00:00It is possible na temporarily detained kasi when you cross a border, sometimes in the Schengen area, they really do
00:08checks, sometimes spot checks kasi kapag nakapasok ka na.
00:13I am doubtful if a release is made after a temporary hold that will depend on the circumstances kasi hindi
00:24naman hahayaan ng bansa yung isang tao na in the first place walang proper travel documentation or entry permit into
00:33their country na magliwaliw o mag-roam around their own country.
00:40Kasi yun ngayong punto yun, dapat hindi siya makapasok kasi walang...
00:52Pilipinas, gising na. Isa pa rin po sa mainit na pinag-uusapan ngayon ng bayan, ang pagpapauwi kay Zaldico.
00:59Ngayong araw nakatakda ang pulong ni DOJ Acting Secretary Frederick Vida at kanyang counterpart sa Ministry of Justice sa Prague
01:05sa Czech Republic.
01:06Yan ang pag-uusapan, lilinawin hihimayin natin.
01:10On record sa unang hihimayin.
01:14At kayong umaga, mga kapalayan po natin, head ng International Criminal Law Program ng UP Institute of International Legal Studies,
01:21Attorney Michael Tew.
01:23Attorney Tew, good morning. Thank you for joining us this morning.
01:26Magandang umaga, Ivan, at sa lahat ng mga nanonood.
01:29Attorney, we are on record now.
01:31Simulan po natin kung paano tayo napuntos sa sitwasyong ito.
01:35In-anunso po kasi ng Pangulo noong April 16 na huli na si Zaldico.
01:40Ang post, exact words doon sa post.
01:42He is now detained in Prague after crossing into the Czech Republic without proper documentation and is currently in the
01:49custody of Czech authorities.
01:51Ngayon po, nagkakatalo sa terminology eh.
01:54Hindi daw arrested at hindi rin daw detained, but there is deprivation of liberty up to a certain degree.
02:00Please make us understand, attorney.
02:02Ano ba ang pagkakaiba ng mga terminong ito or are these merely play of words?
02:07They do have differences even in Philippine law, but I suppose that authorities are making that distinction because there are
02:16certain protections under certain European and Czech laws as well.
02:21So, arrest will mean that there is a proceeding that had led to that arrest, usually a criminal proceeding, and
02:31that might mean protections such as rights of the accused or fair trial protections.
02:36So, kaya iniingatan nila yung paggamit ng bird na yan.
02:39Whereas if detention or custody under immigration laws, that puts it within the realm of administrative action or the executive
02:49action.
02:49Okay. Without going into the truthfulness or accuracy of that statement, doon sa post na yun, ibase lang po natin
02:55sa batas, ano kaya ang maaring maging basis para ma-detain ang isang foreign national tulad ng sa sitwasyon ni
03:02Saldico?
03:03Right. So, detention at the border or deprivation of liberty to that extent, the basis of that might be no
03:12proper documentation, no travel documents,
03:15or permit to enter a particular country, no?
03:20Another one would be that they are in a particular list, no?
03:25So, an Interpol, for example, that already issued a red notice, for example, that a person is wanted in another
03:33jurisdiction or as a pending warrant of arrest,
03:36that might also be a basis of a temporary hold.
03:38Possibly, kaya, at that particular point, nakadetain nga o nahold nga, pero pinakawalan din eventually?
03:47It is possible na temporarily detained kasi when you cross a border, sometimes in the Schengen area, they really do
03:55checks, no?
03:56Sometimes spot checks kasi kapag nakapasok ka na.
04:00I am doubtful if a release is made after a temporary hold that will depend on the circumstances kasi hindi
04:11naman hahayaan ng bansa yung isang tao na in the first place walang proper travel documentation
04:18or entry permit into their country na magliwaliw o mag-roam around their own country kasi yun na yung punto
04:28yung dapat hindi siya makapasok kasi walang visa.
04:32Ang sinasabi ng DILG, all this time, meron daw Portuguese passports si Ko, na dinanay naman ng Portugal,
04:39and of course, sa Philippines naman, cancelled na rin ang passport niya.
04:44So, ano kanya ang ginagamit niyang passport?
04:48Right. I would think it's, nung pumasok siya, meron pa siyang travel documentation, may Philippine passport pa siya.
04:56This is only speculation, no? Kasi hindi ka talaga, I mean, that's the, I mean, all of us know that
05:01that's the first requirement.
05:03That's the first thing that immigration or border control will ask for, your travel document.
05:08So, I suppose that at the time that he entered the Schengen area, meron pa siyang travel document,
05:14and that would have been the Philippine passport, and it was only cancelled subsequently.
05:20So, ngayon po ang sitwasyon natin, Attorney Tew, nandun si DOJ Acting Secretary Vida for high-level coordination efforts.
05:29Ano ba yung mga possibilities? Ano yung mga remedies available to the Philippine government para ma-accompass natin itong objective
05:37na ito?
05:37Doon tayo sa first scenario, Attorney. Let us assume, nandun pa nga si Zaldico.
05:42Right. Assuming that he is there, merong possibly three paths, no?
05:48The first one is really just the enforcement of the immigration laws of the Czech Republic and the Schengen area.
05:56So, ito yung deportation or removal kung nandoon na siya sa jurisdiction ng Czech Republic because of no travel document.
06:06The other path is yung diplomatic negotiations.
06:11Itong usapan na ito is between two different sovereign countries.
06:17Ang isa ay state of nationality noong subject nitong kanilang negotiation.
06:24The other one is where the person is found, presumably, no?
06:28Okay.
06:28So, they can diplomatically negotiate on the transfer of this person,
06:33especially kung totoo talaga na walang Portuguese passport o walang nationality in the EU itong town ito.
