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Rip off Britain - Season 18 Episode 1 -
Home improvement company lies cost me thousands
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Home improvement company lies cost me thousands
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#film#shows#usa#usashows#hot#filmhot
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00:00Today, the 95-year-old who's still shaken after her brush with the home improvement company that took her money
00:07and never returned.
00:08It was heart-wrenching and horrific to hear that my 95-year-old mother had been put into a van
00:17and taken to the bank to withdraw £1,800.
00:21Plus, never-ending terms and conditions.
00:24With one holiday company's T's and C's running to more than 13,000 words, we reveal how AI can help
00:31you navigate the unnavigable.
00:34Always looking out for you. This is Ripoff Britain.
00:45Hello and welcome to Ripoff Britain and our HQ in Salford.
00:49Now, this is a team that always has your back when you think that you've been treated unfairly and just
00:55can't get any resolution.
00:57Including today, the holiday cover that stood next to no chance of paying out.
01:01When Beverly from Lincoln came to her advice clinic, she'd been refused the payout because the snow and ice that
01:07forced her to cancel her trip weren't extreme enough for the insurer.
01:11She said, you're not covered. You could make a claim, but she said it will be rejected.
01:18Also today, the disabled driver chased by debt collectors for a parking charge that should never have been issued.
01:25And how can you find a tradesperson you can trust?
01:29We've put together a handy how-to guide to help you avoid the likes of the firm at the heart
01:34of our first film today.
01:35That's absolutely right, because when 95-year-old Edna from Manchester picked up the phone to a cold caller last
01:43March,
01:43it was the caller's opening salvo that drew her in.
01:47Now, she says they claim to be associated with Age UK, after which any scepticism Edna might have had disappeared.
01:55However, that was a lie, which, as we're about to find out, had the most serious consequences.
02:10PHONE RINGS
02:14Hello?
02:15In March 2025, retired cafe owner Edna Jones from Farnworth in Greater Manchester received a call out of the blue.
02:24I got this phone call, and it just said about Age UK, and did I want any maintenance doing?
02:31It's awesome.
02:32I could do with a gardener.
02:34Edna normally gives cold callers the cold shoulder.
02:38I'd put the phone down, really, which I normally do if I've got a funny phone call.
02:42But, she says, the mention of Age UK kept her on the phone, especially because of her direct connection with
02:50the charity.
02:50I go to Age UK every week, dancing. There'd been a volunteer there, and I just thought, well, if it's
02:58Age UK, it'll be all above board, like, you know.
03:01If the answer said Age UK in the beginning, I wouldn't have been interested, really.
03:07Edna says the caller told her they could put her in touch with a local company called Primestone Homes,
03:13not to be confused with companies of a similar name, which would be able to complete the garden maintenance work
03:18that she was after.
03:19And, after a second call, Edna says she agreed for the firm to carry out a survey the following Saturday.
03:26At first, all went as she expected.
03:28This couple came, and he went round the garden, telling what everything wanted doing, and she were writing it all
03:35down on a paper, like, you know.
03:37After around an hour, Edna says the pair came inside and gave her a quote.
03:42The price was a hefty £3,750, but that would include clearing overgrown trees and bushes, repairing a fence, replacing
03:53decking, and two maintenance visits a year.
03:56Compared with what I'd paid other things in the garden, I think it seemed pretty reasonable.
04:02So I was quite happy about it.
04:07Edna says she was told the company would need half the money there and then.
04:12I said, well, I haven't got that sort of money here, like, you know, I have to go to the
04:16bank.
04:17So then they said, well, we'll take you in the van.
04:22I thought, well, it'll save me a journey another time.
04:25And with them saying, like, they would officially come from Age UK, I was just happy about everything.
04:35But the bank was closed.
04:37So, back at home, Edna agreed to pay the £1,875 by cheque instead.
04:46The couple left, telling Edna they'd be back the following Wednesday and someone would be in touch to confirm the
04:52details.
04:55Edna mentioned all this to her daughter, Karen, when they spoke the following day.
05:00But by Wednesday morning, she says there'd be no further contact.
05:04Mum had phoned me quite agitated that they hadn't called her on the Monday or turned up on the Wednesday
05:10like they'd promised.
05:12So Karen picked up the baton on her mum's behalf.
05:15She called Primestone and was told the company had tried to call Edna on both Monday and Tuesday.
05:21But Karen was sceptical.
05:23She had been in all day on the Tuesday and no messages had been left on her answering machine.
05:28So they hadn't tried to contact her.
05:30Primestone promised to attend in eight days' time, saying it was fully booked until then.
