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00:00Well, you could get saves and do it.
00:02That's right.
00:03And speaking of saves, I mean, I am generally, you know,
00:09it's a hard habit to break, sort of being a goalie apologist.
00:13When your kid is a goalie, you know, and he's climbing the ranks
00:18and playing at a pretty high level,
00:20you end up sort of understanding the goals a little bit more, I guess, right?
00:25Like the mistakes that a goalie makes.
00:28I got to put Lion in tomorrow.
00:30Do you?
00:31I think I do, yes.
00:32I just don't.
00:34I pushed back on you when you said Lucanin was jittery in game one
00:37and mentioned the breakaway saves, and you have that again last night.
00:41I mean, he made big saves before he got scored on.
00:44But those two goals were almost – nothing can be as bad as a 100-footer.
00:50Try odious.
00:51Okay.
00:51Try a new word.
00:52I mean, that is a stanky thing to have happen,
00:55but it's really just a lucky bounce for them and a bad break for you.
01:00It's not to me – it's not indicative of, like, you're my problem.
01:05The first goal is worse than that, I think.
01:09I mean, we spent a couple of days talking about Jeremy Swayman's left pad
01:16on Thompson's second, and, I mean, you watched the slow-mo on the first goal
01:21last night, like, why is he coming up?
01:23It wasn't the same conversation, but it was almost like, all right, well,
01:27on Sunday I'm really baffled by why is he coming up.
01:30Last night I guess I am too, but it's just – that was a technical –
01:34Yeah, and when we talked about this yesterday after I missed Monday,
01:38like, the supercomputer that is the goalie brain, right?
01:41It's like the Terminator, like, the data is just coming.
01:44It's like threat level, whatever, right?
01:46That's the job.
01:48You're not just watching the puck and trying to stop the puck.
01:50You're analyzing the entire situation.
01:52So, right, this guy's coming in on him.
01:55Samuelson's on his back.
01:56He doesn't exactly have going across the crease sealed off, Samuelson,
02:01but I feel like he might have even taken a penalty if Arvidsson had tried to go
02:06across Lukanen.
02:07He's got one hand on his stick on the backhand, and the puck is on edge.
02:16So, on one hand, I think, well, Lukanen probably isn't expecting shot here
02:22because one hand's on the stick, and to Arvidsson's credit, I think smartly,
02:27what he does is simultaneously, or at least almost simultaneously,
02:32I did watch this frame by frame, as he puts the other hand on the stick,
02:37he just shoots it right away.
02:39It's like one motion.
02:40There's no attempt to – and I just think the shot probably surprised him,
02:45Lukanen, because the puck is on edge.
02:47He's not going to just whack it at the net here.
02:50And so he wasn't ready to go down and take away the five hole.
02:54He got caught in between.
02:55Once he realized the shot was coming, he went down, and it got underneath him,
02:58and that's how that happens.
03:00I just think he just kind of blew it because the guy was not going to be able
03:06to do much with the puck.
03:07The fact that it's on edge cuts both ways.
03:10How willing to stick handle and try to make a move across the crease is the guy
03:13if the puck's on edge?
03:15Maybe you should have just been playing for, like, take this away.
03:18This is all he's got.
03:19And he didn't.
03:20And I think that was as big a mistake as missing the pop fly from center ice.
03:27And I just think the fact that he went back out there to start the third
03:30and got scored on right away.
03:33And then Lyon was not scored on.
03:35As much – and he didn't have to do a lot, but still –
03:38No, but there isn't a goal to talk about.
03:40No, I – my gut tells me he'll make the switch, and I want to say I support it.
03:48I would give Lyon in the hook here.
03:51And it doesn't have to be permanent, but I just think the team could be pretty shook up
03:56about both of those goals.
03:58And that's tough.
04:00You don't want to have that swing thought as a player at all.
04:04It's part of the reason why I think you like to get one guy.
04:07One guy's going well.
04:08This is our guy.
04:08We're going to ride him.
04:10Okay, great.
04:11And the guy makes saves, and you trust him, and you feel good, and then that happens.
04:15And I just think the whole thing gets pretty shaky.
04:19There are so many ways to look at it.
04:21I would support putting Lyon in for game three.
04:25I am not going to fight you on that.
04:27I don't have a position that's, like, completely entrenched on this
04:34because I think it starts – you know, like a lot of things,
04:37even though our business is talking about it and often we're just guessing at some of the internal stuff
04:42or almost always.
