I misteri di #PadrePio | Speciale TG1 1993
Lo speciale ripercorre, a venticinque anni dalla morte, la discussa esistenza di Padre Pio da Pietrelcina. La figura spirituale del frate francescano è analizzata alla luce della lunga diatriba tra coloro che già in vita lo venerarono come un santo e chi invece lo ritenne un mistificatore. Tra gli intervistati, anche l'antropologa Ida Magli.
| #Dio #Gesú #Religione #Santi #Santo #SpiritoSanto #Santa #Maria #Madonna #Preghiera #Preghiere #Chiesa #Chiese #Papa #Papi #Amen
Lo speciale ripercorre, a venticinque anni dalla morte, la discussa esistenza di Padre Pio da Pietrelcina. La figura spirituale del frate francescano è analizzata alla luce della lunga diatriba tra coloro che già in vita lo venerarono come un santo e chi invece lo ritenne un mistificatore. Tra gli intervistati, anche l'antropologa Ida Magli.
| #Dio #Gesú #Religione #Santi #Santo #SpiritoSanto #Santa #Maria #Madonna #Preghiera #Preghiere #Chiesa #Chiese #Papa #Papi #Amen
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00:00Music
00:33Good evening, a healer, a guru, a mystifier, a saint?
00:39Who was Padre Pio?
00:41Tonight Special Tg1 deals with a report by Danila Bonito about Padre Pio of Pietralcina.
00:49Why are we still talking about him, 25 years after his death?
00:53Why do so many people continue to make pilgrimages to San Giovanni Rotondo?
00:59We offer you a portrait without rhetoric and without holy pictures of one of the most popular, loved but also discussed characters and
01:09criticized of this century in Italy.
01:54Music
01:57I could smell the scent of Padre Pio's estimate, that is, a particular scent came out of the estimate, perhaps of camphor,
02:05of sandalwood or something like that, it was still characteristic, which however always varied on this shade.
02:11But the perfume of Padre Pio, understood as a message, which left in an unknown place suddenly, like a
02:18I was able to experience the presence of Padre Pio only in 1987.
02:24It was in the autumn, then I had to follow a conference on the estimate of Padre Pio, a particularly demanding conference, organized by Padre
02:35Gerardo Di Flumeri, the vice postulator.
02:37Like all good journalists, I was only interested in having some reports, some notes to fill the 3-4 pages of the
02:45'item.
02:47And let me agree with this with a cappuccino, and I was leaving the conference, when at the door I began to hear
02:53an increasingly intense scent of roses and violets together.
02:58And when I was just about to go out at the door, more than anything confused by this smell, which I couldn't even smell
03:05justify to myself, far from me the idea that it was the perfume of Padre Pio,
03:09A woman stopped me and said, do you smell the scent of Padre Pio? It was a call.
03:14I stopped, I listened to the four days of the conference, all of them, all the reports, and in a certain sense I
03:21began to understand and know Padre Pio.
03:28Since this morning, thousands of people have been taking turns praying around the coffin containing the remains of Father
03:35Pio of Pietrelcina,
03:36who passed away last night at 2.30, at the age of 81, in the Capuchin convent of San Giovanni
03:42Rotondo, where he had lived for over 50 years.
03:46And 25 years ago Padre Pio died in San Giovanni Rotondo, in Gargano, where the Capuchin friar lived for over
03:5250 years old,
03:52a great crowd of pilgrims, coming from all parts of Italy and from abroad, gathered in a
03:57prayer vigil to remember the friar of the stigmata.
04:00The cause for his beatification, begun in 1982, is still ongoing.
04:0725 years have passed since that September 23, 1968.
04:13Then an immense crowd of pilgrims poured into San Giovanni Rotondo.
04:18It was the last farewell to the stigmata friar, a continuous and composed procession,
04:24candles lit around the coffin, soon covered with glass to protect the body from the anxious devotion of the faithful.
04:32Padre Pio, solemn in his death, with his priestly stole, crucifix, rosary beads, and Franciscan rule in his clasped hands.
04:4025 years have passed, filled with continuous pilgrimages, a procession of still lit torches, the vigil and then the mass.
04:49to remind us of that day.
