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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 07
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00:00It's time for The Last Word with the great Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
00:04Good evening, Rachel. We have both senators from Arizona tonight, Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego.
00:10And as you know, Senator Kelly striking back at Pete Hegseth today, filing a lawsuit against
00:15Hegseth today, making Hegseth a defendant now on their issue. And Senator Elizabeth Warren's
00:21going to join us. And she was already going to join us. We already had that arranged before
00:27she got her very first phone call ever today from guess who?
00:35Oh, is it bad or is it good?
00:37You tell me. Donald Trump.
00:45Well, yes, ma'am. That's quite a baby you have there.
00:49Yes.
00:52Wow. I'm looking forward to your show tonight. This is like a Senate Palooza tonight, Lawrence.
00:57What was that phone call about? We're going to find out when Senator Warren joins us. She
01:01went out there and did a speech attacking Donald Trump, of course. And then the phone rings
01:10and it's Donald Trump wanting to chat about who knows who knows what. We'll find out.
01:17I want I want to hear it. Say goodnight to me. I want to hear. Get on with that.
01:21OK, goodnight.
01:21Good night, Rachel.
01:22Good luck. Good night.
01:25The Wall Street Journal is calling it lawfare for dummies. That's the Wall Street Journal
01:31editorial board's assessment of Donald Trump's use of a criminal investigation by the Trump
01:35Justice Department of the chairman of the Federal Reserve. Over the weekend, Jerome Powell
01:40became the first Fed chair in history to have to publicly expand explain that the president
01:46is insane. He did that in the form of a video announcing that the Trump Justice Department
01:52has issued investigative subpoenas to him because he has not agreed with Donald Trump's assessment
01:58of exactly where interest rates should be during the Trump presidency.
02:03Senator Elizabeth Warren described this absurd attack on the Federal Reserve and Jerome Powell
02:09today in an important speech that she delivered off campus from the United States Senate at the
02:15National Press Club in Washington, D.C. And after that speech, Donald Trump suddenly from
02:21out of nowhere called Senator Warren. Senator Warren will tell us about that phone call when
02:28she joins us during this hour. And in another case of lawfare for dummies, Harvard University
02:33taught Donald Trump and his Justice Department many lessons when Harvard went to court to block
02:38Donald Trump's attempt to not just cut research funding at Harvard University, but to completely
02:44take over the university. Donald Trump, who now calls himself the acting president of Venezuela in a
02:50flight of derangement, was trying to become the president of Harvard, which is older than both
02:56Venezuela and the United States of America. While other universities like Columbia disgraced
03:01themselves forever by allowing Donald Trump to seize some control of those universities, Harvard fought back
03:07and won in every way, including foreign students. Donald Trump set out to ban foreign students from
03:15entering the country bound for Harvard University this year. And not only did Harvard beat Donald Trump
03:21in court on that one, but Harvard's enrollment of foreign students has hit a new record high,
03:276,749 students, 28% of the student body. And what did Donald Trump achieve in the rest of the
03:35country
03:35in his attempt to block foreign students? A 1% decline nationally in foreign student enrollment
03:45in all of American universities. And so, despite communicating worldwide, his intense personal
03:56hatred of foreign students in America, Donald Trump failed to scare them away. And Harvard University
04:03crushed Donald Trump. We begin tonight with another case of lawfare for dummies. And in this case,
04:11the dummies are Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth. Former Navy combat pilot and astronaut, now Senator Mark
04:18Kelly, joined a video in November with other military veterans who are now members of Congress in which
04:24Senator Kelly addressed himself to the American military saying, quote,
04:27Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. Senator Kelly was the only member of that group
04:36who is in an ongoing relationship with the Navy in the form of a pension earned after 25 years of
04:43service. It takes 20 years to earn a military pension. Pete Hegseth decided that Senator Kelly's
04:49pension was a chain that he, Pete Hegseth, could yank to harm the senator by changing Senator Kelly's
04:58retirement grade. That would lower Senator Kelly's retirement grade to something lower than captain,
05:05and then that would lower his pension. And so, Pete Hegseth set out to shame and fine Mark Kelly
05:13for saying something that Pete Hegseth himself had said, that members of the military should not
05:19follow unlawful orders. Senator Kelly has insisted on this program and elsewhere that he will not be
05:26intimidated by Pete Hegseth. And today, Senator Kelly put Pete Hegseth on the defensive by literally
05:34making him a defendant in the case of Kelly versus Hegseth, filed in federal court in Washington,
05:42D.C., asking a federal judge to stop Pete Hegseth. Senator Kelly's lawsuit says the process that the
05:48Secretary of Defense has directed for reconsidering Senator Kelly's retirement grade violates due
05:53process. The Constitution does not permit the government to announce the verdict in advance
05:59and then subject Senator Kelly or anyone else to a nominal process designed only to fulfill it.
