The Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets S01E04

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Transcript

00:00:08Some breaking news out of Long Island, New York.

00:00:12I'd like to report that we found human remains.

00:00:16Four bodies wrapped in burlap, dumped alongside Ocean Parkway.

00:00:20The so-called Gilgo Four were all petite women, all under 5'5", and they were all sex workers.

00:00:27Police excavate an apparent serial killer's dumping ground.

00:00:32The murders of two more women.

00:00:35Bringing the total number to six.

00:00:37Add to a major development in the Gilgo Beach murder case.

00:00:40A seventh murder.

00:00:42Find this killer before he strikes and hurts and murders someone that you love.

00:00:50And then, after 13 years, this bombshell drops.

00:00:55Major break in a cold case.

00:00:57A suspect now under arrest in connection to the unsolved Gilgo Beach murder.

00:01:02Rex Heuermann, a longtime resident of Massapequa Park, Long Island.

00:01:07The 59-year-old architect and father of two.

00:01:10Rex Heuermann is a demon that walks among us.

00:01:14This is like a modern-day horror story.

00:01:17The idea that the wife didn't know anything about what he was doing is hard to believe.

00:01:22They're telling me that my husband is alleged to be some horrific serial killer.

00:01:28No freaking way is this man going out soliciting sex from a sex worker, killing them, and dumping them on

00:01:36Gilgo Beach.

00:01:39He had a room specifically built in his basement that even his wife was not allowed to enter.

00:01:48We've recovered numerous electronic devices from the defendant, including laptops, smartphones, tablets.

00:01:54Investigators were able to forensically extract this planning document.

00:01:59He's getting drop cloths.

00:02:00He's getting booties for his shoes.

00:02:02Hairnets so that his hair won't get on the victim.

00:02:06Or so he hopes.

00:02:07Investigators say they matched hair fibers that were found at six of the seven crime scenes.

00:02:12They matched this DNA to Rex Heuermann and his family.

00:02:15Victoria, are you here to support your father?

00:02:18Here's the charges?

00:02:19It's so hard to even believe the fact that, you know, he's this sick killer.

00:02:25Prosecutors saying this.

00:02:27But my memory says this.

00:02:30Prosecutors in Suffolk County say they are ready to take accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann

00:02:35went to trial for the murders of seven women.

00:02:38Heuermann has pleaded not guilty.

00:02:40Rex would have to tell me face to face that he killed these girls for me to believe it.

00:02:53No, it's I don't believe my husband did this.

00:03:22I don't believe my husband did this.

00:03:39They could mark a pivotal moment to a case that's rocked the tri-state area for years.

00:03:45This morning, a possible change of plea for accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann.

00:03:51At 11 a.m., he is expected to confess to and admit to each of the murders in court.

00:03:56But his attorney not yet commenting.

00:03:58Heuermann is accused of killing seven female sex workers whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach

00:04:04and elsewhere on Long Island, New York, between 1993 and 2010.

00:04:09Heuermann's family, meanwhile, has not commented on the expected plea today.

00:04:26I just got to back up for a minute.

00:04:28Let her just get out of the car, please.

00:04:29After we have the proceedings today, we'll have statements to make.

00:04:32I'll talk to myself and Asa will make a statement, okay?

00:04:34Can you just say one thing today? Can you say one thing?

00:04:36There's nothing to say at this point.

00:04:37We don't know what's going to happen at 11 o'clock.

00:04:38Come on.

00:04:38Good morning, Laura.

00:04:39Good morning.

00:04:40Jody.

00:04:41How's everybody feeling?

00:04:44Went up all night.

00:04:45Asa, how are you feeling?

00:04:46She'll have something to say later on.

00:04:47Hey, Bob, right here.

00:04:48No fighting, Jimmy.

00:04:49Asa.

00:04:50You guys are going to make a statement after?

00:04:52After.

00:04:53Can't say anything before then.

00:04:54Do you know what's going to happen in the courtroom?

00:04:56Not until we get there.

00:04:57Okay.

00:04:57So we'll address it after it happens.

00:04:59At this point, it's pure speculation.

00:05:01Yeah, right here.

00:05:01Right here.

00:05:02You in line?

00:05:03What's up, Bob?

00:05:04What's going on?

00:05:04What was the question?

00:05:05Go ahead.

00:05:05How have they been processing this?

00:05:07They've been processing this for the past 33 months.

00:05:09We're prepared for whatever's going to go on in the courtroom today.

00:05:12Asa and Victoria are both prepared for that.

00:05:14And she has said consistently since day one.

00:05:17She wants to hear this and see this play out in the courtroom.

00:05:40Come to order, please.

00:05:41Remain seated at this time.

00:05:43Yeah.

00:05:43Number eight, Rex Ewerman, trial control.

00:05:51Coming out, judge.

00:05:59On the record, number eight, Rex Ewerman.

00:06:15Remind us who you are, and take us back to how you first got involved with Asa.

00:06:21My name is Bob Macedonio.

00:06:22I'm an attorney.

00:06:23I practice in the areas of criminal defense, matrimonial, and family court work.

00:06:31Rex, did you do it?

00:06:33Less than 48 hours after Rex Ewerman's arrest, my firm received a call from Asa Ewerman, who was Rex Ewerman's

00:06:39wife.

00:06:40Asa would like me to express she's going through a very difficult time.

00:06:43When we first were retained by Miss Ellera, the media frenzy was chaotic.

00:06:49Rex Ewerman's wife and the suspect's adult stepson was seen crying on the front porch.

00:06:54They were parked outside of her office, across the street.

00:06:57They followed her 24-7.

00:06:59They were stationed outside of her house for months on end.

00:07:03Asa, we're not blaming you for anything.

00:07:05No, I don't care.

00:07:06We feel very bad, and we want to know if you have anything to say.

00:07:12My office played every role for the family.

00:07:14We were therapists.

00:07:15We were counselors.

00:07:16We were financially helping them.

00:07:18There was no money.

00:07:20Rex was the sole financial supporter of the family.

00:07:24Victoria worked for Rex.

00:07:26Her job was obviously terminated when they arrested Rex and the office was closed.

00:07:31Awesome.

00:07:32Victoria, do you have anything to say about why you're here today?

00:07:35So you have a family completely turned upside down.

00:07:38And it basically says, the way you think you've been living for the past 30 years is not really what's

00:07:43been happening.

00:07:44So they were distraught.

00:07:48And I personally thought they needed professional help with the psychological issues that they're dealing with.

00:07:54So I brought in Allison Winters, who's a therapist that my partner and I have known for 20-plus years

00:07:59and works with a lot of our clients.

00:08:02We trust her.

00:08:05You're on the speaker.

00:08:07I'm Allison Winter.

00:08:09I'm a psychotherapist and I'm a family counselor.

00:08:12Bob Macedonio calls me up and asks,

00:08:15Have you ever heard of the Jilgo Beach murders?

00:08:17I said, yes, of course.

00:08:19And he said,

00:08:20I need you to take on the family.

00:08:23At this point, their friends wanted nothing to do with them.

00:08:26Their family wanted nothing to do with them.

00:08:29And they really needed someone they can speak with.

00:08:32I am grounded in family work.

00:08:36It's important for me to understand the dynamic they were living in as a daughter, as a wife, as a

00:08:43son.

00:08:44So Rex had to be a part of this process.

00:08:46So in other words, you see the whole family as an emotionally interconnected unit?

00:08:50Sure.

00:08:52Absolutely.

00:09:09After the second search of the Heuermann home and about a year after the arrest, Rex is done.

00:09:14He's tired.

00:09:16Rex shares with me, he had a conversation with his lawyer.

00:09:21He sat Mike Brown down and he said,

00:09:23I need to tell you that I'm guilty of all of this.

00:09:27And he said, I had to tell him certain things were his words.

00:09:32So in the spring of 2025, Rex Shuman, through his attorney, starts discussing a proffer agreement with the district attorney's

00:09:40office.

00:09:41And what a proffer agreement is, is a defendant on any criminal case will come over and meet with the

00:09:47detectives or the task force in a fashion that is protected to the extent anything that is said at that

00:09:54proffer would not be able to be used at a trial against Rex Shuman.

00:10:00The proffer sessions sets the table for plea negotiations to begin.

00:10:05And when we say plea negotiations, we're not talking a lightning of a sentence.

00:10:09You're doing life in jail without parole.

00:10:11That's not going to change.

00:10:12But there is a benefit to both sides to have a plea.

00:10:17You're sparing seven victims' families from hearing the gory, graphic details of what happened to their children, their sisters, their

00:10:24moms.

00:10:27The potential benefit to Rex would be you could kind of negotiate where you will be sentenced and how your

00:10:34sentence will be served.

00:10:35Also, the benefit to Rex is to protect the narrative of what his family hears.

00:10:41Whatever love they have left for him, I believe, would be erased if they heard the details of what he

00:10:48did to these young ladies.

00:11:02Come in.

00:11:03Hey.

00:11:04Hi.

00:11:05Asa, how are you?

00:11:07Good to see you.

00:11:09Here, have a seat.

00:11:11How are you?

00:11:11It's so good to see you.

00:11:12One of the conditions Rex had to take a plea was to meet with his wife and his daughter separately

00:11:18in a private meeting before making a public plea, and he would answer any questions.

00:11:24Nobody knows about this meeting.

00:11:26This was set up by Rex.

00:11:27He's been very supportive to the process of sitting with you so you can hear the truth from his mouth

00:11:36because you need that.

00:11:38I don't.

00:11:39To believe, to live, to grow, to heal, and you need to hear it from him.

00:11:45Yes.

00:11:45And he owes you that.

00:11:46He owes you that.

00:11:48He does owe you that.

00:11:48Yes.

00:11:49I want to hear the truth, period.

00:11:53I'm going to this meeting because I need to hear it.

00:11:57I want to hear it from his mouth.

00:11:59Okay.

00:11:59Because hearing him tell me, am I going to see it?

00:12:07We've worked so hard for this to happen.

00:12:09This is unprecedented.

00:12:11It is.

00:12:23Early on, when I recognized that as long as Rex was going to keep lying to his wife, there was

00:12:31no way I was going to be able to ground her because he has such a big influence on her.

00:12:37Anything Rex said overrode everything, so it wasn't denial.

00:12:40It was real to her.

00:12:41My husband's a family man.

00:12:43He's incapable of this.

00:12:44So I knew the more Rex fed her that, I'm innocent.

00:12:47She wouldn't be able to move on, and ultimately, that would have destroyed her existence.

00:12:52She needs to live and accept what she can, and she needs to move forward.

00:12:58We've been working for a very long time, two years and one month, to get to this moment.

00:13:05I'm scared.

00:13:07There's no doubt about that.

00:13:09I'm nervous.

00:13:12But I have questions to ask, and I'm going to need him to answer them for me.

00:13:18Number one is, did you kill any of these women?

00:13:22Then there would be, okay, how many of these women did you kill?

00:13:32I need to hear from him whether he did this or not.

00:13:37I can't process things I don't know.

00:13:40What we'll process is to see the truth, hear the truth.

00:13:45The hardest part of this whole story is that it's possible that I was married for 29 years to a

00:13:53serial killer.

00:14:13What is the next step for the prosecution of Blancus Barnes case goes?

00:14:16Well, I mean, you're in the end of discovery, we're entering trial phase.

00:14:21I mean, you talk about the number of witnesses, the number of documents in this case.

00:14:25It's a dizzying amount of information.

00:14:28Without a doubt, the Long Island serial killer case and the trial of Rex Superman is going to be the

00:14:33biggest in Long Island history.