06:40So, wala masyadong interest yung Czech Republic na panghawakan siya kasi walang protections na mag-a-apply.
06:47Except na lang kung merong claims na ilahad si Zaldico, for example,
06:56that might trigger the application of the European Convention on Human Rights.
07:01So, basically, human rights concerns na pwede niyang ilahad.
07:05Part of that diplomatic negotiation also is the ability of these two countries to negotiate for extradition on an ad
07:14hoc basis.
07:15So, kahit walang extradition treaty, they astute equal sovereigns.
07:20They can negotiate na for this purpose only.
07:23Ito yung ad hoc.
07:24Sa pagkakataon lamang na ito ay itatransfer yung costly kasi walang concern yung Czech Republic sa taong ito.
07:31The other possibility is yung naririnig natin from the TOJ na pag-invoke ng extradition provisions ng UN Convention Against
07:42Corruption.
07:44That convention does say na kapag walang extradition treaty yung dalawang bansa na signatory,
07:52pwede nilang gamitin yung extradition provisions in the UNCA to extradite.
07:57But again, that's still subject to both of their discretions.
08:03Ito ho ay assuming na walang gagawin si Saldico, pero presumably, siya po'y susubukan niyang pigilan ang mga efforts
08:15ito ng Pilipinas to bring him back.
08:17How straightforward are these remedies available to the Philippines, attorney?
08:23It's not going to be straightforward because we don't have visibility of Czech law kung ano yung protections.
08:32So, kasi Europe in general have protections against, for example, itong tinatawag natin na non-reformo,
08:41yung hindi mo pwedeng ibalik o i-return ng isang tao sa pinanggalingan niya kung merong well-founded fear of
08:49persecution, for example.
08:51Pero napakataas na bar niyan. Persecution, hindi prosecution.
08:55So, kailangan pinutuligsa siya. So, pwede niyang i-claim yun.
08:58Hindi din natin alam under Czech law kung ano pang mga protections nila na available to non-Czech citizens.
09:06Because usually may mga ganyan na protections.
09:09Even under Philippine Constitution, di ba, meron tayong mga protections on due process na hindi mo basta-basta mara-remove
09:16yung isang tao kapag walang pinagdaan ng determination, walang evidence.
09:22So, pwede din i-raise yun under Czech law. So, pwede siyang pumunta to a Czech court.
09:28Asylum? Yung ba yung asylum, attorney?
09:31Yes. Asylum, iba pa yun.
09:33Iba pa yung asylum. Okay.
09:35Oo.
09:35Na pwede rin gawin ni Saldico? Pwede rin siyang mag-apply ng asylum na makakapagpatagal din sa proseso ng pagpapauwi
09:42sa kanya?
09:43Correct. Pwede siyang mag-apply ng asylum. Although, again, may initial determination, may initial interview ang asylum usually na mag
09:52-screen, mag-sasala ng mga unfounded claims.
09:56So, kailangan doon palang mapatunayan niya na meron talaga siyang well-founded fear na papasok sa grounds.
10:03Kasi, ang grounds ng persecution, for example, would be race, religion, nationality, political opinion, at membership in a social group.
10:13Parang sa limang yun, hindi siya pasok. Bukod na lang sa kumakapag-presenta siya ng grave human rights violation na
10:21mangyayari sa kanya kapag in-referent siya.
10:24Attorney, dito naman tayo sa alternate scenario na inamin ni Secretary Vida na posible na wala na raw si Saldico
10:31sa Czech Republic.
10:32Ano naman ang mga pwedeng gawin ng Pilipinas kung ganito nga ang sitwasyon?
10:36In this case, limitado talaga. Kasi kung walang information at all kung nasaan siya, walang directang link na may make
10:47any jurisdiction.
10:48So, of course, magiging critical diyan yung participation ng Interpol na mag-i-issue ng notices sa mga membro niya.
10:59And therefore, everybody will be on the lookout for this person. Europe, for example, has technologies, including facial recognition, that
11:08might identify this person.
11:10Kung nabawa, pag-ala-agala siya sa isang lugar na mayroong gano'ng mga cameras. But that's very, very tricky
11:16and it's not a done deal.
11:19So, makumauli siya. So, in that case, talagang kailangan niya ng kooperasyon at information sharing from all relevant jurisdictions.
11:27Makakatulong kung mga lumabas yung red notice, attorney?
11:32Makakatulong kasi mas may basihan yung mga jurisdiction na maging alert at talagang mas aktibo na tumingin kung halimbawa yung
11:41taong nana yun ay nasa jurisdiction nila.
11:44All told, attorney, gaano karealistic yung sinabi ng Pangulo na we will bring him home, he will answer to the
11:51Filipino people?
11:53At some point, I think it will come to fruition kasi hindi ko alam kung gaano katagal yun. Hindi natin
12:00masasabi, no?
12:01Pero I think kasi in this case, kung walang nationality na iba si Zaldico at matagpuan siya, walang ibang bansa
12:10na may interest na panghawakan siya.
12:12Bukod nga doon kung makapagpresenta siya, kasi sa Europe, sobrang nilang protective of human rights.
12:18So, kapag makapagpresenta siya ng kaso na iba-violate, yung grave-violate ang yung kanyang human rights sa Pilipinas, maybe,
12:26but that's a very, very high bar.
12:28So, sa tingin ko, mauuwi naman siya at some point kung matagpuan siya.
12:32Hindi nga lang ganun kabilis, attorney.
12:35That's correct.
12:37Attorney Michael Chu, maraming maraming salamat for joining us this morning.
12:40Maraming salamat.
12:41Ang mga isyong pinag-uusapan, lilinawin, at hihimay natin on record sa ulang hirin.
13:05Salamat kapuso.
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