04:44But it starts with, I think, the personalities.
04:48It starts with Lyon's personality.
04:50Like how – it's happened to him, you know, often, not all the time, but throughout his career.
04:55I mean, this happens to goalies and coaches, you know, pull you and you've got to figure out what to
05:03do from there.
05:04But he had become – the way it has played out in the last month,
05:09where Lyon had a couple of off nights and then eventually an injury,
05:14and now Lucanen is playing them all, almost, you know, Ellis here and there too,
05:18but really only because of the schedule.
05:20Otherwise, Lucanen would have played them all.
05:23And once they were sewn up too.
05:25I mean, like, once they had – right.
05:27You know, they solidified –
05:28He doesn't play the game against Dallas.
05:30Right.
05:31But it went 100% well.
05:34I mean, even that – Tampa game's a while ago now, but the 8-7 game is even a win.
05:39And that's before Lyon falters, if that's the right way to put it, and then his injury.
05:43So Lucanen became a no-brainer for the playoffs.
05:48Like, there was no conversation about any other option.
05:51Lyon being hurt.
05:52But still, like, Lyon wasn't so clearly above – I mean, he never really was clearly above Lucanen.
05:58He was great.
05:59He won all the time, but it was really most – at the most, it was kind of a split.
06:04They were both excellent.
06:05Lyon was better statistically.
06:06Goals saved above expected.
06:07That kind of thing.
06:09But Lucanen was not far behind.
06:11Like, Lyon might have been third, and Lucanen was seventh or something.
06:14In the league.
06:15Yeah, in the whole league, most of the year.
06:16I don't know what it ended up at, but they were both on the screen.
06:20If you saw, like, a top ten in that sort of stat, they were both there.
06:24So I guess, like, talking about personalities and around that, I mean, what did Ruff think,
06:31or what was the conversation as they got to the playoffs?
06:35Like, okay, Lyon isn't even healthy yet.
06:39But we need you.
06:40Like, you did it.
06:40You first place.
06:42Yeah.
06:43And now I'm midway through game two.
06:47I mean, I know it's like, it's short.
06:50And am I going to bail on that?
06:52And I don't think I would want to.
06:55But it's that line that you remember me telling you about from Lindy when we were at a bar together
07:00a long time ago.
07:02Like, coaches have to do something.
07:03You've got to do something.
07:04Right.
07:04And he might think he has to do that.
07:07So I don't know.
07:08I mean, he might think it's the wrong move.
07:10I think taking him out at 4-0 was perfectly normal for hockey.
07:16Even leaving him in.
07:17And then, okay.
07:18Well, 4-0.
07:19Right.
07:19I mean, I've got Thompson in kind of a brawl.
07:22Yeah, I think maybe if that goal happens, you know, halfway through the third period, he doesn't get pulled.
07:26But it's 16 seconds.
07:27He just came out.
07:28You probably thought long and hard about pulling him out.
07:31As much time as you could spend thinking about it.
07:33Because you'd want to get line time to get ready and whatever.
07:37But whenever you decide to leave him in, you had already thought about taking him out, surely.
07:41And then the period has barely started and it's another goal.
07:44Like, okay, that's it.
07:45You're out.
07:46That does not have to mean he's done.
07:49And I might be overreacting.
07:51I don't know.
07:51But Lindy last night certainly – and that's Lindy.
07:55That's gamesmanship.
07:56It's the playoffs.
07:57He might think there's the slightest advantage to playing games with Boston.
08:03Today, again, he mentioned a couple of times how well the rotation worked all year and that kind of thing.
08:09So, he's planting seeds that, again, might be tactical on his part.
08:14It doesn't have to mean he's going to make a change.
08:17But he certainly is not being shy about giving the impression that he's thinking about it.
08:22Yeah, and I mean, I think – and you're not saying different just yet.
08:26I think the idea that you're sort of in Boston's head by not announcing is ridiculous
08:33because I don't think that would mean anything.
08:35But – because, you know, the Sabres, as long as it's been since they've been in the playoffs,
08:39when was the last time we had a conversation in Sabres history about who the goalie would be?
08:44The 80s?
08:45I mean, Hasek had his drama the one year and it was Shields, but otherwise –
08:49Yeah.
08:50Or even the Rolison thing.
08:52But just like – it was Ryan Miller.
08:54It was Dominic Hasek.
08:55It may be the 80s when it was more of a time where you went back and forth
08:58and it's so long ago, it's irrelevant.
