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00:00Hello, and welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, the show that never complains, but always explains, with me, Richard
00:06Coles.
00:07And me, Emily Andrews. We've got an Easter holiday round-up for you, and we'll be chatting through the latest
00:13updates on the man formerly known as Prince Andrew.
00:16News also of the first royal to visit Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor in his new circumstances was his young brother, Edward.
00:24A royal showdown, Richard. Andrew versus Edward.
00:27Plus, as the King reportedly denies Prince Harry's wish to stay at Sandringham with his family this summer,
00:33he'll be asking what the latest move means for their hopes of reconciliation.
00:37Some people have said, well, you know, if the King doesn't fight Harry and Meghan and the children, are they
00:41going to turn up with TV cameras?
00:43If he were to come with his family to Sandringham, well, then the issue of security would be moot, wouldn't
00:47it?
00:47Because there would be security there anyway.
00:48And to mark five years since the death of Prince Philip, we'll be taking a look back at his life,
00:54legacy,
00:54and quizzing you on some facts about the late Queen's husband.
00:58Five years since Prince Philip died.
01:00It's amazing to think that he was still doing royal duties four years into his diagnoses.
01:06What an intrepid traveller, and what a voyage through life he had.
01:15Happy Easter to you too, Rev.
01:18Now, I don't need really to ask, but what did you get up to over Easter?
01:22Had a house full of people staying.
01:24I cooked a lovely old time.
01:26And you were down my way.
01:28I was there with my family, visiting my in-laws.
01:31So we had a lovely family time.
01:33My father-in-law did all the cooking.
01:34He's a whiz in the kitchen.
01:36So lovely.
01:37Long may it continue.
01:38Long may it continue.
01:39Of course, very busy time in the royal calendar too.
01:42And of course, Easter Day, traditionally, it's in George's Chapel.
01:45Windsor, good turnout there.
01:47Not a full side, but there isn't really a full side anymore.
01:51But I mean, everything that needed to happen, happened.
01:53And there's always commentary about the king affectionately poking one of his grandchildren.
01:58I thought this was very sweet.
01:59So actually, I thought Easter this year for the royal family was very important.
02:04We've had, you know, some quite dire headlines for most of 2026, the focus being obviously
02:10on Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
02:12And of course, he, Sarah Ferguson, and the two York princesses were there this year.
02:16Normally, they're a mainstay of Easter service.
02:19And we haven't had Catherine, William, and the three Wales children there for the last three
02:25years, actually, because of Catherine's cancer diagnosis.
02:27And then last year, they were at Amor Hall over the Easter holidays.
02:31So I think it was quite important that the prince and princesses of Wales and their children
02:35were there this year.
02:37They literally led members of the royal family down the hill from the top of the keep of
02:43Windsor Castle down to St George's.
02:45And the king and queen were driven in the state Bentley.
02:50So it was kind of, you know, William and Catherine and the children front and centre.
02:54Do we have a state Bentley?
02:55Yeah.
02:55I didn't know that.
02:56There's a state Bentley.
02:57I mean, I think there's many.
02:58I'm not a massive car person, so forgive me.
03:00But there's a Rolls.
03:02There's many Rolls Royces.
03:03There's a state Bentley.
03:05There's obviously Charles's car that drives on Curdham Way and recycled wine.
03:11He didn't use that for the Easter Sunday service.
03:13There was an estate version.
03:14There was a state Bentley estate.
03:16A Bentley estate.
03:17I mean, I'm sure, presumably, whatever.
03:19I think it means you have a flag on the front, doesn't it?
03:21It does mean if you're carrying the monarch, you have a flag on the front.
03:24People get very exercised about protocol, Richard.
03:27And actually, a lot of stuff isn't kind of written down.
03:30A lot of stuff is, it's kind of, it's just kind of understood.
03:34So the Prince and Princess of Wales, as the most senior royals, led all the members of the family down
03:39the hill.
03:40But they had to wait in the wind, because it was quite windy, outside St. George's Chapel for the King
03:45and Queen to arrive.
03:46So the King and Queen went in first as monarch and Queen consort.
03:51And rather sweetly, Charlotte and Louis were closest to the door.
03:56As the King got out of his car, he kind of clapped his hands as if to say, oh, this
03:59is so lovely.
04:00Seeing all my family all together here.
04:02And then he caught sight of Charlotte and Louis as he walked in and gave Louis, I think, a little
04:08pat on his shoulder or a little kind of...
04:10Oh, come on, controversy.
04:12Yeah.
04:13Was it Louis or was it Charlotte?
04:17Well, as you would expect from me, Richard, I spent a long time last night looking at all the videos.
04:24Frame by frame.
04:25From lots of different angles.
04:27Was it Charlotte?
04:28Was it Louis?
04:28Because some publications said Charlotte, some publications said Louis.
04:36My conclusion was that Charlotte was stood closest to the door, then Louis, then William.
04:40So my conclusion from all the angles was that he was doing this to Louis.
04:46Or, because I've seen Charles do this a lot.
04:50He sort of goes, do a little hand movement, almost like a point.
04:53He sort of points and smiles and says like a little quip that actually, were you to sort of replay
05:00it several times, probably wouldn't make sense.
05:01But something along the lines of, have you had your chocolate?
05:04Has the Easter Bunny come?
05:05Oh, oh, Louis.
05:06Hello, hello.
05:07With a little sort of point and a little...
05:08Affectionate.
05:09Yes.
05:09Very personal.
05:10Very personal.
05:11Is that why we all are light on it?
05:12Is that why it gets people attention?