06:05Nor does the statute cited by Secretary Hegseth provide any basis to conduct such a proceeding.
06:14Defendants invoking 10 United States Code Section 1370, which governs the grade at which an officer
06:21is retired based on whether the officer served on active duty satisfactorily. Senator Kelly's active
06:29duty is over. He retired honorably as a captain with a remarkable record of awards and commendations,
06:34and his retirement grade and the pension to which he is therefore entitled became final by operation
06:42of law at the time of his retirement more than 14 years ago. Nothing in the statute authorizes
06:50the Department of Defense to reopen that determination based on post-retirement political speech. And if it
06:58did, it would raise serious constitutional concerns and subject all of the nation's retired veterans
07:04to an ever-present threat against their retirement. Senator Kelly respectfully asks this court to declare the
07:11censure letter, reopening determination, retirement grade determination proceedings, and related actions
07:17unlawful and unconstitutional, to vacate those actions, to enjoin their enforcement, and to preserve the
07:25status of a co-equal Congress and an apolitical military. Senator Kelly's 46-page lawsuit complaint
07:34filed today quotes the video in which Senator Kelly said, quote, our laws are clear. You can refuse
07:41illegal orders. Senator Kelly's lawsuit said that that statement is simply a plain statement of law.
07:48On page 17 of Senator Kelly's lawsuit, it says,
07:51Secretary Hegseth himself has previously embraced this core principle in a 2016 speech. Hegseth
07:57made clear that if you're doing something that is just completely unlawful and ruthless,
08:04then there is a consequence for that. That's why the military said it won't follow unlawful orders
08:09from their commander-in-chief. There's a belief that we are above what so many things that our enemies
08:17or others would do. Before her appointment to Attorney General, Pamela Bondi also endorsed this
08:23principle. In March 2024, she wrote a section in a court filing titled, Military Officers Are Required
08:29Not to Carry Out Unlawful Orders. Secretary Hegseth's and Attorney General Bondi's statements of military
08:36law were correct. This bedrock tenet of military law that service members are required not to follow
08:42illegal orders is also among the first things taught to every service member at the inception
08:48of their service. Senator Kelly's complaint filed in court today includes social media statements by
08:56Donald Trump saying that what Senator Kelly said is, quote, punishable by death.
09:07Leading off our discussion tonight is former Navy pilot Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. He's a member of the
09:12Senate Armed Services Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator Kelly, thank you very much
09:16for joining us tonight. You have now turned Pete Hegseth into a defendant where through this process
09:24he's going to have to defend what he has done so far. And in my reading of the law, as
09:30your lawyer stated
09:31in this complaint, he has violated the law that he claims his action is based on.
09:41Well, Lawrence, thank you for having me on. I want to commend you for the great summary of the lawsuit.
