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Rip off Britain - Season 18 Episode 1 - Home improvement company lies cost me thousands
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00:00Today, the 95-year-old who's still shaken after her brush with the home improvement company that took her money
00:07and never returned.
00:08It was heart-wrenching and horrific to hear that my 95-year-old mother had been put into a van
00:17and taken to the bank to withdraw £1,800.
00:21Plus, never-ending terms and conditions.
00:24With one holiday company's T's and C's running to more than 13,000 words,
00:30we reveal how AI can help you navigate the unnavigable.
00:34Always looking out for you. This is Ripoff Britain.
00:45Hello and welcome to Ripoff Britain and our HQ in Salford.
00:49Now, this is a team that always has your back when you think that you've been treated unfairly and just
00:55can't get any resolution.
00:56Including today, the holiday cover that stood next to no chance of paying out.
01:01When Beverly from Lincoln came to her advice clinic, she'd been refused the payout because the snow and ice that
01:07forced her to cancel her trip weren't extreme enough for the insurer.
01:18Also today, the disabled driver chased by debt collectors for a parking charge that should never have been issued and
01:26how can you find a tradesperson you can trust?
01:28We've put together a handy how-to guide to help you avoid the likes of the firm at the heart
01:34of our first film today.
01:36That's absolutely right because when 95-year-old Edna from Manchester picked up the phone to a cold caller last
01:43March,
01:43it was the caller's opening salvo that drew her in.
01:46Now, she says they claim to be associated with Age UK, after which any scepticism Edna might have had disappeared.
01:55However, that was a lie which, as we're about to find out, had the most serious consequences.
02:14Hello?
02:14In March 2025, retired cafe owner Edna Jones from Farnworth in Greater Manchester received a call out of the blue.
02:24I got this phone call and it just said to be Age UK and didn't want any maintenance doing.
02:31So I said I could do with a gardener.
02:34Edna normally gives cold callers the cold shoulder.
02:38I'd put the phone down really, which I normally do if I've got a funny phone call.
02:42But, she says, the mention of Age UK kept her on the phone, especially because of her direct connection with
02:50the charity.
02:51I go to Age UK every week dancing.
02:53There'd been a volunteer there.
02:55And I just thought, well, if it's Age UK, it'll be all above board, like, you know.
03:01If the answer said Age UK in the beginning, I wouldn't have been interested, really.
03:07Edna says the caller told her they could put her in touch with a local company called Primestone Homes,
03:13not to be confused with companies of a similar name, which would be able to complete the garden maintenance work
03:18that she was after.
03:19And, after a second call, Edna says she agreed for the firm to carry out a survey the following Saturday.
03:26At first, all went as she expected.
03:28This couple came and he went round the garden telling what everything wanted doing.
03:34And she were writing it all down on a paper, like, you know.
03:37After around an hour, Edna says the pair came inside and gave her a quote.
03:42The price was a hefty £3,750, but that would include clearing overgrown trees and bushes, repairing a fence, replacing
03:53decking, and two maintenance visits a year.
03:57Compared with what I paid other things in the garden, I think it seemed pretty reasonable.
04:02So I was quite happy about it.
04:07Edna says she was told the company would need half the money there and then.
04:12I said, well, I haven't got that sort of money here, like, you know, I have to go to the
04:16bank.
04:17So then they said, well, we'll take you in the van.
04:22I thought, well, it'll save me a journey another time.
04:26And with them saying, like, they would officially come from Age UK, I was just happy about everything.
04:35But the bank was closed.
04:37So, back at home, Edna agreed to pay the £1,875 by cheque instead.
04:46The couple left, telling Edna they'd be back the following Wednesday and someone would be in touch to confirm the
04:52details.
04:55Edna mentioned all this to her daughter, Karen, when they spoke the following day.
05:00But by Wednesday morning, she says there'd be no further contact.
05:04Mum had phoned me quite agitated that they hadn't called her on the Monday or turned up on the Wednesday
05:10like they'd promised.
05:11So Karen picked up the baton on her mum's behalf.
05:15She called Primestone and was told the company had tried to call Edna on both Monday and Tuesday.
05:21But Karen was sceptical.
05:23She had been in all day on the Tuesday and no messages had been left on her answering machine, so
05:28they hadn't tried to contact her.
05:30Primestone promised to attend in eight days' time, saying it was fully booked until then.
05:34But after speaking to the company, Karen was starting to have serious doubts about its credentials.
05:42Just with their mannerism, with their tone of voice, they came across quite unprofessional.
05:49And when I did come off the phone, I thought, hmm, I'm going to just take a look at this
05:53company, read the reviews, try and dig a little bit deeper into them.
05:58Karen found a litany of negative reviews, some of which made serious allegations about the company's conduct.
06:06At this stage, alarm bells were massively ringing in my head that obviously something was desperately wrong and that measures
06:14needed to be taken.