05:14We like to see this affectionate grandfather, yeah?
05:18Absolutely.
05:18I think so.
05:19And it's very authentic.
05:20I don't think it's contrived or put upon.
05:23He actually really does like to see his grandchildren.
05:26It's different from this rather stiff and formal and awkward Charles of previous time of life, isn't it?
05:33He seems to be more relaxed.
05:34Absolutely.
05:35After the church service on Easter Sunday, all the members of the family then go and have a cup of
05:40tea with the dean afterwards.
05:41And so you see them kind of coming out of the deanery at Windsor.
05:45And then they walk up to, back up to Windsor Castle.
05:48They walk back up to the castle and then they all have lunch together.
05:52So it is genuinely a really nice family moment that perhaps, you know, is just repeating what you and I
05:58did on Easter Sunday as well.
06:00Except in probably better clothes.
06:01Roast lamb?
06:03I think probably roast lamb.
06:04I had a roast chicken.
06:06What did you have?
06:06Roast lamb, of course.
06:07Did you?
06:08Yeah.
06:08Well, yeah, we went a bit left field, but the chicken was delicious.
06:12It's interesting, isn't it?
06:13Because I suppose if you're grandfather, you see his head on the stamps and on the coins and on the
06:18news and on everything.
06:19I wonder how you reconcile that with the affectionate bloke who gives you a friendly old nudge on their way
06:25into church or something.
06:26I certainly think now that Charles' grandchildren are kind of in sort of a primary school or in obviously Charlotte
06:32and George, they're heading towards their teens.
06:36I think that they inevitably become a lot more interesting and a lot more, you can do a lot more
06:42with them.
06:42Certainly the baby stage of grandchildren.
06:44But Charles has always been a very sweet grandfather.
06:47I remember going on tour with him and the Queen when she was still the Duchess of Cornwall and I
06:52asked what her husband's, Prince Charles' as then was, favourite book was to read to his grandchildren.
07:00She said, Baba the Elephant.
07:02Oh, that's good to know.
07:04Which was so sweet, which was a really lovely book.
07:07And elephants are my favourite animal, so I was delighted by that.
07:10And she also told me that he was really good, Charles was really good, is really good at doing the
07:16voices from Harry Potter.
07:18So he used to enjoy, she told me that he read Harry Potter to her grandchildren, his step-grandchildren, who
07:26are now a little bit older, they're kind of secondary school.
07:28But with the Cambridges as they then were, it was Baba the Elephant.
07:32Big difference, is it, because you think Prince Charles grew up in a world where, you know, posh people like
07:36that, old people like that, would be living in the nursery and be brought down by a nanny to say
07:41goodnight or something like that.
07:43And now, of course, it's much more affectionate and hands-on.
07:44And you have William and Catherine and their children, it's like the Bowdoin catalogue, isn't it?
07:48They're all romping around, having a lovely time.
07:50Well, there was, I think when George was first born, there was some suggestion.
07:54I mean, it was reported in the press, so I can't say whether it was accurate or inaccurate, Richard.
07:58But there was a suggestion that William and Catherine were spending quite a lot of time with the Middleton grandparents
08:04and that Charles felt a little bit kind of pushed out.
08:08I mean, look, I think it's a perennial problem for grandparents everywhere, isn't it?
08:12When your children have children and you're not quite sure how to do or what to do.
08:17And certainly when the kids were very, very young, the Middletons were very hands-on and Carol was very, very
08:24good, I think, looking after toddlers and taking them to the soft play.
08:27I can't really imagine Charles taking his grandchildren to a soft play.
08:32But he did say to Catherine, please come and use the swimming pool at Buckingham Palace.
08:39And that's where all the kids have swimming lessons.
08:41That's good.
08:43Absent from the festivities, of course, Prince Philip, because he died.
08:46In fact, he died five years ago, the very day this pod goes out.
08:50So I've got a question for you.
08:51Do you know where he was born?
08:54I do.
08:56Well, do you?
08:57Oh, OK.
08:58Now you're making me really question.
09:01Can I just say you get extra five points if you know the name of the house where he was
09:05born?
09:05Oh, yes, I do.
09:06Well, find out after the break.
09:12Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals, where we're always explaining and never complaining.
09:17Now, we left you with a question it was.
09:19You seem to think you know the answer.
09:20Well, then I massively sort of second-guessed myself and thought, do I actually know the answer?
09:24Ask it again and then I'll reply and we'll see whether I'm right or not.
09:27As we mark the fifth anniversary of the death of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, where was he born?
09:33I think, Phil the Greek, I think he was born in Corfu at the house called Mon Repo.
09:41That's exactly right.
09:41Isn't that great?
09:42Because Mon Repo makes you think of a privet hedge and a semi-detached, doesn't it?
09:46In Hastings or Bexill-on-Sea.
09:48And also isn't that French, Mon Repo?
09:49Yeah, it's kind of, you know, my refs, isn't it?
09:52Yeah, it's not like Fristopoli.
09:53But can you, can you, can you, do you know where in Mon Repo he was born?
09:59I think, but also I might have checked because I've got it on my card as well.
10:04Don't admit that.
10:05Keep up.
10:06Keep up the facade.
10:07Suspend the disbelief.
10:08Suspend the disbelief.
10:10In the kitchen?
10:11It's on the kitchen table.
10:12Was it Princess Alice?
10:13Yeah.
10:14When was Princess Alice who gave home birth?
10:15Well, I suppose in those days, 1921, was it?
10:18It's 21 and I guess, I don't know, I don't know what midwifery was like in Corfu in 1921,
10:23but I imagine being born on a kitchen table was perhaps...