09:49And I also want to say, hey, I told these guys, I told Donald Trump and I told Pete Hegseth
09:54that I'm
09:55not backing down. I'm not going away. This is much bigger than me. I flew dozens of combat missions
10:03over Iraq and Kuwait, got shot at, nearly shot down multiple times. I flew in space on the space shuttle
10:09four times. I've served this country for 25 years. I did not expect that after all of that service
10:18and then continuing my service in the United States Senate, that I would one day have to sue
10:24the secretary of defense for violating my constitutional rights, my rights of freedom of speech,
10:32but also due process and separation of powers rights. But, you know, this is this is much bigger than me.
10:39What I really worry about are the other veterans out there, you know, that don't have a platform like I
10:45do,
10:45don't have the right to speak on the Senate floor. Where are they going to be with this administration
10:52if they decide to speak out? So, you know, that's really the reason for my action today.
10:57I had to file this lawsuit because I need to be standing up for all Americans, not just myself.
11:05You know, I've been waiting for this. I mean, you've made it clear here and elsewhere in the Senate floor
11:10that you will not back down from anything that you've said. You will keep advancing the ideas that you want
11:17to advance.
11:17But it seemed to me that surely there was a legal maneuver. Surely there was something.
11:22And now, having read this, these 46 pages, now I get it. Now I see exactly what Pete Hegseth thought
11:28he was doing.
11:29And I can see exactly the case your lawyers make that it is completely illegal.
11:34This is something a judge could simply summarily rule to be illegal.
11:39But when I when I look at it, I think who else could do this?
11:44Who else without the resources the United States senator could bring to a moment like this could do this?
11:50If they were doing this to someone with less access to legal counsel, that person wouldn't have a chance in
11:57a situation like this.
11:59Well, think about that for a second. Think about the hundred year old World War Two veteran that might be
12:05out there
12:06and just decides to start saying stuff and speaking out because he feels like he's got some grievances
12:11or something to say about what this government is doing. Where is that guy going to be if he has
12:16the full force of the Department of Defense coming after him?
12:19Or all those retired admirals and generals that Pete Hegseth fired.
12:23Are they going to feel like they have the right to say anything at this point because this secretary of
12:30defense decided to essentially break the law and attack me?
12:34I mean, this is unlawful in many ways.
12:39It's not just a violation of my constitutional rights, my freedom of speech rights,
12:43but just the process and the framework in the Constitution of having due process rights
12:51and also then the separation of power between Congress and the executive branch.
12:57I mean, they have come at this unlawfully from many different angles.
13:02When this story broke, I said here, if you're going to go after Senator Kelly or anyone else for saying
13:10this,
13:10you have to go up to West Point and fire all those professors who've said it every year, multiple times
13:16a year.
13:16You have to go to Annapolis, fire all those professors, all those Navy professors, the Air Force Academy, everywhere.
13:23You have to go to every military base and fire every training official in the American military
13:29who has told the American military repeatedly that you should not follow unlawful orders.
13:36You seem now to be getting that message across even more loudly than you could have just with the release
13:43of that video.
13:46Oh, 100 percent.
13:48I mean, we didn't think that the president would say anything about that video.
13:51You know, if he if he did, he might say, well, of course, you shouldn't follow follow illegal or unlawful
13:57orders at West Point.
13:58By the way, I hope that person that's going up there to fire people at West Point walks by the
14:02plaque where it says when the law and orders are in conflict, you follow the law.
14:08Every West Point cadet has seen that plaque there.
14:13There are other versions of that.
14:15This is something that every member of the military is trained on early in their career.
14:19And it's also something that Hegseth used to get in 2016.
14:23He said this repeatedly on TV and specifically about this president, Donald Trump.
14:30And it was good for him then.
14:33And then we fast forward a decade later.
14:36And somehow when I say it, he says it's sedition and we're traitors and we should be executed.
14:43Well, the president said the execution part.
14:45And now Hegseth is going to prosecute me under these circumstances.
14:49As I said, I am not backing down, Lawrence.
14:53I would assume that you have the private support of almost every Republican senator, if not every Republican senator.
15:03I haven't heard anything really contrary to that, you know, personally.
