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From classrooms to the skies. A conversation on breaking barriers, challenging stereotypes, and what it really takes for women to build careers in aerospace.
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00:07Good evening, I'm Amirul Aiman and you're watching It's About Youth.
00:11As Malaysia pushes to strengthen its aerospace and high-tech industries,
00:16there is one question that continues to surface.
00:19Who gets to be part of that future?
00:22Because while the sector is growing, women remain significantly underrepresented.
00:27So today, we're looking beyond the headlines at what's really happening on the ground
00:33and why the gap still exists and what it takes for young women not just to enter the industry
00:39but also to thrive in specifically aerospace.
00:43So joining me to unpack this discussion today is Technologist Umar Shangri-Aludas from AsiaJet.
00:49Thank you so much, Umar, for being here.
00:51Thank you for having me.
00:52Umar, to start us off, I want to understand your journey personally.
00:56What first drew you to aerospace field and at what point did you realise this was the path that you
01:02wanted to pursue
01:03even though it wasn't the most common choice for women?
01:07Such a beautiful question to start with, I would say Amirul.
01:11Definitely brings me to walk down my memory lane.
01:14I grew up in a village.
01:16So having said that, airports were never nearby to us.
01:18And my very first encounter with an airplane was when I heard sound from the sky and it wasn't thunderstorm.
01:25It was something else.
01:26And my mother said that, oh, it's an airplane.
01:28And I thought they are very little creatures.
01:31And my father said, oh no, they are very big.
01:33And I was wondering how big is the big?
01:35Because I do not know how to define it.
01:38And we have this culture whereby my father and my mother, both of them, they bring us out every weekend.
01:44It's like we stay outdoor.
01:46So there was once my parents brought us to Thunderbirds Air Show, which was happening in RMAF, Subang base actually.
01:55So when we went there and there was a moment where I saw the planes in such a near distance
02:01and they were flying in all different directions.
02:04And I was like so amazed with it.
02:07And after the air show completed, people were busy photographing with the pilots and there were boots.
02:13So I went to the boots and the engineers were there and they were explaining to me like what are
02:17the aircraft is
02:18and what are they doing and how do we maneuver them.
02:21And I was so excited as a child back then.
02:24So I took the pamphlet, came back to house and you know, we have this study table.
02:28And I just pasted it there.
02:30And I realized that it's a love at first sight.
02:34So coming back to your second question, you asked me like how do I stay even though it's a very
02:40less women being
02:42part of aerospace industry.
02:44And for me, it's it's more like a love.
02:47And I did not even think about all that.
02:50I did not even let myself to be caught between that.
02:53And I just worked hard.
02:55I found out what I have to do in order to become an aerospace engineer.
02:59I found out and back then, you know, we do not even have internet at our fingertips like how we
03:03have today.
03:04So I had to, I remember my uncle and auntie, they bought me a book where it was like almost
03:09200 ringgit back then,
03:10which was expensive for me, you know, back then.
03:13And I remember my auntie said, she said, okay, let's just get this book for her.
03:18You know, they just bought me that book.
03:21And, you know, going through the books and I think that was love at first sight that I had to
03:26the aircraft.
03:27And I went after that fearlessly.
03:32And here I am being here as an aerospace engineer.
03:35And I'm grateful for that.
03:36Thank you for sharing that such an interesting story.
03:38And going back like how women, it's very uncommon, you know,
03:42and that the idea of it being uncommon is uncommon is interesting because perception plays a huge role here.
03:50Now, when young women think about aerospace today, what are some of the perhaps biggest misconceptions that you see or
03:58that you notice?
03:59And where do you think these perceptions actually come from?
04:04Okay.
04:05For this, whenever I speak to anyone, like any young woman, what I encounter is that people have this perception
04:13that aerospace engineering industry,
04:16like aerospace industry in total, it's for pilots and aerospace engineers.
04:21Only these two people are within that industry.
04:23You know, I think that's the common misconception that we have today.
04:27In reality, no.
04:30Let's take an airline as an example.
04:32So for an airline to run successfully, we do not need only pilots or engineers to be there.
04:39We need an entire ecosystem to run that airline.
04:43For someone from another corner of the world to identify or to be familiar with that airline, we need such
04:51a great marketing people in the team.
04:54And for the news about it to be spread all over, we need a good programmers to program it to
05:02come up with the app to make it seamless journey for every single passenger of that airline.