05:35But after speaking to the company, Karen was starting to have serious doubts about its credentials.
05:42Just with their mannerism, with their tone of voice, they came across quite unprofessional.
05:49And when I did come off the phone, I thought, hmm, I'm going to just take a look at this
05:53company, read the reviews, try and dig a little bit deeper into them.
05:58Karen found a litany of negative reviews, some of which made serious allegations about the company's conduct.
06:06At this stage, alarm bells were massively ringing in my head that obviously something was desperately wrong and that measures
06:14needed to be taken.
06:16I began to think that the people who had come to visit and who I was speaking to that morning
06:21were unconnected to Age UK.
06:24Karen called the charity's Bolton branch and it bore out her misgivings.
06:29Age UK Bolton does not recommend or endorse individual contractors or firms and we have not authorised anyone to make
06:37contact on our behalf for this type of service.
06:43Obviously, then, that confirmed to me my worst fears, that mum had been duped.
06:49Karen reported what had happened to the police and action fraud and in desperation, she alerted Edna's bank in the
06:57hope that the cheque written six days earlier could be cancelled.
07:00With Edna at her side to recount what happened, it was only then that Karen discovered that Edna had been
07:07taken in a van in an attempt to withdraw the cash.
07:10I was hearing it for the first time as I'm relaying it to the fraud team and it was taking
07:17all my effort not to cry
07:22because it was heart-wrenching and horrific to hear that my 95-year-old mother had been put into a
07:31van and taken to the bank to withdraw £1,800.
07:36It was too late. The bank told Karen the cheque had already cleared. Karen called Primestone to demand a refund,
07:43but after initially promising Edna would get her money back, the company backtracked, blaming financial difficulties.
07:51It left me feeling very frustrated, very let down, very sad for mum because the longer this went on, the
08:00more apparent it was that we were never going to get this deposit refund back for her.
08:06The whole experience has taken an emotional toll on the family.
08:11It's a lot of money to lose and I've worked all my life and I've never had much, so it
08:17just, it hurt really.
08:20I'm sorry. Don't be sorry, mum. None of this is your fault. None of this is your fault, none of
08:26it.
08:26Well, it is in a way because I trusted them, didn't I? Probably that's my trouble.
08:36We'll not let them beat us, mum. We'll not let them beat us.
08:47Well, what an incredibly upsetting story and I'm very pleased to say that Edna and Karen are here with us
08:54in HQ along with solicitor Denise Nurse and our producer Dave Quinn.
08:59And Edna, we could see from the film that this has had a huge impact on you and I'm just
09:05wondering how you are now.
09:07Well, I'm getting over it a bit now, like, you know, but I still feel cheated. I'm frightened of answering
09:14the phone in case something like that happens again.
09:16I can well understand that. Karen, have you managed to get any further with getting the money back?
09:23No, to this date and it's been almost 12 months now and we've not received any money back.
09:29Well, let's hope that between them, Denise and Dave can give you some information that might help.
09:34And Dave, I know you've been looking into Primestone Homes. What have you found?
09:38Well, the first thing we can say about Primestone Homes is it's no longer trading, but we do know that
09:43Companies House have been having a look into their activities.
09:46So Companies House went through a process of looking to strike them off their register completely.
09:52But actually, just shortly after that, they decided to suspend it and that process is on hold at the moment.
09:57One other thing we can say is that Primestone Homes haven't filed their accounts in time.
10:01So that's another reason why it's a sort of a red flag for some of the activity that this company
10:06has been going through.
10:07And Denise, can you perhaps enlarge on that from the legal point of view and explain what that means for
10:12Edna's chances of getting her money back?
10:15Yes, absolutely. The company is like a legal entity in itself.
10:20And if it gets struck off the register, it would no longer exist.
10:25The good news, I think, from this is that that's been suspended.
10:28So right now it does exist.
10:31And that means you could put a claim in through the Small Claims Court to recover your money.
10:35Unfortunately, I have to say this situation looks like a company that's been in a bit of trouble.
10:41So the possibility that there's any money there to recover, we don't know.
10:45But you have that right. You've paid money.
10:47You can ask for that back now because there's been a breach of contract.
10:51But wouldn't that cost me more than what they actually owe Mum in the first place to be able to
10:55do that, to take them to Small Claims?
10:57Well, not necessarily. Actually, the court fees can be quite low and it's set up as a system that you
11:02can do this yourself and put all the information and evidence in.
11:06You can use the details that you've got on Companies House, the address that's listed there, put in the details
11:11online and do it online.
11:13It's a money claim online.