09:00We have not had this.
09:02The Sabres have played against teams like Philadelphia the last time they were in the playoffs
09:06where, you know, you had a conversation about goaltending.
09:09It's really not an important point.
09:11I think taking him out when he did is completely a reasonable move.
09:16Leaving him in is defensible going into the third.
09:19At 4-0, you know, I'm thinking if I'm the coach of the team, I'm thinking are people wondering if
09:24I'm here if I don't make this move?
09:27Like, am I alive for this?
09:29So you do that.
09:30And I would take Lindy's words on this today or last night to mean, like, I don't know yet.
09:37You know, and maybe he doesn't.
09:39It's okay.
09:39Yeah, I'm not telling you I'm sure he's made a decision, but I'm sure he's thinking about it.
09:45He certainly wants to give everyone the impression he's thinking about it.
09:49I don't think it's valueless.
09:51I mean, are the Bruins going to lose sleep over it?
09:53No.
09:54But, listen, you have meetings with your shooters and your power play guys and everything about a goalie's tendencies and
10:01where you want to shoot on a guy.
10:03And they came in prepared to play Lukanen.
10:06If you can waste an hour of their lives between now and 7 o'clock tomorrow, go for it.
10:11Because they maybe will, you know, the Lions is a different goalie.
10:14He's got different strengths and weaknesses.
10:16And, you know, sure, it's try to get the puck past him in traffic and all the usual stuff.
10:20But in a loan on a guy, you know, what does he give away?
10:24Where can I exploit him?
10:25You know, that kind of stuff.
10:27The Bruins will spend time on that, I think, because of this uncertainty.
10:31So that doesn't have zero value.
10:34But, you know, to me it's worth a coach if you think it's embarrassing to do it, so be it.
10:38I think it's worth floating it out there and leaving it uncertain.
10:42I would think there would also be a psychological benefit to a team when you turned the script around so
10:53dramatically
10:55that one game after that incredible comeback and everything that was said about it on Sunday,
11:02you're too, oh, we've pulled their goalie now?
11:05Yeah, we've made them change.
11:06I don't know.
11:07I mean, I think there's so many different angles to that.
11:11Yeah, and whether Pavel Zaka loses an hour of his life trying to figure this out,
11:17I'm going to lose two days of mine because I don't think there's really an easy answer to this.
11:21You've got a goalie that helped you get to the Atlantic Division title incredibly,
11:25and then he had a couple of misses, and all right, are we done?
11:28And I don't think, if I need to say it, Lyon is fine.
11:34Like, he's not somebody – it would be different if Ellis.
11:37Mm-hmm.
11:37Like, I'm not putting Ellis in Game 3 in Boston.
11:41It's Lukanen or Dye for me.
11:45Lyon, you know, okay.
11:46I'm not against it.
11:49But I think you just sort of choose – not to say you, but I think for myself or anybody
11:53else,
11:54you sort of choose, like, all right, what matters the most to you?
11:57And it matters a lot to me that they got here with Lukanen, and they have two days off after
12:04tomorrow.
12:05Yeah.
12:05But, you know, tomorrow's not quite a must-win, literally, but it's important as all these games are.
12:11Well, what it –
12:11You can't be wrong.
12:12What it will do – here's one of the reasons I get – and look, you can – you can
12:17twist yourself up in any kind of knot you want.
12:21You know, trying to figure out why to do this, the timing, this game, that game.
12:27I think if you go to Lyon here and you win, then maybe you keep going with him, but you've
12:34got the two days off,
12:35and you've got the lead back in the series.
12:38If you stay with Lukanen and it goes badly, now you have to go to Lyon for Game 4 and
12:48you're down 2-1.
12:48And, like, now it's – you're facing the specter of coming home down 3-1, and now you've made the
12:54goalie switch.
12:55I think at least if you try Lyon tomorrow night and it doesn't go well, I pivot back to Lukanen
13:02for Game 4.
13:02The pressure is still the same, but at least I'm not saving Lyon until everyone's feeling like,
13:09oh, God, we can't go down 3-1.
13:12We can't go down 3-1.
13:13I just – I think it's a looser re-entry point because, to me, I'm not done with Lukanen.
13:19The idea is to stabilize him if he needs it and make sure this series doesn't get away from me
13:27before I do something.
13:28I think it's a looser re-entry point because, like, I'm not going to do something.
13:28I think it's a looser re-entry point.
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