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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 27
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00:01All right, that's going to do it for me for now. Now it's time for the last word with the
00:04great O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
00:07Good evening, Rachel. And I was great to see that map you put up there in that segment about all
00:12the possible locations for the warehouses that the Trump administration is trying to acquire to create to warehouse people, to
00:21create prison camps all over the country.
00:23We followed your lead on that. On Thursday night, when we found Roger Wicker, Mississippi senators, he's the chairman of
00:32the Armed Services Committee, of course, and he writes a letter to Kristi Noem basically saying, don't you dare.
00:38She was in negotiations for a warehouse in Byhalia, Mississippi, way up on the northern end of Mississippi.
00:46About 1,500 people, 1,300 people live in that town. 8,500 people they intended to incarcerate there, six
00:55times the population of the town.
00:56The town doesn't want it. The senator doesn't want it. And his letter basically said to her, don't just stay
01:02out of this town. Stay out of the state of Mississippi.
01:06Yeah. Yeah. And and he is one of many, many, many Republicans everywhere in the country.
01:14They want to put one of these things. Local Republican and Democratic elected officials are horrified by it.
01:21Nobody wants a Trump prison camp in their town. And, you know, some of it is nimbyism.
01:27Absolutely. Some of it is like, oh, we'll lose the property tax that we usually are used to collecting from
01:32that facility.
01:33But a lot of it is we don't want to be known as a prison camp town.
01:37We don't want to be associated with one of the biggest prison facilities ever built in the United States,
01:44which is going to be administered the way what ice is operating in the streets of this country.
01:49And you know how the American people feel about it. I mean, whether or not Trump gets this archipelago of
01:54prison camps is going to be decided in very short order this year.
01:57And those fights in Mississippi and Utah and Oklahoma and New Hampshire and all over the country are going to
02:05determine in many ways the moral future of our country.
02:08It's really fascinating to watch this stuff.
02:10Yeah. And it determines ISIS capacity in terms of, OK, how many people can they actually drag off the street
02:18if they have no place to bring them?
02:20Yes, that's exactly right. And you see with all of these, you know, all of these places where they're defying
02:27court orders,
02:28they're arresting people and they're locking people up and they're trying to prevent those people from ever getting into court
02:33to have their case heard.
02:34That's because they want to be able to lock people up without cause and without due process,
02:40which creates a supply side demand for prison space.
02:46And they want to use that to justify building all these more prisons.
02:50And so getting people due process slows down the supply side part of it,
02:55but also choking off their ability to build these new facilities will set a limit on how many people they
03:02can lock up.
03:03And all these fights are just very live, very contingent and very local right now.
03:08And I just love listening to your guest tonight and the way you highlighted how these people have just decided
03:14to do this.
03:15Here's this Air Force veteran who's just kind of looked around and started tracking this.
03:19He knows how to track it. He's delivering great information.
03:23Yeah. To have Air Force and Army veterans and lawyers and all sorts of people who have like federal procurement
03:30experience,
03:31you know, people who are real experts in this stuff, just put that expertise to use for a public facing
03:38citizen generated database
03:41that everybody can use to fight their own fight in their own community and in their own town.
03:46It's just a it's a it's a really to me, it's very inspirational form of public service.
03:51Well, thanks for leading the coverage on this one, Rachel.
03:54Thanks, Lawrence.
03:57Well, no matter what he does, it always comes back to the Epstein files.
04:02No matter what Donald Trump does, it always comes back to the Epstein files,
04:07as it did today when convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, who Donald Trump once called evil
04:14and is now considering pardoning, took the Fifth Amendment to every question in a deposition for the House Oversight Committee,
04:22no matter what he does, it always comes back to the Epstein files.
04:28He invades Venezuela for a day, but it always comes back to the Epstein files.
04:33He childishly threatens Greenland for weeks and the news media falls for it.
04:38And when that goofy game is over, it came back to the Epstein files.
04:43He attacks the halftime entertainment at the Super Bowl, once again, proving he is the only president small minded and
04:52hateful enough to do that.
04:54And today it comes back to the Epstein files and his old friend Ghislaine Maxwell,
05:00taking the Fifth Amendment on the same day that some members of Congress got to see the unredacted Epstein files,
05:07which, big surprise, still have redactions, as Congressman Ro Khanna will report to us in our coverage tonight.