11:14Oh, right. OK, that's helpful. Thank you.
11:17Taking the case to the Small Claims Court would cost Karen and Edna £115.
11:22If successful, that would land the company with a CCJ, a county court judgment, which could be enforced by bailiffs
11:30if it went unpaid.
11:31And Denise says a CCJ would be useful even if Primestone Homes went into administration
11:36because it would add weight of evidence to any case they register with authorities which might be investigating the firm,
11:43such as trading standards.
11:44Dave, what else have you learned about this company?
11:48Well, this company's based in Bradford originally.
11:50So we spoke to Trading Standards in West Yorkshire.
11:54They confirmed that they have actually taken action on two cases in particular.
11:59We don't know the details of that, but we know that those have been investigated and they've took action against
12:03them.
12:04So, Edna, you're not alone.
12:06This company has been doing things to other people as well.
12:10How does that make you feel?
12:11I hope they've not gone through what I've gone through because it's very disheartening.
12:16Well, it's very generous-spirited of you to say you're upset for them.
12:20And Dave, I mean, this so-called link to Age UK, there isn't one, is there?
12:25Well, Age UK told us that it doesn't work with Primestone Homes at all on any level.
12:30And it also said, Edna, it was really sorry to hear what had happened to you.
12:34And I think the general advice would be, if you are told by a company that contacts you that they
12:39work with a charity,
12:40it's worth definitely finding the number for that charity yourself, phoning them up and saying, is this true or not?
12:46And just being on your guard, really.
12:48Well, Edna, you're certainly not alone in being convinced by people who are not telling the truth.
12:53And Denise, pressure selling doesn't always feel aggressive, does it?
12:57The thing here is they are very clever and they took a lot of time to spend time with you,
13:02didn't they?
13:03In your home, looking at your garden and convincing you that they were friendly, convincing you that they worked with
13:10Age UK, who you believe in, who you trust.
13:12And so pressure selling can look like that sometimes.
13:15Picking on the things that you already trust, that you already believe in, and then doubling down on that.
13:21If someone is watching this and they might feel that they are in the same position that you were in,
13:27what would your advice be?
13:28Just double check everything.
13:30It doesn't take two minutes just to pick up the telephone.
13:34Double check the details that somebody's given you, or even to go online and just Google the company name, the
13:42director's name.
13:43Are they actually real people with a real business?
13:46Just ask questions before you actually hand over any money.
13:51But the last thing Edna expected when all this started was to have to do homework on people who'd won
13:58her trust.
13:59I've learnt from it, like, you know, just hope everybody, you don't have to go through what I've gone through,
14:06and just take care when you do answer the phone, you know.
14:10You're so brave to come in, actually, today and talk about this in public, and we really, really appreciate it.
14:18Thank you both very much indeed, and thank you, Denise, for all that wonderful advice, and thanks for all the
14:22digging you did, Dave, too.
15:24This is Harry Kind's how-to guide.
15:29Dreaming of a brand new kitchen extension, but having trouble thinking over the burst pipe in your bathroom?
15:36I'm Harry Kind, the everyday expert, and this is my guide on how to find a great tradesperson to help
15:42you out.
15:44Step one, where to look.
15:48The builder, majestic in their natural habitat of the calf.
15:52No, sorry, that's not right.
15:54In the 21st century, most people looking for a top-notch modern tradesperson will start online.
16:00Searching through trade review websites is a great place to start, but take their ratings with a pinch of salt
16:06and always use multiple websites.
16:08Word of mouth is a powerful tool.
16:10Check online forums, Facebook groups, local neighborhood WhatsApps, but make sure that you do your due diligence.
16:19Be wary of any pages that have started in just the last couple of months.
16:22And if only one or two people are giving very positive comments on pages, it might just be their friends
16:29and family.
16:30Take the time now to fill your phone with great contractors.
16:34The last time you want to be searching for an emergency Sparky is at 2am on a Saturday night.
16:43When it comes to cold callers, be very, very wary.
16:47As we all know, there's a massive shortage of qualified and experienced contractors out there,
16:52and so they're batting away jobs with a four-foot level.
16:54If they come cold calling, they're probably not the best in the business.
16:58Sorry.
17:00Step two, what to ask.
17:03Once you've found some candidates, it's question time.
17:05It can feel a bit un-British, but now is the time to be demanding, not later.
17:10Here's some questions that you might want to ask.
17:14How long have you been trading?
17:16Can I talk to some former clients?
17:18What qualifications do you have?
17:21What kind of insurance do you have?
17:23Are you part of a trade association?