10:25Quite a good idea.
10:27Okay, well, so good old Princess Alice of Battenburg for giving birth to Prince Philip
10:31on the kitchen table at Mon Repo in 1921.
10:34Corfu.
10:35Corfu.
10:36Lovely island.
10:36I bet you've been.
10:37I have, as a matter of fact, yes.
10:40So, Richard.
10:41Yes.
10:41Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, the man formerly known as Prince Andrew,
10:44it's been almost two months since he's been arrested and there have been a couple of updates.
10:48The CPS have now, the Crown Prosecution Service, which are the prosecutors here in the UK,
10:54they're providing early investigative advice to the Metropolitan Police
11:00who are looking into the links between Andrew and Geoffrey Epstein, as well as Peter Mandelson.
11:05Footnote this, say that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and Peter Mandelson both deny any wrongdoing.
11:12It's important that we state that and remember it.
11:13Yes, absolutely.
11:15But the CPS have said, we can now confirm that we are providing early investigative advice
11:19to Thames Valley Police in relation to a 66-year-old man.
11:23That's Andrew.
11:24We remain ready to support any investigation if needed.
11:28So, the Met Police Commissioner has asked for everything that hasn't been released
11:32and everything to be unredacted.
11:34Here, it's called a mutual legal assistance request.
11:38Now, of course, US authorities previously sent a mutual legal assistance request to the Home Office
11:42coming this way from America to the UK, requesting Andrew's assistance and alleged witness.
11:48That was, how should we put this politely, Richard, very much kicked into the long grass.
11:53You can imagine the Home Office official going, oh, what do I do with this?
11:57It's one thing to sort of share information, but it's another thing to synchronise an investigation.
12:02Is that...?
12:03Yeah, I mean, there are a number of investigations ongoing at the moment.
12:07I think at the moment from the UK side, it encompasses something like six or seven police forces.
12:13Now, there are two strands.
12:16To try and simplify, there are two strands for this.
12:18There's the misconduct in a public office strand, which relates to Andrew's time as a UK trade ambassador.
12:24Other strands of the investigation is the victims of sexual trafficking and sexual abuse.
12:29Now, there are a number of UK police forces that are investigating various airfields around the country
12:35where Epstein is said to have flown girls into this country who were trafficked.
12:43This is very tricky, isn't it, for the royal family?
12:45Because this story is not going to go away.
12:47You know, now the authorities are investigating it here in the UK and in the US.
12:51And we don't know what's going to happen with Andrew in terms of the misconduct in a public office charge
12:57until the Crown Prosecution Service decide whether there's enough evidence to charge or not charge him.
13:03But it's a very, very high profile investigation, isn't it?
13:07And Thames Valley took the lead because they were the ones, the arresting authorities.
13:12And I guess for everybody concerned, Andrew, the royal family, Thames Valley, the CPS,
13:17they want that charging decision to be reached quickly.
13:21Because ordinarily, if it was you or I who'd been arrested, I wouldn't have expected, Rich,
13:26not that you ever would.
13:28That's just saying that I've been arrested.
13:32Then I wouldn't expect a charging decision for maybe two or three years.
13:37This is a very complex...
13:39Pardon?
13:40High profile.
13:40Everyone's watching it.
13:41Yeah, everyone's watching it.
13:42And so I guess there will be a lot of pressure to reach a decision quite quickly.
13:47All right.
13:47So there you are.
13:48You're Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and you've got all this going on in your life
13:51and it's so extremely stressful and difficult and there's all sorts of speculation about it.
13:55Then your younger brother turns up to say hello.
13:58The first royal to visit Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor in his new circumstances
14:02was his young brother Edward, the Duke of Edinburgh, who's been to see him at Sandringham.
14:09Yes.
14:09But allegedly, it's suggested by some, that there was...
14:13He had a complaint to make, which was, we always have this house at Sandringham when we're here.
14:17Could you please vacate it?
14:19Is that right?
14:20A royal showdown, Richard.
14:22Andrew versus Edward.
14:24Well, the report was that Andrew's still at Wood Farm.
14:28He hasn't yet moved to Marsh Farm.
14:30Is Marsh Farm ready yet?
14:31Marsh Farm is not ready yet.
14:32There's lots of fences going up and, you know, sky and, you know, super fast broadband and blah, blah, blah.
14:40So Andrew is still at Wood Farm and the current Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh, Edward and Sophie,
14:46like to stay at Wood Farm, which is Prince Philip's retirement home.
14:49They like to stay at Wood Farm over the Easter period.
14:52Of course, they can't stay there this year because older brother Andrew is there.
14:55So instead, they had to rent the garden house, which is on the Sandringham estate, just for the week, a
15:04cool four and a half grand.
15:05And some people were saying that Edward wanted to have a showdown with his older brother to say, get out
15:12of Wood Farm because we always stay here.
15:16So I think I think actually likely to me.
15:19Yeah.
15:20I mean, who knows what was actually said between the two men, but I've always felt that actually Prince Edward
15:24is quite supportive of his brother.
15:27It's that thing, isn't it?
15:28Whereby you've got that those pictures at the Easter service from Sunday.
15:33This is the royal family intergenerational.
15:35Aren't we a blended family?
15:36We have Peter Phillips with his future stepdaughter, Georgina, there.
15:40Hannah Sterling, his fiancee.
15:43They're going to get married in June.
15:44Her daughter was invited along with his daughters, Isla and Savannah.
15:48You know, James Wessex, the Earl of Essex.