05:14Donald Trump watches the Super Bowl and manages to seethe with hatred at people singing and dancing
05:21in celebration of the full meaning of the word America, which Donald Trump does not know
05:26applies to anything other than the United States of America.
05:30Donald Trump has no idea that there's a continent called North America, another continent called South America,
05:36and a region called Central America.
05:38And every country in all of those lands from the North Pole to the South Pole are the Americas.
05:46Imagine if Donald Trump had been on the sidelines of the Super Bowl as a coach.
05:53He couldn't do what we saw the opposing coaches do after the game.
06:01There they are, shaking hands.
06:04The loser congratulates the winner.
06:07That happens every time in every Super Bowl.
06:11It happens in every NFL game all year.
06:14The loser does not demand a recount.
06:16The loser does not scream about the referees.
06:19The loser does not say the game was rigged.
06:24But Donald Trump would.
06:25That's what he would have done if he was on those sidelines.
06:29And what do the losing players do after the game?
06:32After some of them almost came to blows at a certain point in the game,
06:36when the scoreboard clock ticks down to zero, those players shake hands.
06:40They hug.
06:41The losers congratulate the winners.
06:45The winners tell the losers they played well.
06:48The Super Bowl was filled with anti-Trump demonstrators,
06:54including both of the teams on the field,
06:57because those players showed how to win.
07:01And much more importantly, those players showed how to lose.
07:06They showed kids how to lose in a way that Donald Trump never could.
07:10Handshakes.
07:11Hugs.
07:13Congratulations.
07:15That was always the American way of losing.
07:19Until Donald Trump injected his venom into our politics.
07:25Donald Trump, last week, threatens to take over our elections,
07:30threatens to nationalize elections,
07:32and we will pay attention to those threats,
07:34as Senator John Ossoff just said we should.
07:36That we must defend our election system against those threats.
07:40But tonight,
07:42tonight, once again,
07:44it always comes back to the Epstein files.
07:48At the end of last week,
07:50Donald Trump does a midnight social media post
07:52that the Senate's only black Republican called,
07:54quote,
07:55the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House.
08:00And tonight,
08:01even after that,
08:03it comes back to the Epstein files.
08:05On Friday,
08:06it seemed like Donald Trump's racist video
08:08of President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama,
08:12a fake video,
08:12stopped the world.
08:14Stopped the media world, anyway.
08:15And it did stop the world for a day or two
08:17of consideration of Donald Trump's vicious racism.
08:21In the New York Times,
08:22Jamel Bowie,
08:23who will join us this evening,
08:24got it right
08:25in the headline of his article saying,
08:27this is just who Trump is.
08:30If you've been watching Donald Trump's stupidity and racism,
08:33which are actually opposite sides of the same coin
08:35for the decades that it has been on public display,
08:39then there was nothing,
08:41nothing surprising
08:42in Donald Trump's latest racist attack
08:45against the two highest achieving black Americans
08:49in our history,
08:49whose very existence
08:52fills Donald Trump
08:53with poisonous jealousy.
08:56Donald Trump was in college
08:59when this was happening.
09:04this was the stuff of the TV nightly news in the 1960s.
09:10And when America saw these images,
09:13America chose sides.
09:15And not everyone chose the same side.
09:19I was in elementary school when I saw those images and I chose sides.
09:22My parents chose sides.
09:24It was easy for us.
09:25We chose the side President Kennedy chose before he was assassinated.
09:29We chose the side of the people being attacked.
09:31But millions of other people chose the side of the attackers and millions of those people
09:36who chose the side of the attackers stayed on the side of the attackers for the rest of
09:42their lives.
09:43And many of those people are still with us.
09:46Bull Connor, the racist Southern sheriff, who was the worst of the worst, was called a racist pig in those
09:52days.
09:53Not just by the Black Panthers.
09:55And on Bull Connor's side, a label like racist pig was worn as a badge of honor.
10:03On Friday morning, when I saw the false image of the Obamas that Donald Trump posted, the horror just silenced
10:13me, like I know it did many others.
10:16I had nothing to say.
10:19Nothing came to mind.
10:21No sentences came to mind.
10:23Nothing substantive.
