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00:00to the Prime Minister to confirm that the Labour Party will support the
00:03legislation enabling the India Free Trade Agreement to come into force. In our
00:08discussions with the government they have made a number of commitments
00:10including speeding up the visa processing time for those workers in New
00:15Zealand seeking to change employer, in some cases getting that down to as quick
00:20as five days for processing those visas. They've also committed to support the
00:25modern slavery legislation and provide some resources, some legal resources,
00:29to those who the victims of potential migrant worker exploitation. They've
00:36made some further commitments which I've set out in our media statement. We still
00:41remain concerned about the government signing New Zealand up to potentially
00:45$20 billion worth of investment in India. We think that's an unrealistic target.
00:51That is not something that the Labour Party would have signed New Zealand up for but
00:55the current government have. So all of our exporters who seek to take advantage of
01:01the opportunities this trade agreement provides need to do their own due
01:04diligence. They need to understand the risks and particularly the risks that 15
01:09years down the track they could have some of that market access revoked by India.
01:13Those are ultimately commercial decisions that exporters will need to make and my
01:18message to them is make sure they do their own due diligence because the
01:22government have left them exposed to risk in the way they've negotiated this
01:26agreement.
01:32No, absolutely not. I think it's a very unrealistic target. I think it is almost impossible
01:38for New Zealand to ever meet that target and that is one of the things our
01:41exporters will need to be aware of. India have reserved the right to claw back the
01:46concessions they've granted New Zealand in the event that New Zealand businesses
01:49don't invest $20 billion US in India. New Zealand businesses won't do that and so
01:55they need to be aware that there is still a risk there.
01:57So why are you having to proceed on that basis?
02:00Ultimately businesses will be able to make those decisions for themselves. We've gone as
02:04far as we can go in the due diligence that we can do around that particular
02:07provision. We're not going to stop the agreement proceeding because of it but
02:12businesses need to be aware that that is a risk to them.
02:18Can we just be clear that the agreement is to promote the investment to that
02:22level. The judgment that will be made in 15 years time is whether we've done
02:26enough to promote that and so it's a grey area but exporters need to be clear
02:32that if this government or subsequent governments don't invest enough in the
02:36promotion then the Indians can claw back the concessions that this FTA offers.
02:41Have you seen the form of the deal?
02:45We've seen we were given a copy of the deal now there was still yes but there was
02:50still discussion ongoing so there may have been some changes to that but based
02:54on the information that we've been provided in good faith we've made our
02:58decisions based on that.
03:04So it's a combination of verbal reassurances and written reassurances so
03:13the Prime Minister has put in writing their commitment that anyone seeking to
03:16change employer under the new TEE visa will have that application processed
03:21within five working days and there have been verbal reassurances about the ongoing
03:26work that the government claim they're doing to speed up the process for others
03:30who are seeking to change employer. This is important to us because migrant
03:35workers who are locked into a particular employer are potentially more exposed to
03:39being you know treated poorly than those who can change employer and that is one
03:45of the risks of the accredited employer scheme for example so the
03:49reassurance from the government that they're going to try and speed up the
03:52processing of those change of conditions applications is important.
03:55But the new amendment changes would have been coming from people before legislation passes through this day
04:00so there's no way if the government was to go back on its work then there would be any
04:05commitment to that?
04:07Well there is a budget between now and then and the government have made some
04:11specific commitments which we set out some information on in our press statement but I'm
04:16not going to go announcing the government's budget for them but they've given us some commitments there.
04:29There generally has been bipartisanship around these deals unfortunately that
04:32hasn't been on display from the government until basically right now that I think
04:37they've treated this process cavalierly they they didn't engage with us when they
04:41were doing the negotiations they didn't engage with us constructively through the
04:45last four months we've had to sort of drag the information out of them that we're
04:50seeking the the most recent advice we got particularly around the legal advice we
04:54were able to review we only got on Monday so it has taken us some time to get the
04:59information out of them to be able to make an informed decision.
05:06There have been about five formal meetings there have been plenty of informal discussions but they
05:13have not provided the information we've been asking for so every time we've met with
05:16them we've asked them for information which they haven't provided.