05:08So that's how, so the entire ecosystem runs actually.
05:13So the very biggest misconception that I've seen so far is that only the aerospace industry belongs to pilots and
05:22aerospace engineers.
05:23But in reality, it's not the case.
05:25Okay.
05:25And if you were to ask me like, where does this idea comes from or stems from?
05:30And I believe it's from thought where this industry is only for straight A students.
05:38You know, for us being in Malaysia, we are very particular when it comes to A's, examinations, because we think
05:47that plays a huge role, which is indeed and undeniably, it plays a huge role.
05:52However, it does not only belong to those who get straight A's.
05:59And rightly so, you mentioned about the system itself, because from your experience, I want to know that, are there
06:05key barriers, especially for women to enter this industry or perhaps to progress in the aerospace industry?
06:12Why do you think these barriers continue to persist today? Is it the system itself?
06:19Amirul, the barriers are real. However, it's evolving. And for me, from my very personal experience, the biggest barrier is
06:32our own mindset actually.
06:33Our own mindset, being a woman in the industry, will I be accepted? How do I be treated? I'm someone
06:43who loves lipsticks. And I always questioned myself before, will people take me seriously when I present something with a
06:51bold lipstick?
06:52I had this question within me. But in reality, Amirul, actually, people don't bother about what you are when you
07:00are presenting. It's what you are presenting. It's something extremely huge.
07:07People, even my bosses, they do not expect us to be fully dressed in our uniform all the time. There
07:13are days that we are full with grease, there are days I'll be with my boots on, I'll just walk
07:19into the meeting room and present to my boss on the case of the airplane.
07:23So people don't really mind on how you are dressed. So for me, in my opinion, our mindset is the
07:32biggest barrier. I believe one has to be comfortable in their own skin without trying to fit in. Because we
07:41don't have to do something extra to fit in.
07:44And on the other hand, the male in the industry, they are not doing anything extra to make us to
07:51feel comfortable. Because in reality, there's nothing uncomfortable is actually happening. There's nothing uncomfortable. They do treat us like a
07:59fellow colleague, like a fellow person, like a fellow human. So I think it's our mindset. If we could break
08:08that off, we can definitely break the glass ceiling.
08:13Barriers are one thing on paper, but navigating them personally is another. How did you deal in case they have
08:22moments of doubt or resistance or perhaps even if you have felt that out of place, maybe for those who
08:29are watching now, maybe they want to know your story or maybe some tips when they feel doubts in themselves
08:35in terms of going to this industry, especially early on, while it's still largely a male-dominated environment.
08:42For me, as I mentioned, it's my love of life, actually, when it comes to aircraft. So it always drives
08:51me to read more about them.
08:54So when we have a problem, we will try to troubleshoot. And let's say the results of the troubleshoot is
09:00A, B or C, where we need to do further troubleshooting.
09:05And I'll go back and I'll discuss, oh, I'll read about it more. And it turns out to be, it
09:11could be like A, B, C, D, E, F. There could be like another six issues which was not narrowed
09:18down because they do not show the symptoms.
09:20So whereby for an issue, it could have six different items that may have caused the error to happen. So
09:28that's how. So I always read more about it and equip myself with more and more about them.
09:38What are the issues? What are the troubleshooting methods? And what can we do to make the aircraft better, safe
09:45and reliable when we are flying it?
09:47And most importantly, so being a newbie in the industry, we may not know, are we referring to the right
09:55tools?
09:55So what I used to do is that I always take my foot and text my captains because they are
10:00the first ones who tell us about the incident.
10:02So I just text my captains. Let's say I have like four captains who have flown the aircraft and I'll
10:07just text all four of them.
10:08I may get like three different answers from all four of them. Never once they have ghosted me. Never once
10:15they have blued ticked me.
10:16So I think it's me or it's a young woman who has to take the initiative and just be very
10:25confident about what you are asking.
10:27Doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong. Because the most important thing is that what are we getting out of
10:33that?
10:33What are the knowledge that we are earning from that? But it will be definitely helpful when we are dealing
10:38with another aircraft another day.
10:40Okay. So we've talked about your story on how you fell in love with the industry in the first place
10:44and how you have to deal, how you should deal with when you have faced challenges.
10:48We want to go back a bit to an earlier stage, which is education because it was before even careers
10:54begin, right?