00:14:35We'll have over 100 witnesses coming in from 15 different states.

00:14:40There's never been so much interest in controversy surrounding a case.

00:14:47I mean, Gloria Allred showed up to advocate for the victim's families.

00:14:51The courthouse door should never be shut to any woman who is victimized by gender violence.

00:14:58It is long overdue to provide justice for vulnerable women who are missing and murdered.

00:15:04We gave the defense well over 100 terabytes of information alone.

00:15:09And if you took a terabyte and you printed out all that information, it would take you about 6.5

00:15:15million pages.

00:15:16So we have well over 120 of those terabytes.

00:15:20It's going to be one bombshell after the next.

00:15:23All these questions we have, everything we've been speculating about, if there is a trial, they will have to be

00:15:28addressed.

00:15:29Everything we don't know about, all the evidence they have that we're imagining they have, we're going to find out.

00:15:47Rex Heumann's attorneys are pushing to hold as many as five trials.

00:15:51Trial one, the first three of the Gilgo Four discovered, Amber Costello, Megan Waterman and Melissa Bartholomew.

00:15:57A second trial for Maureen Brainerd Barnes and third, fourth and fifth trials for Jessica Taylor, Sandra Costillo and Valerie

00:16:03Mack.

00:16:03The danger of having count after count, victim after victim in the same trial is that smoke, there's fire mentality.

00:16:12They shouldn't be tried together.

00:16:34I want to have a seat.

00:16:48long day yes it's not every day you get to sit with a serial killer

00:16:54what was the hardest part for you to hear well i put a wall

00:16:59what do you mean she called him mr heuerman so his response was oh are we formal now

00:17:07mrs l are up did you feel you were sitting across the table from a stranger

00:17:14no when he started talking he started feeling like that's the rex i know

00:17:18but i didn't want to see that one i wanted to see the one i needed to see

00:17:22paint a picture for us of what it was like to walk into that room

00:17:27he looked very nervous very very nervous and um i said to him so mr heuerman

00:17:37i understand that you are

00:17:41uh confessing to me on these murders can you please tell me how many of these women did you kill

00:17:47he said eight eight was there any hesitation when he said eight no he just told me

00:17:57he said he killed eight women eight eight who was the eighth because he's charged with seven i didn't ask

00:18:05he sat and told you he said i wasn't home during all of them

00:18:13were any of them killed in the house he said yes they were killed in his room downstairs

00:18:18all except one he said that he killed sandra castilla

00:18:23in the dodge that was his first murder before i married him

00:18:34i said uh they said that you dismembered some bodies did you dismember them and he said yes i did

00:18:41it

00:18:42there are certain things certain questions that i believed others i'm not a hundred percent sure

00:18:49he said he never really intentionally

00:18:52tried to kill these women he says he just killed them

00:18:56no but he doesn't he doesn't

00:18:59know

00:19:00how

00:19:00okay

00:19:01he killed them

00:19:02is that's what you heard

00:19:03no is

00:19:04i didn't hear that

00:19:06what did you hear he said the first one i had no idea i was going to kill at that

00:19:11time

00:19:11right i just randomly did it

00:19:13but the others

00:19:15he planned to kill them

00:19:17i mean some women he he had sex with and he didn't kill them

00:19:21and he said he said that some women i had sex with and i did not kill

00:19:25knowing the wrecks you know since you're 18 years old

00:19:29do you feel he expressed any remorse

00:19:35no

00:19:36no

00:19:37okay

00:19:38how did you feel about his tears

00:19:42i think the tears were for me

00:19:46not for the victims

00:19:47no

00:19:49do you believe

00:19:52rex got into a relationship with you

00:19:54married you

00:19:57because he was able to control

00:19:59and manipulate you

00:20:00no

00:20:02no

00:20:03what did he say about his first wife

00:20:06remember

00:20:07he said she was crazy

00:20:08and he couldn't

00:20:10go ahead

00:20:11right and he couldn't control her

00:20:13he couldn't control her

00:20:13so think about that

00:20:15just sit with that for a minute right

00:20:16my first wife

00:20:17she was crazy

00:20:18i i couldn't put up with her

00:20:19i couldn't control her

00:20:20what did you say do you remember

00:20:22i said

00:20:23um

00:20:24why did you choose me

00:20:26yeah

00:20:26he said he

00:20:29loved me

00:20:30do you believe he loved you

00:20:34yes i do

00:20:36do you think that he has any remorse

00:20:38for destroying

00:20:40your family's life

00:20:48yes i saw the tears

00:20:54he lived a double life

00:20:56i saw the man

00:20:58that worked hard

00:21:00took care of his family

00:21:02but

00:21:05anyone

00:21:06one who takes a life

00:21:11i don't think that they deserve to die

00:21:14i think that they deserve to be forced to face the reality of what they've done

00:21:23all of these girls

00:21:25that were found

00:21:26on gilgo beach

00:21:27they were

00:21:28somebody's

00:21:29daughter

00:21:30they were somebody's sister

00:21:33they were girls

00:21:47awesome

00:21:48yes

00:21:49here we are

00:21:5126 months

00:21:52after the arrest

00:21:53do you now believe

00:21:55that your husband

00:21:56is the gilgo beach

00:21:57serial killer

00:22:02yes i believe he's the gilgo beach

00:22:06killer

00:22:30the peace and beauty of fire island was shattered today by the grisly discovery of two human legs

00:22:35minus a body

00:22:36police have no clues as to who the legs discovered at davis park belong to

00:22:40investigators say the legs with red painted toenails are definitely female

00:22:45but that's all they know so far

00:22:50today authorities identified one of the victims in the gilgo beach murders

00:22:54her remains found nearly three decades ago off of fire island

00:22:59we were able to identify fire island jane doe as karen vergata

00:23:04who was 34 years old at the time of her disappearance

00:23:07vergata disappeared in february 1996

00:23:10she was 34 living in new york city

00:23:13and authorities said like other gilgo beach victims a sex worker

00:23:16her legs were found in davis park

00:23:20her skull is found at gilgo

00:23:24where rex huerman's other alleged victims were disposed of like trash

00:23:29karen vergata's stepsister has said i'm glad she's found it's nice to have closure we always wondered what happened

00:23:38she also explained vergata's father once hired a private investigator to try and find her

00:23:44but died never knowing the fate of his daughter

00:23:47still unknown how or why vergata was killed and more importantly whether accused serial killer

00:23:53rex huerman was involved in her death

00:23:56it's important to note that there are no charges uh at this time

00:24:00uh we are going to continue to work this particular case

00:24:03as we did the gilgo four investigation

00:24:07let's talk about the eighth victim

00:24:10karen vergata is the question mark

00:24:12we know that she was murdered sometime between

00:24:16february valentine's day of 1996

00:24:18sure and when she was discovered in april of 1996

00:24:23we also know that rex huerman

00:24:27married asa ellera

00:24:30on april 13th

00:24:321996

00:24:33in sweden

00:24:35now asa and chris travel ahead

00:24:39without rex huerman to sweden

00:24:41two weeks later

00:24:43rex flew in to join them

00:24:46the timeline indicates rex huerman stays behind

00:24:51murders karen vergata

00:24:53then flies to sweden to join his pregnant wife

00:24:57his adopted son

00:24:59and marries asa ellera

00:25:02how did he explain that to you

00:25:06am i allowed to talk about this

00:25:07i don't know if he'll ever be indicted for the eighth

00:25:12i don't it's not public the eighth because they don't have evidence

00:25:16no it's a part of the plea deal

00:25:17he will admit to eight murders

00:25:20okay

00:25:22i would say that the killing

00:25:24of karen vergata

00:25:27before he was getting married

00:25:28was a pivot point to make him more comfortable

00:25:31in future killings

00:25:34i don't think he

00:25:35cared

00:25:36that he was about to go get married to his pregnant wife

00:25:40he divides the worlds

00:25:42he said they're two separate entities

00:25:45he doesn't regulate emotions like you and i

00:25:47so when he was doing what he was doing

00:25:49was he thinking of his family no

00:25:52was that a stressor

00:25:54subconsciously absolutely

00:25:56did he recognize it at the time no

00:25:58in his mind it was time that asa will be away

00:26:01planning their wedding

00:26:02so he was free to do what he wanted

00:26:03and fulfill his own fantasy

00:26:06i think that was pivotal

00:26:08to making it easier and easier to move forward

00:26:10and it became more of a game

00:26:12inside his mind

00:26:14prepping

00:26:15timing

00:26:17playtime

00:26:18clean up

00:26:19it all became

00:26:20a methodical

00:26:23second life

00:26:25so to speak

00:26:31rex has said that the only one that he didn't plan

00:26:34was the first one

00:26:36so that would mean

00:26:37that starting with karen vergata

00:26:40that was planned

00:26:41and everyone was planned thereafter

00:26:43no

00:26:44that's not the way i understand it

00:26:47planned or unplanned

00:26:48no no

00:26:49he said

00:26:50i asked him

00:26:51i asked him

00:26:52hold on

00:27:01hello

00:27:04how are you jill

00:27:06i'm doing much better

00:27:09okay

00:27:10so the

00:27:13so uh

00:27:14what

00:27:18yes

00:27:19yes

00:27:20we're on speaker

00:27:21so i have one question for you

00:27:27i'd like to know

00:27:28when was the first planned event

00:27:36i had gone

00:27:37in hand with a wedding dress

00:27:39to sweden

00:27:43you were meeting me on the last week

00:27:46of the vacation

00:27:47i took a three-week vacation that year

00:27:52she flew down

00:27:53she flew down how long before you

00:27:57two

00:28:01and what year was that

00:28:04right

00:28:08rex

00:28:08yes

00:28:09um

00:28:10just so you understand

00:28:12what we're trying to do

00:28:13is help asa process through

00:28:15the two separate lives

00:28:18sometimes there are stressors in your life

00:28:21that trigger things

00:28:23to do things

00:28:28so we're doing a little live therapy session here

00:28:32she was about approximately two months pregnant

00:28:36was that stressful

00:28:38knowing that you're having a baby coming

00:28:51can you share with her to help her understand

00:28:54just emotionally maybe

00:28:56like what

00:28:56what you were feeling

00:28:58what you were going through

00:28:59when you were home

00:29:03alone

00:29:05before you flew out to marry her

00:29:09i understand what you're trying to do

00:29:12um

00:29:15i just don't have a specific date

00:29:17that i can say about anything

00:29:20about what happens

00:29:20you have one minute left

00:29:23uh one minute to go

00:29:26so anyway

00:29:28um

00:29:29i didn't want to scare you off

00:29:31because i get a little confused sometimes

00:29:35i've known you since 1981

00:29:38i i think

00:29:39if you haven't scared me off by now

00:29:43i know

00:29:46i know that

00:29:51in her heart do i think she'll ever let him go

00:29:54no because she didn't know him that way

00:29:56she never saw that side of him

00:29:59she only saw the man

00:30:01who she believed was saving her

00:30:03from a life of trauma

00:30:12when Asa was born

00:30:13we have to realize

00:30:14nobody wanted her

00:30:16they adopted her into an american family

00:30:19she never felt wanted or loved

00:30:22she always felt less than

00:30:23she always felt different

00:30:26Asa comes from years of abuse

00:30:27years of neglect

00:30:29she went from one trauma to the next

00:30:31to the next

00:30:35when i think back to my childhood

00:30:38my father was always working

00:30:40he would end up traveling

00:30:43you know for like

00:30:44two three months at a time

00:30:46a lot of my friends had

00:30:49older brothers

00:30:50and the older brothers

00:30:52were always keeping an eye

00:30:53on their little sisters

00:30:54but no one was watching out

00:30:56for me

00:30:57i'm sixteen years old

00:30:59i was out

00:31:01one day

00:31:02there was a bunch of boys

00:31:04on a street corner

00:31:05hanging out

00:31:06and one of them

00:31:08pulled me behind my house

00:31:11and molested me

00:31:15i couldn't get away

00:31:20i quit school

00:31:22not too long after that

00:31:26i also tried to commit suicide

00:31:31not something i'm proud of

00:31:37so if there's anybody that knows anything about what bad men are capable of doing