06:16I began to think that the people who had come to visit and who I was speaking to that morning
06:22were unconnected to Age UK.
06:24Karen called the charity's Bolton branch and it bore out her misgivings.
06:30Age UK Bolton does not recommend or endorse individual contractors or firms and we have not authorised anyone to make
06:37contact on our behalf for this type of service.
06:43Obviously then that confirmed to me my worst fears, that mum had been duped.
06:49Karen reported what had happened to the police and action fraud and in desperation, she alerted Edna's bank in the
06:57hope that the cheque written six days earlier could be cancelled.
07:00With Edna at her side to recount what happened, it was only then that Karen discovered that Edna had been
07:07taken in a van in an attempt to withdraw the cash.
07:10I was hearing it for the first time as I'm relaying it to the fraud team and it was taking
07:17all my effort not to cry because it was heart-wrenching and horrific to hear that my 95-year-old
07:28mother had been put into a van and taken to the bank to withdraw £1,800.
07:36It was too late. The bank told Karen the cheque had already cleared. Karen called Primestone to demand a refund,
07:43but after initially promising Edna would get her money back, the company backtracked, blaming financial difficulties.
07:51It left me feeling very frustrated, very let down, very sad for mum because the longer this went on, the
08:00more apparent it was that we were never going to get this deposit refund back for her.
08:06The whole experience has taken an emotional toll on the family.
08:11It's a lot of money to lose and I've worked all my life and I've never had much, so it
08:17just, it hurt really.
08:20I'm sorry. Don't be sorry, mum. None of this is your fault. None of this is your fault, none of
08:26it.
08:26Well, it is in a way because I trusted them, didn't I? Probably that's my trouble.
08:46Well, what an incredibly upsetting story and I'm very pleased to say that Edna and Karen are here with us
08:54in HQ along with solicitor Denise Nurse and our producer Dave Quinn.
08:59Karen and Edna, we could see from the film that this has had a huge impact on you and I'm
09:05just wondering how you are now.
09:07Well, I'm getting over it a bit now, like, you know, but I still feel cheated.
09:13I'm frightened of answering the phone in case something like that happens again.
09:16I can well understand that. Karen, have you managed to get any further with getting the money back?
09:23No, to this date and it's been almost 12 months now and we've not received any money back.
09:29Well, let's hope that between them, Denise and Dave can give you some information that might help.
09:34And Dave, I know you've been looking into Primestone Homes. What have you found?
09:38Well, the first thing we can say about Primestone Homes is it's no longer trading, but we do know that
09:43Companies House have been having a look into their activities.
09:46So Companies House went through a process of looking to strike them off their register completely.
09:52But actually, just shortly after that, they decided to suspend it and that process is on hold at the moment.
09:57One other thing we can say is that Primestone Homes haven't filed their accounts in time.
10:02So that's another reason why it's a sort of a red flag for some of the activity that this company
10:06has been going through.
10:07And Denise, can you perhaps enlarge on that from the legal point of view and explain what that means for
10:12Edna's chances of getting her money back?
10:15Yes, absolutely. The company is like a legal entity in itself.
10:20And if it gets struck off the register, it would no longer exist.
10:25The good news, I think, from this is that that's been suspended.
10:28So right now it does exist.
10:31And that means you could put a claim in through the Small Claims Court to recover your money.
10:35Unfortunately, I have to say this situation looks like a company that's been in a bit of trouble.
10:41So the possibility that there's any money there to recover, we don't know.
10:45But you have that right. You've paid money.
10:47You can ask for that back now because there's been a breach of contract.
10:51But wouldn't that cost me more than what they actually owe Mum in the first place to be able to
10:55do that, to take them to Small Claims?
10:57Well, not necessarily. Actually, the court fees can be quite low and it's set up as a system that you
11:02can do this yourself and put all the information and evidence in.
11:06You can use the details that you've got on Companies House, the address that's listed there, put in the details
11:11online and do it online.
11:13It's a money claim online.
11:14Oh, right. OK, that's helpful. Thank you.
11:45Dave, what else have you learned?
11:47Well, this company's based in Bradford originally.
11:51So we spoke to Trading Standards in West Yorkshire.
11:54They confirmed that they have actually taken action on two cases in particular.
11:59We don't know the details of that, but we know that those have been investigated and they've took action against
12:03them.
12:04So, Edna, you're not alone.
12:06This company has been doing things to other people as well.
12:10How does that make you feel?
12:11I hope they've not gone through what I've gone through because it's very disheartening.
12:16Well, it's very generous spirited of you to say you're upset for them.
12:20And Dave, I mean, this so-called link to Age UK, there isn't one, is there?
12:25Well, Age UK told us that it doesn't work with Primestone Homes at all on any level.
12:30And it also said, Edna, it was really sorry to hear what had happened to you.
12:34And I think the general advice would be if you are told by a company that contacts you that they
12:39work with a charity,
12:40it's worth definitely finding the number for that charity yourself, phoning them up and saying, is this true or not?