15:50He's just turned 18.
15:51So I had this sort of lovely new royals picture, blended families, obviously the Wales children.
15:58And then, you know, no print, no, no Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor.
16:02There were pictures of him walking his dogs, looking very, very solitary and lonely.
16:07So you've got this narrative at the moment, whereby in public, the royals are very much, you know, separated and
16:15apart from Andrew and the and the rest of the York family.
16:19But actually, in private, Andrew and Edward have always got on really well.
16:25And I know that sources close to the palace have told me that Edward has been very worried about his
16:32brother.
16:33And I think I understand why Charles hasn't been to see Andrew, because, of course, Charles has been at Sandringham
16:41for some of the last month.
16:44But there were no pictures of the state Bentley being rolled up to Wood Farm to see him.
16:49Well, no, I guess not.
16:50I'm just, I could think with Edward, you would think after the massive fall from grace of the brother, then
16:57you might just think, OK, well, you can have that this time around.
17:00Oh, what, you can have Wood Farm?
17:02Yeah, it doesn't sound plausible to me.
17:03It sounds like this is, I'm not, I can't really see that argument happening.
17:06No, I can't see that Edward would sort of say, get out, because we want to come and spend, I
17:11mean, Sandringham has enough holiday properties, doesn't it?
17:14Well, also the house, I imagine, is big enough to keep, you know, everyone sort of a sufficient room.
17:19Yes, but Marsh Farm is not big enough for Andrew's security.
17:24So they've had to buy a secondhand static caravan to put in the garden so that poor old, so that
17:32the poor security guards, I think they're former Metropolitan Police bodyguards, can stay there.
17:39Because there's not enough room, apparently.
17:41Secondhand static.
17:41I know.
17:42It's got mould, it's got mould on it.
17:44Oh, no, walk from, like, Hunt's Stanton golf course or something.
17:47I don't know.
17:48Imagine that.
17:49I don't know.
17:50How bad a cop would you have to be to get that gig?
17:52I know.
17:53You've really kind of, you've taken your police pension and then you want to do anything.
17:57But let's not read into this anything untoward, because as we said, no, everyone has been, said, denies doing anything
18:03wrong.
18:05And we've had some questions about Andrew's dogs.
18:08Susan has written in and asks, who is looking after the late Queen's corgis?
18:11I thought it was supposed to be Sarah Ferguson and Andrew.
18:14But when Andrew has been seen in his new home and grounds, he's only had a Labrador with him.
18:20Where are the corgis?
18:21Well, thanks, Susan.
18:22Great question.
18:24So, actually, there's quite a lot to say about the late Queen's corgis.
18:28Because, of course, you and I, we're corgi lovers, aren't we?
18:31We love them.
18:32And the Queen's last corgi died and then she said she wasn't going to have any more.
18:39Because she was in her 90s, right?
18:40She was in her 90s and puppies take a lot of training.
18:43I think so.
18:44But then, in 2021, Andrew and Beatrice and Eugenie bought, I think it was Andrew, two new corgi puppies, Fergus
18:54and Sandy.
18:56Now, sadly, Fergus died of heart trouble quite early on as a pup.
19:01And then he, Andrew, bought another one, Mick, named after a lake, I think, up in Scotland.
19:07Scottish Island.
19:08Scottish Island.
19:09But I heard that, actually, some members of the family were not very happy that Andrew had done this.
19:16Because the Queen was in her mid-90s.
19:18She was about to have her 95th birthday.
19:20And she was not in the best of health.
19:23I remember at the palace, at the time, the palace repeatedly told me,
19:26Emily, episodic moments of immobility.
19:33Episodic moments of immobility.
19:35Immobility.
19:36I was like, okay, you mean she can't walk very far.
19:39That's basically in kind of, you know, layman's language, in Emily language.
19:42She couldn't walk through her.
19:43So she couldn't train these puppies.
19:45So some members of the family were a little bit annoyed with Andrew.
19:48But then what happened?
19:50She died in September 2022.
19:52And the Corgis were returned to Andrew, in effect.
19:55Andrew and Fergie, who were still living in Royal Lodge.
19:58And I heard, Richard, would you like a bit of gossip?
20:01Well, I always close my ears to gossip.
20:03But if you want to share it with me.
20:04Okay, I will.
20:05Just with you, a little bit of gossip, just for your ears only.
20:07I heard that Prince William wasn't very happy because when the Corgis got returned to Andrew and Sarah, Sarah then
20:16publicly started talking about the Corgis.
20:19She said that the late Queen talked to her and the Queen talked to her through the Corgis' woofing.
20:25And Prince William was not very happy that effectively Fergie was kind of, you know, making money off the late
20:32Queen's dogs and her memory.
20:34And then, of course, there was that crazy story last month about how, maybe from these comments that Fergie made,
20:41I think she also said it on Loose Women as well, about the Corgis, the Queen talking to her through
20:46the Corgis.
20:47TV executives in America came up with this amazing, bonkers, awful, insert an adjective here, idea of her doing a
20:56reality TV show
20:58where she would explore the possibility of cloning the late Queen's Corgis and then selling the offspring.
21:07Well, obviously, everybody's going to fall over themselves to commission that, isn't they?
21:11I mean, so members of the family were not very happy because it wasn't, she also said that she was
21:17left these Corgis in the late Queen's world.
21:19She wasn't.
21:20Well, I think also, being a Royal Corgi, it's not as if, you know, if no one's in, you just
21:25sit there and twiddle your paws.
21:27I mean, someone is always in, right?
21:29There are grooms, there are footmen, footwomen, whatever it might be.