00:31:42that would be me

00:31:46when i first met Asa

00:31:48she was broken

00:31:49it's crying from guilt

00:31:53guilt that

00:31:56i wasn't a good enough wife

00:31:59in total shock

00:32:00what would

00:32:01anyone do

00:32:03if they're in my shoes

00:32:05denial

00:32:06and i go to bed at night

00:32:09and i wake up the next morning

00:32:10saying to myself

00:32:11girl it didn't happen

00:32:13your husband

00:32:14rex heuerman

00:32:15did not do this

00:32:18i've noticed her cognitive dissonance

00:32:20Asa was placing reality

00:32:23onto what she needed to believe

00:32:25he's a family man

00:32:27period

00:32:28i'm convinced that the person

00:32:31they're looking for

00:32:32is not

00:32:32a family man

00:32:37rex was the kind of person

00:32:39that you could call

00:32:40even if you just wanted to talk

00:32:44and that's it

00:32:45he was

00:32:47the one person i could count on

00:32:49when i needed something

00:32:51and he was there

00:32:57charming rex comes in

00:32:59he says

00:33:00move into my home

00:33:02she went with what was safe

00:33:04because she needed to survive

00:33:10she never challenged him

00:33:11he would say something

00:33:13and she would just take it in

00:33:14and believe it

00:33:15and when i would ask her why

00:33:18because he's my husband

00:33:20and that's an honest answer of hers

00:33:23i do believe there's a part of asa

00:33:26that will never accept

00:33:29that he murdered these women

00:33:31she would rather

00:33:33create something

00:33:34that works for her

00:33:35in her mind

00:33:36than something that's more real

00:33:38and that's a process

00:33:39in itself

00:33:40believing that she can have

00:33:43any healthy relationship

00:33:44with rex in the future

00:33:45is delusional thinking

00:33:47we need to work on that

00:33:50she clearly grieves

00:33:51differently than victoria

00:33:52so now

00:33:54victoria has to hear the truth

00:33:57she wants closure

00:33:59whatever that looks like

00:34:00she's ready for this to be done

00:34:15ever since my dad was arrested

00:34:18it has become a combination of

00:34:21humiliation

00:34:22confusion

00:34:23sadness

00:34:25and uncertainty

00:34:26all in a whole bowl

00:34:29of like fruit salad

00:34:30or something

00:34:31just all those things

00:34:33nobody really thinks

00:34:35about the daughter

00:34:35of the serial killer

00:34:37there is actually artwork

00:34:40produced by victoria

00:34:41people are just

00:34:43making up stories about it

00:34:44this horrifying monster

00:34:46with blood

00:34:46eating on the breasts

00:34:49of this woman

00:34:50they were writing my story

00:34:51right in front of us

00:34:52on the news

00:34:53your hair

00:34:54your dna

00:34:54whatever it is

00:34:55is on the bodies

00:34:56why aren't you involved

00:34:58all i knew was

00:35:00everything i knew

00:35:01was gone

00:35:02victoria do you have anything

00:35:03to say about why you're here today

00:35:05we're not going to turn this

00:35:06into some kind of sideshow

00:35:10victoria has told me

00:35:12that she and her father

00:35:13have a very strong relationship

00:35:15her protective fantasies

00:35:17about the father

00:35:18that she knows

00:35:19are very real to her

00:35:22my initial observations

00:35:24of victoria

00:35:26she was in total shock

00:35:31completely blindsided

00:35:33and hurt

00:35:34i feel like i definitely do

00:35:36jump between

00:35:37depression and anger

00:35:39a lot

00:35:39my self-esteem and self-worth

00:35:41is just

00:35:42tanked

00:35:43like why am i even here anymore

00:35:47she's definitely traumatized by it

00:35:49it took me months

00:35:51to feel anything

00:35:53about this case

00:35:54like this

00:35:55this stuff does not

00:35:56you know

00:35:57hit just like that

00:35:59it takes a while

00:36:00to actually set it

00:36:01so you know

00:36:02like right now

00:36:04i just don't have you

00:36:07her brain processes it

00:36:09on her terms

00:36:11and she needed to do it

00:36:12her way

00:36:20about 26 months after

00:36:22the arrest

00:36:23i got a call from

00:36:24allison saying that

00:36:25he wanted to meet me

00:36:29he wanted to sit face to face

00:36:31and you admit his crimes

00:36:36and give us time

00:36:38before he confessed

00:36:40to the world

00:36:52walking into that room

00:36:54um

00:36:57i saw my dad the man

00:36:59not necessarily the monster

00:37:03they uh

00:37:04set up his handcuffs to the chair

00:37:06and everything

00:37:09what was the first question

00:37:11you asked your father

00:37:23what was the first question

00:37:25you asked your father

00:37:29something that was really

00:37:30important to me

00:37:31and really just how i'm going

00:37:33to get past this was

00:37:33were any of them

00:37:34how many were there

00:37:35he said eight

00:37:38um

00:37:39he did tell me

00:37:40the first murder

00:37:41wasn't planned

00:37:43in 1993

00:37:45he killed

00:37:46sandra castilla

00:37:47in his car

00:37:49at the time

00:37:49do you remember that car

00:37:52um

00:37:52i remember

00:37:54as a kid

00:37:54uh

00:37:55he had a

00:37:56um

00:37:56a dodge ram charger

00:37:59did you ever ride

00:38:00in that dodge ram

00:38:01i did

00:38:02as a kid

00:38:03we did ride

00:38:04in the ram charger

00:38:08so besides sandra castilla

00:38:10he did say that they were all

00:38:12in

00:38:12the rest were in the house

00:38:14you know in the

00:38:15in the kill room

00:38:18and he said

00:38:19karen valerie

00:38:20and jessica

00:38:21were

00:38:23um

00:38:26murdered and mutilated

00:38:27and dismembered

00:38:28in

00:38:29in that room

00:38:33and my dad has confirmed

00:38:35that one of them

00:38:36was killed

00:38:36in

00:38:37in their bed

00:38:43i also asked him

00:38:44about his planning document

00:38:45that was created in 2000

00:38:47before valerie mac's murder

00:38:50my dad told me

00:38:52he first created that document

00:38:55as a way to try to distract himself

00:38:59from having to actually do the act itself

00:39:02if he you know

00:39:03puts it on paper

00:39:05and acts out in his head

00:39:06that

00:39:06that would

00:39:08curb the zone

00:39:09you know

00:39:09curb the urge

00:39:10on the planning document

00:39:13under problems

00:39:15he writes photos

00:39:17question mark

00:39:18and under supplies

00:39:20he writes

00:39:20photo film

00:39:21um he said he took

00:39:23two pictures

00:39:26only two

00:39:26out of all eight murders

00:39:28he only took

00:39:28two pictures

00:39:31but nobody's seen

00:39:32these pictures

00:39:34he destroyed them

00:39:35promptly afterwards

00:39:37they were

00:39:38long destroyed

00:39:40did you ever ask him

00:39:41why

00:39:41he did those

00:39:42horrific things

00:39:43he said that

00:39:45his demons

00:39:45got to him

00:39:46when he was in

00:39:47a certain opportunity

00:39:48or there was a certain

00:39:49catalyst in front of him

00:39:51that would

00:39:51start to create

00:39:52these dark urges

00:39:55it was a sickness

00:39:57I asked him

00:39:58I'm like

00:39:59well

00:39:59did you see them

00:40:00as somebody's daughter

00:40:02he told me

00:40:03he didn't even see them

00:40:04as human

00:40:11but did you ask him

00:40:12I'm your daughter

00:40:15did you ever think of

00:40:16me

00:40:16when you were doing this

00:40:18yes

00:40:20he said

00:40:20he doesn't think

00:40:21about the family

00:40:22he never thought

00:40:24about me

00:40:25when he was doing it

00:40:27they were completely

00:40:28kept separate

00:40:29and he never let

00:40:30the two

00:40:31cross

00:40:33so I'm like

00:40:34okay

00:40:34he's a loving dad

00:40:35and the serial killer

00:40:37how

00:40:38how did he manage

00:40:39that the two

00:40:40never crossed

00:40:43seven women

00:40:44have been murdered

00:40:45in this house

00:40:48is hard

00:40:49to stomach

00:41:15I had a lot

00:41:15I had like a whole

00:41:16almost two years

00:41:17just mentally

00:41:19prepared me for this

00:41:21the uncertainty

00:41:22of not knowing

00:41:23was a lot

00:41:24harder than

00:41:25eventually finding out

00:41:31with everything

00:41:32that has happened

00:41:32how am I supposed

00:41:33to just go back

00:41:33to normal

00:41:34you know

00:41:36so

00:41:38I do accept

00:41:39his guilt

00:41:40and the crimes

00:41:41that he has

00:41:43the crimes

00:41:44that he has done

00:41:49what are you doing

00:41:50I am

00:41:53lighting some

00:41:54some sage

00:41:54down here

00:41:56uh

00:41:58what does the sage do

00:41:59uh

00:42:00just to cleanse

00:42:01the area

00:42:02of

00:42:03after

00:42:03after hearing

00:42:05that some of the

00:42:06victims were killed

00:42:07killed down here

00:42:09especially in

00:42:10in this room

00:42:13um

00:42:17I

00:42:18in here

00:42:18yeah

00:42:19I just want to

00:42:20clear out

00:42:22the

00:42:25energy

00:42:25of it all

00:42:27and send

00:42:28you know

00:42:28and hopefully

00:42:29the

00:42:30any linger

00:42:31you know

00:42:31any

00:42:32any of their

00:42:33spirits

00:42:34are pure

00:42:34they can

00:42:35you know

00:42:35finally rest

00:42:39she was just

00:42:40very kind hearted

00:42:41you know

00:42:41she made mistakes

00:42:42who doesn't

00:42:43she didn't deserve

00:42:44this

00:42:44nobody deserves

00:42:45this

00:42:45she's just a

00:42:46beautiful

00:42:47loving

00:42:48human being

00:42:49and I

00:42:50I miss her

00:42:50terribly

00:42:53it kind of

00:42:53makes sense

00:42:54now

00:42:54after hearing

00:42:55that some of

00:42:57them were killed

00:42:57here

00:42:57there was just

00:42:58some moments

00:42:58where just

00:43:00the energy

00:43:01there was just

00:43:02really

00:43:03you were feeling

00:43:03it

00:43:04yeah

00:43:04it brings me

00:43:05happiness to know

00:43:06that he will not

00:43:07be having access

00:43:08to any other