10:24I had no substantive response to it, even silently in my head.
10:31But just those two words, those two words that I heard so many times in my youth, just those two
10:38words, I heard so many times about Bull Connor, the two words I heard about George Wallace.
10:47Racist pig.
10:50Those two words say it all for people of a certain age.
10:56Robert Reich is one of those people.
10:58He is Donald Trump's age.
11:01He remembers the people called racist pigs in the 1960s.
11:08He served as Bill Clinton's labor secretary, and he chose sides in the 1960s and joined the civil rights movement.
11:17While Donald Trump was learning from his father how to operate a racist real estate business and did where they
11:23did everything they could to block black people from renting apartments in Trump buildings.
11:29Robert Reich's thoughtful piece about Donald Trump's racist attack on the Obama's is titled, is it unkind to describe our
11:38president as a racist pig?
11:44Racist pig.
11:46Racist pig.
11:47Those are the only words that I could even form for hours and hours and hours after seeing what Donald
11:56Trump posted on social media.
11:59Never forget that there are 273 elected Republican officials in Washington, 273.
12:09And less than half a dozen of them had the slightest problem with the Trump racist video about the Obama's
12:17before Donald Trump was forced to retreat and took down the video without ever apologizing.
12:25That silence from all of those Republicans tells you who they are, tells you which side they're on, tells you
12:36which side they have chosen.
12:39The most prominent Republican objector was Senator Tim Scott, who said Donald Trump should remove the video, which Donald Trump
12:47did a few hours later, and of course never said he did anything wrong and never apologized.
12:54Senator Scott said, quote, it's the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House, which provoked me to
13:03ask Senator Scott on social media to tell us about the other racist things.
13:07He has seen out of this White House, what's the second most racist thing he's seen out of this White
13:12House?
13:13Senator Scott did not reply.
13:16And as big as that story was, as overwhelming as that story was, as horrible as that story was, as
13:25explosive and ugly and purely Trumpian as that story was on Friday and into Saturday, once again tonight,
13:34it always comes back to the Epstein files.
13:38We learned today from reporting by Julie Kay Brown in the Miami Herald that in 2006, Donald Trump told the
13:45Palm Beach police chief that Donald Trump said, he said this to the Palm Beach police chief about Jeffrey Epstein,
13:51quote,
13:51everyone has known he's been doing this.
13:55That quote appears in the Epstein files in an FBI report found by Julie Kay Brown that details an interview
14:02the FBI conducted with Palm Beach police chief Michael Ryder.
14:06Julie Kay Brown is the reporter who, in effect, reopened the Jeffrey Epstein case for the national news media.
14:12She reports, quote, in July 2006, just as Jeffrey Epstein's criminal case became public, Trump called then Palm Beach police
14:20chief Michael Ryder to tell him that Epstein's activities with teenage girls were well known in both New York and
14:27Palm Beach.
14:29The FBI report says, quote, Trump said Maxwell was Epstein's operative.
14:35She is evil and to focus on her.
14:39And now Donald Trump says he knew nothing about what Jeffrey Epstein was up to.
14:45And now Donald Trump says he's thinking about pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell.
14:49Donald Trump's Justice Department has already moved her to the easiest federal corrections facility that exists, presumably, obviously, as a
14:58reward for saying she never saw Donald Trump commit a crime.
15:03When she was perfectly happy to answer meaningless questions asked of her in an interview by Donald Trump's criminal defense
15:10lawyer, who is now Donald Trump's deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, she was willing to answer Donald Trump's lawyers questions,
15:16but she would not answer a single question.
15:18Put to her by the House Oversight Committee today.
15:22When asked today if she was involved in the recruitment and grooming or trafficking of young girls, Ghislaine Maxwell could
15:31have said no.
15:31It's a simple question.
15:33She could have said no, but instead she refused to answer the question because it could incriminate her in crimes.
15:41That is what the Fifth Amendment means.
15:43It means it means you are refusing to answer a question because if you do, your answer could be used
15:48against you in a criminal prosecution.
15:52And Ghislaine Maxwell, the sex trafficker who we learned today Donald Trump once called evil, knows that she cannot answer
15:59any more questions about the crimes that she committed and still get a pardon from Donald Trump.