04:52Who was Padre Pio? Who is for the faithful that shy and humble Capuchin friar with eyes that penetrated like
04:58a blade in the hearts of men?
05:02He had this ability to penetrate the human soul, so his gaze was not based only on...
05:12It was not an external gaze, but a gaze that penetrated us inside, so when we introduced ourselves to Padre Pio
05:19we were completely naked, naked in spirit, that is, completely exposed.
05:25And so in those cases... it was best to have only an attitude of sincerity and loyalty.
05:33And there is... was it difficult to sustain this gaze?
05:36It was, in the beginning, yes, it was very difficult for me.
05:40So many truths that he once told me look at the beautiful and the good, because I was always closed in
05:46myself.
05:46Beyond your gaze towards the divine, towards love, towards bondà and so forget yourself.
05:55This was the lesson he taught me.
06:05Look at the fame he had, what a worldwide clientele he gathered around him.
06:10But why? Perhaps because he was a philosopher? Because he was a wise man?
06:15Why did he have the resources at his disposal? Why did he humbly say Mass and hear confessions from morning till night?
06:21These are the words of Paul VI, engraved a few steps away from the block of blue granite that contains his remains.
06:28in the crypt of the convent of San Giovanni.
06:33When I'm dead, Padre Pio once joked, I'll make more noise than when I was alive.
06:38The process for his canonization has been underway since November 1982.
06:43For many he is already a saint, for others a mystifier, a man of surprising modernity or with medieval memories.
06:51Rivers of words and definitions about him, the farmer of God, the Cyrenean of all, the friar of the
06:58lie, the Rasputin of Gargano, the miracle-working friar.
07:02For ordinary people he was the man of hope, for many the last resort.
07:07His paranormal and esoteric gifts were perhaps just one means, among many, to spread the word of God.
07:15What did knowing him mean to you, being by his side?
07:18Knowing him meant changing my life, above all, converting and, I would say, rediscovering certain truths that had been dormant within us.
07:31Let me give you an example.
07:35Until I met Padre Pio, I would say my faith was superficial.
07:39As I penetrated and got closer to Padre Pio, I saw that my faith was not
07:46more something external,
07:48but it was something that permeated all my actions.
07:51It wasn't easy.
07:53And in the early days there were several struggles, because I had to fight above all with all my internal forces against me.
08:06to this conversion.
08:08Then the struggle eased and I would say I was recomposed in a different way.
08:17What does recomposed mean?
08:20We have a wealth of experience, we have our own way of seeing.
08:26When we meet Padre Pio we are forced to review our positions
08:31and enter an atmosphere that is completely different from the one we started from.
08:37How did she come to know him?
08:38I met him because I was a guest of a lady in Rome during my university years who knew Father
08:46Pious.
08:47One day I got tired of hearing about Padre Pio and I told her that I would come to
08:51find.
08:52And this dates back to 1953.
08:59And then every now and then I went back to meet Padre Pio and for me it became indispensable to meet him because he was
09:08a moment of spiritual oxygenation.
09:12He is someone who certainly believed, there is no doubt about that, he cannot be a mystifier because naturally also in the field
09:21we have the mystifiers of miracles.
09:24Without a doubt he believed and above all identified with the suffering of Christ.
09:29And this is a bit peculiar as males generally do not have stigmata, they are mostly in history
09:37of the Church, it is above all women who are stigmatized.
09:41The first very famous stigmatist is Saint Francis and this already makes us understand that there is a particular attitude to be
09:48part of the males
09:49because we might ask ourselves why in the first 1200 years of Christianity no one was ever stigmatized.
09:57And so there is truly an identification with the humanity of the suffering of Christ, both on the part of Francis and
10:06by the many stigmatized women
10:08and so in some way it is original that there is a stigmatized person in our century and a male.
10:22Who was he? An open question.
10:25Because in a time of secularization so many people from all over the world go down there, among the mountains of
10:31Gargano, to see, to touch a grate, to stick his nose to the glass that isolates his cell?
10:36Because humanity needs the transcendent, it cannot resign itself to death as a natural fact, at the end of life,
10:46to cure, without another life, another eternity.
10:50And for the same reason they go where Padre Pio was.