00:43:09girls

00:43:10it brings me

00:43:11peace to know

00:43:12that my sister

00:43:13is laying where

00:43:13she should be

00:43:14with my family

00:43:15and that

00:43:16if my parents

00:43:17were here

00:43:18and my sister

00:43:18was here

00:43:21she would say

00:43:22thank you

00:43:24the lingering

00:43:25anger

00:43:25the lingering

00:43:27emotions

00:43:28everything

00:43:28and just

00:43:29kind of

00:43:29just here

00:43:32um

00:43:32I remember

00:43:33as a kid

00:43:34I would watch

00:43:35tv

00:43:35play

00:43:36video games

00:43:37in that area

00:43:38and that

00:43:38is about

00:43:39maybe 10 feet

00:43:41from where

00:43:42those women

00:43:43were mutilated

00:43:44or murdered

00:43:46that image

00:43:47was in my head

00:43:47of just

00:43:48you know

00:43:48I was watching

00:43:49tv right

00:43:50where he

00:43:51did

00:43:52you know

00:43:52he did

00:43:53all these

00:43:53things

00:43:58it's him

00:44:00you want to get

00:44:01Asa

00:44:01y'all bring her

00:44:02down

00:44:06individual

00:44:06at

00:44:07Suffolk County

00:44:08correctional

00:44:08facility

00:44:09this call

00:44:10is subject

00:44:10to recording

00:44:11and monitoring

00:44:15hey there

00:44:17hey how are you

00:44:18I'm good

00:44:19I'm good

00:44:20I'm standing

00:44:21here with your

00:44:22daughter

00:44:28she's hanging

00:44:29in there

00:44:29we were just

00:44:29talking about

00:44:30what it was

00:44:31like

00:44:32for her

00:44:33and for you

00:44:35after the

00:44:36meeting

00:44:51sure

00:44:54is

00:44:55Asa

00:44:55coming down

00:44:58are you

00:44:58allowed to

00:44:59call back

00:44:59because I know

00:45:00you're going to

00:45:00run out of

00:45:00time

00:45:04thank you

00:45:05let's head

00:45:10upstairs

00:45:14hold on

00:45:16camera

00:45:17please

00:45:19ready guys

00:45:20sure

00:45:25we're

00:45:26extrobed

00:45:27an incarcerated

00:45:28individual

00:45:29at

00:45:29this call

00:45:30is subject

00:45:31to recording

00:45:31and monitoring

00:45:34hey there

00:45:35hi

00:45:37hello

00:45:39we even have

00:45:40Christopher next

00:45:40to us

00:45:42how are you

00:45:43doing

00:45:43I'm doing

00:45:44alright

00:45:49so we're all

00:45:50sitting here

00:45:51together

00:45:51in the den

00:45:53hey John

00:45:56how are you

00:45:56doing dear

00:45:57I'm doing

00:45:58okay

00:46:02did he provide

00:46:03clarity

00:46:04you needed

00:46:05to hear it

00:46:06from him

00:46:07yes and no

00:46:08I mean

00:46:09clarity

00:46:10comes from

00:46:11much more

00:46:11than just

00:46:12him saying

00:46:12something

00:46:13you know

00:46:13but him

00:46:15saying it

00:46:15now

00:46:16it helps

00:46:17my mind

00:46:18because

00:46:19now that

00:46:20I know

00:46:20then it's

00:46:22easier for me

00:46:23to move

00:46:23forward

00:46:29say something

00:46:30go ahead

00:46:31hold on

00:46:31Christopher's

00:46:32next to me

00:46:32he wants

00:46:33to talk

00:46:35I don't

00:46:36know what

00:46:36else to

00:46:37say

00:46:37but

00:46:39don't you

00:46:40need to

00:46:40do

00:46:40what

00:46:41you need

00:46:42to take

00:46:42charge

00:46:43because

00:46:44you know

00:46:44how to

00:46:45talk

00:46:46you know

00:46:50how to

00:46:50talk about

00:46:51how you

00:46:51feel

00:46:51right

00:46:53you start

00:46:56great idea

00:46:57because

00:46:57you know

00:46:59the other

00:46:59two sitting

00:47:00there

00:47:00are going

00:47:01to sit

00:47:01there

00:47:02and stare

00:47:02at each

00:47:02other

00:47:03for at least

00:47:03a good

00:47:0420 minutes

00:47:04before either

00:47:05one of them

00:47:06say anything

00:47:08right

00:47:08that about

00:47:10summing up

00:47:11why was it

00:47:12important for

00:47:13you Rex

00:47:13to sit

00:47:14down with

00:47:14them

00:47:16and answer

00:47:17their questions

00:47:41is that what

00:47:42you guys felt

00:47:43do you feel

00:47:44that

00:47:44that he

00:47:45was receptive

00:47:46to your

00:47:46questions

00:47:47yeah

00:47:47yes

00:47:49good

00:47:51were you

00:47:52surprised

00:47:52by any

00:47:53of the

00:47:53questions

00:47:53that they

00:47:54asked

00:47:56well

00:47:57Victoria's

00:47:58question

00:47:59about

00:47:59communion

00:48:02that took

00:48:03me by

00:48:04surprise

00:48:14I figured

00:48:15it'd take

00:48:15my

00:48:16opportunity

00:48:16to ask

00:48:17when I

00:48:17you know

00:48:17when I

00:48:18had it

00:48:19he said

00:48:20I wasn't

00:48:20born yet

00:48:21when

00:48:21Sandra

00:48:21Castilla

00:48:23and

00:48:23Karen

00:48:24Vergato

00:48:24were

00:48:24murdered

00:48:25I was

00:48:26three

00:48:26when

00:48:26Valerie

00:48:27Mack

00:48:27was

00:48:27murdered

00:48:27I was

00:48:30six

00:48:30when

00:48:31Jessica

00:48:31Taylor

00:48:31was

00:48:31murdered

00:48:32I was

00:48:33ten

00:48:34when

00:48:34Maureen

00:48:34Brainer

00:48:35Barnes

00:48:35was

00:48:35murdered

00:48:37I was

00:48:38twelve

00:48:38when

00:48:38Melissa

00:48:39Bartholome

00:48:39was

00:48:40murdered

00:48:41and

00:48:42I

00:48:43was

00:48:43thirteen

00:48:43when

00:48:44Megan

00:48:44Waterman

00:48:45and

00:48:46Amber

00:48:47Castilla

00:48:47were

00:48:47murdered

00:48:55why

00:48:56do

00:48:56you

00:48:56think

00:48:56he

00:48:57stopped

00:48:57killing

00:48:58Rex

00:48:58told

00:48:59me

00:48:59that

00:49:00toward

00:49:00the

00:49:01last

00:49:01two

00:49:01killings

00:49:02he

00:49:02knew

00:49:02he

00:49:02wasn't

00:49:03getting

00:49:03the

00:49:03same

00:49:03gratification

00:49:04he

00:49:05wasn't

00:49:06receiving

00:49:06the

00:49:07adrenaline

00:49:07rush

00:49:07and

00:49:08by

00:49:08his

00:49:09last

00:49:09kill

00:49:09he

00:49:10knew

00:49:10he

00:49:10was

00:49:10going

00:49:10to

00:49:10stop

00:49:11and

00:49:12I

00:49:12looked

00:49:12at

00:49:12him

00:49:12and

00:49:13I

00:49:13said

00:49:13well

00:49:13I

00:49:13begged

00:49:13to

00:49:13differ

00:49:14a

00:49:14little

00:49:14bit

00:49:14look

00:49:15at

00:49:15the

00:49:15timing

00:49:16Shannon

00:49:17Gilbert

00:49:17had

00:49:17gone

00:49:17missing

00:49:18and

00:49:19that

00:49:19family

00:49:19they

00:49:20kept

00:49:20that

00:49:20case

00:49:21alive

00:49:21until

00:49:22someone

00:49:22paid

00:49:22attention

00:49:24and

00:49:24because

00:49:24of

00:49:25that

00:49:25his

00:49:25killings

00:49:26were

00:49:26found

00:49:26so

00:49:27it

00:49:27became

00:49:27so

00:49:28sensational

00:49:28and

00:49:28it

00:49:29became

00:49:29so

00:49:29newsworthy

00:49:30that

00:49:32subconsciously

00:49:32or

00:49:32consciously

00:49:34that's

00:49:34when he

00:49:35decided

00:49:35to stop

00:49:35killing

00:49:36I

00:49:37think

00:49:37he

00:49:37was

00:49:37very

00:49:38concerned

00:49:38about

00:49:38getting

00:49:38caught

00:49:39and

00:49:39I

00:49:39think

00:49:40he

00:49:40knew

00:49:40he

00:49:40was

00:49:40going

00:49:40to

00:49:40get

00:49:41caught

00:49:41and

00:49:42it's

00:49:43been

00:49:4314

00:49:43years

00:49:48do

00:49:48you

00:49:48think

00:49:48it's

00:49:49possible

00:49:49that

00:49:50your

00:49:50dad

00:49:50murdered

00:49:51more

00:49:51victims

00:49:53I

00:49:54don't

00:49:54know

00:49:57but

00:49:59one was

00:50:00too

00:50:00many

00:50:01one

00:50:02was

00:50:02too

00:50:03many

00:50:17take

00:50:17us

00:50:18back

00:50:18to

00:50:18the

00:50:18beginning

00:50:18the

00:50:19first

00:50:20time

00:50:20you

00:50:20came

00:50:20face

00:50:21to

00:50:21face

00:50:21with

00:50:22Rex

00:50:22Heuerman

00:50:23you

00:50:24walk

00:50:24into

00:50:24a

00:50:24private

00:50:25room

00:50:25and

00:50:25you

00:50:25see

00:50:26a

00:50:26six

00:50:26foot

00:50:27four

00:50:27270

00:50:28pound

00:50:29serial

00:50:30killer

00:50:31sitting

00:50:31there

00:50:32handcuffed

00:50:33shackled

00:50:37so

00:50:37I

00:50:37walk

00:50:38into

00:50:38the

00:50:38jail

00:50:38I

00:50:39go

00:50:39through

00:50:40security

00:50:41Rex

00:50:42is

00:50:42already

00:50:43sitting

00:50:43there

00:50:46and

00:50:46he

00:50:46was

00:50:47absolutely

00:50:49analyzing

00:50:49me

00:50:50in his

00:50:50mind

00:50:53he

00:50:54looked

00:50:54at

00:50:54me

00:50:55and

00:50:55he

00:50:56said

00:50:56to

00:50:56me

00:50:56like

00:50:57he

00:50:57was

00:50:57special

00:50:58have

00:50:59you

00:50:59ever

00:50:59sat

00:50:59with

00:51:00a

00:51:00serial

00:51:00killer

00:51:00before

00:51:01they

00:51:02know

00:51:02his

00:51:02body

00:51:03language

00:51:03and

00:51:04I

00:51:04know

00:51:04where

00:51:04it's

00:51:04coming

00:51:05from

00:51:05and

00:51:05it's

00:51:05coming

00:51:05from

00:51:06the

00:51:06narcissism

00:51:07so

00:51:07I

00:51:08looked

00:51:08right

00:51:08at

00:51:08him

00:51:08and

00:51:09I

00:51:09paused

00:51:10and

00:51:11I

00:51:11said

00:51:12I

00:51:12have

00:51:12not

00:51:13but

00:51:15you're

00:51:15all

00:51:15the

00:51:15same

00:51:16I

00:51:16said

00:51:16you're

00:51:17not

00:51:17that

00:51:17special

00:51:19and

00:51:19he

00:51:19looked

00:51:20at

00:51:20me

00:51:20and

00:51:20he

00:51:20just

00:51:20kind

00:51:20of

00:51:21froze

00:51:23and

00:51:23then

00:51:24eventually

00:51:24you

00:51:24build

00:51:24a

00:51:25rapport

00:51:25you

00:51:25build

00:51:25trust

00:51:26you

00:51:27build

00:51:27a

00:51:28connection

00:51:30and

00:51:31finally

00:51:31it

00:51:31happened

00:51:33he

00:51:33looked

00:51:34at

00:51:34me

00:51:35right

00:51:35in the

00:51:35face

00:51:36right

00:51:36in the

00:51:36eyes

00:51:37and

00:51:37he

00:51:37turned

00:51:37his

00:51:37whole

00:51:38body

00:51:38toward

00:51:38me

00:51:40and

00:51:40he

00:51:40goes

00:51:40do

00:51:41you

00:51:41have

00:51:41any

00:51:41idea

00:51:42what