12:46And just being on your guard, really.
12:48Well, Edna, you're certainly not alone in being convinced by people who are not telling the truth.
12:53And, Denise, pressure selling doesn't always feel aggressive, does it?
12:57The thing here is they are very clever and they took a lot of time to spend time with you,
13:02didn't they?
13:03In your home, looking at your garden and convincing you that they were friendly,
13:08convincing you that they worked with Age UK, who you believe in, who you trust.
13:12And so pressure selling can look like that sometimes.
13:16Picking on the things that you already trust, that you already believe in, and then doubling down on that.
13:21If someone is watching this and they might feel that they are in the same position that you were in,
13:27what would your advice be?
13:28Just double check everything.
13:31It doesn't take two minutes just to pick up the telephone, double check the details that somebody's given you,
13:37or even to go online and just Google the company name, the director's name.
13:43Are they actually real people with a real business?
13:46Just ask questions before you actually hand over any money.
13:51But the last thing Edna expected when all this started was to have to do homework on people who'd won
13:58her trust.
13:59I've learnt from it, like, you know, just hope everybody, you don't have to go through what I've gone through,
14:06and just take care when you do answer the phone, you know.
14:10You're so brave to come in, actually, today and talk about this in public, and we really, really appreciate it.
14:18Thank you both very much indeed, and thank you, Denise, for all that wonderful advice,
14:21and thanks for all the digging you did, Dave, too.
14:25We did, of course, speak to Primestone Homes about Edna's experience,
14:30and it categorically denied that its representatives drove Edna to the bank to obtain payment,
14:36or that it had ever claimed to be affiliated with or connected to Age UK.
14:42The company confirmed that it has now ceased trading following significant operational challenges
14:48and unforeseen and difficult circumstances.
14:51It stressed that any resulting delays or disruptions were unintentional,
14:57and it regrets any distress that may have arisen.
15:02Meanwhile, following Denise's advice, Edna and Karen now plan to refer their case to the Small Claims Court,
15:09and, of course, we'll keep in touch with how they get on.
15:15Well, if all of that has left you wondering how you can find a trustworthy and reliable firm to do
15:20work on your home,
15:21here's consumer expert Harry Kine's how-to guide.
15:29Dreaming of a brand-new kitchen extension,
15:32but having trouble thinking over the burst pipe in your bathroom?
15:36I'm Harry Kine, the everyday expert,
15:39and this is my guide on how to find a great tradesperson to help you out.
15:44Step one, where to look.
15:48The builder, majestic in their natural habitat of the calf.
15:52No, sorry, that's not right.
15:54In the 21st century, most people looking for a top-notch modern tradesperson will start online.
16:00Searching through trade review websites is a great place to start,
16:03but take their ratings with a pinch of salt and always use multiple websites.
16:08Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
16:10Check online forums, Facebook groups, local neighbourhood WhatsApps.
16:16But make sure that you do your due diligence.
16:19Be wary of any pages that have started in just the last couple of months.
16:22And if only one or two people are giving very positive comments on pages,
16:27it might just be their friends and family.
16:30Take the time now to fill your phone with great contractors.
16:34The last time you want to be searching for an emergency Sparky is at 2am on a Saturday night.
16:43When it comes to cold callers, be very, very wary.
16:47As we all know, there's a massive shortage of qualified and experienced contractors out there,
16:52and so they're batting away jobs with a four-foot level.
16:54If they come cold calling, they're probably not the best in the business.
16:59Sorry.
17:00Step two, what to ask.
17:03Once you've found some candidates, it's question time.
17:05It can feel a bit un-British, but now is the time to be demanding, not later.
17:10Here's some questions that you might want to ask.
17:14How long have you been trading?
17:16Can I talk to some former clients?
17:18What qualifications do you have?
17:21What kind of insurance do you have?
17:23Are you part of a trade association?
17:25Do you need me to pay anything up front?
17:28Can you provide a building regulations compliance certificate?
17:31And if you think that's a lot of questions, you've got to ask those three times because you need to
17:36get at least three quotes.
17:38Make sure those quotes break down labour, materials, and BAT.
17:43Step three, get building.
17:45You've found the perfect trader, but before the shovels hit the ground, make sure you follow these steps.
17:52If it's a big job, make sure to get a full contract that lays out exactly what to expect and
17:58when.
17:59Templates can be found online.
18:01Even on smaller jobs, it pays to communicate as much in writing as possible.
18:05It might be something that you rely on later to resolve disputes.
18:09The only up front payment you should make is for materials.
18:12And even then, many contractors have credit accounts with their suppliers.
18:17And if possible, pay by card.
18:20That gives you that powerful Section 75 protection via credit card and charge back with debit cards if something does
18:26go wrong.
18:27It may seem a bit out of place to have a card reader on a building site, but if you
18:31go into any builder's merchants, you're constantly being sold portable card readers.
18:35So it's never been easier for a builder to take your money.