10:54I can add that being a stigmatized male for the reasons I mentioned before, it struck the imagination much more.
11:01Mr. Bertani, you left Parma, which is your hometown, 42 years ago and have lived here ever since.
11:09in San Giovanni Rotondo.
11:11The reason that brought him to San Giovanni Rotondo is ultimately a very practical and very earthly piece of advice,
11:17that his brother asked Padre Pio whether or not he should marry a certain girlfriend.
11:22Yes.
11:23And Padre Pio gave an answer. When did you see him for the first time?
11:27Padre Pio? In January 1951.
11:31How did I get here?
11:32I came back because I was in Venice too, I had gone to Venice, I was employed in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock,
11:39Agriculture and Livestock, and after two years I went back on vacation.
11:43And my brother gave me an offering to take to Padre Pio for the construction of the hospital
11:48and then he had asked me to put his daughter under the protection of her father,
11:54and he thanked her for all that he had achieved, that he was happy to have married this woman, this was the
12:00its...
12:00Do you remember that first meeting?
12:02Yes, perfectly.
12:04Can you describe it to me?
12:05Yes. And nothing, I confessed to Padre Pio, then...
12:09Did he confess it right away?
12:10Right away, yes. I waited a day for my turn, then I confessed and after the confession I gave the
12:17'offer
12:17and then I asked Padre Pio if he sold under his protection, my niece, my brother and the
12:23family,
12:24I thanked him for everything and then I asked for an event for me too, as I had to leave after six days,
12:29I had to take a plane back to Venezuela and he told me it's not for you.
12:34Were you close to Padre Pio from then until the end?
12:37Yes.
12:37What is it? Who is Padre Pio?
12:40The greatest of saints.
12:44What does it mean?
12:47A man who was father, brother, friend, everything to me.
12:55I suffered more for the death of Padre Pio than for that of my parents,
12:58despite the fact that I loved my parents in a way...
13:01Because Padre Pio was everything to me.
13:04His life, his life choices, his inner life, how they were guided by Father
13:14Pious?
13:15In all.
13:17I didn't even go to Foggia without his permission.
13:21In fact, I never went back to Venezuela because he told me it's not for you.
13:27I went home because my uncle died and so I went to the funeral and came back afterwards.
13:32two days,
13:32that there were four days left before departure because the answer was not clear to me.
13:37Instead when I returned to the convent, the guardian father, then Father Carmelo,
13:43He made me approach Padre Pio in the corridor, he says, "This young man needs to ask me for advice."
13:47because his future depends on it.
13:50I say father I'm afraid I didn't understand well why I'm tense, you southerners,
13:54I understand very well, it's not for you not to leave.
13:56I was employed in the Parma agricultural consortium, after four months I came for Easter
14:02and he told me to come to San Giorno and quit my job.
14:08Do you find any analogies between the figure of Saint Francis and that of Padre Pio?
14:12Look, I have to say, in my opinion, no, because Saint Francis is a man that I loved very much,
14:20I studied a lot, he is a sweet man, who loves nature,
14:27who loves beauty, who actually hasn't asked for anything for himself.
14:34And so in this sense it seems to me that Padre Pio doesn't resemble him at all.
14:37because he was instead someone who assumed the power that was given to him by the faith of the people,
14:44in a good way of course, but he still handled it.
14:48Instead, Francis has never managed power, he has always rejected it,
14:52As viewers may not know, he refused to become a priest.
14:58so as not to have the power that the priesthood assumes anyway.
15:05So it seems to me that he doesn't resemble Saint Francis.
15:09Giulio Siena, you met Padre Pio when you were seven years old,
15:12This is how a child and then an adolescent lives with this continuity with Padre Pio?
15:18I found Padre Pio in my house, my father was a journalist, so he followed the events of Padre Pio,
15:25My mother, a devotee of Padre Pio, came from Rome, where the family was born,
15:30so at seven years old it was normal that I was already here in the convent for confession and then for the first
15:36Communion.
15:37So my first conscious encounter was for confession, an anomalous confession let's say,
15:44because there was neither absolution nor accusation of sins.
15:49Why did you go to confession?
15:51It was my custom before my first communion that I had to present myself with a pure soul for this event.
