm sure you've gone online and seen some of the community of critics out there who have accused
33:43you of wearing a fake thumb to be able to secretly write something.
33:48You're laughing.
33:49To go so far as to have someone on your team follow someone like a Joe Rogan around so that
33:56you could secretly see his ATM code before you sat down face to face.
34:00Right. I love that.
34:01How about you give me a yes or no that's actually not true or false, first of all?
34:05Oh, I can't answer every single one, but man,
34:07if you think that I follow Joe Rogan around to get his ATM pin code, I love that answer.
34:11But no, I did not follow Joe Rogan around.
34:13If you have these theories, that means I'm in your brain.
34:15I'm taking up real estate in your mind and you're thinking about it.
34:18Name either hearts, just say hearts or diamonds.
34:20The real estate empire he's built up in his audience's mind is the result of thousands of
34:26hours of repetition in front of a mirror and more than 30 years of an obsession with his craft.
34:32Trust me.
34:33The Perlman family emigrated from Israel and moved to Michigan. At 13, Oza's parents took him on a cruise
34:40ship vacation.
34:42I had never seen a magician in person. I was brought on stage. He'd performed this trick with me as
34:47the
34:47person. And I was blown away. Back on land, he checked out every magic book he could find
34:54and got a part-time job so he could buy every trick in the neighborhood magic shop.
34:59Turn it over. That's the only card in the deck.
35:02As his audience grew, Oza dropped the card tricks and turned to the mind games of mentalism.
35:10What you're doing is not magic.
35:11So I would describe it as a subset of magic. I do magic of the mind.
35:16I no longer need to... See how when I look there, you look there? That's the number one thing you
35:21learn in magic. Misdirection. When you make an elephant appear or disappear, the elephant was
35:26always there. The elephant didn't really vanish into thin air. We all know that. I made you look in
35:30the place I want you to look by using skills. When you take magic to a higher and higher level,
35:37you start to get rid of all the props.
35:39You said, I like putting words in people's heads.
35:42Yep.
35:42How do you do that?
35:44How you're gonna think is shockingly under my control. It's almost like the way a puppet gets
35:49moved around. Certain moments where you're right now about changing your mind and I move you in
35:52another direction, you don't realize that you're about to do something, but that your mind works
35:56in a certain way. I know you said your goal is to not creep people out. Right.
36:03But I gotta tell you what you just said is pretty creepy. Right.
36:06Under my control like a puppet. Sure. The moment I lose control is the moment the trick falls apart.
36:12The tricks have fallen apart in front of very large audiences. The magic is in Oz's ability
36:18to pivot in the moment, keep from panicking and make us all think he pulled it off.
36:24Is that true?
36:25Oz wanted weatherman Al Roker to pick a celebrity who would run for president in 2016. He wanted him to
36:32say Taylor Swift. The trick failed. This is Oz recovering in real time.
36:38Who is that celebrity of in mind? Who's running shock us?
36:40George Clooney.
36:41George Clooney.
36:42Yes.
36:42Anybody else? Any women?
36:43Uh, Taylor Swift.
36:45Okay. I like it. We're going instead of Hillary. You know,
36:47I have a prediction I just thought of.
36:51I just want to show you, I planned ahead the campaign slogan,
36:55Taylor Swift for president.
36:57And so in that moment, it's hyper focus of saying to him, and what if it could be anybody else?
37:01What if, and so I was steering him back on track to what I thought would work.
37:06And, and so it looked even more amazing because it seemed like he changed his mind at the last
37:09moment. So it worked.
37:11It, thank God.
37:13He's now growing a new fan base, performing for NFL and college football teams.
37:19Point and show me where you felt me touch you.
37:24How many times did you feel me touch you?
37:26Twice.
37:28The clips have gone viral.
37:31Saquon, give him a hand, brought me out.
37:33And the league's top coaches are calling on O's to help teams bond off the field.
37:38Tell us all, out of the whole grocery store, you're walking up and down the aisle,
37:41you pick anything, what did you pick up and buy? Tell us.
37:46M&Ms.
37:51You know what, Saquon?
38:02So how much preparation goes into a gig like this?