15:08There have been some of my Republican colleagues that have come out publicly about this.
15:13And privately, there are others that I've talked to who get it and understand that if this is allowed to
15:22stand, Pete Hegseth's unlawful attack on me, that this affects all of us, not just all hundred of us in
15:30the Senate chamber, because it's much bigger than that.
15:33It has an impact on veterans, retired service members, and every single U.S. citizen who, at least today, you
15:42know, has First Amendment rights to speak out and say things that they believe, even when it's in contrast with
15:50what this president might believe.
15:53Senator Mark Kelly, thank you very much for starting off our coverage tonight.
15:58Thank you again for having me on.
16:02And now to the big question.
16:04What was that phone call all about?
16:06After she attacked him in a speech today, Senator Elizabeth Warren got her very first phone call ever from Donald
16:13Trump.
16:14Senator Warren will tell us about that strange phone call when she joins us next.
16:24What do you have to do to get Donald Trump to pick up the phone and call you?
16:28Here's how Senator Elizabeth Warren did it today.
16:34There are some driving up costs for families.
16:37Millions of Americans have lost their health insurance so that Republicans could fund tax breaks for rich people.
16:44Was there really no sound at the beginning of that day?
16:45There's chaos and terror in our communities, resulting in the tragic killing of Rene Good in Minnesota.
16:52And Donald Trump's view of the First Amendment is that he gets to say whatever he wants, and he gets
16:59to use the power of government to silence, extort, bankrupt, or even prosecute anyone who criticizes him.
17:07Acting like a wannabe dictator that he is, Trump is trying to push out the chairman of the Federal Reserve
17:17Board and complete his corrupt takeover of America's central bank so that it serves his interests along with his billionaire
17:26friends.
17:27And he has invaded Venezuela to boost the profits of oil companies and has announced that he will run the
17:35country.
17:37Yeah, that's right.
17:38Senator Elizabeth Warren went to the National Press Club to deliver an important 20-minute speech on Democratic Party policies,
17:45which, of course, included repeatedly attacking Donald Trump.
17:51For years, I fought for a simple, free government tax filing system, so nobody has to pay a couple hundred
17:59bucks just to file their taxes.
18:02And every step of the way, the giant tax prep companies have thrown up roadblocks to stop it.
18:09And when the IRS finally built a free and wildly popular filing option for American taxpayers, the tax prep companies
18:21swooped in to kill it the minute that Donald Trump took office.
18:26In response to a question after her speech at the Press Club, Senator Warren said this.
18:34Where is Donald Trump?
18:35Has he lifted a finger to move that bill forward in the House of Representatives?
18:42He sure knows how to get on the phone when he doesn't like what they're doing over the Epstein files.
18:48He knows how to get on the phone when he doesn't like what somebody is trying to do over Venezuela.
18:53But is he on the phone to say, move that housing bill so that we can start right now, today,
19:01on expanding more housing in America?
19:05Nope.
19:07And shortly after that, Donald Trump did get on the phone.
19:11And for the first time in his life, he called Senator Elizabeth Warren.
19:15Joining us now, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.
19:18She's the top Democrat on the Senate Banking Committee, a member of the Senate Finance Committee.
19:23Senator Warren, I need to hear all about it.
19:26Are you in a car when the phone rings?
19:28Where are you?
19:29Is it a cell phone call?
19:31Go ahead.
19:32Let's set the scene.
19:34Let me say just a little bit more about setting the scene.
19:36I appreciate that you picked out long excerpts.
19:39But basically what I said in that first part was talking about where Donald Trump is, the urgency of Democrats
19:45must, must, must win in November 2026 if we're going to have any hope of putting some restrictions on Donald
19:55Trump.
19:55And so what the speech was about is how Democrats do that.
19:59And the answer is we deliver on a populist agenda, that we make it clear that we understand that families
20:09are being pressed financially and that we have concrete proposals that are good, that will make a difference.