00:51:43it's

00:51:43like

00:51:43to

00:51:43want

00:51:43to

00:51:43kill

00:51:44someone

00:51:45to

00:51:45hurt

00:51:46to

00:51:47kill

00:51:47to

00:51:48play

00:51:48God

00:51:48and

00:51:48end

00:51:49somebody's

00:51:49life

00:51:50you

00:51:51don't

00:51:51know

00:51:51what

00:51:51that's

00:51:52like

00:51:54after

00:51:55that

00:51:55Rex

00:51:56is

00:51:56sharing

00:51:57everything

00:51:57with

00:51:57me

00:51:58details

00:51:58about

00:51:59the

00:51:59crimes

00:51:59his

00:52:00mind

00:52:01how

00:52:01he

00:52:01thinks

00:52:02so

00:52:03the

00:52:03deeper

00:52:03that

00:52:03gets

00:52:04the

00:52:04darker

00:52:04that

00:52:05gets

00:52:06did

00:52:07he

00:52:07talk

00:52:07about

00:52:08what

00:52:08it

00:52:08is

00:52:08that

00:52:08brings

00:52:09him

00:52:09to

00:52:09that

00:52:09point

00:52:10where

00:52:10he

00:52:10decides

00:52:11to

00:52:11kill

00:52:11the

00:52:12moment

00:52:13he

00:52:13chooses

00:52:13to

00:52:13take

00:52:14a

00:52:14life

00:52:14why

00:52:15he

00:52:15does

00:52:15not

00:52:16know

00:52:16I've

00:52:16asked

00:52:16I've

00:52:17asked

00:52:17the

00:52:17why

00:52:18they

00:52:18really

00:52:19don't

00:52:19have

00:52:19answers

00:52:19in

00:52:20those

00:52:20moments

00:52:21they

00:52:21don't

00:52:22he

00:52:22doesn't

00:52:22know

00:52:22why

00:52:23the

00:52:24only

00:52:24thing

00:52:24that

00:52:24he's

00:52:25able

00:52:25to

00:52:25really

00:52:26come

00:52:26up

00:52:26with

00:52:26is

00:52:27that

00:52:27he

00:52:28gets

00:52:28to

00:52:28know

00:52:29them

00:52:29as

00:52:29people

00:52:30if

00:52:30he

00:52:31gets

00:52:31to

00:52:31know

00:52:31someone

00:52:31he

00:52:32gets

00:52:32vulnerable

00:52:32he's

00:52:32not

00:52:32in

00:52:33total

00:52:33control

00:52:34so

00:52:34if

00:52:34he

00:52:34felt

00:52:35he

00:52:35was

00:52:35losing

00:52:35a

00:52:35sense

00:52:36of

00:52:36control

00:52:36what

00:52:36would

00:52:37he

00:52:37do

00:52:38he

00:52:38would

00:52:38pursue

00:52:39with

00:52:39a

00:52:39kill

00:52:40which

00:52:40was

00:52:40planned

00:52:41because

00:52:41he

00:52:41set

00:52:42up

00:52:42his

00:52:42house

00:52:42for

00:52:42it

00:52:42prior

00:52:43so

00:52:43he

00:52:43met

00:52:44them

00:52:44once

00:52:44he

00:52:44got

00:52:45to

00:52:45know

00:52:45them

00:52:45had

00:52:45a

00:52:45transaction

00:52:46set

00:52:47up

00:52:47a

00:52:47second

00:52:47time

00:52:48and

00:52:49had

00:52:49his

00:52:49four

00:52:49day

00:52:49plan

00:52:51day

00:52:51one

00:52:52was

00:52:52the

00:52:52prep

00:52:52which

00:52:53he

00:52:53cleaned

00:52:53the

00:52:53entire

00:52:54basement

00:52:56and

00:52:56he

00:52:56would

00:52:57prepare

00:52:59for

00:52:59his

00:52:59time

00:53:00with

00:53:00them

00:53:00in

00:53:00the

00:53:01house

00:53:02the

00:53:03second

00:53:03day

00:53:03he's

00:53:04with

00:53:04the

00:53:04victim

00:53:05which

00:53:06he

00:53:06says

00:53:06was

00:53:06always

00:53:07very

00:53:07enjoyable

00:53:07and

00:53:08he

00:53:08was

00:53:08very

00:53:08kind

00:53:10until

00:53:10they

00:53:10were

00:53:10going

00:53:11to

00:53:11be

00:53:11murdered

00:53:12and

00:53:12then

00:53:12a

00:53:12lot

00:53:13of

00:53:13it

00:53:13was

00:53:13the

00:53:13post

00:53:13mortem

00:53:15his

00:53:15playtime

00:53:17and

00:53:17that

00:53:18night

00:53:18was

00:53:18the

00:53:19dump

00:53:20the

00:53:21third

00:53:21day

00:53:21was

00:53:21his

00:53:21clean

00:53:22up

00:53:22day

00:53:23he

00:53:23had

00:53:24to

00:53:24take

00:53:24every

00:53:25single

00:53:25thing

00:53:25he

00:53:25used

00:53:27tools

00:53:28tarps

00:53:29clothes

00:53:31everything

00:53:32and

00:53:32he

00:53:33would

00:53:33dispose

00:53:33of it

00:53:34so

00:53:34there

00:53:34was

00:53:34in

00:53:35his

00:53:35mind

00:53:35no

00:53:35evidence

00:53:37he

00:53:37would

00:53:37say

00:53:38well

00:53:38day

00:53:38four

00:53:38is

00:53:38in

00:53:38case

00:53:39of

00:53:39emergencies

00:53:40i

00:53:40just

00:53:41need

00:53:41the

00:53:41extra

00:53:41day

00:53:42it's

00:53:43a

00:53:43four

00:53:43day

00:53:43high

00:53:45it's

00:53:45a

00:53:46four

00:53:46day

00:53:46adrenaline

00:53:49rush

00:53:51and

00:53:52then

00:53:52he'd

00:53:52fly

00:53:52out

00:53:52to

00:53:53his

00:53:53family

00:53:55and

00:53:56over

00:53:56time

00:53:56he

00:53:56would

00:53:57try

00:53:57to

00:53:57perfect

00:53:57his

00:53:58process

00:54:00exactly

00:54:03he

00:54:03told me

00:54:03that he

00:54:04would

00:54:04take

00:54:04a

00:54:04stopwatch

00:54:05before

00:54:06he

00:54:06would

00:54:06dump

00:54:06a

00:54:07body

00:54:07at

00:54:07Gilgo

00:54:07beach

00:54:10and he

00:54:11went from

00:54:11his first

00:54:11kill

00:54:122 minutes

00:54:13and 32

00:54:14seconds

00:54:16to his last

00:54:17kill at

00:54:18Gilgo

00:54:18he would

00:54:19hit the

00:54:19timer

00:54:20dump the

00:54:21body

00:54:21get back in

00:54:22the truck

00:54:22and hit the

00:54:23timer

00:54:23again

00:54:2537 seconds

00:54:27he's

00:54:28he's so

00:54:28meticulous

00:54:28detail

00:54:30oriented

00:54:31pathological

00:54:32control

00:54:33domination

00:54:33he had to

00:54:34beat himself

00:54:35at his own

00:54:35game

00:54:36clearly he

00:54:37enjoyed

00:54:38killing

00:54:38and it

00:54:39became

00:54:39a sickness

00:54:40for him

00:54:41it became

00:54:41an outlet

00:54:42it became

00:54:43an obsession

00:54:48session

00:54:48session 12

00:54:50today

00:54:50Rex

00:54:51opened up

00:54:51about his

00:54:52childhood

00:54:52his

00:54:53impressionable

00:54:54years

00:54:55Rex

00:54:56doesn't

00:54:56remember

00:54:57much

00:54:57of his

00:54:58childhood

00:54:58but some

00:54:59of those

00:54:59memories

00:55:00are starting

00:55:00to return

00:55:01as we

00:55:02talk about

00:55:02it more

00:55:02and more

00:55:04how did

00:55:05he describe

00:55:05his father

00:55:05he was

00:55:07not

00:55:07approachable

00:55:07very

00:55:08domineering

00:55:09very

00:55:09controlling

00:55:10loud

00:55:11he was

00:55:12always

00:55:12being

00:55:12yelled

00:55:13at

00:55:13screamed

00:55:13at

00:55:13he did

00:55:14nothing

00:55:14right

00:55:16he was

00:55:17a man

00:55:18of

00:55:19integrity

00:55:20he spent

00:55:21time with

00:55:22his children

00:55:23whenever dad

00:55:24was home

00:55:25they would

00:55:25be in the

00:55:26garage

00:55:26hanging out

00:55:27with dad

00:55:28he fought

00:55:29in world war

00:55:30ii

00:55:30he was a

00:55:31co-pilot

00:55:33one of

00:55:34Rex's

00:55:35favorite tv

00:55:35shows

00:55:36is

00:55:36Hogan's

00:55:37Heroes

00:55:39it reminded

00:55:40him

00:55:41of

00:55:41his father

00:55:42look at

00:55:43me

00:55:44i only

00:55:44work

00:55:44here

00:55:46airplanes

00:55:47pilots

00:55:49Rex had

00:55:50always wanted

00:55:51to join

00:55:51the air force

00:55:52but he

00:55:53couldn't

00:55:53because he

00:55:54was dyslexic

00:55:57so he

00:55:58was disappointed

00:56:01he died

00:56:02when Rex

00:56:03was 12

00:56:04he had

00:56:05been

00:56:06ill

00:56:06but it

00:56:07was a

00:56:08sudden

00:56:08death

00:56:09for

00:56:09everybody

00:56:10his dad

00:56:11was very

00:56:12critical

00:56:12of him

00:56:13and i

00:56:13do

00:56:13believe

00:56:14it

00:56:14manifested

00:56:15into

00:56:16why

00:56:16he's

00:56:17very

00:56:18methodical

00:56:19ocd

00:56:21obsessive

00:56:22on certain

00:56:22things

00:56:23because he

00:56:24was criticized

00:56:24so much

00:56:25the tabloids

00:56:27ran a story

00:56:28that Rex

00:56:28was a

00:56:29mama's

00:56:29boy

00:56:29tell me

00:56:30about

00:56:31Dolores

00:56:31Heuermann

00:56:32was she

00:56:33hard on

00:56:33him

00:56:33Dolores

00:56:35was not

00:56:35hard

00:56:36on Rex

00:56:37at all

00:56:38okay

00:56:38she had

00:56:39five

00:56:39children

00:56:41every

00:56:41single

00:56:42one of

00:56:42them

00:56:42had a

00:56:43uniqueness

00:56:43to them

00:56:44and she

00:56:45she was

00:56:46proud of

00:56:46them

00:56:47how did he

00:56:48describe his

00:56:49mother

00:56:52not available

00:56:55his mother

00:56:56wasn't emotionally

00:56:57available for

00:56:58him

00:56:59she was

00:57:00self-absorbed

00:57:00and detached

00:57:01from any

00:57:02emotions that

00:57:03he had

00:57:04or any grief

00:57:05in regards to

00:57:05his own dad

00:57:07he says he

00:57:08pretty much

00:57:09raised himself

00:57:10dad passes

00:57:11away

00:57:11mom's trying

00:57:12to run a

00:57:14house with

00:57:14five children

00:57:15it was chaos

00:57:16in the house

00:57:19so Rex

00:57:19didn't have

00:57:20much of a

00:57:20voice

00:57:22he wasn't

00:57:23really heard

00:57:23as a child

00:57:25and I go

00:57:26what did

00:57:26you do

00:57:27he held

00:57:28it all in

00:57:29he goes

00:57:30I keep

00:57:30it here

00:57:33when did

00:57:34Rex first

00:57:35tell you

00:57:35he began

00:57:36having

00:57:36dark thoughts

00:57:38so Rex

00:57:39in later

00:57:40high school

00:57:40shares with

00:57:41me he

00:57:41starts having

00:57:42thoughts that

00:57:42he knew

00:57:43weren't

00:57:43healthy

00:57:43he did

00:57:45not know

00:57:45what they

00:57:46were

00:57:47per se

00:57:47he did

00:57:48not know

00:57:49how violent

00:57:50they were

00:57:51but he knew

00:57:52his thinking

00:57:53wasn't right

00:57:55Rex knew

00:57:56there was a

00:57:56piece of him

00:57:57missing

00:57:57he didn't

00:57:58know what

00:57:58that piece

00:57:59was

00:57:59he couldn't

00:58:00put it

00:58:01into words

00:58:03so he

00:58:04started

00:58:05pornography

00:58:07books on

00:58:08death

00:58:08he became

00:58:08very fascinated

00:58:09with dissecting