16:08Ghislaine Maxwell was asked if she ever coerced a girl to provide sexual favors to Jeffrey Epstein, and she did
16:15not say no.
16:18She could have said no.
16:20She could have said no.
16:21I never coerced a child to do anything with Jeffrey Epstein.
16:25Why wasn't that an easy no for Ghislaine Maxwell?
16:27When she was asked if she had ever coerced a child to have sex with her dear friend Jeffrey Epstein,
16:33she said that if she answers that question, it could incriminate her in crimes that she has not already been
16:42prosecuted for.
16:43That is what the Fifth Amendment means.
16:45You're not allowed to just take the Fifth Amendment because you don't want to answer a question.
16:50The only grounds in which you are allowed to take the Fifth Amendment is that you have reason to believe
16:55that if you answer the question, you will be giving evidence against yourself that can be used to prosecute you
17:03for crimes that you have not already been prosecuted for.
17:07And so Ghislaine Maxwell said today that any answer she might give about anything involving the words Jeffrey Epstein could
17:16lead to her being prosecuted for crimes that would be crimes in addition to what she's already been prosecuted for,
17:24because you cannot incriminate yourself in a criminal case where you've already been found guilty.
17:32There's nothing quite like seeing and hearing.
17:36Ghislaine Maxwell, when finally confronted with real questions, she never took the witness stand in her criminal trial to defend
17:44against a single word that the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein said in testimony against her at that trial.
17:50The survivor's testimony was believed by the jury and Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of sex trafficking.
17:56And Ghislaine Maxwell and her lawyers decided that there was absolutely no way she could help her criminal defense in
18:04that trial by testifying.
18:06And what you are about to see is a demonstration of just how guilty sounding a witness Ghislaine Maxwell would
18:12have been in her criminal trial where she was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
18:18Here is convicted sex trafficking, Ghislaine Maxwell, this morning being asked the real questions that Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer,
18:29now his deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, who is a personal friend of Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer, refused to
18:36ask Ghislaine Maxwell when he had his chance to question her.
18:44Ms. Maxwell, were you a close friend of Jeffrey Epstein?
18:50I would like to answer your question, but on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer this question
18:58and any related questions.
19:01My habeas petition is pending in the Southern District of New York.
19:06I therefore invoke my right to silence under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
19:13Let the record reflect that Ms. Maxwell has invoked the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.
19:19Ms. Maxwell, please be very clear.
19:22Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will
19:27incriminate you?
19:28I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
19:34Ms. Maxwell, did you at any time play any role in Jeffrey Epstein's activities involving the recruitment, grooming, or trafficking
19:42of young women or girls?
19:45I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
19:49Let the record reflect that Ms. Maxwell has invoked the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.
19:54Ms. Maxwell, please be very clear.
19:57Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will
20:03incriminate you?
20:04I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
20:09Ms. Maxwell, have you ever coerced, directed, or otherwise instructed any young woman or girl to provide sexual favors to
20:18Mr. Epstein or any other individual?
20:21I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
20:25I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
20:25Let the record reflect that Ms. Maxwell has invoked the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.
20:32Ms. Maxwell, please be very clear.
20:34Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will
20:39incriminate you?
20:41I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
20:46Ms. Maxwell, did you and Jeopardy have seen an attempt to surround yourselves with influential individuals to curry favor and
20:53shield yourselves from potential scrutiny?
20:57I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
21:00Let the record reflect that Ms. Maxwell has invoked the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.
21:06Ms. Maxwell, please be very clear.
21:08Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will
21:13incriminate you?
21:15I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
21:21Ms. Maxwell, can you please provide us with all the names of other additional co-conspirators to the crimes perpetuated
21:30by you and Jeffrey Epstein?
21:33I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
21:37Let the record reflect that Ms. Maxwell is invoked to the Fifth Amendment against self-incrimination.
21:42Ms. Maxwell, please be very clear.
21:45Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will
21:50incriminate you?
21:52I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
21:56Ms. Maxwell, is it your intention to answer every question put to you by the committee today with the assertion
22:02of your Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination?
22:06I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.
22:09The answer to that is yes also.
22:11So just as her lawyer, I'll tell you, yes, that's her intention.
22:17That's Donald Trump's old friend, Ghislaine Maxwell.
22:20Many photographs of them partying together.
22:22He once told police that she is evil.