20:16And by damn, that we show we have some spine and that we're actually willing to get in there and
20:22fight for it.
20:23That's what the speech was all about.
20:25And I drew the contrast with Donald Trump about how on day one he promised he was going to lower
20:31costs.
20:32Here we are a year in and the cost of groceries is up.
20:37The cost of housing is up.
20:38The cost of utilities is up.
20:40The cost of health care is up.
20:42All driven by Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress and their policies.
20:48So I said, we need to hold those guys accountable and we need to deliver on lowering costs for American
20:56families.
20:57That's what the speech was about.
20:58We did a Q&A afterwards.
21:00We talked about Trump saying, well, he was going to put a cap on credit card interest rates.
21:05Talked about the fact that Trump says he's going to do things on lowering costs for families, but has not
21:12delivered and hasn't even given any indication that he's trying.
21:16I'm in the car, going back to my office afterwards, phone rings, it's Donald Trump.
21:22So did you recognize the phone number?
21:25Was it that White House switchboard number?
21:27Actually, I almost didn't pick up because I didn't recognize the number.
21:32But I thought, yeah, 202, that's probably somebody here in Washington.
21:37And it was somebody here in Washington.
21:40So, you know, I talked to him, but that's exactly what we talked about, is I talked about the importance
21:45of moving forward on lowering costs.
21:48You know, Donald Trump says he wants to do a cap on interest rates on credit cards.
21:54I've been arguing for that for years.
21:57Then fine, let's get it done.
22:00He says he wants to lower housing costs.
22:02Hell, we've got a housing bill that has is all about expanding the supply of housing, which is one of
22:10the most important ways we can start to bring down the cost of housing.
22:14It has passed the Senate unanimously.
22:18Why is it not law?
22:19Because it's held up by Republicans in the House of Representatives.
22:23Democrats are ready to go, but not the Republicans in the House.
22:27And Donald Trump hasn't lifted a finger to help move that forward.
22:31So, you know, look, talk is cheap.
22:34I get it.
22:35What I want to do is I want to deliver lower costs for American families.
22:41And that's what Democrats are in this fight to do.
22:46So the White House issued a statement about this call saying President Trump and Senator Warren had a productive call
22:54about credit card interest rates and housing affordability for the American people, the official said.
22:59That strikes me, Senator, as an attempt by the White House to try to, by Donald Trump, to try to
23:09get himself associated with you because he may believe that voters trust you on these issues more than him.
23:17Well, look, this is the deal right now.
23:21The White House is beginning finally to feel the heat that American families are in worse financial shape than they
23:29were when Donald Trump was sworn in a year ago.
23:32I just pick one on this, Lawrence.
23:35Did you know that foreclosure rates, mortgage foreclosure rates, people losing their homes, it's up 21 percent since Donald Trump
23:44was sworn into office.
23:46The American people have been telling us for years, election after election, that they want somebody to get in there
23:56and start unrigging that system.
23:58This economy keeps working better and better and better if you start out as a millionaire and even better if
24:04you start out as a billionaire.
24:06But it's not working for hardworking families.
24:09You know, I don't always agree with James Carville, but he said just about a month or two ago, he
24:16said it was clear even to him that Democrats need to run on the most populist agenda since the Great
24:27Depression.
24:27And if we're really going to win this election in November 2026, that's exactly what we've got to do.
24:36We've got to run on a populist agenda.
24:38We've got to show we've got the backbone to fight for the really tough ways to make changes in this
24:46system, even if those changes do not appeal to our billionaire donors and our CEO corporate friends.
24:55We've got to be Democrats again.
24:58You know, the Democrats who delivered Social Security and Medicare, the Democrats who delivered minimum wage, the Democrats who delivered
25:07legal rights for unions, the Democrats who delivered health care coverage for everyone and and home ownership opportunities for veterans
25:16and for first time homebuyers.
25:18We've got to be the people who make the concrete offers about the changes we're going to make and show
25:25that we're willing to get in this fight to get it done because we got to win in November.