21:33So presumably the sort of day-to-day care of the Corgis is not a pressing issue as it would
21:36be for other people.
21:37No, and now, actually, the Corgis are in Sandringham with Andrew.
21:41He's got five Yorkshire Terriers of his own and the two Corgis are now a pack.
21:47There have been some pictures of Andrew walking the dogs.
21:50But as you say, mainly, it is members of staff who walk the dogs.
21:54Seven dogs?
21:55Seven dogs.
21:56I had seven dogs for a while. It seems like being a zookeeper.
21:59I know, the hair and the dust.
22:02It was just a lot of work, yeah.
22:03And the food and the feeding.
22:05Also, imagine a shot of Prince Andrew walking a solitary way around the Sandringham Slate with seven dogs.
22:12It would be catnip, wouldn't it?
22:13Well, there have been photographers.
22:16Well, that's the other thing.
22:16Because partly, I think, maybe because of Mick and Sandy, but also because of the whole Andrew story,
22:22there are photographers camped outside his house night and day.
22:26And that's the problem for the royal family, isn't it?
22:28This story is never really going to go away as long as there's the ability to get pictures of Andrew
22:34walking the dogs.
22:34Very wonderful. So there's something in it that it is the last connection to her late majesty as her dog.
22:40So maybe that's something that has sentimental importance or even just a feeling of reputational enhancement, perhaps.
22:46I don't know.
22:46And if you want some more context and background on the whole Andrew, Mountbatten, Windsor affair,
22:51do go to Channel5.com to watch.
22:54There are a number of Andrew documentaries, including Five Days That Brought Down Prince Andrew
22:58and Prince Andrew, Where Did All the Money Go?
23:01So do watch those if you would like some more background.
23:05And don't forget, you can catch up with Richard and I, Catching Up with the Royals, every Thursday,
23:11wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube and on Saturdays on Five.
23:16And we've got another Prince Philip question for you over the break,
23:21because we are remembering and commemorating the late, great Prince Philip.
23:27Do you know, Richard, what his mother's occupation was?
23:32As a matter of fact, I do.
23:34Oh, well, I don't.
23:35But I'll give you the answer straight after this.
23:42Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals with me, Emily Andrews.
23:46And me, Richard Coles. Welcome back.
23:48Welcome back. Welcome back.
23:50Richard, now I think you know the answer to this.
23:52I do.
23:53Do you know what Prince Philip's mother did?
23:58I do know. I don't know your job exactly, because she was like, you know, a princess.
24:01But actually, she founded an order of nuns, and in her later years would wear a nun's habit
24:08and live as nunnish a life as she possibly could.
24:10Was she up on the third floor where all the servants were, or did she get one of the staterooms?
24:14Well, I don't know, because I've never been there, because you know the plant, don't you?
24:18I do know the plant, yeah.
24:18I imagine there is accommodation of different grades.
24:22There is accommodation of different grades.
24:25And certainly the nursery and the servants' quarters were always up on the third floor.
24:29Interesting.
24:29I mean, apocryphally, she was sort of put away somewhere.
24:31But she was the, you know, the prince, she was Prince Philip's mother.
24:35He was, and actually, she was well looked after.
24:38And actually, I think I was told that the depiction of her in the crown
24:42and some of the stories that were told in the crown about, he was very, very upset about that.
24:49Because his personal life was quite tragic, wasn't it?
24:52A man forged in the fire of personal tragedy, and an amazing man.
24:58Talking about personal tragedies and personal and familial relationships.
25:03And matters of royal accommodation.
25:05And matters of royal accommodation.
25:06Yeah, well, now look, there's some talk, isn't there, about Harry coming over.
25:11Well, Harry is definitely coming over, a sort of Invictus Games business,
25:16wanting to bring the missus and the kids.
25:19So apparently, the reports are that he's looking for an invitation to Sandringham,
25:23not just for him, but for his whole family.
25:25Yes, this was very interesting.
25:26So this was, last weekend, there was a report in one of the Sunday newspapers
25:32that he would love an invitation to Sandringham in the summer,
25:38and as would his wife and two children.
25:40And I thought this was interesting, because if we unpack this a little bit,
25:44because what happened was, there was this report in the Sunday Times,
25:46and then there was a bit of a sort of a kickback from the palace the next day,
25:51saying that if Prince Harry wants to arrange a meeting with his family,
25:57perhaps his supporters should do well,
26:00not to put it in the public domain, and should do it privately.
26:04So, you know, we've kind of seen this narrative for a couple of years, really.
26:07Either Prince Harry, or those close to Prince Harry, his team,
26:10let's call them Team Sussex,
26:12let it be known that he would like to see his family,
26:16or Prince Harry says, I'd love to make up with my family,
26:18or an enterprising journalist says to Team Sussex,
26:21would Harry like an invitation to Sandringham when he comes over to the UK in the summer?
26:24Yes, he would, if he got security.
26:27And then obviously it creates headlines,
26:28and then the palace kind of claps back,
26:30because they don't like it being put in the public domain,
26:33and they feel that it's a bit of an emotional gun to the king's head.
26:36Ordinarily, the result is that nothing happens.
26:40Harry has said before that he would like to do this or to do that,
26:43and then nothing has happened.
26:45He did see his father last September at Clarence House.
26:49I was told that that was arranged between Harry and his father,
26:55not by their teams, not by the courtiers.
26:58It was, and that the two men, Harry and the king,
27:02are in communication via the telephone.
27:05But as regular listeners and viewers of our show,
27:09Richard will know, because we've said before,
27:11the king doesn't have a mobile phone.