05:18Are you suggesting that in all of the trade agreements that you both did during your time
05:22as Governor that when you were at the negotiating stage you were freely handing over to the opposition at the
05:29time?
05:30Because that seems to be what you're asking for but it doesn't feel like that is what you've got to
05:33do in your area.
05:34All circumstances are different. The current government knew that they did not have the support of their own cabinet to
05:40negotiate this deal last year
05:42and they chose not to engage with the opposition until the negotiators or had already concluded.
05:47That is that is not good faith and that is not bipartisanship.
05:50You've already made it clear that trade deals are for the most part quite important and that Labour was probably
05:56going to vote for it anyway and got to the point of them having had the negotiation.
06:01They then have had a number of meetings with you and a lot of that's in the course.
06:05Tom McLean says that part of the delay is because they may not be out of the country and there's
06:09nothing waiting for you to come back to talk to them.
06:13That is simply not true. They only provided the legal advice we had been asking for from the beginning on
06:21Monday this week.
06:22In all of my correspondence when the paper trail is released and we'll leave that up to the government to
06:27release that
06:27because it does contain information that's currently provided to us with an obligation of confidence
06:33but I'm happy for all of my correspondence to the Prime Minister to be released.
06:37It will show that whenever he's written to me or communicated with me we've responded almost immediately.
06:42What do you think of a great concern about the number of migrant companies? Do you follow the word?
06:47No and I want to be really clear about that. This was something that we tested as we should do
06:51in understanding what the agreement that they've signed us up to commits us to.
06:56Those entering under the TEE visa could enter New Zealand already under the skilled migration pathway.
07:04So it's unlikely to increase the overall level of migration from India to New Zealand.
07:10Do you think it's dog whistling?
07:12Winston Peters, I think it's more than dog whistling. I mean I think what New Zealand First have been doing
07:16is downright racist.
07:17If you look at what Shane Jones has been saying, it's utterly unacceptable.
07:21And bearing in mind that these are ministers in Christopher Luxon's government, he should do something about that.
07:25Did you say it was utterly unacceptable when Andrew Mitter said there was him in New Zealand?
07:30I wasn't, I can't even recall that.
07:33So I...
07:36Yeah, like I said I can't recall that.
07:40But I don't agree with that comment.
07:42What do you think is lacking in this deal?
07:44What's that?
07:45What do you think is lacking in this deal?
07:47It's more the, you know, the risks that we've identified.
07:51You know, businesses need to be aware that there are risks involved.
07:55On an agreement, does it mean though that a higher proportion of the migrants coming to New Zealand will be
08:02from India?
08:03Do you try to determine whether it's a rather high percentage of people in India?
08:06No, I don't think you could draw that conclusion at all.
08:09Because the people who will be able to apply for the TEE visa could already apply for a skilled migrant
08:14visa under our existing immigration settings.
08:17Okay, and in terms of drawbacks, what exactly are those risks of it for you in the deal?
08:26Yes.
08:27Yeah, yeah.
08:28So does it nullify the deal effectively?
08:30You guys have gone through this in the actual wording, so...
08:33Look, effectively, yes, it would nullify all the concessions that this FTA offers.
08:38So that's a high risk scenario.
08:40The difference between this agreement and previous ones is that over time, usually trade agreements reduce the risk for New
08:46Zealand exporters and increase the benefits.
08:49This one has the potential to do the opposite, but it is a judgement made on the level of promotion
08:55of the investment of the US$20 billion.
08:59So that's a judgement that I guess the Indians will make.
09:02We have to ensure that we've built up positive commercial partnerships with the Indians,
09:08and that they see the value in continuing with these concessions,
09:11because the alternative could be very, very detrimental to exporters.
09:15What time did the system make in a stated way?
09:19Or just ask them if they were in that reporting?
09:22No, they could take them away, the wording.
09:23And Vinushi has been through...
09:26We've been through the wording.
09:27I'll give it to a lawyer if you like.
09:28What time on the Monday?
09:30You said you've got the legal advice on Monday?
09:32This Monday?
09:33What time?
09:34Look, we had a meeting with officials.