10:55Yeah.
10:55How much do education or perhaps early exposure influence whether young women even consider aerospace as a viable option in
11:04today's education system?
11:06Okay. Talking about education, Amirul, I believe education system has already been there and the system is following the syllabus
11:17and the system is there. It's good.
11:20However, when it comes to the exposure, I think that's what we are lacking, where we are addressing it nowadays.
11:28However, it's still lacking in my opinion because it's not only about the subjects that we are studying. Back then
11:36when I wanted to apply for aerospace engineering, after my matriculation, I had this question like noises around me asking
11:44me,
11:44Oh, what are you going to become? Like, do you have a job scope in Malaysia? So these were the
11:50questions and concerns that I heard from people.
11:52And me being someone who loves it, but I do not know my end goal back then. So I used
11:59to answer to them that, oh yeah, I wanted to do my degree, my master's, PhD and become a lecturer
12:05because I do not know how do I convince them that I want this.
12:11But deep in, I know that I wanted to do something else. I wanted to do something more to the
12:16industry and I want to contribute more to the industry.
12:18So I think the exposure, because when we have a real figure today, a role model today who comes out
12:25and tells to people that, oh, this has been my path.
12:29I took A, B, C, D, E and this is how my Z is. And there could be another person
12:34and another person's journey might start at G, not from A itself.
12:39So it could be different parts that one could take in order to become who they are, in order to
12:46become the woman they are in the industry today.
12:49So this exposure is extremely important, but it drives young women or it drives another person to pursue this academic
12:59goals.
13:15So exposure is important and we also often talk about diversity as a number issue, you know, in terms of
13:24parliament, in terms of representation is very important.
13:26But as a deeper argument here, in your view, how does gender diversity actually strengthen aerospace in terms of innovation,
13:37decision making or even safety rather than just it being a about representation, just for the sake of representation?
13:44That's a very interesting question, because you clearly say that not only representation issue, but also on decision making.
13:53Maybe for this, I can bring you to a story from Boeing.
13:57So Boeing cockpit design back then, so the cockpit, airplanes cockpit design, so it was very male centric design.
14:06The distance, everything has been, the seat, the ergonomic, everything has been very male centric.
14:14If, let's say, if it's a representation issue, then when we have more female joining the industry as pilot, then
14:25it could be a fact whether we can choose to have female or not.
14:31You know, when it comes to representation, because we can still choose to remain the design or we can choose
14:36to alter the design.
14:38But with the growth of the industry, what Boeing did was, they wanted to make the cockpit design to be
14:45more comfortable for women, pilots as well.
14:49So what has started as representation research work, it turns out to be the seat and the ergonomic, everything has
14:59been modified.
15:00And it is something different from what we had like 40 years ago, 50 years ago.
15:05Today's design is not only focusing on representation, but also more on the pilot safety itself.
15:14So what initially started as for women, it's now not only focusing on women, it's for everyone.
15:21It's safe for everyone.
15:22The research shows that this alteration in the design, it's not only focusing on the gender, but also on the
15:32safety, which is not being compromised today.
15:37Umak, looking at Malaysia specifically in terms of our aerospace ecosystem today,
15:43where do you see real opportunities or gaps that still exist for young women and where, how do we assess
15:54this and how do we solve this problem?
15:57Okay.
15:57So if you were to ask me the opportunities in the industry, so maybe we can try to dissect from
16:04the word aerospace itself.
16:06Aerospace industry comprises of two.
16:08One is aviation, which is the air, and the other one will be astronautics on the space.
16:15So whatever that is flying within the, if let's say this is the earth, the earth's atmosphere, then it falls
16:23under the aviation.
16:24Whatever that goes beyond the earth's atmosphere, then it's in the space, like astronautics.
16:30So this is what the aerospace industry is.
16:33So having said that, we do have a blueprint, we do have several layers of policymakers of those who are
16:44driving the industry and those who are providing to the public as well from this industry.
16:53So we have several layers that we could see.
16:55Namely, it starts from the authority itself.
16:57So for aviation, we have Civil Aviation Authority of Malaysia and for space, we have MISA, Malaysian Space Agency.
17:06So Malaysian Space Agency is an agency which we could draw parallel to NASA because that's the weightage of the
17:13agency that we do have in Malaysia today.