27:14But having said that, Harry does know the number of the Buckingham Palace switchboard.
27:17There's somebody not far from him who has.
27:19Exactly.
27:20There's always someone, always who has a mobile,
27:22or the Buckingham Palace switchboard can put whomever calls through to a mobile phone,
27:28or even a landline, wherever the king is.
27:31And I do think I can, I have some sympathy with the palace kicking back against Harry or his people,
27:40always sort of making these slightly emotional demands in public,
27:43because it does, because the ball's always then kicked back at the king, really, isn't it?
27:49And it always seems to me, it always seems to be like the king's fault if he doesn't see Harry.
27:54Like, you know, when Harry came over at the beginning of this year for the court case
27:58against the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday,
28:00the king made it clear that he wasn't going to see Harry,
28:02because it wasn't appropriate.
28:03He didn't want to be sort of seen to be taking sides,
28:06because Harry was here for his sort of war against the press.
28:10It's an interesting issue, isn't it?
28:11Because another complication is that one of the issues that's debated is Prince Harry's security, okay?
28:18And that's an ongoing debate.
28:20And so if he were to come with his family to Sandringham,
28:24well, then the issue of security would be moot, wouldn't it?
28:26Because there would be security there anyway.
28:28Absolutely.
28:28But that might not exactly be prejudicial,
28:30but that might complicate those ongoing discussions
28:33about what level of security Harry might expect if he's over in the UK.
28:38Well, Harry lost his court case about his judicial review
28:42about the removal of his taxpayer-funded security,
28:46and he's asked the Home Office for a review,
28:49and he basically is asking the Home Office
28:51if he can have security, armed protection while he's here in the UK.
28:55He has said that it's not safe to bring his wife and children here without that.
29:00The last time Archie and Lily came here was for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee.
29:05So in June 2022, Charles has only met Lily once and Archie, I think, maybe only twice.
29:15And of course, you know, Charles is going to America.
29:17I think people maybe don't really appreciate Charles is going to America
29:20at the end of this month for an official visit.
29:22But it's not like he can just hop on, you know, a plane down to Montecito
29:25to see his son and grandchildren.
29:28He's in America for official business.
29:29And when it finishes, he's going to make an official visit to Bermuda.
29:32So I personally, Richard, would love it if Harry did come over here
29:39with Meghan, with Archie and Lily, and they went to go to Sandringham.
29:44It's very private.
29:45They can get security.
29:47Charles can provide that.
29:49However, I do wonder whether there's a slight tricky issue for Charles,
29:54and that's his elder son, Prince William, because we know that William and Harry,
30:01they're just not speaking, they're not even trying to speak to each other.
30:05And I guess that is very much kind of Cold War, isn't it?
30:08It's like that sort of vignette at the beginning of Spare where Harry says,
30:13it's actually at Prince Philip's funeral where Charles says to the two boys,
30:16boys, you know, please don't make my last years miserable.
30:20Please, can we all try and get on?
30:22And, but there doesn't seem to be any sign of that with William.
30:25And also getting on in a context, which is unimaginably different
30:28from everybody else's, which is being a member of the royal family, right?
30:31I've got a quote here, it's a friend of Harry's, and it's quite, you know, pungent.
30:34If the king wants to see the kids, all he needs to do is invite them over,
30:38and it can happen, it's up to the king.
30:40Unless the royal and VIP executive committee do the right thing independently,
30:43the king can decide he requires an enhanced package of security
30:46so he can say as long as he wants, whenever he wants,
30:49and see his father with the children.
30:50Well, yes. I mean, you can see that there is perhaps some distance
30:53between the two positions.
30:54Well, it's interesting, isn't it?
30:55Because I think that Harry having lost that judicial review,
30:59he's now trying a different tack.
31:01You know, if the king wants to see him and his children,
31:03all he needs to do is to invite him.
31:06They have a point. I mean, logistically, that could happen, right?
31:08But then I think the palace are very worried, aren't they?
31:11The palace are very worried about trust and about what, I mean, could,
31:15I don't think this will happen, Richard,
31:17but some people have said, well, you know,
31:20if the king doesn't fight Harry and Meghan and the children,
31:22are they going to turn up with TV cameras?
31:24I know.
31:24Are they going to make the latest documentary of, like,
31:27Harry and his dad are reunited?
31:29Well, write a book about it or something.
31:30Write a book about it.
31:31I mean, I think there's some money coming in, isn't there,
31:32from Meghan appearing.
31:35Well, they've got this Australia trip coming up, haven't they?
31:37And part of that has been monetised.
31:38It's coming up later this month, they're going to Australia,
31:40and that is for business.
31:41They've got a couple of speaking engagements,
31:43and I think Meghan is thinking about launching her as ever business in Australia.
31:48But I've got to say, Richard, I mean, you know,
31:51when they moved to America in 2020,
31:53they had these massive mega deals with Netflix and Spotify.
31:58It was never confirmed how much money they were being paid for by Netflix.
32:01I think Variety, you know, in the US, did a real deep dive into this.
32:06I think in the end it was something like £60 million.
32:09I think Harry got in the region of maybe £30 or £40 million for his autobiography.
32:15But they are not commanding those sorts of figures anymore.
32:18And as we've said before, their lifestyle is really expensive.
32:21I mean, I do feel with this, it was going to be really interesting,
32:24this trip to Australia, because they, inevitably,
32:27it's going to be compared with that amazing trip that I was on in 2018,
32:32when they were there as full-time working royals,
32:35and everybody loved them, it'd be interesting to see
32:38what kind of interest is drummed up.