17:25Do you need me to pay anything up front?
17:27Can you provide a building regulations compliance certificate?
17:31And if you think that's a lot of questions, you've got to ask those three times because you need to
17:36get at least three quotes.
17:38Make sure those quotes break down labour, materials, and VAT.
17:43Step three, get building.
17:45You've found the perfect trader, but before the shovels hit the ground, make sure you follow these steps.
17:52If it's a big job, make sure to get a full contract that lays out exactly what to expect and
17:58when.
17:59Templates can be found online.
18:00Even on smaller jobs, it pays to communicate as much in writing as possible.
18:05It might be something that you rely on later to resolve disputes.
18:09The only up front payment you should make is for materials.
18:12And even then, many contractors have credit accounts with their suppliers.
18:17And if possible, pay by card.
18:20That gives you that powerful Section 75 protection via credit card and charge back with debit cards if something does
18:26go wrong.
18:27It may seem a bit out of place to have a card reader on a building site,
18:30but if you go into any builder's merchants, you're constantly being sold portable card readers.
18:35So it's never been easier for a builder to take your money.
18:38Now the most important job.
18:40Get the kettle on.
18:42Milking six shutters, please.
18:48And now it's time to tackle more of your problems in the Advice Clinic.
18:54The Advice Clinic is on the road, bringing the best consumer advice...
18:58I really think they've got it wrong here.
19:00I think that's a very questionable claim.
19:02...to you.
19:07It's raining today here in Mansfield, but a couple of weeks ago it was even worse.
19:11There was snow and ice which forced rip-off Britain viewer Beverley to have to cancel her holiday.
19:17Despite having insurance for exactly that, she had to pay out.
19:21That's Beverley Ballag from Lincolnshire.
19:24And she knows a thing or two about travel.
19:27Because I was born in Southampton and I saw the ships come in and out when I was a child.
19:33That's what took me to cruising.
19:37But the holiday Beverley needs our help with in January 2026 was much closer to home.
19:44In fact, it's just half an hour's drive from her house.
19:47I was going to Thursby Hall Hotel, which I've visited often in the last three years.
19:55I love it there.
19:57It was more than a hotel.
19:59My friends even called it my second home.
20:02It's part of the Warner Hotels Group, and the four-night break set 85-year-old Beverley back £369,
20:10with £30 on top for Warner's own holiday protection plan.
20:15It offers peace of mind if something doesn't go to plan, including illness and adverse weather.
20:21And on the day of Beverley's trip, she would certainly describe the weather as adverse.
20:27I woke up, looked out of the window, and there was about four or five centimetres of snow on the
20:37ground.
20:38BBC Radio, Lincolnshire.
20:40Another news, there's a yellow weather warning in place for snow and ice in Lincolnshire.
20:45Police say they've had 30 reports of crashes since midnight.
20:49And I was really upset, because at my age, I'm disabled.
20:55I just knew I would not be able to travel.
20:59The weather forecast was saying, don't risk unnecessary journeys.
21:04And the highway code said, if it's snowy and icy, then you shouldn't make any unnecessary journeys.
21:13Beverley's post-Christmas break was off, so she got on the phone, first to the hotel, then to Warner's customer
21:19service line.
21:20Nobody was picking up the phone.
21:22And that's when I thought, email them, tell them, but all to no avail that day.
21:28In fact, it wasn't until lunchtime the following day that someone called her back.
21:33On that call, Beverley explained she wanted a claim under the protection plan, which, as far as she understood, covered
21:40her for adverse weather.
21:42But the Warner agent wasn't so sure.
21:45She said, you're not covered because there was no red alert for my area.
21:54You could make a claim, she said, or fill out a claims form online, but she said it will be
22:02rejected.
22:03The policy would only have paid out if the Met Office had issued a red weather warning for the area.
22:10And it hadn't.
22:11So loyal customer Beverley was left £400 out of pocket.
22:18Determined not to take that lying down, she's on her way to Mansfield Central Library and our advice clinic.
22:24Hello, Beverley.
22:26Hello, are you?
22:27Are you all right?
22:28Armed with proof of just how bad the weather really was, for personal finance expert Amy Knight to pour over.
22:35Heavy snow spreading inland, causing disruption on roads.
22:38I mean, it was snow and ice, wasn't it?
22:41It was icy.
22:42I have a double hip replacement.
22:44I daren't walk on snowy or icy grounds, and I definitely would not actually drive in those conditions.
22:53Amy believes there's little wonder Beverley thought Warner's holiday protection plan would cover her.
22:58This is the Warner holiday protection, and it includes adverse weather conditions such as storms and blizzards.