15:58But out of caution, because I felt since I was little that Padre Pio was severe,
16:03I had confessed before going to Padre Pio.
16:05There was a double confession, a test in short.
16:08And he obviously knew it, because he put his hand on my head and said,
16:12go, you don't need to confess.
16:14How does a child experience everything that happened around Padre Pio?
16:22From the stigmata as the most evident and striking phenomenon to the crowd of faithful,
16:28to his faculties which were extraordinary, this is how a child experiences them?
16:33I personally have never noticed the stigmata,
16:35I saw them, I saw Padre Pio suffering,
16:39I saw Padre Pio bleeding from the stigmata, especially during the celebrations of Mass,
16:43on Fridays in particular, which I was also lucky enough to get close to
16:46both to serve the evening services and for the mass.
16:50But that wasn't the aspect that interested me.
16:52It was the others who pointed out to me that Padre Pio had the stigmata.
16:56What I liked about him was the atmosphere he created around him.
16:59That is, being close to Padre Pio meant above all peace, tranquility, serenity,
17:05an availability, so to speak, towards others,
17:09because he taught it to us from an early age in the greatest way.
17:34He was born in Pietralcina on May 26, 1887.
17:38Francesco Forgione, his name, a family of farmers, eight children,
17:43she leaves her mother with great pain to go to the convent.
17:46The simple vows, the solemn ones, the priestly order in 1910.
17:51All this in the shadow of poor health,
17:54more than a mysterious illness that forced him to return home for long periods.
17:57His native land is indelible in his memories, in his writings.
18:01Always mortified, collected in silence, not a word more than necessary.
18:06Already at a very young age he had celestial visions, true ecstasies,
18:10later they will be studied and analyzed, and he fought with the devil.
18:15He wrote, the devil wants me for himself, at any cost.
18:19In 1910 the first appearance of the stigmata.
18:23They will disappear and return eight years later, on September 20th,
18:27to accompany him and to dissolve a moment before his death.
18:34Those bleeding wounds on the hands, on the feet, on the side,
18:37who shed blood every day, more abundantly between Friday and Sunday,
18:41that smell good and don't get worse, for 50 years straight,
18:45it's not just physical suffering.
18:48Doctors, scientists, clergymen, all study them, examine them,
18:53Nobody can explain it to her.
18:55What was your personal attitude towards Padre Pio's stigmata?
19:00I had an attitude,
19:01I was watching them,
19:03I observed them, but it wasn't an attitude of curiosity.
19:06For me Padre Pio existed beyond the stigmata,
19:09beyond mystical phenomena,
19:10beyond all.
19:11Look, how many people stood before Padre Pio?
19:14Maybe with this kind of attitude...
19:17The Lord gives souls,
19:21of particular charisms,
19:22to attract souls.
19:24But that's not what matters.
19:26What matters is love
19:27that these souls are able to give to others
19:31and that is the medicine that is healthy, in essence.
19:36Because humanity today suffers so much because it is without love.
19:41What did the people who came to Padre Pio want?
19:43It's difficult, everyone had their own request,
19:45I mean, it's hard to generalize.
19:46Yes, most people came
19:48for spiritual and temporal requests,
19:50but afterwards they came out completely transformed.
19:54Almost as if the Lord made use of those physical and spiritual needs
19:58to then transform and convert people.
20:01That is, meeting Padre Pio imposed a line of conduct
20:04either of conversion or of aversion.
20:06Either against him or with him.
20:10Whoever is not with me is against me, says Jesus in the Gospel.
20:13It's something like coming to Padre Pio.
20:15The disappearance of the estimate before his death,
20:18shortly before his death, what do you think?
20:21But, you see, estimates are an exclusively physical fact.
20:25It's not that the transcendent has anything to do with it,
20:27we already said it.
20:28And so that depends solely on the intensity of the application of thought,
20:35of the concentration of the subject's thoughts on certain themes.
20:40Probably the physical weakening also presupposed a weakening
20:45of his ability to concentrate.
20:48You probably know that, after all, these are so-called hysterical personalities,
20:53in quotation marks, where there is intense psychological participation on the part of the subject.
21:01The estimate was the subject of a first medical examination in 1919.