09:37We had been requesting information about three months ago.
09:40That information dribbled out to us, which was rather frustrating.
09:45One of the court cabinet papers that we'd been asking for was only received on Monday.
09:49What time on Monday?
09:50We met at 2pm.
09:522pm.
09:53OK.
09:53Does that work?
10:01I think it would be irresponsible for us or our caucus to make a judgement
10:06if we didn't have as much information as we should have.
10:09We weren't involved in the negotiations, so we weren't privy to the reasons for decisions,
10:14and we didn't have access to that information when the deal was announced.
10:18We have been seeking that.
10:19Some of that information just came through on Monday.
10:21Was any of the delay due to not wanting to give the Government a win?
10:26No.
10:26Not at all.
10:28The remedial measures?
10:29Oh, do you want to?
10:30Yeah.
10:31The question is, can the government come back up for 15 years and then,
10:35or will they go up for three or four years, not needing it?
10:39There are two possibilities.
10:41So on the remedial measures relating to the investment, that happens at the 15-year assessments,
10:46the final one.
10:47There are other provisions which are bilateral, that do allow both parties to change measures.
10:54That is normal in terms of trade agreements, but it has to meet a specific standard, and
10:59if there's a dispute, that can go to the WTO.
11:02So there's not concern about those provisions, but certainly there is about reaching those
11:0615-year targets.
11:07I would also say that it doesn't appear that the Government have done due diligence
11:12in assessing what the scale of that investment activity needs to look like and what that
11:18would cost.
11:18And when you compare our big investments at present, over 90% of our investments are in
11:25seven countries.
11:26That's $15 billion.
11:27So we're talking about a one-off for $20 billion, which is quite a different scale.
11:48I still have those concerns, but we have been able to meet with officials from NZQA and
11:53talk about the quality assurance work that they've been doing.
11:55That was work that started under my time as Minister of Education, and good to see that
12:00continuing, so I want to acknowledge that that work has continued.
12:04My concern there is specifically around the potential for low-quality education providers
12:11to be offering what was previously referred to as the study work SETL pathway, which was
12:17primarily an immigration pathway rather than an educational one.
12:21Our view has been very clear right from the get-go.
12:25International education is about education.
12:27It's about providing people from around the world the opportunity to access worldwide
12:30world-class education in New Zealand.
12:32It is not primarily an immigration pathway.
12:35There can be.
12:35It can lead to immigration pathways from time to time, but locking that in is something that
12:40we would be concerned about.
12:41You mentioned the need for businesses to integrate.
12:44What other risks will that be done?
12:46Well, ultimately, if we get 15 years down the track and India starts to claw back access
12:51to the market, that creates some risk for businesses who, at that point, will be doing
12:55potentially quite large volumes of business in India.
12:58Do you understand where you will allow the changes on this?
13:01I've said that.
13:02I'll set that out closer to the election.
13:04What's the last part of the election?
13:06Because I'll set out in a more comprehensive way our views on the other parties in Parliament,
13:12where we have common ground and where we don't.
13:14And I'm not going to drip that out piecemeal based on events of the day.
13:17I am going to do that in a principled way and we'll do it closer to the election, as we
13:20did last time.
13:21When we did that last time, we set out who we can work with, areas where we can work with,
13:25areas where we disagree with them, and we'll do the same again.
13:34I think Winston Peters has been very clear that a vote for him, a vote for New Zealand
13:40first, is a vote to re-elect Christopher Luxon as Prime Minister.
13:42Would you be willing to put some of the party that referred to the FTA as the voting
13:46now?
13:47Would you be willing to put some of the party that referred to the FTA as the voting now?
13:48I have absolutely condemned that, and I've also been clear that that language is
13:52totally unacceptable, and there would be no place for that in any government that I lead.
13:56Any minister engaging in that type of racism and race-baiting would not be a minister in
14:01a government that I lead.
14:02Why is the President Morrison's role in this opposition to get forward to the government?
14:07Because in 2019 and in 2020, the change of government made a number of remarks that were
14:12very similar to this, about how immigrants could get on the plane time if they were happy
14:16with a range of marriage changes to visas.