23:05It doesn't say anywhere in that box that other terms and conditions apply.
23:10No.
23:11You have to really go hunting.
23:14After much searching, Amy found the clause that's scuppering Beverley's claim.
23:19OK, so it says,
23:20The adverse weather condition cover is only applicable on the day of travel and if your journey will be affected
23:26by a red weather warning.
23:27I mean, it's a tiny word, red.
23:28And it's absolutely buried.
23:30My goodness me.
23:31But Met Office's red weather warnings are super rare.
23:35So rare, in fact, that only seven were issued between November 2021 and the end of 2025 across the whole
23:43of the UK.
23:44All of which makes the chances of a payout under this clause of the policy rather slim.
23:51I mean, the terms and conditions may be the terms and conditions, but it doesn't feel right, does it?
23:56No, it's not customer friendly at all.
23:57And I feel very strongly about it because I have been such a good...
24:03And there'll be other people who are equally loyal customers.
24:06Equally, yes.
24:07It's Beverley's loyalty that Amy believes should beat the T's and C's on this occasion.
24:1324 times I've been to Warners.
24:16And you'd like to continue using them in the future?
24:18Yes, I would.
24:18So I think that's the message we need to get across to the customer service team and appeal to them
24:25as reasonable human beings that this is a customer who has some health conditions and we really want her to
24:33keep coming back.
24:34But when we readied ourselves to put that case to Warner, we hit much the same obstacle that Beverley came
24:40up against when she tried to get in touch.
24:42There was no one there.
24:44The customer care team will be available Monday to Friday from 9am until 1pm.
24:50But Amy's got a plan.
24:52We need to get the former complaint in progress because if we want to escalate it any further, we need
25:01to have followed the proper channels in the first instance.
25:03So you need to basically gather as much hard evidence as possible, which you've done a really thorough job of,
25:10by the way.
25:10So all of that combined with the fact that you're a loyal customer, hopefully will be enough for them to
25:18consider a gesture of goodwill, if not a full reimbursement of what you've spent.
25:24What would make you happy?
25:26Quite honestly, an apology would even be nice.
25:30Yeah.
25:30And do you know what? Apologies don't cost money.
25:32No, they don't.
25:34So Beverley headed home, armed with Amy's plan for a formal complaint.
25:38But Warner stuck to its original decision.
25:41However, our team was also talking to the company.
25:45Time for me to catch up with Beverley.
25:48Hi, Beverley. How are you doing?
25:50I'm doing OK, thank you.
25:51I understand that someone has reached out to you.
25:54What have they said?
25:55It was the sales and customer service manager, and she said that they were going to give me a free
26:04holiday.
26:05Wow. How do you feel about that?
26:06Well, I actually was gobsmacked, to be quite honest, because it seemed to have been a lot of hard work
26:14getting them to actually realise, you know, that an 80, oh no, I'm 86 now, I nearly said 85.
26:23An 86-year-old pensioner needed some consideration.
26:28Well, I just want to say, well done.
26:32Warner told us it was sorry Beverley was disappointed, and it understood her concerns about travelling in winter conditions.
26:39It maintained that its decision was in line with the terms of its protection policy, but said it has listened
26:45to her feedback and updated its website to ensure it's easy for guests to understand.
26:52It means, Beverley, you seem to hopefully have got a free holiday, and your complaint very well might help other
26:59people avoiding similar situations.
27:01I'm pleased that, you know, that their terms and conditions have made it clearer, because I'm sure there's a lot
27:10of people that could be under the same sort of situation that I was.
27:15I think you've done really good work. Are you proud of yourself? You should be.
27:19I'm going to pat myself on the back.
27:22I'd do it for you, but you've done a really good job. Take care, Beverley.
27:26Thank you very much, Louise.
27:28Well done, Beverley, and I love the fact that she actually gave herself a pat on the back.
27:32Now, if you've got a problem and you think that we can help, then do let us know about it,
27:37and maybe the Advice Clinic could be heading to your neck of the woods very soon.
27:41Our email address is ripoffbritton at bbc.co.uk, and I tell you, we have got plenty of other ways
27:47to get in touch, which, of course, we'll tell you about later on.
27:50Now, solicitor Denise Nurse is back, and we're also joined by consumer rights expert Martin James to answer your questions.
27:57And Martin, one for you first, from Saz Skinner in Devon.
28:01Saz says her daughter moved out of her shared house recently, but the landlord has failed to return her deposit
28:08and has sent her a bill for £4,000 to cover damage he claims Saz's daughter caused, but which she
28:15says she definitely didn't.