32:41I just, I do feel, I do feel like the shine,
32:45the wheels have slightly fallen off the Sussex bandwagon
32:48and the shine has gone.
32:49Am I being unfair?
32:50No, I don't think so.
32:51I think it's a perennial problem.
32:53And we see it with Sarah Ferguson too, don't we?
32:56Is that you are there because you're a royal.
32:59If you don't want to be a royal any longer,
33:00what's your reason to be there?
33:02Why would people be interested particularly?
33:04And people want you to talk about being a royal.
33:06Yeah.
33:06And so it's a law-adminishing return, surely.
33:08But the trouble is also,
33:09you end up having to perhaps say more and more for less and less.
33:13Yes.
33:13And that's not comfortable.
33:14And so then, going back to, you know,
33:16Harry and Charles' reconciliation this summer,
33:18will it happen, will it not?
33:19You can understand why, you know,
33:22whilst Charles, who's very kind of emotional and big-hearted
33:25and wants to see his son,
33:27is sort of thinking,
33:28well, I'd really like to see him and the grandchildren.
33:30But those people around him,
33:32like his press secretary and his private secretary,
33:35you can understand why the palace might fear
33:38that this is just giving them more royal access
33:40that they can sell later on.
33:41It's very hard, isn't it?
33:42Yeah.
33:42I can see how you would have to be very circumspect.
33:45Now, royals getting about,
33:47we are obviously remembering Prince Philip
33:49on the fifth anniversary of his death.
33:51In 1957, here's a question for you,
33:53it's a question for you too.
33:54In 1957, he became the first member of the royal family
33:57to do what, where?
34:00Where did he boldly go where no royal had ever gone before?
34:03In 1957, answer after the break.
34:06Coming up.
34:10Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
34:12Now, see if you want to catch up with the royals,
34:14it's so easy to do it.
34:15Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts from,
34:18you can get this podcast to YouTube.
34:21I don't know, you choose.
34:22But also, you can watch this on the television
34:25on a Saturday on 5.
34:26And, well, I mean, we've got other choices too,
34:28which are too bewildering for a man of my age.
34:30But anyway.
34:31Oh, come on, Richard.
34:32What do you say?
34:32I don't know.
34:33There's social media.
34:34Social media, you could do it on that as well.
34:36And we left you with a question,
34:37and it was where did Prince Philip boldly go
34:39where no royal had gone before in 1957?
34:42Do you know the answer to this?
34:44No.
34:44Well, I can tell you.
34:45Tell me.
34:45It's written down here.
34:47To Antarctica and the sub-Antarctic islands
34:50during his historic tour on the Royal Yacht Britannia,
34:52he visited several remote locations.
34:54The trip was part of a broader journey
34:55that involved a four-month world tour
34:58after opening the 56 Olympic Games in Melbourne.
35:01Five years since Prince Philip died.
35:03I know.
35:04I remember it well.
35:06Me too.
35:07What an intrepid traveller.
35:08What a voyage through life he had.
35:10Hugo Vickers, who's a very reliable,
35:12very personable commentator on Royal Fairs,
35:14revealed that Prince Philip actually had been dealing
35:17with pancreatic cancer for eight years before his death,
35:19which is no easy gig, I dare say.
35:21No.
35:22And actually, if you have pancreatic cancer,
35:24often the prognosis is quite short.
35:27And it's extremely painful.
35:28Extremely painful.
35:30But Hugo, who we both know,
35:32he's written a number of history books and biographies,
35:35and I remember he did one on Princess Alice,
35:37Philip's mother.
35:38It's amazing to think that he was still doing royal duties
35:41four years into his diagnosis.
35:43And there's that very famous picture of him
35:47outside Buckingham Palace.
35:48He's got a bowler hat on and he tips,
35:50he lifts his bowler hat with his back
35:52to kind of the photographers in the audience
35:55as if to say, that's it, I'm bowing out.
35:58But I mean...
35:58It's 99.
35:59It was amazing.
36:01Do you know what?
36:01It's funny because I remember someone saying
36:04that Charles had spoken to his father
36:06about what they were going to do for his 100th birthday.
36:09And it was going to be in June 2021.
36:14And he said, well, I don't want to live till I'm 100.
36:16I don't want to get there.
36:17So I'm not making any plans.
36:18And everyone's kind of thinking,
36:19well, you know, in royal world,
36:20you have to make plans quite a long time in advance.
36:22These things have to be planned.
36:23Get a telegram from your missus.
36:24He would have got a telegram from his missus.
36:27But actually what was quite nice,
36:28because of COVID,
36:29they spent a huge amount of time together
36:31that they wouldn't otherwise have done.
36:33He had sort of retired effectively
36:35to Wood Farm on the Sandringham Estate.
36:38But because of COVID,
36:39he came back to Windsor Castle in March 2020.
36:42Tony Johnston Burt,
36:44the master of the Queen,
36:45and now the King's household,
36:46termed it a Royal Navy officer himself
36:49and a fellow Royal Navy officer to Prince Philip.
36:51He termed it HMS Bubble
36:53to get the Queen and Prince Philip through COVID.
36:56So Philip came down from Wood Farm,
36:58stayed at Windsor Castle.
36:59There was only a really small number of people
37:01who were looking after them
37:03to prevent them catching COVID.
37:05Because obviously they were,
37:07this was before the vaccinations,
37:08they were in their 90s.
37:10So people used to go into quarantine for two weeks
37:13before moving into HMS Bubble
37:16to look after Philip and the Queen.