38:06Last whole year, since the last season ended, I have been ideating, formulating, thinking,
38:11what am I going to do this time?
38:12Everybody welcome O's, man.
38:14In August, we went with him to the Los Angeles Rams practice facility.
38:19Who was it?
38:20Devin Withers in Seattle.
38:22Don't ever doubt me again, Rams.
38:27For over an hour, O's did half a dozen tricks, including an old favorite, the ATM pin code.
38:35This time, he had safety cam curl play mind reader on coach Sean McVay.
38:40And suddenly a voice will enter into your mind and start to tell you coach's pin code.
38:46Do you believe this?
38:47Yeah.
38:48No, say no.
38:50Never say yes to voices in the head.
38:52Never say that.
38:53So I want you to look right at him.
38:55Look right at him.
38:55Cam, see into his eyes.
38:57And one digit at a time, tell coach what is his ATM pin code?
39:04Five, eight, three, one.
39:18There's got to be something really gratifying for you to be able to get a 300-pound grown man to
39:25freak out on camera.
39:26I love it.
39:27It's this feeling of wonder that you not only do not know how it's done, but it's the feeling it
39:34gives you, right?
39:35It's like certain movies give me goosebumps, and you don't get that often.
39:39I think the number one factor in success.
39:43O says he makes most of his money from private corporate events.
39:46His next public move is to offer up lessons with a new take on the classic self-help book, How
39:53to Win Friends and Influence People, offering advice on how to use mentalism in everyday life.
39:59My book is not about teaching you to be a mentalist, because there's books about that.
40:03And so I want to teach people not to be a mentalist, but how to think like a mentalist.
40:08We'd studied O's and his tricks, and were skeptical he'd be able to pull one over on us.
40:15Then, at the end of our interview, he asked me to name a place I've always wanted to go, but
40:20have never been.
40:21Tell us the place. Tell us the place you thought of. What would you say? I want to go there.
40:24I can't wait to say it.
40:25What was it? Vietnam.
40:26Vietnam? And you were about to say somewhere different. That was the key.
40:28You were about to change your mind. Say the other place you were thinking of.
40:30Thailand.
40:30Thailand was the other one you were going to go with.
40:32Come on!
40:35How did you get that?
40:39Of all the countries in the world, did you, like, hack my phone?
40:43I've hacked your brain.
40:44What the heck?
40:47For the grand finale, he asked me to come up with a question impossible for him to know the answer.
40:53Ask me the question.
40:53Who was my third grade teacher who had a paddle above the classroom door?
41:00This is not written down. This is not posted. This is nowhere but in your brain, this question.
41:06Right.
41:06Right.
41:07Zero.
41:07Right.
41:07You know what? You're not going to tell the truth. You're going to lie.
41:11I'm not going to lie.
41:12No, no. I want you to. I want you to.
41:15Okay, okay. You want me to lie.
41:16I want you to do the lie instead of the truth.
41:18I did. I thought of my high school teacher rather than my third grade teacher to try to stump him.
41:25Say it. What is it?
41:25Flannery.
41:26Sister Flannery.
41:28Okay, now you're freaking me out.
41:39The last minute of 60 minutes is sponsored by UnitedHealthcare, coverage you can count on for your whole life ahead.
41:50In the mail, viewers commented on our interview with the businessmen who negotiated the ceasefire in Gaza.
41:57Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner have had financial interests in the Middle East.
42:03You carefully tipped your hat to the Middle East peace deal with the interview of Witkoff and Kushner,
42:08carefully highlighting their efforts, but not shying away from conflict of interest questions.
42:14There were also notes about Erez Ruveni.
42:17He's a fired Department of Justice lawyer who told us a top DOJ official suggested
42:23ignoring court orders that blocked deportations.
42:27Maybe 60 Minutes could suggest to the Nobel Prize Committee that they create a prize for truth-telling and integrity.
42:35Mr. Ruveni definitely qualifies.
42:39I'm Bill Whitaker.
42:41We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.
42:49If you love 60 Minutes, see America's stories told every weeknight on the CBS Evening News.
42:57I'll see you next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.
42:59We'll be back next week.
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