28:17What can she do?
28:18Well, this is really, really unfair, but the good news is the laws and regulations are on Saz's daughter's side.
28:26When you are renting an apartment, that money that you pay as part of your deposit goes into what's known
28:31as a deposit protection scheme, and that means that when you come to leave,
28:35you can go to a deposit protection scheme if there's a dispute with a landlord about any damages that might
28:41be outstanding.
28:42If you're not sure if you're being treated fairly, free sites like Shelter have advice, and you can find out
28:48more about your rights.
28:49So go to the deposit protection scheme and don't give up on this one.
28:53That's a crazy amount of money.
28:55Denise, the next one is from Dave Seriani from Accrington, who sent us this little message.
29:00I received a parking ticket for being nine minutes over the two-hour limit.
29:06I have spinal injuries, and I do have a blue badge, which I put on the dashboard.
29:11After I received the first ticket for £60, I went to the store manager, and he advised me not to
29:17pay it.
29:18It then went to $100, and then to $170 with a debt collector.
29:23The ticket was cancelled the day before I paid it, but the collection agency doesn't want to know, and I
29:31would really like to get my money back.
29:33So she paid the debt collection agency even though she'd appealed and had her ticket cancelled.
29:37So can she get that other money back?
29:40Well, the ticket was cancelled, which means there's no debt owed because there was no ticket.
29:45So she should be able to get her money back.
29:47She needs to put this in writing, I don't know if she has already, to the debt collection agency to
29:52say,
29:52ticket was cancelled, show that evidence to them so that nothing was due and that she's paid in error.
29:58Also go back to the parking company, because they're the ones who would have passed the debt on to the
30:03debt agency.
30:04So take the complaint to them.
30:06And if all else fails, Dave can also contact the British Parking Association or the International Parking Community.
30:13Thank you both for your advice.
30:15Very useful.
30:16Now, it's impossible to count the number of times that we hear from people who feel hugely let down by
30:21one company or another,
30:22only to be told, well, it's in the terms and conditions.
30:25But of course, we all know that some T's and C's can seem never-ending and impossible to read.
30:32Well, shortly I'm going to be learning a new trick that could put the power back in all our hands,
30:37using the power of AI.
30:39So I'm looking forward to that a lot.
30:41But first, here's a reminder of the last time we investigated the astonishing length of some of those terms and
30:48conditions.
30:538-year-old Cockapoo Chester was the star of the show when owner Debbie Carter from Gravesend first showed him
31:00off to us back in 2023.
31:02Chester means the world to us, like another child, really, in the family.
31:06It's great company.
31:08It just means everything, really.
31:10We heard how Debbie was paying £39 a month to the insurer, Pep Protect, to cover Chester if anything unexpected
31:17should happen.
31:18So when he suffered an injury that would cost £5,000 in vet bills...
31:23They said it was crucial ligament damage and that it would require a big operation.
31:28Debbie was sure they'd be protected.
31:30It covered us for a £6,000 accident and illness.
31:34I just thought, thank goodness, we're covered.
31:38Thankfully, Chester made a full recovery.
31:41Come on, up, up.
31:44But when it came to paying the vet's bills, I'm afraid things were not as simple.
31:50Rather than cover the full amount, Pep Protect only paid out £750,
31:55leaving Debbie to foot the remaining £4,000 bill.
31:59Pep Protect said that we were only covered up to £750 for crucial ligament damage.
32:04Which we were absolutely shocked by.
32:08Debbie immediately turned to Pep Protect's terms and conditions,
32:12certain that she would have noticed such a clause when she took out the policy.
32:1631 pages later, she couldn't find any reference to the cruciate ligament clause.
32:23It was only when she checked a second policy booklet from the following year,
32:27she realised that Chester wasn't fully covered after all.
32:32I don't think it's fair that you should have to trawl through this whole booklet
32:36to find out what has changed, what's not been changed.
32:41I feel like I was responsible by not reading it,
32:44but I just don't think they made it clear.
32:48Now, when we spoke to Pep Protect, it soon became clear what exactly had gone on.
32:53The cruciate ligament clause was introduced in 2016,
32:57a year after Debbie first took out Chester's policy.
33:01Pep Protect told us that the clause and limitations were set out in its terms and conditions
33:06and its renewal paperwork from then onward.
33:10But Debbie says that with most of those documents only being available digitally,
33:14she didn't always read them,
33:16relying instead on the hard copies she'd kept from the first two years of the policy.
33:21Pep Protect has told us that all insurance policies contain certain limitations and exemptions,
33:27which are essential in calculating the correct premium that a customer should pay.