25:32Senator Warren, we're going to squeeze in a commercial break here.
25:34When we come back, I want to ask you about Donald Trump's Justice Department investigating the Fed chair.
25:39This is something we've never seen before.
25:41Senator Warren, we'll be right back with Senator Warren.
25:47In response to reporters' questions after her speech at the National Press Club today in Washington, D.C., Senator Elizabeth
25:53Warren said this about Donald Trump's Justice Department launching a criminal investigation of the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome
26:01Powell.
26:03Now, this is a question about weaponizing the Department of Justice right out in plain view in order for Donald
26:15Trump to try to have a chance to take over the Fed as quickly as possible
26:21so that he can make political decisions that he thinks will help him rolling into the 2026 election, even if
26:30it has disastrous long-term consequences for our economy and also for our economic structure.
26:38Back with us, Senator Elizabeth Warren.
26:40Senator, did Donald Trump talk about Jerome Powell today when he called you on the phone?
26:44Now, we were on costs, but listen to the heart of that, because Donald Trump understands there's an election coming
26:53up.
26:53I mean, he's focused on it.
26:54And what he's doing is he's looking around, realizing that he's in a lot of trouble on the home front,
27:02on what's happening to the economy, on how stressed financially that most families are, how he has betrayed those families.
27:11And so Donald Trump is scrambling. He's scrambling to say, yeah, yeah, he's somebody who cares about lowering costs.
27:17He's also scrambling to see if he can get control over the Fed so that he can juice the economy
27:23by flooding it with a lot of cheap money, lowering the interest rates.
27:28That's what's going on here.
27:30But, Lawrence, that's why this moment is so important.
27:34It's why I gave this speech today in January, because this is when we build the structure to be able
27:41to beat Donald Trump next November.
27:44You know, last month, last week, I just gave away a little over $400,000 to 23 different state Democratic
27:54parties to help them build their infrastructure.
27:59These are all places where we have competitive Democratic elections, and that's what we've got to be doing.
28:06We've got to build a structure. We've got to win up and down the ticket.
28:11And we do that by having the right agenda, by fighting for it, and by starting right now.
28:17So I want to say to anybody who likes that idea who's listening, go to ElizabethWarren.com and pitch in
28:23another $10 for us so we can actually be in this fight with both feet, starting right now in the
28:31middle of January, and make it work all across this country.
28:35Because, believe me, it is up to us to put some restraints on Donald Trump and to make this economy
28:44work, not for Donald Trump's billionaire friends and oil buddies, but to make this economy work for the American people.
28:53We got an important campaign announcement for the Senate, Mary Peltola, running in Alaska today.
29:00And that opens up the possibility of four Senate turnovers now, because that makes that a really possible pickup for
29:09Democrats.
29:10If Mary Peltola wins, if there's enough Democratic victories across the board, you become the next chair of the Senate
29:19Banking Committee.
29:20And how does that change things?
29:22Well, look, it means that we no longer have people in control who just bow down to Donald Trump.
29:30It means that his nominees just don't automatically make it through.
29:34It means that you don't get sign-off on a trillion-dollar tax cut for billionaires.
29:40It means that we have the capacity in Congress to start to put some constraints on Donald Trump and to
29:49start to deliver for the American people.
29:53You know, there's a lot we can do in Congress if we have Democrats in the House and the Senate.
30:00And that is powerfully important.
30:03We can't afford to take this upcoming race for granted and say, well, you know, things are looking good overall.
30:10We'll just count on it rolling on through.
30:13We've got to be in this fight, and we've got to be in this fight hard, starting right now.
30:18Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
30:22Thank you for having me.
30:23It's always good to be with you.
30:25Keep that phone open all the time, ready to answer whenever the call comes.
30:29Thank you, Senator.
30:31Coming up, and now it's Minnesota versus Kristi Noem.