18:38Now the most important job.
18:40Get the kettle on.
18:42Milking six sugars, please.
18:48And now it's time to tackle more of your problems in the Advice Clinic.
18:54The Advice Clinic is on the road.
18:57Bringing the best consumer advice.
18:59I really think they've got it wrong here.
19:00I think that's a very questionable claim.
19:02To you.
19:07It's raining today here in Mansfield, but a couple of weeks ago, it was even worse.
19:12There was snow and ice, which forced rip-off Britain viewer Beverly to have to cancel her holiday.
19:17Despite having insurance for exactly that, she had to pay out.
19:21That's Beverly Ballag from Lincolnshire, and she knows a thing or two about travel.
19:27Because I was born in Southampton, and I saw the ships come in and out when I was a child,
19:33that's what took me to cruising.
19:35Cruising took me all over the world.
19:38But the holiday Beverly needs our help with in January 2026 was much closer to home.
19:44In fact, it's just half an hour's drive from her house.
19:47I was going to Thursby Hall Hotel, which I've visited often in the last three years.
19:55I love it there.
19:57It was more than a hotel.
19:59My friends even called it my second home.
20:02It's part of the Warner Hotels group, and the four-night break set 85-year-old Beverly back £369,
20:10with £30 on top for Warner's own holiday protection plan.
20:15It offers peace of mind if something doesn't go to plan, including illness and adverse weather.
20:21And on the day of Beverly's trip, she would certainly describe the weather as adverse.
20:27I woke up, looked out of the window, and there was about four or five centimetres of snow on the
20:37ground.
20:38BBC Radio, Lincolnshire.
20:40Another news has a yellow weather warning in place for snow and ice in Lincolnshire.
20:45Police say they've had 30 reports of crashes since midnight.
20:49And I was really upset, because at my age, I'm disabled.
20:55I just knew I would not be able to travel.
20:59The weather forecast was saying, don't risk unnecessary journeys.
21:04And the highway code said, if it's snowy and icy, then you shouldn't make any unnecessary journeys.
21:13Beverly's post-Christmas break was off, so she got on the phone, first to the hotel,
21:18then to Warner's customer service line.
21:20Nobody was picking up the phone.
21:22And that's when I thought, email them, tell them, but all to no avail that day.
21:28In fact, it wasn't until lunchtime the following day that someone called her back.
21:34On that call, Beverly explained she wanted a claim under the protection plan,
21:38which, as far as she understood, covered her for adverse weather.
21:42But the Warner agent wasn't so sure.
21:45She said, you're not covered because there was no red alert for my area.
21:54You could make a claim, she said, or fill out a claims form online,
22:00but she said it will be rejected.
22:03The policy would only have paid out if the Met Office had issued a red weather warning for the area.
22:10And it hadn't.
22:11So loyal customer Beverly was left £400 out of pocket.
22:18Determined not to take that lying down,
22:20she's on her way to Mansfield Central Library and our advice clinic.
22:24Hello, Beverly.
22:26Hello, Mary.
22:26How are you? Are you all right?
22:28Armed with proof of just how bad the weather really was,
22:32for personal finance expert Amy Knight to pour over.
22:35Heavy snow spreading inland, causing disruption on roads.
22:38I mean, it was snow and ice, wasn't it?
22:41It was icy.
22:42Mm-hm.
22:42I have a double hip replacement.
22:45I daren't walk on snowy or icy grounds,
22:47and I definitely would not actually drive in those conditions.
22:53Amy believes there's little wonder Beverly thought
22:56Warner's holiday protection plan would cover her.
22:58This is the Warner holiday protection,
23:00and it includes adverse weather conditions such as storms and blizzards.
23:05It doesn't say anywhere in that box that other terms and conditions apply.
23:11No.
23:11You have to really go hunting.
23:14After much searching, Amy found the clause that's scuppering Beverly's claim.
23:19OK, so it says,
23:20the adverse weather condition cover is only applicable on the day of travel
23:24and if your journey will be affected by a red weather warning.
23:27I mean, it's a tiny word, red.
23:29And it's absolutely buried.
23:30My goodness me.
23:32But Met Office's red weather warnings are super rare.
23:35So rare, in fact, that only seven were issued between November 2021
23:39and the end of 2025 across the whole of the UK,
23:44all of which makes the chances of a payout under this clause of the policy rather slim.
23:51I mean, the terms and conditions may be the terms and conditions,
23:54but it doesn't feel right, does it?
23:56No, it's not customer-friendly at all.
23:58And I feel very strongly about it because I have been such a good...
24:03And there'll be other people who are equally loyal customers.
24:07It's Beverly's loyalty that Amy believes should beat the T's and C's on this occasion.
24:1324 times I've been to Warner's.
24:16And you'd like to continue using them in the future?
24:18Yes, I would.
24:18So I think that's the message we need to get across to the customer service team
24:23and appeal to them as reasonable human beings
24:27that this is a customer who has some health conditions
24:31and we really want her to keep coming back.