22:26He is now considering pardoning her.
22:30Leading off our discussion tonight is Congressman Robert Garcia of California, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee.
22:36Congressman Garcia, what did you take away from that deposition today?
22:44Well, let me start just by saying, Lawrence, that, you know, Republicans put out that video today.
22:49They actually didn't include the questions in the video that the Democrats asked, that our council asked as well.
22:55And I just want to be very clear that in the question that was asked, we asked a couple questions
22:59as well.
23:00But we also specifically asked about President Trump.
23:03And I think that Republicans chose to conveniently not include that in what they released.
23:07But we also specifically asked whether Ghislaine Maxwell and through her work with Jeffrey Epstein, whether she knew if Donald
23:15Trump was aware of the trafficking and abuse of women and girls.
23:19And she also would not answer that question, as well as additional questions that were asked by our lawyers on
23:27the Democratic side.
23:28And so she clearly, it was laid out by her attorneys today during the deposition and later on publicly.
23:35What she wants is a pardon from Donald Trump.
23:39And the American public should be clear that's that what this is all about.
23:45She, of course, her attorney, through her attorney, essentially told us that during the deposition, that only Ghislaine Maxwell knew
23:52the truth.
23:53Only she could tell the full story.
23:55But the only way that she'd be able to do so is that she had clemency and a process for
24:01her to be able to tell her story.
24:03So we know what she wants here.
24:04And Donald Trump should commit to the American public immediately that he'll not grant her a pardon.
24:11So let's just go over that again.
24:13On the Democratic side, she was asked to basically, she was given a chance in the questioning to completely absolve
24:21Donald Trump.
24:22And she refused to do that.
24:25That is 100 percent correct.
24:27And I think it's unfortunate that James Comer and Republicans decided to essentially put out not the complete version of
24:36the video.
24:36Because after those questions ended, there's a series of questions that included President Trump that were made by Democratic counsel.
24:44And, of course, as you know, only James Comer and Republicans control the deposition in which release to the public.
24:50And so we, the Republicans, we've told them they should release the entire set of questions.
24:56And so we're hoping they do so.
24:57But I want to clarify for the public that Donald Trump was asked about very directly.
25:02And she refused to answer the question.
25:04And she refused to absolve Donald Trump of anything as it relates to women and girls and trafficking and the
25:10abuse of women.
25:11And the use of the Fifth Amendment does have limitations.
25:15I mean, this, for example, this is someone who's already been convicted of sex trafficking.
25:19So if you were asking her questions within the scope of that trial, within the scope of what she's already
25:26been convicted for, there is no Fifth Amendment protection there.
25:29You cannot invoke, you know, self-incrimination for something you've already been found guilty for.
25:36That's right.
25:37But she would not clear Donald Trump today in the questioning from the Democratic side as it related to the
25:44trafficking of women and girls.
25:45I think it's important for us to make that very clear.
25:47Yeah. So as of today, Ghislaine Maxwell, under oath, asked, is Donald Trump involved in any way in the crimes
25:55of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?
25:57And she refused to say no.
25:59She did not, in fact, absolve Donald Trump.
26:04That's 100 percent correct.
26:05And her lawyers, of course, proceeded to make it very clear that the only way that we would get the
26:10truth is if Ghislaine Maxwell had a clemency process.
26:13We all know what this is about. This is about her wanting to pardon.
26:16It's why she got moved to a cushy prison.
26:19It's why we have no answers to who moved her, who made the order, why the cover-up, why it's
26:25Todd Blanch, Donald Trump's former personal attorney, that's the one moving all this forward.
26:29I mean, I think finally people are beginning to understand where this is headed.
26:33And the fact that Donald Trump won't come out and just be very clear with the public to say that
26:39he will not grant her a pardon.
26:41I mean, the fact that not every single Republican in Congress won't commit to being clear that this monster who
26:47herself abused and raped children,
26:51the fact that they are unwilling to actually call this out as a pardon, which would be completely unacceptable to
26:57the public, I think is disgraceful, completely disgraceful and shameful.
27:02You know, on the same day when we have this report of the Epstein files of Donald Trump telling a
27:07police chief in 2006 that Ghislaine Maxwell is evil,
27:13this video seems to be corroboration of that idea that she is evil.