14:18Jacinda Ardern and other ministers did not call that language out as a racist at the time.
14:24You are now, and in fact when they came from you guys from government nationally at the time,
14:28was calling for the language to be stronger.
14:30Now they're not calling it out, and you guys are.
14:32So what is it with you guys in government not being prepared to actually say what it is
14:37if you had to do it in your position?
14:38Look, I can speak for the nine months that I was Prime Minister, where I set very high standards
14:43for ministers, and where they didn't meet that, they weren't ministers anymore.
14:46So do you think that Jacinda Ardern was wrong to have not put those comments out at the time as
14:52racist?
14:53Is that what you're saying?
14:53I'm setting a very clear benchmark for what will happen under any government that I lead in.
15:02I subsequently did. And I absolutely condemned his post.
15:09Well, because at that time I don't think I'd seen the post itself.
15:12But no, it absolutely was.
15:14And I have subsequently been very clear that that post was unacceptable.
15:18Just on Te Pate Māori, it says that you bring a wealth tax to the coalition table.
15:22They also say in Labor that you've got the need to work with Te Pate Māori, and that's where the
15:29numbers are.
15:29What do you want?
15:30We won't be supporting a wealth tax.
15:32But they said they say they'll bring it to the coalition table.
15:36They can if they want to, but we won't be supporting it.
15:42We won't be supporting it.
15:45Full stop, end of story.
15:47Rather than call the government, you're ruling our government tax on the policy to go back to the poll if
15:51they demand it.
15:52Let me be very clear on this.
15:54Unlike Christopher Luxon, the Labor Party will not support policies that there is no public mandate for.
15:59So we're going to be?
16:01I don't think I'd ever come to that.
16:08If Shane Jones continues to engage in that kind of racist rhetoric, that's quite right.
16:12Do you think he will continue to engage in that sort of rhetoric?
16:17Those are questions for Christopher Luxon.
16:18He's the Prime Minister at the moment.
16:19He should really be doing something about it.
16:35It is not something we've considered.
16:37It is not something we will consider.
16:42Nicola Willis has borrowed more money.
16:53Nicola Willis has increased the government debt.
16:55She's increased the government deficit.
16:57Government spending has increased.
17:00All of the rhetoric and the reality are completely divorced when it comes to this government.
17:05Much like their relationships with one another, it would seem.
17:08What do you think that our full class came down here?
17:11It's not good news for New Zealand.
17:13You know, Nicola Willis said that she was going to fix all of this and she's made it all worse.
17:16We didn't have credit ratings downgrades during Labor's time in government.
17:20Have you apologised?
17:22Well, we had a fuel crisis during our time in government and a global pandemic and we managed
17:26to get our credit rating upgraded, not downgraded.
17:28Have you apologised?
17:33Look, Nicola Willis just continues to dig the hole for New Zealand deeper.
17:36How often are you getting briefings about the fuel situation?
17:39We're not getting very many formal briefings from the government.
17:42Are you going to start asking for that?
17:43Because the situation does not like it, so it's still very intense.
17:48Yeah, I mean, we'll certainly be monitoring the situation ourselves and where we can get
17:52access to officials to provide more advice that's useful.
17:55Our last meeting with them didn't really provide anything that wasn't already in the public domain.
17:59Have you said sorry to Nicola Willis for your comments on the House yesterday?
18:02Yes.
18:02Is it by text or...?
18:04Yeah, I sent her a text last night.
18:05And look, to be clear, until reflecting on it afterwards, I had no idea what she was upset about.
18:11I now do.
18:12And that was not what I had intended, and so I have apologised to her.
18:16Did she respond to you?
18:17Yes.
18:18Did she respond to you?
18:19Well, she accepted my apology.
18:21Was there ever a scenario when I was in the case of apology in the ATS?
18:26Well, you have to consider all of these things on a case-by-case basis.
18:30We had a responsibility to do due diligence around it, and we've done that.
18:33I think, can I, just on one of the risks on it, which was the implications of the withdrawal
18:41of the concessions if we don't meet the target of promoting that huge level and target of investment.
18:48I've been in touch with many of the industries.