24:34But when we readied ourselves to put that case to Warner,
24:37we hit much the same obstacle that Beverly came up against
24:40when she tried to get in touch.
24:42There was no-one there.
24:44The customer care team will be available Monday to Friday
24:48from 9am until 1pm.
24:50But Amy's got a plan.
24:53We need to get the former complaint in progress
24:56because if we want to escalate it any further,
25:00we need to have followed the proper channels in the first instance.
25:04So you need to basically gather as much hard evidence as possible,
25:08which you've done a really thorough job of, by the way.
25:10So all of that combined with the fact that you're a loyal customer,
25:15hopefully will be enough for them to consider a gesture of goodwill,
25:21if not a full reimbursement of what you've spent.
25:24What would make you happy?
25:26Quite honestly, an apology would even be nice.
25:30Yeah.
25:30And do you know what? Apologies don't cost money.
25:32No, they don't.
25:34So Beverly headed home, armed with Amy's plan for a formal complaint.
25:38But Warner stuck to its original decision.
25:42However, our team was also talking to the company.
25:45Time for me to catch up with Beverly.
25:48Hi, Beverly. How are you doing?
25:50I'm doing OK, thank you.
25:52I understand that someone has reached out to you.
25:54What have they said?
25:56It was the sales and customer service manager,
26:00and she said that they were going to give me a free holiday.
26:05Wow. How do you feel about that?
26:07Well, I actually was gobsmacked, to be quite honest,
26:11because it seemed to have been a lot of hard work
26:14getting them to actually realise, you know,
26:19that an 80... Oh, no, I'm 86 now.
26:22I nearly said 85.
26:23An 86-year-old pensioner needed some consideration.
26:28Well, I just want to say, well done.
26:32Warner told us it was sorry Beverly was disappointed
26:35and it understood her concerns about travelling in winter conditions.
26:39It maintained that its decision was in line
26:41with the terms of its protection policy,
26:44but said it has listened to her feedback
26:46and updated its website to ensure it's easy for guests to understand.
26:52It means, Beverly, you seem to hopefully have got a free holiday
26:56and your complaint very well might help other people
27:00avoiding similar situations.
27:02I'm pleased that, you know, that their terms and conditions have made it clearer
27:08because I'm sure there's a lot of people
27:10that could be under the same sort of situation that I was.
27:15I think you've done really good work.
27:17Are you proud of yourself? You should be.
27:19I'm going to pat myself on the back.
27:22I'd do it for you, but you've done a really good job.
27:25Take care, Beverly.
27:26Thank you very much, Louise.
27:29Well done, Beverly.
27:30And I love the fact that she actually gave herself a pat on the back.
27:32Now, if you've got a problem and you think that we can help,
27:35then do let us know about it
27:37and maybe the advice clinic could be heading
27:38to your neck of the woods very soon.
27:41Our email address is ripoffbritton at bbc.co.uk.
27:44And I tell you, we have got plenty of other ways to get in touch,
27:48which, of course, we'll tell you about later on.
27:51Now, solicitor Denise Nurse is back
27:53and we're also joined by consumer rights expert Martin James
27:56to answer your questions.
27:57And Martin, one for you first from Saz Skinner in Devon.
28:01Saz says her daughter moved out of her shared house recently,
28:05but the landlord has failed to return her deposit
28:08and has sent her a bill for £4,000 to cover damage
28:12he claims Saz's daughter caused.
28:14But when she says she definitely didn't, what can she do?
28:18Well, this is really, really unfair.
28:20But the good news is the laws and regulations
28:23are on Saz's daughter's side.
28:26When you are renting an apartment,
28:28that money that you pay as part of your deposit
28:30goes into what's known as a deposit protection scheme.
28:33And that means that when you come to leave,
28:35you can go to a deposit protection scheme
28:37if there's a dispute with a landlord
28:39about any damages that might be outstanding.
28:42If you're not sure if you're being treated fairly,
28:45free sites like Shelter have advice
28:47and you can find out more about your rights.
28:49So go to the deposit protection scheme
28:51and don't give up on this one.
28:53That's a crazy amount of money.
28:55Denise, the next round is from Day Seriani from Accrington
28:57who sent us this little message.
29:00I received a parking ticket for being nine minutes
29:04over the two-hour limit.
29:06I have spinal injuries and I do have a blue badge
29:09which I put on the dashboard.
29:11After I received the first ticket for 60 pounds,
29:14I went to the store manager
29:15and he advised me not to pay it.
29:18It then went to 100 and then to 170 with a debt collector.
29:23The ticket was cancelled the day before I paid it
29:27but the collection agency doesn't want to know
29:31and I would really like to get my money back.
29:33So she paid the debt collection agency
29:35even though she'd appealed and had her ticket cancelled.
29:38So can she get that other money back?