27:20The notion that Republicans were somehow, I don't know, helping Donald Trump by releasing just this piece of the video,
27:27they must not understand what is actually visible to everyone else on that video.
27:34That's exactly right.
27:35And I think, one, I think Republicans should release the entire video, including the Democratic questioning.
27:41I'm not sure why they chose not to do that.
27:43And in addition to that, starting with Speaker Johnson, they should make it clear and very clear, not just to
27:50the American public,
27:51but to their own constituents who are demanding justice, more and more of them every single day.
27:55They should make it clear that they will not support clemency or a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell, because that's what
28:01she's want.
28:01That's what she's telegraphing to Donald Trump.
28:03Donald Trump is clearly considering it, because what he wants is to continue to leave this cover up.
28:10He wants her to shut up.
28:11He doesn't want her to give us the truth.
28:13It's been clear from day one.
28:14They've tried to hide the files.
28:16They said the story was over.
28:18They said there was no more to release.
28:19And now they're keeping 50 percent of the files withheld from Congress and the public.
28:26That's not transparency.
28:28That's a cover up.
28:29And I think everybody knows it.
28:32Any Republican member of the House who wants to come on this program to defend protecting Ghislaine Maxwell by hiding
28:37the rest of that video is welcome to join us here.
28:40Congressman Robert Garcia, thank you very much for leading off our coverage tonight.
28:47And coming up, Congressman Ro Khanna was allowed to see the unredacted Epstein files today.
28:53Spoiler alert, the unredacted Epstein files also have redactions.
28:58Congressman Khanna will tell us all about it when he joins us next.
29:05Today, Congressman Ro Khanna attended the deposition of Ghislaine Maxwell and then was allowed to see the unredacted Epstein files.
29:14Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California.
29:16He's a member of the House Oversight Committee.
29:19Congressman, what was your takeaway from the deposition of Ghislaine Maxwell?
29:27Well, she provided no answers.
29:29I mean, for eight hours, she was giving Todd Blanche every answer that he wanted.
29:35And yet when it came to simple questions such as did she see other people rape underage girls, she pleaded
29:43the Fifth Amendment, even though that's not self-incriminating.
29:46And what was so offensive is she said, I'll tell you the names if you give me clemency.
29:52She needs to go back to the maximum security prison.
29:57What about finding out how she got her transfer from the maximum security prison?
30:03Well, she said that that was self-incriminating and that actually probably is self-incriminating.
30:08But the reality is that neither her lawyer or she wanted to answer any questions and they just had a
30:16blanket Fifth Amendment.
30:17And I saw a ranking member, Garcia's earlier segment.
30:21He's absolutely right.
30:22They doctored what the video was that they put out.
30:24They need to put out the full video.
30:26But this was a total game by Comer.
30:30And they're basically letting Maxwell slide.
30:34After that, you go over to see the unredacted Epstein files.
30:39And what do you find?
30:41Well, let me actually break some news here right now, because the DOJ has now unredacted things at Massey and
30:49my request.
30:50We saw that there were six men whose names were inappropriately redacted.
30:56And Massey and I flagged this for the DOJ.
30:59And now they've actually put those identities out there for the public.
31:04Here's the problem, Lawrence.
31:05So, I mean, members can go and call out these mistakes and have them make it public.
31:10But there's something much broader that I hope people will understand.
31:13In March, Donald Trump ordered the FBI to scrub these files.
31:18He ordered them to redact these files.
31:21They sent those scrubbed files to DOJ.
31:25And so the person at DOJ said to Massey and me, we just uploaded these files.
31:30We already got them redacted.
31:32So the core issue is that they're not complying with Massey and my law because these were scrubbed back in
31:38March by Donald Trump's FBI.
31:41And your law is directed at both the FBI specifically and the Department of Justice.
31:47So justice can't say, well, they arrived at us redacted.
31:51That doesn't answer what the law requires.
31:54It doesn't.
31:55In fact, we explicitly call out the FBI in the law.
31:59And as you know, the FBI director reports to Pam Bondi.
32:03And so the issue is, were there mistakes made with DOJ?
32:07Yes.
32:07And Massey and I actually pointed out six identity issues which were protected and now are revealed.
32:14But that's not the bigger issue.
32:16What the American people really want to know is what was redacted by the FBI in March.