00:58:10a human body

00:58:12and the sex

00:58:13and the pornography

00:58:14and the human

00:58:15body

00:58:15and all of

00:58:15that

00:58:16in a mind

00:58:17that's not

00:58:18healthy

00:58:18is a very

00:58:19dangerous

00:58:19recipe

00:58:21there was

00:58:22one session

00:58:22in particular

00:58:23he told me

00:58:24about a book

00:58:25it's called

00:58:25death scenes

00:58:26it was hard

00:58:27to look at

00:58:29it's bodies

00:58:30mutilated

00:58:31heads cut

00:58:31off

00:58:32arms cut

00:58:33off

00:58:34hundreds and

00:58:35hundreds of

00:58:35wounds

00:58:36everywhere

00:58:36pure mutilation

00:58:39that's what

00:58:40was fascinating

00:58:40him

00:58:41that's what

00:58:41was feeding

00:58:42his mind

00:58:43there was

00:58:44no healthy

00:58:45sexual

00:58:47experiences

00:58:47in his life

00:58:48maybe he

00:58:49witnessed

00:58:49an unhealthy

00:58:51events

00:58:52that he

00:58:52wasn't able

00:58:53to process

00:58:53right

00:58:54sex and

00:58:55violence

00:58:55went hand

00:58:55in hand

00:58:56for him

00:58:56somewhere

00:58:57subconsciously

00:58:58it goes

00:58:59one layer

00:59:00one layer

00:59:00one thought

00:59:01feeds another

00:59:02thought

00:59:02feeds another

00:59:03thought

00:59:03feeds another

00:59:03thought

00:59:04deeper

00:59:04and deeper

00:59:05to more

00:59:06and more

00:59:06evil

00:59:07he couldn't

00:59:08put the brakes

00:59:09on it

00:59:09he had no

00:59:09control of

00:59:10stopping it

00:59:10it overrides

00:59:12him

00:59:13he kept it

00:59:14all inside

00:59:15fed his own

00:59:16addiction

00:59:16his own

00:59:17demons

00:59:20and it led

00:59:21him to a

00:59:21place

00:59:22he hurt

00:59:23other people

00:59:25brutally

00:59:27violently

00:59:28his outlet

00:59:29was

00:59:35to kill

00:59:47dear mr

00:59:48douglas

00:59:49i hope

00:59:50this message

00:59:50finds you

00:59:51well

00:59:51john douglas

00:59:53is this

00:59:53legendary

00:59:54profiler

00:59:55he wrote

00:59:55this

00:59:56seminal

00:59:56book

00:59:57called

00:59:58mindhunter

00:59:58and that

00:59:59rex

01:00:00human

01:00:00referenced

01:00:01mindhunter

01:00:01several times

01:00:02in his

01:00:03planning document

01:00:05i'm currently

01:00:06working with

01:00:06rex

01:00:07human

01:00:08often referred

01:00:09to as the

01:00:10gilgo beach

01:00:11serial killer

01:00:12mr human

01:00:13has studied

01:00:14your books

01:00:15in fact

01:00:15he and i

01:00:16discussed

01:00:17mindhunter

01:00:18often

01:00:19we're trying

01:00:20to get to

01:00:21the root

01:00:21cause

01:00:22of his

01:00:22fantasies

01:00:23which created

01:00:24his urges

01:00:24to kill

01:00:25he can't

01:00:26explain why

01:00:27he did

01:00:27this

01:00:28is he a

01:00:29true psychopath

01:00:29i don't

01:00:31know

01:00:32i know

01:00:33there's

01:00:33chemical

01:00:33component

01:00:34a genetic

01:00:35component

01:00:35family

01:00:36component

01:00:37there's a

01:00:38little bit

01:00:38of everything

01:00:39overlapping

01:00:39at once

01:00:41i would love

01:00:42to talk to

01:00:43you more

01:00:43and get

01:00:44your expert

01:00:45opinion

01:00:45on this

01:00:46topic

01:00:51allison

01:00:52how are you

01:00:53how are you

01:00:54welcome

01:00:55come on

01:00:55in

01:00:55thank you

01:00:56thank you

01:00:56for having

01:00:57it's great

01:00:57for coming

01:00:58here

01:00:58thank you

01:00:58i have

01:00:59your book

01:01:00i do

01:01:01i have

01:01:01i was wondering

01:01:02who bought

01:01:02my book

01:01:02that was

01:01:03me

01:01:04what you

01:01:05were able

01:01:05to do

01:01:06was amazing

01:01:06getting to

01:01:07interview

01:01:07the

01:01:08not only

01:01:09the subject

01:01:09in the case

01:01:10but the

01:01:10family

01:01:11i've never

01:01:11done that

01:01:12before

01:01:12i usually

01:01:13i'll interview

01:01:13the subject

01:01:14maybe sometimes

01:01:15he's already

01:01:15incarcerated

01:01:16and the victims

01:01:17they deal

01:01:17with victims

01:01:17of violent

01:01:18crime

01:01:18but this

01:01:19you're really

01:01:20you know

01:01:21it's great

01:01:21that's why

01:01:22i was so

01:01:22excited to

01:01:23come speak

01:01:23with you

01:01:24because it

01:01:25is a

01:01:25different

01:01:25perspective

01:01:26i'm grounded

01:01:27in family

01:01:28systems

01:01:28so my

01:01:29goal is

01:01:30to take

01:01:30trauma

01:01:31of families

01:01:32whatever the

01:01:32trauma is

01:01:33and to

01:01:35help them

01:01:35navigate

01:01:36to hopefully

01:01:37a healthier

01:01:37place

01:01:38so they

01:01:39can move

01:01:39on

01:01:39this specific

01:01:40family

01:01:41asa

01:01:42is so

01:01:42loyal

01:01:43so

01:01:44dependent

01:01:44on rex

01:01:45where

01:01:46i realized

01:01:47very early

01:01:48on that

01:01:48i needed

01:01:49him

01:01:49to help

01:01:50me help

01:01:51her

01:01:51because

01:01:51the denial

01:01:52was thick

01:01:53but asa

01:01:54always says

01:01:55to me

01:01:55how on earth

01:01:56can he call

01:01:57me to make

01:01:58sure i got

01:01:58to vermont

01:01:59safely

01:01:59call me

01:02:00three to four

01:02:00times a day

01:02:01show up

01:02:01at work

01:02:01live his

01:02:02daily life

01:02:04how does

01:02:05he jump

01:02:05from one

01:02:06mind

01:02:06to the

01:02:07other

01:02:07minds

01:02:11they

01:02:12do not

01:02:12identify

01:02:13with these

01:02:13victims

01:02:14like

01:02:14you

01:02:15and i

01:02:15i would

01:02:15do

01:02:15in fact

01:02:16i used to

01:02:16have

01:02:16major

01:02:17arguments

01:02:17with law

01:02:18enforcement

01:02:19don't polygraph

01:02:20do not

01:02:20polygraph

01:02:21these guys

01:02:22these crimes

01:02:23are justifiable

01:02:24in their mind

01:02:25so you're not

01:02:26going to get

01:02:26any reaction

01:02:27out of them

01:02:28interesting

01:02:30i was involved

01:02:31in the

01:02:31btk

01:02:32investigation

01:02:33first in

01:02:341979

01:02:35and then

01:02:35in 1984

01:02:36did the

01:02:37analysis

01:02:37very similar

01:02:38uh

01:02:39you know

01:02:40with rex

01:02:40here

01:02:41children

01:02:41each lived

01:02:42in the

01:02:43same

01:02:43small

01:02:43house

01:02:44each

01:02:44house

01:02:45was

01:02:46originally

01:02:47their parents

01:02:48home

01:02:48which is

01:02:49very very

01:02:49unique

01:02:50btk

01:02:51he surfaced

01:02:52somewhere in

01:02:53his late

01:02:5320s too

01:02:54very similar

01:02:55types of

01:02:56backgrounds

01:02:56the fantasies

01:02:57but

01:02:58if i would

01:02:59have

01:02:59dennis

01:02:59raider

01:03:00here

01:03:00and rex

01:03:01here

01:03:01i believe

01:03:02that

01:03:03raider

01:03:03would be

01:03:04jealous

01:03:04of rex

01:03:07why is

01:03:08that

01:03:08the ultimate

01:03:09with these

01:03:10subjects

01:03:11is to keep

01:03:11the victim

01:03:12for a period

01:03:12of time

01:03:13in the fantasy

01:03:14they have

01:03:15them locked

01:03:15up

01:03:16they have

01:03:16them in

01:03:16a room

01:03:17and that

01:03:17was a

01:03:18strong

01:03:18fantasy

01:03:19with

01:03:19dennis

01:03:20raider

01:03:20but he

01:03:21didn't have

01:03:21that room

01:03:22he didn't

01:03:22have that

01:03:22location

01:03:24so here

01:03:24you have

01:03:24rex

01:03:25he has

01:03:25the place

01:03:26to do

01:03:26whatever

01:03:27he wants

01:03:27to do

01:03:27carry out

01:03:28his

01:03:28sadistic

01:03:28fantasies

01:03:30i don't know

01:03:31if he told you

01:03:31any of this

01:03:32about fantasy

01:03:33how they get

01:03:33heavy into fantasy

01:03:34because that's

01:03:35that's how

01:03:35it all begins

01:03:37with fantasy

01:03:38everything works

01:03:40everything is perfect

01:03:41in the fantasy

01:03:41and

01:03:42they have

01:03:43what we call

01:03:43preferential victim

01:03:46preferential victim

01:03:46may be

01:03:47a certain

01:03:48size

01:03:49a petite

01:03:49color

01:03:51so i'm

01:03:52so i'm

01:03:52i'm on

01:03:52the hunt

01:03:52and these

01:03:53predators

01:03:53do hunt

01:03:54they hunt

01:03:55looking for

01:03:56victims that

01:03:56they're sure

01:03:57they can get

01:03:57away with

01:03:59you look into

01:03:59a crowd

01:04:00differently than

01:04:01he would look

01:04:01into a crowd

01:04:02he is the lion

01:04:03on a serengeti

01:04:04plane

01:04:04he's not going

01:04:05to go after

01:04:05the water buffalo

01:04:07that's strong

01:04:08and healthy

01:04:09the lion is

01:04:10looking at

01:04:10weakness

01:04:12so these guys

01:04:13like rex

01:04:13are the lion

01:04:14on a serengeti

01:04:15plane

01:04:19in speaking

01:04:19with rex

01:04:20he always said

01:04:21to me

01:04:21and he still

01:04:22says consistently

01:04:23it's not about

01:04:24the women

01:04:24it's not the

01:04:26women

01:04:26which leads me

01:04:27to believe

01:04:28and we talk

01:04:28about

01:04:29it's

01:04:29clearly he's

01:04:31detached from

01:04:31the person

01:04:32that he's

01:04:33mutilating

01:04:33but he gets

01:04:34a lot of

01:04:35self-gratification

01:04:36post-mortem

01:04:38he could say

01:04:38what he wants

01:04:39but you know

01:04:40it's still

01:04:41sadistic

01:04:44it's the

01:04:44violence

01:04:45that really

01:04:45turns him on

01:04:46he does it

01:04:47downstairs

01:04:49in the

01:04:50kill room

01:04:50which was

01:04:51his old

01:04:51bedroom

01:04:53where he keeps

01:04:54a lot of

01:04:54his childhood

01:04:55memories

01:04:55it's a

01:04:56comfort zone

01:04:57for him

01:04:58just like

01:04:58the disposal

01:04:59sites

01:04:59are a

01:05:00comfort zone

01:05:00there has

01:05:00to be

01:05:01some

01:05:01attachment

01:05:01there

01:05:05he put

01:05:06these victims

01:05:06through hell

01:05:07and it

01:05:07wasn't a