21:07Padre Pio's cautious superiors did not speak.
21:10The Catholic press is silent, but the news is spreading anyway.
21:14It attracts crowds of curious people, fanatics, believers, pilgrims,
21:18in need of material and spiritual help.
21:20Padre Pio hears confessions 16 hours a day.
21:25In 1922 the Holy Office intervenes,
21:28today Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
21:31The restrictions and prohibitions begin.
21:34There is talk of Padre Pio's transfer from San Giovanni Rotondo.
21:38The crowd of faithful threatens to riot.
21:41On June 17, 23, Padre Pio received the order not to celebrate masses in public,
21:46not to confess, not to write or receive letters.
21:49From 23 to 33, ten terrible years.
21:53Padre Pio never replied, he never defended himself from the slander,
21:56he obeyed every decision of his superiors.
22:00There were those who considered this man a saint,
22:03but there were also many who had doubts, who had suspicions.
22:07Well, I'm not afraid to say that I too was among those who went to San Giovanni Rotondo.
22:14a little disoriented, a little lost.
22:16I didn't know, I hadn't had direct experience until now with Padre Pio,
22:21but inside I didn't want to go out with those who thought he was a saint,
22:27nor with those who thought he was a fine zebubo.
22:30A term that has come back into fashion these days, a devil.
22:33I said, I want to go behind the scenes, watch.
22:37If this word wasn't bad, I would almost say spying and then drawing a conclusion.
22:44Well, in all honesty I have to say it didn't take that long.
22:47to understand that we were facing a man truly different from the others.
22:53The most mistreated, the most humiliated, slandered, all those threats, that shit that arrived down there in San Giovanni
23:00Round,
23:02and yet he was the most serene, the most tranquil.
23:06And this fact won me over and made me really think,
23:10because in situations like that we would have had very different reactions.
23:15Not him.
23:17Without denying the significance of those investigations, of those punishments,
23:24However, he accepted everything with a spirit of sacrifice and offered everything to the Lord.
23:31And I remember that one evening in the bedroom there was just him and me.
23:37Threats, bans, and all sorts of stuff kept coming in there.
23:42Padre Pio was praying and I was right in front of him.
23:46I ask him point-blank,
23:49Spiritual Father, would you please pray a little?
23:52according to my intentions.
23:54Padre Pio looks me in the face and says no, I can't.
23:58I say why can't he?
23:59And because I know what your intentions are.
24:03At that moment I invoked God's curse,
24:07God's punishment on all those who rained down all those threats
24:12in San Giovanni Odondo, those prohibitions.
24:14I was very young, I realized the life this man led.
24:19Should I give it or not?
24:21Don't even give him medals.
24:23But to trample her, that for me was the greatest injustice.
24:26Yes, I refused to accept those limitations that came my way.
24:31there in San Giovanni Odondo towards Padre Pio
24:33and towards us friars who were there.
24:37Padre Pio, however, as if he had had a long conversation with me,
24:41he came out in this expression, my son,
24:43we are not required to think the way they think,
24:48but we are required to obey.
24:57At the first trial opened by the Church against him
25:00another followed, another ten years later, between 53 and 63.
25:04At the basis of this second investigation, not the mystery of the stigmata,
25:08but an economic question.
25:11The Capuchin order, which had been defrauded
25:13by an unscrupulous financier,
25:15he wanted to make up for it by using the money offered to Padre Pio by the faithful
25:19for the construction of a hospital.
25:21In both processes, however,
25:23Padre Pio had a good part of the clergy with him.
25:26Both Pius XII and Paul VI openly sided with him,
25:30causing all persecution against him to cease after many years.
25:36Today, another pope, John Paul II, has taken this to heart.
25:39and is working to ensure the cause for the beatification of the holy friar
25:44have the right outcome.
25:50Gentlemen and brothers in Christ,
25:54the cause of relief from suffering is complete.
25:59I thank the benefactors from all over the world who cooperated.
26:03This is the creature that providence, aided by you, has created,
26:08I present it to you.
26:10Look at it and bless the Lord God with me.
26:14A seed has been placed in the earth that will warm him with the evenings of love.