32:21That's where you have the survivor's statements to the FBI agents, still redacted.
32:27That's where you have the prosecution memo of why charges weren't brought, still redacted.
32:31And that's the real scandal.
32:33That's the real cover up here.
32:36Carson Massey said, before these redacted names got unredacted, that the names of at least six men have been redacted
32:44that are likely incriminated.
32:47Was that your reading of those parts of the files?
32:52That was my reading, that they're serious allegations.
32:55I mean, they're as part of the co-conspirator list.
32:58There are two things that were a bit sloppy.
33:00One, all women basically were redacted.
33:03Now, in some cases, maybe that's to protect survivors.
33:06And some of them were survivors and also perhaps implicated.
33:11But some of the women actually did illegal things.
33:14And it seemed like DOJ just had all the women.
33:17But then Massey and I found that there were some of the men who were named as co-conspirators whose
33:21identity was also redacted.
33:24But, you know, the people at Justice, they were acting in good faith.
33:27They were trying to help us do the searches.
33:29And then Massey and I kept saying, yeah, but it's still redacted.
33:31And they said, sir, what can we do?
33:33We got the documents this way.
33:35And so this is just a game.
33:37There were maybe hundreds of attorneys, U.S. attorneys at Southern District of New York, reviewing it in good faith.
33:43But they were reviewing documents that had already been scrubbed.
33:48Carson Ro Khanna, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
33:53And coming up, anyone who was surprised that Donald Trump posted a racist fake video about President Barack Obama and
34:01Michelle Obama
34:02has not been paying attention to Donald Trump's public racism.
34:07The New York Times columnist, Jamel Bowie, says Donald Trump has never hidden who he really is.
34:14Jamel Bowie will join us next.
34:20Donald Trump's first entry in the most important newspaper in his hometown was in 1973 at age 26 under the
34:31headline,
34:31a major landlord accused of anti-black bias in the city.
34:36The New York Times reported the Department of Justice charging discrimination against blacks in apartment rentals brought suit in federal
34:43court in Brooklyn yesterday against the Trump Management Corporation,
34:46a major owner and manager of real estate.
34:50Donald Trump and his father settled that suit.
34:54They did not fight it.
34:55And so one of Donald Trump's first entries in public life was as an accused racist.
35:02New York Times columnist Jamel Bowie has been paying attention.
35:06His column, written after Donald Trump's posting of a racist false video about President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, is
35:12titled,
35:12This is just who Trump is.
35:15He writes,
35:16What motivates Trump?
35:18The answer is simple.
35:20Racism.
35:21You might also say ego and raw self-interest, but the two are connected.
35:25Racism, among other things, is a kind of chauvinism, a belief in one's inherent superiority based on nothing other than
35:31a meaningless accident of birth.
35:33It's an ideology that papers over feelings of inadequacy that tells you that no matter what you have or have
35:41not accomplished in your life,
35:42you're still better than someone, some group.
35:46For years, a cottage industry of political observers has contorted itself to obscure and occlude the obvious,
35:52that regardless of what others see in him, Trump's entire political career,
35:56from his embrace of birtherism to his hatred of birthright citizenship cannot be understood outside the context of his bitter,
36:04deep-seated racism.
36:07Trump is not profound.
36:09He has been the same person this whole time.
36:13The question is why so many others have refused to see what he has never bothered to hide.
36:20Joining us now is Jamel Bowie, columnist for The New York Times and co-host of the podcast,
36:25Unclear and Present Danger.
36:28Jamel, thank you very much for joining us tonight, and thank you for finding the words that I couldn't,
36:33I mean, literally for days, in dealing with the horror of this video.
36:40And I'm so glad that you've pointed out that there's nothing new here.
36:45He didn't change.
36:46Nothing has changed.
36:48This is always who he has been.
36:51That's right.
36:52I think that sometimes what gets lost in talking about Trump is that he made his mark on the political
36:57stage
36:58as a national political figure challenging the veracity of President Obama's birth certificate,
37:05claiming basically on the basis of Obama's race that he couldn't possibly be the legitimate president of the United States.
37:11That was the thing that got him in the national Republican politics in 2010 and 2011.