29:40Well, the ticket was cancelled
29:41which means there's no debt owed
29:43because there was no ticket.
29:45So she should be able to get her money back.
29:47She needs to put this in writing,
29:49I don't know if she has already,
29:50to the debt collection agency to say
29:52the ticket was cancelled.
29:53Show that evidence to them
29:55so that nothing was due and that she's paid in error.
29:58Also go back to the parking company
30:01because they're the ones who would have passed the debt
30:02on to the debt agency.
30:04So take the complaint to them
30:06and if all else fails,
30:07they can also contact the British Parking Association
30:10or the international parking community.
30:13Thank you both for your advice.
30:15Very useful.
30:16Now, it's impossible to count the number of times
30:18that we hear from people who feel hugely let down
30:21by one company or another
30:22only to be told,
30:23well, it's in the terms and conditions.
30:25But of course, we all know that some T's and C's
30:28can seem never-ending and impossible to read.
30:32Well, shortly I'm going to be learning a new trick
30:34that could put the power back in all our hands
30:37using the power of AI.
30:39So I'm looking forward to that a lot.
30:41But first, here's a reminder
30:42of the last time we investigated
30:44the astonishing length
30:46of some of those terms and conditions.
30:51Come on in.
30:52Off you go.
30:53Eight-year-old cockapoo Chester
30:55was the star of the show
30:57when owner Debbie Carter from Gravesend
30:59first showed him off to us back in 2023.
31:02Chester means the world to us,
31:04like another child, really, in the family.
31:06It's great company.
31:08It just means everything, really.
31:10We heard how Debbie was paying £39 a month
31:13to the insurer, Pep Protect,
31:15to cover Chester if anything unexpected should happen.
31:18So when he suffered an injury
31:20that would cost £5,000 in vet bills...
31:23They said it was crucial ligament damage
31:26and that it would require a big operation.
31:28Debbie was sure they'd be protected.
31:31It covered us for £6,000 accident and illness.
31:34I just thought, thank goodness, we're covered.
31:38Thankfully, Chester made a full recovery.
31:41Come on, up. Up.
31:45But when it came to paying the vet's bills,
31:47I'm afraid things were not as simple.
31:50Rather than cover the full amount,
31:52Pep Protect only paid out £750,
31:55leaving Debbie to foot the remaining £4,000 bill.
31:58Pep Protect said that we only covered up to £750
32:02for crucial ligament damage,
32:04which we absolutely shocked by.
32:08Debbie immediately turned to Pep Protect's terms and conditions,
32:12certain that she would have noticed such a clause
32:14when she took out the policy.
32:1631 pages later,
32:19she couldn't find any reference
32:20to the crucial ligament clause.
32:23It was only when she checked a second policy booklet
32:26from the following year.
32:27She realised that Chester wasn't fully covered after all.
32:32I don't think it's fair
32:33that you should have to trawl through this whole booklet
32:36to find out what has changed,
32:38what's not been changed.
32:41I feel like I was responsible by not reading it,
32:44but I just don't think they made it clear.
32:48Now, when we spoke to Pep Protect,
32:50it soon became clear what exactly had gone on.
32:53The Cruciate Ligament Clause
32:55was introduced in 2016,
32:57a year after Debbie first took out Chester's policy.
33:01Pep Protect told us that the clause and limitations
33:04were set out in its terms and conditions
33:06and its renewal paperwork from then onwards.
33:10But Debbie says that with most of those documents
33:12only being available digitally,
33:15she didn't always read them,
33:17relying instead on the hard copies
33:18she'd kept from the first two years of the policy.
33:21Pep Protect has told us
33:23that all insurance policies contain certain limitations
33:25and exemptions,
33:27which are essential in calculating the correct premium
33:30that a customer should pay.
33:32And it added that these are all explained to customers
33:34in a number of separate documents
33:36and on its website.
33:39For this experience, I've learned that I need to read
33:42all the T's and C's,
33:44which we didn't really do.
33:49But it's not just insurance policies
33:51that can have very lengthy terms and conditions.
33:54They are everywhere.
33:55And when we told Debbie's story,
33:57producer Katie Saatchi also explored the wordy world
34:01of holiday companies' terms and conditions,
34:04working out how long it would take to read the terms
34:06of six leading holiday companies
34:09based on an average reading speed of three words a second.
34:13Now, the shortest were Tui and Hayes Travel.
34:16So, for Tui, it would take you 18 minutes to read.
34:20It's just over 3,000 words.
34:22For Hayes Travel, 19 minutes, again,
34:24just under 3,500 words.
34:26EasyJet's clocked in at 47 minutes.
34:29Jet2 holidays would take one hour and six minutes
34:33and on the beach, an hour and 11 minutes.
34:36The longest of the six was Ho Seasons.
34:40So, I worked out that if I was going to take, you know,
34:43a nice weekend mini-break maybe to Conway in North Wales,
34:46that's about an hour and a half's drive from here in Salford.