17:16So there are several, it starts from these policymakers, then it comes to those who are the airliners for aviation
17:26and also the service providers who are the maintenance and repair overhaul and those who are coming up with their
17:34training academic and everything.
17:36So this is the entire ecosystem that circles and also it goes beyond and within the industry.
17:44So there are lots and lots of opportunities.
17:47So if you were unable to grasp most of the things that I've said, because that's how much opportunities we
17:55do have today actually.
17:57So if it sounds cloudy, just try to Google it up and we will see the several layers of it
18:03as well.
18:04And as for Malaysia, Malaysia's manufacturing industry, aerospace manufacturing industry, we do have like tiers, tier 1, tier 2, tier
18:123, tier 4.
18:13The first tier would be the finish good whereby like Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, so the finish good of the aircrafts.
18:19We do not have one in Malaysia.
18:21But when it comes to the second tier, that would be major service providers like Honeywell, we do have in
18:27Malaysia.
18:28And coming back to the third tier, fourth tier, we are the country where we produce and also we provide
18:38the services to the aircrafts all around the world actually.
18:43That's very interesting.
18:45I'm pretty sure that now people or maybe young women or even youth themselves who are thinking about joining aerospace,
18:54they will maybe search it up and they will watch this show.
18:56So maybe they want to know themselves that what kind of perhaps skill set or mindset that is needed for
19:04them, not just to enter the industry, but also to drive as well.
19:08Maybe you could perhaps share some of it since you have been in the field and you've been driving as
19:12well in the fields.
19:15For this, I think if you were to ask me like what are the skills, I would say as I
19:21mentioned earlier, the industry needs more and more experts.
19:28We need experts from all the fields actually and if one could hone a skill that should be find a
19:40passion that we have and you sharpen it, you be very good at it.
19:46You have to be extremely good at it and come and join us.
19:50I would definitely say that because we need so many people in today's world.
19:58You know, when I was doing my aerospace engineering back then, we use scientific calculators extensively.
20:04Because that's why, you know, for each and every calculation, we need the scientific calculator and no more than a
20:11decade being in the industry.
20:12I'm going to just take a guess.
20:14How many times would I have used the scientific calculator today?
20:17Just a rough guess, Amiru.
20:19What do you think?
20:21Five, ten times?
20:22Amiru, honestly, zero.
20:24Zero?
20:25None.
20:25None.
20:26You know, the calculator that I use today is the calculator we can find from the market.
20:30Like the market uncles used to use the big calculators with numbers.
20:33You know why?
20:34You know why?
20:35Because the aircrafts today are so smart.
20:39It has been pre-coded and the aircraft itself gives us the final value that we need.
20:45And who do you think would have programmed that?
20:49A coder.
20:50A coder.
20:51It's not a pilot who would have done that.
20:53It could be some programmer would have been coded that into the aircraft.
20:57So if you have interest in anything, you just, you'd be so good at it.
21:02You'd be extremely good at it and come and join us.
21:05And I want to end this on a more personal note.
21:08If you could speak directly to young women or youth who is interested in entering aerospace,
21:14but still unsure whether she belongs or not, what would you say to her?
21:19What would you want her to understand about herself and about this field?
21:22A lovely question, Amiru.
21:25I would ask the young woman, tell me what are your expectations and what are your fears?
21:35I would ask her to tell these two things to me.
21:39And I will address them to her.
21:43Because in my opinion, if one wants to be a part of the industry, it could be anyone.
21:52As I mentioned, I'm a strong supporter of STEAM actually.
21:55So I would always tell to my, whenever I go out for any speeches or sessions,
22:02I would say that you do not have to be an aerospace engineer in order for you to contribute to
22:07the aerospace industry.
22:09You could be anyone.
22:11Just be good at it.
22:13Sharpen your skills and come back.
22:16Uma, thank you so much for sharing us your stories and your insights.
22:20I'm pretty sure it's beneficial to everyone out there watching this.
22:22This is a conversation that reminds us sometimes the biggest barrier isn't capability.
22:28But whether someone feels like they are allowed to be in the room in the first place.
22:32But it's important, like Uma said, your mindset.
22:34Your mindset will determine you whether you will thrive and you can enter that industry or not.
22:40And I guess that's all the time that we have for tonight's It's About Youth.
22:43I'm Raiman.
22:46Good night.
22:54Good night.
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