30:36With the state of Minnesota filing a lawsuit today against Kristi Noem and the Department of Homeland Security,
30:41Senator Ruben Gallego, a member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, will join us next.
30:51And now it's the state of Minnesota versus Kristi Noem.
30:54The state of Minnesota, along with the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, have gone to federal court naming Kristi
31:00Noem as the lead defendant in a lawsuit asking a federal judge to stop what the lawsuit calls a federal
31:07invasion of the Twin Cities.
31:09The lawsuit says defendants claim to have deployed over 2,000 DHS agents to the Twin Cities, a number that
31:18greatly exceeds the number of sworn police officers that Minneapolis and St. Paul have combined.
31:26Operation Metro Surge is, in essence, a federal invasion of the Twin Cities.
31:33And announcing the lawsuit against Kristi Noem, Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison said this.
31:39These poorly trained, aggressive, and armed agents of the federal state have terrorized Minnesota with widespread unlawful conduct.
31:47They're making unconstitutional arrests and using excessive force.
31:53DHS agents have barged into restaurants asking to access secure areas.
31:58And when asked to present a warrant, which is required by law, they respond, we don't need one.
32:05DHS agents have arrested peaceful bystanders.
32:08They have fired chemical irritants at people obeying lawful, lawful orders while exercising their First Amendment rights.
32:16They have even done so at some of our most sensitive places, like Roosevelt High School here in Minneapolis.
32:26They have detained law-abiding citizens, leaving them handcuffed for hours just because of the color of their skin or
32:35what they're wearing or they speak English with an accent.
32:38And on January 7, 2026, a DHS agent shot and killed Renee Nicole Good, leaving her children without a mother
32:52and her six-year-old son without either parent.
32:55The deployment of thousands of armed mass DHS agents to Minnesota has done our state serious harm.
33:03This is, in essence, a federal invasion of the Twin Cities and Minnesota, and it must stop.
33:10When Donald Trump went on a hiring spree for ICE agents last year, he had to find thousands of unemployed
33:17people who would suddenly become capable law enforcement officers.
33:22Donald Trump's Homeland Security Department recently announced $50,000 hiring bonuses for ICE agents.
33:29$50,000 bonuses for people who might be otherwise unemployable.
33:34The truth of law enforcement training is that the training classes at the beginning of a law enforcement career have
33:42much less of an effect on the behavior of law enforcement than the on-the-job training that new officers
33:50receive from veteran officers on patrol with them.
33:55And it was a 10-year veteran ICE officer who decided to shoot Renee Good, killing her, after she said
34:03to him, I'm not mad at you.
34:07Donald Trump and J.D. Vance claimed that the officer was hit by Renee Good's car and injured before he
34:13decided to kill her.
34:14There is no video evidence that supports that claim, and it was very clear that the officer had no problem
34:20walking great distances on the scene after he shot and killed Renee Good.
34:27Did not appear in any way to be injured even slightly as he was walking around the scene in those
34:34videos.
34:34And in a social media post, our next guest, Senator Ruben Gallego, challenged J.D. Vance's false version of the
34:43event, saying,
34:44When did it become proper weapons handling to have your cell phone in one hand and your gun in the
34:52other?
34:53No law enforcement ever trains to get in front of vehicle, and why did he continue to shoot even after
35:01she drove away?
35:02A U.S. citizen died, and the VP is trying to justify it.
35:08Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego of Arizona.
35:11He's a member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee.
35:15Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
35:17I was really struck by your view of the incident itself, where, shockingly enough, the officer's using two hands,
35:26two different trains of thought, holding a camera, a cell phone camera in one hand,
35:32and then reaching for his handgun with only his right hand, only one hand,
35:37and then trusting the judgment that he makes in that kind of off-balance, divided attention situation.
35:46Well, look, Lawrence, this is personal to me.