37:18And so, you know, this video that he posted on Friday is just like a natural, flows naturally from the
37:25kind of stuff he's been preoccupied with for 15 years, 16 years.
37:30And as you know, it flows naturally from prejudices displayed going back to the 1970s.
37:37You can read accounts of people who worked in his casinos who speak to, you know, him now wanting to
37:43have black employees on the floor,
37:45where they were invisible, when they were high rollers coming through, VIPs coming through.
37:49This is just who this guy is.
37:50And I think it's important to recognize that.
37:53Both to not like surprise and shock, but also to make clear the character of the kind of president that
38:00we have right now.
38:01You do make the point that there's a there's an element, a big element of jealousy in Donald Trump's view
38:08of Barack and Michelle Obama.
38:12I think that's right.
38:13I mean, this is a bit of psychologizing on my part, but I think it's quite obvious that Donald Trump,
38:19who does imagine himself or did imagine himself to be the kind of person who would obviously be president.
38:25If you watch interviews with him in the early 90s, in the early 2000s, he talks, you know, he's asked,
38:31would you ever run for president?
38:32And he talks about it as like, you know, maybe I will, maybe I won't.
38:35But obviously, of course, I could be president.
38:37And I have no doubt that it it galls Trump that Barack Obama, the black American who looks like the
38:48kind of people that Trump's family would have denied housing to back in the 70s, was able to ascend up
38:55that ladder.
38:56I think Trump understood Obama's rise as a real psychic injury and his response to Obama is as much about
39:05that as it is about prejudice.
39:07It's all it's all wrapped up together.
39:10Jamel Bowie, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
39:15And coming up, there was another special election on Saturday and Donald Trump lost big once again.
39:22That's next.
39:26Another special election, another big loss for Donald Trump's Republican Party.
39:31On Saturday, Democrat Chassidy Martinez won a Louisiana state house seat in a special election by a 24 point margin.
39:41The down ballot reports the result was, quote, a massive 37 point overperformance compared to the 2024 presidential result.
39:50Donald Trump carried the district by 56 to 43 margin in 2024.
39:56CBS News adds Republicans had seen it as a prime pickup opportunity since Mr.
40:03Trump won the district three times.
40:05Martinez, a former Iberville Parish councilwoman who focused her campaign on affordability and local issues, was outspent by Republicans three
40:15to one.
40:15Joining us now is Democratic Louisiana state representative elect the winner, Chassidy Martinez.
40:23Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
40:26Republicans outspending you three to one means they really believed they were going to take this seat.
40:32Oh, most definitely.
40:33And thank you so much for having me and giving me an opportunity to speak about the wonderful people of
40:39Iberville and Assumption.
40:40But you're definitely right.
40:42I was definitely outspent, but I wouldn't say outworked.
40:46So were you surprised by the margin that you won by in such a Trump supporting district?
40:54I was actually I felt very confident the entire time because I was bringing this back to we, the people,
41:02giving it back to my community members.
41:04I focused on local issues that we face every day.
41:07But I was really surprised with the outcome when the people spoke loud and clear.
41:13So obviously, most of the voters you were talking to during your campaign were Trump voters.
41:19What was it that you were delivering to them as a candidate that was appealing to them?
41:26The real issues that we face every day living here in Iberville and Assumption Parish.
41:32Affordability is huge right now.
41:34Insurance crisis.
41:35You know, I have people that own their homes and they're afraid of losing them due to the premiums of
41:41insurance.
41:42So, you know, that resonated with everyone.
41:45Everyone is hurting.
41:46So I kept those conversations to the kitchen table talks that we have every night, you know.
41:53And so it resonated with everyone.
41:56Are you surprised that everyone in Washington is looking at this election as something that tells the Democrats how they're
42:04going to do in November?
42:05I must say, I was pretty surprised.
42:08But, you know, keep your eyes on local elections.
42:12We're making a difference.
42:13And I think we're trying to wake people up to say, hey, let's get together.
42:17Let's come together and let's make a difference.
42:19My mom, you know, was a strong supporter of mine.
42:23And, you know, she truly raised me to meet people where they're at.
42:28I had a great family supporting me.
42:30I had a great community.
42:31And let me just tell you this, victory belongs to Iberville and Assumption.
42:37Louisiana State Representative-elect Chassidy Martinez, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
42:41Thank you so much.
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