00:00Pakistan has been the primary mediator in the U.S.-Iran war, using its relationship with both Washington and Tehran to
00:08maintain a fragile ceasefire and continue to push for face-to-face talks.
00:13Malia Lodi is the country's former ambassador to the United States, also former permanent representative to the United Nations.
00:21I think we should bear in mind that there's a lot of heavy posturing going on by both sides.
00:26And President Trump says one thing one day and another another day.
00:32So we have to sort of, you know, distinguish between optics and substance.
00:36I think at the moment, Pakistan is very active in conveying messages back and forth between Tehran and Washington.
00:44And it remains hopeful that the two sides, although they have been saying things which suggest escalation,
00:52escalation, but they both actually really want a diplomatic solution.
00:58If they didn't, they wouldn't have had talks that they did in Islamabad earlier this month.
01:03And of course, they continue to be engaged.
01:06And neither side has shut the door on diplomacy.
01:10How much time pressure is there on this matter, in your view?
01:13We've just heard that the United Arab Emirates has pulled out of OPEC.
01:19We know that the price of oil is currently over $110 a barrel.
01:27Well, obviously, the costs of this conflict are going up.
01:30They're mounting day by day.
01:32And I think that is one of the driving factors that will make both sides in this conflict, Iran as
01:39well as the United States,
01:41come to the conclusion that they must not revert back to warfare and they must find an off-ramp from
01:49this crisis.
01:50I believe there is an intention on both sides to do so.
01:54But they seem to be caught up in a who will blink first dynamic.
01:58So, in other words, neither side wants to show any flexibility,
02:01thinking that that would be regarded or construed by the other side as a win.
02:06And therefore, that will strengthen their negotiating position.
02:10So, I think this tit-for-tat plus this who blink first dynamic has created this issue
02:17where there is no forward movement, but at the same time, communication has not come to a halt.
02:23Pakistan, of course, has good relations with both the United States and Iran.
02:27So, what is the most effective way for mediators to use those strong connections
02:33to actually build trust between the opposing sides?
02:38Well, trust is very difficult.
02:40And trust is really tested once there is some progress in talk.
02:47So, I think to say that you have to have trust at the start of a process
02:50and the process is still, you know, in its, let's say, early days, relatively speaking.
02:55But as far as Pakistan and China are concerned, I think their emphasis, in fact,
03:02they agreed on a five-point plan for peace in the Middle East
03:06when our Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister visited China in March, I think it was.
03:12So, those five points remain, I think, integral to finding a diplomatic solution to the conflict.
03:20And those five points emphasize, of course, an end to hostilities,
03:24you know, protecting the sovereignty, observing and abiding by the sovereignty of countries,
03:29as well as avoiding non-military targets, protecting civilians.
03:34And these are very important points, I think.
03:37And if they were to be implemented, I think we will then see progress.
03:41China and Pakistan are celebrating 75 years of diplomatic relations.
03:46How important is the Pakistan President's visit to China coming at this particular time?
03:53Well, it's part of, you know, marking this very crucial year,
03:5875th anniversary of a relationship that has stood the test of time,
04:03that has grown from strength to strength, both the economic dimension,
04:08the defense dimension, people-to-people contact.
04:10So, yes, President Zardari's visit at this time would help to strengthen that relationship.
04:16That's Malia Lodi.
04:18She is the former Pakistani ambassador to the United States.
04:22She is the former Pakistani ambassador to the United States.
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