01:05:08swift kill

01:05:08it didn't

01:05:09have to be

01:05:09a swift

01:05:10kill

01:05:10because no

01:05:11one was

01:05:12home

01:05:12no one

01:05:12could hear

01:05:13the screams

01:05:13and yells

01:05:14coming from

01:05:14his cellar

01:05:17is he a

01:05:17psychopath

01:05:18is my question

01:05:19definitely a

01:05:20psychopath

01:05:20when he's

01:05:21doing this

01:05:21these killings

01:05:23he has to

01:05:23be

01:05:24what's going

01:05:25through his

01:05:25mind

01:05:26has to be

01:05:27something

01:05:28related

01:05:28early on

01:05:29in his life

01:05:30to a trauma

01:05:30his life

01:05:31I wouldn't

01:05:32be surprised

01:05:32there's a

01:05:33sexual component

01:05:34of this

01:05:35something happened

01:05:36to him

01:05:36very very early

01:05:37in his life

01:05:41there's

01:05:41something there

01:05:42so you feel

01:05:43that he knows

01:05:43the answers

01:05:44to a lot

01:05:45of the why

01:05:45he's just

01:05:46not ready

01:05:47to verbalize

01:05:48it

01:05:49yeah

01:05:49they know

01:05:50they know

01:05:50the answers

01:05:51something went

01:05:52on there

01:05:52you know

01:05:53with him

01:05:53sexually

01:05:54something

01:05:55had to do

01:05:55that

01:05:57so the notion

01:05:58that Rex

01:06:00created a kill

01:06:01room in his

01:06:02childhood room

01:06:03is there an

01:06:04overlap there

01:06:05subconsciously

01:06:06or consciously

01:06:07I think with

01:06:08the kill room

01:06:09it started

01:06:10as a teenager

01:06:11I could see him

01:06:12as a teenager

01:06:12beginning a lot

01:06:14of these fantasies

01:06:15in his teen years

01:06:16may have been

01:06:17fueled by

01:06:18pornography

01:06:22that kind of stuff

01:06:23starts very very

01:06:23young

01:06:24doesn't always have

01:06:24to start

01:06:25in the mid 20s

01:06:27and he says

01:06:27it started young

01:06:28in your fantasy

01:06:29you're writing

01:06:30a script

01:06:30the script

01:06:32is being written

01:06:32through your fantasy

01:06:34this stuff

01:06:35has to fester

01:06:36fester

01:06:36at an early

01:06:38early age

01:06:38in those teens

01:06:39when he was down

01:06:40in his room

01:06:41down there

01:06:41going through

01:06:42puberty

01:06:42his fantasies

01:06:44I'm sure

01:06:44were different

01:06:45kind of fantasies

01:06:46than a normal

01:06:47kind of teenager

01:06:47and he'll admit

01:06:48to that

01:06:48that would fit

01:06:50and it would be

01:06:51violent

01:06:51a violent

01:06:52kind of tendency

01:06:53are they ever

01:06:54free of that urge

01:06:55no

01:06:56they never get free

01:06:57there's no

01:06:58the urge

01:06:58is never going

01:06:59to keep reminding

01:07:00it's not a sexual

01:07:01thing

01:07:02it's anger

01:07:04power

01:07:04control

01:07:04oh I believe

01:07:05that

01:07:05I can see

01:07:06that with Rex

01:07:06yeah

01:07:07with insecurity

01:07:08some of the most

01:07:09gregarious serial killers

01:07:10you'd ever want to meet

01:07:11like say

01:07:12like a Ted Bundy

01:07:12have strong

01:07:13feelings of inadequacies

01:07:15how can this

01:07:16inadequate nobody

01:07:17become a somebody

01:07:18to get

01:07:19to regain this power

01:07:20and control

01:07:22I can go out

01:07:23and kill

01:07:25and he didn't

01:07:26start killing

01:07:26according to him

01:07:28until he was 30

01:07:29he's admitted to 8

01:07:30do we believe that

01:07:31am I naive

01:07:32to believe that

01:07:33I don't believe

01:07:34he started killing

01:07:35at 30

01:07:36there may be cases

01:07:38that he does not

01:07:39want to admit to

01:07:40because in those states

01:07:41like where he has

01:07:42a house

01:07:42I believe

01:07:43in South Carolina

01:07:44and I've worked

01:07:45many cases down there

01:07:45they got the death penalty

01:07:46and they use it

01:07:49in South Carolina

01:07:50where Rex Uerman

01:07:51has property

01:07:52and his brother

01:07:52has property

01:07:54investigators were curious

01:07:55about a missing teenager

01:07:57Aaliyah Bell

01:07:58and also a woman

01:07:59Julianne Bean

01:08:00who was 36

01:08:0218 year old

01:08:03Aaliyah Bell

01:08:04went missing

01:08:04back in 2014

01:08:05Bell disappeared

01:08:06around 20 miles

01:08:08from property

01:08:08owned by Uerman

01:08:09in Julianne Bean's case

01:08:11her daughter

01:08:12saw a picture

01:08:13of Rex Uerman

01:08:14and said

01:08:14that's the guy

01:08:15that I last saw

01:08:16with my mother

01:08:17she recognized

01:08:18him right away

01:08:19she said

01:08:19that was the last

01:08:20person she ever saw

01:08:21with her mom

01:08:23I think he has

01:08:25a lot of hidden

01:08:25secrets here

01:08:26he's a malignant

01:08:27narcissistic

01:08:28sadistic

01:08:29psychopathic

01:08:30serial killer

01:08:31had he not been

01:08:32apprehended

01:08:32I think he would

01:08:33kill more

01:08:43Tomorrow will be

01:08:44the first time

01:08:45seeing Rex

01:08:46in a public courtroom

01:08:47since his private

01:08:48confession

01:08:49and almost certainly

01:08:51the last

01:08:51before he tells

01:08:52the whole world

01:08:53what you already

01:08:54know

01:08:55with the stage

01:08:56set for justice

01:08:57to finally be served

01:08:59is there now

01:09:00room for forgiveness

01:09:03Victoria

01:09:04do you forgive

01:09:05your father

01:09:07I do

01:09:09you know

01:09:10I do

01:09:11I do forgive him

01:09:12I can't move forward

01:09:13unless I do

01:09:15I don't think

01:09:16it's in my place

01:09:18to forgive him

01:09:21I'm not the one

01:09:22who's judging him

01:09:24God is

01:09:28so he would need

01:09:30to get that

01:09:31from

01:09:32God

01:09:41clearly

01:09:41clearly like

01:09:42the mind of

01:09:42serial killer

01:09:43is beyond

01:09:44it's like

01:09:44we don't know

01:09:44how

01:09:46how it came to be

01:09:47it's one in a million

01:09:48that like just

01:09:49wound up being one

01:09:50so smart

01:09:51that he completely

01:09:52kept it from us

01:09:53and that's what they do

01:09:55they serial killers

01:09:56don't let their loved

01:09:57ones see their

01:09:58other side

01:09:59but he really was

01:10:00just those two people

01:10:02and they never crossed

01:10:04like you know

01:10:05the two worlds

01:10:06never crossed

01:10:07when I sat with him

01:10:08alone

01:10:09we spoke of that

01:10:11he has time

01:10:12to go through

01:10:13all the discovery

01:10:14of his case

01:10:14in his cell

01:10:17so he sees photos

01:10:18of all of the

01:10:20eight women

01:10:22and he spends time

01:10:23on these eight women

01:10:25talking with them

01:10:28and I said to him

01:10:29what

01:10:29what do you say

01:10:32and he said

01:10:33a whole bunch

01:10:33of different things

01:10:34that was his answer

01:10:35all different things

01:10:37and then he says

01:10:38I look at

01:10:39the dump sites

01:10:41and I look at

01:10:42what was done

01:10:43and I try to

01:10:44connect the two

01:10:45and he can't do it

01:10:47his words

01:10:48he goes

01:10:48I can't do it

01:10:49I try

01:10:50it's two

01:10:51different worlds

01:10:53he's trying to

01:10:54connect emotion

01:10:55to what he's done

01:10:56and he can't

01:10:57he has emotion

01:10:58with you guys

01:11:00he doesn't have emotion

01:11:01on the other side

01:11:02of it

01:11:08tomorrow's a big day

01:11:09let's get some sleep

01:11:10alright

01:11:12alright

01:11:13thank you

01:11:137.15

01:11:16okay

01:11:18bright and early

01:11:33accused

01:11:33Gilgill Beach

01:11:34serial killer

01:11:34Rex Heuerman

01:11:35returns to Suffolk

01:11:36court for another

01:11:37conference

01:11:37Heuerman's attorney

01:11:38Michael Brown

01:11:39says he wants

01:11:40to break up the trial

01:11:41to avoid wrongly

01:11:42convicting him

01:11:42on all seven slayings

01:11:44each charge

01:11:45must fall

01:11:46or rise

01:11:47on its own

01:11:47prosecutors will file

01:11:49their motion

01:11:50for one

01:11:50and only

01:11:51one trial

01:12:00so Victoria

01:12:01yeah

01:12:02is this the first

01:12:03time you're seeing

01:12:04dad since

01:12:06he told you

01:12:07he was guilty

01:12:08yep

01:12:09the impact

01:12:10was already felt

01:12:11when Allison

01:12:12told me my dad

01:12:13wanted to confess

01:12:14to me

01:12:14and then the meeting

01:12:15being with him

01:12:16was another stage

01:12:17of impact

01:12:18the next chapter

01:12:19is people's reactions

01:12:23is the world

01:12:24going to be

01:12:25is the world

01:12:25going to be

01:12:25considered

01:12:26is society

01:12:26people are going

01:12:27to be considered

01:12:28enough to know

01:12:29yes I'm the door

01:12:30of a serial killer

01:12:32but that does not

01:12:33mean that I'm him

01:12:35even to the point

01:12:35you're going to see

01:12:36some of the victim's

01:12:37families today

01:12:38awesome

01:12:38same thing

01:12:39like knowing

01:12:39what you now know

01:12:41seeing the victim's

01:12:42families

01:12:43any different feelings

01:12:44I really don't know

01:12:48I have no idea

01:12:49how you'll feel

01:13:03so Victoria's here

01:13:04today and we know

01:13:06that Peacock said

01:13:07that you made a

01:13:08statement that you

01:13:09thought that your

01:13:09father might be

01:13:11guilty of the serial

01:13:12she's not going to

01:13:13respond to anything

01:13:13based on the publicly

01:13:14available evidence

01:13:15she's not going to

01:13:15respond to anything

01:13:16today

01:13:17well today's sort of

01:13:18D-day I mean the

01:13:19judge will decide

01:13:20possibly the date

01:13:21a decision on the

01:13:22date of the trial

01:13:23and also

01:13:25whether there will be

01:13:26seven murders tried

01:13:27or

01:13:27I don't think

01:13:28thank you

01:13:28I have something to say

01:13:29I promise