26:21A new militia made of sacrifices and love
26:24is about to arise for the glory of God and to converge the souls and bodies in the Word.
26:31Don't deny us your help, collaborate in this postulate of relief from human suffering.
26:39And divine charity which knows no limits and which is in the very light of God and of eternal life.
26:46will accumulate for each of you a treasure of graces that Jesus made a network for us on the cross.
26:55The hospital is the fruit of his earthly work, the home is the relief of suffering.
27:00A state-of-the-art hospital, 1,276 beds, 2,400 employees, and a turnover of €300 billion.
27:08The foundation stone was laid in the spring of 1947.
27:11Padre Pio had 4.5 million euros in his coffers, donated by the faithful.
27:15It is defined as the earthly miracle of Padre Pio.
27:18But he said, I don't do miracles, I only pray.
27:23Compared to other hospitals, what makes this one different?
27:31I would say differently...
27:34For those who come here, let's say, not for those who work here.
27:36The original concept that the father wanted the work to be inspired by.
27:46He has already said in his speech of May 5, 1956...
27:56At the inauguration.
27:57At the inauguration, exactly.
27:59he focused the theme of the relief of suffering on a motto that is both faith and science.
28:18And in fact he gave the hospital this imprint.
28:25And do faith and science still walk together here?
28:28Health workers have... are chosen and have a religious background
28:39so the problem of suffering is seen from two perspectives
28:52of the need for man to be able to take advantage of all the resources, of all the means that science makes available to us
29:02disposition.
29:02From this point of view, the father wanted the hospital to be suitable for, these are his exact words,
29:15to the most daring clinical needs, but also from the perspective of faith.
29:22So the man is cared for in body and spirit together.
29:33The small town in the Gargano, a harsh and stingy land, lives on Padre Pio.
29:38The hotels are now stuck together, the square in front of the convent is full of buses of visitors,
29:44the project for the new church, as in Lourdes, as in Fatima, we ask ourselves again who was the father
29:50Pious.
29:52Hey, but was she in San Giovanni Rotondo?
29:54I haven't been there, but I have been to other places, such as Lourdes, Fatima, places of miracles as well.
30:03Why do I dislike him?
30:05I don't like him and, above all, his presence was managed in an immediately commercial way.
30:11While instead as regards Lourdes, as regards Fatima,
30:15People like Bernadette or the children of Fatima did not wield power themselves at all.
30:23If you think about it, Bernadette, the one from Lourdes, who had visions of the Madonna, entered the convent when
30:31There were already representations of stained glass windows with her seeing the Madonna.
30:38But she died completely unknown and so in this sense I think there is perhaps a justification.
30:49That is, our time communicates so much that trade explodes, right?
30:54So this could somehow justify the figure of Padre Pio.
30:59However, I dislike him because of this huge trade that has been made of his power.
31:05Padre Pio was a sign of contradiction, he was a sign of contradiction in the Church and in the Church itself.
31:13human society.
31:15And as all signs of contradiction leave their marks, they leave their mark when you hear about them.
31:23or one becomes aware of actions that these signs of contradiction perform.
31:35I would almost like to say that Padre Pio was a, I would say, a testimony in a century of materialism and
31:50ethnonicism
31:50of something that men have forgotten.
31:54And this is what...
31:55And this creates, creates, creates, creates stumbling blocks in the people who love Padre Pio.
32:02Because talking about our father fills us with joy.
32:06And in the people who fought Padre Pio, they create greater resentment and greater hatred.
32:12So in any case Padre Pio cannot go unnoticed.
32:21Mass at 5am, confessions, short break for meals, so to speak, the caloric balance
32:27daily was negligible.
32:30More confessions and then prayers until late at night.
32:33For half a century these were his days.
32:36Choir, church, cell.
32:38On miracles, healings, his gifts, bilocation, mind reading, prophecies, multiplication of the loaves,
32:46we have deliberately not lingered in the effort to look beyond.
32:50For the rest, Padre Pio said, I am a mystery even to myself.
33:19Pius says, I am a mystery even to myself.
34:07Pius says, I am a mystery even to myself.
34:20Pius says, I am a mystery even to myself.
34:38Pius says, I am a mystery even to myself.
34:43Thank you all.
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