18:51They've put an ad in the paper saying, on balance, they still support the FTA.
18:55That has been useful, because it is they who will bear most of the risk, should the Indians
19:00decide that we haven't met the promotional target.
19:12Look, that is one of the things that we've been probing with the government.
19:14It remains an area of ambiguity.
19:16And so, those are really questions for the government.
19:19And in terms of, the other question for them is how much resource are they going to put into
19:23meeting this promotional commitment?
19:25Those are questions for them.
19:26Talk about places under the field, and you said that it's going to go to export quality,
19:30and food, food, food, food, and tarot free, if they then add value to it in India and then
19:36re-export.
19:37And if that would be a way that would encourage companies here to attend?
19:43Look, one of the key areas where there are virtually no concessions is dairy.
19:47It's our single biggest export.
19:49I spoke directly with the dairy industry on balance.
19:52Although they don't receive, you know, huge gains here, they think over time they might
19:57that's one of the areas pointed out.
19:58If they were to export ingredients into India that are re-exported around the world, then
20:03that would go in tarot free.
20:05So there is a small window of opportunity.
20:07But for our single biggest export not to have concessions in a free trade agreement,
20:12that again, are quite unique.
20:18Well, look, I can't speak for, you know, how it would have engaged.
20:20It was always going to be a big challenge.
20:22I have to be honest about that.
20:23We've always accepted it.
20:24But what they have gained is an opportunity.
20:27It's a small opportunity.
20:29Hopefully we can build from that.
20:30Can I just say, look, we in government had built up relationships with India.
20:41We'd visited and we took an approach that partnerships was the way forward.
20:45The government committed to an FTA.
20:47Yes, they put a lot of resources in there.
20:49And the reality of President Trump and his intervention across the trade world and putting tariffs on,
20:57including India, I think assisted with the motivation to get this agreement forward.
21:02Yes, they should be congratulated for an agreement.
21:06We had a responsibility to ensure that it was a valuable agreement.
21:09Does your refusal to rule out New Zealand First make you a bit delusional?
21:13No.
21:14Who's saying when you've ever, ever, ever working with you and you're kind of sitting there
21:20going, maybe?
21:22Look, Winston Peters can weld himself to Christopher Luxon if he wants to.
21:24I've been clear that we will set out who we can and can't work with closer to the election.
21:28I've also said that at the last election I ruled out working with New Zealand First in this
21:33term, had we been forming the government, and that's unlikely to change.
21:36So why can't you say that?
21:39Because we're going to set it out closer to the election and we will cover all of the
21:41parties in Parliament.
21:42Would you say the difference of doing it that way?
21:46Because we can, you know, it means that we're not doing it based on events of the day,
21:50you know, day to day.
21:51We'll be setting it out in a principled way that gives people certainty around, you know,
21:54who we can and can't work with when they go to the polling booth and they make their decision
21:58on how to vote.
21:59Are you holding the hope that Winston Peters might change his mind?
22:02No.
22:03Just to be clear, will Labor make any concessions on tax to the likes of the Greens and Te Pāti
22:08Māori or even New Zealand First?
22:10We've been really clear on what our tax policy is.
22:12That is the policy that Labor will support in government.
22:14So you will not make any concessions on tax to the other parties?
22:18We've ruled out a wealth tax, we've ruled out land taxes, we've been very clear on those
22:23things.
22:23So you would design the Prime Minister rather than go through the wealth tax?
22:27The Labor Party will not support a tax policy that we have not campaigned on.
22:31Well, it won't come to that, because we've been very clear we won't support a policy we
22:36haven't campaigned on.
22:36If you do negotiations, they say this is the bottom line, this is the only way we can form
22:41a government, you will say no and you will stand out in front of them?
22:44I mean Christopher Luxon will still be Prime Minister.
22:46Do you think that you do run a risk though of Te Pāti Māori and the Greens saying that
22:51really progressive taxation by the wealth tax is a bottom line in those negotiations and
22:55how will you actually deal with those?
22:57None of those parties are saying that that is a bottom line for them as far as I'm aware.
23:04All right.
23:04Thanks everyone.
23:05Cheers.
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