35:49I had to deal with very serious situations when I was in Iraq, involving vehicles,
35:55involving very sticky situations where I did not know if I had to shoot or not shoot,
35:59if I had to shoot to keep myself alive and keep my Marines alive,
36:03and if I shot, was I going to kill an innocent person?
36:07That is a lot of pressure.
36:09That is a lot of responsibility.
36:12What type of man decides to walk around with a phone camera
36:18and at the same time trying to make life-and-death decisions
36:21and then decide to make life decisions and then pump one bullet in that may have been forward-facing,
36:28but clearly the other two were on the side?
36:30Who is this person?
36:33This person is clearly not someone that should be in law enforcement,
36:37and I don't care what he had dealt with before.
36:40I don't care what kind of training he had before.
36:44No professional law enforcement, no true person that actually has any type of courage
36:49would have decided to do that.
36:51That man is a coward.
36:52He's an absolute coward.
36:54I have felt the hardest situations.
36:56I have had my colleagues blown up around me,
37:00and then the next day I went out and was very professional,
37:03and did not go and start shooting randomly.
37:05Certainly not at other Americans, and certainly this man was not in a war zone.
37:09And the fact that this administration allows these men and women
37:14that are acting like absolute cowards,
37:16and they are bullying fellow Americans,
37:19and breaking all these silver liberties in the process of just trying to strike fear.
37:27This is not about the immigration enforcement war.
37:29This is about striking fear and trying to suppress the citizens of Minneapolis.
37:34That's all that's happening right now.
37:37When you mention your combat situation, which is so profoundly pressurized,
37:44and the need to be careful there,
37:47the concern that you brought to that level,
37:49we didn't see that kind of concern on that street in Minneapolis.
37:54And the other point you're stressing is that the second and third shots
37:59are clearly taken from beside the car when there is no danger to any ICE agent at all.
38:08And each shot fired by anyone in law enforcement has to be a separate decision.
38:13You're not allowed to just empty the gun.
38:15All the deadly force rules say after each time you fire, assess the situation.
38:20Because presumably, if you fired your gun, it had an effect.
38:24So you're supposed to take in, what's the effect of me just firing my gun?
38:28Do I need to fire it again?
38:29He made three decisions there.
38:31And those two, standing beside the car,
38:34are a different decision from the one in the front row.
38:36Well, yeah, absolutely.
38:37It's a criminal decision,
38:38and this administration will not prosecute this.
38:42I don't want to call him a man.
38:43He's a coward.
38:43But at some point, whenever this administration is done,
38:47I hope the state of Minnesota will actually prosecute him for murder.
38:50It's clear that man committed murder,
38:54and it's clear that man has some level of issues that he feels he has to empty,
39:00you know, his gun sideways into a woman that was no longer a threat to him.
39:05But also, the reason why he is doing this,
39:08it's because, and the reason you see all these ICE agents acting the way they are,
39:13the Border Patrol acting the way they are,
39:14is because they know that there's no accountability.
39:16They know that nobody from the Trump administration is going to hold them accountable,
39:20so they'll just do whatever they want.
39:22There's a difference between our local police,
39:24who, you know, I think people have a lot of complaints,
39:27but 99% of local police are actually very well professional.
39:31They're trusted.
39:32And it's because they're trained well.
39:34They don't go through the hasty training that these guys went through.
39:38And number two, they know there's a level of accountability.
39:40They have to answer to the police.
39:41They have to answer to the local populace,
39:43and they have to answer to a city council.
39:45These guys know that, you know, Donald Trump, J.D. Vance,
39:48and all these guys are going to make excuses for them,
39:50even when they literally murder an American.
39:53They literally murder an American.
39:55What happened that day was absolute murder.
39:58It was unjustified.
39:59And that police officer should be in jail.
40:02That ICE officer should be in jail.
40:04And local police, as you mentioned,
40:06do not wear masks to try to hide who they are
40:10while they're doing their job.
40:13I didn't wear a mask in Iraq.
40:16Senator Ruben Gallego,
40:18thank you very much for joining us tonight.
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