33:32And it added that these are all explained to customers in a number of separate documents
33:36and on its website.
33:39For this experience, I've learned that I need to read all the T's and C's,
33:44which we didn't really do.
33:49But it's not just insurance policies that can have very lengthy terms and conditions.
33:54They are everywhere.
33:55And when we told Debbie's story,
33:58producer Katie Saatchi also explored the wordy world of holiday companies' terms and conditions,
34:03working out how long it would take to read the terms of six leading holiday companies
34:09based on an average reading speed of three words a second.
34:13Now, the shortest were TUI and Hayes Travel.
34:16So, for TUI, it would take you 18 minutes to read.
34:20It's just over 3,000 words.
34:22For Hayes Travel, 19 minutes, again, just under 3,500 words.
34:26EasyJet's clocked in at 47 minutes.
34:29Jet2 holidays would take one hour and six minutes.
34:33And on the beach, an hour and 11 minutes.
34:36The longest of the six was Ho Seasons.
34:40So, I worked out that if I was going to take a, you know,
34:43a nice weekend mini-break maybe to Conway in North Wales,
34:46that's about an hour and a half's drive from here in Salford,
34:50it would take me that entire journey to read those booking conditions.
34:53Every single word.
34:54Yes, which are nearly 16,500 words.
34:57That's five times longer than TUI's.
35:00At the time, Ho Seasons declined to comment,
35:03while on the beach told us it would be separating its terms and conditions
35:08into two separate documents,
35:10one for package holidays and one for other kinds of break,
35:14meaning customers would need to read through much less.
35:18But, fast forward a few years,
35:20and it seems there's now a way to shortcut those lengthy T's and C's using AI.
35:26And tech expert David McClelland is joining me in HQ to reveal all.
35:31First, though, Kate is back,
35:32and she's been checking up on whether those holiday companies
35:35have made their terms any less laborious.
35:41So, what have you discovered so far?
35:43Well, there was very little movement at the lower end of the leaderboard,
35:46so TUI had a small decrease.
35:48Their terms and conditions are now about 100 words shorter.
35:51That brings the reading time to 17 minutes, we calculated.
35:55Hayes Travel has added about 40 words,
35:58taking the time to about 20 minutes.
36:01Meanwhile, EasyJet has added about 500 words,
36:05and Jet2 Holidays has added 1,500 words,
36:10roughly an extra eight minutes.
36:12On the Beach stuck to its promise in 2023
36:14to separate its terms and conditions,
36:17which has taken the reading time down
36:19from one hour 11 minutes to around 32 minutes.
36:23So, as a reminder, the original T's and C's from them
36:27were just under 13,000 words.
36:29They have now got a separate set of package holiday terms
36:33and conditions, only around 3,000 words,
36:35but they've also now introduced a handbook,
36:38which is a similar length.
36:40They've also changed their approach
36:42with the rest of their terms and conditions.
36:44So, instead of a single set of T's and C's
36:47for other booking types,
36:48they've got specific terms for hotel-only bookings
36:51and for cruise bookings.
36:53So, that keeps the word count down for those customers as well.
36:56And what about host seasons?
36:57Yes.
36:57So, last time they topped the list,
37:00it was about 16,500 words long,
37:03so about an hour and a half.
37:05But they've now split up their terms and conditions too.
37:08They've separated them into the following booking types,
37:12lodges and parks, cottages and boating holidays.
37:16And how's that working out?
37:17Well, the word count for each of those
37:18is roughly around the 5,000 to 6,000 mark,
37:22so around about half an hour each.
37:24So, a huge improvement on an hour and a half,
37:27you know, all in one long document.
37:29So, even though they didn't get back to us last time,
37:32it does feel like they might have listened.
37:35We picked this up with the two companies
37:37whose T's and C's have grown in length.
37:40EasyJet told us its booking conditions are regularly reviewed
37:44to ensure they remain clear, transparent and easy to understand.
37:49Adding that it has introduced a new quick glance section
37:52to highlight key points along with clearer wording in some areas.
37:56EasyJet said that booking conditions are an important part of any holiday,
38:00so it has made sure that everything is brought together in one place
38:04rather than across multiple pages of its website.
38:07And EasyJet added that it consistently receives positive feedback
38:11on its website's ease of use.
38:14Meanwhile, Jet2 Holidays said the way it communicates with customers
38:18is integral to its customer service approach.
38:21So, as well as T's and C's we compared,
38:23it also sends out other guidance including on baggage,
38:27check-in, mobility and medical assistance
38:30and other valuable information.