34:50It would take me that entire journey
34:52to read those booking conditions.
34:53Every single word.
34:54Yes, which are nearly 16,500 words.
34:57That's five times longer than Tui's.
35:01At the time, Ho Seasons declined to comment,
35:03while On the Beach told us it would be separating
35:06its terms and conditions into two separate documents,
35:10one for package holidays
35:12and one for other kinds of break,
35:14meaning customers would need to read through much less.
35:18But fast forward a few years,
35:20and it seems there's now a way to shortcut
35:23those lengthy T's and C's using AI.
35:26And tech expert David McClelland
35:28is joining me in HQ to reveal all.
35:31First, though, Kate is back,
35:32and she's been checking up
35:34on whether those holiday companies
35:35have made their terms any less laborious.
35:41So, what have you discovered so far?
35:43Well, there was very little movement
35:44at the lower end of the leaderboard,
35:46so Tui had a small decrease.
35:48Their terms and conditions
35:49are now about 100 words shorter.
35:51That brings the reading time to 17 minutes,
35:54we calculated.
35:55Hayes Travel has added about 40 words,
35:58taking the time to about 20 minutes.
36:01Meanwhile, EasyJet has added about 500 words,
36:05and Jet2 Holidays has added 1,500 words,
36:10roughly an extra eight minutes.
36:12On the Beach stuck to its promise in 2023
36:14to separate its terms and conditions,
36:17which has taken the reading time down
36:19from one hour 11 minutes to around 32 minutes.
36:23So, as a reminder,
36:25the original T's and C's from them
36:27were just under 13,000 words.
36:30They have now got a separate set
36:31of package holiday terms and conditions,
36:33only around 3,000 words,
36:35but they've also now introduced a handbook,
36:38which is a similar length.
36:40They've also changed their approach
36:42with the rest of their terms and conditions.
36:43So, instead of a single set of T's and C's
36:47for other booking types,
36:48they've got specific terms
36:49for hotel-only bookings
36:51and for cruise bookings.
36:53So, that keeps the word count down
36:54for those customers as well.
36:56And what about host seasons?
36:57Yes.
36:58So, last time, they topped the list.
37:00It was about 16,500 words long,
37:03so about an hour and a half.
37:05But they've now split up
37:07their terms and conditions too.
37:08They've separated them
37:10into the following booking types,
37:12lodges and parks,
37:13cottages and boating holidays.
37:16And how's that working out?
37:17Well, the word count for each of those
37:18is roughly around the 5,000 to 6,000 mark,
37:22so around about half an hour each.
37:24So, a huge improvement on an hour and a half,
37:27you know, all in one long document.
37:29So, even though they didn't get back
37:31to us last time,
37:32it does feel like they might have listened.
37:35We picked this up with the two companies
37:37whose T's and C's have grown in length.
37:40EasyJet told us
37:41its booking conditions are regularly reviewed
37:44to ensure they remain clear, transparent
37:47and easy to understand.
37:49Adding that it has introduced
37:50a new quick glance section
37:52to highlight key points
37:54along with clearer wording in some areas.
37:57EasyJet said that booking conditions
37:58are an important part of any holiday,
38:00so it has made sure
38:02that everything is brought together
38:03in one place
38:04rather than across multiple pages
38:06of its website.
38:07And EasyJet added
38:08that it consistently receives
38:11positive feedback
38:11on its website's ease of use.
38:14Meanwhile, Jet2Holidays said
38:16the way it communicates with customers
38:18is integral to its customer service approach.
38:21So, as well as T's and C's we compared,
38:24it also sends out other guidance
38:26including on baggage,
38:27checking, mobility
38:29and medical assistance
38:30and other valuable information.
38:34But, even if all the firms we checked
38:37had added to their terms and conditions,
38:39David has got a way
38:40that could help you understand them
38:41without pouring over every word
38:43by using AI.
38:46I think finding the key bits
38:49in these enormous terms
38:51and conditions documents
38:52is actually a really useful use case
38:55for AI.
38:56The first thing you need to do,
38:58of course,
38:58is to make sure that your AI app
39:00and you can access that on your phone
39:02or your tablet
39:02or through a web browser
39:04on your computer or something,
39:05that it's got the right information.
39:07So, give your AI app
39:08the terms and conditions.
39:10You might be able to drag it and drop it
39:11or click on upload.
39:12Or, in some cases,
39:13you can just copy and paste
39:15the link from the website.
39:17Then you know
39:17that the conversation
39:18that you will have
39:19with your AI
39:20is based on the terms and conditions
39:22of that holiday company.
39:23Also, think about AI
39:25as if you're chatting to a friend
39:27who's read
39:27for an hour or more
39:29and digested this document
39:30and then have a conversation with them.
39:32Say,
39:33I want to know more
39:34about cancellation.
39:35Tell me everywhere
39:36in this terms and conditions document
39:38where it mentions
39:39last-minute cancellations
39:40and what I might be liable for,
39:42for example.