37:19And they actually had a really nice time together.
37:21They had a lovely time at Windsor.
37:22But I think that one line from Hugo's book is brilliant.
37:25He says that in their relationship,
37:28the Queen was always used to Prince Philip leaving before,
37:31or she never really knew where he was
37:33and he was kind of off, you know, doing things.
37:35He had an idea, he was off.
37:38And in death, as in life, he died.
37:43She often would pop in to see him in and out.
37:45He'd had a big heart operation.
37:47He'd come back from London to Windsor Castle
37:49in March 2021.
37:52And he died on the morning of the 9th of April
37:57before she could go in and say goodbye.
38:00Popped off again without saying goodbye.
38:02Popped off again without saying goodbye.
38:03In death, as in life.
38:04Yeah, in death, as in life.
38:06Do you know he's the longest serving consort
38:08in British history?
38:10It was pretty an amazing life, wasn't it?
38:11Because he was an alpha male
38:13having to take on a beta job
38:14in a world post-Second World War
38:17where being a beta male
38:19was still very much a non-thing.
38:22I know.
38:23The world he was born into,
38:25these kind of mad grandchildren,
38:27great-grandchildren of Queen Victoria
38:29and all these funny little princely ducal
38:31and royal houses in Europe and wherever.
38:35It's a complicated world.
38:37And then, you know, to live through to our own time
38:40and to the age of the internet and smartphones.
38:43Did he have a smartphone?
38:45I would like to think that he did.
38:47Probably did.
38:47He definitely was an early adopter of the iPad.
38:50Was he?
38:50Yes.
38:51Interesting.
38:52He was a real moderniser, Philip.
38:54I think it must have been quite difficult for him
38:56always metaphorically walking one step behind the Queen.
39:01Famously, he wasn't king
39:02because he couldn't be king with a queen regnant.
39:07He wasn't even king consort.
39:09That's not even a thing.
39:10He was Prince Philip.
39:12And he was made, you know, the Duke of Edinburgh.
39:16And actually, he was Prince Philip, I think,
39:18because he was Prince of Greece and Denmark.
39:20And Denmark, I know, yeah.
39:22Not because he had an English princely title.
39:25I mean, it's a tough kick on the face of that,
39:26if you were just thinking about it in terms of, like,
39:28where you were in the pecking order.
39:29But actually, it's an interesting place to be.
39:31And you think about another great prince consort,
39:33which is Prince Albert, of course.
39:35What an extraordinary job he did was married to Queen Victoria.
39:38Yeah.
39:39And maybe he took Albert as a bit of a kind of,
39:42as a sort of, you know, a lodestar.
39:44But I get the impression.
39:45I only met him a couple of times.
39:47And he hated journalists.
39:49So I was always quite scared of, like,
39:52talking to him or even smiling.
39:55I did smile at him, Richard.
39:56Did you smile back?
39:57Yes, he did.
39:59But probably because he didn't know who I was.
40:00Because if he'd known who I worked for,
40:01which newspaper I worked for,
40:02he probably would have ordered off with my head.
40:04Oh, well, I was the royal editor of The Sun.
40:06So I'm not sure that that was necessarily his favoured organ.
40:10I think he was definitely a telegraph reader.
40:12We should remember some of his greatest hits.
40:14I mean, he set up, you know, the Duke of Edinburgh scheme,
40:15which I, can I just say, I met him.
40:17So I got my gold Duke of Edinburgh award, Richard.
40:20Did you know?
40:20I did.
40:21Figures.
40:21I went to, of course, you know, Head Girl, blah, blah, blah, blah.
40:24I went to St James's Palace.
40:25There was Prince Philip.
40:27He was so brilliant.
40:28He came to every gold award ceremony, came over.
40:30He spoke to everybody there.
40:33I remember he came over and I said, hello.
40:35And he said, hello.
40:36And he said, well, he said, anything fun happen on your expedition?
40:40I said, well, yes, actually.
40:41We got chased by a herd of cows.
40:44He said, oh, he said, that must have been fun.
40:46Shame it wasn't bulls.
40:47I mean, he was just, well, I know.
40:51He just, he was, he just always was looking for the fun.
40:55But the Duke of Edinburgh scheme was brilliant.
40:56He was also the first UK president of the World Wildlife Fund
41:00and was its international president for 15 years.
41:02He was a real environmental crusader.
41:0622,000 official engagements.
41:08Amazing.
41:10630 solo overseas visits.
41:13Yeah.
41:14And he really did modernise the running of Buckingham Palace.
41:16The coronation was televised for the first time.
41:19He invited the TV cameras in to film the royal family for a year.
41:23Obviously, the Queen didn't, the late Queen didn't like that very much,
41:25but it was brilliant.
41:26Like your father-in-law as well, he was a barbecuer.
41:29He was a barbecuer.
41:30Loved to barbecue.
41:30Yeah.
41:31Yeah.
41:31Oh, well, on that bombshell.
41:33In this life, there is no abiding city.
41:36As the epistle to the Hebrews puts it, as you very well know, Emily,
41:38it's time for us to go.
41:39It's time for us to go, Richard.
41:41Don't forget, you can follow us on socials, on Instagram and Facebook.
41:45You can watch us every Thursday on YouTube.
41:47You can catch up with the pod on Thursday,
41:49wherever you get your podcasts from.
41:50And don't forget to watch us on five on a Saturday.
41:55I know Richard is always tuning in.
41:58Until then, have a great week.
41:59See you next Thursday.
42:00Actually, that sounds a bit Prince Philip, doesn't it?
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