38:34But even if all the firms we checked
38:37had added to their terms and conditions,
38:39David has got a way that could help you understand them
38:41without pouring over every word, by using AI.
38:46I think finding the key bits
38:49in these enormous terms and conditions documents
38:52is actually a really useful use case for AI.
38:56The first thing you need to do, of course,
38:58is to make sure that your AI app,
39:00and you can access that on your phone or your tablet
39:02or through a web browser on your computer or something,
39:05that it's got the right information.
39:06So, give your AI app the terms and conditions.
39:10You might be able to drag it and drop it or click on upload.
39:12Or, in some cases,
39:13you can just copy and paste the link from the website.
39:16Then you know that the conversation that you will have with your AI
39:20is based on the terms and conditions of that holiday company.
39:23Also, think about AI as if you're chatting to a friend
39:27who's read for an hour or more and digested this document
39:30and then have a conversation with them.
39:32Say, I want to know more about cancellation.
39:35Tell me everywhere in this terms and conditions document
39:38where it mentions last-minute cancellations
39:40and what I might be liable for, for example.
39:43So, to test this, the Ripoff Britain team
39:46went and looked at three different AI apps.
39:49So, Google, Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, and Anthropics Claude.
39:54And they asked the same question
39:56about the same terms and conditions about cancellations
40:00and got three very different, none of them incorrect,
40:04but three very different responses.
40:07We gave the three AI tools the same set of terms and conditions
40:11and asked them whether we would be entitled to a full refund
40:14if we had to cancel our accommodation within hours of booking.
40:18The correct answer was no.
40:20But while all of the AIs were able to point to details
40:23in the relevant section of the T's and C's,
40:27only Claude drew our attention to the exemption
40:29that meant we would not be entitled to a refund.
40:33So, I think the message to me is that,
40:36yes, AI apps can be helpful
40:38in understanding terms and conditions,
40:41but ultimately, the same as with security,
40:43never trust, always verify.
40:46Go back and check the actual terms and conditions yourself
40:50just to make sure that what the AI is telling you
40:53is indeed accurate.
40:54And a really good use for these AI tools
40:57might be to compare a new version of a terms and conditions
41:01with an old version of the terms and conditions.
41:03Load those documents or the links into your AI tool
41:07and just say, what's the difference between these two documents?
41:11And again, if you want to double-check for yourself,
41:13say, show me where in the document it says that,
41:17just so you can be certain that what you're seeing in your AI app
41:20is actually what's in the T's and C's.
41:23Whatever you ask an AI tool,
41:25it's worth bearing in mind that the information you provide
41:28is used to help improve the answers it gives to other users.
41:31So, it's worth thinking carefully about sharing any personal details.
41:36I'm going to go back to Katie, actually.
41:38If people are not ready yet for AI,
41:40have you got any advice for that?
41:42Yeah, if you've got a digital copy of a policy
41:46or a set of terms and conditions,
41:47either if that's on a web page
41:49or, you know, it's been sent to you by a company,
41:51if you put that into a Word document,
41:53you can just go Control-F or Command-F if you're on a Mac
41:58and you can search for a specific term that you want to read about.
42:01I've done it that way before
42:02when we want to have a look at if someone's covered for a particular thing.
42:06You see? Katie's got a lot of things.
42:08Long before AI came in.
42:10Anyway, great information as always.
42:12Thank you both very much.
42:15If you've got a problem
42:16and you think our team might be able to help,
42:19there are lots of ways you can get in touch.
42:21You can email us at ripoffbritain at bbc.co.uk
42:25or send us a WhatsApp message to 033-0678-1321.
42:32We're also on Facebook.
42:34Just search for BBC Ripoff Britain.
42:37Or write us a letter.
42:38The address is Ripoff Britain, BBC Media City UK,
42:42Salford, M50 2LH.
42:45Please include your phone number if you can
42:47and don't send us any original documents
42:50as we won't be able to return them.
42:54Well, that's almost all from us for today.
42:57But if you've missed any of it,
42:58from how to find a tradesperson you can trust
43:00to how to use AI to get the lowdown on your terms and conditions,
43:04then you can catch up on today's programme
43:06and many more on BBC iPlayer.
43:09Or you can check out our website for plenty more advice as well,
43:13bbc.co.uk slash ripoffbritain.
43:16I think you know by now how much we appreciate your company
43:18with us here in Ripoff Britain.
43:20But from all of us on the team,
43:21enjoy the rest of your day.
43:23And from us, bye-bye.
43:24Goodbye.
43:25Bye.
43:25Bye.
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