39:43So, to test this,
39:45the Ripoff Britain team
39:46went and looked at
39:47three different AI apps.
39:49So, Google, Gemini,
39:51Microsoft Copilot
39:52and Anthropics Claude.
39:54And they asked
39:55the same question
39:56about the same terms
39:57and conditions
39:58about cancellations
40:00and got three
40:01very different,
40:02none of them incorrect,
40:04but three very different responses.
40:07We gave the three AI tools
40:09the same set of terms
40:10and conditions
40:11and asked them
40:12whether we would be entitled
40:13to a full refund
40:14if we had to cancel
40:15our accommodation
40:16within hours of booking.
40:18The correct answer was no.
40:20But while all of the AIs
40:22were able to point to details
40:23in the relevant section
40:24of the T's and C's,
40:26only Claude
40:28drew our attention
40:29to the exemption
40:29that meant we would not
40:31be entitled to a refund.
40:33So, I think the message to me
40:36is that, yes,
40:37AI apps can be helpful
40:38in understanding terms
40:40and conditions,
40:40but ultimately,
40:42the same as with security,
40:43never trust,
40:44always verify,
40:46go back and check
40:48the actual terms
40:48and conditions yourself
40:50just to make sure
40:51that what the AI
40:52is telling you
40:53is indeed accurate.
40:54And a really good use
40:55for these AI tools
40:57might be to compare
40:58a new version
41:00of a terms and conditions
41:01with an old version
41:02of the terms and conditions.
41:03Load those documents
41:05or the links
41:06into your AI tool
41:07and just say,
41:08what's the difference
41:09between these two documents?
41:11And again,
41:11if you want to double check
41:12for yourself,
41:13say, show me where
41:15in the document
41:16it says that
41:17just so you can be certain
41:18that what you're seeing
41:19in your AI app
41:20is actually what's
41:21in the T's and C's.
41:23Whatever you ask
41:24an AI tool,
41:25it's worth bearing in mind
41:26that the information
41:27you provide
41:28is used to help improve
41:29the answers it gives
41:30to other users.
41:32So it's worth thinking carefully
41:33about sharing
41:34any personal details.
41:36I'm going to go back
41:37to Katie, actually.
41:38If people are not ready
41:39yet for AI,
41:40have you got any advice
41:41for that?
41:42Yeah, if you've got
41:43a digital copy
41:44of a policy
41:46or a set of terms
41:47and conditions,
41:47either if that's
41:48on a web page
41:49or, you know,
41:50it's been sent to you
41:51by a company,
41:52if you put that
41:52into a Word document,
41:54you can just go
41:54Control-F
41:56or Command-F
41:57if you're on a Mac
41:58and you can search
41:59for a specific term
42:00that you want to read about.
42:02I've done it that way before
42:03when we want to have a look
42:04at if someone's covered
42:05for a particular thing.
42:06You see?
42:07Katie's got a lot of things
42:08off her sleeve.
42:08Long before AI came in.
42:10Anyway,
42:11great information as always.
42:12Thank you both very much.
42:15If you've got a problem
42:16and you think
42:17our team might be able
42:18to help,
42:19there are lots of ways
42:20you can get in touch.
42:21You can email us
42:22at ripoffbritain
42:23at bbc.co.uk
42:25or send us
42:26a WhatsApp message
42:28to 033-0678-1321.
42:32We're also on Facebook.
42:34Just search for
42:35BBC Ripoff Britain.
42:37Or write us a letter.
42:38The address is
42:39Ripoff Britain,
42:40BBC Media City, UK,
42:42Salford,
42:42M50 2LH.
42:45Please include
42:46your phone number
42:46if you can
42:47and don't send us
42:48any original documents
42:50as we won't be able
42:51to return them.
42:54Well,
42:55that's almost all
42:56from us for today.
42:57But if you've missed
42:57any of it,
42:58from how to find
42:59a tradesperson
43:00you can trust
43:00to how to use AI
43:01to get the lowdown
43:03on your terms
43:03and conditions,
43:04then you can catch up
43:05on today's programme
43:06and many more
43:07on BBC iPlayer.
43:09Or you can check out
43:10our website
43:11for plenty more advice
43:12as well,
43:13bbc.co.uk
43:14slash ripoffbritain.
43:16I think you know
43:16by now how much
43:17we appreciate your company
43:18with us here
43:19in Ripoff Britain.
43:20But from all of us
43:21on the team,
43:21enjoy the rest of your day
43:23and from us,
43:24bye-bye.
43:24Goodbye.
43:25Bye.
43:25Bye.
43:26Bye.
43:28Bye.
43:29Bye.
43:30Bye.
43:33Bye.
43:34Bye.
43:35Bye.
43:35Bye.
43:35Bye.
43:36Bye.
43:38Bye.
43:40Bye.
43:42Bye.
43:48Bye.
43:52Bye.
43:53You
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