01:13:30the judge will decide

01:13:31we believe

01:13:33whether or not

01:13:34all seven murders

01:13:35will be tried

01:13:35in one case

01:13:36or if there will

01:13:37be separate tries

01:13:40I think given

01:13:41all of the success

01:13:42of the prosecution

01:13:43in terms of these

01:13:44pretrial attempts

01:13:45the defense is making

01:13:46they have fewer

01:13:47and fewer options

01:13:48and this evidence

01:13:48is overwhelming

01:13:49if I were the defense

01:13:51attorney I'd be

01:13:52encouraging my client

01:13:53to take a plea

01:13:53personally

01:14:09okay

01:14:11good morning everybody

01:14:12thanks for coming

01:14:13we are obviously here

01:14:14with Asa and Victoria

01:14:15to listen to today's

01:14:17proceedings

01:14:17the court

01:14:18primarily in the interest

01:14:19of judicial economy

01:14:20and given the fact

01:14:21that the evidence

01:14:22of the charge

01:14:24are inextricably

01:14:25interwoven

01:14:26is not going to sever

01:14:28so all seven

01:14:29of the victims

01:14:30are going to be

01:14:30tried together

01:14:30in one trial

01:14:31another nail

01:14:32in the coffin

01:14:32of the defense

01:14:33there's a lot

01:14:34of talk out there

01:14:35that Rexy Roman

01:14:36might consider

01:14:37pleading guilty

01:14:38to spare his family

01:14:39the trauma

01:14:40of a trial

01:14:41I think

01:14:42that's a decision

01:14:43that will be made

01:14:44by Mr. Heumann

01:14:45and his defense team

01:14:46and Mr. Taney's office

01:14:48thank you

01:14:49thank you

01:15:01Asa you okay

01:15:02yes I'm okay

01:15:12hold on

01:15:14this is him again

01:15:17an incarcerated

01:15:18individual

01:15:19at Suffolk County

01:15:20Correctional Facility

01:15:21this call

01:15:22is subject

01:15:23to recording

01:15:23and monitoring

01:15:26hello

01:15:27I want to call you back

01:15:30because I just

01:15:31want to say

01:15:34I know there's a lot

01:15:35to understand

01:15:38and you're not

01:15:39going to be able to

01:15:39get a lot

01:15:40once you know

01:15:41that neither

01:15:42of that

01:15:42don't let it

01:15:44flip you

01:15:45because I know

01:15:46you tend to do that

01:15:49and I know

01:15:50I can't answer

01:15:51some of the questions

01:15:52that

01:15:54you have right now

01:15:55because we're

01:15:56on a phone call

01:15:56yeah but you will

01:15:58in the future

01:16:00yes

01:16:01okay

01:16:03I am patient

01:16:04I am patient

01:16:05I can wait

01:16:09I always

01:16:09I always knew

01:16:10you didn't have

01:16:11as much patience

01:16:12as I do

01:16:14but perhaps

01:16:14maybe you will

01:16:15be forced

01:16:16to be patient

01:16:24yes

01:16:26my feelings

01:16:27are shifting

01:16:29the one thing

01:16:30is ending

01:16:30and now

01:16:32there's a new chapter

01:16:36in my hopes

01:16:37with Allison

01:16:38coming to visit you

01:16:39I'm really

01:16:40honestly hoping

01:16:41that you will know

01:16:42that I am

01:16:44okay

01:16:46I have my moments

01:16:51I can tell

01:16:53even your voice

01:17:00do you look at him

01:17:00different now

01:17:02I'm looking at him

01:17:05no differently

01:17:06than I ever

01:17:08saw him

01:17:11that hasn't changed

01:17:13in my view

01:17:14at all

01:17:17but there's a whole

01:17:18side of him

01:17:19you never knew

01:17:19no but that's a new

01:17:21side to get to know

01:17:26how do you think

01:17:26you're going to get

01:17:27to know that side

01:17:28well the only way

01:17:29to get to know

01:17:30that person

01:17:31is to go

01:17:32and visit him

01:17:33do you have

01:17:34any interest

01:17:35to get to know

01:17:35that person

01:17:38from a psychological

01:17:41standpoint

01:17:42yes

01:17:46well I also

01:17:47realized

01:17:48what I hung up for

01:17:49I didn't say

01:17:51goodnight

01:17:52you didn't

01:17:55okay

01:17:56well

01:17:58I would like

01:18:01to say goodnight

01:18:09all right

01:18:10back here

01:18:15goodnight

01:18:33it is the understanding

01:18:35of the district attorney's office

01:18:36that the defendant

01:18:36will plead guilty

01:18:37to seven counts

01:18:38in the indictment

01:18:39the defendant further agrees

01:18:41that although

01:18:42he has not been charged

01:18:43with this crime

01:18:43he will admit

01:18:45as part of his plea

01:18:46that he intentionally

01:18:47caused the death

01:18:47of Karen Vergata

01:18:48in 1996

01:18:50to summarize

01:18:51the foregoing sentence

01:18:52the defendant agrees

01:18:54to serve three

01:18:55consecutive life sentences

01:18:56without the possibility

01:18:57of parole

01:18:58regarding counts

01:18:59one through three

01:19:00followed by four

01:19:01consecutive sentences

01:19:02of 25 years

01:19:04imprisonment to life

01:19:05to run consecutive

01:19:06to one another

01:19:07do you understand

01:19:08that by pleading guilty

01:19:09to a charge

01:19:09that is the same

01:19:10as if you had gone

01:19:11to trial

01:19:11and found guilty

01:19:12of that charge

01:19:13yes your honor

01:19:14are you pleading guilty

01:19:15voluntarily

01:19:16and if you're only free will

01:19:17yes

01:19:19we have some breaking news

01:19:20for you

01:19:21a decades-long mystery

01:19:22has finally come

01:19:23to an end today

01:19:24Rex Huberman

01:19:25has pleaded guilty

01:19:44how did you not see

01:19:45what he was

01:19:47how did you not

01:19:47see what

01:19:48what he had done

01:19:49you were living with him

01:19:51sir

01:19:51the district attorney's office

01:19:53has thoroughly

01:19:53thoroughly investigated

01:19:55these crimes

01:19:55it has been proven

01:19:57you were living in the

01:19:58same house with him

01:19:59we've answered this

01:20:00a thousand times

01:20:02yes that's it

01:20:04there's no question

01:20:04thank you

01:20:19this defendant

01:20:20walked among us

01:20:22play acting

01:20:23as a normal suburban dad

01:20:25when in reality

01:20:26all along

01:20:27he was obsessively

01:20:28targeting innocent women

01:20:30for death

01:20:34and while we in law enforcement

01:20:36as well as our Suffolk County citizens

01:20:38mourn the loss of these victims

01:20:41we are also grateful to them

01:20:43and to their families

01:20:44because without them

01:20:45this defendant

01:20:46would have never been brought to justice

01:20:48and would still

01:20:50be walking amongst us

01:20:53to Maureen

01:20:54the promise I made to you

01:20:56so long ago

01:20:57was simple

01:20:59sorry

01:21:00I would never stop

01:21:02searching for justice for you

01:21:03through every year

01:21:05every setback

01:21:06every

01:21:09every unanswered question

01:21:11I carried you with me

01:21:13and I kept that promise

01:21:14and today

01:21:15it has been done

01:21:16justice has finally found

01:21:18its way to you

01:21:19your voice was never silenced

01:21:21your story never forgotten

01:21:22and your life

01:21:23will always mean more

01:21:25than the tragedy

01:21:25that took you

01:21:26this moment is not the end

01:21:28but a reminder

01:21:29that love endures

01:21:30truth prevails

01:21:32and hope never fades

01:21:33because even in the darkest moments

01:21:36justice will find its way

01:21:37thank you

01:21:53this whole basement

01:21:55looks very different

01:22:04it's been completely gutted

01:22:06and redone

01:22:08new floor

01:22:09new walls

01:22:10new moldings

01:22:12new doors

01:22:16what do you want

01:22:17people to know

01:22:18about why you moved back

01:22:21into the basement

01:22:22into the kill room

01:22:24into the room

01:22:25where these heinous things happen

01:22:27the brutal truth

01:22:29is

01:22:30that Rex Heuermann

01:22:31said he dismembered

01:22:32the bodies

01:22:33in this room

01:22:35that is the brutal truth

01:22:38okay

01:22:39now

01:22:39there's me

01:22:41I'm in this room

01:22:43and I'm here

01:22:45because I do feel

01:22:46spiritual

01:22:46I am trying

01:22:49to say spiritually

01:22:50in my own way

01:22:51that

01:22:53I am really sorry

01:22:57for what these victims

01:22:59went through

01:23:07every night

01:23:09that I go to bed

01:23:10and go to sleep

01:23:11I am haunted

01:23:13by dreams

01:23:18every night

01:23:21it will never

01:23:22go away

01:23:23it will follow me

01:23:25for the rest

01:23:26of my life

01:23:29there will never

01:23:30be any justice

01:23:32for anyone

01:23:33and there will never

01:23:34be any way

01:23:35to forget about this

01:23:44I have

01:23:45seen Rex

01:23:48about 12 times

01:23:49since he confessed

01:23:51to me

01:23:51that he actually

01:23:52had dismembered

01:23:53these bodies

01:23:54down here

01:23:56I want to get

01:23:57to know

01:23:58this other side

01:23:59of Rex

01:24:00I want to know

01:24:02why Rex killed

01:24:03these women

01:24:05what his triggers

01:24:07were

01:24:14I'm processing

01:24:15the information

01:24:16in a very different

01:24:17way

01:24:19because now

01:24:20I see

01:24:21the evil

01:24:22in him

01:24:46why did you pick her

01:24:47did she say please

01:24:49please

01:24:49like I have kids

01:24:50she was just

01:24:52very kind hearted

01:24:53she didn't deserve

01:24:54this

01:24:54nobody deserves

01:24:55this

01:24:55they were all

01:24:57beautiful women

01:24:58they were daughters

01:24:59sisters

01:25:00cousins

01:25:01nieces

01:25:02mothers

01:25:03Amber was

01:25:05just a beautiful

01:25:06beautiful

01:25:06loving

01:25:07human being

01:25:08and I

01:25:09miss her terribly

01:25:11Jess was somebody

01:25:12that I looked up to

01:25:13she was a force

01:25:15one of the strongest

01:25:16women that I know

01:25:17with a heart

01:25:18of gold

01:25:18she was

01:25:20and still is

01:25:21loved immeasurably

01:25:23she was

01:25:23oh

01:25:25oh

01:25:40she came

01:25:41she took

01:25:41me

01:25:41I

01:25:42I

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